BC To Impose Collective Punishment; While Covid Scofflaws Go Free, Uncharged

Collective punishment against an entire civilian populations is considered such a heinous , unjustifiable, discriminatory action worldwide, it is banned in international treaties.

But in BC, collective punishment will become LAW this Friday, imposed by a provincial government misusing and abusing the Emergency Program Act.

Under the new restrictions, Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth will BAN any BC resident from crossing/travelling from one BC Health region into another, except for “essential” reasons.

Under the Act, it will be illegal for anyone, say, living in Vancouver (Coastal Health Region) to cross Boundary Road and enter Burnaby (Fraser Health Region) … even if they live within a few blocks of the municipal border … to shop, do restaurant take-outs or visit family and friends, under outdoor Covid-safe protocols.

And vice-versa: no one living in Burnaby, for example, will legally be able to cross into Vancouver to frequent their favorite businesses there or get together, even outside, with family and friends.

But ironically, if you live in Vancouver, you will legally be able to drive all the way to Squamish for lunch, because it’s in the same regional health region!

And the same ludicrous rules/controls will be LAW throughout the province … establishing arbitrary “Do Not Cross” lines between communities just feet apart, while allowing hundreds of kilometres travel WITHIN any artificially-established “health” region.

This is a ridiculous, ill thought out, unfair and dictatorial over-reach by politicians … made easier by BC’s mostly complacent, compliant media. … who should be screaming like hell about how the NDP government is now trampling on our citizens’ basic civil rights.

All the while as BC authorities at every level FAIL to enforce existing Public Health Orders against massive public violations/gatherings.

Where were Public Health Officials, Vancouver Police, Park Board Officers when hundreds of partying yahoos gathered in English Bay; when masses of people piled into a Surrey cavalcade of vehicles and gathered downtown to protest farm rules in India; when hundreds gather/crowd in a mass 4/20 smoke-in at Second Beach???

With few or zero tickets/charges laid or handed out at ANY of them, hitting the REAL Covid-rule violators and potential virus spreaders!

Much easier to pick on and punish those who are trying very hard and have been succeeding in following the rules?

The BC government regularly preaches to the converted: admonishing us to follow the rules; expressing exasperation at those ignoring them (and I daresay not watching Horgan or Farnworth rant on tv either).

And has imposed almost incalculable suffering and closures on Covid-careful and law-abiding restaurants, bars and religious gatherings.

But don’t have a backbone to actually go after and DO anything to the large groups who gather and openly flaunt and mock the Public Health Orders.

Yet, in true dictatorial fashion, police will be carrying out border checks, empowered to impose $750 fines for “violators”!

Premier John Horgan called it “random audits”, but let’s keep it real: these will be road blockades, manned by armed police, interfering in citizens’ basic rights just to move around from one community to a neighboring one.

For ALL law-abiding citizens, this is totally unacceptable … an abuse of power in any free and democratic state.

Does anybody really believe, there won’t be accusations and possibilities that these traffic stops/enforcements/tickets won’t be administered totally equally: regardless of colour, ethnicity, clothing (hippies, turbans or hijabs)?

And, once stopped, what’s to stop police from searching a vehicle if, in the course of the identification of the driver/passengers, they have “reason to believe” other legal violations “may” be occurring?

This is unacceptable collective punishment … a serious violation of British Columbians’ civil rights … going well beyond any reasonable, defensible health measures.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts to all new postings on this Blog by following @harveyoberfeld.ca on Twitter. No spam, just free alerts to new topics up for discussion.)

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43 Responses to BC To Impose Collective Punishment; While Covid Scofflaws Go Free, Uncharged

  1. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I recall last spring, when we were seeing other countries (especially in Europe) in severe lockdown.

    I thought to myself how lucky I was, to at least have a detached home with a yard. “If we get the same orders here, at LEAST I have the back yard and garden to escape to.”

    Giving people freedom to roam in their entire health region is still pretty generous — though, yes: it does seem ridiculous, to be living on Boundary Road and not being permitted to hop across to the convenience store for a bottle of Coke, a couple of Twinkies and a pack of ciggies.

    Boundaries and borders DO have to be drawn somewhere, however. It’s great to see the restrictions on ferry travel, as well. Islands should be easier to keep safe from COVID, and this restriction should help.

    Meanwhile, Kash Heed doesn’t think this one will be enforceable. If he’s right, this will be a mess. I know some people who already have the weekend planned and are going to take their chances with roadblocks. Not me… I can find enough to do, close to home.

    (Response: Frankly, if mobs of hundreds of people can get together to dance, party, protest or toke up without anyone receiving tickets/charges, how can a family bubble travels together in a motor home to a park or forested area to camp … be considered a serious Covid danger? Seriously! It’s government gone berserk. h.o)

  2. SG says:

    Yet Americans entering BC to drive to their summer vacation homes in Alaska will be freely allowed to drive through three or four health districts, depending on which land border crossing they use, because that’s “essential travel “. And while Americans are driving through BC, and the Yukon, they’ll be entering motels, convenience stores, gas stations, liquor stores etc. Horgan’s travel restrictions for only BC residents aren’t likely to have any effect on slowing the spread of Covid.

    (Response: Good point. And federal law supersedes provincial legislation …so there’s no way BC can stop Americans passing through …but can punish BC residents just trying to shop maybe even across the street! Crazy!!! h.o)

  3. D. M. Johnston says:

    Horgan has clearly lost the plot. His main goal was the election and after that, the entire Covid response by the NDP faded into a self congratulatory stupor.

    Now, after dithering for about 5 months, Horgan and the NDP take a sledgehammer to the people without any real evidence that crossing heath districts is the main cause of spread.

    Try this on for size, a wife of a neighbour works for the Ministry of Health and told me 2 weekend back to avoid Surrey and North Delta because the covid rules are being ignored but the civic and provincial governments was afraid to offend anyone and stays mute.


    Look at the NDP fiefdom of Vancouver, huge beach parties in the downtown and nary a cop or an official in sight! Mayor Dithers stamped his little feet but offered nothing to deal with the problem.

    But BC law punishes the weak and ignores the real guilty.

    Horgan is slowly turning from a blowhard (blame the Millennials while your government does little) to a complete and utter fool.

    I would say that charter rights will make any prosecution or fine impossible.

    What was needed was clear rules and no waffling, but no, the NDP snatch disaster from the jaws of success.

    Maybe it is time for Horgan to go, he has blown it completely.

    And the mainstream media? Well they seem to be acting like Fox News north.

    And for those who think I am some right wing twit, I am quite left in my politics, but the NDP are neither left or right, they just reward their friends, just as the Liberals do. A sort of Photo-op Lite!

    (Response: Civil rights should not be a question of left or right: we must ALWAYS guard against ALL politicians …from Horgan to Trump … who could at any time limit/restrict/bar civil rights to achieve their goals. This ridiculous attempt by Horgan/Dix to deny people the right to shop Covid-safe wherever they want to is unnecessary, arbitrary and a perfect example of Collective Punishment of entire innocent communities, without any justification. h.o.)

  4. BMCQ says:

    Honestly I do not see how much of any of this will be enforced, especially the Border to Border restrictions between Canadian Provinces, it is basically unenforceable and in fact unconstitutional whether one agrees or not .

    Lets also keep in mind that the ‘Canadian Great Unwashed” are MORE THAN well aware that even Murders seem to get away with their crimes in Canada, out of say about 100 murders in YVR only eight are solved, think about that . Those arrested for many other crimes rarely see any kind of worth while penalty and each and every day 24/7 those that commit most other crimes including assaults, open drug use, and the rest rarely see court time let alone a conviction, Canadians are more than well aware that there are rarely any consequences to anything they do unlawful so why would they be concerned about obeying any law . Let’s face it Mike Farnworth is not coming for YOU unless YOU sprinkle YOUR lawn on the wrong day in august .

    How pathetic !

    I simply do not see Premier Horgan, Dix, Farnworth, the VPD who couldn’t find girls at Hugh Heffner’s House do anything about Covididiots and the Covidiots know very well there is not much that officials are willing to do .

    (Edited…off topic)

    Canadian PM Justin, Horgan, Dix, or VPD Chief Barney Fife, and Vancouver Mayor
    Kennedy who could not run a Dog Show with three contestants are not going to come for those that contravene regulations any time soon so why should anyone pay attention to Covid Restrictions ?

    As to Borders between the U.S. ? Those of you with Canadian Superiority Complex should keep in mind that it is the U.S. and other nations who have been successful may very well be restricting Canadians from entering their nations because as far as they are concerned Canada has FAILED in their efforts to get Jabs in Arms !!!

    (Edited…off topic)

    Do not expect much more than you saw from the VPD last weekend who claimed they were too busy and had other priorities, they were/are too busy for Covidiots .

    No folks, Caped Crusader, Mike Farnworth and or VPD Chief or Mayor Mumbles Stewart of Vancouver is not coming for you any time soon, just carry on and do not worry about a thing .

    I had to laugh out loud when Mayor Kennedy stated that he was going to have a conversation with the VPD Chief, isn’t that about all they ever do ?

  5. BMCQ says:

    And all of this trouble simply because we have Canadian PM who could not for some crazy reason manage to acquire/procure Vaccines for a country which is supposed to be one of the best on earth .

    What does that say about the PM ?
    How many have died because of the inability of the canadian PM to acquire/procure Vaccines ?

