BC/Canada MUST Suspend AstraZeneca Vaccine Until PROVEN Safe!

Every time BC Health Minister Adrian Dix and Health Officer Dr Bonnie Henry hold a media briefing on the latest Covid numbers, they both solemnly express condolences to the families and friends of the latest victims who have died from the virus.

If they are truly sincere, and not just delivering platitudes and political rhetoric, they’ll SUSPEND any use of the AstraZeneca vaccine for anyone … until we know it is TOTALLY safe!!

Sunday, Ireland joined the growing list of countries that have done exactly that. The move came after Norway reported FOUR MORE incidents of “serious blood clotting in adults after taking the vaccine”, according to CTV News.

(You can read the entire report here: http://of serious blood clotting in adults after taking the vaccine.

The first reports of people developing blood clots (which could prove fatal) came last week. Some health officials and company spokespersons suggested it COULD be just a coincidence or it COULD be a problem with one batch of the vaccine.

And Canadian “leaders” and health officials were quick to point out that Canada’s use and pending arrivals of additional AZ supply would be coming from India not Europe, where the problems arose.

Then came word the clotting problems had arisen after use of DIFFERENT batches from DIFFERENT AstraZeneca plants in Europe … so there could indeed be a much more serious problem.

So last week, Denmark, Iceland, Norway, Spain, Estonia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Italy, Latvia and Finland suspended use of AstraZeneca until the truth is known.

Even though AstraZeneca officials insist there is “no evidence” of a link between their vaccine and the blood clotting problems. https://globalnews.ca/news/7695938/astrazeneca-blood-clots-vaccine/.

BC and Canada MUST not take chances!

Human lives may literally be at stake.

Public safety is much more important than pushing up the numbers of those vaccinated.

Until it can independently and scientifically/clinically be PROVEN there is no link between the clotting and the vaccine, BC and Canada MUST suspend the use of AstraZeneca!

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: Follow @harveyoberfeld on Twitter to get free First Alerts of all new postings on this BC-based Blog.)

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59 Responses to BC/Canada MUST Suspend AstraZeneca Vaccine Until PROVEN Safe!

  1. 13 says:

    This should be a no brainer. Yes sir even Horgan Dix etal can score a few points making a big production of the soon to expire vaccine being returned to sender.

    Anything less than immediate action by the NDP and Federal Liberals will show just how little they really care about the great unwashed.

    (Response: Many people already don’t want to take ANY vaccine because they fear the politicians/health officials are treating the people like guinea pigs. Now that SEVERAL nations have suspended use of AZ until they are convinced beyond doubt it’s safe, so should BC and Canada!! To continue giving any vaccine under a cloud to the citizenry makes not only the vaccine more suspect, but also the politicians and health officials going along with it. h.o)

  2. BMCQ says:

    I believe what you have outlined in your essay just makes good common sense, the AZ Vaccine should be set aside while more testing is completed and major Health Agencies in the UK, the EU, and the U.S. sign off on the safety of AZ, we cannot afford to take the risk with anyone .

    I am sure there will be clarity along with an explanation and even more information on the changes required within a very short period of time, perhaps within days . Science may show us that it may be recommended to combine the AZ Jab with Blood Thinners for many and at the same time there may be some that will not require any additional medication .

    The delay of the use of AZ Vaccines will not be a problem in the UK and thebU.S.mas they will soon be “Swimming in Vaccines” but in countries like Canada and others who are lagging far behind in acquiring vaccinations decisions will need to be made . That then begs another question, “Who wants to take the chance with the AZ Jab ?

    Honestly I do not think the population in general should be allowed to make their own choice, better to err on the side of caution, any government that does not proceed with caution could very well leave them open to law suits if people begin to drop off from the affects of Blood Clots after getting an AZ Jab .

    Better Safe than Sorry .

    Having said all of that I feel that we need to choose a handful of countries like the U.S. the UK, Switzerland, and one or two more that meet a set standard like an ISO where the scientific testing and conclusions arrived at can be used by other countries like Canada who are not necessarily equipped to test and there may be a timeline that delays can mean deaths .

    The W.H.O. Needs to become independent of China and revorganized and re structured, the World need a standardized independent testing model that can be centralized, the next pandemic we have foisted on us from China or anywhere else may be much more deadly and may be transmitted so very much easier we need to be ready and we need to be able to streamline testing protocols by centralizing those tests for consistency and safety .

    We will have no time and no room for error and we will have no time to dither the next time .

    (Response: Hard to believe it’s only two weeks ago that I wrote “Since when did it become ethical … or legal … to do medical experiments using human beings who did NOT volunteer for it?” In that blog, I was questioning the political/health officers’ decisions across Canada to delay the second dose for four months, instead of the pre-scribed 21 to 28 days… without ANY clinical scientific trials proving that’s a safe move! Now there are concerns that the AZ vaccine has caused clots in several people who agreed to take it. WHY would they keep giving it to us in BC, Canada or anywhere, knowing this??? The AZ should be stopped until science tells us unequivocally it’s safe! h.o)

  3. Gilbert says:

    There are too many questions about the Astrazeneca vaccine. With all the reports surrounding its use, who won’t be nervous about taking it? We need to put people first, not money or the number of people vaccinated. It’s clear that the Astrazeneca vaccine must be suspended.

    (Response: I’ll leave it to the “working” press (I’m retired) to collate a FULL list of nations that have suspended use of AZ until the full facts are SCIENTIFICALLY known regarding blood clots (and any other worries) and those nations that are still using it. But my own cursory look at news coverage elsewhere seems to indicate the suspensions are mostly among “Western” nations, while the countries still using it seem to be largely in Asia, Africa and South America. Maybe they are more desperate …can’t get Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson and Johnson? Or their leaders have a different view of their own people? h.o)

  4. 13 says:

    And one other thing. I hope that at least a few of Harveys journalistic brothers and sisters that are being paid manage to report on this very story. Hey they might even ASK A HARD QUESTION instead of waiting for the NDP to send them copy to read on the news.

    (Response: Should be interesting to watch Trudeau, Dix and Henry Monday: they will either announce Yes, better to suspend use of AZ like many other nations until we know scientifically and clinically EXACTLY what is going on with it … or will BC/Canada join those countries willing to use their citizens as guinea pigs, maybe even willing to sacrifice some for what they believe is the greater good? h.o)

  5. Harry Lawson says:

    Harvey,

    Iread the last several post and posters with great interest since lisa went into a hospice / care home ,i have been moving.

    there are many unanswered questions such as ,

    what role does genetics play?

    what role does DNA play?

    what role does politics play ?

    what role does public opinion play?

    basically the human race race has become a petri dish of a experiment, is this population control ?

    we must remember medicine is not necessarily a science but a practice

    (Response: Hope Lisa is more comfortable in hospice. Many of the things you mention may indeed affect illnesses, treatments, medicines. But I don’t see the Covid vaccine as population control in ANY way: I do believe in vaccines and really appreciate the efforts of doctors, researchers, volunteer patients, health officials and even pharmaceutical companies in helping society deal with all kinds of serious issues. As long as its based on ethical, scientific principles and is proven safe/effective before being administered to the public. But when politicians get involved, I worry that other priorities, interests and considerations may interfere with everything else I’ve already mentioned. I trust PROVEN science before I trust them … or their hired help. h.o)

  6. Richard Skelly says:

    Oh, but Harvey, this is Canada! Home of the Tainted Blood Scandal. Where authorities insisted on using up suspected dodgy blood products rather than toss them in the trash. That waste not/want not view resulting in scads of unsuspecting hemophiliacs and other blood-products recipients developing AIDS and hepatitis, and often dying from those diseases.

    So it may be a slam dunk for Trudeau and many obliging premiers to ignore the warning signals and welcome the sudden availability of so much Astra Zeneca/Oxford University vaccines as a way to meet timetable goals. Using contract secrecy to deny us the right to know what particular type of vaccine we are getting. With Canadians, much like ‘Mikey’ in that long-ago cheese commercial, being expected to accept and “like it.”

    (Response: Thanks! I had forgotten about that: 30 years ago … but still contains lessons for governments, and every citizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Commission_of_Inquiry_on_the_Blood_System_in_Canada. But Canada does not appear to be ready to follow the growing list of European countries suspending AZ until further examination is done. Trudeau said today (Monday) people should take whatever vaccine is offered to them. Quebec Premier Francois Legault joined him in saying AZ is safe. I’d wait for scientists/clinical researchers to say that, before distributing any more on the word of politicians. h.o)

  7. D.M. Johnston says:

    I agree that the government should be very careful at this point with Astra Zeneca and wait for more concise information.

    The following from the BBC may prove helpful.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/health-55302595

    Let us be careful.

    (Response: Exactly: caution is the key. Especially with millions of doses of other vaccines … with no reported serious concerns about clotting etc … now coming in much greater numbers. But politicians would no doubt love to be able to boast the highest vaccinated numbers they can muster … so I have concerns! h.o)

  8. nonconfidencevote says:

    “I worry that other priorities, interests and considerations may interfere with everything else I’ve already mentioned. ”

    +++

    I dont trust politicians that are in an election year to have my best interests at heart.
    I dont trust pharmaceutical companies that have shareholders best interests at heart.
    I dont trust the media who receive advertising revenue from the govt/industry P.R. Depts.

    Trust.
    So hard to earn.
    So easy to lose.

    (Response: Unfortunately, the latest news on AZ bears out the concerns you have. Sunday, the Netherlands added itself to the list of nations suspending the use of AZ pending investigation; but today (Monday) a group of scientists in the UK, where AZ was developed in conjunction with Oxford University, said it is safe … no PROVEN link to clots, and the number of clots reported is less than usual. Here’s that piece: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9362855/AstraZenecas-Covid-jab-NOT-linked-blood-clots-scientists-say.html. I believe when it comes to administering medications, vaccines into people, better to err on the side of caution …until anything is clinically and scientifically proved safe. I still remember thalidomide! h.o)

  9. helena handcart says:

    @13.
    This is an important report that emphasizes the importance , to cancer patients, of getting the second dose of Pfizer vaccine within the recommended time frame.
    https://www.kcl.ac.uk/news/delaying-second-vaccine-dose-cancer-patients-vulnerable-virus

    (Response: Exactly. I have always been concerned about NOT following the pre-scribed dosages and timing exactly as determined in the clinical/scientific research/studies…. and wrote about it: http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/bc-to-use-vaccine-recipients-for-involuntary-medical-experiment/. I want everyone to get a safe vaccine as quickly as possible, but I am willing to wait for mine a bit longer, if that would allow second doses to be administered as originally pre-scribed. h.o)

  10. Heliworld says:

    This just gets more interesting as Canada drops lower and lower in the numbers of injections of “Vaccines” to beat this virus. All to help “Build back better”, using ready to expire Astra Zenica doses, and perhaps tainted as well. We are also extending the time between shots which goes against all the manufacturers technical guides.

