Absentee Vote Holds Key to Victory … EVERY Voter Counts!

It could be weeks before we REALLY know FOR SURE which party forms government in BC.  With all the recounts and absentee vote results still to come …. the FINAL seat division between the Liberals and NDP are too close to call

But regardless of the final tallies for the Liberals and NDP, the only ones who could and should be celebrating are the Greens.

The Liberals, so far, are holding 43 seats …down four and the NDP 41 …up six.  A majority government would require a minimum 44 seats in the 87-seat legislature … and don’t forget, one seat is compromised once the Speaker is elected.

With three seats, Green Leader Andrew Weaver could literally be a King or Queen maker … deciding which of the other two parties to prop up under a minority government situation.  And what makes that all the more interesting is that the Greens will have achieved that ultimate power with only about 17% of the actual vote!

Just a few weeks ago, we on here were among the first to sound the alarm bells that the way the Greens and Andrew Weaver were pulling in new support, they could be the big spoilers in the May 9 election, especially for the NDP.  You can review what we all said here: http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/this-time-a-green-vote-really-is-a-liberal-vote/

Indeed, those Green votes could be the ones that will keep the Liberals in power …in a minority government.

Remember, although the NDP/Greens may seem closer ideologically on many issues … Weaver has publicly noted he has in the past been able to have civilized conversations with Liberal leader Christy Clark , he found NDP leader John Horgan shouts a lot.   That temper could do Horgan/NDP in!

And remember BC political history: the “BC Liberals” are already coalition of Socreds, Conservatives and even true Liberals … very ideologically malleable … so adding a few Green ideas to stay in power would not be too difficult.

No doubt there will be much pacing back and forth, strategizing,  possibly even discussions/negotiating …in public and in private … over the next few days.

And what I find particularly intriguing will be the impact of the advance/absentee vote on this election’s results.

In my May 1 blog, ( http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/election-17-signs-of-higher-interest-and-higher-turnout/ )  I celebrated the high ratings of those who tuned in the TV Leaders’ Debate and the high turnout in the first of the advance polls.

Here’s what I wrote about the advance poll turnout last week:  “I think it’s great news and shows that maybe, just maybe, people generally, including those 25 to 40, are starting to realize politics and parties and promises and policies ….. and  THEIR participation ….. do affect their lives.”


The final advance vote figures showed a turnout of 614,389  …. 20% of all eligible voters … and well ahead of the 380,741 who voted in advance in 2013.

But who would have guessed that those who voted early or using absentee ballots could actually determine the final outcome of which party and/or coalition will hold power and run the province until the next election!

Those of us who are politically interested and/or truly appreciate the importance of democracy have often appealed to those who rarely or never vote to PLEASE do so!

Many, though, think their single vote won’t really matter.

THIS BC election has proved them WRONG in many ridings!!!!

In several communities where the eligible voters total in the several thousands … the winner was … or will be …  decided by very, very few votes.  Imagine the possibilities if another few hundred had shown up in each those: possibly enough to swing the ENTIRE election result!

That was fun.

And we will likely not have to wait four years to do it again.

Harv Oberfeld

(Remember: You can get First Alerts of all new topics on this BC blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter.  No spam … just alerts to new topics posted. )

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56 Responses to Absentee Vote Holds Key to Victory … EVERY Voter Counts!

  1. r says:

    It may be fun but there are big decisions that are affected by the results.
    9 vote spread in Comox proves that vote splitting is a top consideration in voting.
    Hard to complain if one doesnt vote.


  2. Gene The Bean says:

    I never have and never will be morally bankrupt but I assume people that are (Liberal voters) are like narcissists – they are the last to know.

    I guess I am just accustomed to hanging out with a better class of people.

  3. skidder says:

    It was difficult to make an X while holding my nose but I did it.Voted liberal. Why is it, we wait 2 weeks for an enormous number of votes to be counted, especially since the total could radically change the outcome….and Harvey, do you think the 801 group will be active again? I can’t imagine Clark being allowed to lead the libs in the next election in about 18 months.

    (Response: 801 … no. New election within two years …yes. h.o)

  4. E. Johnson says:

    Correct me if I am wrong, Harvey, but I believe
    approximately 52% of eligible voters cast ballots, which is even less than the previous election. It should concern us all that close to half of those eligible to vote don’t consider it worth their time to try to make a difference.

    (Response: I hear it was about 56% …not great. Better clarity of public opinion if 70% had voted. h.o)

  5. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I’m high on the possibilities of a little “Horver” get-together on some key issues.

    They could say, “We’re not going to hold hands or sign any papers… but we’ll agree to sit at the same table, to get some things passed.”

    Banning big money is something they both agree on, passionately. Get that out of the way and the BC Liberals would be forever separated from their well-heeled “investors.” That one move would do a great service to democracy in BC.

    They’d have to get at it right away, though, or the BC Libs would see it coming and start refilling their tanks for a snap election.

    Next up: Site C and banning the grizzly bear hunt.

    Anything else is candy. I’m already quite pleased that Anton and Fassbender got the boot — and that Steve Darling struck out in his first at-bat.

    Even Jas Johal barely got to first base.

  6. Brian says:

    The Green leader would lose a lot of people that voted for him if he goes to the liberals. People that voted Green voted for change. Also last election the absentee vote in Comox went to the NDP. Some people think the military absentee vote will go to the Conservatives this time.