    Who will answer for this Fiasco ?

    Wait a minute I know who will answer for the ineptitude and failure of the Canadian PM and his Minions, it will be innocent hard working Canadians who succumb to Covid and those that have life long debilitating handicaps because of Covid and the future generations who will be required to live with those consequences .

    How sickening !

  6. e.a.f. says:

    I don’t see it as punishment. We aren’t going to agree on this one.

    Living on Vancouver island, and over looking the Inland Highway I see all the R.V.s coming up the highway of life. They’re bringing whatever they have with them and that includes COVID. We have the lowest rate of things when it comes to that, I’d like to keep it that way.

    The plan is not without its problems but right now its the best thing they have. We aren’t running the province. Horgan is with Dix and Dr. Henry. I’m good with what they’re doing. They have decided only essential travel is a go. works for me.

    In my opinion they are trying to stop the uptick in COVID with the May long weekend coming up. Over here on Vancouver Island, the camp grounds have been full all winter either from people who normally go south or those who can no longer afford to live in what they were living in. Where do you think these tourists from the mainland are going to go? You bet, onto the back roads, the logging roads, etc. where there are no facilities. Then they start dumping sewage out of their R.V. tanks and that is a lot of poop. Guess what’s in poop? COVID. At some seniors’ residences, they test for COVID by taking samples of the sewage. It shows up there before the patients even know they have COVID. I don’t know how much exploring some of you have done in this province, but back in the 1990s I went up logging roads, etc. which hadn’t been used in decades. then had to back down them. OMG. My point is, people will go up these roads and this will spread.

    The whole mess with COVID if people had stayed at home to begin with, we might not be in the prickle we are today. Going to your favorite resturant is not a necessity. I haven’t been to a resturnat, take out place, shopping for anything but groceries since March of last year. O.K. I went to the local liquor store in August. No shoe shopping, no clothes or furniture or decor shopping, etc. Did merchants miss me, I’m sure they did but bankruptcy is something you can recover from, death you can’t.

    If this gets worse we will run out of ICU beds and even regular hospital beds. We will have to go with the Italian model. Its real fun to talk about our freedoms. I’d like the freedom to live and if that restricts your freedom to go outside your health district so be it. I won’t recover from dying. You’ll get over not going to another health authority. Nothing in this edict says you can’t move for essential reasons.

    Don’t be too upset about the police blockades, last year when COVID got up and running the citizens of Tofino put up a blockade to keep people out of their town and that is one town which really needs tourists.

    As to people travelling to Alaska, there aren’t that many. try having thousands of Albertans decent on the Interior. You go to Invermere, there are times you’d think you were in Alberta. they’re all at Christina Lake, Shuswap Lake, ditto. Albertans every where. If they get sick here, not only will they spread COVID, they might wind up in hospital and as the chart yesterday demonstrated, we’re running out of beds.

    For those of you opposed to Horgan’s new “rules”, come and talk to me when you have COVID or some one you love dies from it. See what you have to say then.

    I’ve put off going to see my medical professionals but now that I have shot one, I’m going at the end of the month to Richmond, where I will sit on a farm with no one else, and go to my appointments as necessary. That is essential travel. I will not be going shopping, no matter how good the sales are on those shoes I want.

    Harvey you ask where was Horgan during a list of events. Well one could say he has learned his lesson and with the May long weekend coming up,. one of the busiest travel weekends of the year, he is correcting his past mistakes and I’m really happy about it.

    Some readers may not understand how small some hospitals are in this province. Where do you think patients are going to go if the get COVID? where are people going to go if they have heart attacks if the hospital beds are full of covid patients or people having a parkinson crisis or having a difficult birth and need a “section”. In Ontario they are using the children’s hospital for adults. Too much travelling in B.C., we could be taking the kids out of Childrens and putting adults in.

    On Vancouver Island the hospital for covid patients from Duncan to the north of the Island is the Nanaimo hospital and from Duncan south its one of the Victoria hospitals. We suddenly get an extra hundred covid patients needing beds, we’re fxxked. Same around Kamloops. In many parts of the province the hospital is not around the corner or a few miles down the road. Try living up around Prince George. some people have to travel two hrs. by car to get there. So now if you let travellers all over up there, can you imagine when people start to feel a little sick they may not want to travel that distance and stay home, go undiagnosed until its too late.

    Not only do we have people travelling but there are those who use their ATVs, cross country motorcycles, hiking, etc. to go into the back country and no toilets. they use the nearest tree. We know dogs can get covid. My question is, can wolves, can bears? We don’t know for sure. If they eat human poop, we may have a problem. Yes some animals do it.

    Horgan’s decree sounds to me more like an exercise to keep people not only in their own areas but out of the back country and several thousand Albertans out of our province.

    Just remember COVID can kill and it can cause you to become a “long hauler” and have not much of a life after that. the first toddler has died of covid. Do you want that for your children and grandchildren? Some may wonder why my knickers are in a knot. I remember polio and I remember AIDS. Diseases can kill. I remember asking an associate why they looked so “down”. They said, they’d been to a hundred funerals so far that year and it was only the fall of that year. Diseases kill and can cripple you for life. Stop whinning, put your patio furniture out, and relax.

    O.K. I need a coffee and I’m sure some of you are tired of reading this.

    (Response: There’s a BIG difference between saying this is not the time to travel to/from Vancouver Island and the Mainland, or Kelowna to Prince George or Whistler … and ordering police checks to fine people who want to shop a few blocks from their homes, just because it is another geographic health region. That’s just silly, power gone to a politicians head and definitely whole community punishment, while governments do little or nothing about the huge groups of scofflaws who openly and loudly give health rules the finger. When people give up their rights ass easily as you are willing to, in no time we’d find we don’t have many of our rights anymore! h.o)

  7. 13 says:

    Its likely been mentioned but the “NEW RULES” will have the same level of enfocement as the old rules. ZIPPO ZERO> For f— sakes convicted murderer’s and rapists’ are allowed to walk away from their half way houses. The cops have already said in Ontario NO to being the covid police. Trudeau and Horgan and Farnsworth are wind bags full of hot air.
    DEAR PM we need vaccines. Not another Obama line in the sand.

    (Response: They’ve already started to back down: After a very negative reaction on this blog, other social media and civil liberties groups, Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth has an hour ago backed away from Premier John Horgan’s Monday announcement. He said the new rules on Friday will allow for spot checks on highways and at ferry terminals etc. but there will NOT be police stops/checks at borders between municipalities: https://www.citynews1130.com/2021/04/20/periodic-roadblocks-but-no-individual-stops-planned-for-b-c-s-covid-19-travel-rules/. h.o)

  8. Les says:

    To Hell with the Charter Of Rights and Freedoms, eh? Any of you here who are ok with this and actually most everything our governments, B.C. and the rest have done and are doing are purely deranged sheep!

    We all might as well each just print out our Charter and have an arranged day and time mass collective burning of it and make silly tik toc videos of it all, so especially the the CCP and other Marxist dictator types can laugh at us.

    I seethe and the endless fear and paranoia you all look to display here. I grew up during the damned Cold War where our side THE GOOD GUYS in the western alliance stood up to the BAD GUYS the Soviet led Communist Bloc. 25,000+ nuclear warheads vs 25,000+ nuclear warheads and us at least showing that the WEST WAS BEST! To now see how many of my fellow citizens would be just frigging fine living in a new Marxist dictatorship!

    You are all being played over SARS-cov-2, you are being duped and lied too. Screw the cases bull crap! The Case Fatality Rate is not rising and is inline with the typical seasonal flu. Hospitalization rates are not spiking inline with the long debunked
    (even Dr. Fauci has said so) PCR tests for cases. It’s called triage to manage care, if our hospital management cannot or are too incompetent do this then they need to be replaced by others who can.

    But I sit here and I see citizens who are A’OK with a never ending trampling on our Charter Of Rights And Freedoms… Be careful of what you all ask for, you may very well get it. 🙁

  9. NVG says:

    H.O. ” ordering police checks to fine people who want to shop a few blocks from their homes, just because it is another geographic health region. …”.

    There can’t be that many who live a few (3) blocks either side of Boundary Road who would risk leaving their pristine Fraser-Burnaby bubble zone to venture into their non-cohort neighouring Covid-19 territory of Vancouver when its more convenient to shop locally on their side of the line.

    (Response: You are wrong. Drop by Brentwood Mall or Metrotown some day or drive along Hastings or Kingsway: you’ll see thousands of stores/restaurants/service businesses that depend on customers from the Vancouver side of the line. Too bad the armchair socialists in Victoria apparently haven’t got a clue of how real business works or how many thousands of jobs Horgan’s dictate will destroy if it’s imposed the way he laid it out … if people go along with it. h.o)

  10. nonconfidencevote says:

    We will be in total lockdown, with police roadblocks……as the international flights continue to arrive.
    Our politicians and bureaucrats have finally reached their levels of incompetence and it’s obvious to everyone what the embracing of these politically correct talking heads hath wrought.
    Paralyzed from the top down.
    God help us if China stops blustering and actually decides to go to war.

  11. Keith says:

    More or less a year ago, Trudeau was not too happy with the beach goers in Vancouver that had taken no notice of the then advisories not to congregate, so blatant it was televised nationally.
    A year later Kennedy Stuart is lamenting that nothing could be done in enforcing the regs. or tickets was not possible because the police were elsewhere, after this weekends extravaganza of who gives a toss, were having so much fun.

