Andrew Scheer on Firearms

You won’t find this TODAY on Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer’s website … it was ERASED … or I’d bet you won’t see it either on his upcoming 2019 election platform.

However, back in 2017, when Scheer was running for the Tory leadership, HIS position was one I believe would trouble many Canadians today … especially in light of the three recent shooting deaths in BC …. as well as the several other shootings in the country in recent months.

Read it for yourself … obtained through the Internet Archive WayBack Machine … and let me know what YOU think:

Common Sense on Firearms by Andrew Scheer

“In my mind, a successful firearms policy should do two things. It should deter criminal activity and should respect the rights of law-abiding gun owners. For too long, laws in this country have had it backwards. Bills crafted in downtown offices by people who often had no first-hand experience using firearms have put undue restrictions on those who respect and follow the law while doing virtually nothing to stop the criminals who ignore it.

“I’ll never forget the first time I went hunting.  I went with a group of friends up to Northern Saskatchewan for whitetail deer.  The first thing that struck me was how safety-oriented everyone was. I must have been told a dozen times how to handle my rifle safely. I quickly realized that gun owners are sticklers for safety because they are the ones affected if something goes wrong.  The people I was with knew and followed all the rules, whether it was safe transport or minimum distances from dwellings, because they knew and took seriously the responsibilities that go along with firearm ownerships.

“I won’t go into all the details about the trip (except to say that I dropped a buck from 400 metres away using a friend’s .308 precision rifle! And the jerky tasted terrific).

“It is abundantly clear to me that there are several things that need to change in order for us to have a more balanced, effective firearms system in Canada.

“When I am Prime Minister I will:

“Launch a review of the criminal code and repeal all federal regulations pertaining to firearms ownership, usage and transportation which do not do the following: ensure that Canada’s firearms laws respect the rights of honest firearms owners, recognize the fact that hunting and sports shooting are an important part of Canadian culture and history, and empower police to concentrate on real criminals who are a threat to the public.

“More specifically, I will:

  • Remove the power of the RCMP to arbitrarily make reclassifications. Too often, certain types of firearms are reclassified and made illegal simply because of how they look, and not because of any safety concerns. I will enact legislation that removes the subjective authority of the RCMP to reclassify based on aesthetics.
  • Define terms in legislation – The legislation that my government will enact will specify actual legal definitions for variants to ensure that those unfamiliar with firearms cannot decide on the legality of a gun based on how it looks. They will instead be required to make determinations based on the actual mechanics of firearms.
  • Repeal restrictions on magazines like the 10/22 – Like firearms classifications, magazines are also subject to arbitrary rule changes from RCMP bureaucrats. Many of the rules are not based on common sense. I will replace these rules with a system based on advice and input from firearms associations.
  • Repeal the UN Firearms-Marking Regulations – The Liberals are threatening to submit to the UN markings protocol. This will have a devastating effect on the Canadian firearms market and impose new and undue burdens on law-abiding firearms owners. As well, according to law-enforcement experts, there is zero evidence that it will have any positive effect on fighting criminals. I will repeal these regulations and ensure that they do not come into force.
  • Strengthen the Firearms Advisory Council – I will ensure that this group of firearms experts has meaningful input on government policy decisions. I will also ensure that the members of the council include representatives from the stakeholder groups who would be affected by those decisions.
  • Decriminalize administrative infractions such as late renewal of a recently-expired firearms licence. — As the regulations currently stand, a person becomes a criminal for allowing their licence to expire. That is a complete waste of government and police resources. I will institute a grace period for lapsed five-year permits, wherein you won’t be able to purchase anything new, but you will not be subject to criminal prosecution or face the possibility of a jail sentence.
  • Create a Firearms Ombudsman – In order to ensure that any new Government proposals and initiatives are always seen through the lens of honest firearms owners, I will create an Ombudsman to advocate on behalf of the firearms community. This person will have the authority to review any proposed regulation and interact with the Public Safety Minister on behalf of individual firearms owners and the various firearms organizations.

“Law-abiding Canadians should not have to justify to the government why they need a firearm. You can be assured that I will always be on the side of law-abiding gun owners. No drug dealer has ever stopped to get an ATT before he went about committing his crimes. We need laws that will empower police in their efforts to keep our streets safe. The policy I am proposing will ensure that law enforcement officers aren’t forced to waste their time policing those who follow the laws, and can concentrate their efforts on actual criminal activity with regards to guns. 

“I have worked to fight ridiculous and wasteful laws since being first elected in 2004.  I am proud to have the endorsement of former Conservative MP Garry Breitkreuz, who famously exposed the waste in the long-gun registry and who worked tirelessly to scrap it.”

You can see the actual now-deleted Scheer campaign paper here: https://web.archive.org/web/20170525150610/http://www.andrewscheer.com/common_sense_on_firearms

Not a policy I would want to see in MY Canada!

I am fearful enough when I vacation in the US …where more than 14,400 people were murdered using guns in 2016 (plus 22,900 suicides) … and where firearm shooting sprees are now a regular occurrence.

I respect … although I would never do it … that some people like to hunt or even shoot at targets as sport.

However, Scheer’s firearms position is too “liberal” … if I can use that word referring to Tory policy.