    (Response: But think about it from a Green strategic long term perspective. What they really want to become as they grow is to be seen as the alternative as Official Opposition to the Liberals. They don’t accomplish that by propping up an NDP government and giving the NDP a chance to show the NDP can govern well. Far better for them to prop up a Liberal government… get some “progressive” policies adopted and gain lots of publicity and news coverage for Green accomplishments, while pushing the NDP to the side. h.o)

  7. SB says:

    This woll be interesting the Green party likely will not support Liberals the gulf islands and Cowichan valley mlas would get pitchforked so Weaver is in a tough place .
    The pledge to get big money out of politics is a common cause for a green ndp agreement and that would level out the future playing field for all .
    What is likely is another election long before its due date.

    (Response: I agree… whichever party forms government …will not serve full four years. h.o)

  8. Gary T says:

    Response #6. i think you may be right H O. It is the people that voted for change, and split the vote badly by voting Green that will be the losers. If the Greens continually prop up the Liberals , or even worse, accept positions of influence from them for propping them up, then hopefully in the next election, they won’t stand a chance, and we will get the change we wanted so badly this time. For me, and a lot of others, this election result was extremely disappointing.

  9. Brian says:

    If the Greens side with the liberals I think they lose any chance in making gains in metro Vancouver next election. If they side with the NDP I think they will have a better case next election. Just my opinion. Also the other two Green MLA’s seem to lean more toward the NDP. Didn’t one of them run for the NDP previously?

  10. Heliworld says:

    Well get ready to hold your nose and vote again in the next 12 to 18 months.

    If the Green Party supports the Liberals on two hot points, the Enbridge Pipeline and Site C, then their base will be gone.

    It they decide to support the NDP on these two issues, then Photo Air Clark will call an election and then will hopefully join the ranks of Anton and Fassbender.

    It’s BC and anything could happen. Last minority government 60 years ago and the first Green Party with any power in Canada ever.

    Should be a fun ride, Not!

    (Response: Of course, in a two-party minority government, negotiations require BOTH sides to compromise. I would not be surprised to see the Greens allow Site C to proceed in return for banning corporate/union donations, increased spending on education and health care and a commitment to again at least study proportional representation. h.o)


    …What an outcome!

    In the next couple of weeks we may finally see which party really won and which one lost.

    Right now those in Opposition should carefully reflect what will happen should the weight of government fall on their shoulders, either as government or as king/queen-maker.

    Once in government the party in power becomes sullied right off the bat. Decisions leave foot-prints and fingerprints, all over the damn place.

    That’s not a bad thing. It’s just the way it is and ever will be.

    From Virgin Mary to political gutter snipe is a quick and smooth road.

    If the liberals are consigned to the Opposition benches it will be time for them to sling mud at the NDP or NDP/Greens.

    What a bun toss that will be!

    But that’s all rank speculation.

    The most alarming part of this election is that only slightly more than half of eligible voters showed up at the polling stations.

    What that means is that a huge eligible voting cohort said: “None of the above…”

    Pity, I guess.

    (Response: I sure wish more people would vote … but I would be against forcing people to … or pay a fine. It would not serve democracy to have people who haven’t a clue about how government works or care who/what any of the leaders/parties stand for to mark ballots. And forcing them to will not increase their interest or attention. The solution would be to start teaching kids in high school more about the importance of voting and the power they can wield. h.o.)

  12. Gene The Bean says:

    Steve Darling lost and Jas Johal barely won (only because of his ethnicity in that riding).

    Wonder if it is because people are finally figuring out that the media is now just a corporate shill to the highest bidder, which is usually government.

    Question for everyone – Why didn’t the NDP go after the LNG issue? Christy and Coleman outright lied and as we all predicted LNG never happened – and they get a free pass? Don’t get it….

  13. D. M. Johnston says:

    I think the Greens are in a precarious position and a lot of their vote may have come from disenchanted Liberals.

    Weaver has to have results and to do that he must negotiate a coalition with the NDP.

    This is fraught with problems but siding with the Liberals will be political suicide.

    it would be to his advantage to chum around with the NDP for 3 years, build up his election war-chest and then “shake the dice”.

    It is rumoured that the Liberals still have lots of money, unlike the NDP and the Greens.

    If he makes an error, his party support will dwindle back to the tin foil hat brigade.

    A lot rests on Weaver’s shoulders in the next few weeks.

    Of course this will be moot if the Libs pick up a seat in the recounts and the Greens will fade off into the sun set.

    (Response: When a party attracts new supporters, it doesn’t matter so much where they came from ..but how to impress them and others with a good on-the-job performance, so the party will keep them and also grow even more. h.o)

  14. e.a.f. says:

    it is disappointing more people did not go out to vote. even if people vote for parties I don’t care for, they need to vote. without the majority of citizens voting, we don’t really have a majority of any party. How can any party say we have a majority in the leg. or parliament. We need to have 75% of the electorate to vote before, in my opinion, any party can say we have a majority of sorts. I some times wonder if political parties taylor their campaigns round that. Now that political parties have the ability to pay for corporations that can use vast amounts of data, etc. algorythms, do we really have a democracy or something else?

    Weaver may have his PhD in an environmental area but he doesn’t know that much about the human animal and that may come back to bite him in the butt. He is on record saying he would support Christy Clark before John Horgan. Not all Greens were aware of that little line and those that did weren’t amused and some voted NDP.

    How could Weaver support Christy who supports the bear hunt?? It isn’t even a big ticket item.