    The feds. are just considering shutting down flights entering into Canada could stop the influx of a virus from the country where the flight originated, this time the one from India. Meanwhile they are watching what Britain is doing.

    On the latest hot air and high hopes announcement from the province I’m in favour of shutting down travel for recreational purposes, but as many of us have expressed in the year on your blog Harvey, there isn’t much point in having rules if they aren’t enforced, which has fostered a culture where anything goes, and your luck has to be right out if you get nabbed for flouting the rules.

    The Prov. govt. had the political capital and a new majority to clamp down and keep the spread under control. A year later they look like an octopus flailing away at the end of a bungee cord trying to get the toothpaste back into the tube. The Liberal opposition, sit back and enjoy the show.

    Farnsworth will be out on Friday with a serious face on huffing and puffing about enforcement as he has done a few times now, lets focus on what they do, not what they say, again, federally and provincially.

    (Response: Isn’t it strange how the NDP provincial government, the NDP Mayor, the extreme left Parks Board are totally impotent when it comes to acting to stop the Covid-ignoring partiers, protestors and anarchists from wreaking havoc throughout the city …but they’re really powerful at throwing thousands out of work by shutting down restaurants, bars, gyms, churches, and now punishing families and entire communities who have been trying very hard to follow all the Health rules … as confusing and contradicting as they are. h.o)

  12. SG says:

    Yet Americans entering BC to drive to their summer vacation homes in Alaska will be freely allowed to drive through three or four health districts, depending on which land border crossing they use, because that’s “essential travel “. And while Americans are driving through BC, and the Yukon, they’ll be entering motels, convenience stores, gas stations, liquor stores etc. Horgan’s travel restrictions for only BC residents aren’t likely to have any effect on slowing the spread of Covid.

    (Response: At some point, Horgan, Dix/Farnworth and Henry will realize their pious pleas on TV to follow the rules, “be safe, be calm” etc. are playing to a mostly, older tame audience: the partiers, activists, anarchists don’t watch the evening newscasts or listen to talk radio. The only thing they will understand is ACTION: break up their thumb-their-noses gatherings, hand out tickets, arrest the organizers … instead of stopping, ticketing couples of families who just want to go shopping or do takeout from the municipality next door. h.o)

  13. Marge says:

    COVID-sick people continue to arrive in Vancouver from India – where mutations are out of control.
    According to latest data from the B.C. Centre for Disease Control, 10 flights arrived in Vancouver from Delhi between April 6 and April 16 with sick people on board – and in some cases with several sick people on board.

    The above is courtesy of the Vancouver Sun. A friend of mine has a husband who’s an Emergency doctor in one of the largest hospitals in the Lower Mainland. She told me that tons of families sick with COVID are coming through the International Airport with fake certificates of health because they want the benefit of BCs health care. Unfortunately, if we say anything about this situation, we will be accused of being racist.

    Instead of stopping this from happening, what does our crazy government do? Ordinary law abiding citizens aren’t supposed to leave their health zones. We aren’t supposed to cross from one Health Zone to another. Why didn’t they give a damn about what was coming into the country? Political votes of course. Trudeau and now Horgan are complete idiots and have let us suffer as a result of their and their staff’s total incompetence. This mess is on their hands and I wish the public would get a brain collectively and turf them all out.

    (Response: Our politicians seem to have too much fear of offending India or China. I get it: those communities here have a great deal of power …and votes … in Canada now. Nothing wrong with that …BUT not even they should want to place our country’s health and our lives in danger by being too afraid to close the door to travelers from those countries/areas based solely on Covid numbers. And with 200,000 NEW Covid cases daily now ..surely travelers from India should be temporarily barred!! h.o)

  14. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, I must say, I agree wholeheartedly with Les. I cannot believe what I read here and some of the comments on other blogs, how easily people are willing to give up their rights in the name of safety. In the words of Ben Franklin “Those who would give up their liberty for safety, do not deserve, and soon will not have, either.” (fairly rough quote, but you get the idea)
    I don’t see any Canadian leaders doing anything positive for the country or the people, the airports are still operating with flights from India and China, and no forced isolation, but we get told it’s our fault, so no travelling or be fined.
    All of these lockdowns and other restrictions haven’t done a whole lot except bring the country to its knees and I think this is where some of them want us to be too. Doesn’t it seem kind of amusing, not in a funny way, that all of the proponents of lockdowns are people who have not been impacted in any way, by the lockdowns. They haven’t missed a paycheque, had their business crippled or destroyed, lost their jobs or seen their hours drastically cut.
    The government’s first job, is to protect its citizens and its borders, our governments have done neither. Trudeau wanted to kowtow to China and in so doing botched the vaccine acquisition. Next he told us it was racist to close the borders, thereby bringing in more and more people infected with the Chinese flu.Horgan was no better, not pressing the federal government to close the airports as it might anger some constituents in Richmond and Surrey, and I am sure, some other localities. Some cynics might say, because he wanted an election in the worst way.
    I am guessing most of the readers of Harvey’s blog, like me, are older and a little worn out, but I am hoping some young, dynamic leader might come along and rouse the young folks to not be so docile and willing to follow what our mostly useless leaders have to offer. To get them to see past the propaganda, and to think for themselves. Don’t be fooled by these self-serving parasites.

    (Response: In difficult times, governments of all stripes will try to take shortcuts with processes, procedures, and “temporarily” push aside protections of our liberties “for the public good”. Sometimes that can be justified …when national security is in danger, but not in this case: a clear over-reach by Horgan/NDP who have not done anywhere near enough to go after the REAL problems: people who flagrantly ignore health orders to hold large parties, gather in large Covid-spreading protests, participate in totally unnecessary events like 420 smoke-ins etc. Farnworth has already signaled they will back down when the official rules are announced Friday. h.o)

  15. K.R. says:

    What’s horrible is that it has become a dictatorship. Punish those at fault, not everyone. Government won’t do what’s needed, like have vaccines made in Canada and at least bring more of the ones that don’t have major risks. Also, get more doctors and treatment medications. People will still get very sick and vaccines won’t save everyone.

    (Responswe: I’m sure Trudeau/government is trying very hard to get EVEN MORE Pfizer and push for more Moderna: after all, there’s an election coming!! But BOTH the feds and provinces have to go after the REAL culprits … those continuing to gather in large numbers to party … not target/punish people or families who are doing their best to stay safe. h.o.)

  16. Stu de Baker says:

    I’m with G. Barry Stewart and e.a.f. on this one for two simple reasons; nothing coming down on Friday will personally change my life, as it has been for the past year and much of what has been put forth here is just fish of the red herring variety.

    Like G.B.S. though sadly, I have not seen my grandkids for 16 months, it could be a lot worse. I live alone, am ok with my own company and have not, in a year, been without something productive to do in my own health region.

    Like e.a.f. I live on the island and have also witnessed the surge of people from the mainland and indeed across Canada, arriving here. Just this past weekend it was a Class A motorhome towing a small Jeep and loaded to the rafters with paddle boards, kayaks, bikes and who knows what else; from Quebec.

    Marshal Law has not been declared here. People are not being punished. This is just another anti NDP rant and fist pumping with the three usual KIR yes men.

    BC Ferries will be denying reservations to “RVs and trailers.” That is not punishment, it just eliminates a convenience and might be a deterrent. Good news to me.

    The RCMP will not be forcing Albertans back at the border or fining them. Signs have already been placed art AB-BC crossings and it will go no further; a red fish.

    People will not be estopped from or fined for venturing a few blocks into an adjoining health region; another red one.

    Sure it seem silly that I can cruise 800 miles circumventing the island. Or double that distance up into Knight, Seymour, Kingcome, Bute and Toba inlets, even enjoying an outside meal at one of the mom and pop marina resorts, but cannot go 30 miles across Georgia Strait, to White Rock for an ice cream. It is what it is.

    One thing I do take issue with though, is the US travelers and not just by land. Dozens of US recreational boaters, bound for Alaska, have crossed the border in April and it will now escalate as it always has, come May. They too, cross multiple health regions and few can do it without stopping in at least three locations to clear customs and refuel/provision.

    BC has no jurisdiction to stop these travelers, but they could initiate the same request of facilities to not accept out of area travelers; no motel or fuel service on the road, no port services on the water.

    I have a greater issue with your “scofflaws” than with the Government restrictions. An example; I know of a family who spends the entire summer in a campground outside their own area. Since Monday they have cancelled their 4 month stay and rebooked in the name of the father-in-law, who lives in the region.

    There will be plenty of that, but I can do nothing about it, no ulcers here.

    So, here’s to you G. Barry and e.a.f. Be safe in your yards.

    Lastly, Harvey, BMCQ, K.R. et al, just how do you deal with “hundreds of partying yahoos gathered in English Bay; when masses of people piled into a Surrey cavalcade of vehicles and gathered downtown to protest farm rules in India; when hundreds gather/crowd in a mass 4/20 smoke-in at Second Beach???”

