BC Pushes Indigenous Over 65s AHEAD of Others Up to 80 …. Even Those with Life-Threatening Conditions

The BC NDP government has made race a criteria in determining WHO will get vaccinated WHEN against Covid.

In a media briefing Friday, Premier John Horgan, Health Minister Adrian Dix and Provincial Heath Officer Dr. Bonnie Henry repeatedly emphasized AGE would be the determining factor in mass vaccination scheduling.

“Age is the predominate determinate factor in illness and death,” Horgan emphasized.

” “We know that the single-greatest risk factor for illness and death from COVID-19 is increasing age,” added Dr. Henry.

And their friends in the complacent, compliant media reported the story just the way the NDP government wanted it: it will be all about AGE.

Not quite!

The full schedule the NDP rolled out made a HUGE exception: ALL indigenous British Columbians over 65 … even those in superb health, living off reserve in urban areas, where full medical services are available … will still be moved AHEAD of all their neighbours: people of other races (whites, blacks, Asians) 65 to 80 years old … to get their vaccinations months before they do.

The new BC vaccination schedule is quite clear:

Phase One (current) has emphasized: long-term care home and assisted living residents; those awaiting long term care admissions; essential visitors; health care workers in Covid treatment areas, paramedics; and remote and Indigenous communities.

Now don’t confuse this latest racist rollout with the previous government decision to vaccinate in REMOTE communities, where Covid could spread like wildfire and where health treatment facilities are limited.

I believe most British Columbians understood and supported taking care to protect those vulnerable communities.

But now the NDP is going further: dividing the rest of BC’s population along racial lines .. and giving preferential treatment to some.

Phase Two: February and March will include seniors over 80, additional groups of health-care workers, vulnerable populations (shelters, group homes), nursing-home staff and … INDIGENOUS SENIORS OVER 65, anywhere in the province, even if they’re in perfect health.

Non-Indigenous 65 years olds, however, will have to wait until May … three months later: even those suffering from heart disease, high blood pressure, diabetes … serious life threatening conditions.

In fact, the Indigenous 65 year olds will also be vaccinated AHEAD of others 70 to 79 years old too, again even those with compromised health conditions, who will have to wait until Phase Three … April to get their first shot (barring any further delays).

Surely, EVERYONE living in major urban or medically-served rural towns and cities throughout BC should be treated equally!

The government has not explained or produced any clinical evidence to explain the discriminatory preferential treatment for Indigenous community members over 65. Nor has the media demanded it. (Surprised?)

So I took a break from my “retirement” and phoned the government’s Health Ministry “Communications” office in Victoria and offered them a chance to explain.

No response. (I guess bloggers aren’t considered worthy by the NDP government … except before elections, when the NDP sent me ALL their press releases and even invites to their Media events).

No big deal, though, because the FULL truth about the government’s handling of Covid IS getting out, despite their friends among the “working” media ignoring or downplaying it.

And the latest polls show that.

Most BC Residents (57%) Give Provincial Government Low Scores for Rollout of Vaccination Plan To Date; Significant Number (38%) Not Impressed With Priority List,” concluded an Insights West poll done Jan 13-18.

Now that the full vaccination schedule has been released, and we know several front-line groups AND most of those up 79 years old, even with compromised health systems, will wait extra months … while Indigenous British Columbians 65, even in great health, go AHEAD of them … the NDP should begin to understand why it’s dropping in the polls.

Harv Oberfeld

(Since most of the media is not reporting this story … feel free to pass it on!)

This entry was posted in British Columbia, Media, National. Bookmark the permalink.

62 Responses to BC Pushes Indigenous Over 65s AHEAD of Others Up to 80 …. Even Those with Life-Threatening Conditions

  1. 13 says:

    Harvey its easy to see why Trudeau and Horgan get along so well. A pair of pandering, politically correct, politicians. To see FN get yet another perk , privilege, is not unusual.
    Is it right? No. But the list of inequalities between two otherwise equal Canadians is skewed if one of the equal Canadians happens to be FN.
    Placing one Canadian ahead of another based on race while being unethical, unfair is just the norm in this day and age.
    BTW personally I can not get the vaccine for medical reasons . Thankfully the NDP once again managed to screw over seniors by tossing the race card into the mix.
    Excuse me while I tip toe out of this mine field.