    So why is this happening? Well it all depends on who you listen to and how much you believe. If you are hearing it from MSM or any Politician elected or appointed, you can take confidence that whatever they are telling you it needs to be taken with a pound of salt.

    I saw a video from a group of Canadian doctors explaining the Covid virus response and what we are being told in relation to reality. It seems that in this new order that speaking truth that may make politicians look like the liars they are, cancelled the video. So much for following the science.

    It won’t matter though at the end of all this as T2 will just say he is sorry for his mistakes and go on to be elected in the spring election.

    So complaining about all these issues and there are many, doesn’t seem to help and in my mind I can not do nothing to change what is happening. But what I can do is ensure that I am healthy which at this time would be to wait until I feel safe and confident in taking part of the biggest human drug test ever. And the way things are rolling out that may be never. I am 64 and at a .12 death rate for that age group, I am not worried.

    This is the video on YouTube but it has been banned, Why?

    https://www.infowars.com/posts/banned-on-youtube-canadian-doctors-speak-out-the-facts-about-covid/

    (Response: YouTube has removed a number of videos it found deceptive, false and/or misleading: This from the BBC … https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-54541517. And CTV too:
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/youtube-to-remove-covid-19-vaccine-misinformation-1.5145067.

    Personally, I believe in vaccines … and have no problem taking one found to be safe. My only caveat is that, at the first sign of problems, use should be suspended pending clear scientific examination and determination. And I don’t trust politicians and local health authorities to make that decision, in the face of world-wide doubts. h.o)

  11. G. Barry Stewart says:

    “Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt and Disinformation.” FUDD, for short. Donald Trump was a master at it. It is isn’t a new phenomena, but the internet and social media certainly are fertile grounds for FUDD.

    One of the early things we learned about COVID was how it — most definitely — was causing blood clots and strokes, even in healthy younger adults.

    Blood clots also occur in the general population without any medical cause (or due to other drugs), so we have multiple reasons why any person could have experienced blood clotting — before or after getting a jab.

    Those who have a subscription to the New York Times (I don’t) may read about a rare blood disorder which popped up after vaccinations in the USA.

    KHN’s Morning Briefing shared parts of the article: “The New York Times: A Few Covid Vaccine Recipients Developed A Rare Blood Disorder
    One day after receiving her first dose of ______’s Covid vaccine, Luz Legaspi, 72, woke up with bruises on her arms and legs, and blisters that bled inside her mouth. She was hospitalized in New York City that day, Jan. 19, with a severe case of immune thrombocytopenia — a lack of platelets, a blood component essential for clotting. The same condition led to the death in January of Dr. Gregory Michael, 56, an obstetrician in Miami Beach whose symptoms appeared three days after he received the _______ vaccine. Treatments failed to restore his platelets, and after two weeks in the hospital he died from a brain hemorrhage. It is not known whether this blood disorder is related to the Covid vaccines. (Grady, 2/8)”

    I left the blanks in there, for readers to assume “AZ Vaccine.” In fact, the first case involved Moderna and the second, Pfizer.

    Meanwhile, deaths and hospitalizations are sloping downward in the USA as the vaccine roll-out takes effect… and “Pro-life” Republicans, as a group, are least-willing to roll up their sleeves for these life-saving vaccines. FUDD keeps them from stepping up.

    I’ve got to think that part of the AZ hesitancy is because it didn’t get the same high marks for efficacy in pre-release research… people are looking for further evidence to turn up their noses at it.

    Scene from the Titanic:

    “The ship is going down! Line up here for your lifejackets!”

    “What brand are they?”

    “Here’s the tag… Acme.”

    “Got any designer brands? And I’ll want to know when it was made and by whom.”

    After writing this, I read Harvey’s Daily Mail link and it very clearly shows how the fear of the AZ vaccine is unwarranted. In fact, it’s dangerous, if FUDD keeps people from getting the jab and COVID keeps picking people off. The U.K. and the EU, combined, are hovering around 900,000 COVID deaths since the outset.

    (Response: Of course, your Titanic lifejacket attempt can be easily dismissed: there ARE other lifejackets, millions of them … Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson and Johnson … that (so far) have NO mounting numbers of adverse reactions, so why take one with a hole in it! That’s the issue: there ARE alternatives. I hope AZ gets cleared by the scientists and clinical research professionals as safe, BUT why or why would you or anyone want to keep giving it to people when there ARE rising cases and doubts, with safer alternatives close by??? Part of the problem is we are an impatient society that should be marveling at HOW FAST these vaccines were developed … less than a year, as opposed to previous vaccines that took several years. I get why some politicians just want to get the numbers up NOW: but I’ll continue to trust scientists and actual clinical study conclusions reached by research over verbal reassurances from those protected from any consequences by legislation their own predecessors put in place. h.o)

  12. r says:

    And Germany and France?

    (Response: Yes… just hours ago France and Germany joined the others in suspending use of AZ: https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/germany-france-suspend-use-of-astrazeneca-vaccine-1.5347536. They all seem to know something Trudeau, Horgan and the other premiers in Canada don’t. h.o)

  13. BMCQ says:

    Governments and Health Authorities need to do their due diligence as well as ensure roll outs are done as quickly as possible and they must also ensure that the vaccines of any and all brands are safe .

    FUDD you say ? let’s try to be a little honest here, we should not forget that Warp Speed was launched by POTUS Trump the Bad Orange Man and his GOP Political Party . As POTUS Obama once stated, “Facts Do Matter’ .

    The vaccines were developed/created in less than a year, something unheard of before, in the past the worlds arms could have been kept waiting for up to 10 years, just how would any of us liked that “Lockdown” ?

    Unfortunately we may have many hiccups before we fight our way through this whole mess, Governments world wide must do their job but we cannot put politics ahead of science. Honestly I am quite sure that many other vaccines we have used for decades may still have side affects, yet at the same time I would not want anyone to experience blood clots as with the AZ Vaccine even if the odds are small of that negative reaction, who wants to see any loved one be the person that falls into that small number ?

    Then we also need to somehow not discourage any of us getting a proven vaccine if the jabs are found to be safe and effective, conspiracies are everywhere, yet we must also be sure that we do everything possible to begin to reach herd immunity .

    The current situation with the AZ Blood Clot problem will just breed contempt and distrust not only for AZ but for any or all of the others .

    Then the question becomes can any government lead on this and can they gain the trust of a very high percentage of the population in general ?

    Think about the countries that are now faced with literally no option but Astra Zeneca, how confident should those populations feel ? What would you do ?

    Personally I agree with Harvey, I would more than likely choose to wait until the Pfizer or any other was available within the time frame outlined by the manufacture, I would not want that decision left up to any politician attempting to worm his/her way into winning an uh election .

    This whole thing of the vaccines being politicized is beginning to get me angry .

    Once again, it appears that media are only working part time and they are not demanding answers to the questions they should be asking .

    Then there is this, with a fairly high number of the AZ being close to becoming stale dated in a very short time what do the government and health authorities do ?

    The situation Canadians NOW find themselves in makes it much a much more serious charge that our Canadian Federal Government and the PM dithered, delayed, and dilly dallied, in securing any number of different Vaccines for distribution right across the country . Canadians, because of the Prime Minsters incompetence and foolishness are now in danger of being left unprotected because they are not vaccinated and if more delays are caused by the perceived AZ Blood Clotting problem in some it only means more exposure to Covid – 19 .

    Only yesterday I stated that I was feeling more positive, that can change in a hurry .

    It is fine to be positive but we need all of the facts before we can actually be hopeful .

    How do we in Canada manage to get so many mediocre (at best) people elected to Municipal, Provincial, and Federal Government ?

    .

  14. Marge says:

    Guess Trudeau didn’t do what he should have even if multiple European countries are bailing on AZ (probably because we are so far behind the eight ball when it comes to vaccinations and if just a few people get blood clots, who cares):

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/trudeau-offers-reassurance-on-astrazeneca-safety-as-european-countries-suspend-use/ar-BB1eBYzR?li=AAggNb9#comments

    (Response: I’m not surprised: Trudeau (and the premiers) want those jabs in the arms. Maybe they believe the risk of health problems for “the few” are worth “the benefit” to the many. Wouldn’t be the first time in history political leaders have sacrificed people for what they believe is the “greater good”. Personally I admire more the leaders who have suspended use of AZ until the full scientific/clinical truth is known. h.o)

  15. 13 says:

    Pretty sure Tuudeau was putting his vaccine eggs in the astra barrel. Hes been caught short of vaccine and hes likely willing to kill a few Canadians to keep from admitting his errors. Horgan Dix and Henry will all fall in line and help Tudeau pass on the unsafe to their lab rats

  16. John's Aghast says:

    Good news Harvey. Vaccinations restarted here (Population +/- 100,000) and I heard on the radio some 408 people received the jab. At that rate it’d take 27 years to get the FIRST jab. Of course, there are many jab centers throughout the Province, so its not as dire as that. Anyway, my registration date moved up from the 22nd to the 18th or 19th.
    I understood that BC was only using Pfizer and/or Moderna at this time, but reliable news is scarce out here in the hinterland. I’ve been isolating for 50 weeks now so a couple more won’t really matter!

    (Response: More good news for you: the number of doses arriving in Canada are supposed to increase by millions very soon, so getting that first jab should go fairly smoothly … IF people can get through to get appointments. Pfizer and Moderna (both my choices) are still the most prevalent, but Astra Zeneca (which I already said I would NOT take even BEFORE the blood clot arose) is also being distributed in BC and other provinces to those willing to take it. h.o)

  17. BMCQ says:

    I was busy at work yesterday so I did not make a concerted effort to seek out a huge number of opinions from so called Health Experts such as Epidemiologists, Doctors, etc but I heard 5 of them interviewed on the radio and tv who stated opinions on potential problems with Blood Clots after a shot of Astra Zeneca, they all basically said the concerns Shown by different EU Nations and others were basically a “Nothing Burger” and the odds of clotting were absolutely nothing to worry about .

    The handful of opinions I heard from well qualified people may very prove to be true, there may be no difference in incidents of clotting than in so called normal people but countries have made decisions and in countries like Canada who still offer AZ individuals have decided to forego the AZ Jab, I would be one of those at this time, and that was before the news of clotting problems . I would wait .

    Science may son show us that the AZ is safe, it could very well prove to be true once we have more documented testing and science days and weeks from now but in the meantime there will be great resistance to AZ with over 20 Nations setting AZ aside for now populations in those countries will have no choice, they may be forced to do without any jabs as other brands are not available and AZ is locked away .