    (Response: First, to your last point, with beach partiers, the pen is mightier than the sword. You deal with them by sending in right at the beginning, a dozen bylaw officers and police, with ticket books. You can’t ticket/charge ALL of them ($700 apiece) …but watch how fast the event/crowd disperses … minimizing the Covid danger … when officials pull out their ticket books; then you arrest/charge the organizers, the musicians with $2,300 tickets and perhaps even seize their expensive audio equipment as evidence. But the worst thing to do is NOTHING …just let the party grow and grow, as the virus spreads and spreads! Some leadership! As for your “rewrite history” and “blame the messenger” NDP propaganda attempt: read Horgan’s own words Monday about how the government would issue ORDERS under the Emergency Protection Act to BAN people from crossing from one Health Authority into another … use POLICE checkpoints to ENFORCE it and FINE those who violate NDP Big Brother’s ORDERS: https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/amp/travel/bc-to-start-doing-roadside-checks-to-ensure-people-are-staying-in-their-communities-3646350. Read it and weep for how quickly our freedoms can be be taken away! h.o)

  17. 13 says:

    @ Art Smith. Great comment and I love the line ” THE GOVERNMENTS FIRST JOB IS TO PROTECT ITS CITIZENS AND IT BOARDERS”
    PM Trudeau has FAILED on both counts. PM Trudeau hasnt been as lucky as Premier Horgan. Horgan got his election and failed to protect his citizens for 5 or 6 weeks while the province concentrated on campaign signs. Likely only costing some lives in old age homes.
    Trudeau will not be as lucky. Because of his inability to protect citizens by completely botching the vaccine file and his inability to act on incoming flights carrying the highly contagious variants he is costing more Canadians their lives and or long term health.
    Trudeau wants an election. He couldnt care less about citizens or boarders. I hope he gets what he deserves. A return to his pre government job as a drama teacher

  18. D. M. Johnston says:

    @ nonconfidencevote: Quote: “Our politicians and bureaucrats have finally reached their levels of incompetence…………..”

    Sorry we reached that plateau about 20 back.

    Hindsight is 20/20 of course but both the provincial and federal ,government were about 3 weeks late getting out of the gate with Covid and the hell it has wrought will last generations.

    What should have been done wasn’t done until all decisions were based on both politcal philosophy and panic.

    Well that didn’t work either.

    Daily homilies by the P.M. grew tiresome as were the daily show by Dr. Henry and Dix. Wasn’t that serious because they were taking weekends off, but Covid didn’t. We were bubbled, locked down and isolated, yet government was still allowing international flights and cross boarder traffic.

    There should have been mandatory health checks at all entries into BC, even quarantine.

    During the summer there was a lull and politicians took full advantage, with a few calling fall elections, then hubris set in as many people thought that the plague was winding down and this was shared by many political types.

    But Covid did not and with mutations a plenty, came back with a vengeance catching the Canadian politcal apparatus completely off guard.

    In BC this Covid ennui continued and then all hell broke loose and Covid came back and came back taking no prisoners.

    Horgan and the NDP; the city of Vancouver’s Mayor Dithers and his cohort of politically correct minions have completely lost the plot. My god the CoV was debating having the 2030 Winter Olympics during a massive resurgence of Covid.

    The people, being peppered by ill conceived diktats; extremely bad communications and the sheer hypocrisy of the Trudeau and Horgan Governments, who are afraid to tackle real issues because of their fear of offending the Indian and Chinese communities and loosing politcal support, have all but given up.

    Let’s party folks because we have idiots in charge…………..

    All this is good news for Covid as government incompetence, built on years of incompetence, ignored by the mainstream media, has surpassed itself in both Canada and in BC, especially in BC.

    As I said back in 2020; “2021 will make 2020 look like a cake walk”, well 2022 is going to to be the “die Rechnung”, as we will start having to pay the piper’s price and the piper in this instance is totally incompetent politicians and their equally incompetent bureaucrats.

    And Covid, it will be still with us, waiting patiently, until vaccination ennui lets our guard down and it will be back, bolder and more deadlier.

    (Response: I agree with your statement “Daily homilies by the P.M. grew tiresome as were the daily show by Dr. Henry and Dix.” I was thinking the other day how pompous … to the point of arrogant … Dix sounds when he repeats over and over his solemn admonitions to the public that we have to work harder to follow the rules to stop the spread of Covid …yada, yada, yada. He sounds like he believes he’s talking to children. Let’s keep it real: no one who listens to those scripted “briefings” are the ones planning to attend the beach parties, farmers’ or anarchists’ protests/gatherings …so he can can the crap! What the public NEEDS to see is ACTION by the government(s) against the worst scofflaws … not harassment of ordinary taxpayers who just want to get together safely with family or friends for lunch or shopping … moving safely from one municipality into another. h.o)

  19. BMCQ says:

    So now we have had several so called events including 4/20, the Drum Beating Ceremony, Kits Beach, English Bay, Protests of any variety, street closure protest which stop Hard Working Tax Paying Covid Obedient workers from navigating streets and bridges which causes them to be late for work and in turn impedes their ability to get home to their families and the Police and Governments are all of a sudden much like the three Monkeys, none of them can see, hear, or speak out on those various law defying morons who care about nothing other than their own “Special Interests’ !

    Let’s keep in mind that Mayors like the inept imbecilic moronic Kennedy Stewart, the Province of B.C. including cape crusader Farnworth and Premier Horgan all of a sudden seem to be hiding under their desk not wanting to do anything that might affect a vote from any of those given Special Interest Protest Groups !

    Farnworth huffs and puffs but no one pays attention, I wonder if they realize how stupid they look .

    I wonder how any of them would react if all of a sudden intersections like Georgias and How, the Lions Gate Bridge, English Bay Beaches, Kits, Beach, Main and Hastings, Bridges, Train Tracks and the rest were all of a sudden taken over for “Social Distanced” Mask Wearing Religious Ceremonies ?

    How long would Religious Interests be tolerated anywhere ?

    No wonder the “Great Unwashed” are losing respect for Elected Governments at all levelsw !!!

    I can only hope and pray that Voters somehow remember all of this when it comes to Federal, Provincial, and Civic elections sometime fairly soon .

    How is it that Canadians somehow manage to continually elect politicians that are so mediocre and not capable of doing any good for the people that pay the bills, the Tax Payers ?

    Why is it that Politicians always cater to Special Interests like PC SJW Poverty Pimps and the rest ?

    (Response: You are absolutely correct! There are now TWO sets of laws under the provincial NDP and the extreme-left regime running Vancouver City Hall: thousands upon thousands of innocent citizens are forced out of work and millions suffer as anyone who owns, works are just wants to dine in a restaurant or bar or visit a gym or church faces the costly wrath of Big Brother for violating Public Health Orders; but organize huge massive Covid-spreader events celebrating marijuana or farmers issues in India or just plain anarchy etc. and somehow those “in charge” see no evil, hear no evil …and do nothing to stop you, break it up, issue tickets or seize your audio equipment and “evidence” for charges laid. Is it no wonder why so many decent, law abiding Covid-fighting public are becoming fed up with Horgan/Dix/Farnworth seemingly meaningless rhetoric … backed up by NOTHING to make the worst offenders endangering public safety to comply! h.o)

  20. e.a.f. says:

    there has been much mention of the police failure to deal with large protests, gatherings, etc. the VPD has 1400 officers. How do you expect them to deal with that? do you want people injured, dead, etc. do you want police officers to wade into the crowds, tell them to disperse and then have them refuse. What do the cops do then? Arrest them and put them in paddy wagons or buses. Do any of you have any idea of how that could turn out. Many of you are too young the last time that was tried by a Mayor I remembered called Tom “Terrific” Campbell”, no relation that I know of to the former Premier.

    The “fun” started with Tom terrific deciding he didn’t like the editor, Dan McLeod, of the Georgia straight and what he stood for. Yes, McLeod was beaten more than once by the VPD. Tom Terrific wasn’t keen on me and my age group. We were hippies, bums, etc. and we gathered. For those of you who don’t know, look up the Gastown Riots. they were actually riots by the cops. They didn’t want people in Gastown in crowds. When they didn’t disperse, they charged them on horses. It worked, they dispersed and they arrested some, but there were also injured. the report which was written after wards advised this wasn’t a crowd riot but a “police riot” and that is most likely why we don’t have police in this province trying to disperse large groups of people. They just need to read that report. Then they need to look at the number of officers on staff vs. the number of those gathering and how they will react if told to disperse. Sometimes sitting back and waiting for it to be over is less expensive, less violent, less harmful that charging in on horseback or whatever they use these days, like bikes. We don’t need these American style confrontations in Canada. You have to learn to pick and choose your battles and some just aren’t worth it, like the protests regarding farm land in India.

    I would agree we ought to stop flights from abroad such as India and China. China, well its another way to send them a message because they do have our two Michaels and India. OMG, of course they have false paper work. Its easy to get. I remember when I worked for the feds there was a story amongst the immigration officers which they loved to tell. A high ranking Immigration official went to India because Canadian staff there weren’t agreeing with him on types of paper work. One of the immigration officers told the Deputy Minister, watch this: See our gardener there. In 30 minutes he is going to come back with an official document which states you are his father. D.M. scoffed. Half an hr. later the gardener came back with the document. The staff knew it could be done easily. The D.M. was pissed. the staff never knew if it was because the gardener was so much older than him or that they were of two different ethnic back grounds. Not much has changed in India.