    (Response: Now that we know most 65 years old will wait until May and those 70 to 80 will wait until April, surely the media should be asking WHY all Indigenous 65 year olds (First Nations, Metis and Inuit) living anywhere in the province, even without any serious medical conditions, can get the vaccine in February??? It sure looks like a racist policy! h.o)

  2. D. M. Johnston says:

    And it was ever thus.

    The big problem with this post is that you are reporting the obvious, what most people know but are afraid to acknowledge, race is a big, big factor in Canadian politics.

    Both the NDP and the Liberals believe in a tiered system of being Canadian and we must revisit Orwell’s Animal Farm famous quote “All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others”. In the Canadian sense; All Canadians are equal, but some Canadians are more equal than others.”

    The First Nations have well played their historic grievances (and the true story of the residential schools is far worse than portrayed but government is deathly afraid to admit to that) and by doing so, have become “more equal Canadians”.

    The NDP and their holier than thou attitude; their pandering to niche ethnic and religious groups have created an apartheid system far more sinister than many believe.

    A personal note: My son who is half Asian is very good at a particular sport and when he competed at a provincial level competition, reps from both UBC and SFU were falling all over themselves with all sorts of offers to attend their university. With a name sounding like and a look like a member of the first nations, he was offered scholastic help, bursaries, government money and an almost free ride (also hinted at a chance of trying out for a Canadian team), until they found out he wasn’t and then completely ignored him, a stigma which continued with at later competitions.

    This is the puerile nonsense that now is rampant in BC and Canada and Horgan’s NDP’s racist vaccine rollout confirms this.

    Racism exists in BC, only it ain’t the racism that the media love to report on.

    (Response: Perhaps there are clinical stats that indicate ALL Indigenous people … even those living off reserve in major areas and even following the advice of Dr Henry … still get Covid faster/easier than anyone else. Then I’d understand …but WHY isn’t the government explaining if these over 65s have special medical problems that white, black, Asians don’t …and why isn’t the media asking about it??? (Many of us can probably answer that last part ourselves!) h.o)

  3. G. Barry Stewart says:

    This situation does sound shocking and unfair — but we don’t know the backstory, if there is one. Transparency is needed… though when race is involved, words are chosen uber-carefully and the truth doesn’t always make it through.

    Since Indian Affairs is a national responsibility, perhaps a mandate has been laid down from on high? Vaccine roll-out news from other provinces and territories would tell us if there’s a familiar pattern. We’ll see.

    I now will hold my tongue… behind my mask.

    (Response: This is a provincial NDP decision .. and it does seem VERY unfair … even RACIST. As I stated, most British Columbians could understand when vulnerable remote communities (of any kind) would receive expedited treatments because they live so close together and have limited health facilities. This is something quite different … singling out EVERYONE over 65 from the Indigenous population, living anywhere, and pushing them to the front of the line, while others 65 to 80 who happen to be of other races are forced to wait MONTHS longer!! And nowhere have I seen clinical study data that say Indigenous people living in the exact same community conditions as everyone else still get Covid easier/faster … even if they wash their hands, wear masks and sanitize. Sure looks like a political racist decision to me! h.o)

  4. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    where is the science ?

    Did the government consult the communities involved ? i am sure they did not .

    We are looking at a non science based roll out not based on health but on potential political gain , pandering at its best.

    Would this happen under a minority government ? where is the opposition , ? they must be pandering too.

    welcome tot vision BC you thought Vancouver was screwed up.

    protection should be based on science not political demographics

    (Response: I like to think MOST people do have a sense of fairness. As readers know, I have blogged repeatedly that second Covid shots should be given exactly when the companies said they should … even though that meant I would have to wait longer to get MY shots. So I like to think MOST Indigenous British Columbians would want to get the shots on the same calendar as their fellow citizens (Remember we are NOT talking remote communities in this case!)and realize the NDP’s separating those 65 or over into a “preferred” group, without explaining or DEMONSTRATING any scientific/clinical evidence for doing so, does not help them achieve equality or respect in the long run. h.o)

  5. Rainclouds says:

    Thanks for commenting on this SJW/ Woke reverse discrimination . I am willing to bet Indigenous people themselves think this is an asinine pandering sop by a politically correct cabal of paternalistic politicians.