    That tells me that the world starting with those nations banning AZ and doing without any vaccine at all could be facing a potential disaster, without at least one initial shot of anything the variants DNA RNA could mutate and a new variant that is much more difficult to control and that new mutation could be more resistant to the known vaccines, that new mutation could then spread like the plague did and if that were to happen in less developed countries we could see transmission beyond belief .

    (Edited for length)

    How can Canadian and other nations be so comfortable with AZ and so many others say in the EU reject AZ outright, could politics be at play in nations on either side of this ?
    We should all be aware that the DU is very angry at the Now Free UK over the wise and justified BREXIT decision and the EU do everything they can to attack the UK, could politics play a roll in the rejection of the UK developed Oxford AZ Vaccine ? One wonders . Many EU Politicians are Bitter Whack Jobs with warped ideologies and I would put nothing passed them but people world wide need hard science on the clotting problem and we need it now . Show us the facts and explain yourselves however you fall on the AZ Vaccine .

    Then of course we have countries like Canada who might be recommending AZ as safe because we are behind in the roll out and Government may not be confident in more Pfizer, Modena, J &J or other vaccines arriving any time soon, an unreliable supply could leave VOTERS dissatisfied with a Government who may soon be seeking re election or that same Federal Government and the Provinces see “Lockdown Fatigue” and they are desperate to not fall more behind in jab numbers . Yes the numbers of first jabs are increasing but can we depend on that, are governments being truthful ? Either way the choices are not positive and not clear .

    (Edited for length.)

    (Response: Sweden has just announced it will stop using AZ. But Canada’s Advisory Committee on Immunizations said today it’s only safe, but reversed its earlier decision less than a month ago and says its ok to give it to seniors over 65. What the hell is going on! It’s beginning to look very political to me … too many diverse varied actions, inactions, rulings and recommendations for something that is supposedly ruled by SCIENCE and CLINICAL RESEARCH/TRIALS .. not something that should at all happen when it comes to governments telling populations to inject anything inside them. h.o)

  18. 13 says:

    Even our BC based health authorities told seniors they could not have the astra zenaca if they were over 65 because there was inadequate testing done on seniors. Mind you that was BEFORE Trudeaus contracted vaccine deliveries became fairy tales. Now that the supply of pfizer and moderna are drying up I wonder if in Rupert they are sneaking the astra vaccine into seniors arms. If the NDP are willing to roll the dice with blood clots why worry about a lack of age based testing.
    The other obvious problem is the NDPs media outlets Global CBC etc will not even send a reporter to ask Horgan Dix Henry questions about astras being banned all over the planet.
    If I ever get the green light from my oncologist to get the jab I guarantee it wont be the astra brand. Im already being treated for a blood clot, Im over 65 I am somewhat informed. 3Strikes the Astra is out.
    Breaking news G Mac just reported that Astra is now okay for seniors over 65. Good God Trudeau has loyal and well trained provincial leaders.
    As BMCQ would say ” you cant make this stuff up”
    I wonder what happens when the patient sitting in the vaccination facility demands to know what brand of vax he/she is about to receive. Harvey may I suggest that you have a friend come along and when you ask and are told to mind your own business you can make a video and sell it to a news organization.

    (Response: An update (Tuesday): The European Medicine Agency says, although full analysis not yet complete, the link of AZ to the 37 clot cases is not proven and the vaccine is safe. However, Portugal and Latvia have now suspended its use. My understanding is that, in BC, AZ is still only being used for adults under 65 and to target specific groups in factories etc where people work close together. But you CAN ask when you show up which vaccine is being used and you have the RIGHT TO REFUSE if it is one you don’t want to inject in your body. As for the media, I watched the Dix/Henry show Monday: she assured us AZ is safe, but no real challenge or pointed questions from the complacent, complaint BC media … like you see back East, in Europe, Australia or the US on behalf of readers/listeners/viewers … ie their VERY concerned parents, siblings, seniors and friends. Just the government message-du-jour. Sad. h.o)

  19. BMCQ says:

    WE will soon see claims that Pfizer and Moderna data tests show that either or both of them will show more cases of blood clotting than the Astra Zenica vaccine, that could/might/will leave Health Authorities and Governments world wide in a pickle so to speak .

    With the variants possibly mutating into something much more dangerous and much more resistant to the current 4 vaccines the world could be facing a crisis .

    I heard several so called experts and politicians interviewed yesterday and not once did any media person ask any of those Health Experts or politicians ask the following question .

    “Would YOU or would you want any of your loved ones over 70 years old taking the AZ Jab, which Health Authorities now authorize for those over 65” ?

    Why not ask Dr. Bonnie, Dix, Horgan, PM Justin ?

    I wonder which vaccine the Prime Ministers Mother happened to be vaccinated with ?

  20. BMCQ says:

    Who can the “Great Unwashed” anywhere believe, who can they trust ?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9366963/Coronavirus-Pfizers-Covid-vaccine-linked-blood-clots-AstraZenecas-UK.html

    We may hear absolutely nothing about this in Canada .

  21. Not Sure says:

    Having been called all sorts of names I am a bit leery of responding but here goes.

    I am just a retired English teacher so my opinion is pretty much worthless on this subject but this is what I have learned.

    1. side effects – During testing they check for side effects. Headaches. Upset Stomach. Diarrhea Blood Clots. Anything else that subjects in the trial experience. But there is also a control group. That control group can be a random sample of the general population, but it can also be a group of people who think they have been using something when in fact it is nothing more than a placebo of some kind. The two groups are compared.

    Based on the trials and the real life experience of 10 million+ doses being administered the incidence of blood clots of AZ users is no different than those who haven’t used the vaccine. That appears to be what the European Medicine Agency is concluding. That is what the UK has concluded. And that’s what Canada has concluded. (And yes things are fluid, but we use what we know.)

    2. risk – I read an article about the stringent controls that the American FDA (and likely the Canadian equivalent) are under before giving approval to drugs or vaccines etc. The author said that just one person having a serious adverse effect can result in Congressional investigations. Nobody wants to be that company/health authority to be responsible for any single death. At the same time, however, thousands of people are dying. We will never know how many Europeans will die as a result of this pause or how many Canadians will be alive because we chose not to pause.

    The easy, safe political decision is to pause. No consequences even if thousands are hospitalized and hundreds die in the meantime. The tough decision is to move ahead based on the current information. See #1

    3. trust – I am fascinated by this. So far, we have people on here suggesting that Trudeau is willing to kill people, that the EU is punishing the UK, that people are being lied to about the vaccine they are receiving, that this may be a form of population control, that this is the biggest human drug test ever and that we should be taking politicians’ words with a whole pound of salt while telling us to watch a youtube video.

    I get the “but they are only doing this because they need jabs in arms” but that goes back to #2. So who do we trust? Do we distrust our own politicians and their “hired hands” and the politicians and “hired hands” in the UK but trust the politicians and their hired hands in the countries that have paused AZ.

    Or do we only trust the people who agree with our perceptions. “Look NACI says over 65s should not use AZ. Proves my point.” NACI changes its mind and says it is safe to use with over 65s. “I don’t trust them.”

    None of what I have said is intended to say anybody on here is wrong. As noted I am a retired English teacher who thinks science is magic. I am just pointing out the complexities of this topic and how it is not as easy as some of you are making it out. Look at my buddy BMCQ, the biggest Trudeau/Horgan critic on here. Read between the lines or even read the exact lines. He said the experts he listened to said AZ was safe. He understands the need for jabs in arms.

    I could feel his dilemma. I am sure he is glad he is not making this decision. I know I am glad I don’t have to make the decision either. And I bet the same goes for most of you.

    Anyway, roller coaster ride is over. Waiting for the next go around.

    (Response: That’s always the challenge: separating fact from fiction … and personal bias too … to arrive at a reasoned conclusion on any issue. That’s what I find so difficult and concerning with AZ. I have not found it hard to dismiss that “Trudeau is willing to kill people, that the EU is punishing the UK, that people are being lied to about the vaccine they are receiving, that this may be a form of population control”. But that still leaves a LOT of very diverse, even contradicting studies and conclusions by experts, scientists, health officials that I cannot so easily set aside, including the very issues you list: side effects, risk and trust. Just today, at the very same time two more nations were adding themselves to the fairly large list now of Western nations suspending AZ, Canada’s “expert” agency not only said AZ is safe, but can even be given to seniors over 65!!! Aren’t they ALL looking at the same data? Aren’t they ALL basing their conclusions on science? Science should be like MATHS … things should add up correctly, or they don’t. Is what they want to inject into our bodies Safe or not???? There should be no room for interpretation, excuses… or politics! h.o)

  22. BMCQ says:

    Not Sure

    Now that I am aware you area retired school teacher I can understand why I thought you were one in the same as another contributor to the blog, DBW, we have not always agreed but respect him very much . Secondly please do not criticize my grammar and sentence structure, I am easily bullied . Thirdly my 31 year old son attended Vancouver College, that may give you a clue as to my conservative bent and how I might feel about………

    Thank you for spending your life as a Teacher I am sure you were a good one !

    I strongly believe Teachers, Fire, Police, Retail/Food Service/Restaurant workers should all be at the front of the line with those over say 80, that includes Truckers, some of the most important people in society . Yes there are more we could add to that list but…….

    I am not trying to be political when I criticize any politician or health official, I simply want the facts, the science, and objectivity to be front and centre in each and every decision made regarding Covid – 19 Vaccinations and it strikes me that politics is playing far to much into decisions made .

    I have serious concerns about AZ and the blood clots but now also see the claims by certain Health Authorities reversing on a dime and I ask why ? At the same time I see the EU halting AZ Jabs but I see a certain Anti BREXIT UK sentiment as well so I wonder if EU Nations are willing to gamble with the lives/health of their Citizens and now they are reversing their ban on AZ and I ask why ? Politics ? Yes or no we need clarification on why minds and protocols have changed .

    In the meantime here in Vanada we cannot get media to ask politicians and health officials if they would take AZ or give AZ to their 85 year old mum, why can’t Media ask the simple but important questions ?

    Between Harvey and others on this Blog there has been a better argument, discussion, and debate, than what we have seen from media .

    How can so many in politics, health authorities and media in so many countries view the Vaccine protocols, the science, and possible health risks so very differently ?

    Why is it Harvey that demands answers while working media all sit with their hands covering their ears, mouths, and eyes ? Shouldn’t we want to know ?

    I do not hate Premier Horgan, I disagree with much of what he says and I disagree with much of his legislation, I also question his management style and abilities but I believe he is a decent man but I also question the fact that Geoff Meggs is a big part of the Premiers Brain, Meggs is a bottom feeder and an opportunist .

    The PM on the other hand is basically a moron and I honestly feel he has no redeeming qualities whatsoever, none of that has anything to do with politics, it is his dishonesty and weakness of character . On top of that he makes my skin crawl and it makes me sick he is in charge of the Covid NON response and the acquisition and distribution of Vaccines .

