BC Government’s Mixed Messages Helping Spread Covid

Law-abiding and rule-respecting British Columbians are suffering: we can’t gather with family and friends; we can’t play hockey or soccer or even curl in groups; we can’t visit loved ones in hospital or long-term care homes; our kids can’t have birthday parties; we can’t worship in church/temples/mosques/synagogues or even attend weddings/funerals; and, it’s looking like they won’t want us to celebrate Christmas, New Year or Hanukkah with those in our social circle either.

BC is hurting.

Tens of thousands of British Columbians are out of jobs or getting only reduced work hours or have had their businesses shut down or so severely restricted, they are facing obliteration …or have already failed.

This is the result of Public Health Orders imposed on us for months now, updates and new rules regularly announced with great solemnity by Public Health Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and Health Minister Adrian Dix.

All part of the big fight against Covid … and most us care, go along and support measures to conquer this vicious virus.

The Orders are quite strict, and if government bureaucrats or police catch you … a FEW of you together …violating these strictures, YOU will get heavily fined and punished.

Unless you get hundreds together, gather to PARTY on Granville Street or rally hundreds to PROTEST something … whether here or even thousands of miles away … and then BC looks the other way!

Police will even assist your marshalling/gathering … just call it a rally … and then no limits on how many can congregate, no masks required, no distancing enforced and not likely anyone, not even the organizer(s), will face tickets, charges or fines at all.

Why?

For the same reason I wrote about a few weeks ago that Dr. Henry and the BC government imposed a highly restrictive Public Health Order all the way from Vancouver to Hope, rather than zero in on the particular areas where Covid was running totally amok … in Fraser Health, and especially South Surrey.

Because the BC government is weak: afraid to identify/offend specific regional, geographical or ethnic communities where large numbers are ignoring/thumbing their noses at the rules the rest of us are following.

We can understand … although not like it … when No-Maskers (people most of us regard as ignorant, misdirected, or just wackos, egged on by anarchists) hold rallies deliberately violating Public Health Orders.

BUT when hundreds of BC citizens who know better and understand the dangers of Covid, still ignore the restrictions on movement and gathering that the rest of us have been respecting, enduring and hurting under so much for so long, and mass together, shoulder to shoulder to hold a rally, complete with chanting, shouting and speeches … they are thumbing their noses at the government and their fellow British Columbians.

Saturday, HUNDREDS turned out in Vancouver to rally on behalf of farmers in the Punjab, involved in a dispute with the Indian government. ( http://Large crowds turn out for 2nd B.C. convoy supporting Indian farmers | Globalnews.ca)

And this was the SECOND such rally in less than a week …. also drawing HUNDREDS (https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/second-car-rally-farmers-india-cloverdale-to-vancouver).

Just think of everything Dr Henry and Dix have told us about how Covid can spread: from one to another, at home, in social gatherings, on transit, in grocery stores, restaurants, shops, offices, and schools … everywhere.

So, how many British Columbians will get Covid as a result of these rallies, as the HUNDREDS who were there circulate over the next two weeks? How many people who were not there will require hospitalization? How many who were not there will die ???????

How many tickets were issued? Were organizers charged? Was there a free pass policy?

If THEY can gather outside in large numbers with impunity to protest, why can’t WE gather outside in small numbers to play sports, celebrate our family events, holidays?

People ARE watching!

BC officials are sending MIXED MESSAGES by allowing one set of rules for some (enforcements ignored) and a stricter set of rules for the rest of us (rules enforced).

The result will be NO ONE will pay attention any more … and Dr Henry and Dix will both lose credibility.

And THEY will be helping Covid spread.

Harv Oberfeld

(Follow @harveyoberfeld on Twitter for FREE First Alerts of new postings on this Blog. And feel free to pass on or republish this Blog elsewhere: expand the conversation!)

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48 Responses to BC Government’s Mixed Messages Helping Spread Covid

  1. D. M. Johnston says:

    The NDP are losing it.

    I firmly believe that Horgan and the NDP threw caution into the win with their recent election, trying to score a total knock-out of the BC Liberals, a la 2001. Even though the Liberals were being lead by a walking, talking cadaver, a win would have been assured in 2021, the NDP put public health second and made an electoral win first.

    With the government in stasis and confusing rules regarding Covid-19, for five weeks, this nasty little virus spread like wild fire.

    The results are now plain to see, not so total lockdown, pandering to ethnic groups and letting renegade churches open, defying the rules.

    Horgan’s and the NDP election has come on an ever growing mountain of the dead and are in complete denial.

    Horgan would rather cut ribbons in front to SkyTrain extensions or glad handing billions in relief, than trying to tame Covid-19. He does not really care and it shows.

    We should have known what was going to transpire, when the NDP threw the grade 12, 2020 graduating class under the bus. The old political claim, “Children come first”, was left by the road as Horgan was far too worried making sure bus drivers would not go on EI and recive full wages during the pandemic.

    The NDP’s handling of Covid was shaky at the start, improved in the summer and now has completely fallen to pieces.

    Even Vancouver’s top slum-lord fired his now infamous anthem singer, yet Horgan stays mum on the anti mask/anti vaxxer crowd. Religious extremist are holding services in churches defying health edicts; the NDP do nothing, not even fining them any more.

    Simple solution, arrest the anti crowd for public nuisance or more; seize dissenting churches and arrest congregations.

    This is about public health, nothing more.

    The NDP are fast losing credibility as Horgan hides, pushing PSA’s about how good the NDP are or what is the flavour of mega project today.

    Ontario and Alberta are very good examples of provinces run by political zealots, who put their agenda first, until the death tolls have become more than embarrassing and Horgan’s NDP, despite the soft sell by BS Baldry and Global/Dead dog 98 are fast becoming more of the same – politics trumps public health.

    As for credibility, the NDP have very little and Henry’s is fast sinking like the Titanic.

    As a reminder, 2021 will make 2020 look like a cakewalk and not one politician, either civically, provincially or federally are preparing for it and the taxpayer will be utterly shocked at the sticker price of the political largess of 2020.

    (Response: Part of the reason the NDP is getting away with its mishandling of these HUGE crowd events is too many of the media are spineless: Where were the hard questions to the rally organizers, participants, police or government; Where are the challenging rebuttals to “spin” answers from Dix/Horgan; where are the hard questions to Henry about the clearly hypocritical double standards we now see almost everywhere (churches, sports games, family gatherings, funerals: NO … huge rallies, protests, people crowded together, many no masks, shouting, giving speeches: OK). How many tickets were handed out; who were charged for organizing such a dangerous events? Are Public Health Orders really ORDERS … or just SUGGESTIONS? WHERE is the outrage on our behalf? Where are the HARD questions from the media???? Don’t be surprised if Henry and Dix start regularly sporting sandals to Press Conferences or Interviews: no fear of having their feet put to the fire these days. h.o)

  2. Marge says:

    Any kind of rally is acceptable to the government, as long as it supports their agenda and looks like it will garner votes. Has Trudeau attended any of the farm rallies? Have members of the Liberals or the NDP here in BC? I am sure they have.

    Trudeau certainly thought it was okay to do a BLM rally earlier in the year but now tells us we have to avoid Christmas gatherings. Bet he and Maggie and his brother and relatives are together this holiday season! Will he take a holiday after Christmas? I hear Mexico will be opening for business come January.

    So to tell the rest of us not to gather, not to have family drive across the border to visit (yet flying across is perfectly acceptable, go figure), no Christmas dinners, no family get togethers is such hypocrisy. But hey it’s government and they get elected by being hypocrites and turning the other way when it suits them. They just hope we don’t notice and are happy to get the $1000 checks in January. Isn’t that payment enough for buying our votes and keeping silent about all of this? And they just got a majority in government, so who is going to notice anyway?

    Only when your loved ones get sick and the hospitals are packed with idiots who didn’t obey the rules will anyone notice. Too late but hey it wasn’t the government’s fault.

    (Response: I believe it IS the government’s fault. If fines and tickets and charges were laid wherever and whenever possible earlier in the week against the organizers or those who participated in the first rally, I’d bet there would NOT have been a second rally Saturday!!! Dix and Henry have to realize the rest of us are watching … and are getting fed up with picking on families and sports enthusiasts and groups who want to mark weddings and funerals and Christmas etc. while the government, police and health officials do little or nothing when LARGE groups of hundreds thumb their noses at rules, restrictions and place so many others in danger! h.o)

  3. 13 says:

    Global showed a group of Sikh gentlemen surrounding a speaker before the “rally ” launched from Cloverdale. All were wearing masks except for one in the back row. I told my wife to keep an eye on him. Someone in the crowd must have told him your on camera and you are not masked. He began fishing through his pockets . The struggle was hilarious. He found a mask and they carried on.
    We are AFFRAID to call out anybad behavior by any visible minority because in this day and age you are labeled a racist. That term is so over used that if someone calls me racist I dont respond nor do I care.

    (Edited…off topic.)

    Enough of the PC BS Doctor Henry and Minister Dix.
    If you can save lives by charging a location , an event, a neighborhood, where covid is being spread dont OVERREACH. Have the guts to be specific even if they call you racist.

    (Response: I don’t think British Columbians care what group people belong to: if they are ignoring, thumbing their noses at health directives designed to save our lives … ticket them up and down, charge their organizers HUGE fines if warranted. Just don’t tell the REST OF US we can’t do things that the government and health officials ignore when some other apparently privileged groups can do it. Henry and Dix should be very concerned that by giving free passes to some, THEY are creating a situation where increasing numbers of people will say “If others don’t have to do it, why the hell should we?” h.o)

  4. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey

    lets talk about covid paranoia and who is truly affected.

    my wife is ill so am i , i reached out to someone who i respect for help, the person was there for me kudos great thanks.

    mission fire and mission ambulance spent a total of 45 or so minutes stabilizing my wife. my blood pressure and heart issues are acting up. this is not about me it is about lisa. the hospital wanted to transfer lisa to abbotsford hospital, chose not to due to covid risk

    covid is real anti maskers , really?.

    you anti covd people are killing my wife.