    The vaccine issue isn’t about race, its about protection for the population. Your ETHNICITY shouldn’t be a consideration.

    Unbelievable that anyone in public office would have the temerity to mandate this moronic stipulation.

    (Response: Your middle paragraph is right on! When I saw the separate timetables, I wondered if there was perhaps a scientific/clinical/genetic difference in Indigenous people that would justify it …but could find absolutely no explanation anywhere that even suggested that. Ands when I placed TWO calls to TWO different “Communications” offices of the NDP government …and neither replied, I figured I must be one to something … that I caught the NDP playing politics with people’s health and lives. And their friends in BC’s soft media are too compromised or afraid to take up or even question the scheduling. The NDP is lucky the election is over: can you imagine the public reaction if they did this BEFORE we all voted!!! h.o)

  6. Horace B. says:

    Great sleuthing–but for historical reasons, offering First Nation elders the vaccine first is simply the right thing to do.

    (Response: The ultimate goal of any civilized society should be equality. Separating people by race or religion etc for uneven medical treatment/scheduling is disgraceful, disgusting … and will only increase any divides. h.o)

  7. Gilbert says:

    This is racism. There’s no doubt about that. Maybe the government is trying to reverse the mistakes of the past by favouring indigenous Canadians.

    (Response: If so (but I doubt it) that should be done by educational, hiring, assistance programs and projects … not by placing sick people’s lives in jeopardy by pushing perfectly healthy others ahead of them for potentially life-saving medical treatments or vaccine. h.o.)

  8. nonconfidencevote says:

    Once again our “brave” politicians prostrate themselves before the Politically Correct agenda.

    God forbid anyone raise the race card at a presser and ask the Premier or Dix if there is a double standard.

    Far be it for me to suggest all this pc pandering may actually be creating racism?

    (Response: I agree … singling out ANY particular race for priority treatment/service over their neighbours within any large well-served urban community CREATES division and resentment. Political correctness run amuck! And for the NDP to include that in their rollout policy .. and not have a single reporter covering the event even raise it as a fair question … OR REPORT IT … is appalling. Perhaps even deliberate cover up? h.o)

  9. Elle says:

    For those that have not seen this article –

    Canadian Press
    https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/01/21/news/ottawa-advocating-prioritize-vaccines-indigenous-people-miller
    This has obviously been driven by the Federal government.

    (Response: Thank you for this. Certainly looks like the Liberal federal government could indeed have a hand in the NDP’s development of its pandering policy. As I said, I don’t think most people have any objection to having expedited vaccinations in what the article refers to as “underserved” Indigenous communities. But it’s a bit patronizing and even racist, seems to me, to suggest ALL Indigenous people 65 and older, living in cities and towns off reserves, even those highly educated and well-employed skilled members of our society, still can’t take care of themselves (masking, self-distancing, sanitizing)or wait their turn by age like the rest of the community and have to taken by the hand to the front of the line months earlier to be protected. h.o)

  10. e.a.f. says:

    I’m fine with First Nations getting vaccine’s first. We need to get over our white priviledge. We saw how small pox decimated First Nations, lets not do a repeat. We have seen in the U.S.A. there is a higher death rate amongst African Americans and Latinix people when it comes to COVID. Lets not have a do over in Canada with First Nations people.

    Had to laugh, First Nations are finally at the front of the line and some people are not happy. Well too bad, so sad. They need those vaccines. There is a higher death rate amongst Indigenous people who catch COVID than those of European descent.

    There is a study, done at U.B.C. a number of years ago within the Indigenous community concerning AIDs. The study examined Indigenous people, those whose ancestors had gone to residential school and those who did not. All participants were drug users who used needles. The result of the study determined, that descendants of those who were in residential schools had a higher rate of contacting AIDs than those whose ancestors had not gone to residential school. They concluded going to residential school had such a profound effect on the people it changed their DNA. This study alone ought to ensure First Nations people receive the vaccine first.