Hopefully the media will wake up … and ask them about his STATED policy … and then watch him squirm.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: To get First Alerts of all new postings on this BC-based blog, follow me @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam …just First Alerts of new postings. )

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41 Responses to Andrew Scheer on Firearms

  1. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, I am afraid that you have fallen for the propaganda of the gun grabbing crowd, which consists mostly of “ew, guns scary, let’s make them illegal”.
    I believe it was Harper who brought in some laws prescribing minimum sentences for gun crimes, but our very Liberal judges didn’t like that as it took away power from the courts, and let’s face it, it is only about power and who has it.
    Governments don’t like citizens to be armed as has been shown over and over, even when their lives may depend on having a gun. That was shown in the Bouchie case in Sask. and another case in Alberta, and yet again in Ontario, when a shooting instructor was charged with discharging a gun at people who were fire-bombing his residence. The one common factor, all of the cases involved people who had no immediate access to police help and so were on their own. Nevertheless they were all charged as criminals and had to spend thousands of dollars defending themselves.
    Having the RCMP in charge of regulating firearms is a non-starter in my opinion as they cannot be trusted as evidenced in High River, AB, when they went house to house looking for residents who disobeyed the evacuation order, but the only houses they entered contained guns, which they illegally confiscated for the “safety of the public”. They also stole thousands of rounds of ammunition, which the gun owners were not compensated for, even though they were forced to give back the guns. Nobody, as far as I know, was held responsible.
    As you may have deduced, I think Scheer’s proposals have quite a bit of common sense to them, and at least show some thought, not just pandering to the anti-gun crowd, and I don’t see anyone advocating for us to be like the U.S.
    One further thought, I kind of doubt making stricter and stricter and more onerous laws, will make the shootings in Vancouver and Toronto and elsewhere disappear, but they will make the hunters and sport shooters poorer, so there is that.

    (Response: Let’s keep it real: guns in Canada are NOT illegal … they are restricted. Big difference. And there are LOTS of people who still own them, use them, enjoy them. For what possible benefit to society would we want to make it easier to get guns, keep guns, use guns? I think Scheer should have left well enough alone, and judging by the fact, his policy was pulled off his site as soon as he became leader, looks to me like he was trying to exploit right wing support with the issue … and then backed off once the possibility of him becoming PM became a reality. h.o.)

  2. e.a.f. says:

    Well thank you for sharing this with us Harvey!

    After another 2 mass shootings in the U.S.A. and one in Ontario, I think the gun debate is dead. We all know what needs to be done.

    (Response: Clearly, based on Scheer’s stated position and recent events on both sides of the border, the gun debate is NOT dead …either in Canada …or the US. h.o)

  3. Gene The Bean says:

    I thought we’d see a post like this after the horrible terrorist attacks in Trumpistan. So far this year 57 murdered, 78 wounded in mass shootings by white supremacist conservatives. Five more months to go though….

    Scheer’s ‘schmear’ is just more of the same BS being pedalled by Trump to the low IQ conservative base – feeding watered down pablum to knuckle-draggers.

    Why do Cons love guns? It is probably just a black and white answer but my take is they are afraid.

    Hunting and trap/target shooters are by and far normal folks. I know lots of them and support their pastime. I also know a few Neo-Con nutjobs who neither hunt or target shoot but have a hoard of guns at home. Why?

    We’ll be hearing if from the aptly names Cons soon enough, be afraid of this, be afraid of that, don’t let the Libs take your guns….. the right will eat it all up.

    Like you say Harvey, would really like to see the media pin down all politicians and force them to answer questions and state positions as opposed to regurgitating talking points purposefully written for someone at a grade nine education level.

    (Response: Canadians have a right to know: does Scheer still support his previously stated position on RELAXING firearms rules? If he still supports his stated position, why was it removed from his website? Put it up there now ..for Canadians to read and discuss. h.o)

  4. Harry lawson says:

    Harvey,

    We need gun laws,we need restrictions and yes even on the way they look. Why should a a 22 cal look like a AK 47 ? And why change the policy Now? Could it be polling?. This could be a issue that could give Trudeau a boost, the silly election season is in full swing.

    (Response: Not sure it’s “silly” …yet. Give them time … and hopefully before they get silly, they’ll discuss REAL policy issues too … like Scheer’s pledge to loosen gun laws. h.o)

  5. max avelli says:

    So Scheer says that on his first ever hunting trip that he downed a buck from 400 yards.

    That would be quite a feat for an experienced hunter.

    Can someone look into this obvious falsehood?

  6. 13 says:

    In Canada we have very strict gun laws. What we do not have
    A police force capable of catching criminals re2 port alberni killers
    If the cops get lucky enough to catch a criminal we can’t have a trial and a conviction re surrey 6
    If we do manage a conviction a parole board spits the criminal oUT way to soon
    See constant warnings re police warnings of sex offenders likelto reoffend being released

    Last but not least we have a government that assumes all rcmp are guilty of sexualbharrasment and pays convicted killers 10 million dollars
    We are not the usa and we don’t need stronger laws we need our government to enforce the laws we have.

  7. Gilbert says:

    To reduce gun violence, we need to have real consequences for those who use guns illegally and to commit crimes, we need minimal sentencing, and we need to stop gun smuggling. The solution is not to punish law-abiding gun owners. The way some liberals act, we should also eliminate cars, knives and chainsaws because they can also kill.

    This will not be a major issue in the next election campaign unless the Liberals and their bought media attempt to make it one. The real issues need to be the state of our budget (budgets balance themselves), our dismal relations with the USA, India and China (our prime minister isn’t taken seriously by anyone), our inability to develop our resources, our problem with illegal immigrants, our lack of border security, the lack of independence of our justice system, and the need to eliminate interprovincial trade barriers.

  8. Gilbert says:

    I forgot to mention the carbon tax. It’s just another source of cash for our prime minister who wants it to compensate for his fiscal irresponsibility. And let me also add that Gerald Butts should return the severance to the Canadian taxpayer that he received when he resigned.

  9. D.M. Johnston says:

    It is interesting that the conservatives are more and more looking like American Republican light.

    Toting guns is a sure sign that one lacks any sort of moral courage, except for the police of course. As said before, Canada has very strict gun laws. In the USA, there constitution includes having, a “well regulated militia” and nothing about military grade automatic weapons of today. There is no 2nd Amendment right to any but single-shot, muzzle-loading, black-powder, round-shot weapons.

    In the USA, this manifests itself in mass shootings by the mentally ill, with deranged politcal thoughts.