    In my opinion Weaver has a need to be important, unlike Clark who has a need to be liked. Christy Clark will play on that but the other 2 Greens may not buy into it. What we may see if a split in the Green party. Weaver may not be able to deliver the other 2 votes and those two new MLAs may decide to go it case by case.

    It would be interesting to find out which ridings have the fewest voters. Factor in how many empty residences there are in the riding and we know more about how voting patterns are going and how it impacts our democracy.

    If weaver wants to grow his party he partners with no one, he just makes sure the first budget has a reduction in big money in elections. i.e. they set limits on what they can collect and how much can be spent. I would not want Canada to go the way of the u.s.a. which can spend a couple of hundred million to elect one person to a federal office. Its just such a waste of money. I’d also like to see no tax deductions given for donations to political parties, because indirectly every one pays for the other guys donation. (personally don’t use it as a tax deduction either).

    It was interesting to see the North Burnaby area vote for 4 NDP MLAs. One, Janet Routledge, unseated a Liberal who had been there for more than a few year. The thoughts of pipelines going through their area may have had an impact on the voters. Those 4 MLAs are going to be very interesting to watch. two aging baby boomers and two generation X ers. Routledge appears to have had strong support from younger voters. As one of the crop of new MLAs, she will be interesting to watch given her smarts, passion, and organizational skills.

    (Response: Believe me. when it comes to impacting government policies and legislation, the Greens and Weaver will no doubt have a lot bigger priorities …like proportional representation, banning huge corporate/union donations, the environmental, health and education … rather than make the bear hunt their big concern. h.o.).

  15. dani says:

    Harvey I totally agree with your response to ISL AND LOOKOUT’s post above.
    Yesterday one of the news outlets interviewed some people on the street about voting. One person responded that he no interest in politics whatsoever. Fair enough. A couple of others couldn’t answer a very simple question about the BC election if their life depended on it.
    I was dumbfounded. Scary.

    (Response: It really does have to START in schools: so kids will understand that THEY do have a say and even more, THEY will ultimately pay for the plans of whoever does get elected …so they’d better start paying attention if they want to benefit as well. h.o)

  16. Hawgwash says:

    Today’s headline should be;
    Yes, he did. For 4 years he worked on forming a Liberal Government and succeeded.

    Yes and many of my friends are seriously annoyed with me for being hard on Horgan for the past two years.

    I believed all along, as I do now, the NDP should have won this election months ago by burying the Liberals on several very big issues;
    Site C, Health firings, MSP, Housing, SCC teachers victory, pay for play and others. The Health firings alone should have brought the Government down several legislative sessions ago.

    That the Minister of Children and Family Development, Stephanie Cadeau, was re-elected with a 5,000 vote margin is an ugly truth about the lack of an opposition for the past 4 years. This Ministry and the Health file should be a huge embarrassment to the NDP.

    That Peace River North gave a 6,000 vote advantage to the Liberals and that the Cowichan Valley went to the Greens, sums it up for me.

    Sonia Furstenau, in the Cowichan Valley, was elected on her own merits and would have been elected as an Independent or any other label.

    Mr. Olsen in Saanich North and the Islands was also elected on his merit and the people of that riding, not Andrew Weaver, will direct him on who to support.

    So now we wait for the Green Weaver to prove he is not an opportunist. He will need to be very careful to not fracture his 3 seat wagon by forcing Ms. Furstenau into a Liberal corner. Sonia might become a very principled Independent, if Weaver doesn’t behave.

    In my own riding, I have been critical of Gary Holman for the two years I have lived here. He was an easy knock out but again, credit to Mr. Olsen.

    Horgan ran a good ground campaign, where it mattered, but his efforts were too little too late.

    As for banning big business donations, they better get ‘er done quickly and include campaign spending caps. The Liberals have a huge stash of unused funds that, without spending limits, can bury all opponents in the next round.

  17. Frozen Tundra says:

    The interesting part of the election was how the province has been polarized into urban/rural. It is almost like federally where the Liberals governed from Quebec/Ontario and ignored the West. The NDP barely had a sniff in the Interior, but campaigned almost exclusively in metro Vancouver and broke through in a big way, The Liberals pretty much swept the Interior. If the NDP and Green form the government, they have no representation from the interior of the province. If they go through with jacking up the carbon tax, banning Kinder Morgan and pushing the tolls off to resource communities, it may spell the end of the NDP as an organized force outside the 604. The Liberals dont have much a foot inside metro Vancouver so have to tread carefully on Translink, bridge tolls , Kinder Morgan and the Massey bridge. It will be an interesting time in BC.

    (Response: The urban/rural split seems to be occurring more and more often, not only provincially, but nationally and internationally as well. This is a problem, exactly as you outline, and in the end not good for society, but the interests of the two areas are so diverse, I wish all the parties luck in trying to appeal to both. h.o)

  18. Harry Lawson says:


    I am cautiously optimistic that some good governance will come out of this result.

    It is interesting to see that several of the more controversial liberals lost their seats .

    The public is going to be watching the patronage appointments quite closely.

    Both the Liberal and NDP leaders have to watch their p&qs a couple of disgruntled mla’s can disrupt the apple cart.

    It is no longer leadership from the top down.

    (Response: Readers of this blog will know I actually like minority governments: those in power no longer run a total dictatorship, they have to moderate many policies and decisions and better reflect more than just the pressures from their own base and donors. h.o)

  19. Hawgwash says:

    If Weaver sides with Christy and she survives long enough to negotiate on his big platform issues, you just know they will be her doing, just like she killed the HST and gave the teachers a ton of money out of good physical management.