    Harvey, regarding your response to Horace. equality isn’t always justice or provides equity. Sometimes there has to be different treatment for different groups of people to achieve equity. Its sort of like that line, both the rich and poor are equally entitled to sleep under bridges.

    giving every one within the Indigenous community the vaccine in priority to other groups, ensures the elders have a better chance of survival. In many bands the elders are living resources of history whether they live on or off the reserve or in urban or rural areas. We have seen bands ensure no unnecessary people come onto band land to protect the lives of the community.

    Now I’m sure there will be more than a few who say there isn’t any evidence that Indigenous People are impacted more seriously by COVID than non Indigenous People. I for one am not willing to take that chance. They can move to the head of the line. I’ll wait.

    (Response: The goal of a progressive society in 2021 should be to achieve EQUALITY for all … period. Your ultra-liberal self hate may make you feel good, but I doubt all those who in Feb, March, April lose family or friends 70 to 80 years old and suffering from heart disease, cancer, diabetes, severe blood pressure problems yet can’t get the vaccine till April will be happy to see fully healthy 65-year-old neighbours get the shot in Feb just because they’re Indigenous. Doesn’t seem to me a great way to bring people together. h.o)

  11. NVG says:

    https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/emergency-preparedness-response-recovery/covid-19-provincial-support/vaccines

    Phase 2,
    Timeline: February to March 2021,
    !Seniors aged 80 and over who are not immunized in Phase 1;

    !Indigenous (First Nations, Métis and Inuit) seniors age 65 and over, Elders and additional Indigenous communities not immunized in Phase 1;

    !Hospital staff, community general practitioners (GPs) and medical specialists not immunized in Phase 1;

    !Vulnerable populations living and working in select congregated settings;
    !Staff in community home support and nursing services for seniors;

  12. Not Sure If I'm Wasting My Time But... says:

    Five minutes on google.

    Are Indigenous people more vulnerable? Yes, especially on reserves.

    https://www.covid19facts.ca/en/fact-checked/indigenous-communities-are-more-susceptible-to-covid-19

    Are they more vulnerable off reserve? Also yes. It is a few years old but I doubt that things have changed.

    https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/more-off-reserve-first-nations-people-reporting-poor-health-chronic-conditions-1.2859147

    It would be nice if there were a way to make a list of every single British Columbian in order of vulnerability but that is not practical. So they have selected the most vulnerable groups. Indigenous People both on and off reserve are a high risk for a whole slew of reasons (historical, socio-economic, educational etc). That may be the reason elders 65+ are given priority.

    (Response: It’s NEVER a waste of time to engage in public discussions, disagreements, debate: ask those around the world who are denied the privilege! Meanwhile, as I have stated repeatedly, I don’t believe most British Columbians have, or had, any dispute with vaccinating in remote isolated communities of any kind …or even those forced to live in crowded conditions, like prisons etc. to stem the spread of Covid. However, as Elle pointed out, this does seem to be largely spearheaded by the federal Liberals (sweetening their Indigenous appeal in the upcoming election and I believe political political pandering pushed by the NDP in BC. The 2016 study you refer to had NOTHING to do with Covid of course, just general health problems encountered by people apparently failing to take care of themselves. If THAT’S the criteria, surely there are whites, blacks, Asians over 65 who also don’t take care of themselves as best they can … so why not push them ahead of everyone else also to get the vaccine too? (I think I’d qualify!!) But to separate a whole RACE out, at 65 years old … even those who are healthy, take care of themselves very well, have no special heart disease, cancer, diabetes … and vaccinate them ahead of others with those who DO have those very life-threatening conditions is divisive, RACIST and inexcusable! And should be exposed/questioned by BC’s gutless media. h.o)

  13. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey, its not “self hate”. I’m fairly in love with myself. its always about me. anyone who knows me can tell you that. Its just that in my opinion, First Nations people will die at a higher rate if they catch COVID than those of us of European descent. There has been some interesting medical research over the last few years which includes how much DNA our bodies have from Neathanderals. Yes, it turns out not only did they “date”, they formed relationships, and had children with our ancestors, human.