    Canadians deserve much better .

    I can only hope that the changes in policy and protocols in Canada and other countries were driven by the science but I will need convincing .

    Let me end by asking this question of DBW, Not Sure, Baker, Helena, and more, would you or would you want any loved one holding your arm out to receive the Astra Zenica Jab if you or you loved happened to be over say 75 ? I have concluded that Helena is somewhere in that age bracket and that opinion would be important to me and I think others who participate on this blog .

  23. Not Sure says:

    Harvey, you make a good point about looking at the same data and coming to the same conclusion. But politicians, people on the internet, regular folk (I overheard somebody in Safeway today say no way he was taking AZ) and even scientists try to figure out what to do with that data.

    As far as I can tell everybody is seeing the same data exactly the same way. There have been a few cases of blood clotting. It is likely that the cases are insignificant compared with a random sample of non vaccine users. There is no evidence that the vaccine is causing the clotting. But even if it is slightly elevated, the benefits of AZ far outweigh the risks. Right now, none of that is in dispute.

    So for whatever reasons, we have some countries (the UK, Canada, I imagine India and others) still using AZ. And we have some countries exercising an “abundance of caution” ie. there is probably nothing there but we want to make sure and putting its rollout on pause.

    As my son would say “it is hella confusing”. I read an article where some experts say the EU countries have made a mistake. They are not saying that these blood clotting situations should be ignored. But they are saying that the evidence indicates that right now there is no problem so keep using AZ while the investigation proceeds.

    By doing it the way the EU has done it
    a. you are delaying vaccinating hundreds of thousands of people, leading to more hospitalizations and deaths and
    b. you are adding fuel to the fear of vaccine crowd (the guy in Safeway).

    Honestly, I have no clue what the correct answer is and I guess we will have a better idea on Thursday when the European Medical Agency gives its specifics. But right now, I am not sure why I would trust Danish and German officials over Canadian and British ones when they are both reading the data the exact same way but deciding on a different way of using it in the short term.

    I can’t find the article I used above, but here is a similar one.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/politics-threatens-cloud-eu-countries-pause-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-coronavirus/

    (Response: Why “trust Danish and German officials over Canadian and British ones when they are both reading the data the exact same way but deciding on a different way of using it in the short term”? I can only answer for myself: I do believe Canadian officials are sincere when they say AZ is very, very safe, despite its clinical lower efficacy rate and 37 blood clot cases. My problem is I still remember the thalidomide tragedy … another “miracle” drug that the experts evaluated and truly believed was safe, but turned out to be very dangerous, with tragic results; and on this blog, Richard reminded all of us of the Canadian tainted blood scandal, when I’m sure officials BELIEVED they were doing the best for most, and many ended up dead. So I personally have greater faith and trust in the health officials and governors in the 20 countries where they suspended use of AZ until they’re sure …. very sure … it is not causing clotting. I truly hope AZ turns out to be safe again for those under 65 once ALL the blood clot incidence data is scientifically analyzed. h.o)

  24. helena handcart says:

    I am 80 and getting my jab next Tuesday. I’ll be very happy with any of the approved vaccines. If you cannot trust a medical professional of the stature of Dr. Bonnie Henry, who can you trust?

    (Response: Lucky you: I think you will feel much better with vaccine protection. And right now, in BC they are only giving Pfizer or Moderna to the older groups. h.o)

  25. BMCQ says:

    helena

    God luck, I am sure it will work out well !

    I wonder, do they give you any indication of which vaccine ? Any indication of when you will receive the next one ? Any chance the Jab will turn you into a Conservative supporter ?

    (Response: Once more, uncertainty around AZ continues today (Weds): the World Health Organization has said it is safe https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/15/world-health-organization-reaffirms-safety-of-oxford-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine ; but a new study reported in the New England Journal of Medicine has found AZ was not effective against the South African variant of Covid: https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/91658. Beginning to look to me like the AZ vaccine will become the “Dollar Store” version of the vaccine: okay for some purposes, but not the best. h.o)

  26. Not Sure says:

    In the interest of keeping things real and all facts are on the table.

    The one good that came of the thalidomide tragedy was the far stricter rules that manufactures must follow before a product is approved. Ironically, the US didn’t have the same results as other countries because a Vancouver Island born, McGill educated doctor working at the FDA refused under great pressure to approve thalidomide. Too bad she hadn’t been working in Canada.

    The blood tainting scandal was not unique to Canada.

    Harvey, it isn’t that I necessarily disagree with you. If Canada had paused AZ while European countries were still using it, I would be wondering about the logic but I would be accepting the judgment of our experts. With our vaccination numbers so low I wonder if people on here who are upset about the non pause would be just as upset at a pause.

    Anyway, I just scrolled back to look for something else and found BCMQ’s link to the daily mail.

    “Pfizer’s Covid vaccine is linked to MORE blood clots than AstraZeneca’s – so why isn’t the EU banning it? Hypocrisy of European nations revealed as Italy admits decision was ‘POLITICAL'”

    And breaking news: https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-eu-threatens-to-block-jab-exports-to-uk-and-other-countries-with-high-vaccination-rates-12248671

    The EU leader who claims to trust astrazeneca is complaining that the UK is not sending enough doses to the EU while half of the EU countries are refusing to use it. Go figure.

    So right now, it’s the EU who appears to be bungling this “controversy” more than anybody.

    (Response: Don’t be so sure it’s the EU that is “bungling”. Read TODAY’s reported news in New England Journal: there’s a link in my response to BMCQ today. Bloomberg News is now reporting the same NEW problem with AZ: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-03-16/astra-shot-doesn-t-thwart-south-africa-variant-in-study-data. Looks increasingly to me that the EU has been acting in the interests of caution to protect their populations, while Canada and the provinces are saying Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead … even though there are AZ doubts relating to: efficacy, blood clots and, now, ineffectiveness against one of the prominent variants. To me THAT’S scary … and bungling. Dix and Henry are really lucky no media in BC are subjecting them to really tough questioning! h.o)

  27. helena handcart says:

    Bob, I have learned a few things in my 80 years on this planet and one is that it does not matter which party is in power things stay pretty much the same. Liberal, NDP, Monster Raving Loony Party, it didn’t make a scintilla of difference to my life. No matter who you vote for, the bureaucrats still stay the same. You cannot vote for the guy who checks your tax return or denies you a booze license.
    Who knows; If I get an AZ jab I might end up voting for O’ Toole.

    (Response: Meanwhile, the Canada/US vaccine issue is unfolding as I predicted it would, when I wrote: “Watch for Biden to lift the embargo on exports of vaccines to Canada by May. It’s already in the interests of the US … and its suffering northern border towns and cities … to help Canada catch up to the US vaccination rate. And get the majority of populations on BOTH sides of the border vaccinated by mid to late Summer.” Today, out of Washington, came the following: https://ipolitics.ca/2021/03/17/white-house-considering-request-from-canada-for-vaccines/. It WILL happen … not because the Americans care about Canada, but all part of the US goal to get the road border open again to save their own border towns/cities that depend on Canadian shoppers. h.o)

  28. Not Sure says:

    Harvey, I am once again angry at myself for getting sucked into this kind of discussion.

    We have been discussing whether of not Canada should have paused the use of astrazeneca. The WHO in the article you linked said that there was no indication that AZ was causing the blood clots. Whether or not Canada should have paused AZ at the time you wrote this article may have been debateable and maybe it still is, but right now given all that we now know do you still think Canada should pause the use of AZ while waiting for some EU countries to make up their mind?

    That is the topic. Not whether AZ is effective against one the variants, specifically the one from South Africa which you have now brought up. Should we stop using AZ because it is not that effective against this variant? Then…

    https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20210309/s-african-variant-challenges-pfizer-moderna-vaccines

    Pfizer and Moderna are also challenged by the South African variant.

    Now to be honest I had no clue what any of the numbers meant in either of the articles we linked. Which is the problem with any of us making definite statements like your headline.

    It is fine to bring up the topic. But clearly there are two sides to this discussion. It is not as cut and dried as you seem to imply. Honestly, I am too dumb to argue with whatever our experts have to say.

    BTW, in an early response to me to me you asked “Aren’t they ALL looking at the same data? Aren’t they ALL basing their conclusions on science?”

    Coincidentally, I am in the middle of a book that mentioned this problem as it related to global warming/climate change. Scientists who study the data are pretty much in agreement on what the data says. The problem is that scientists do not have the data to determine definitively what the best solution should be. These are policy decisions and of course politicians will look for the scientists who agree with their policy and opponents are equally able to find scientists who disagree with that policy.

    Again Harvey, I am not smart enough to say definitively that you are wrong. That’s why I go by Not Sure. I just want to gain all the information that I can so I can make the best decision for myself. So in answer to BMCQ about taking AZ. At this moment in time, if I were offered AZ I would not worry about taking it. Just remember that my expertise is more in line with To Be or Not To Be rather than To Take or Not to Take.

    (Response: you wrote “But clearly there are two sides to this discussion.” Exactly: and you should give me credit for mentioning BOTH: that the WHO says AZ says it’s safe and should be used; while the very same day, the New England Journal of Medicine reports it is a “flop” in treating the South African variant. At least I am giving both sides … not just shilling for Dr Henry and Adrian Dix and pushing AZ. As for your question “Do you still think Canada should pause the use of AZ while waiting for some EU countries to make up their mind?” … it’s not about “the EU making up their mind”: it’s about the EU waiting for the FULL analysis of data and the EU weighing the FULL evidence BEFORE jabbing thousands of people with a drug … and YES, I trust that approach more that of Canada’s politicians. I hope AZ will be cleared as safe, but I think it is wrong to give it to people BEFORE it is cleared … especially when there are other vaccines available, not generating the same worries. h.o)

  29. BMCQ says:

    Rightly or wrongly with what we now “sort of” know, if I was in any bracket that was eligible for a jab today and the one that was available was AZ I would choose to wait, not because the science is hard that AZ is going to cause any significant number of blood clotting incidents in people, I would wait out of caution, and that decision is out of character for me, I like to trust our political masters . The mentions thalidomide and tainted blood made me think more cautiously, simple .

    I would also choose to wait regardless of the brand of vaccine if my second jab would be more than 28 days, again, just because of my own personal conclusions based on what we/I know at this point .

    Honestly I think there has been more open honest argument, discussion, and debate, on this blog than what we see from the W.H.O., the Canadian Government, Dr. Who/Tam, the B.C. Government, B.C. Health people and the very compliant, complicit, media who appear to be sleep walking right through this whole vaccine fiasco .

    Then of course the conflicting, disinformation, manipulative reports out of the EU who cannot be trusted to be honest and transparent about anything, the EU could either be correct in the concerns shown by some countries or they could be willing to sacrifice the long term health of their own citizens just to make the UK AZ vaccine look bad . Then people like us half way around the world are left to speculate .