    It will always be about her and she will skewer Weaver, given a chance.

  20. Hawgwash says:

    Physical management?
    That got Mr. Freud laughing.

  21. Eldon says:

    I actually predict the Liberals will wnd up with a majority when all is said and done.

    (Response: There are more than 50,000 absentee ballots to be counted …could affect several outcomes. h.o)

  22. Hawgwash says:

    I still wonder just what Martyn Brown’s agenda is and this is a long piece.

    Worth the time though.


  23. noneck says:

    H. O.’s response to #11 and #15

    You’re right. We should educate kids how to vote.
    You may want to consider how they voted in this election:


  24. Crankypants says:

    It’s been reported that there are about 176,000 absentee ballots to be counted which could change the results in some of the close races.

    (Response: Thanks. The figure quoted earlier, about 50,000 absentee ballots, actually came from the 2013 election. Couldn’t find the number for this time on Elections BC website, but CBC is reporting 176,000 … makes the potential final outcome even more exciting. h.o.)

  25. 13 says:

    Mind boggling, one of the most interesting elections Ive ever participated in. 22 comments , HOs subject matter and many responses. All adding to the impact of an election not yet decided.
    Why am I stuck on GTBs post. I suppose its the audacity of claiming that one is a better class of person than others that disagree with him . Pathetic.

  26. samantha says:

    I so agree with Gene’s comment (2) about hanging out with a better class of people. despite the fact that clark hounded a health worker under false pretenses and was so distraught he committed suicide, despite the fact she refused to apologize to his sister. despite the fact donors were shovelling big money into her coffers for favours, ministry of death for children, grizzly trophy hunting, wolf cull, despite all this, people voted for her and her scoundrels. I was really hoping for better judgement from the voters and that they saw through her alternative facts. nothing good has come from this government for the average person

  27. BMCQ says:

    I arrived home from errands and I was quite enthused to see that there were already 25 comments.

    I then read Harvey’s analysis which thought would encourage much in the way of discussion.

    After reading comment number 2 I simply had to walk away.

    ‘I guess I am just accustomed to hanging out with a better class of people”.

    Pathetically Sad!

    Superiority Complex?

    A comment like that makes me so proud to have a variety of friends that are Highly Educated, not so highly educated, wealthy, not so wealthy, good looking, not so good looking, a variety of skin colours, religions and political leanings.

    Not really sure if any of them are “A Better Class of People” but I consider myself very very fortunate and lucky to be their friend anyway.

    I may try to post on topic again tomorrow.

    That is if I have the Stomach for it.

    I wonder what sort of commentary I would have attracted had I made a statement like that?

    (Response: It’s called democracy…freedom of speech. And we don’t have to agree, but it should be heard …as long as it’s legal and on or close to topic. h.o)

  28. Crankypants says:

    Here’s some information on absentee voting for the previous 6 provincial elections:

    1996-51,044 voters
    2001-71,511 voters
    2005-79,331 voters
    2009-84,259 voters
    2013-159,442 voters
    2017-176,000 voters(approx.)

    All six elections had exactly the same ways one could utilize absentee voting under rules s99, s100, s101, s104 and s106. I wonder what has caused so many more people to utilize absentee voting in the last two elections. Twice as many as previous elections seems to be a very large increase.

    (Response: Thanks for this. Great info! h.o)

  29. DBW says:

    I will apologize for length but I have three things to say .

    1. Gene @2

    While I share your frustration, I can’t demonize Liberal supporters. Maybe it’s living in a small town where it’s easy to get to know everybody else but the Liberals in my riding are not stupid nor are they morally bankrupt. I live in the riding where the Liberal candidate famously distanced himself from Christy Clark (and still lost). I don’t know him well but I know him well enough to exchange pleasantries or share a laugh when, not knowing where each of us lived, we visited on the other’s doorstep while campaigning. I know several of the people who campaigned for him and they are good well meaning people. From conversations and exchanges on social media this is what I have come to understand.

    Liberals want good social services from a thriving economy. They sincerely believe that the Liberals are the only ones to deliver a thriving economy. It doesn’t matter the scandals, the failings, the corruption. “We need good we’ll paying jobs and without the Liberals that isn’t going to happen.”

    No matter what I say in return – rising debt bankrupt BC Hydro, failed LNG pay to play etc -they cant be budged from their position. It’s frustrating for sure but it’s their right as a citizen to hold it and it is up to us or the NDP leadership to convince them otherwise. I am not giving up.

    Christy Clark and her – to quote BMCQ – minions are another matter.

    2. Elections and government are taught in the schools. It is a big part of grade 11 socials studies and would be part of current events during elections. From my limited discussions with young adults of voting age they are turned off by the whole process and think it of little consequence regardless of who wins. That is the fault of the politicians not the schools.

    3. In a previous post I commented that I believed the greens would be stealing from soft Liberals. I had no evidence. Just a feeling. Here is my evidence.

    Last election the Liberals got 44% of the vote and the conservatives who most likely would have voted liberal got 5%. This election the Liberals got 41% and the conservatives disappeared so a combined loss 8%. Last election the NDP got about 40% and almost the exact % this time so no change. The green went from 8% to 17% the same increase that the Libs/ Cons lost. I know it isn’t that simple but it bears a study or two.