    The Conservatives are extolling American politics in Canada, in the mistaken belief that Canadians will some day join the excited states to the south.

    memo to Scheer and his Republican clones: We are not Americans, we do not need to carry military style guns to pretend we are American, and please go back to that foul little place of hate where you came from.

    P.S. That well regulated militia was to mainly keep a black slave uprising from happening and to liquidate indigenous people.

    (Response: I’m sure Scheer doesn’t support anything like they have in the US, where in some states carrying guns, rifles etc OPENLY is legal. I just wonder why he felt it was worth proposing a substantial loosening of our current tight laws: yes, it would garner some votes from hunters etc., but surely someone aspiring to be PM should realize MOST Canadians would NOT favor that. Wonder if …in the current climate ..he will DARE to reintroduce his policy during the coming campaign. h.o)

  10. 13 says:

    It was only in the past 5 or so years that the top RCMP in BC stated that we needed to CRACK down on Canadian Tire for selling ammunition to gangsters that walk in off the street. He was woefully unaware that in order to buy ammo in Canada you must have a license to possess a firearm.
    The Federal Liberals also want us to believe that many of the guns used in crimes are sourced locally and are not smuggled in from the USA.
    Well most of our locally Surrey sourced gangsters use hand guns. If you buy a hand gun and it is stolen you must report it. Every time you buy a hand gun it is recorded and sold only to a license holder. So if the Fed Libs are telling us the truth then that means the Surrey gangster is buying an arsenal and the government isnt looking at its own files.
    I suppose the government tells this lie to make people think that the CBSA is an efficient well run organization.
    We live next to the largest supply of hand guns on the planet. Only Trudeau could be stupid enough to claim that criminals are not using guns smuggled across our boarder

  11. 13 says:

    Please accept my apology for not using the correct rhetoric as outlined in post number 3.
    ” low IQ conservative base …feeding watered down pablum to knuckle draggers” This is the Scheer smear.
    So the Trudeau trauma drama crowd would be
    “low IQ liberal base ..feeding THC laced cbd oil to burned out tree huggers”

    (Response: Can we stick to the topic pls. h.o)

  12. 13 says:

    Sorry Harvey. Being a conservative supporter and hoping that Scheer replaces Trudeau in October I get tired of the derogatory language that I see describing a political ideology that I support and the insults are a bit over the top.
    I hope that Scheer does reintroduce this as part of his platform. If he doesnt then it isnt as dishonest as the ethically challenged Trudeau government.
    Voter reform
    Aga Kahn holiday
    Feminist support excluding JWR

  13. Don says:

    Lived in Switzerland for number of years. Most households have military rifles in their homes part of the old mandatory military service requirements. No mass shootings there. WHY?

  14. Gene The Bean says:

    DM #9 – you make good points and your comment brings me back to my question which hopefully someone can shed some light on…

    Why do Cons love guns? Is it a power thing? Is it a I know I’m weak so I need to act strong thing? Is it just a low IQ meathead like to kill things and shoot up stuff thing? Do they really believe the we all need to be afraid of the “brown hordes storming the border”?

    Getting to the bottom of that would be both interesting and insightful. I’d say around 80% of Canadian gun owners would identify as being a conservative. That’s a four to one ratio which is very high.

    Would be interested in hearing from Harvey and most others on why that might be…..

  15. DBW says:

    Gene @14. I spent a lot of time on the last topic looking stuff up. I enjoyed it because I was interested. Not so much interested in this topic but I googled “why people like guns”. I skimmed these four and as a whole they seem relatively balanced.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/brain-flapping/2015/oct/07/gun-demanding-control-firearms-psychology

    https://www.quora.com/Why-do-people-like-guns-so-much

    https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/why-are-white-men-stockpiling-guns/

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/04/mass-shooting-gun-culture-227502

    My opinion:

    I don’t own a gun and except for being the starter at a handful of track meets have never used any kind of gun.

    But I don’t think it does any good to demonize people who do enjoy guns and try to make it an us vs them issue. The vast majority of gun owners want sensible gun laws.

    But it is important that we understand why people want and use guns before we can make good legislation that will satisfy both sides.

    That is definitely true in the US where their history, specifically the second amendment is a huge sticking point.

    (Response: I have friends/family in the US who own guns: it’s a sad reality that many Americans living in large urban centres can face robbery, mugging, car jacking MANY, MANY more times than we can even imagine in Canada. Even I was almost car-jacked last year at 4:30 a.m. on my way, in a brand new rental car, to Fort Lauderdale airport to catch a flight back to Vancouver… I got away, at speed. And that doesn’t include the 252 mass shootings (!!!!) they have had in the US so far this year alone. Americans will NEVER give up their guns … BUT 90% do support universal background checks and I believe by far the majority would approve controls on machine guns, AK 47s etc. The problem is the NRA OWNS too many politicians down there, where unlike Canada, there are in effect no spending or fundraising limits on elections. Wonder if Scheer would change that. h.o.)

  16. e.a.f. says:

    #6, re the Surrey Six trial, of course there couldn’t be a trial. In my opinion, the screwed up literally and figuratively. One of the wonder ful RCMP officers was having sex with one of those involved in the investigation, and not once–yes BMCQ, that is one of those reasons Trudeau, knew to sign the deal.

    The RCMP screwed up the Air India investigation, so most of them walked. Oh, aren’t they wonderful.

    The RCMP couldn’t find those alleged Port Alberni teen age murderers, because the RCMP in my opinion wasn’t doing its job. My take on it was, the RCMP didn’t get serious about the murders, until a couple of Sargent Detectives showed up from New South Wales. Then they had to pull out all stops, and some of them were so expensive and useless–$20K fuel bills for some of those ineffective plans with heat sensing equipment. Could have told them it wouldn’t work in dense forest.