    (Response: I have no doubt, Harry, everyone who reads this Blog has great care and concern for you and your wife. Let’s hope and pray she does not have Covid … and we all know, including me from my personal experiences, there are also many other serious/critical issues we all face as we get older. But, as you indicate, we sure don’t need others deliberately making things worse! h.o)

  5. r says:

    low hanging fruit?

  6. NVG says:

    It seems to me that the organizers of the illegal motorcade rally should be labelled, charged as terrorists, no different than “On June 23, 1985, a bomb exploded on Air India Flight 182 en route from Toronto to London, England killing all 329 people aboard, most of them Canadians. Twenty-five years later, the Air India bombing is still the worst terrorist attack in Canadian history.

    https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/ntnl-scrt/cntr-trrrsm/r-nd-flght-182/index-en.aspx

    (Response: Ridiculous. h.o)

  7. 13 says:

    Harry its maddening. A family that were close to living in Abbotsford . Son inlaw brings home covid and passes it on to his wife. She is also fighting cancer that has spread and one of their 3 children has covid. The wives aged parents the dad is on his last leg fighting throat and lung cancer tested negative for covid but his wife is positive.
    Personally im dealing with my own health issues . Its difficult to hear the anti vax anti mask rhetoric.
    If you compound the deniers with the NDP mismanagement because they are afraid to offend (fill in the blank) the situation can and does seem hopeless.
    In some sad way Im glad my parents and my wives parents arent alive . I can’t imagine the fear and anxiety that would cause.

    (Response: On Friday, Dr Henry reported 711 new Covid cases in BC, and 11 deaths. That brought BC’s total known deaths from the virus to 492; she also reported 36,133 total BC Covid cases. The vast majority of the public ARE complying with masks and distancing and gathering rules: we do want to defeat the virus. BUT if Henry and Dix are making special excuses/allowances for some or laying off enforcing the rules for some … then the numbers of those ignoring the rules will grow .. Covid will escalate and it will be the BC government’s fault. h.o)

  8. DBW says:

    There is no doubt that the response to covid 19 has been challenging. Things that were said back in March are not applicable today as we respond to fluid situations. But the message right now is not mixed. Every province right across Canada is saying the same thing. Wear a mask. Wash your hands. Social Distance. Don’t go to work when sick. Keep within your bubble. No large social gatherings etc.

    What seems to be at issue is not the message, but how governments respond to people who flout the recommendations. And in this specific post you are talking about protesters. I have read about people being fined for having card games in their garage after a warning mind you, yet nobody got fined for taking part in a protest. Frustrating for sure. Here is what the police had to say about the protest at the art gallery.

    “They (police at the scene) must weigh a citizen’s right to peacefully protest with the current potential harm of gatherings … Mass arrests are not possible or desirable. Ticketing and arrests could escalate an already passionate situation, and when there are larger groups of people, the risk of injury to both protesters and police officers rises.”

    You can say that is BS but arresting people and filling paddy wagons and jail cells may be more dangerous than letting them march. And sure you can ticket them but if they don’t identify themselves the only recourse is arrest.

    I am not defending the protesters. They piss me off with their Bill Gates and Qanon nonsense. And I am not sure if Modi is paying any attention to our Indian neighbours. I am just hoping most stayed inside their cars and wore masks and social distanced when not. I wish neither had occurred but what I saw on TV wasn’t anything like the BLM protests, the street celebrations when Biden was declared the winner or a Trump rally or even the downtown Vancouver Halloween party.

    Do you think the government/law enforcement has been too lenient with all rule breakers or are you just looking at the protests of the last few days with this post. And how would you feel about say a large group of small business owners protesting the rules that they have to follow. Should their voices be silenced?

    I am not asking these for argument sake. But this is not simple stuff. When we change laws like speed limits, we study them and then implement them slowly. We can’t do that here.

    Maybe the government will have to get more draconian with their punishments, but I wish for the sake of people like Harry, that everybody would just follow the guidelines. It seems so easy.

    (Response: I understand, and I believe most British Columbians do also, that police have to use their judgement about whether/when/how enforcing the Order can be safely done. They should have ticketed, charged or done whatever the law allows to the leaders/organizers of various rallies/protests after earlier rallies last week or previously. However, to do nothing concrete will just encourage further rule-breaking…. not just by those holding large rallies etc…but everyone else as well. h.o)

  9. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey

    thanks for the concern ,

    allow me to send a message to MR DIX

    Sir with respect,

    my wife is not doing good , you close senior centers and other physiotherapy places yet bars and restaurants are open. like really . my wife is dying before my eyes cant even get a social worker or home support to call, despite many request lol

    how many others are like this in bc

  10. nonconfidencevote says:

    I drove past another demonstration at the VAG today, anti Communist China Party rally.
    The police dutifully organizing the caravan of vehicles and people (most wearing masks) to the demonstration.

    God forbid our authorities stop a demonstration at the VAG……

    Speaking of illegal gatherings…..
    I also drove past the garbage strewn , shack city ( the “tents” are becoming permanent wooden structures) at Strathcona Park today ….(apparently before the latest dead body was discovered this morning since there were no police around)……..
    Covid, City Park squatters, whatever……

    ALL the result of politically correct, confrontational adverse, cowering, spineless politicians at the |Federal, Provincial and Municipal level.

    Not one of them is willing to make ANY unpopular decision and then stick to it.

    Oh , and a note to the govt agencies pumping out “Dr Bonnie Henry -Can’t we all just get along) advertisements by the truck load……….
    Her curb appeal is done.
    No one is listening anymore……time for a new “Talking Head” to pump out the message.

    (Response: Political correctness is killing Vancouver: the far left members of City Council and Park Board, in my opinion. cater to only their base and regard the majority of the citizens (taxpayers) as the enemy. Whose fault is that? I blame those working taxpayers (owners and renters) who are little more than a source of funding, but failed to show up to vote in the last municipal election. But the REAL critical problem we are ALL facing now is Covid … which has crippled and killed people from every economic/political strata. And it’s the duty of the provincial government to marshal the necessary forces to stop it, and that includes everyone … cracking down on ALL deliberate violators, big party gatherings and rally/protest organizers who aren’t just making mistakes, but actually organize massive events that they KNOW can spread Covid to hundreds, maybe thousands more. And it’s about time the media stopped being friends of Horgan, Dix and Dr Henry and start representing US …the people … by challenging their failures, weaknesses, political correctness and asking the tough questions about WHY they are giving free passes to some HUGE violators, while cracking down on the rest of us. h.o)

  11. D. M. Johnston says:

    @ Harry Lawson, you have my full concern and I do hope things get better.

    I just turned 65 and have a pre existing condition which can turn toxic without warning. I have been in hospital with it 4 times in the past decade and I have learned to deal with it. If I catch Covid, it may or may not be dangerous, I don’t know, as my body seems to flat line with a bacterial infections; a viral infection is unknown territory.

    I do go out, masked of course, I have one friend I see and he is in my small bubble. My kids have been very good at isolation and when big gatherings were banned, they isolated themselves. Kids just got to go out, but they go and work fully masked and very careful, I have no complaint. My wide is a CDA and is checked and re checked daily at her dental office.

    My gorge rises with anti maskers and anti vax’ers, as well a religious zealots who temp fate by going to church services unmasked.

    Horgan and his NDP seem unable to deal with it and except for calling these deeply deluded people nasty names.

    Premier Horgan, you are the premier, recently elected with a large majority and now it is your task to lead, so bloody well lead. You did not get elected to hide, cowering in the halls of the legislature, you must lead or resign your office. Accept the blame for the high mortality toll, but damn well lead!

    The public have been told, over and over again by government, to be prepared for the “big one”; everyone must have a plan B. I do, a small gardeners cart with a flat of water, small butane stove, basic food and medical supplies and a small tent. Where was the government’s plan B?

    They did not have one! Not even a hint of one! Now, we see the effects of government without any real plan, making it up on the way and the result, we see today. Ad-hoc, band aides and restrictions that confuse more than educates.

    And the now the pensioners, the government has done diddly squat, as Mr. Lawson has so well pointed out. Oh, there is $1000 for people earning under $175K – (really, I thought under $50k would be a much more realistic mark) but for pensioners, nada, nope nothing. This is “we care for you” NDP we are talking about.

    Horgan and his mob only care for their base and their political friends. A sad reflection on a so called peoples political party.

  12. Jason says:

    It’s a difficult balancing act, when faced with the twin poles of a very real public health emergency and the right of free speech and peaceful assembly. I remember reading an opinion piece in Maclean’s back in Summer. The author suggested that COVID cases would skyrocket in the Winter and that the Federal Government would be forced to invoke the Emergency Act to give the Government the power to deal more forcefully with the pandemic.

    The idea of completely suspending Civil Liberties outside of invasion or insurrection makes me nervous but I think the time has come for Civil Government to flex its muscles a bit. Perhaps the next time the anti mask fanatics try to demonstrate, the city police should order them to disperse within a few minutes or face arrest. I’m sure most, except for a few true believing zealots, would leave. A couple of dozen arrests and quick prosecutions for the ringleaders might send a message to dampen the enthusiasm of anyone else who wants to try something similar. Of course, it might turn them into martyrs but hopefully we’ll be closer to herd immunity with mass vaccination by that point.

    Slightly off-topic, but ‘NVG’ might not be so far off the mark. Some of what happened at the protests on the 4th was pretty outrageous. I saw footage, on Global and CBC, of protestors with posters of Jarnail Singh Bhindranwale, signs that read ‘Khalistan Zindabad’, and a few Jeeps that appeared to have been painted to give them a vaguely military looking appearance (clearly designed to intimidate, not exactly the hallmark of peaceful protest). I get the feeling an extremist element has infiltrated these agricultural protests. I’m actually quite amazed that no one in the media picked up on it, particularly since it was right in front of their noses.