  30. e.a.f. says:

    I’m sure Weaver will have all those things on his agenda. However, they aren’t on Christy’s agenda and she isn’t there to promote weaver’s agenda. it will be the end of the B.C. Lieberals.

    My point regarding the bear hunt is that it is such a small thing, but Christy couldn’t even give that up to appear slightly environmental. Many of those who vote Green truly do care about animals and if Weaver doesn’t ensure the things which on some of the voters’ agenda, he will loose votes. All these “policy” type agenda items Weaver has aren’t necessarily why people voted for him.

    we can all wait until 24 May to find out how this all turns out. Went through the lists of how many votes various candidates got and what it would have taken to win if another party had not been around. some ridings its clear the B.C. Lieberals “own” the riding and others the NDP appear to own. then of course there are ridings which the NDP would have won had it not been for the Greens, but there was one riding, don’t remember the name, but the Conservatives ran a candidate and if they had not of, the B.C. Lieberals would have won. \

    Personally I’d like to see a good old fashioned Progressive Conservative Party be viable in B.C. so voters who were on the right of things could have a true political home. I know that won’t work for the pay to play crowd and all those who benefit from the money they receive from the B.C.Government

    (Response: Conservative party as alternative? No. Many BC voters think we already have that …called Liberals. And I believe MOST British Columbians are social progressives. I believe that if BC had a free enterprise , small ‘l” liberal alternative to Clark/Liberals …like Gordon Wilson’s old Liberal party, that party would have swept to power …capturing many votes that went to the NDP by default …because these unhappy voters are socialists but just wanted change.. and there was no small “l” liberal free enterprise alternative. Some political strategists/activists should pay attention to that for the future! h.o)

  31. nonconfidencevote says:

    @#16 Hawgwash
    “That Peace River North gave a 6,000 vote advantage to the Liberals …

    No surprise there. The majority of the voters are expat Albertans working in the oil and gas sector OR working on Site C….
    Bread meet butter.

    “The Liberals have a huge stash of unused funds …..”
    Chrsity may need new shoes and an entire new outfit for the new season…..she may snuffle her way through that cash faster than a pot bellied pig through truffles…..
    Not to worry. Christy’s endless pr train that follows her everywhere on the govt dime will pick up the slack

  32. Gene The Bean says:

    It has no bearing on ‘agreeing with me or not’.

    It is simply that fact that people know they are crooks, they know they are dishonest, they know they lie, they know they manipulate, they know they don’t care about children, or the environment, or the taxpayer or the mentally challenged and are beholden to “big business” – and in light of all that, as long as the ‘voter’ gets their little piece (whatever that is) – they are OK with it and vote for them.

    That is called being “morally bankrupt”.

    Here is a bit of a harsh example but maybe it will drive my point home. No different than ‘the family’ not doing anything about “the relative” that gets accused of doing inappropriate things. Although they all know it is WRONG, they don’t do anything about it. They are ‘morally bankrupt’ in exactly the same way as people turning a blind eye to the Liberals.

    If I hear one more person say “I know they are dirty don’t deserve to govern but everything is going pretty good for me right now so I don’t want to rock the boat” I think I will scream. What happened to honesty and morality? Can any of us say that our grandparents or parents had that attitude?

    If you or others were offended by my strong words, I apologize.

    And as for hanging out with people that are not “morally bankrupt”, well I am proud to say that I do. Can you say the same?

  33. Hawgwash says:

    Read it and pass it on…


    Good sound, defensive, reasoning at 32.

  34. Crankypants says:

    I think that the worst thing that can happen is if the Liberal Party gets one more seat when all the tabulating is finished. We know from the last few years that they have minimal interest in doing their governing from the Legislature and it is logical to assume that they would shun the people’s house even more.

  35. BMCQ says:

    Harvey – 27 Response

    Of course we all believe in Freedom of Speech, and yes Democracy.

    I just find it bothersome that some/one seems to think that anyone that Votes for the B.C. Liberals is/are Morons, Knuckle Dragging, Uneducated, and the rest.

    “A better Class of People”?


    If numbers provided by Elections B.C. are more or less accurate it appears that about what 41% of the Voters on May 9 supported the B.C. Libs.

    I have experienced a lot in my life, been to a lot of places, managed to be successful without doing anything illegal, and had a few Bones broken along the way.

    I just think it is unacceptable and unprincipled for me to think that I “Hang” with a crowd that is Superior or Better than any other group of people just because they think or Vote the way I do.

    I consider myself lucky to live in Canada where we are actually allowed to have our own opinions and gather with anyone we choose.

    As a matter of fact DBW – 29 – point 1 makes my point quite skillfully.

    DBW – 29

    Point – 1

    Thank you for making the point, it is fine to disagree fiercely but have a little class.

    Thank God My Parents taught me I was better than No One.

    Point – 2.

    I tend to disagree with the opinion that Students are disengaged because of Politicians.

    There are many reasons they are turned off but the biggest part is the fact that they seem more infatuated with Social Media, They are Gamers, they worry about the Kardashians, and they do not talk to their Parents, or their Parents do not engage with them.

    To blame the Politicians is the easy way out.

    Point 3.

    I do recall your comment.

    IMHO I believe that many younger and perhaps other Voters that did not necessarily want to support the Liberals did not want to go all of the way to the NDP so they went Green.

    That tells the Libs they need to make changes whatever those might be and it also tells the NDP that they need to ask themselves why those Voters went Green instead of NDP.