    So I’d agree I wouldn’t leave the RCMP in charge of much.

    now as to taking the guns, etc. out of the flooded town, that was a smart thing to do. they were not locked in accordance with the law. They were just laying around. guns are to be locked in secure lockers. Shooters I know keep their gun/rifles in locked cabinets, and good luck getting into them and keep their ammo some where else, also under lock and key. that stuff was just laying around in High River. the problem is, when people leave that type of stuff laying around others come by and pick it up and use it and some times people die. We all know looters love disaster. What would have happened if looters had gained access to those guns? What if they had been aimed at you.

    Hand guns are easy to come by. They have used “straw buyers”, they smuggle them into Canada along with the drugs. In Mexico, those guns that kill people back in the 1980s they found a lot of them were American guns.

    We need better gun/rifle laws in this country. We need a registry again. We need to enforce the laws also. Enforcing them will however require more police, judges, etc. and no one wants to pay for it.

    I know people who have guns/rifles and are very security conscious about them. The use them either for legal hunting or target shooting internationally.

    Switzerland, which has tons of guns, no problem they regulate the ammo. Of course its a different type of society and country than Canada and the U.S.A., but still the same, we might want to look at what they’re doing.

    If people are angry with each other and they have a gun, they’ll use it. If they don’t have them, they’ll just have to use their fists, or knives and usually most people walk away from those types of fights,

    The Cons are pro gun, in my opinion, and they use the gun issue to appeal to people who have little to no power. Conservatives don’t care about the majority of people in this country. They have yet to bring anything to the table which improved the lives of the working men and women of this country. they’re good for corporations and tax cuts.

    As to those who’d like to see Scheer in office, have at ‘er, but I do hope you have a big enough bank account to carry you through as they cut social services, and yes our health care. those law and order Cons, remember Vic Toews, Harper even made him a Judge, seemed to have a thing with teen age baby sitters as I recall. harper, taking money out of the RCMP budget to fight child porn, ya, tell me about those great Conservatives. And then there still is Stevie Cameron’s book, On the Take, the Mulroney years. Its still a good read and remember, he sued anyone and everyone who said “nasty” things about him and he didn’t sue her.

    In my opinion, the difference between a Cons and a Liberal is, one steals with two hands and the other with one hand. I’ll stick with the NDP, but if I have to make a choice between the Cons and the Liberals, it would have to be the liberals, except for Paul Martin.

    As our population grows and we urbanize, we need to have a good grip on the guns and rifles in our country and for that we need laws and a gun control department. yes, it costs money, but how much is you’re child’s life worth? How much is your Mother’s life worth, or your Uncle’s?

    For those who are pro Scheer and his “former’ and to be again gun fun laws, go have a look at some one who has been shot. Its really not pleasant. Its why some police and first responders get PTSD.

    If we had waited for the Conservatives to provide a national health care program or CPP, we still wouldn’t have had it.

  17. 13 says:

    Id say around 80%
    This bit of homemade fact finding follows
    an entire paragraph of unsubstantiated claims that one might read on the cover of the National Enquirer.
    “Why do cons love guns…………….low iq meathead………brown hoards storming the boarder”
    And then more made up facts from another impeccable source
    ” The conservatives are extolling…….in the belief that we will join the excited states”
    For the most part I believe that those that take the time to post on this blog are honest and forthright. Some however are so outlandish they must only be trolling for a response.
    Mission accomplished

  18. BMCQ says:

    quite interesting Harvey

    As a Low IQ, Knuckle Dragging, Hater of Brown People, and worst of all a Conservative I almost sort of hesitate to comment here but i will give it a go anyway .

    I am quite surprised that DBW did not call Bean out for name calling here .

    I was raised in a house that had four guns, both my parents were Shooters and my mother had some sort of Marksman Status as she was a Sharpshooter .

    My Father actually had a Carry and Conceal Permit, why i did not know and still do not know .

    I shot the guns only three times and for some reason it did not take .

    As a Low IQ Conservative I was 100% Anti Gun even for hunting until about five years ago, I then began to evolve to the point where I now understand and appreciate why some would want guns .

    I was at a Waffle House in Alameda California with 3 other people debating Guns and Politics when the carnage was taking place . there are many differing opinions on guns and ownership .

    I believe Scheer should have left his Position Paper on Gun Ownership to stand, we as Canadians need to debate this subject .

    Much of what Scheer stated is true, Canadians deserve better from the RCMP and Government .

    Canadians need accountability on a lot more than Guns from our Elected Politicians and the Bureaucracy, lets demand just that .

    Guns and Gun Ownership should part of the Federal Election Campaign .

    Let’s keep in mind while the Mass Shootings and Killings were taking place this past weekend there were about 50 People Shot and 8 killed in Chicago which more or less happens every weekend . Chicago has some of the most restrictive Gun Laws in America . Chicago will more than likely experience 500 murders this calendar year .

    Yes, even Rat Infested and Broken Baltimore is on track to see well over 300 murders this year, not to mention so many other cities . Look at Murder Gun and Knife Murders in London and other UK Cities, perhaps we should ask ourselves just who is committing those murders, would that not be an interesting result ?

    Of course do no forget the Wonderful Caribbean festival in Toronto this weekend or the Danforth Killings, I wonder what is going on there ?

    Don’t you always wonder why when a White Gunman kills it is White Supremacy Racism but when someone Non White Kills running through the streets screaming “Allah Akbar” it is Mental Illness ? Perhaps PM Justin could clarify .

    I believe the U.S. and Canada for that matter should limit the number of Ammo Rounds sold, we need to ban Multiple Magazines which can be used to kill dozens if desired , I believe Bump Stocks were already banned, and for sure Government needs to Ban Assault Type Weapons regardless of size and capacity .

    No One needs any kind of Assault Weapon for any purpose .

    I hate to bring some fact into this discussion but PEW Research tells us that about 40% of Gun Owners in the u.S. are Republican and about 20% are Democrat .

    I am not a Bitter, Angry, Abusive, Lonely, Hateful Individual so I cannot simply Spew Out ridiculous opinions and propaganda without at least thinking I might embarrass myself .