    As I stated yesterday I think the truth will come out and the science will show the way with fact based evidence within only a few days, let us hope AZ is cleared, people world wide need to be vaccinated by something that is safe NOW and at the same time saves lives . IMHO if we do not do the right thing we could very well see a mutated variant sometime soon that may be more difficult to control by current vaccines and that could be catastrophic . We have no time to waste .

    I also find it rather aggravating that while at my desk at 5 am each morning I can immediately turn to the dailymail.co.com and read any number of news articles covering all sides of this or any other news story while in Canada we only get stories favourable to the Federal Government or in the case of B.C. the B.C. Government .

    Something we must all keep in mind, on this site, “Keeping It Real” rightly or wrongly we all get to be heard, we all must admit we do not see that kind of fairness and balance from working media and our elected officials/ political masters .

    We will see much more truth and transparency come out regarding Vaccines, Astra Zeneca, thevEU, Blood Clots, and variants within days, let us hope that we in Canada hear the truth and nothing but the truth, hold onto your hats .

  30. 13 says:

    Im going to call my family Dr tomorrow am and ask to get a blood test to see if Ive had covid and created some level of protection with antibodies. Ive taken two covid tests since the Chinese unleashed this epidemic on the planet.
    I agree with BMCQ, notsure and even helena on some issues but I wouldnt take the AZ vax even if it came with a free Hyundai Pony. Im also starting to believe it might not be any more or less harmful that any other vax. It isnt even highly effective. BUT with all the changes in mid stream over 65 nyet over 65 ok. clots yea clots nea. ITS OBVIOUS that science be damned and politics rules the roost.
    This entire pandemic has been tainted by inept corrupt politics and politicians.

  31. BMCQ says:

    I find it incredibly amazing that information on the Astra Zeneca Vaccine is changing as often as it is, when will the science provide enough accurate data on the clinical testing so Doctors and patients can make an informed decision on which vaccine to consider ?

    Attached is one of the latest reports out of the UK .

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376777/Five-cases-rare-blood-clot-AstraZeneca-jab-no-causal-link-found.html

    Then there is this .

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9376777/Five-cases-rare-blood-clot-AstraZeneca-jab-no-causal-link-found.html

    Was there not an old time TV show called “Who Do You Trust” ?

    I for one since BREXIT trust absolutely nothing that comes out of the EU, Politics plays a big part in everything they do and it will be even more political now that the UK is FREE !!

    Then as we have been asking, can we fully rely on the UK reports regarding AZ .
    Again, at this time I would personally err on the side of caution .

    This constant changing, inconsistent, and fluid, moving target and information is something we should be concerned about .

    https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-if-you-get-the-call-get-the-jab-health-secretary-matt-hancock-says-oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-is-safe-12248123

    The EU EMA may provide a news release sometime today or tomorrow .

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/italys-draghi-says-ema-comments-182332731.html

    (Response: For those willing to take the AZ vaccine, there was good news today (Thurs) from the US: Biden has okayed “loaning” AZ doses to Canada …exact shipping date tba ..but this fits well with my blog predicting that would happen around May, in an effort to get the US/Canada road border OPEN by late Summer without quarantine for those who have been vaccinated.
    http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/canada-us-road-border-could-reopen-by-late-summer-without-quarantine/.
    And by the way, kudos to CTV News at Six: really good interview by Mi-Jung Lee and Scott Roberts Weds eve with Premier John Horgan… exactly the way it SHOULD be done: respectful but challenging any spin or failures to directly answer the questions. First time in a long time Horgan has ended any media interview with warm feet!! Watch it on CTV’s site! h.o)

  32. Not Sure says:

    Harvey, I find it amusing that when we disagree you fall back on the “you are shilling for Henry and Dix and pushing for AZ.” Not only is it untrue but it is a classic ad hominem response. Can we just address the issue.

    Anyway, now that the EU regulator has said that AZ is safe and effective for continued use, I would like to address BMCQ who seems to be beating himself up over this “controversy” and wishes the science could be more definitive.

    I found this article exceptional in understanding this particular issue. Read the comments as well.

    https://theconversation.com/blood-clot-fears-how-misapplication-of-the-precautionary-principle-may-undermine-public-trust-in-vaccines-157168\

    In short, there is a precautionary principle that kicks in when even a single case gets reported. Scientists investigate. The tricky part is what to do in the meantime. Harvey agrees with some EU countries (not all mind you) that delivery should be paused. Others disagree. The precautionary principle is not in question. But pausing is and that is because there is a risk trade off. Sometimes there is no trade off so definitely pause. But in this case you are still many times more likely to be hospitalized or die from covid if you don’t take AZ than you are to get a blood clot if you do. How many British and Canadian lives were saved by not pausing and how many EU lives were lost as a result of the pause? Not Sure. But that was the dilemma. And on top of that, pausing may add to vaccine hesitancy which is already a problem. Look how people feel about AZ despite the science saying it is safe and effective.

    Anyway, BMCQ, I appreciate your admitted confusion on this. Reading your personal debate was helpful to me. So, who do we trust? On the one hand you had the WHO and Trudeau (who you don’t trust) siding with Boris Johnson (who you do) against the EU (who you don’t trust) and Harvey (who you do). As you would say, “Yikes!”

    I would hate to see you get sick with covid because you were waiting on a preferred vaccine so if you are still Not Sure may I suggest asking your doctor or one of your doctor friends. Would you trust them enough to sway you one way or the other?

    (Response: I believe you are indeed an NDP shill: just seems to me your “starting point” in any discussion is in overall defence of the NDP government … on ANY topic. Nothing wrong with that on a political blog where comments from both sides are welcome, but I don’t think you should object if others conclude you look at the various topics from an NDP supporter’s perspective. If you’d like to prove me wrong, please forward me copies of ANY submissions you’ve made condemning the NDP’s handling of ANY ISSUE and supporting positions taken on ANY ISSUE by BC Liberals, federal Tories etc. h.o)

  33. Baker says:

    Keeping it real is now a topic among French Healthcare Officials.

    Quote:
    Thank you (name) for sharing of recent blog posts. Indeed you and me are doing our best to raise our discussions …..

    (Edited for credibility. LOL! h.o)

    I forwarded those blogs posts to dozens of health care professionals around me at the French National Public Health Agency ….

    (Edited for credibility. h.o)

    End quote.

    (Response: Soooo a French a medical “expert” (Paris?) writes you in exquisite English, but says “you and me are doing…” ??? And this happens at this busy time handling the Covid pandemic and all the AZ questions/issues … even has time to tell you he forwarded your letter and all the Keeping it Real blog posts/comments ” to dozens of health care professionals around me at the French National Public Health Agency” and already has replies from them??? Wow! KIR rocks!!! LOL! Please e-mail me a copy of all the letters you received on their letterheads … to reinstate ANY credibility you think you have. h.o)

  34. 13 says:

    Harvey, I must say I agree with your responses to the last couple of posters. Its one thing to disagree but another to launch personal attacks against yourself and others to try and discredit opposing opinions.
    That kind of behavior does not shine a good light on the NDP or any political party.

  35. Not Sure says:

    LOL This is just stupid Harvey. You launch a personal attack against me and 13 says I have launched a personal attack against you. Seriously?

    Definition of shill: an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others.

    My wife had never heard of the word. I told her I learned it as a 10 year old when my dad took me to the PNE and we were watching people play the over7/under 7 wheel.

    So no, I am not an accomplice. I joined the BC NDP for one year (2005) to support a friend who was seeking the nomination. I joined the BC Liberals in 1983 for the same reason. I just have opinions, Harvey. Are 13 or BMCQ shills for the CPC or the BC Liberals.

    I was extremely critical of the fall election call, more so than you who was just interested in the strategy rather than the ethics. I have questioned Site C.

    But none of that matters Harvey. If you resort to ad hominems, you are not helping let alone winning the discussion.

    Besides, isn’t it more fun with opposing views. I learn a hell of lot more looking up stuff when I disagree so I have facts to back me up. I look up nothing when I agree. And on top of that look what we have done to poor BMCQ. One of the few times he doesn’t have a solid point of view. I doubt that he will be offered AZ so in his case the discussion is moot. (and to be clear 13 that is not a criticism or put down of BMCQ. It is just a result of the complexities of this discussion and someone genuinely trying to sort it out. I have complimented him on his willingness to figure it out on here.)

    One of my kids is a school teacher. Another works in a pre-school. It looks like their occupations have been, prioritized to receive AZ in April. I know they want to be vaccinated and none of us will lose a wink of sleep over the vaccine they are given.

    (Response: I agree: you are no “swindler” … at least, as far as I know. And you may be surprised … but I couldn’t care less about “winning the discussion”. If I wanted that, I would do what many other bloggers do: issue forth my own rant; but not open the site to comments and discussion. That’s one of my favorite parts. But I do believe I do better than MOST on here, including you, in being EQUALLY critical of all the parties: NDP both provincial and federal: BC Libs both provincial and federal; the Tories; the Greens etc. without any favour. I don’t buy their spin; their selective transparency, their lies, their phony outrage; or their pandering to their supporters, their base, their friends, their campaign contributors and even too often their relatives. And I hope that’s why people read/enjoy this blog. h.o)

  36. Baker says:

    Harvey, you so seriously eviscerated my previous post (463 words reduced to 57) to the point both context and content were lost or worse, twisted.

    Further, you clearly did not read what was presented; no letters were written. I stated a link to KIR was shared with my virologist friend because we had been talking about political biases around AstraZeneca. SHE shared the KIR links with others who, pondered whether you were having everyone on.

    Clearly, you need to control the narrative and that’s fine, but it would have been better to just dump my post entirely.

    On this we will agree; credibility is shot.

    (Response: I have kept the other 407 words: just waiting for you to send me proof of the discussion/responses you quoted. Now you say “no letters were written” but in your original post you said your “friend” had “forwarded those blogs posts to dozens of health care professionals around me at the French National Public Health Agency, they wondered ….” So, your “friend” just forwarded all the blog postings without a letter? And they all replied? To whom? To what…if there was no accompanying letter? Put up or shut up … and, by the way, you’re also off topic! 🙂 h.o)

  37. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Regarding the news today that front-line workers will get the AZ vaccine: I used to be a retired teacher, but have been back at it as a part-timer since 2017. I’m also in the 65-69 age group, which has recently been okayed for AZ.

    Both of my numbers will be coming up, so do I go in as a teacher and get AZ for sure — or take my chances of getting the other name brands, as a regular senior?

    Simple for me: “If it’s approved, here’s my arm.”

    Teaching in normal times can be tough. With a mask on? “_______!” You can quote me on that.