    Good observation!

    You and I may never agree on many things DBW but I know that you for sure do not think I am moronic, uneducated, immoral, racist, greedy, or knuckle dragging, correct?


    By the way, I was impressed with the Weaver Presser yesterday.

    Do not agree with his opinions on Pipelines, LNG, or a few other things but he handled himself well.


    I believe the Liberals will at least get the Courtenay Comox Seat and perhaps one more.

    I find it very interesting and distressing just how Polarized the Province of B.C. and really the rest of Canada and the U.S. is in these times.

  36. 13 says:

    Gtb I am not offended by any of your blather. Amused maybe saddened annoyed
    To be offended I would need to put some stock into your opinions.
    I will endevours to read your posts without feeling the need to comment on them

    Have a nice day

  37. Harry Lawson says:

    No matter what the outcome is it is no longer leadership from the top down. The leaders job is going to be even tougher, it would only take a couple disgruntled mla’s and we have a new government or election. If I was Ms Clark I would be careful who takes her for lunch.

  38. Gene The Bean says:

    Please comment at anytime, unlike some here I feel no need and am not driven to blather on so I can be vindicated or agreed with.

    Was hoping to get some feedback from liberal voters regarding my comments and reasoning behind my definition of ‘morally bankrupt’ – – – just the crickets so far ……

  39. Hawgwash says:

    For the unconvinced here’s one from the inside;


    And one from the outside;

    “The Liberals’ regional marketing failed. Of the 14 so-called “Island Champions,” only incumbent Michele Stilwell (a Paralympic champion) won in Parksville. In Vancouver, the 11 candidates who posed for a photo on the Georgia Straight produced three winners (Langara’s Michael Lee, Quilchena’s Andrew Wilkinson and False Creek’s Sam Sullivan), which could be reduced to two if there is a recount in Vancouver False Creek.”

  40. Keith E. says:

    Hi Harvey,

    many thanks for giving a forum for this discussion, as usual many good points.

    Just saw on the local Island news that 1/3 of eligible voters didn’t vote in Courtenay/Comox that has a difference of nine votes between first and second, presently sweating on the absentee ballots

    RE Gene the Bean #32

    “That is called being morally bankrupt”

    This morning a liberal voter asked me what I thought of the election result. My reply was “ I was appalled the liberals got so many votes”

    She asked what do I mean? my reply was, “ at what point does a liberal voter say when the bottom of the moral/ethical barrel is reached. Was it the B.C. rail 6 million guilty plea payoff just before a former cabinet minister was to get asked some sticky questions. Or the firing of health researchers, leaving their reputations and lives in shreds then lying about an RCMP investigation, and one poor soul taking his life, with no explanations for either, nor a peep from any other liberal mla.”?

    The squirming and silence was something to behold.

    I’m not thinking too far down the road until the final numbers are in. Having said that, whatever the outcome, if Andrew Weaver has a say I’m hoping for the Dr. Weaver Nobel Prize winner to emerge, hopefully giving the folks of B.C. someone of substance, not a lowest common denominator grubbing politician or a deaf/dumb/blind trained seal that for a large part is the norm.

    My hopes would be; A) ban the large political donations, individual donations, 1 per year with a $ limit. B) any government investigations to be conducted by out of province investigators with no links to whoever is in government. C) No more phony balanced budgets achieved by adding to the debt. D) An all party agreement upon accounting practices of government revenues.

    Think I’m asking for too much.?

  41. DBW says:

    BMCQ said “I know that you for sure do not think I am moronic, uneducated, immoral, racist, greedy, or knuckle dragging, correct?”

    Gene The Bean is never subtle. I am. Note in my post I referenced the use of your favourite word minion. I did that on purpose. Trudeau and his minions. Horgan and his minions. Never Clark or Harper or Trump and THEIR minions. It drives me crazy. Anybody that supports your political opponents like say me for instance is considered an unimportant servile slavish follower. Thanks.

    But to answer you question, while I don’t know you as well as I do my Liberal friends, I don’t believe you to be moronic immoral etc but I do find your continued MINION-like support of Christy and her government utterly mind boggling.

    Furthermore, about the lack of interest by young voters I was more interested in defending the schools. The schools are doing their job Maybe I am wrong about politicians but I doubt it. But what I found interesting is your characterization of young people. They are just gamers and social media addicts ( says someone on a blog lol).

    I taught high school for over 30 years. I know what kids can do when they are motivated. They are not motivated by politics and why should they be. Why would anybody want to vote when even someone like you says “sure Christy is bad but in a sea of twos …”. Or sure they’re? crooks but they are all crooks. Maybe the non-voters are telling us something.

    (Response: Can we now all get back to the “TOPIC” of the post pls everyone. Personal comments deteriorate the conversation. h.o)

  42. 13 says:

    41% of those that voted for the Liberals did so because
    They believe in a free enterprise system
    They want smaller government
    They dont like the amount of tax money that is wasted on social engineering
    They dont believe in PC behavior
    They hate the thought of an NDP government.
    In order to support a party that fits their wants and needs they are willing to overlook the mistakes , scandals and other problems that are outlined on this blog.
    Just try to imagine how much they must loath the ideology of the NDP.

  43. BMCQ says:

    DBW – 40

    Premier Clark and her Minions (followers) will more than likely end up with a very slim Majority in the Legislature of say 44 or 45 Seats.

    They have gained at least 41% of the Votes Cast May 9.