    (Response: First, re your last point: you should not be “amazed that no one in the media picked up on it”. These days, sometimes all they send to these events are a camera, no reporter, or if they send a “reporter”, it’s someone who I believe would not even be aware of the history of what the signs refer to and certainly would lack the knowledge, backbone to question them on it… much more comfortable covering traffic accidents, fires and lost puppies. As for the civil liberties question, I too realize the danger in restricting free speech and thought about that: but it’s one of those cases where freedom of speech does not extend to yelling out FIRE in a crowded movie theatre. Our whole society …representing every point of view politically, economically, ethnically and religiously … is facing a grim, deadly health crisis: no one is saying people must stay silent or can’t protest or even picket or demonstrate 24 hours a day … in keeping with Public Health Orders that apply to everyone. Sure…have some people outside any particular consulate, or office or hold a driving motorcade with signs and flags and honking or whatever that RESPECTS the distancing rules and doesn’t potentially KILL people! And we all know today how powerful the Internet, social media and virtual events can be. But for any group … there were apparently four large protest gatherings this past week alone … to mingle by the hundreds in close proximity to each other, some without masks, shouting and making speeches will spread Covid over the next few weeks to potentially thousands of innocent others. And the government is encouraging that Covid spread by giving the leaders/organizers of such events a free pass, even if the Public Health Orders are brazenly ignored. h.o)

  13. 13 says:

    Dbw wrote a nice piece. Almost soothing in tone and trying to placate with out finger pointing. He tosses a grenade into the mix likening protestors to Gates/Qanon conspiracists.
    Governments must be happy with that level of criticism.
    Then he points out that mass arrests , paddy wagons, etc are not real options. Agreed
    But perhaps the level of enforcement needs to rise to a level that begins to show some respect for the rule of law ,public safety, public property. Oppenheimer, Strathcona, and the many other public parks that have been battlegrounds.
    The mobile protest started at the Cloverdale fair grounds. Was permission granted from the facility? If not then perhaps the fair ground carries some responsibility.
    A warning to all those involved that the COV will not tolerate any illegal blockades.
    Look at recent protests blockading downtown intersections. Protests blockading YVR.
    Make the protestors uncomfortable. When the contact tracers show that the car rally was a point of transmission and people get sick and some die the rally organizers, the Cloverdale Arena, RCMP , VPD can all sit back and be proud of the work not done
    I realize that trying to stop this activity after allowing it (COV encouraging it) for so long wont be easy. Now that I think about it there is a solution. Sell your home and get the hell out of dodge.

    (Response: Enforcement does not require confrontation. The government … including police, health authorities … know exactly who was/is organizing and speaking at these events: what we need is for the NDP government to put public health FIRST and political correctness or opportunism second and direct the authorities to proceed with charges, tickets, prosecutions wherever they can against large scale violators …instead of zeroing in on families and restaurant owners just trying to survive. h.o)

  14. 13 says:

    BTW KUDOS to the Canucks for firing the anthem singer. the rarely seen consequence

  15. Keith says:

    Recently Trudeau was forcefully asking the officials in the provinces to start tightening up restrictions, and also had something to say specifically about the crowds on the beaches in Vancouver during the summer. I would hope he puts in a call to J. Horgan about the recent gong shows and remind him don’t come whining to the feds. for money and increased vaccines at a later date if you let the virus run riot.

    Oh. it’s just been found in a mink farm in the Fraser valley.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-outbreak-declared-at-mink-farm-in-b-c-s-fraser-valley-1.5830779#:~:text=8%20people%20have%20tested%20positive,farm%20are%20undergoing%20tests%20too&text=Officials%20have%20declared%20an%20outbreak,tested%20positive%20for%20the%20disease.

    Horgan has a majority with only a couple of months into a 4 year term, if he brings the hammer down i can’t see adown side. the scofflaws affected mostly wouldn’t be voting for him, and the rest of us would be breathing a little easier, and would remember 4 years from now .

    If the laws are on the books, enforce them, if the fines aren’t enough of a deterrent increase them, not enough cops? bring more in from surrounding areas and other peace officers with those powers.

    Get the Premier in front of a camera with the Attorney general and any other ministers responsible for public health and safety and explain the consequences of further actions contrary to the relevant laws and public health orders in two syllable words.

    If the affected groups don’t like it, go through the process and take it to the Supreme Court of Canada.

    (Responsibility: You’re absolutely correct: Horgan has a majority and it’s a long time until the next election. He CAN exercise authority, especially to save lives! Not by picking on families, kids, sports enthusiasts, restaurants and small business operators … but the BIG offenders, who are deliberately organizing and gathering together hundreds of people for all kinds of pet projects …thumbing their noses at Horgan, Dix and Dr Henry! How many cases of Covid will hit BC as a result of the FOUR demonstrations/protests attended by hundreds in just the past week???? THEY should be targeted, not just ordinary people … or the government and health authorities can only blame themselves if they do nothing against the BIG OFFENDERS and then the rest of stop paying attention to them and their apparently toothless Orders. h.o)

  16. BMCQ says:

    Harry

    God Bless you and your wife, it is more than despicable that the Province of B.C. the City of Vancouver and other cities like Victoria are doing more for the drug addled criminal element, many of whom come to B.C. from other provinces on non-returnable warrants than they are about people like you and others in the same position as you and your wife. “SHAME”

    Harvey

    Your analysis could not be any better, as I have mentioned to you before your Blog Piece should be reprinted and broadcast in media right across this country .

    There are some really good comments here, especially the last one by 13 and the comment posted by NonCon and your absolutely excellent response, really great stuff .

    I will not add much as DMJ, Marge, Harry, and others, do not agree with all of DBW’s points but none the less it is as always interesting .

    I have been stating this for years and on other formats but how is anyone that protests masks, lockdowns, restrictions, the Indian Farmers protests, riots or other protests or anything else related expect to be treated seriously when our streets are loaded each and every day with BLM, Antifa, Indigenous protests, open drug use, open acts of prostitution, street fighting, defecating and urinating mostly all unmasked in the streets and so much more without a nod from law enforcement or our PC SJ politicians ?

    There is absolutely No accountability for any of those things and our society, or should I say our politicians have set the ground rules and those rules are “Absolutely Any Goes” .

    Should we really be surprised ?

    I would like to see what would happen if a church group of 200 decided to hold a social distanced masked service at the intersection of Denman and Georgia on a Friday at 4:00 PM, how do you think that would go ?

    I believe that protesters in support of the Indian Farmers actually blocked the Golden Gate Bridge, if true, I am not surprised as it is after all California and SFO .

    I under stand the right to protest but how can any of us justify any special interest group continually blocking our streets, intersections, railways, or any other public route . Why should people that pay taxes, travel to and from work each and every day for say 40 years be inconvenienced and blocked from getting to work or home to their families after a hard days work for special interests that do not work or contribute to our society ?

    Then there is the fact that I for one (and I am sure I will be in the minority here) find it abhorrent and unacceptable that people that settle in any given country take to the streets of Canada to protest what is going on back in their home country .

    I sympathize with the Indian Farmers and yes I sympathize with the protesters masked or unmasked but I do not want them blocking my ability to go about my business when they are protesting something back home in India, Sweden, Botswana, or Belgium .

    Special Interests and those that play the Identity Politics Game should be directed to a larger venue like Confederation Park or any other large area in any given area that does not hinder local traffic or business, let them protest and agitate there, .

    The Media can then set up “Forever” Cameras that will record any given event on any given day and the feed will go to all media outlets where it can be then shown to the “Great Unwashed” wherever we might be .

    Enough is enough, time for law enforcement and politicians do the jobs they were elected and hired to do .

    I swear, the only time anyone in YVR faces the maximum from law enforcement these days is if you happen to sprinkle your lawn on the wrong day in August, then they come for you with the full force of the law .

    God Speed Harry !!

    (Response: I totally believe in and support equality: doesn’t matter to me whether it’s a farmers’ protest or church service etc … it’s about a killer virus spreading through close contact. Period! If the Public Health Officer issues an Order, even if I disagree with it or find it too expansive, I feel it should be obeyed, as closely as possible if not perfectly, to be honest. Accordingly I have cancelled a number of planned social outings over the past couple of weeks. So I get it …and I believe the overwhelming majority of British Columbians do too. BUT if the NDP government, because of weakness or political fear and deference, enforces Orders among some, but not others, they are sowing the seeds of disobedience and furthering the spread of Covid. h.o)

  17. e.a.f. says:

    The NDP are losing it? a ranking of popular to unpopular Premiers in Canada, still had Horgan as the most popular.

    yes, I was a bit surprised about the protest. It ought not to have gone on. On the other hand, it would have gone on with or without permission. Its sort of like the 411 gatherings each year. If they had all stayed in their cars it would have been fine, but they didn’t. As to protesting something in another country, well that isn’t an issue really in my opinion. A lot of us have protested things going on in other countries and no one batted an eye about it. It was important. Of course they weren’t during COVID.

    People go to these protests, etc because they think its more important than their health. what they don’t seem to want to deal with is how they impact some one else’s health. Many have grown up in an environment where modern medicine cures just about anything. Back in the early 90s or late 80s I read an article which advised the murder rate on the DTES had gone down but the attempted murder rate was up. (still had a lot of old time bars then) They discovered the reason was because the Paramedics had gotten so good at dealing with knife wounds people no longer died, they got them to St. Pauls and all was good. St. Paul’s got good at knife wounds also. Its like after the free way to Hope was built, head injuries went to Royal Columbian. As a result, those doctors got very good at head injuries, it got to be the place to go.

    Many people today have never lived in a time where modern medicine couldn’t take care of things. For some of us, we remember when you died from Polio. Not only did people die, others never fully recovered (long haulers). Cancer is no longer the death sentence it once was. My take on it is, people think they are invincible. I know different. I started Grade one with another child whose Father had died due to Polio and her Mother was confined to a wheelchair for life. Made a big impression on me and I’ve never forgotten disease can kill and destroy. AIDS, same thing. One person I knew when asked how he was replied, not good, I’ve been to a 100 funerals so far this year (and it was oct./nov.