    It is interesting that one individual here seems to have absolutely no trouble doing just that, day after day and day after day ..

    We need to discuss the Scheer Paper and we need to ask questions of all People running for Federal Office, let’s know what the various parties believe in .

    I firmly disagree with Scheer on the repeal of Magazine Restrictions and he needs to explain that .

    I do however agree with Scheer when he wants to take absolute power from the RCMP, i believe the rCMP need a very serious re-boot, moral must be very low .

    Imagine being a competent qualified RCMP Male Member knowing that there is now a Glass Ceiling and your Goose is cooked as far as Major appointments are concerned .

    The RCMP also need to be restructured and they require that restructuring and accountability to be fully transparent .

    The RCMP needs a re-do .

    I also agree with Scheer on his Ombudsman point, makes perfect sense .

    Personally I believe all Assault type weapons and Magazines should be recalled and taken out of thef hands of the “Great Unwashed” .

    It is time for a big change .

    Having said all of that if I was a resident of Oakland or many other U.S. Cities I would have a Pistol in the House .

    Go figure .

    Keep in mind that ALL of the Politicians wanting to Ban Guns completely ALL have Security armed better than most small countries and they and their families travel to work, dinner, lunch, school in Government Vehicles with armed security .

    they also have security in their home or around it and they believe they are much more important than you .

  19. Gene The Bean says:

    Wow – that Scientific American article is something. Unfortunately it appears while I throw some word darts at a segment of the population, some in jest and some to point out what some refuse to acknowledge (I’m not a racist but……), what I am saying is essentially factual. That doesnt make me feel any better.

    “So, who is buying all these guns—and why?
    The American citizen most likely to own a gun is a white male—but not just any white guy.
    These are men who are anxious about their ability to protect their families, insecure about their place in the job market, and beset by racial fears. They tend to be less educated. For the most part, they don’t appear to be religious—and, suggests one study, faith seems to reduce their attachment to guns. In fact, stockpiling guns seems to be a symptom of a much deeper crisis in meaning and purpose in their lives. Taken together, these studies describe a population that is struggling to find a new story—one in which they are once again the heroes.”

    So….

    Afraid for them and their family.
    Afraid for their job.
    Afraid of the brown man.

    All regular conservative talking points. We will be hearing versions of these here in Canada ad nauseum till election day. That is all the Cons have – fear. Been saying that for years. So you don’t need to believe me, but a publication like Scientific American is something you need to listen too.

    I read that last sentence of the quote as nothing more than ringing the bell of white privilege. A black man in the WHITE house, brown people everywhere, women in positions of authority, people speaking other languages….. uneducated fearful people with guns – what a combo. All brought to you by todays conservatism.

    I guess what they say is true …. say something often enough and people will take it for the truth.

  20. 13 says:

    Eaf 16
    Another factoid
    If people have guns and are angry they will use them.
    How does that statementa ke any sense what so ever.
    Personally I own a hand gun. It is a single action revolver which once a month I took to an indoor range in coquitlam and practiced my accuracy. Occasionally being a conservative I get angry

    I have never once thought about getting that gunman shooting my lap top.
    Instead I type another post

  21. 13 says:

    eaf “If people are mad at each other and have a gun they will use it”

    Would you care to elaborate on that rather frightening, bold, sweeping, and perhaps baseless statement?

  22. harry lawson says:

    Harvey,

    I could say i am surprised by some of the posters.

    i do agree with BCMQ that the conservatives should let the paper stand.

    the people of Canada deserve a solid debate and action plan re firearms this election cycle.

    i was told by a police officer that every night they come across illegal guns in the lower mainland. not legal guns but illegal guns.

    for me the solution is simple any person in possession of a illegal restricted weapon receives a mandatory jail time, if used in a crime longer jail time no parole. if found in a car and not claimed the car is seized and sold.

    the issue is not legal guns, but illegal guns.

    of course all of this is mostly a unintended consequence of a revolving door weak judicial system. we need to take back our society from the bottom feeders . its all about the unintended consequence.

    (Response: I like your suggestion for how to treat people found with illegal guns … but let’s keep it real: sometimes you don’t even go to jail if you kill someone, while drunk, while speeding …or even if found to have left the scene! h.o)

  23. DBW says:

    After posting four links in response to a question, I was going to sit the rest of this one out, but here we go.

    First, to clarify for BMCQ who said this

    “I am quite surprised that DBW did not call Bean out for name calling here”

    When I said “I don’t think it does any good to demonize people who do enjoy guns and try to make it an us vs them issue” I was actually responding to Bean’s name calling but perhaps too obliquely. Sorry you missed it.

    Gene, I am glad you got some backing for your perception of gun owners/Conservatives from the Scientific American article. However, I hope you read the Guardian article which concludes

    “Understanding why people want to own a gun should be essential to better regulate them, because if you just rely on condemnation and blanket criticism of gun owners, they aren’t going to simply agree and hand over their weapons. They’re more likely to double down and become even more adamant that they’re in the right, making gun control ever more difficult.

    With an issue so serious, this is the last thing anyone needs.”

    The Politico article made much the same point as it tried to explain why people have a fascination with/enjoy/need guns.

    Like most of us I get caught up in the random, horrific mass shootings in the US, a country that is so divided that common ground on something so important as gun legislation is an impossibility. I have pretty much given up on them.

    And I admit that I am ignorant of our Canadian gun laws and just assume that all is well because it seems to be working compared to the States. But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be looking at improvements if possible and using Scheer’s proposals as a starting point is worthwhile.

    Looking forward to reading some more insights.