    I believe that most of us vote for any Party that we feel will represent what we would like to see reflected in Government and we may not always agree with each other. That is just fine with me and it really does not make us that different or enemies.

    Being Classless does not translate into less subtle.

    Obviously there is a significant number of Voters that took the time to cast Absentee and Advance Votes, that tells me that they CARE no matter which Party Candidate they supported.

    It is obvious that most of us have different reasons why we support any one Candidate or Party.

    Personally I have supported NPA in Vancouver but from time to time voted for another Party Member for various reasons.

    I agree with h.o. That every Vote could and should Count.

    And yes, People Gave their Lives so we can ‘Vote today!

    Not all Candidates or Parties are say a 10, sometimes we must compromise and do the best we can, that is the nature of Politics and Voting.

    I have said many times that Premier Clark is not my favourite but in my mind Clark and Her Minions offer Me what I want to see in Government.

    People on this Blog do not seem to understand that it is not only “The 1%” that Vote B.C. Liberal, you do understand that do you not?

    And at the same time Liberal Supporters are not all “Low Information” Etc. Voters.

    I believe the Absentee and Advance Vote Count will reflect that over the next weeks.

    Yes, it may only turn out to be 44 or 45 Liberal Seats but it believe will be a Majority.

    Having said all of that, I did not want to Jinx the Libs when you asked about my prediction and say anything here but when CC came out against U.S. Coal Exports I had a good idea they felt they were in trouble.

    If the Libs feel they will not win in Courtenay they may offer Weaver and his Minions Official Party Status in the next week. A move like that would make Political sense.

    If the Libs are confident in winning that Seat they may not offer Greens Official Party Status.

    Politics in B.C. Is a “Blood Sport”, there is no doubt about that!

  44. Eldon says:

    Here is a short video showing the work BC teachers are doing to teach politics. The local candidates have been great about coming in and taking student questions and answering them seriously.


  45. RS says:

    Really?! Am I the only one to have witnessed Dream Weaver’s temper – every bit as vitriolic as Horgan’s – in the second of just two debates?

  46. DBW says:

    Thanks for allowing my slightly off topic rant. It frustrates me that after 16 years of missteps, the BC Liberals continue to have the support they do, but I doubt name calling supporters will change that. I just wanted to point out that it does happen from the other side as well whether they realize it or not.

    Back on topic. It is becoming easier and easier to vote. We had six days of advance polling plus pretty much everyday to vote at an electoral office. And one thing I didn’t know. I was going to be travelling on election day so voted at an advance poll. My ballot was counted May 9. Had I voted at the electoral office even though my ballot was in my home riding it would have been considered an absentee ballot and not counted until May 22. If a party in one of those close ridings really pushed its supporters to vote early at electoral offices, absentee votes might make a bigger difference than normal.

    I am no strategist but if we have a minority government the greens no matter how they proceed need to be careful of perception. I still believe they can steal more votes from the Liberals. Harvey response#30 is right. People in BC are looking for an actual Liberal party. If the greens support the Liberals then any legislative gains for their program have to be seen as coming from them rather than a warm and fuzzier Clark. The same is true if they prop the NDP.

    We were at a watershed in 1991 when an actual Liberal party gave us a three party system for a bit. We may be at that same moment again which I believe would benefit this province.

    (Response: My blog today is on why Greens should prop up Liberals …not NDP … if we have a minority government. h.o)

  47. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Some fun news from “CKNDP.”

    UBC economist says chance of Liberal majority just one in ten:


    Simon Little’s analysis says the NDP have a much better chance of picking up (or saving) seats in the contested ridings.

  48. BMCQ says:

    Barry – 47

    I suppose none of us really have nothing but our opinion when it comes to who will win or flip any given Seat.

    Unless I am mistaken Simon Little is a Reporter at NW, what other credentials does he have?

    Remember going back over the past at least 7 years Experts of all kinds were telling us the B.C. Real Estate Market was in a Bubble and about to Burst and the prices actually tripled in some cases.

    Then the same Experts told us Interest Rates would go through the Roof and they in fact declined at least a dozen times.

    Same with the CAD which was going to “SOAR” to USD $ 1.15. And what happened? the CAD dropped to under $ .70 USD where it looks like it is headed again.

    Would you really want to Bet your Pension on what Experts like Simon Little, Milligan have to say about any given Ridings?

    Keep in mind that the NDP are ahead in Courtenay and the Liberal Guy there is only 9 Votes behind.

    Also keep in mind that the Liberal is a former very popular Former Base Commander in that area.

    Also keep in mind that the bulk of the Absentee Ballots could very well be Military Personnel Stationed elsewhere temporarily.

    Who do you think they might have Voted for?

    That Seat has the best chance of a change and I would not Bet against that happening.

    Only a guess on my part but I am going to guess that Simon Little and Milligan are NDP Supporters.

    “Simon Says What”?

  49. G. Barry Stewart says:

    BMCQ, I made an error: Simon Little is the ‘NW writer. Kevin Milligan is the analyst.

    “Milligan analyzed the absentee vote in these tight ridings from 2013, then plugged the numbers into a simulation that he ran one million times.”

    ‘Sounds pretty mathematical to me, rather than being politically-motivated. We’ll see where it all lands…

  50. BMCQ says:

    Barry – 49


    I see where the NDP today made Formal Applications for recounts in three Ridings.

    Seems to me that they have very little hope of making up literally hundreds of Votes but I suppose if some Votes are disqualified and then the Absentee Votes added in there could end up being a significant change.