    Now as to China, there is a city, where they make a very good living creating “duplicates” of anything and everything and only an expert can tell the differance if then. Now are you going to trust that? Me not so much. I’ve seen the documentary where international cops are trying to deal with the “knock offs” on clothing, purses, art, antiques etc. You think they haven’t figured out how to make knock off vaccine documents?

    Having written all that, the number of people coming in on jets from other countries is nothing compared to several tens of thousands of vacationers hitting the highways to get out of town.

    (Response: How sad and defeatest! Just let crowds run amok? Let anarchists do whatever they want? To hell with laws or bylaws or even Health Orders trying to protect lives … because if police did try to enforce them, people could get violent? What kind of a lawless society are you advocating? Where laws are applied to only the timid, weak, handicapped and/or elderly? I have more faith in most people: we are NOT a society where rioting is the default reaction to police breaking up illegal gatherings/activities. Most would just disperse … get out of there as soon as the ticket books came out: most others would stop and identify themselves if ordered to and the police should/could/would be able to handle those louts who would act like animals. Especially if we had provincial and municipal officials calling on them to do so!! h.o)

  21. 13 says:

    @BMCQ I hope the Archdioses of Vancouver reads your message . I also hope that every restaurant that has been put out of business reads your comment.
    Pick a protest . Site C, old growth forest, homelessness, safe injection sites, safe alcohol consumption park. Blockade the entire street in front of your church or your restaurant and preach and serve meals. If the police tell you have to move tell them to back off or you will play the 4/20 card. If they still insist you move call anyone of the groups that are allowed to close bridges or intersections and ask for help. Offer them a sermon or a plant based meal.

  22. nonconfidencevote says:

    At the next impromtu beach party in Kits…. the Police Helicopter should do what a Burnaby police helicopter did at barnet marine Park about 30 years ago when a bunch of kids decided to have a midnite bonfire party.

    Zoomed in at low level with the spotlight on and hovered back and forth for about 10 minutes, chairs, paper, clothes…all airborne….., sandblasting everyone….. party was done ….. cops had a roadblock set up and nailed a few for impaired.

    (Response: If that happened today, the police would be sued for psychologically “oppressing” and causing subsequent “anxiety” to these poor youngsters … and the NDP provincial government, City Hall and even the Vancouver Parks Board (even if it was not included in the lawsuit) would EACH settle out of court with the lawbreakers for $5 million each. h.o)

  23. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey your reply to Nonconfidencevote is silly. There won’t be law suites. Low flying helicopters aren’t that unusual and its permitted. As to the $5M settlement, the Supreme Court of Canada has a limit on “pain and suffering”. Has had since back in the day. Any government lawyer could get that type of case tossed out. what the cops did was totally legal. There was a big fire, with a crowd, the fasted and safest way to check it out would be from the air. So if a few things got tossed around, such is life. Its not against the law for the police to do it.

    As to the response to me, I’m not sad or defeatist. I’m a realist. Every one picks and chooses their battles and trying to break up some of these events is crazy, if there isn’t violence. Costs too much, etc. I’m not advocating a lawless society but really we might want to have the police spend a bit more time dealing with murders, money laundering, shootings, etc. A protest of vehicles going into downtown, was done twice or three times, it was over. there were a limited number of ]people involved. May long weekend tens of thousands involved. Don’t know where some of you live or if you go out and about, but the highways are clogged. Should have seen it at Easter. One of the T.V. stations showed a solid line of vehicles heading to Hope and beyond. With them goes the COVID. If they put some orders in place, a good idea. If they set up a road block and check people and then send them home, fine.

    Most would disperse, right, don’t you remember the B.C. hockey riots, the Toronto riots, well that was more of a police force gone crazy, but just the same, citizens weren’t leaving just because the cops wanted them to. They were protesting the international meeting. Now if you go to the Battle in Seattle and yes there were all sorts of Canadians at that little event. The Canadians did not disperse when asked to. Friends of mine were there with their kids. Protestors don’t disperse. Remember the Battle of the Woods, The protestors they had to carry away from the event, in Burnaby regarding the pipeline

    In my opinion, Horgan is doing the best he can. Telling people to not travel is a very good start. Lets not forget, this virus is AIR BORNE.

    I will be watching the Island Highway to see how many RVs are passing by. too many and I won’t even go out for groceries. I bring that disease home, it kills the sibling. Might endanger my position in the will.

  24. 13 says:

    another plane lands at YVR with 56 possible covid exposures on board and maybe more. They all pass through customs possibly infecting customs officers. The customs officers buy gas, go to appointments go shopping etc after work and the 56 cases are now multiplied .
    Next day Bonnie and Adrian tell us we must go the extra mile and stay at home. Stay in your small bubble. Dont go outside in any large group. Another passenger airliner arrives from India with 200 plus passengers and God knows how many covid cases on board.
    Yes Horgan cares about British Columbians but not enough to shut down flights to a constituency that supports the NDP. Yes its a Federal airport but the roads are provincial. Dr Bonnie could make Horgan put pressure on his pal Justin.
    Another plane load of variants and triple variants ( what ever the hell that is) lands at YVR.full of covid carrying voters
    Dr Bonnie tells us all to step up yadda yadda yadda

    (Response: I saw that story on Global’s Newshour … really well done by Ted Chernecki! An eye opener! Hopefully all the media will follow up with his angle of how infections are now being spread among us from that flight alone! h.o)

  25. HARRY LAWSON says:


    Great Post, some really great comments.

    We have the tools in the tool box all ready.

    We have the quarantine act, every issue we are having can be dealt with by enforcing the quarantine act.. Don’t want isolate upon entering the country to directly to jail. Mass gatherings arrest all retain for incubation period. Over the top maybe .

    However if our leaders led and used the law’s properly in the first place we wouldn’t be in this mess.

    We have Been bombarded by mixed messages from all levels of government right across this country.

    Leadership sucks, it is tough and it is thankless.

    Trudeau should be leading us the way Churchill led Great Britain, fight the covid enemy on all fronts and to hell with pandering for the next election.

    (Responses: Mixed messages … at all levels of government …is putting it mildly. How do politicians expect people to sustain dedication/obedience to admonishments to stay in your own tiny bubble or municipal area …as planes land daily carrying Covid-infected passengers from India; as mobs of hundreds hold gatherings (even set up sales kiosks, audio systems and party away the days and nights .. .without ANY equipment seizures/charges/consequences?) h.o)

  26. SG says:

    The government will not get a handle on containing the spread of Covid until they start making their decisions based on science rather than woke political correctness. The government stopped all direct flights from Mexico and the Caribbean into Canada to supposedly stop the spread of Covid, yet the very same government is not going to stop direct flights from India into Canada because they now say stopping international flights isn’t the answer, this is very contradictory and confusing. Personally I feel stopping direct flights from Mexico was to simply inconvenience and punish snowbirds which of course are older retired “white” people. But in Trudeau’s world, stopping flights from India might be construed as “systematic racism” on the part of the government. The only way to control the spread of Covid is to lock Canada and each province down tight, with strict and fully enforced Covid rules, but until that’s done Covid will not be contained. Horgan’s travel restrictions within the province will do nothing to stop the spread of Covid. A family flying into YVR from India is freely allowed to rent a car after their three day hotel quarantine and drive home to Prince George or Ft St John..

    (Response: With 300,000 new Covid cases in India now reported in a single day, Trudeau could no longer avoid it: the federal government has banned all direct flights from India and Pakistan effective tonight …and citizens from those countries arriving by flights indirectly will need new Covid tests before boarding. But it may already be too late: the Indian Covid variant is reportedly already here! h.o)

  27. BMCQ says:

    Absolutely NONE OF THIS gets any better, it only gets worse in Canada, what is wrong with our Federal Government, the PM, Dr. WHO/Tam, what is wrong with the Government, the Premier, Dr. Bonnie in V.C. ?

    How can any of them be comfortable with Air Flights coming from Covid Hot Spots where the MOST DANGEROUS Variants are coming from like India yet Harvey cannot drive a mile or two without the threat of being taking down that “Whacked Out” Mike Farnworth ?

    Finally the compliant and complicit media seem to be pushing back a little bit but why are media outside of the Prime Ministers Hide Out not push him on just exactly is going on with the Flights From India and other Hot Spots ?

    How much sense does any of this make ? Why are Government Officials afraid to stop flights from Hot Spots ? I travel a lot in business, in any given year I might travel to up to 17 different countries with many cities in each country and I HAVE NOT travelled anywhere because of my concern of not taking or returning to Canada with Covid or any variant . I am allowed to travel but I DO NOT ! I respect Canadians .

    The Prime Minister of Canada keeps mumbling and fumbling about “Uh Caring for uh Canadians”, why does media not question him on that, it could go something like this .

    “Mr. Prime Minister, you always tell us how you care so much for Canadians, if that is so then why are YOU and YOUR Officials NOT taking a stand and cancelling Flights incoming flights from India” ?

    Then they could then qask this as a follow up .

    ” Mr. PM, do you honestly believe that the UK, India, China, NOKO, or Iran would welcome incoming flights from Canada if Canada was a HOT^ SPOT” ?

    Those two questions would be good for a start . I know one thing for sure Harvey Oberfeld would ask both of those questions and more . Where the Hell are media on this, media should demand a question period that allows any question to be asked .

    Someone will point out that media are told what questions they are permitted to ask and which reporters get to ask those important questions which is factual but WHY NOT band together and demand the question period on the PM’s steps be more inclusive of other media and why not demand that ANY questions should be allowed, questions that the ”Great Unwashed” want answered ? Why NOT ?