  24. jay says:

    Strange that no one mentions the fact that one of those shooters was stopped within 30 seconds by the police..using guns. Imagine if a couple or all the people in the walmart were armed. Do you think a guy wearing a t shirt would have been able to walk unhindered shooting as he went. My guess is he would have been down in a similar time.
    Part of the problem is that there are an estimated 300 million guns in the U.S. and who knows how many magazines high capacity or otherwise. At this point the better solution would be to do as Chris Rock once said, make a bullet worth $5000. You can buy a gun all you want but 5k for a bullet would make it hard for people to afford to buy boxes of ammo. But then again, the criminal element still doesn’t care about that.
    The right to self preservation is a natural right. with very few exceptions, all life will fight for its life when push comes to shove. Taking away the rights of the many law abiding citizens due to the actions of the few criminals does not and will never work.

  25. Gene The Bean says:

    Harvey response #22

    I agree there are some needed ‘corrections’ to our ‘justice’ system and wouldn’t have a problem at all with mandatory sentences for ALL gun crimes. Transporting your gun unsafely – boom, night in jail. Accidental discharge, couple of nights free lodging. Threaten someone – see ya in a few years. Guns are no joke and one teeny weenie mistake can cost a life. So many guns in the hands of so many people that are angry (at everything) and afraid (needlessly) is scary.

    Not a fan of more people in jail – big fan of more people getting medical help but that is tempered with do a serious crime – you need to do serious time. I believe that ‘for profit’ law enforcement like you see in Trumpistan is just knee jerk white privilege. Elected judges and sheriffs targeting brown people to fill the jails and prisons privately owned by those who bankrolled the elections of those same judges and sheriffs….. how crazy is that. Can anyone even measure anymore how much that country has fallen?

    Would really like to see an overhaul of our entire criminal justice system to bring it up to date for today’s world. Just debating the “gun issue” is just feeding the conservative dog whistling which even in this country has reached epidemic proportions.

    Even if there isn’t the appetite for big changes, small changes matter. Politics no longer attract the ‘leaders and thinkers’ that built our world. It now attracts shysters, conmen and phonies who crave influence and power without having the smarts or experience to earn it. Lets start with just actually doing small things – aim low to avoid disappointment.

  26. BMCQ says:

    Harry – 22

    Bingo !!

    As Harvey suggests you are onto something, it makes so much to hand down hard sentences to those convicted of holding an Illegal Gun .

    There is a lot more the Courts and Judiciary could do along those lines to create deterrent regarding all crimes but especially Possession oh <guns and the use of Guns while committing any crime .

    What you have put forward should be part of the current Federal Election Campaign, a great start .

    In Vancouver proper and I am sure most other municipalities it is about the same 300 Repeat Prolific Offenders that commit about 80 % of the Crime, think of how much of a difference there would be if Judges handed down realistic Sentences to keep them off the streets .

    I can also guarantee you that each and every Gang Shooter (if they are ever caught) has a long record of Criminal Convictions-and should already be in Prison which in turn could prevent a Shooting .

    Legislation as you suggest needs to be part of the Election Discussion and we need more similar ideas like yours to become part of that Discussion .

  27. e.a.f. says:

    #13, go have a look at the stats in North America for women who are murdered by guns by unhappy boy friends and husbands.

    there has been a mass shooting in the U.S.A. almost every day for the past few months. those people didn’t engage in mass shootings because they were happy. It is reasonable to conclude shooters shoot at other humans because they are angry.

    Now as to your gun ownership. I know a number of people such as yourself and as I wrote earlier, responsible gun owners aren’t the problem and laws which come into being most likely will not have an impact on you or the people I know. We may not agree on much, but I’m quite sure I’ll never, ever see that you shot some one. People ought to have to register their guns and be required to keep them in secured containers. I’m quite sure you do.

    guns come into Canada illegally all the time. It needs to stop. while the police are doing that, they may find some drugs also. the guns and drug thing, seems to go hand in hand. No one in our country needs an AK, whatever. That is very different from a hand gun used for target shooting. Rifles used for hunting are very different from AKs and automatic fire things. there is no need for those types of weapons.

    Did have to laugh about Scheer saying he hit a deer at 400 m his first time out. Those of us who have ever shot a gun/rifle certainly didn’t have that type of score the first time out. I had trouble shooting a target on a barn, with a hand gun. That is why some people ought never to have guns, they can’t shoot straight.

  28. 13 says:

    eaf @27

    Your right I am a responsible gun owner. You on the other hand are a criminal. Shooting a handgun at a barn is illegal.

  29. BMCQ says:

    Machiavelli – 5

    Go and do your own investigation into Scheers shooting abilities, then come back and let us know what you have learned .

    Take your time, I am a very patient person .

    Perhaps we will hear more from Canadian PM, May, and perhaps even soon to be Fourth Place Finisher and NDP Leader Singh on their Fire Arms Platform .

    Tick Tock Mr. Singh and PM Justin, Tick Tock !

    I am NOW somewhat critical of the RCMP but I have always respected the RCMP and Police right across Canada .

    What a shame that so many Police Forces right across the country have been Neutered by PC SJW Politicians, as a country we are not being served well .

    Having said that I believe Canadians should hear from current and retired Senior Police and their Associations on their opinions about anything to do with all types of Fire Arms, I believe it would be of great benefit to Canadians before we vote .

  30. 13 says:

    bean @ 19
    “while I throw word darts…..some in jest”
    Just about textbook troll .

  31. e.a.f. says:

    #13, it was in the very early 1970s and the farm was one of those deserted items on almost deserted Gulf Islands. Yes, it would have been illegal, but back in those days, things were a tad different in some areas in B.C. Like the Judge, who had a well known bootlegger before him in the 1960s. the Judge asked the Bootlegger how much he charged per bottle. The Bootlegger replied a 50 cents over liquor store prices. Judge, that’s more than my bootlegger charges me, case dismissed.
    Back in those days there were still remittance men living in the Gulf Islands, from England.

  32. Don says:

    Interesting no one has answered the question I raised @ 13. And in addition to no mass shootings there is no gun violence. Why?

  33. BMCQ says:

    Don – 32

    I cannot necessarily give you a definitive answer to your question and point and I will not attempt to lie to you as some might, especially one very hateful, lonely, bitter, and delusional “Leftist” might . Why confuse any issue with the truth ?