    Again I do believe that logic tells us there could be an actual Flip and change of the Elected Candidate in Courtenay.

    I wonder if Milligan looked at that particular Riding?

    For some reason I have a natural skepticism toward Academics and their Models etc.

    We employ a lot of 3D Reverse Engineering to develop Illustrated Solid Models with Geometry and the finished product is absolute.

    We also use Chemistry.to Alloy various Metals and the Science is real.

    It seems to me that too many of the Models and other Mumbo Jumbo used by Academics gets totally ignored and they are never held to account when their Theories Eventually Hold No Water.

    The reason they are never held to account is because they are forgotten about after their conclusions were not accurate.

    I am not saying Milligan is incorrect or even dishonest but I am skeptical.

    I know it may take at least two weeks or more but I am going to try and keep track if this recount etc and see where Milligan Theory leads us.

    Might be interesting.

  51. Crankypants says:

    Apparently Milligan used the Absentee vote results from the 2013 election and in some way tried to compensate for ridings that had their boundaries changed.

    It seems to me that there are just too many variables to get any meaningful results. There are new voters, voters that have passed on, voters that are now in a different riding, voters that become non-voters and those that change which party/candidate they support.

  52. 13 says:

    “only a guess….Simon Little and Milligan are NDO supporters”
    You can take that to the bank. If you work for NW or consult with NW or are an “expert” on any NW topic from housing to healthcare to the economy and education you damned well better be an NDP supporter.
    WITH TWO glaring exceptions
    Micheal Campbell and Bruce Allen. Both of these gentlemen are a breath of clean fresh non supportive NDP air.

  53. BMCQ says:

    Cranky – 51


    Great Post!

    If that is the case the CKNDP Reporter should have clarified or at least asked the question.

    Let us see if Milligan is anywhere near close.

    If he is off the mark I suggest he use an Ouija Board in Four Years!

    I could be wrong but I still believe the Courtenay Seat is the only one with a chance of a Flip.

  54. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I don’t know when or why CKNW changed its tone and actually started doing its job. It had to be some time after “Vanilla Bill” retired.

    I’m not aware of an actual ownership change in that time — but it’s refreshing to hear a station going after the government of the day, on issues that they deserve to be criticized for. Norm Farrell, for example, has been on Jon McComb’s show, to talk about the billions being squandered at BC Hydro.

    Would we prefer a “Rah! Rah!” station, like we’d find in North Korea?

    The party in control of government gets the credit — and the heat. That’s how it works, though BC media’s version of “heat” has been pretty mild in the last few decades. ‘Nice to see CKNW spicing it up.

    If a Green/NDP coalition rises up, I expect them to catch some heat from the media, too.

    (Response: I wish they had call-in discussions: they are often interesting, provocative and amusing. Like on here! 🙂 I don’t listen to NW at all as much as I did when they had call-ins. h.o)

  55. BMCQ says:

    Barry – 54

    Personally I DO NOT care if a Program Host is critical of any one Party as long as the are honest and do not manipulate the News or slant any given subject/story to favourite a Party dishonestly.

    I do however have great concern when a Host like Simi Sara does manipulate stories and reports to make the B.C. Libs or Federal Cons look incompetent or in fact dishonest.

    She is sjikked at this and in fact much like CNN in the U.S. she will intentionally omit points of a story to suit her purpose.

    McComb was always fair and balanced in his criticisms of both B.C. Parties up until the last year or so when JM himself and his Staff all do everything they can to put the Libs in a bad light.
    The immature snickering is beneath JM.

    JM or Sara hardly take any calls and do not because it gives them less control on how they want their show to play out.

    I believe a lot of that has to do with the very Leftist American PD who hates everything Conservative. Again the snickering regarding Trump is sickening.

    The manipulation by those two shows tells me they have no respect for their listening audience as they feel they can provide that Listener what is good for them.

    People criticize Bill Good but at least he invited people from all Political beliefs to call in and have their say and express their opinions no matter what they might be.

    How bad can that be?

    I have no evidence of this but I believe BG was forced into a corner by NW Management and he was forced to resign, eben though he was still doing well with Ratings.

    To me that is a dangerous thing.

    Balance BARRY, Balance.

    To me the test and strength of any Opinion Radio Host is if that Host is willing to take on Guests from all sides, allow them to present their case and then chalenge that Guest and then in Turm invite calls from anyone that cares to take up the challenge.

    That in fact is a Win for the Station, the Host, the Listener/Caller, and Democracy.

    In my opinion CKNDP has done the Dishonourable Thing!

  56. 13 says:

    Just a heads up on dishonest Jons radio show. He does next to no live call in but he loves to do their buzz line. Its easy to see why as they can play call after call that supports the shows pro NDP anti Liberal bias. Beyond picking and choosing the calls that get air time they have also developed a very despicable and somewhat dishonest habit. His crack team of producers will edit the buzz line calls by omitting the begining or end of a call to completely change the meaning or tone of the call.Ask me how I know this for a fact. When I call in now I usually end the message with a feel free to edit as you choose. Simi is just as bad as her producer , Claire Allen, keeps track of callers numbers (names) and seldom allows them on air to challange Ms Sara on her biased reporting.
    They havent had a balanced call in show since Christy left the station.

    (Response: Getting off topic here … as usual, I allow one comment, trying to be open …and away we go! Please save all further media comments for a media topic. Will try to do one soon. h.o)

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