    People just don’t think it can happen to them.

    A protest as large as the one you are discussing, sending in the police would might have just added to the problem and gotten police exposed to the virus.

    The sibling and I started protocols mid Feb and had the house stocked by mid march. we’re still in that space. I go out for groceries about once every two or three weeks at a time when the store is fairly empty. the rest of the time, I’m home or going for walks. The hair stylist has all the protocols in place and so that is fine. Not going to catch anything there. Its cleaner than some hospitals.

    You can’t cure stupid and you can’t legislate it away. You pick your battles where and when you can. I believe the government has done that fairly successfully. If we do not protest inequities in other countries, than we are condoning them. We’ve protested injustices in Iran, China, Russia, U.S.A., various countries in Europe, Asia, etc. Now its India. Its just bad timing, with COVID and the organizers might have given that some thought. As to blocking a major artery, been there, done that, get over it., Its part of the protestors’ hand book, or no its called the “shit disturber’s hand book”. Come to think of it, in the mid 70s no planes where flying in any major city in Canada. Why–protests, illegal, was I involved? You bet. Any one mention it, not so much, just news but then we were all European descent, oh and no covid. did we disrupt commerce in this country? you bet. Protests are meant to inconvience as many as possible, but then I’ve been at it since oh the late 60s.

    Don’t blame the government for this. It was going to happen with or without their permission. Its how its done.

    Response: You write “people go to these protests, etc because they think its more important than their health.”. That’s fine …IF they then go home afterwards and immediately isolate for 14 days, so the only people whose lives they threaten are their own. But they have a lot of nerve to say British Columbians should have their lives put at risk for, say, some religious rite or because farmers in India have a grievance. And you are correct, we can’t stop them, but government can make them pay a heavy price for placing so many of us in danger. Only a weak, ineffective government will just let them break the rules over and over again and not impose tickets, penalties, charges. And I said, the public is watching: don’t be surprised if the public don’t start ignoring the rules in increasing numbers too, because the government is giving so many others a free pass. h.o)

  18. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, let’s face it, all the enforcement or lack thereof, all across the country is being used for one reason and one reason only, to show us, the great unwashed, who has the power.
    When the mayor in Toronto sends 70 odd police, along with a horseback unit to a BBQ restaurant to shut them down, when the police ticket someone having a poker game for friends in his garage, and when the police, again in Toronto, ignore a protest on a main street by a group of First Nations, it is all for political theatre. It all depends on who is protesting, a church group will be ticketed, a BLM protest march will be welcomed with open arms and masks optional.
    Our leaders are very selective about when they enforce the edicts and when not, so the general population has no clue as to what to do, except to follow blindly or get fined or not. Confused people are really more easily lead, because the politicians make up the rules as they go along. Case in point ,”don’t wear masks, they are useless”, now “wear masks everywhere inside and maybe outside too”. The only way our leaders lead is finding their way to the trough for more taxpayers funds.
    It is such a shame, this used to be a great country. After the governments we now have, we will be lucky to have a country.

    (Response: The examples you cite are a perfect example of what concerns me ..and I’d bet most other Canadians: the lack of equality in the enforcement measures being taken. All of it made easier because a compliant and unchallenging media let them get away with it without pushing the issue! Respect for the law and for the rules ONLY comes when the population see and feel the authorities are not showing favoritism. Sure looks to me like the NDP government in BC (I’ll leave it to others across Canada to examine their own provinces) IS showing favoritism towards large groups and protestors … giving them free passes to break the Orders, while cracking down hard on families, sports enthusiasts, religious believers and businesses. h.o)

  19. 13 says:

    “dont blame the government for this” You mean dont blame the government I support.
    The sibling and yourself are living the dream. Youve been in near isolation since the spring and Im glad your situation allows for that level of safety.
    Sadly there are more Harry Lawson cases than people in your very closed bubble.
    Ive just started chemo and my biggest fear is having to delay or stop treatment due to a covid infection.
    You are very capable of blaming the BC Libs for their shortcomings. If you cant see the double standard and the hypocrisy of your precious NDP you nave a case of Ho Hum partisanship gone wild .

  20. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey
    A update for all , last night we had mission fire and 2 ambulances here for about 45 minutes they got my wife stabilized and did not transport due to covid she is safer at home.
    today i took a fall amd a seizure from exhaustion, split my head open and cracked a few ribs . didn’t go to hospital because who would look after lisa

    this is the reality of covid.

    (Response: Harry, if you’re not willing for you or Lisa to go into hospital care for fear of Covid, I urge you to get in touch with your doctor if you have one or local seniors or social service agencies in your area (United Way or a local church may be able to direct you) … even contact your local Mayor’s office or MLA to see where/what kind of help you might be able to get at home. That could make things easier for you. h.o)

  21. 13 says:

    Harry for what its worth Ive been receiving treatment at Abbotsford Hospital for a number of months. Maybe im naïve but I havent felt at risk of covid contact to this point. I did rec some home care during the early part of the pandemics out break from Fraser Health.
    What ever you choose to do or nor do you know you have many people praying for you and your wife

  22. e.a.f. says:

    Harry, there ought to be care aids who can come into your home up to 4 times a day to provide services through the Fraser Valley Health Authority. We have it on Vancouver Island. the sibling came out of hospital and has them coming 4 times a day to take care of things. I had them for 3 months when I broke my leg. Now it took some doing to get what I wanted and how I wanted it, but it was provided.

    Your doctors may be able to have the health authority provide the services because the alternative is the hospital. health authorities do not want people in hospital, so they will provide services in the home. My suggestion is, have them take you and your spouse to the hospital and then when they want to discharge you ask them where their care plan is for you and your wife and ensure you know the date it starts. My position for the sibling and myself has always been, I’m not leaving the hospital until the care plan is in place. The health authorities rate is based on your income. Now they may try to shove you off on a private care agency. We simply refuse. Its the government health authority or nothing.

    If you need assistance with getting help, check the usual political offices as mentioned above. However, most United Churches do a lot of out reach work and have parishioners who provide assistance. You can also check with your local Salvation Army to see if they have an advocate services. The services are out there, but you need an advocate frequently to get them. Phone one of the advocacy groups and tell them you’re at your wits end and need help. Speaking of Mayors, they have a budget which includes fire fighters. If they’re coming to your home regularly, they may just be willing to have some one in their office phone the Fraser health authority to ensure they provide you with assistance.

    I know there is a lack of care workers in the province. You’d think some one in the health authorities might want to recruit some more, i.e. a lot of restaurant workers are unemployed and they can all be trained either on the job or a 4 month class training session. Menno Senior’s home in Abbotsford was on the news recently. They could not hire enough care workers so they started their recruitment amongst the families of the clients.

    Personally I would not be keen on going to a care home. However, the hospitals based on what I know about Vancouver Island, are fine. The sibling has been in and out of Nanaimo Regional District Hospital and there haven’t been any problems, having to stay up to 4 days.

  23. e.a.f. says:

    #13, we aren’t living the dream. Parkinsons is a nightmare. So are kidney problems. Breaking a leg and having PTSD is not living the dream. Now we are lucky. We have pensions and the parental units left an estate which helped provide. We are lucky we had a Mother who knew the system and how to open her mouth when you needed/wanted something. Given she worked in the health system, now that we’re seniors we have an idea how to get around in it. Not all are so lucky.

    The bubble you speak of, well the sibling has had to go in and out of hospital on a continual basis through all of this COVID thing. I had care aides coming into my home, at the beginning of COVID who had to be educated on protocols. It was scary.

    Having been involved in politics for most of my adult life, I’m quite aware there isn’t that much difference between parties. its just the NDP is a tad better at some things than the Socreds/B.C. Lieberals. I may be crazy, but I’m not stupid.

    Its the bunch this province has had with the B.C. Lieberals this century that simply weren’t up to the task. Peter Lougheed over in Alberta, probably one of the best Premiers the country ever had. May not like Ford, but he has done a decent job of handling COVID. The Premier of Manitoba ditto, but his speech the other day, excellent!

    We are in uncharted territory with COVID. Most governments are doing the best they can. O.K. Kenny in Alberta not so much, but the rest of the Premiers, can’t knock them for their work/efforts. They are all trying to balance things, the health of the population with the economy. My take on it is, you can tank the economy and it can come back, but if you’re dead, nothing comes back.

    Back to ‘don’t blame the government’, yes that is correct. Premiers are doing the best they can but if people won’t listen or follow the protocols there is nothing any government can do. You can’t cure stupid.

    Governments respond to what the majority wants and for decades not many were that interested in what happened in care homes. Then we got COVID and the real dying started. I’d be interested in knowing if they put a ballot initiative together or even just took a poll how many people would be prepared to pay an additional $100 a yr to improve care homes. You might find not that many care. Not many cared that during the B.C. Lieberal reign, we had the highest rate of child poverty in Canada for 15 out of 16 years.

    Time to check the American blogs and realize that no premier in this country is as stupid as some American officials. Thankfully we live in Canada.

  24. HARRY LAWSON says:

    To all

    Thanks for your care and concern, means alot feeling alone and frustrated.

    we have made the tough decision to put lisa into assisted living. thus we will have to separate to make it affordable going to be a interesting search with all the covid protocols. fraser health does not return calls lol may hold a press conference only harvey would ask the hard questions lol the unintended consequences of covid.

    (Response: Not sure if you have yet checked out the resources I mentioned, but they could offer help in making the best arrangements for you and Lisa. All the best .. h.o)

  25. Keith says:

    Looks like Mike Farnworth has been reading your blog Harvey.