    I will however offer an opinion or two and attach one or two pieces that you and perhaps others might find of interest .

    I cannot pass opinion on the publication/author but having read them I find them quite credible .

    https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2/

    No opinion on this either, as a matter of fact I might disagree with some of this but it is something to consider .

    https://www.quora.com/Why-aren-t-there-mass-shootings-in-Switzerland-despite-having-a-gun-culture-like-the-US

    in looking at this I was amused to see where some claim that Switzerland (like other EU Nations) is considered to be the “Happiest Place on earth” .

    I travel a lot and was again recently in Zurich, Paris, Bordeaux, Saintes, Amsterdam, London, Canterbury, Frankfurt, Berlin, many different cities and towns in Greece, and Israel .

    To be honest with you I have never seen a more miserable looking populations than those in France, Germany, Switzerland, The Netherlands, and any other Northern EU Nation .

    Yes it is a gross generalization but Smiles are few and far between .

    Southern Europe and Israel along with the UK are a totally different story, they embrace life .

    When was the last time you saw Merkel, Lofven, Junker, Tusk, or any other Northern EU Nation Leader crack a smile ?

    I am sure there is more on he Swiss Gun Ownership story but the two stories attached do offer some ideas .

    Again, how does Chicago have some of the tightest Gun Regulation in the U.S. and yet at the same time have thousands shot each year while at the same time 700 actually Killed by Guns ?

    This subject is obviously on the mind of many Canadians and we need more public discussion and the question is this, will we see and hear enough about Guns and Ammo between now and the October Election ?

    The Banning or Assault Rifles (we need a definition) many or all Automatic and Semi Automatic Weapons along with High Capacity Ammo Clips should not be a problem to address in the current election cycle and it should be front and centre .

    Why would anyone require any kind of Rifle that is any more automatic than a single bolt action ?

    To me a skillful Hunter should be able to hunt any Game with a Single Bolt Action Rifle, it takes more skill and therefore it is a better test of that Hunters Skill Set .

    Perhaps Machiavelli can also research this when he is investigating the shooting skill of Andrew Scheer .

    I await that report as well .

    I hope you get something out of the two pieces Don, frankly I believe the biggest reason the Swiss do not have a lot of Gun Violence is Cultural . Perhaps not all of the reason but a huge part of it .

    Oh yes and before I forget .

    It appears that about 60% of the Swiss Population are of Centre/Centre Right Political Ideology, I am not quite sure if they are ALL Low IQ, Ignorant, Moronic, Poorly Educated, Haters of Brown People, and the rest but just the same they do have a very low number of Violent Gun Crimes over the many decades since the population became armed .

    How would one explain that ?

    (Response: Your reference to the dour nature of northern Europeans gave me a laugh: sent the excerpt to a friend of mine from Norway, who got out of there to live in the US. LOL! I certainly also noticed less of an OUTWARD joi de vivre in the nations you mention than I have found in Italy, Portugal, Spain … but they certainly operate more efficiently and are easier to navigate. LOL! h.o)

  34. DBW says:

    Don at 13 and 32. I assumed that your question was rhetorical and that you knew the answer but just in case…

    https://www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2

    Just how my brain works but I was wondering why the problem of gun violence especially horrific mass shootings seems more American than most other countries. So I googled folk heroes. Britain has King Arthur and Robin Hood and France has Joan of Arc, etc. but the listing for the US included Davy Crockett and George Custer and Bonnie and Clyde and Wyatt Earp etc. All gun toting. The original settlers had guns. The US was born out of a lengthy Revolutionary War whose founders enshrined gun ownership in the constitution. They had slavery whose owners used guns to oversee their slaves and weren’t afraid to use them. They settled the west by shooting Native Americans. They have had a mandatory draft and fought in unpopular wars like Vietnam and Iraq. Guns are in their DNA.

    To be fair, though most of the Americas, except for Canada have a problem with gun violence.

    I found this article interesting.

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/10/2/16399418/us-gun-violence-statistics-maps-charts

    Perhaps I am off topic here, Harvey but sometimes we (well I any) get caught up with the elephant to the south.

    To get back on track and I don’t have any answers here.

    1. Are we satisfied with Canada’s current gun laws. Toronto wants stricter hand gun legislation But a lot of the handguns in Toronto especially those used in crimes are smuggled from the US. Criminal will always find a way to get guns. Do we need stricter laws as compared to stricter enforcement of current ones.

    2. Scheer’s proposals seem to be more interested in helping legal gun owners. Will these proposals do that without weakening our current legislation which for the most part seems to be working?

    And here I thought I was going to sit this one out.

    (Response: Glad you didn’t sit this one out! 🙂 Valuable information. As for your comment “Criminal will always find a way to get guns.” …you are correct. However, in Canada, the criminals tend to use their guns on each other … rarely do we see armed muggings or robberies with shootings. The greater danger to ordinary citizens from guns in Canada is actually more likely to come from a mentally disturbed individual or radicalized terrorist … and we should support EVERY effort to make it more difficult for those individuals to obtain arms … especially in Canada … not, as Scheer’s policy would do, loosen current restrictions/controls. h.o.)

  35. Gene The Bean says:

    Don, as you know, Switzerland is a true democracy and has had centre-left socially responsible governments forever. The Swiss are highly educated and I have found them to be the exact opposite of todays conservatives.

    They care about others, they look after those that need a hand up, they share, they are friendly, are not afraid, they welcome and embrace their diverse culture and they have high moral standards.

    What else could it be?

  36. BMCQ says:

    Here is some interesting information about the Dayton Ohio Shooter, the individual that actually shot and killed his own sister and her boyfriend .

    Surely to goodness this information cannot be factual can it ?

    All of this and on top of that an Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders Supporter .

    Tell me it is NOT TRUE !!