  38. Baker says:

    Not Sure, thanks for the link to The Conversation. It was that topic I was discussing with my friend in France; thoughts I shared here in my previously redacted entry, which was entirely her words not mine.

    I quoted her; ”…nothing more normal than to temporarily halt vaccinating with a product after noticing reactions in some cases, in order to investigate as soon as possible. (I have) No objection nor opposition in that, just a precautionary measure as sometimes happens after approval for the marketing of new drugs. This kind of situation happened many times in pharmacology that will happen again and again.”

    (Edited…off topic)

  39. e.a.f. says:

    To take AZ or not to take AZ? that is the question. I’ll take it. don’t care if blood clotting is an issue at this time. Why you ask, besides, whatever. Its like this. If I develop COVID my chances are slim I’ll survive. I’m a senior with bad lungs due to bad choices, have heart problems which maybe part of my genetic makeup, oh, and I’m over weight. So as long as AZ is not a greater risk than dying of COVID, I’ll take the AZ vaccine if that is all that is available. although some countries may have stopped using AZ haven’t read people are dying by the hundreds of blood clots, but people are dying of COVID by the hundreds still in this country.

    For that matter we don’t know what the long term effects of the other vaccines are going to be. It was rushed to market to deal with a world wide pandemic and there are no results as to long term studies of these drugs.

    There are people who will participate in clinical studies of experimental drugs for deadly diseases. The covid drugs in my opinion all fall under that category at this time.

    The vaccines at this time, are our best chances of not dying of COVID, unless you can avoid human contact. Even if you are careful, some one else might not be. Was reading an American blog where one of the authors lost a very close friend due to COVID. One of the comments shared was by some whose family had worked hard to protect the grandparents from outside contact and COVID. Unfortunately one of the teenagers caught it, and “gave” it to their grandparent who died. The Grandparent had died prior to the vaccine being available. My point is, we are in a new era, its all a crap shoot and me, I’m just looking at the odds. Right now, in my opinion, for me, the odds are better if I take AZ than no vaccine.

    I could simply wait until I had the “right” vaccine, but the longer I go with out a shot the better my odds are of catching it. Being careful and following all protocols might not be enough. Go out once a month to pick up mail and shop. Don’t visit, even wear a mask when out walking unless its at night and won’t come into contact with others. However, for the past 3 weeks have had to go to a hospital almost daily to visit with a sibling. It makes you nervous, even if you follow all protocols because even though some hospitals are still in lock down and others restrict the visitors to one person, people in hospital can leave the buildings and meet people outside and then return into the hospital. What do they bring with them? They don’t always wear a mask when they are meeting others outside. There is actually nothing hospitals can do about patients going outside, its their right to leave the building and as sick individuals, they have to take them back in. Although the sibling is in hospital, they stand a greater risk of catching covid there than if they were in isolation in their own home.

    Because of the variants we may be required to have “booster” shots or other variations of the vaccine. We don’t know how that will all work because medical science hasn’t been down this road before, just as we hadn’t been down the road with a lot of medications used to day for cancer. People volunteered for experiments. Now some may argue, we are being experimented on without our consent, but really if AZ is all that is available?

    Interesting topic Harvey. I’m sure it will create a lot of debate and not many of us are going to change each others minds.

    It might be interesting to know if any one has died from the other vaccines and how many or what % of the population. Some governments may have pulled AZ in fear that if people died as a result of taking it, however few, people might not be willing to take any of the vaccines. There are enough anti vaccers out there.

  40. BMCQ says:

    (Edited…getting way off topic, which was the AZ vaccine)

    If we had a Conservative Federal Government behaving the way the PM Justin Liberals are behaving I would be just as critical and perhaps even more so if they handled the whole Covid Fiasco from the early days to the NON Roll Out and NON acquisition of vaccines, the Liberals should hang their heads in shame .

    Then of course there is the fact that their accomplices the working media have absolutely failed at their jobs and in fact mislead the Canadian Public, many of whom are seriously ill or even dead .

    I am personally not in conflict with myself, I am in conflict with so very much of the very mixed, disjointed, inconsistent, dishonest, information, propaganda, and reporting coming from any given government and media .

    I have concerns with AZ but as I mentioned several days ago ahead of reports from the EU that EU Nations were simply playing dirty politics and weaponizing the rejection of AZ as a way to get revenge against the NOW FREE United Kingdom . Despicable and literally abuse of their own citizens, imagine using the health of your own citizens by withholding a vaccine ? Who could do that other than an African Dictator or perhaps a Joe Stalin, or any similar politician who has a stranglehold on the population ? If the right date came down on AZ and I could get the jabs within the 28 days I would more than likely consider it . Again, Harvey and someone else pointed out the affects of Thalidomide and the Tainted Blood, we should not forget .

    (Edited…off topic)

    I still would at this time not accept the AZ, not until there is a more definitive science based data we can trust, that date may be confirmed within hours as more EU nations are now accepting of AZ and some even admit the halt on AZ was political .

    No need to worry about me about contracting Covid, I have already had a Corona Virus and survived quite well . For many years I spent more time in Asia than Jackie Chan, at one time I had over 300 close personal friends in Hong Kong alone and many more in other Asian Nations, a good friend of my fathers who was Hong Kong Chinese opened many many doors for me in HK and it was him and many of his friends that showed me the evil of the CCP and China, early on I made the decision to never visit China, contribute to their economy or support their abuse of animals and their population .
    Yes, I am confused on this whole Covid – 19 issue but I can point to the media and far too many politicians for that confusion, I cannot simply accept what they say, especially when the target keeps moving things are far too fluid, and politics seems to be the order of the day .

    Again, why is it Harvey that shines a light on this more than any other Working Canadian Media members ?

    The virus knocked me down for a few days, it was very difficult as I was on my own for the first three days, I lived on soft drinks and water, fortunately my respiratory system remained strong and there was no lasting damage, I can still swim over 100 feet underwater without a problem, I must admit that in my 20’s I could easily do 150′ .

    Interestingly enough when I returned to Vancouver and had myself checked out by Doctors not a word was mentioned about me being tested for anything . I had no obvious symptoms other than the smell and taste problem but………..

    The one lasting mark the Covid left me with is unfortunately I lost my sense of smell and taste for a few months . At the time the Dr. told me that it I may get them back and I might get some of it back or I might not get any of it back . I now have a smell and taste gauge that on a normal day registers at about 25% of what I normally had .
    That is more than likely why I prefer spicy foods, Caesar Salads, Singapore Noodles etc. .

    Bottom line here is I feel politicians at all levels in far too many countries, provinces, and differing jurisdictions along with a compliant and complicit working media have mislead the public at best and endangered lives and may have caused serious illness or even death . Call me alarmist if you will but that is the way I see it .

    I hope your children get both the jabs in a timely manner, they should be right up the list with those over 80 or whatever age group is up next, so should Ferry Workers as well .

  41. Not Sure says:

    First of all Harvey, I do appreciate this blog particularly right now when we are mostly cooped up at home. I wouldn’t be here otherwise. And I enjoy listening to the opinions of other people even the ones I disagree with because without them I wouldn’t be looking stuff up to find support for my own position.

    And I readily admit my biases. But, if you think I come across as an NDP apologist, then so what? My bias, especially with covid, is the truth. I don’t think that I have made any statements without backing them up with evidence

    But maybe I am putting myself in a bubble. Google algorithms will put your usual search history at the forefront. If I already have CBC bookmarked then searching for a topic may have a CBC story at the top. As well they will have the most often read stories at the top so lesser read newspapers may be harder to find. If I want to find the Toronto Sun then I should specifically look for it. So I did.

    Right wing newspaper. Warren Kinsella, former Liberal worker, but a fierce critic of Trudeau. Here is his take on this very topic. Pretty sure he is disagreeing with Harvey.

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/kinsella-listen-to-scientists-about-astrazeneca-over-conspiracy-theorists

    And I explored the Sun site a bit more. Kinsella says listen to scientists. Conservative columnist Brian Lilley. Questioner of Ford’s lockdowns. Refers to Ford blindly following the advice of scientists re lockdowns as a “doctatorship” which is pretty funny although I mostly disagree with that assessment.

    But what’s even funnier is that this conservative pundit in a conservative newspaper is telling a conservative premiere to follow the lead of the BC NDP government. What’s the world coming to?

    https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnists/lilley-ontario-should-follow-b-c-s-lead-in-reopening-the-province

    Anyway Harvey, interesting topic with lots of other information out there if people have the time to look.

    (Response: I agree that science should prevail when it comes to something as important as injecting something into people’s bodies. But I don’t believe ONLY science is prevailing in all the decisions being made about Astra Zeneca: some countries are still NOT using it; others have decided to use it for ONLY those under 65; Canada has changed its mind and now says AZ can be safely used for EVERYONE; and …wait for it … just today, France recommended AZ be used for ONLY those OVER 55!!! https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/france-astrazeneca-covid-vaccine-under-55-1.5956315. OVER 55!!! What the hell! Which decision is the scientific one? There’s much more at play here … and Keeping it Real is keeping it real. h.o)

  42. Not Sure says:

    Your last response to me has you sounding genuinely confused about political decisions re astrazeneca. Answers are out there if you have the time to look. Being retired I have the time to look and I honestly don’t think it is up to the local media to do the reasearch for us all the time. Maybe I am just naturally curious. This took very little time from the insignificant, but enjoyable novel I am reading. And while looking I find other stuff as well.

    Here is an article that defends the position you were taking. Mind you it is a half defense because it is saying that Belgium and other European countries (and by extension Canada) were right not to pause but the other countries were not being stupid or political.

    https://www.thelocal.se/20210319/opinion-european-governments-were-cautious-on-astrazeneca-vaccines-but-they-were-neither-stupid-nor-political/

    And here is some good news. Scientists know how to deal with the blood clotting.

    “Very, very few people will develop this complication,” Professor Andreas Greinacher. “But if it happens, we now know how to treat the patients.”

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/03/19/european-scientists-say-they-know-why-astrazenecas-vaccine-is-causing-rare-blood-clots/?sh=211c945a41f1

    And here is the answer to your French and over 55 question.

    “It said its recommendation was based on the fact that the reports of blood clots that had prompted its suspension in France and other European countries had only been seen in those aged under 55.”

    https://www.thelocal.fr/20210319/france-resumes-astrazeneca-vaccination-but-recommends-it-for-over-55s-only/

    It is a roller coaster Harvey. We had a slow rollout. Things now look better. There was a phone debacle. That’s been fixed. There was a problem with AZ. It is safe and effective. I am sure there will be another hill to climb.

    I really don’t care what an outlier like France is doing right now with AZ. I am comfortable with what Canada is doing. France is already a country with vaccine hesitancy. I don’t think their decision is helping.