    This whole mess in Canada is getting more and more out of hand and top of that we only get promises of Vaccine deliveries from the PM, thee are more delays with vaccine deliveries to Canada than there are in waiting for another sighting of Elvis, why are WE NOT angry ? Why are the PM and the Liberals still leading in the polls for the election that will be held in October 2021 ?

    Frankly I do not understand why Canadians have not taken to the streets to protest all of this, we are on the verge of going to hell in a hand cart and I am beginning to wonder if Canadians and Canadian media have any character at all .

    Then again, I suppose we cannot take to the streets to protest while wearing masks, as that action is reserved for BLM, Antifa, other Anarchists, Indigenous Protests, Drum Circles, 4/20, Enviro Whack Jobs blocking intersections, bridges, railway tracks, and Indian Farmers, therefore is no room for we hard working tax payers us and besides if we did show up to protest even wearing masks and social distancing Caped Crusader Mike Farnworth and his Minions would have the Police come down on us just like they do if you and I water our lawns in August !

    Between our Host Harvey and several of the contributors on this Blog there is more common sense than the Canadian Government, the B.C. Government, and Health Authorities all packed together .

    Please keep one vey important thing in mind, as I have mentioned on a previous post
    for the most part Canada and Canadians would not be in anywhere near as bad circumstance if we had a Canadian federal Government and PM that did the job they should have and acquired/procured Vaccines in a timely manner, Canadians are dying and many Canadians are suffering before they die, some poor souls have hoses rammed down their throats for in some cases weeks then after a tortuous and heroic fight for several weeks succumb and they die anyway . Then are those that contract Covid

    Then in the meantime YOUR Canadian Government and PM stand back and welcome Covid Flights to land at Canadian Airports without even a cursory glance .

    Some people will uh do uh anything for eh uh Vote !!

    Despicable at best !

    How can the general population of any country that “Trails most of the rest of the World” that the way we do in Canada condone any of the leadership we are getting ?

    “Read them and Weep” !


    (Response: Thursday afternoon, the federal government … after the NEW day’s toll from Covid in India topped 300,000 … finally announced a ban on all direct flights from India and Pakistan and extra pre-flight Covid testing of people from those countries arriving indirectly. Canada and the US should concentrate on forming our own “North America bubble” …with enhanced efforts to get vaccinations for all (who will accept it) and then re-opening our borders to all who are vaccinated. h.o)

  28. Not Sure says:

    You know, Harvey, I tried really hard to stay out of this discussion. Things change so rapidly that somebody can post something (why aren’t we banning flights?) and a few minutes later flights from India are banned. It is just too hard to keep up.

    But that really isn’t why I am here. I try to be a fact person. BMCQ said this

    “How can the general population of any country that “Trails most of the rest of the World” that the way we do in Canada condone any of the leadership we are getting ?

    “Read them and Weep” !

    And then links a site. https://ig.ft.com/coronavirus-chart/?areas=eur&areas=usa&areas=bra&areas=gbr&areas=ind&areas=hun&areasRegional=usny&areasRegional=usnj&areasRegional=usca&areasRegional=usnd&areasRegional=ussd&areasRegional=usmi&cumulative=0&logScale=0&per100K=1&startDate=2020-09-01&values=deaths

    Posting a site with no context, implying that there are stats there to weep over, just doesn’t cut it. How many people went to the site. Of those who did how many tried to find Canada. It took me a bit of time to navigate it. If you give up, you just take BMCQ’s word that we should be weeping. Guess what.

    There is a graph. The six countries listed (and that is the maximum that can be used at any one time) were Hungary Brazil the EU, the US, the UK, and India. You can play around and put in your own six countries if you want. I just eliminated Hungary and put in Canada. On April 21, the rolling seven day average deaths/100,000 has
    Brazil 1.33,
    EU .54,
    US .22,
    Canada .13
    India .12
    UK at .04.
    Compared to the UK we don’t look good. But compared to the others?

    How about cumulatively. Deaths/100,000 since this all began.

    UK 190
    Brazil 180
    US 170
    EU 150
    Canada 62
    India 13

    Compared to India at least to this point we don’t look good. But the others?

    OK, to be fair lets look at new cases. Right now the rolling average for new cases per 10000 has Brazil and the EU at 30, Canada is at 22, the US and India around 19 and the UK at less than 4. This is the first time that Canada has done worse than the US in cases per 100000, but since it all began, the US leads the way with 9660/100000, the EU, UK and Brazil are clustered at 6700/100000 and Canada is at 3072. India is much further down.

    Do any of these numbers indicate we are trailing the rest of the world. Of course we can cherry pick other countries but the UK, the US, the EU are as good a comparison as any.

    Or maybe I am missing something. What stats were you using BMCQ?

    (Response: I appreciate this contribution. With millions of people participating in comments/arguments/discussions on social media worldwide, everyone has their own sources for sets of “facts” and “statistics”. Blog or Twitter or Facebook or YouTube hosts/sponsors etc can’t possibly verify all the data that participants submit … and of course, what was true a few days or weeks or months ago may not hold up today. And yet, most of us don’t like to hinder exchanges by censorship … so it’s a good thing when people question/refute what each other say … and readers/viewers can make up their own minds. Except, of course, when THIS blogger makes a point: it s always right on!! ho)

  29. BMCQ says:

    ah yes, here it is just after 5:00 AM, I just finished reading my LME and I open up the Harvey Blog for a look see and I find that I have been “Fact Checked” !!

    I wish some on this Blog would take a few minutes and “Fact Check” the “Failed Canadian PM, his Health Authorities, the B.C. Government, and others in his world, after all, BMCQ just simply posted the wrong FT Covid Vacccine Roll Out Report, BMCQ IS NOT in any responsible for the absolutely “Failed” attempt at acquisition/procurement of ANY Vaccine for the people of Canada, people that are getting very sick, being maimed for life and actually Passing Away after a few weeks of choking on a hose in their throat, pain, and suffering due to the ineptitude of YOUR Hero PM Justin .

    We might also want to keep in mind that BMCQ was ridiculed on this vry Blog for forecasting that the USA and many other countries would have a far better and more superior Vaccine Roll Out than Canada as BMCQ had it on good authority that the Canadian PM HAD NOT secured any commitment from any FREE WORLD manufacture of a Covid Vaccine and Canada would therefore be at the so called “Back of the Bus” for both acquisition/procurement of ANY Vaccine and we would be even further back from most First World Nations when it came to “Jabs in Arms” . I was told I “Would have egg on my face” , who is wiping eggs off their chin now ?

    Yes, why not, let’s Fact Check PM Justin, there is lots to “Fact Check” !
    IMHO the PM can be held responsible for much of the pain suffering and death that has occurred on his watch, “PLEASE take a few minutes to “Fact Check Canadian PM Justin, you will much to occupy the next day or two .

    BTW – I Humbly apologize for posting the incorrect FT Covid Vaccine Roll Out Date piece, I was simply too hasty to post the FT piece and in my haste a mistake was made, I have now posted the correct updated Financial Times Covid Vaccinbe Roll Out Stat Sheet .

    “Read Them and Weep” !


    As to the comment where you stated that someone this blog can complain about flights from “Hot Spots” NOT paused/cancelled because only a day or two later the PM and his Minions would take action ? You seem to imply that my making that point or Harvey or anyone else making a similar statement was of no use because “Our Political Betters” would think about it the next day ?

    I ask you to consider a point or two .

    The Government with all of their technology, civil service, health authorities, pandemic specialists, and ALL the rest are supposed to be weeks and months ahead of the general population or Harvey and his fellow Bloggers, instead I am quite suspicious that Top Mensa Member PM Justin and his Minions may have very well got the idea to “Pause/Cancel” Flights from India from this very blog Harvey calls Keeping it Real” .

    I ask you to also keep in mind that the “Bad Orange Man” halted incoming flights to the USA from China about 14 months ago and he was called “Racist, Xenophobic, a Hater, and much more by almost every one, what do you think now ?

    One thing you might also want to “Fact Check”, please remember that air passengers that originated from “Hot Spots in China much like where the origin of the virus is were BANNED from travelling to major cities in China and when the “Bad Orange Man” paused travelers from China those very same caring and responsible flew to London, Paris, Amsterdam, Rome and other EU cities and then travelled to New York and that was the beginning of Death and Destruction .

    Then I ask you to “Fact Check” the FT Covid Roll Out Report and have a good look at just where Canada now stands, Does It Make You Proud ?

    Spin this as much as you wish but the ineptitude and dithering of your hero the Canadian PM and his Minions has failed Canada and failed Canadians .

    Fact Check that, I very much look forward to what you come back with .

    (Response: Fact checking is great …no matter who does it on whatever topic. The problem is anyone can find or ignore lots of information on any topic to fit their own points of view. People have to discern the “truth” for themselves … which probably in many cases lies somewhere in between. h.o)

  30. BMCQ says:


    Canada is soon going to be welcoming Air Flights from Turkey on Turkish Airlines, are you aware that Turkey is another “Covid Hot Spot” ?

    I wonder just how long will it take the Canadian PM to react to that after it was just posted by BMCQ on the Harvey Blog ?

    Will the Canadian PM halt Turkish Flights any time soon or will that policy turn into a major Covid Super Spreader Event ?