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/fines-could-go-up-for-people-who-repeatedly-break-b-c-s-pandemic-rules-1.5222264?cache=%3FclipId%3D89530

    (Response: I hope so. Police have now handed out fines of $2,300 each against 36 ORGANIZERS of various “events” held since Dec 4. Great! But we need more details about that: I hope the media finally do a little digging and hard questioning and find out exactly WHO was fined? Hopefully that includes not just religious gatherings but those who thumbed their noses at Public Health Orders and organized large spreader-event parties, rallies, protests with little or no social distancing. Equality is all we ask … not selective enforcement, ticketing some large groups but giving free passes to others!
    Meanwhile I felt wonderful … very vindicated … after I saw a Vancouver Sun story featuring front-line nurse Kim Carlson, who echoed my blog points/position: ““We are all suffering. But allowing these protests to go on without ticketing is throwing it in our face,” she said. “It feels disrespectful to people who have COVID, or those who have lost their loved ones,” Carlson was quoted. YES!!!
    “Allowing anti-mask protests to go ahead despite a public health order against public gatherings is a “slap in the face” to health-care workers on the front lines of the COVID-19 pandemic,” the nurse told The Sun. You can read the article here:
    https://vancouversun.com/news/nurse-losing-patience-with-unfair-anti-mask-demonstrations-in-b-c.
    Still amazes me that it takes a nurse (and a blogger) to actually call out the politicians, PUSH the government and demand change … while the “working” media just inquire gently, or regurgitate government “spin”. Horgan, Dix and Farnworth have to go after ALL the violators holding large gatherings, not just families, sports fans, diners or even churches … but protest/rally organizers as well!!! Otherwise, it will be the government’s fault when more and more people just start ignoring the Orders as well. h.o)

  26. Gilbert says:

    The government shouldn’t have called the early election, but I know that politicians love to call elections when their chances of winning are good. Andrew Wilkinson did so poorly that I doubt one extra year would have helped him, but that’s politics.

    The government of BC needs to be consistent and enforce our laws. It doesn’t matter who is breaking the rules because everyone is affected. Canadians are not supposed to gather in large numbers and protest.

    I know that there are farmers in India who are upset with their government, but we have to do our best to contain the coronavirus. We wouldn’t like it if PM Nodi interfered in Canada’s domestic affairs, so there’s no need for PM Trudeau to comment on the situation in India. He’s obviously just doing so because he wants the support of Canada’s Sikh population.

    I hope that the government of BC will start leading. We need to stop people from spreading the virus, rid our parks of tent cities and take action to stop large protests and parties.

    (Response: In my opinion, part of the reason the government gets away with weak/selective enforcement is the “working” media is too soft on them…. almost never “holding any feet to the fire”. Most of the “coverage” I’ve heard/seen lately have featured more excuses and “spin” explaining why it’s difficult for the government to go after the anti-masker rallies. Apparently it doesn’t occur to them fines and charges can be handed out later on to the organizers! Were they? How many? Why not? And I’m sure many of us have noticed the total lack of questioning of Horgan, Dix, Farnworth about the TWO recent huge rallies/protests … complete with speeches, no social distancing … held by HUNDREDS supporting farmers in the Punjab. Total spreader events!! I can understand why the politicians don’t want to talk about it, for fear of alienating East Indian voters, but the MEDIA should not be intimidated about ASKING QUESTIONS about whether any fines were levied against those attending or the organizers … and if not, why not??? I would have! And I’d politely inquire if our “leaders” aren’t going to respect and enforce Health Orders … why should the rest of us??? ho)

  27. 13 says:

    Harvey you must have an auto respond key.
    I blame the media for……… Yes you are totally correct. How many times have TV or radio or print media grilled poltiticans for the lack of action on the Oppenhiemer/Strathcona/Stanley Park debacles. Every now and then the media is forced to report on the results of poor decisions by governments. People being mugged and murdered in the area of tent cities. The media will show pictures of the blockades of major intersections. The media showed us the car rally (Xs2) to downtown but not a question floated by a reporter as to
    Why does the COV allow these parks to be decimated
    Why do the VPD/RCMP always look the other wayWhy do certain groups have to follow health orders and others not
    Why cant we get a handle on the fent crisis
    Why do homeless numbers keep growing
    Why has the COV been allowed to freeze the Police budget
    I dont have any idea how to fix / force the 5th estate to to its job. Laws prohibiting governments giving money to media might help. For the time being it seems that its up to people like Harvey and his readers and posters.
    Next up maybe Harvey will show opposition parties how to oppose.

    (Response: I mourn for the state of journalism in BC … especially political reporting. I’ve actually heard a “reporter”, use the word “we” … not “they” … in explaining BC government actions. Holy sh*t! I assume the “reporter” was using the word “we” in the context of how the “province” is addressing Covid, but nevertheless I believe it capsulates the problem: the media have literally become the government’s messenger … too friendly … many of them giving up or unmotivated to ask tough questions, challenge government actions, and inactions, and EXPOSE their weaknesses, failures and unfairness. Instead, it fell to a blogger and a nurse to publicly shout to the rafters about the hypocrisy of the NDP government in cracking down HARD on families, curlers, others sports enthusiasts, churches, but apparently doing little or nothing when LARGE groups of protestors hold rallies, protests involving HUNDREDS, many of them shoulder to shoulder, shouting, chanting, making speeches! It’s outrageous … and the “media” … not a nurse or blogger … should be putting the government’s feet to the fire over it. h.o)

  28. Richard Skelly says:

    Maybe Health Minister Adrian Dix was stifling a burp. But it looked like he was regarding Dr. Bonnie Henry with some irritation in a Vancouver Sun photo yesterday as she tried to explain the latest tweaking of guidelines. Such as socializing indoors with no more than a ‘core bubble’ of two outsiders if you live alone.

    Fair enough. But I can imagine this kind of exchange between an outside caregiver to the senior being visited. “Sorry I’m late. I had trouble finding parking because of the huge rally to supports farmers in the Punjab.”

    (Response: It’s not JUST the protests over the Punjab farmers: there were I understand FOUR protests/rallies in Vancouver drawing hundreds over the past week. How can the government expect a single person to limit themselves to contact with only two other people or families to stay away from everyone other than their immediate household … when the public sees/perceives HUNDREDS of others are allowed to gather in close proximity, shout, chant, sing, make speeches … with no apparent consequences??? The provincial government has to do a MUCH BETTER job of showing EQUALITY in enforcement … because THE PEOPLE are watching, even if the weak, toothless media don’t press them on that. h.o)

  29. D. M. Johnston says:

    Wednesday Morning

    Just took the wife to work and listening to “Dead dog 98”, good old Vaughn Palmer was on meekly describing the chaos with the NDP’s $1K payout to people who earn less than $175K.

    This expensive bit of political pandering is based on pre Covid, 2019 income. Ha!

    Here is the rub, several acquaintances of mine have closed shop due to Covid and have taken a massive hit. I know that two who were making well over the $175K in 2019 and have taken a massive loss to pay for leases, unsold stock, and more. They were not eligible for the CERB and now literally have no savings because the banks indicated that they will be calling loans, etc.

    I know that money saved for children’s future education is being spent so they can avoid the mob in tents in Strathcona.

    Small businesses are folding across BC and owning a shop in Vancouver for almost 25 years, I do know the huge cost of rent and more.

    As I said before, the NDP have no plan B and are pandering mainly to their base.

    Some notes:

    First, to Harry Lawson I know what you are going through as I had to put my dad and later my mom into care. Assisted living is a good option and I hope your wife thrives, as my mom did.

    We planned for a small Christmas and now it is even smaller and i hope everyone heeds this, as we are not out of the woods.

    As I mentioned before, 2021 is going to make 2020 look like a cake walk and has a special gift from the government, iIgot a pre-assessment notice which told me that the assessed value of my house has been increased by over 50%! Yet a comparable house and lot (14 houses away) sold for $960K, about $200K less than my last years assessment!

    Beware the cash handouts by the NDP, they age going to get the money back, one way or another.

    What Joy!

    (Response: They can hand out money by the billions …adding to the deficit and debt, but that will do NOTHING to reduce the spread of Covid OR compliance with Public Health Orders. What THAT requires is respect from the public and that will NOT be won if individuals, families, church and sports groups see and/or perceive that THEY are being targeted by the government, while hundreds of others are getting free passes. I’m already hearing people saying if protestors can gather in huge numbers, without ANY consequences, why should they not be allowed to get together with family and friends for Christmas and New Years? So they say they “will be careful” but still get together. The implications are very serious, but I understand the frustration. Too bad the media has not really gone after the government on this! h.o)

  30. RIsaak says:

    Harvey, excellent take on our selectively focused law enforcement dilemma.

    This past June, I lost a sibling ( long term care facility) and our family had to hold a small (50 ppl. Max) graveside service for my brother, the same weekend that PM Trudeau was participating in a BLM march back east, do as I say, not as I do??? The folks protesting Indian laws are just acting like Justin, only they are not the PM, why should they be held to account as the choices of the PM are similar? Not excusing one or the other, but hypocrisy does come to mind.

    Reading earlier comments above from Harry, I’m taken back to the many issues visited upon my deceased wife by employees of the health ministry, without a doubt an experience I wish to forget, but stories lately show how many others face similar treatment. In our experience (5+years), home care has eroded, new contractors were employed with a corresponding decrease in service and accountability.

    From our dealings (palliative care, home care, respite for full time family caregiver), none of these items were visited in a manner close to what our elected officials present them as. The upper level bureaucrats ( free parking, endless catered meetings, multiple layers of obfuscation, refusing to answer pertinent, respectful questions) who have administrative roles of oversight seem to be plentiful, but none seem to wish to answer queries from the folks they are supposed to be assisting. Answers were promised on 3 different occasions about why palliative home support was being withdrawn, the exact nature of how the changes were enacted ( bureaucratic policy change, not a passage of legislation) and in the end, the callous act of ending the service 5 days before my wife passed away ( I suppose she was not palliative enough at that phase?). Then after writing Minister Dix, some responses about health ministry complaint mechanisms from a bureaucrat. Finally after many letters, a admission that the service was withdrawn by mistake? 6 months of fighting to maintain service, endless hours spent stressing out, and then “Oh we made a mistake, sorry”, hardly suffices and doubtlessly this happens to others. Of course Mr.Dix did give raises to all health employees almost at the same time we were losing our help. I guess my take is, older, diseased & the like don’t have enough voting cycles left for the Politicians to care about. Sad reality, one we all need to be ashamed of.