    I’m also not in favour of putting seniors at the top of the list for the vaccines. We’ve already gotten a foot on the banana peel, so to speak. When I look around my street, I see my immediate neighbours, 4 couples under 40 all with small children. Its much more important they receive the vaccine. If they die, or become long haulers, who will raise the children, who will perform the jobs they do now. Me, I’m retired, 71. If seniors die, it will be sad, but we’ve lived our lives. We’ve made our contributions to society. Parents who are still raising children die, we have a problem and those children may have problems for the rest of their lives.

    I understand vaccinating seniors in care homes is important because it keeps the overall death rate down and it keeps workers healthy but had we paid any real attention to care homes over the past 40 years we might not be in this positions, but that is a topic for another time.

    We have seen the impact of disease on First Nations people. Lets not do a repeat.

    (Response: I get it. There are kinds of historical wrongs that could/should be addressed. BUT … and I believe the UN and the World Health Organization would agree … that when it comes to fighting a virus that kills people, especially those with certain health conditions, it’s totally unacceptable to decide by RACE who gets the vaccine before their neighbours in the very same community. And in BC, the NDP government is doing even worse: giving priority to even healthy, fit Indigenous residents over 65 years old BEFORE others in their 70s, right up to 80 years old, even those with serious life threatening conditions, who happen to be white, black, Asian. Outrageous!! RACIST!! h.o)

  14. G. Barry Stewart says:

    To all of us, there is good news — thanks to Canadian researchers. A drug used for treatment of gout has a good effect on COVID patients as well.

    Not a cure, or prevention — but a good treatment.

    https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/quebec-researchers-say-they-have-found-an-effective-drug-to-fight-covid-19-1.5279310?fbclid=IwAR1ffukyJt0gVZL0MbUHzecvFj1xSGp2omuDmA6T9h-2bhRRqK0eLArb2DI

    (Response: I saw that. Eventually we will get this pandemic under control and most will get the vaccine. But I think it will be long, long time before life gets back to “normal” in our cities, workplaces and especially when it comes to travel to other countries and continents. h.o)

  15. r says:

    per capita heritage of black and latino have had higher negative health reactions to said virus

  16. David Tarris says:

    To put this in context. Only 5% of B.C.’s population identifies as Indigenous. 95% of British Columbia’s Land Mass is unceded traditional First Nations territory. Most of all of our cherished private property is included. An authentic abstract of Title is a record of the title history of a property. This document is critical for purchasers or investors of a property as a summary of a title’s status to ensure clear title and to validate its provenance. Most abstracts of Title make no mention that First Nations never ceded or legally signed away their lands to the Crown or to Canada. Although politicians gleefully signed off on UNDRIP, I’m sure none of them will be repatriating their own real estate to any Indigenous people soon. It might be successfully argued that all of us very entitled property owners are accessories in the acquisition of stolen property. If our greatest settlement for our shared malfeasance is giving priority to Vaccinating all 5% of B.C.’s population that identifies as Indigenous, we are getting off pretty lightly, and it doesn’t warrant this much sabre rattling. Now I will get back to my own property assessment complaint, which needs to be received before February 1.

    (Response: The vaccination rollout should be governed ENTIRELY by health considerations and science. It should have absolutely nothing to do with land claims, tax assessments, politics, race, or political pandering. The Covid virus preys on people: we have been told over and over the most vulnerable are those with maximum exposure, living in close quarters, old age, and compromised health conditions. Vaccination scheduling should reflect that … not political correctness and preferential treatment based on race. h.o)

  17. Not Sure If I'm Wasting My Time But... says:

    Harvey you said in response to David Tarris “The vaccination rollout should be governed ENTIRELY by health considerations and science.” Yet, when I presented you with information that suggested that the health of Indigenous people was not as good as the average Canadian therefore putting them at greater risk of dying or being a burden on hospitals if they were to get Covid, you wrote that off as “people apparently failing to take care of themselves.”

    Right now, I see you conflating two issues. I am a very healthy 69 year old. I am retired so I don’t have to go to work. I have a wife to keep me company. I can get my essentials from one or two stores. A quick weekly trip to the library supplies me with books. I was never much for large social gatherings anyway so walking my dog and yelling hi to neighbours keeps me happy. Where should I rank on the priority list?