    I saw a poll that said about 12% of Canadians would not get any vaccine which is much lower than the US and many European countries. I want the messaging to continue so that we reach the goal of getting as many Canadians vaccinated as possible. Maybe Canada will lose the rollout game but if at the end we have a larger % of people vaccinated won’t we be better off?

    I am sorry if I am posting too much.

    (Response: It’s not just me who is “confused”: many people in many countries … if they have been paying attention to the news, the studies, the pronouncements by “experts”, the decisions by their “leaders” … have been “confused” about AZ. Especially when, in the very same day, some countries says it’s fine to give AZ to everyone over 16; others continue to suspend it’s use; still others say it’s good for those UP TO 65; and, yes, still another country recommends it for ONLY those older than 55. I don’t think it’s the public’s fault many are “confused”. Now, I assume the leading scientists and health officials in ALL these countries can read and write and analyze data. So then it s reasonable to wonder why the decisions by so many, at the same time, are so different??? Sure leads me to conclude that decisions are being made, not solely on scientific grounds, but “other” factors … such as availability of alternatives, belief that it’s better than nothing, geographic source/origin, maybe even price. And anyone who thinks all these things are considered and decisions reached without political “input” is very, very naïve. h.o)

  43. Not Sure says:

    LOL as we speak

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/astrazeneca-blood-clot-risk-canada-1.5957462

    Another hill. The science will figure it out.

    (Response: And there’s now this, from the US ..where AZ is still NOT approved: https://www.wsj.com/articles/scientists-say-they-found-cause-of-blood-clotting-linked-to-astrazeneca-vaccine-11616169108. Still ready to take it … if you have another choice? I will NOT. h.o)

  44. Baker says:

    Late last night I read the latest additions to this topic and came across this, from HO: “France recommended AZ be used for ONLY those OVER 55!!! OVER 55!!! What the hell!

    So, in answer to your “what the hell,” like it or not, I put it to my friend in the French Public Health Agency, quoting you exactly and asked for clarification.

    This evening she came back to me, very quickly considering our time difference.

    Though the reply was very detailed and extremely long, this is the core response, plucked from the middle of her reply:

    ”Another reason of reserving AstraZeneca vaccine for over 55 was strong side effects reported by many French health workers with an average age of younger than 55, after the first injections of the AstraZeneca vaccine on 6 February.”

    Harvey, that was about 40 words of a 1200 word reply.

    The rest addresses more on the French decision making, the multi country EURO approach to vaccines and AZ failures.

    I will submit the entire piece in a subsequent post, if only because it is fascinating and is laid out in very understandable terms and I know Not Sure enjoys new material.

    (Response: Although I often allow links to published on-topic articles and news stories, agreeing AND disagreeing, this blog is not a place for anyone to just submit/publish treatises of friends or unidentified theorists. If your “friend in the French Public Health Agency” is prepared to be identified as an expert and write in directly, I’m sure we’d all welcome her contribution to our discussion. As far as publishing her entire thesis, especially unnamed and unidentified, I suggest establish your own blog and publish it there. h.o)

  45. 13 says:

    There is a lot to digest, almost info overload. Enough to confuse the issue. Lets all try to focus. Lets all keep our eye on the prize. Lets all remember why were in the position with having to decide whos telling the truth about astra vax.
    First the origin of the pandemic.
    Second our Federal Liberals under Justin Trudeau totally dropping the ball on procuring enough vaccine to protect Canadians.
    Weve watched enough back pedaling and enough smoke screens enough “scientific” reversals and political intervention to cause distruss in our health authorities.
    Thank you Justin Trudeau

  46. Not Sure says:

    We are dancing but I don’t think we are going home together. But you did ask me a question and it would be rude not to answer so here goes.

    The article you linked with the question “still ready to take it?” is similar to the ones I already linked, one in each of my last two offerings. I am Not Sure if you even read my links, but I have tried to present both sides, as much as you might think otherwise. To the point though, those articles do say that whatever link there may be to clotting, they know how to treat it.

    The real question Harvey isn’t whether you or I as individuals take astrazeneca or wait for a “better” one, the question is what should Canadians do. Honestly, I doubt that you will be offered astrazeneca, but if you do, it is certainly your choice to wait for however long it takes before you get a different vaccine. But what would you advise my daughter who is 30 and works in a daycare and could get vaccinated in April rather than waiting two or three more months. What would you tell her colleagues, and teachers, police officers, fire fighters and other frontline workers who will be given astrazeneca so they can continue to do their essential work . Should we be scaring all of them off, adding a few extra months and more hospitalizations and deaths before we are fully vaccinated.

    I agree that the messaging surrounding astrazeneca has been horrible. And it probably has something to do with its efficacy. If you care to spend 7 minutes, watch this video . It explains why we can’t compare efficacy scores. It was made as a response to the mayor of Detroit who downplayed the effectiveness of Johnson and Johnson.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

    And I also agree that politics has muddied this whole thing. As a reporter you well know that politics always rears its head. The science is not the problem. The data is there and nobody is questioning it. What is questioned is how we use the data. Is whatever the risk severe enough to stop using astrazeneca? Right now the vast majority of experts are saying to use it. It is safe, effective and the benefits far outweigh the risks. But there are others like you who want more data before proceeding. Politics. And I guess you are part of the political problem and that is not meant as an insult. How can politics be avoided when two people disagree on the amount of evidence needed? We have to trust/hope that the final decision is based on the best scientific evidence available rather than some other political maneuvering.

    I get that you prefer a choice, but if you won’t take astrazeneca why should anybody. So to answer your question: Right now, and I emphasize right now because things could change by the time I finish typing this, I would not be worried about taking astrazeneca.
    NACI and Health Canada as well as the WHO and EU and UK regulators and most EU health authorities have approved it. So who else do we trust?

    Honestly Harvey, I am not 100% convinced that I am right, and if you read back through my other responses, you might be surprised at how many times I have said “you might be right”. We are just trying to find the best truth and move on it.

    New topic???

    (Response: New topic Monday. Already looking forward to your reasons for disagreeing. h.o)

  47. Not Sure says:

    Re: not printing Baker’s French friend because you can’t vouch for her credentials.

    I am a self-admitted non-expert in science to the point where my understanding of modern inventions (airplanes, computers, vaccinations) can be summarized as “it must be magic”. On here my intelligence particularly my reading comprehension has been questioned I have been accused of being an NDP plant and an apologist for Dr. Henry as well as a pusher and pimp for astrazeneca.

    YET, you still publish everything I post.

    So thank you. I guess.

    Not Sure why you already assume that I will disagree with your next topic but if I am Not Sure of something I will most likely look it up and pass it on.

    (Response: As I said if she (or anyone) writes in directly with her comments, and they are on topic, I’d be happy to treat her contribution the same generous way I treat others. But just imagine what would happen to the Comments section of this blog if I allowed anyone to submit whole essays or treatises written by not only themselves but others as well. Each day’s postings could run to thousands of pages. No thank you. h.o)

  48. flatlander says:

    Given there’s a shortage of available vaccine, any pause in rolling out the vaccines which are available will 100% certainly result in more COVID illness and more COVID death than what could otherwise have been experienced. So essentially you’re advocating letting people die in order to investigate a potential side-effect from the vaccine which hasn’t been observed until now. Is it worth it? Depends on how much the population is at risk from COVID vs. how much the population would be at risk from taking the vaccine. I would also point out there’s risks to long-term health associated with the RNA vaccines (Moderna and Pfizer) – and we currently have no idea if those will bite us in a few years.

    It’s all a matter of risk management Harvey, and luckily the world has very smart scientists who have the brains and resources to figure this out. I’ll accept the judgement of the experts on this.

    (Response: So you also think all the countries that suspended AZ when the blood clot issue became known are “advocating letting people die in order to investigate a potential side-effect from the vaccine.” Ridiculous!!! When administering any drug BEFORE it has gone through total clinical analysis over time, governments MUST err on the side of caution. What if after another few weeks, hundreds or thousands started to clot up and die??? The suspension wasn’t that long …and AZ is back in many places … though not all! As for accepting the judgement of experts on this, the problem is the experts are still all over the map on AZ: it’s still not approved in the US; or last I heard in some other countries too; and it has been approved for under 65 in some places and only over 55 in others. How to decide? Well, if AZ was now the ONLY vaccine available, I’d take it; but where others (Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson and Johnson) are available when it’s my turn, I’ll go for those …even if it requires rescheduling. h.o)

  49. Not Sure says:

    Some more information. Poll of seven countries.

    77% of the people in the UK still say that astrazeneca is safe which is about the same as their feelings toward Pfizer 79%.

    In the European countries most feel that astrazeneca is unsafe over 60% in France. This level of distrust has jumped considerably during the past couple of weeks.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/22/european-trust-in-astrazeneca-covid-19-vaccine-plunges-poll-show

    The UK has had a pretty smooth rollout. The EU not so much even before this controversy. And this distrust can only make things worse.

    Canada had a bumpy start but things are slowly moving forward. My concern has been the messaging. There are going to be roller coaster hills. But from what I can tell, Canadian experts havebeen handling the astrazeneca controversy well – certainly better than the confusion in the EU.

    I have no problem with your concerns. They are legitimate questions, but given the current evidence – emphasis on current, I hope Canadians are not as fearful/distrustful as the French.

  50. BMCQ says:

    I have mentioned this before but I am in full support of the so called science but I see far too many inconsistencies, misinformation, disjointed messaging, manipulation of the facts/science, and I see far too much in the way of politics from the Canadian Government, the PM, Dr. WHO/Tam, several Provincial Governments, Provincial Health authorities, many EU Nations, the EU, and many other nations I can see why many do not trust the different governments and health authorities . I can certainly see the concern with Astra Zeneca and I can also see the other side, it now appears that the incidence of blood clotting may indeed be more common with Pfizer and perhaps even Moderna than AZ, again “Who Do You Trust” ? Again, I would wait if my name was up and they offered me AZ, I will more than likely wait if I am offered any of the other three if my wait happens to be over 28 days, pleased see the attached below .

    I fully believe that the EU are playing heap tawdry politics when it comes to their banning of AZ and their own withholding of vaccines, they are willing to risk lives and unfortunately I am not surprised, those bastards will do anything to manipulate the playing field so it suits their ultimate purpose .

    The USA is no different where the Biden Admin and most media are attempting to spin that POTUS Biden brewed up the various vaccines in his basement and there was no roll out or development of the vaccines while the “Bad Orange Man” was President.

    We have just about wrestled this whole story into submission on this very blog but then today I see an NP piece from Diane Francis who I respect very much . I feel Frances gets most everything correct and I feel she is one of the few in media to be objective about any story under any circumstance . I feel Frances is fair and balanced and cares about Canada and Canadians more than the Canadian PM and his Minions .
    Francis is attempting to report facts while the Canadian PM and his Minions are angling to win the next Federal Election . BTW, I wonder which vaccine the Canadian PMs mother received ?