    (Response: You’re absolutely right! Selective law enforcement is not acceptable …. and it’s sad that it takes a blogger and a front-line nurse to shout that publicly, while the media mostly just regurgitate government press releases and positions to us … don’t really challenge much and sound more like government or Dr Henry’s spokespersons than real reporters. h.o)

  31. DBW says:

    Fascinating topic Harvey with a lot to unravel from enforcement of rules to the rules themselves to the right to peaceful protest and the role of the media.

    First to the role of the media. Yesterday, Jason Kenney was asked point blank by a reporter if he took responsibility for the province’s poor situation with covid. Kenney’s response: “That sounds a lot more like an NDP speech than a media question.” Oh well.
    https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2020/12/08/jason-kenney-rejects-notion-hes-to-blame-for-albertas-covid-19-struggle.html

    But Kenney fairly or not has to take at least some responsibility. As the article points out, in Kenney’s case he has been reluctant to put in stricter measures because he sees some of these restrictions as violations of individual rights. And that argument, even as Alberta gets tougher, results in churches refusing to suspend services and being willing to pay the fine each week, people cheating on social gatherings and anti-mask marches like the one last Saturday in Vancouver.

    I agree that enforcement of rules is important. The vast majority will comply with the orders without the threat of punishment. We are doing it because it is the right thing to do. But it just takes a few people breaking the rules to increase the spread.

    But here is the thing. I have no sympathy with Mark Donnelley the anthem singer. Eight years ago he sang the anthem at an anti-abortion rally so he is not new to making controversial political statements. BUT, he was fired not because he wasn’t social distancing or not wearing a mask. He was fired the night before the rally after he let people know he would be participating. And I have no problem with the Canucks making that decision. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from consequences. But it does beg the question. Is the speech more dangerous than the rally.

    I haven’t seen a lot of footage of any of the rallies. I saw Donnelly on the steps of VAG well away from anybody. I don’t know how easily 500 people can fit in that space. But regardless, even if they were able to comply with everything – Outside. Social Distancing. As safe (or not safe) as walking through Safeway – how dangerous is the speech.

    We don’t allow hateful, anti-Semitic, racist comments because they may encourage someone to attack/do harm to members of minority groups. Should we allow people to make comments that may encourage others to put society at risk by, say, sneaking in a couple of relatives for Christmas dinner?

    The pandemic has shone a light on inequalities but it is also shining a light on how we as a society react to a crisis (and what crisis say the deniers) For the most part, the vast majority of us have done whatever we can to do our part. I have been wearing masks since the summer. My daughter decided in September that she wouldn’t be home for Christmas. For nine months my wife and I have had limited contacted with anybody else (basically store clerks) except each other (sympathy for my wife) but these are minor inconveniences compared to people who are suffering for medical or financial reasons.

    So I agree Harvey, law enforcement can be stricter with people who are breaking the rules. But I would also implore people who feel the need to protest to consider whether this is the right time to do so or at least figure out the safest way to make their point. Some protesters may mean well and are not attempting to cause harm even though they may be. That doesn’t excuse them but they can be educated first. As for the anti-maskers, the conspiracy driven deniers, I have no idea what to say except they are slapping all of us in the face but especially our health care workers and their patients.

    (Response: Lots to unpack here … but interesting points, all Covid related.. First, re Mark Donnelly, I agree with giving him the boot. Freedom of speech is to be cherished, but when someone has a public job, especially one with a high profile, they enjoy greater benefits than most, so must also exercise greater responsibilities than most. The only reason anyone cared that he sang O Canada was because of his affiliation/role/job with the Canucks: that I’m sure rewarded him well, but also required a certain degree of “representation” … that, yes, constrained his other liberties. I believe he failed in that regard.
    As for the rules and Orders, people will only follow them for a limited time IF they see others …in much larger groups and gatherings …getting away with ignoring it all, with little or no consequence. There’s good reason Justice is usually shown wearing a blindfold in weighing guilt or innocence … but under the NDP in BC, she clearly seems to be peeking! And more and more public will stop following the rules if that continues. h.o)

  32. Keith says:

    Re: Nurse Kim Carlson.

    At some point when covid is under control and things are looking up, the politicos will be doing photo. ops. with health care workers and rightly thanking them for all that they have done and endured.

    However, can those same politicos look these wonderful people in the eye and say, yes, we did everything possible to protect you and minimize the risks to you and our health care system. For the most part they can say yes, but with the reality they could and should have done more especially when the predicted second wave was hitting and numbers still climbing.

    They dropped the ball again with the “demonstrations” and church groups, but Christmas and new year is coming up. They should bring the hammer down when the rules aren’t being followed. MIke Farnworth in his comments mentioned increased fines for repeat offenders, but no clarity for first time offenders, which at this point should be zero tolerance. Also as far as I know nothing has been suggested for these people harassing workers asking them to wear a mask where required. Get on it Mike.

    Last night I saw a man on our local Island news in tears because he wouldn’t have his family with him the Christmas season but was O.K. with that for the greater civic good. For that gentleman, nurse Kim Carlson and the tens of thousands in the same boat, the enforcement authorities need to have no latitude. Either follow the rules until Jan. 8, or pay up.

    (Response: I believe most British Columbians ARE behind the efforts to stop the spread. BUT they demand EQUALITY: if the NDP government is going to police and fine families and sports groups and churches for serious violations, they MUST do the same for protest groups as well. If you buy Dr Henry’s scenario for how widely Covid can be spread, then surely it is obvious that a group of a hundred or more can do infinitely more damage than one family sitting down to Christmas dinner! And because the BC government has not been SEEN or ANNOUNCED that they handed out tickets/fines to the large protest/rally groups or organizers that massed in Vancouver last week, without social distancing or even fully masked, it’s THE GOVERNMENT’S fault if people are fed up enough to gather family and friends for Christmas or New Years Eve celebrations …while being much more careful than the protestors were. h.o)

  33. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey ,

    a quick update ,Fraser Health hsa finally stepped up
    was offered a assessment tomorrow had to dec;ibe due to other appointment. we have a appointments scheduled . today i spoke to at least 6 fraser health professionals all stepping up . When a few days ago could not get a call back, the power of the blog thanks all
    this might have saved lisa

    (Response: Hope all goes well…very well! h.o)

  34. helena handcart says:

    In your zeal to find fault with the current provincial government, you seem to have overlooked the fact that law enforcement is the responsibility of the various police forces in the province. Different levels of government enact laws and bylaws and direct the police to enforce them. I believe that many of the protests are in Vancouver. Perhaps your anger should be directed at the Mayor and Police Chief in that city. The budget for policing in Vancouver is over $250 MILLION!!!. I believe that all levels of government and law enforcement are walking a fine line during this pandemic. Trying to keep us safe and trying to keep life ticking along at the same time.
    I’m disappointed at how negative your blog, and your commenters have become. Most of the people that I consider to be reasonable and sober contributors have dropped off. It will be sad to see KIR go the same way as many others.
    By the way; I’m sure that all your faithful (and verbose) regulars will join me in congratulating PM Justin Trudeau and his team of professionals on getting the vaccine to Canadians within the next few days. Canada will be the third country to get the vaccine (ahead of the USA even). We should all be proud and glad.

    (Response: First, I’m not “angry” at all: quite happy today, in fact. But I am a journalist … pointing out the inequities of government action and inaction..and speaking out on behalf of the public who have no doubt noticed the anomalies …or should I say hypocrisies in the enforcements taking place under, in BC, the NDP government. And your “spin” that it’s the police responsibility, not the government’s, is a red herring: we all know (except you, apparently) that police respond to direction of their political masters .. you know, the ones who appoint them and set their budgets. I believe all British Columbians want to see is equality: not one degree of enforcement for families, sports enthusiasts and church goers ..and another for larger crowds of protestors, crowded together at Covid spreader events, opposing masking or fighting some political battle thousands of miles away in the Punjab. h.o)

  35. BMCQ says:

    I can somewhat agree that the Pfizer vaccine that will be available for approximately 125 K Canadians before year end is great and perhaps another drop that will vaccinate approx 2 million more Canadians by sometime in April is a good start but it is nowhere near something we should be proud of . The delivery and inoculation should be welcomed but it is not even close to what Canadians should be seeing by say April 2021 .

    As Canadian PM Justin might say, “Canadians do in fact deserve better” .

    Canadians had better get the vaccine sooner rather than later or it will be Canadians that may not be allowed to travel to the soon to be free UK, the EU, the USA, or other nations that have been vaccinated .

    Get back to me in September on that .

    I will repeat a very simple point, citizens of B.C. see government, police, and health authorities being Very hypocritical and playing PC Politics when enforcing or in some cases not enforcing C – 19 rules .

    It is simple, people want equal treatment, that is all they ask for, and that is what democracies have been striving hard to accomplish for centuries . But now all of a sudden ‘Woke” politicians and their minions because of some PC/SJW Mumbo Jumbo nonsense they’ve are afraid to enforce regulations or the laws we all fought for, the laws that made us all equal without exception . Instead we retreat from those principles we and our fore people kind fought so hard to achieve . Really ?

    Only a handful of years ago Canadians were all more or less equal regardless of our skin tone, ethnicity, religion, or politics, now all of a sudden some Canadians are more equal than others .