    An announcement on the Turkish Air Flights should have been made weeks ago, Turkey has been a Hot Spot for months .

    Where the Hell do the PM and his Minions get their information from ? Where the Hell is Dr. WHO/Tam on this ?

    oh and one more thing to consider as we are banning Harvey from travelling to Stanley Park or another Health Zone, let’s ALL keep in mind that a VERY HIGH percentage of those arriving on INDIRECT FLIGHTS from India and anywhere else that is a Hot spot will be WELL ARMED with what I started calling “Vaccine Passports” months ago.

    The difference between the VAX Passports you and I will carry is the fact that many of those arriving in Canada directly or indirectly from various Hot Spots will be “Fake/Counterfeit”, many of those arriving DO NOT GIVE A FIG about YOU or anyone else in Canada, they only care about themselves .

    “Fact check” that and while you are at it include a report of your own explaining just how dangerous the latest “Super Covid Mutant Variant Virus from India happens to be . Will the current Vaccines that we in Canada have or DO NOT HAVE be potent enough have an affect on the double Mutant Variant or will we in Canada be back to square one ? God Help Us .

    Then stand back and wait as the whole B.C. to Alaska goes away as Crusie Lines will soon have crews that are fully immunized along with eager passengers who are fully immunized with legitimate official Vaccine Passports boarding departing sailings right out of Seattle, by passing Vancouver and Victoria for obvious reasons and taking about $ 12 Billion Dollars out of the B.C. Economy and damaging Victoria beyond belief .

    Do not worry though as this change by moving Cruise ship Departures exclusively to Seattle will be permanent, we in B.C. may never be bothered by Cruise Ships ever again, thank you PM Justin .

    “Fact Check” any and all of that .

    I hope I am on topic Harvey, I tried to keep this topical with background information that is important to my case .


  31. SG says:

    Hi Harvey, in regards to direct flights being banned from India and Pakistan for the next 30 days, this is will do very little if anything to stop the spread of Covid. A quick look at the Canadian Quarantine Hotel FB group is a real eye opener. Only direct flights from India are banned, non Canadian residents coming from India are now switching to connecting flights with other airlines, and Canadian residents coming from India are now going to land in the states, have a car service drive them to the border, then walk into Canada. There’s no way the brain trust in the Trudeau government wasn’t aware of this giant loophole. The spread of Covid will not be stopped until Canada and each province is locked down tight.

    (Response: Canada can’t stop Canadian citizens or landed immigrants from, coming “home” ….but clearly there has to be more checks/enforcement, maybe even arrests, not just fines, for those who violate isolation/quarantine rules. But looks to me like EVERY level of government, in EVERY province, is being really tough on the mostly law abiding citizens while doing little or nothing to the huge numbers and groups of partiers (homes, parks, beaches) and protestors holding marches, mass rallies WITHOUT social distancing or masks … almost guaranteed to be spreading Covid amongst themselves and later among the rest of us. h.o)

  32. RIsaak says:

    To the excuse mongers for Trudeau & the upper level bureaucrats, we could have made a manufacturing facility, we had more than enough time to get one built, drug companies would have allowed manufacture under license, this happens in the real world! We used to have leaders who lead, now we have leaders who follow, continually consult, but seem to have failed at basic business concepts, not surprising! Any sound business always looks at producing internally before considering outsourcing. Of course no one in the Liberal cabinet has ran anything approaching a sound business!

    Living in the Okanagan, still seeing lots of red plates, Quebec, Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan & a Nova Scotia one, all in the last week.

    Folks who jump quarantine by arriving by land as opposed to air, just exploiting the many loopholes of convenience which seem to surface on almost every government concept these days.

    Prime Minister who marches in a BLM rally during stay at home orders, while in BC my family had a health ministry employee counting graveside attendees at a funeral on the same day is why we have folks playing with all the rules and regulations! Why is political posturing an acceptable reason for gathering with many others in public when other citizens are forced into compliance, enough of this do as I say, not as I do!

    Now cue up the defenders of the exact behavior the expect us to comply with while our PM flaunted these rules!

  33. Not Sure says:

    I am sorry if I hit a nerve, but there is a way to discuss a topic and a way not to. We have to at least agree on what information we are discussing. Posting a link with just “read them and weep” does nothing. But BMCQ did it again. That link has plenty of stats. Which one am I supposed to look at.

    But I will play along. It appears that BMCQ is using the fully vaccinated stat. Canada is quite a ways down the list for sure at 2.6%. And that is because Canada has decided to get one shot to everybody as fast as possible. People can debate that decision all they want. But if we look at the number of actual doses being administered, we are in about 20th, a far cry from the 50+ spot back in March. And vaccines are continuing to arrive.

    So this is what is stupid about these discussions. BMCQ can claim that Trudeau sucks because we haven’t FULLY vaccinated a lot of people. He can also claim that the US and the UK are now doing better case wise as they have been able to vaccinate a much greater % of their population.

    But Canada is doing as good as or better than nearly every European country in getting vaccines into arms and our cases/100000 is still better than the EU. Canada’s death rate right now is better than the UK, the US and the EU. Overall Canada has done much better in terms of cases and deaths compared to the US, the UK and the EU over the past year.

    Those are facts. (and yes we could compare ourselves to other countries but I think the US UK and EU are as fair as any)

    Now can things change. Of course they can. And that is why making comments about how good or bad Canada is doing at a specific moment in time is kind of pointless.

    Which brings me to the banned flights to India. Right now, Canada is one of a handful of countries that have banned flights. There are several countries like the US and most EU countries who have travel advisories but not bans. I would post a link but likely that information will be outdated by the time Harvey lets you read this.

    (Response: Readers may recall that, before the variants kicked in, I supported allowing people from various countries in IF they agreed/could afford to quarantine on arrival for 14 days. The variants have changed that: apparently they float/transmit much easier … so now is not the time to welcome anyone …except our own citizens and those coming for truly essential reasons … quaranteening them voluntarily 14 days: up to the required three days in a designated, secured hotel (arresting them if they refuse) and then the required balance wherever they planned to stay. h.o)

  34. e.a.f. says:

    It is really too soon for me to be agreeing with BMCQ, but if he’s correct, he’s correct. I share his concerns regarding flights from Turkey.

    We ought not to have direct flights from any country which is a “hot spot”, nor should we permit anyone, except Canadian citizens/permanent residents, to enter the country from one of these “hot spots”, directly or indirectly. Flying from India to another country adn then into Canada is way to easy and we do need to have very strict rules about what type of proof people need to demonstrate they have had their vaccines. Its too easy to forge them, as I explained in an earlier post.

    My concern is not only are people bringing covid into the country, but once they need medical help, they’ll be in our hospitals which will become over crowded.

    Have a safe weekend everyone.

    (Response: No matter where they’re from, there should be checks to make sure people arriving are either Canadians coming home … or only those others who have a valid ESSENTIAL reason to be here. And visiting family or attending a wedding or festival etc. is NOT essential travel: they should not be allowed to board …or, on arrival, sent right back. No refund. h.o)

  35. Gilbert says:

    PM Trudeau finally made the decision to ban flights from India. It came too late, but that’s his style. If he were a chess player, he would be the type who has no strategy but merely reacts. Oh, my queen is under attack, I’d better move her.

    The key for the Conservatives is to announce good policies for the country. They need to show they’re ready to lead. The clown who fired a doctor and lawyer will do what he does best: make unrealistic promises and merely react.

  36. 13 says:

    Things can change so comparing Canada to anywhere is pointless?????????????? So watching any event in its entirety is a waste of time just wait for the conclusion.
    I would imagine Trudeau would happily subscribe to the practice of not comparing Canada to any other country till the end of the crisis. The less we compare Canada to elsewhere the less Trudeaus mistakes would make it obvious that he is not a capable leader.
    For more on Trudeaus unsurpassed ability to drop the ball look at comments in previous blog topic. Or dont bother until the crisis is over as what could possibly change

  37. HARRY LAWSON says:


    We are we are over a year and a bit living with covid, get we are still winning our wheels.

    We don’t want to offend groups or other nations. We are willing to restrict other public gatherings with little rhyme or reason .

    If covid is being treated like a war than why have we not built vaccine plants? During the as2 they built warships within months. Over simplification maybe . But really what the hell!!!

    Where are the opposition parties? The house need not sit to hold the government’s accountable. The house needs not to sit to present alternative policies and methodologies.

    When I think of Trudeau I am reminded of the mad magazine picture of Alfred E Neuman dressed as Nero playing the violin.

    (Response; No doubt Trudeau government has fumbled the vaccine rollout quite a lot: trusted China to cooperate on joint vaccine venture; bought huge amounts of vaccines offshore but neglected to assure timely deliveries; didn’t accept offers from Canadian companies to use existing facilities to manufacture vaccines rapidly …instead is building a brand new plant in Quebec; and, now very slow in blocking flights/reacting to huge numbers in India (afraid of losing votes?). BUT from what I’ve seen and heard them say, I’m not so sure the Tories would have been any better. h.o)

  38. BMCQ says:

    None of this should be anything about ones political beliefs or followings, everything to do with travel, whether it be national, regional, provincial, or international should be about protecting vulnerable, not do vulnerable Canadians, Canadian Infrastructure, Services, Health Care, Economies right across the country and regionally and anything else to do with preserving the Canadian Heart and Soul .