    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/dayton-shooter-reportedly-supported-gun-control-elizabeth-warren-and-socialism

    https://thecount.com/2019/08/04/connor-betts-antifa-member-bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-supporter/

    How in the world could Global, CBC, CTV, ABC, NBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NYT, L.A. Times, BBC, and so many more not report this ?

    It could not be that the FACTS to this Despicable Shooting and Killing Spree might not fit their narrative could it ?

    Nah, no one in Media would do that would they ?

    Then there is this

    https://nypost.com/2019/08/06/dayton-shooter-may-be-antifas-first-mass-killer/

    Apparently Betts was in possession of at least one 100 Round Drum Clip which essentially makes an AR more like a Machine Gun .

    It is amazing that Police were able to take him down as quickly as they did !!

    Each and every Family Member of those not killed at the scene of the Massacre owe the Dayton Police a Huge Salute of Gratitude, I wonder how many of us could have stepped into the “Line of Fire” like they did ?

    I am convinced that those Media Outlets mentioned will all cover this story sometime late on Sunday Evening .

  37. e.a.f. says:

    Don, I’d suggest the lack of mass shootings in Switzerland has to do with the lack of other social problems in the country. Switzerland doesn’t have the mass of under employed, under whatever is wrong in society. Switzerland has lots of employment, great schools, etc. Switzerland and a few other countries which don’t have much in the way of mass shootings are what I call socially responsible countries. It makes a difference if almost everyone is feed, educated, housed, etc.

    Switzerland doesn’t have much in the way of regulations regarding guns, but it does have a lot of regulations regarding ammunition. I read an article or it may have been a mini doc. on t.v. where some one was attending a large gun competiton in Switzerland. Everyone, was casually caring their rifles around. Baby in one arm, gun in the other, but not one gun was loaded. that was the point of the article, their laws regulate ammunition, where it can be, how its stored, etc.

    You don’t see a lot of mass shootings in Andora or Luxumberg, or Monacco. they’re small rich countries, which good policing and social services and ever one is perhaps only separated by a degree or so. Makes a difference, if most people are content. I think that makes a huge difference, how content is the population

    BCMQ, you may not understand the culture in these northern European countries, you’ve just travelling through. YOU may not be able to read faces. We coming from the Netherlands and family still going there regularly, and cousins still visiting and communicating, they’re just fine. they aren’t miserable.
    Don’t know about the other countries, but I don’t see masses of them trying to exit stage left or right either.

  38. BMCQ says:

    eaf – 37

    You are joking correct ?

    AS my Swedish Mother (Forsgren) and Her EIGHT Siblings would sometimes say to me . GALEN !! No But Yeesus !!!

    I strongly suggest you read Harvey’s reply to me, perhaps that might give you a bit of a clue .

    I shake my head, friends and relatives of mine that live in the EU and follow this Blog will fall right off their Bar Stools when they read your comments !!!

    I will be in Amsterdam at the RAI for the 14th time this November, I will keep an eye out for your relatives .

    Desperately attempting to bring myself back to earth here I must point out that there are other world countries that have similar problems .

    https://www.voanews.com/usa/mass-shootings-around-world

    One Mass Shooting with any number of people killed is one too many so we must therefore do whatever we can to encourage Politicians of any Brand to lay their cards on the table and show us what their policies are on Guns and Ammo .

    Surely there must a chance to provide Canadians with Gun Laws that work for everyone, how can it be that difficult ?

    Phew , That was a Head Shaker .

    (Response; This was fun for a comment …and a brief exchange ..but it’s now sliding off topic. Please. h.o)

  39. BMCQ says:

    Let me start off by stating that I have and had family members that are/were members of several Police Forces right across Canada .
    Let me also state that my lovely Wife has Cree Blood Proudly flowing through her veins and when growing up in Alberta her family Fostered scores of First Nations Children . Her family including a goal of four Girls are very proud of the fact their family was sought out as Foster Parents because her Father spoke the fluent Cree Language .
    You can choose to “Spin” this any you choose but there is no way in the world ANY Democracy should award any amount of Money simply on any persons say so regardless of their gender or circumstance . That act is most i Democratic and it is against Canadian Values and the Rule of Law .
    FYI there are Sealed Statements where several RCMP are named on these claims and there is absolutely NO Hard Evidence to substantiate those claims in many/most cases . Those Sealed Records May be subject to Leaks or worse, how would you like a family member exposed on hear say and no evidence ?
    These disgusting Pay Outs Based simply on Allegations are incomprehensible and a horrible stain on the Canadian Justice System and it sickens me .
    As to your old Lawyer friend ?
    I doubt very much that he is/was much of a Lawyer, I know many and my own Lawyer is a QC and none thst I know would make a statement anything close to what you say .
    Again, “Spin” this as you will hut once again this disgusting Pay Out to women simply making allegations is nothing less than Canadian PM Justin once again attempting to endear himself to certain groups of Canadian Voters and I am embarrassed for any honest Canadians that recognize this farce for what it is .
    As to the rest of you that choose to deflect, ignore the truth and facts while at the same time actually choosing to allow a whole National Police Force to be discredited ?
    Fill your boots, you are beyond understanding the truth and you are beyond redemption .

  40. Eldon says:

    As an undecided voter considering Andrew Scheer as an option, you’ve rattled me. I wish someone would confront him with this statement and find out if he still feels this way.

    (Response: CBC reported this morning (Sunday) that gun control laws will likely be an election issue this Fall … so once the Press Releases start to fly … that’s when the “national” media will no doubt be all over the issue. h.o)

  41. 13 says:

    On the list of important issues to evaluate how an undecided voter would vote I hope that gun control would not crack the top 10.
    Government spending, taxes (especially carbon, slush funding every problem to avoid any real consequences for poor leadership, foreign affairs especially with China, All of these issues will impact most Canadians more than stricter gun control. The debate should be centered on stricter punishment for crimes commuted with a gun.

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