    (Response: I believe you are absolutely correct when you write; “citizens of B.C. see government, police, and health authorities being Very hypocritical and playing PC Politics when enforcing or in some cases not enforcing C – 19 rules”. THAT’s exactly the problem: most of us understand/agree with Dr Henry’s Orders or attempts to fight Covid: we just want to see the rules applied EQUALLY! Surely, it is quite obvious that crowds of hundreds gathering together … shoulder to shoulder, many not wearing masks … are a greater danger for spreading Covid than than families having lunch or dinner together. If the police can’t go in and start ticketing all those people massed together, they sure could issue tickets AFTERWARDS to the organizers, those making speeches etc. THAT’S what the public want to see and the government should tell us they’ve done … if they’re asking us not to have Christmas or New Year together with just a few friends. Mark my words … if the government continues to do little or nothing when large groups thumb their noses at the Orders and hold rallies, protest, the public will increasingly start ignoring the government and Dr Henry’s Orders … making things worse for all of us. h.o)

  36. helena handcart says:

    Right on Harvey.
    I expect we’ll see Horgan out on Scott Road tomorrow handing out jaywalking tickets, (but only to those guys in turbans).
    I look forward to you telling us how this ineffective NDP government can set the priorities of the Vancouver City Police. Poor deluded fool that I am, I always thought that was a function of the city council.
    By the way…you are not a journalist. Just a retired old geezer with an opinion, just like the rest of us.

    (Response: I sure don’t want to upset your sensitivities, but believe it or not, the NDP provincial government and the Vancouver city government led by NDPer Mayor Kennedy Stewart DO talk to each other, do co-operate with each other. It should not take much to have EQUALITY in enforcement. (Didn’t the NDP used to support EQUALITY? Not any more?) Don’t go after the churches, or families who just want to have Christmas dinner together UNLESS the governments also EQUALLY enforce the rules when they are violated by HUNDREDS of anarchists, protestors etc. placing MORE PEOPLE IN DANGER than anyone having lunch or dinner with friends or family… or having a game of hockey or curling. h.o)

  37. hawgwash says:

    Well spank me, I had to respond.
    Keep it real.

    Washington State +/- 2500 daily.
    Alberta +/- 1500 daily, restaurants, bars and casinos closed.
    BC +/- 600 daily.

    Since the BC two week restrictions were ordered, the curve has been flattening.

    Your obsession with attacking Dr. Henry, without any alternate options is disturbing, although the Greens are feeling some relief from your carpet bombing.

    What do you suggest be done with protesters, most of whom carry no ID, Granville St. idiots who would ignore fines and church goers who will clog the courts? What do you do with the 100’s of people who commute daily from “South Surrey daily? How many cops do you want to barricade the bridges in one direction?
    Huh?
    Crickets eh?
    HO for PHO?
    Go ahead do a better job. Expect to stand in line for the position though, because social media is jammed with people who could/would do better.

    Premier Horgan was criticized for his low profile by a “reporter” who would likely call him Premier Photo-op if he appeared more. Are you in that group?

    Oh how I miss the day when journos reported news instead of trying to create it.

    (Response: It is not an attack on Dr Henry to advocate EQUAL enforcement of her Public Health Orders. Notice, it’s not just me calling for that but front line workers too ..like the nurse who spoke out in the Vancouver Sun article I quoted. I don’t know what it is about the extreme left: they want the rules/laws enforced against families, sports fans, churches … but NOT against protestors or those who organize them, crowded together by the hundreds, many not wearing masks, shouting, chanting and making speeches … absolutely a greater danger for spreading Covid than small gatherings of relatives and friends just having lunch or dinner. As for your last line, I guess you haven’t yet noticed, despite years of expressing YOUR opinions on here, this is NOT a newspaper, but a BLOG, where opinions are WELCOME and have been expressed more than 29,000 times so far by contributors … yes, including the Blogger himself! Wow!! Shocking!! Opinions on a Blog!!! Seems the extreme left only want to see opinions expressed that they agree with, or support left wing boards, councils and governments … even when they trample others’ human rights! h.o)

  38. hawgwash says:

    “But I am a journalist”
    I am a “blogger” five times “with an opinion” eight times.

    “I’m not “angry” at all:”
    Congratulations, you get the Readers Digest Award for laugh of the day.

    I am not an extreme left winger; a fact I have pointed out through “years of expressing (my) opinions on here.”

    “I’m disappointed at how negative your blog, and your commenters have become. Most of the people that I consider to be reasonable and sober contributors have dropped off.”

    Say no more.

    (Response: My next blog will be very POSITIVE! Stand by! As for being a journalist AND a blogger AND a commenter … you should be impressed with my multi-tasking!! Meanwhile, I’m sure other readers notice … you criticize much and many, but seldom actually refute with FACTS. So those of us you attack no doubt just feel much more secure with our views. h.o)

  39. 13 says:

    Wow Harvey, seems this particular topic has brought the venomous left wing the NDP are infallible crowd front and center.
    Horgan called an election and put BCers at risk for his own gain
    Horgan paid BCers 1000 to look the other way
    Horgan has looked the other way while the COV has spiral down the tubes under leftw ing mayors and councils
    Horgan is no better than any other political party when it come to looking after seniors
    Horgan refuses to put pressure on any group that ignores the health orders that might cost him a vote.
    Horgan is both pro and anti pipeline (hypocrite).
    Just want to thank Harvey for seeing both sides of most stories.
    Ive been following KIR for a long time. Ive endured 1000s of anti conservative comments. Ive cringed reading many of Harveys topic slamming Gordo and Christie.
    Ive enjoyed the debate and always read the opinions I disagree with (eaf ) because they often make valid arguments that make me change my views and opinions.
    No need to shoot the messenger folks

  40. HARRY LAWSON says:

    harvey

    food for thought

    we give condoms and needles out to stop the spread of disease , yet we are having seniors and low income having to buy mask as all their other expenses goes up to stop covid

  41. DBW says:

    Why the politicizing Harvey. Why the “extreme left” comment?

    I asked a question in my last post about the power of words. Donnelly was not fired for being at a rally. He was not fired for disobeying any of the orders of Dr. Henry. He was fired the day before because he had an opinion with a more powerful voice (no pun intended) than a person such as myself. Again I am not defending Donnelly. I disagree with him vehemently. He opposes “draconian lockdown protocols” and is “standing up against … tyranny, plain and simple”.

    Forget the rally. Forget the firing. Does he have the right to say those things. Sure. But are his words helping to stop the spread? Of course not. There are people out there who will use those words (draconian and tyranny) to excuse their own bad behaviour.

    Which gets me to you. Here is your headline from last month.
    BIG SISTER BONNIE’s Total BAN on Home Visits Goes TOO Far
    Do you think Mark Donnelly and his supporters were nodding in agreement.

    And in that post and this one you are surmising without evidence the motivation behind those decisions which again feeds the deniers.

    I am not suggesting that people can’t question the government. But WORDS and TONE
    do matter.

    (Response: Yes, I have a problem with the extreme left, just as I have a problem with the extreme right. As I believe most Canadians and most British Columbians do too, judging by the way we vote. We give respect to government, but we also defend liberties and human rights. Extremists, in this instance on the left, are quite dangerous: they are so biased/partisan in favour of the NDP that they are willing to debase, set aside and even ignore what most of us in the center cherish: EQUALITY under the law. It’s a very basic issue: YES, most of us support Dr Henry’s efforts to defeat the Coronavirus; YES, most of us are willing to make sacrifices to get on top of it and save lives; and YES, most of us are willing to follow Public Health Orders, even if we don’t like them … but NO we are NOT prepared to sit back and watch the NDP government create a two-tiered system of rights: families, friends, sports groups, churches, small business at the bottom, fined and ticketed for just having lunch or Christmas dinner together or trying to save our restaurant/livelihood; while, at the top, rallying protestors, crowded together by the hundreds, many not wearing masks, listening to speeches, while the NDP government apparently looks the other way: no enforcement, no fines, no charges. That kind of selective enforcement is simply not sustainable … and the government knows it! As for Dr Bonnie’s going too far last month, I still believe that: she cast far too wide a net …. that’s why so many ignored it and maybe that even contributed to Covid’s spread. A much stricter, but concentrated shutdown in the area (South Surrey) only may actually have sent a STRONGER message to all of the consequences of holding spreader get togethers. In fact, because we did not get the severe crackdown on those creating the specific problem back then, maybe that government inaction to really target the problem area/people even encouraged those hundreds to hold rallies … with after all, little or no consequences … except for those who get Covid. h.o)

  42. BMCQ says:

    I would not ever point at myself and state the following, “I am an expert on what Blogs and Blogging should be” but I do have a personal opinion on the subject .

    IMHO Blogs like thisw are about the argument, the discussion, and the debate, sometimes feathers get ruffled, hell I have had my own feathers ruffled once or twice but I can also say that I have learned a lot from many on this very blog and I have in fact apologized a few times and admitted I have been mistaken, and I have also evolved on many issues thanks to those like LEW, Harvey, e.a.f., DBW, Hawgwash, and several more including Gene the Bean who I hardly ever agreed with but I had to mention to him that his particular post that day was one of the best I had seen on the Harvey Blog .

    To me that is what a Blog like this is all about . Am I incorrect in that ?

    If we all agreed on everything as a whole how would we benefit, how would we evolve, how would we actually learn to appreciate others point of view and circumstance ?

    Helena and Hawg have now both claimed that the Blog has become negative and people are angry, funny I see exactly the opposite, I see a friendly exchange of ideas, a comradery, and I see people with differing viewpoints on any given subject debating their own ideas and yes, some of us do change our minds thanks to that discussion .

    Harvey is a Big Boy and an incredibly good “Journalist” he is far better than most that are getting paid for their “Half efforts” in todays media so he can defend himself but I for one appreciate each and every blog topic he puts up here for us to discuss and debate, keep in mind he is not paid for his blog, he charges nothing, and in fact I can only guess the countless hours he puts in including a fair amount of expense out of his own pocket is no small amount . How in the Hell can we fault him for that ?

    Some here want to roast him for the hard work he does just because you do not agree with him ?

    Look, I strongly believe that Harvey has misjudged Donald J Trump, not because Trump can be an “A” Hole but because his policies have been woking perefectly for everything from NATO to NOKO, Iran, China, the borders, and so much more, I am convinced that if Trump would have done something with DACA and had aken steps to fix Obama care he would be POTUS today instead of a “Sock Puppet” with Kamala waiting in the wings to take over within 18 months or so .