    Therefore I have attached it below . Make up your own mind .

    https://nationalpost.com/diane-francis/diane-francis-new-study-finds-delaying-second-doses-of-covid-vaccine-could-put-lives-at-risk/wcm/79b3e2a4-ec9b-4984-a243-9028e2268f39

  51. 13 says:

    @ BMCQ, Trust is earned . Trust once lost is very difficult to recover. When it comes to media I am sure that I trust Diane Francis. Im not sure I trust a Dr that has no choice but to do the bidding of her (or his just to be pc) political boss. I am sure that I trust my oncologist. The first time ( I have asked him 3 times) and each subsequent time I have inquired about covid vaccination he (she to be pc ) has not even hesitated with a definitive “NO!”. He has made it clear that chemo weakens the immune system and that testing of the vaccines on cancer patients has not been done. I am sure that this Dr knows what hes talking about. I am sure that I trust his ability to give me good advice. Im not sure that Horgan and Trudeau and Dr Henry and Dr Tam are to be trusted. I am sure that because Trudeau completely totally bungled the acquisition of vaccines he has forced health professionals into a corner . Even the science has wriggle room because Trudeau Horgan et al are politicians. Job one for these men (women) is to get reelected. I am absolutely sure that Horgan has demonstrated that fact when he called an unnecessary election last year causing covid to spread for 5 weeks. I am sure that anyone that still trusts these two men is naïve or complicit.

    (Response: More controversy today for AZ: some of the data it provided US authorities in seeking approval was outdated!
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/astrazeneca-us-trial-covid19-outdated-1.5960112. h.o)

  52. BMCQ says:

    13

    Excellent commentary, I hope the vaccines (any vaccine) available or soon available can be reworked/adjusted as time goes on so they can be improved in many many ways but especially for those like you that have a compromised immune system . I am quite sure that in the case of Pfizer the necessity to store at -90C can also be adjusted so the Pfizer could eventually be stored at fridge temps .

    Science has made miracles happen with the vaccines being developed within a year so I am sure they can and will do more .

    I totally agree with you I would trust your own Dr. more than I would the Health Authorities or the Canadian Prime Minister and his minions . Very sad !

    What society needs are more opportunities like we have on this blog so important questions can be asked, questions the working media have basically ignored .

  53. Not Sure says:

    BMCQ, I know you like cheerleading for the US while taking a more critical view of Canada and that is fine. In your response to Beenie in the other thread you said

    “I fully understand you have already made up your mind and you do not want to be confused with the facts …

    BTW – Canadavis so far behind the U.S. and other First World Nations it is ridiculous, I believe Canada is now about 60, how proud does that make you ?”

    And in response to G. Barry in the other thread you said

    “I believe across the U.S. about 70% Republicans now say they will take the Vaccines and Democrats stand at about 85% that is not a huge difference in anyones book ”

    You want facts?

    I have been watching this site: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html

    Unfortunately you have to do your own counting but Canada is ranked 45 (not 60) with 14% vaccinated while Denmark is ranked 23 at 18%. If 70% and 85% is not a huge difference in anyone’s book, what would you call the difference between 14% and 18%.

    But you are right the US is vaccinating more and faster compared to Canada, but you might be interested in this site. You need to scroll a bit to find the stats and you need to click on each of the headings to get the rankings. This gives a more complete picture of the effects of the pandemic. I am just comparing Canada and the US.
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdUOA?Si

    The US ranks 8th with 93,835 cases/million population
    Canada ranks 82nd with 25,664 cases/per million

    The US ranks 14th with 1694 deaths/million
    Canada ranks 61st with 603 deaths/million

    And if you are wondering if those figures are from the beginning of the pandemic and don’t show the effect of the much higher vaccination rate in the US you might be interested in this site.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+deaths+canada+march+28&rlz=1CACCCC_enCA881&oq=covid+deaths+canada+march+28&aqs=chrome..69i57j33l3.11926j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Over the past week the daily average of new cases in the US is 65,385 with a daily average of 995 deaths while Canada’s daily average over the same period is 4715 new cases and 26 deaths. If we multiply the Canada numbers by 9 to account for population difference we get

    US 65,385 vs Canada 42,435 new cases per day and US 995 deaths vs Canada 234 deaths per day.

    If we consider the pandemic only, Canada would appear to have been the safer place to be over the past year and so far it continues to be so.

    And yes things can change and yes there may be other factors to consider which is why it is foolish to be making these comparisons at all. Canada may not be perfect but the US has been less perfect. Continue cheerleading if you wish.

  54. BMCQ says:

    Thanks for the effort put in with this, I will find time to follow up in the next day .

    Fortunately I am very busy with work, we happen to be in fields that are very busy due to the circumstances of Covid so I might not see all stats and info available but I believe Canada was about number 60 not to long ago so I am sure you can allow me that .

    As to cheering for the U.S. ?

    I am a huge supporter and believer of the U.S. in spite of their warts and mistakes, i have business there and three homes over the years and love the American Spirit and I appreciate where we/the world are today because of the U.S. .

    In the case of the Vax Roll Out in the U.S. , some on this blog were very critical of the U.S. efforts during Covid and forecast that the U.S. would be a dismal failure and millions would die because of the Trump Admin etc..

    I know/knew that would not be the case and I also knew that the Canadian Gov and the PM were at best laggards and morons endangering the lives of Canadians at best with their ignorance and inability to plan by simply taking steps to secure contracts for vaccines of any brand but especially the ones known to be developing quickly .

    I am very critical of “Canadian Superiority”, yes we are different than America and Americans in many ways but we are also very special to each in many more ways and I believe Canadians should appreciate our U.S. neighbour/neighbours more .

    As stated I spend a lot of time in the U.S., I interact with many Americans in my personal life and business life and I HAVE NEVER heard any Americans name call Canadians or express hatred or disrespect toward Canadians yet I hear Canadians in person and in the media disrespect America and Americans virtually every single day of my life and I do not understand it .

    Again, thanks I will read the attached material .

  55. BMCQ says:

    BTW

    I find it incredible that Governments and Health Authorities cannot seem to draw any scientific consensus on Astra Zeneca, far too much in the way of politics .

    The reversals on everything concerning AZ and some of the other vaccines creates distrust and questions amongst the Great Unwashed, it is no wonder the public are “Not Sure” what to think .

    This whole scenario is nothing less than a “S” Show andis more than likely already causing illness and possible loss of life
    Shameful !

    (Response: So Canada is now doing what I suggested should be done March 14. Remember all the heat I got on here for that! Again, I feel vindicated. h.o)

  56. BMCQ says:

    Harvey

    I find it more than ridiculous that you a retired journalist were doing a better job on this than the so called working media .

    (Response: Maybe because instead of being a government messenger, my care, concern, loyalties lean more to the people, the workers, the hard-working business owners/managers who follow the rules. Watch for my next Blog: I’ll recommend a solution to get BC out of the current “collective punishment” . h.o)

  57. Not Sure says:

    BMCQ there is no doubt that there will questions when this is all over. Nobody will be immune (pun intended) from criticism.

    I hate this game of comparing countries and rollouts and vaccines. The numbers could change next week, next month, next year. We are in the bottom of the fourth inning and people think the game is over and are either celebrating a win because of the vaccine or given up completely and walking out of the stadium. Everybody was talking about the end of the summer when we would be over the hump. We are just approaching April. Still plenty of roller coaster hills to go.

    And to be clear, I was not trying to make Canada look superior to the US, I was simply showing you that the vaccine rollout is not the only numbers that indicate success. Australia and South Korea have vaccinated about 2% of their population. Japan and New Zealand less than 1%.

    Sometimes I think it is best to just shut social media off but I venture onto twitter and read non experts telling everybody what we should do based on nothing. Even Harvey’s blog where nearly everybody’s opinion is backed by some kind of facts is confusing because we are all over the map ourselves.

    The health professionals are the ones we need to listen to. When they say pause, I have no problem with the pause. When they say start using, I am good with that.Yes we can second guess them but it might be best to do that when it is all over. I don’t see how it helps to be hyper critical in the middle of this. They are basing their decisions with the best information they have. I doubt they are listening to us.

    Anyway, all things considered, we are on the same side.

  58. BMCQ says:

    Contrary to what some may think it IS NOT a game comparing the various roll outs of different countries, states, provinces, or even regions, this is serious business and mistakes made affect how people live, it affects business, freedom of movement, health of almost everyone and anyone especially those that eventually succumb and die due to C – 19 and it affects the so called Long Haulers who may never recover, the jury is still out on that, this whole question and circumstance is literally a “Deadly Business” and no matter how polite some seem to want to be the result of C – 19 infection t means lives can end just because a Prime Minister and his Government are asleep at the switch and life saving vaccines are not secured in a timely manner .

    The Great Unwashed of Canada need to be informed of every single mistake the Federal Government, the PM, his Procurement Minister, Dr. WHO/Tam, any Provincial Premier or the Health Officials make right this country, whether it be Astra Zeneca and the Flip Flops or any other misinformation provided the public in general over the past 18 months . Let’s be honest there are more flip flops with AZ than you might see at a country fair Flap Jack Breakfast !!

    Over 65 ? under 55 ? next thing we know if they find out Astra Zeneca might be possibly a problem for all citizens regardless of age, gender, ethnicity or religion the only people that will receive the questionable AZ jab will be White Heterosexual Males that vote Conservative, after all, they are fore sure expendable .

    Think of this next time you consider disjointed, inconsistent, questionable, and in fact untruthful information you hear from Politicians or Health authorities about AZ, Masks, Pfizer, Modena, Social Distancing for all but BLM, Antifa, and other anti government protesters, and the rest that affects our very ability to live and breath .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_edxN5kkBtc

    Let’s be honest here, whether it be Astra Zeneca, Masks or so many other messaging regarding Covid – 19 the public can become confused and in fact resentful with the disjointed truth stretching inconsistencies passed down from our Political Masters and Health authorities .

    And all of this time the media have been sleep walking through this whole Modern Day Tragedy, we could still end up in a situation similar to the EU in the 1600’s .

    (Edited…off topic)

    Attached is something you might find interesting regarding Astra Zeneca, I wonder if the jab the woman received was close to “Stale Dated” ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_edxN5kkBtc

    Yes I am more than well aware that some of us can experience reactions to almost anything all we need to do is look at Peanut Butter and the experiences some get from various medication but I truly believe Astra Zeneca needs another look especially when we see totally contradictory decisions and recommendations made by health authorities and any given government world wide .

    Enjoy the Easter Weekend if I dare say Easter Weekend !

    (Response: Astra Zeneca is not produced in China. h.o)

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