    Race, ethnicity, skin tone, religion, or social beliefs and practices should ALL take second or third place to the preservation of all of those I have listed and no doubt more that I have not listed .

    Canadians are principled, respectful, caring, freedom loving people but they also demand that Canadians are al EQUAL and Canadians contrary to Race Pimps, Poverty Pimps, PC SJWarrior Social Engineers believe NONE of us should be MORE Equal than others, NO Special Deals or privileges for anyone .

    Canadians are not “Racists” when they demand halts/restrictions on entry of anyone into Canada that could ‘might be carrying a virus that could bring sickness, death, and destruction within Canadian Borders, whether those arriving originate from Turkey, China, India, Sweden, or Brazil and Politicians such as the Canadian PM, his Minions, and Health Authorities need to put Canada and Canadians here now first, this is no time for PC SJW Mumbo Jumbo playing to media and special interests who care only about re electing the Canadian PM and his party .

    I do not understand and never will understand why politicians of any brand cater to those such as Race Pimps, the Activist Media, PC SJ Warriors and place Canadians of any background to the back of the bus, it is over a year since the PM and his Government have acted responsibly, they have dropped the ball on incoming travel several times, they have failed in acquisition/procurement of vaccines, they have failed to lead in other areas already pointed out by several on this blog and that same PM and Federsl Government in spite of many failures keep telling gullible media and Canadians that “More Vaccines are coming and things will be uh great” !

    Guess what ? Canadians are beginning to question the capabilities of ALL Federal, Provincial, Civic Politicians, and Health Care Officials right across the country and confidence and safety are beginning to fade .

    If the Double Variants are not controlled and it turns out that the DELAY of acquiring Vaccines by the Canadian PM affects the efficacy of vaccines we currently have a shortage of due to the possible fact that the more potent variants are very much resistant too we could very well be worse odd than we have ever been before in Canada and that could prove to be a disaster we may not recover from for generations, not to mention the destruction and death .

    In the meantime Media are probably only doing a fraction of what they should be doing, why are they not demanding more answers and accountability ?

    My wife and I both received our FIRST Jab this morning with a promise of another sometime in August, sure it might keep people out of the hospital but what about that four month delay and what about the efficacy ? No doubt we will require a Third Jab !

    Jesus Christ our Sports Days at Van Horne Elementary School in Vancouver were far better organized than this and our lives were not at risk !

    People that work for my country in the UK, Florida, Boston, Palm City FLA, New Orleans, and Seattle are ALL Dosed Up and basically back to normal, why are Canadians so docile, where is the outrage ?

    Yes of course several countries are much like Canada and struggling, even EU Nations which seem to have Leadership much like Canada are struggling but do we not sometimes, sort of, believe we in Canada are on the Cutting Edge ? Maybe not .

    I am well aware that some of you are Not Sure, you are polite, do not like to take a stand on anything unless you want a better view, and some would rather give everything up so you are never confrontational or assertive but I am here to tell you we are quite possibly in serious trouble, it is time to wake up, if not for yourselves then for your children and grandchildren .

    I suppose the other choice you have is to simply go back into your Mommies basement stay safe, lay low, and allow the Canadian PM and his Team lead you to the Promised Land !

    I will never understand why so many allow their political ideology and beliefs clod their judgement and good old common sense .

    I thought Canadians were better than that .

    I now feel more than ever before that China has won WW III without firing a single shot!

    Please take note that when e.a.f. agrees with BMCQ there is a good chance they are correct . If you are not sure of that I cannot help you .

  39. BMCQ says:

    Stu de Baker

    To answer your question of how authorities effectively stop those disregarding Covid rules .

    Follow Harvey’s suggestions “ To the Letter” !

    Society needs accountability, society needs deterrent, why do you think we have Red Light Cameras, Points for driving infractions, and say tickets for riding motor cycles without helmets . If Bicyclists were ticketed say $ 300.00 for no helmets lives would be saved and we would save $Millions in Health Care and ICBC premiums .

    Why do you think the Feds charge interest and penalties on unpaid taxes ? Imagine how much income the Feds could collect if they charged Off Shore Investors and others for Property Flips and other similar infractions if they made the effort, again $ Millions in income and deterrent !

    The City of Vancouver could save $ Millions on policing and other costs related if they had escalating fines and eventual,jail time for repeat offenders who fight on the Granville Strip, after a few escalating fines fighting would stop and the city would be a better and safer place .

    Same thing for Littering, very simple .

    Common sense goes a long way .

    “Yes Men’ ? My … !

  40. Not Sure says:

    OK for BMCQ who wanted me to fact check Trudeau (whatever that means) and for 13 and anybody else who thinks my sole purpose is to defend the federal government, I am going to fact check Harvey’s response to Harry. About the Trudeau government Harvey states they

    1. “fumbled the vaccine rollout quite a lot” Hard to argue
    2 “trusted China to cooperate on joint vaccine venture” That they did
    3 “bought huge amounts of vaccines offshore but neglected to assure timely deliveries” Certainly appeared that way
    4 “didn’t accept offers from Canadian companies to use existing facilities to manufacture vaccines rapidly” True
    5 “very slow in blocking flights/reacting to huge numbers in India” I am going to quibble here. The UK banned flights on Monday, Canada on Thursday but only a handful of countries have banned flights from India at all so slow compared to UK but fast compared to other countries? Gilbert’s point about the government reacting rather than leading may be a fair comment.

    So do people have reasons to criticize the government? Absolutely. But we also have Harvey saying.

    6 “BUT from what I’ve seen and heard them say, I’m not so sure the Tories would have been any better” Of course that is opinion and can’t be proven without an alternate universe to see how the Conservatives would have done, but everybody except an extreme partisan is likely to agree with Harvey.

    But that is not all. There are other factors to consider.

    Going back to #1 and #3, this is what the Toronto Star said in an editorial about rich countries having a duty to help poor countries get vaccines.

    “As much as we complain about the rocky rollout of vaccines, Canada is actually doing fairly well at this point. Based on the number of people who’ve received a first dose — the strategy our health authorities have chosen — Canada is now third among G7 countries and in the top 10 among OECD nations.”

    Notice that even the Liberal friendly Star have caveats – “strategy chosen” and “at this time” but 3rd in G7 and top ten in OECD can’t be ignored.

    Hold on to your hat Harvey I am going to agree with you one more time when you said this about fact checking. “Fact checking is great …no matter who does it on whatever topic. The problem is anyone can find or ignore lots of information on any topic to fit their own points of view. People have to discern the “truth” for themselves … which probably in many cases lies somewhere in between.”

    Exactly (and while I have no use for Kellyanne Conway she was unfairly roasted for using “alternative facts” because that is exactly what she meant). So Liberal haters can find lots of reasons to continue the hate. But at the same time, Canada has not been a total basket case and is NOT anywhere close to “trailing the rest of the world”. (at least this is true as of April 25 at 7:30 am)

    Hope that clarifies.

  41. BMCQ says:

    I am quite sure, actually no, I am absolutely positive that there are dozens of other stories with sordid details much like the attached below that the “Canadian Great Unwashed” know nothing about . Having said that why are Governments Federal and Provincial so slow to take charge and immediately stop what is taking place right across this country ?

    The stories just keep coming, as do the Most Dangerous Variants of Covid !!

    Was THIS Reported locally in any media ? I have not seen or heard anything from local B.C. Media as yet today, I hope they at least made an attempt to cover this .


    Honestly, can ANY who participate on this Blog find ANY excuse for this ?

    I am sure that some on this Blog are not sure that this kind of behavior in unacceptable but i certainly do, People that enter Canada win this fashion care nothing about the Rule of Law, they care nothing about Canada, and they care absolutely nothing about Canadians !!

  42. Stu de Baker says:

    BMCQ’s indignant question on April 25, about quarantine avoidance and the border taxi trade: “Was THIS Reported locally in any media ? I have not seen or heard anything from local B.C. Media as yet today, I hope they at least made an attempt to cover this.”

    Well yes actually; the CBC covered it two days earlier.

    As Harvey said earlier, if you use selective reading and fact checking, you can find lots to support your bias.

  43. Robert McQuillan says:

    Please re read my post, I clearly stated that I HAD NOT seen local media and I indeed prefaced that statement with this comment, “Was this reported”, how could anyone be offended, confused or question my very clear statement .

    I work every day beginning just before 5:00 AM, my days are long and I am soaking Wet in chemistry, math, and physics all of that day, on the weekend I do work around the house and yard which is basically a full time job and whenever I can I conduct Environmental Research, I golf, give me a break .

    Unlike some here I do not have the time to luxuriate in the Hot Tub or sit in front of a screen all day, I have plenty to keep myself occupied .

    Therefore I do not always get a chance to see all local YVR or B.C. News Reports, that is WHY I prefaced my point and cut and paste story with the question, I did not want to put myself in the position of being questioned and fact checked .

    I sincerely thought some/most here would be able to appreciate the fact that I DO NOT always see every single bit of mostly frivolous bits of news, DO YOU ?

    Frankly we now record the News and every single night we are finished with it by the end of the weather forecast, it is now too hard to take .


    The Television in my house is basically incapable of receiving the Roof Top Rabbit Earswill not turn that far left, it rotates just far enough to bypass the CBC and seek the FOX News Channel Signal !

    YIKES !

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