    Harvey and I have had words about that on this blog and Harvey is wrong, he took me to task on more than one occasion and I have been pissed right off but I DO NOT hate Harvey and I do not consider him an “Angry Retired Journalist” I consider him a person with his right to a viewpoint, and I consider him a very classy and giving individual, if only I could help him with his TDS, I wonder could the C – 19 work for that ?

    Perhaps more of us should be like e.a.f. who I hardly ever agree with but every leap year e.a.f. has a moment of sanity and I agree with her . The rest of the time we have nothing in common, but we do not hate each other . Much the same for DBW, we agree on much but I do not hate him and I sort of hope he does not hate me .

    This will be my last point on this so Aghast, Hawgwash, and Helena can rest easy .

    Of course authorities/police cannot arrest everyone and put them in jail when they flaunt rules or laws, but we can create deterrent that works for almost all of the population . As Caped Crusader and Top Crime Fighter Mike Farnworth has finally decided to do we increase fines for offenders, repeat offenders, and those with grievous acts that go against society .

    Deterrence for almost all of the populations works whether it be the Granville Strip, Scott Road, the Chinese Embassy on Granville St. Main and Hastings or the Court House, if people disobey the law they should face heavy fines with an escalation in the fine for repeat offenders . For the most part that would deter many flaunting the law, for others who continue to repeat they may need to spend a day or two in jail, I am OK with that .

    Until recently and for many years my family and I lived directly next door to the South Korean Consul General on Balsam St. in Vancouver, the last thing we wanted was to
    come home 200 days a year and be confronted by 100 or so angry agitators and loons blocking our street and access to our home, that sort of behavior should not be tolerated .

    Of course those of us with any sort of a memory can rec all when after only an hour POLICE showed up at the front drive of John Horgan and his family to remove forth with a couple of Morons protesting lounging in his driveway, recall that ? Ask your self the following, Hmmmm, I wonder why that was cleared off so quickly, what no leeway, no tolerance, no right of protest ? Anyone care to answer that question ? Will Keith Baldrey or Zussman ask he Premier about that ? I bet Harvey would ! Correct ?

    We need to respect others in society and I personally believe that the B.C. NDP Gov have lost their way on this, I may be mistaken but I am now thinking that they may get the train on the track, let’s hope so .

    Helena – BTW

    Please do not get me wrong, I do have concerns .

    I do hope I have egg on my face and I dearly hope the federal Liberal can get the Vaccine out to the Great Unwashed” as you suggest I want the PM and his team to be successful but but I am worried, really worried .

    (Response: I certainly have never advocated nor would want to see police “arrest everyone and put them in jail when they flaunt rules or laws.” BUT the NDP government can stop playing favorites and ensure Public Health Orders are EQUALLY applied and enforced. If Dr Henry and Adrian Dix and Mike Farnworth and John Horgan want families to make a GREAT SACRIFICE and stay apart during Hanukkah, Christmas and New Years …or face tickets and fines … then apply the SAME rules, the SAME standards, the SAME penalties to those who gather in the hundreds, or at least their organizers for protests and rallies. Equality and fairness is all the people of BC need to see … or else, don’t be surprised if compliance starts to slip …and it will be the NDP government’s fault, even if their social media spinners don’t like me saying so. h.o.)

  43. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, equal treatment is not always equitable. i.e. here is the class room, have fun,. they all have the same things in them, but some of those children have disabilities–mental or physical. some come from violent homes, some have few language skills. They are all treated equally, but some get left behind. The name of the game, in my opinion, is equitable treatment.

    Now as to the point many are making here, about lack of enforcement on large gatherings, its the law and the law needs to be upheld. It is doubtful any other provincial government has done better or worse, o.k. Alberta not so much. However, Quebec has released its report on the treatment of citizens in care homes. Their Odbus. person has a lot to say. It isn’t a pleasant read. I’m sure when the Quebec government handed out monies for health care, they were done on an equal basis, but people in care need more, to make it equitable. Many in care can’t feed themselves,–needs more staff. People need assistance getting to bathrooms, bathing, etc. For things to be “equal”, more money needs to be allocated to care homes and workers need to be paid more. Then perhaps they’ll then be treated in an equitable manner, not in an equal manner.

    Police forces have a set number of officers. They have all sorts of work to do. If they are taken off their regular duties to hand out tickets to those who do not abide by the COVID rules, other things will need to be left undone. It becomes a case of what takes priority and what politicians want done or what senior staffers think has to be done. If police are out ticketing protestors, who are going to go out and protest regardless of tickets and they leave other duties undone, you can bet people will get upset. If you’re a criminal, best time to move drugs, make deals, steal, rob a store, when the police are ticketing protestors. Want more police? who is going to pay for that? Want better care for seniors? who is going to pay for that? As I wrote previously I’m sure if you did a poll asking taxpayers if they would be willing to pay an extra $100 a yr to improve care, you’d be surprised what the results will be because in t his province, the voters were just fine with having the highest rate of child poverty for 15 out of 16 years while the B.C. Lieberals ran the place. They were fine that Christy clawed back nickel for nickel child support from children who lived at 50% below the poverty line. (Christy needed that $14M a year she said) What makes any one think voters/taxpayers will pay more to ensure seniors and others in care homes are properly looked after. Most are just too anxious to have their hips and knees replaced.

    If people want their elderly to be looked after properly, do what you did for your children, hire a nanny in your own home. Personally I’m taking the “Trudeau exit”. No fuss, no muss. there is no quality of life, in my opinion, laying in a bed in your own bodily fluids and no help. If you want better care, start working on it now, before you need it.

    (Response: Spin! Spin! Spin! You are taking British Columbians for fools when you write: “If police are out ticketing protestors, who are going to go out and protest regardless of tickets and they leave other duties undone, you can bet people will get upset. If you’re a criminal, best time to move drugs, make deals, steal, rob a store, when the police are ticketing protestors.” Can’t the same “logic” …I use the word very loosely here … apply to police ticketing social gatherings, parties, family dinners, sporting events, church services or just trying to run a restaurant or bar etc. etc???? Think all the terrible crimes that are taking place …using YOUR “logic” while police are ticketing ordinary citizens! You should feel ridiculous for trying to pull that NDP spinning wool over the eyes of your fellow citizens. h.o)

  44. BMCQ says:

    One last thing here, above all remember and never forget these most important words .

    “Be Kind, Be Calm, and Be Safe” !!

    “We are all Soul Mates and We are all in this together” !!

  45. BMCQ says:

    e.a.f.

    Just opened up the blog and I could not resist .

    You are “Spinning” so much and so quickly I am beginning to get a case of “Severe Vertigo” !!!!! Your “Spinning has caused me to cough my vegan gluten free lunch !

    What I have is not as serious as a case of “TDS” but none the less it will take me a few hours to recover !!!

    Enforcement is nowhere near aa problematic as you are attempting to make out .

    Having said all of that I DO commend you for your thoughts in the last paragraph, I hope people take heed .

  46. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    Read the interaction with many posters,

    we have to remember justice is a perception , equality is a perception, enforcement is discretionary . COVID IS REAL

  47. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, every leap year? last year I agreed with you 3 times.

    Harvey does a great job of this blog as do a couple of others in this province. They provide us with information not available in the MSM. They give of their own time and money to enable us to express our opinions. It also provides politicians a place to come and read what others think.

    Although many of us disagree on a variety of topics, we all tend to agree on a few things, a decent society. We frequently disagree on how to get there, but we have the basis for discussion.

    Harvey’s latest response to me, in no way “insults” me. Its his opinion, its his blog. BMCQ, we don’t agree on much, but I certainly don’t hate him or dislike him. We share different views on a number of things, but he is a decent human being. From what little he has mentioned about his wife and son, I get the impression he is a decent family person and a smart business person.

    #13 and I don’t agree on a whole lot either. We don’t have to sing from the same song sheet. by having a variety of opinions we eventually will get to where we need to go as a society. If there were no differences of opinion, how would we make progress in this world.

    time to check out how some politicians are doing in Idaho and will be thankful we live in Canada.

  48. DBW says:

    This is crazy. Everybody here wants the pandemic to end. Everybody here is willing to sacrifice for the greater good. I haven’t seen any post yet that would suggest that we are not all on the same side.

    And I suppose for some of you it is great fun to second guess Dr, Henry and Dix and Horgan and law enforcement and make it into a partisan issue. But to what end?

    I will say it again. Words matter. Tone matters.

    If you don’t think that Big Sister Bonnie and her draconian orders wasn’t applauded by the radical deniers and maybe encouraged them to go out and protest then never again claim that people are reading your blog and listening. They were listening.

    And I will also repeat. Go ahead and question the government. We all should. We are not sheep. But you are making unsubstantiated statements about the motivations behind government decisions. Why?

    I am not a journalist. But if I had been writing this post, I would have ripped into the anti-maskers, the plandemic deniers. I would have questioned the need for “mean well” protests like supporting Indian farmers at this particular time. And I would have encouraged law enforcement to the best of their ability to focus on the flagrant offenders.

    But I would never use language that undermines the good work that is being done. I wouldn’t use language that feeds the narrative of the deniers.

    Words matter. Tone matters.

    (Response: They SHOULD be listening! We are people …not SHEEP! Or at least, most of us. The worst thing people in a democracy can do is stay silent and just go along when the government does something people believe is fundamentally wrong or overreaches. Just imagine what powers governments (ie politicians and their civil servants) would exercise if they could do so without opposition! However, as this blog demonstrates, you don’t have to gather by the hundreds to make a point and defend your position: press statements, virtual gatherings, press conferences by the group’s leaders … all social distancing and wearing masks, newspaper interviews, appearances on radio and tv news shows all work very well in 2020. And it need not be partisan to criticize government … I’ve criticized EVERY government … but let’s keep it real: it’s the partisans …pro or con party supporters … who make everything partisan these days… hurling insults, trying to demean those with whom they disagree. As for your suggestion that different protests should be treated differently … that would be REALLY unfair! They ALL should be condemned equally, because they ALL potentially spread Covid equally and they should all be ticketed and fined equally. h.o)

Comments are closed.