    Well I rank with all of the other 65-69 year olds ahead of a whole bunch of unhealthy younger folks and people who don’t have the luxury of staying home like I can. Is that fair? Probably not but as I pointed out in my previous post, the province is not able to prioritize every single person in order of risk. So they have looked at the groups with the biggest risks like care home residents and health care workers and isolated communities etc and then looked at age as the major factor and are working their way down. It is not perfect but I am not sure what would be better.

    So why do Indigenous elders 65+ rank ahead of non Indigenous people in an older age bracket. Well we are all guessing here. Pandering? Political Correctness gone wild? RACISM!? Let’s stick with science.

    https://www.apmresearchlab.org/covid/deaths-by-race

    Yes this is from the US. But it has a much larger sample size than Canada so we can at least consider the data. Indigenous Americans are not doing well in the US with Covid. And maybe BC has data suggesting the Indigenous people are not doing well here. Who knows. But now we have two sets of data.
    1. Indigenous people on average are not as healthy or have more underlying conditions that put them at risk than non Indigenous people.
    2. Indigenous Americans are dying in greater numbers (% wise) than the average American particularly European and Asian Americans. (Europeans and Asians are the bulk of BC’s population.)

    Now you can dismiss this data as much as you want and still say it is not fair what the government is doing and that’s fine. (I would definitely be wasting my time trying to sway you.) I can’t find any data that says a 65+ Indigenous person (on average) is as great a risk as a 75+ non Indigenous person. What I am saying is the data makes it much more complicated than just screaming RACISM (which only stifles discussion).

    (Response: The studies/information you refer to is all a total red herring in this case. It includes stats that reflect the total Indigenous population of the country … thus heavily swayed by those living on reserves and other remote communities where life is indeed more difficult. As I said, I doubt most British Columbians have any problem expediting the vaccinating in those remote communities … just the NDP’s racist pandering to those 65 and over living like/with everyone else around the province and giving them special preferential treatment … literally. Our society, now under the politically correct oppression of the left is in deep trouble when EQUALITY of all in our general community (where no special circumstances isolate any group) is over-ruled by imposed racial preferential laws/rules. h.o)

  18. Daniel M says:

    I suspect the equal treatment you are looking for can be found in equality of outcome.

    Assuming it is indeed the case that the lifespan of First Nations is 15 years shorter than other Canadians ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/indigenous-people-live-15-years-less-philpott-briefing-1.4500307 ), then the cohort of First Nations population that is 65+ is roughly the same proportion of other Canadians that are 80+ within their respective populations.

    To put it another way, vaccinating only First Nations that are 80+ at the same time as other Canadians that are 80+ is to disproportionately favour non-First Nations Canadians as a percentage of all Canadians.

    Or, to put it in human terms, to ignore the disparities in life expectancies based on “race” (though it is more complicated than that due to socioeconomic factors) in vaccination scheduling would effectively deprive proportionately more First Nations children of their grandparents and great-grandparents due to Covid than other children in Canada.

    (Response: First, I did not say or suggest “vaccinating only First Nations that are 80+ at the same time as other Canadians that are 80+”. The NDP’s racist preferential treatment will kick in Feb 1 at 65 years old … even for those in perfect health, living well off reserve, with everyone else, where there are full medical services available … so they are in no danger of falling victim to the special circumstances that can prevail in isolated communities, Indigenous or otherwise. To put the Indigenous community members I refer to AHEAD of everyone else, even those 70 to 80 years old with serious life threatening pre-conditions, is just unfair and places really compromised lives at extra risk. As for the study you point to, let’s keep it real: that’s a total red herring. Those stats include and reflect the total Indigenous population of the country … thus heavily swayed by those living on reserves and other remote communities where life is indeed more difficult. As I said, I doubt most British Columbians have any problem expediting the vaccinating in those remote communities … just the NDP’s racist pandering to those 65 and over living like/with everyone else around the province and giving them special preferential treatment … literally. h.o)

  19. BMCQ says:

    AS John Horgan more or less stated during his first campaign speech while debating Andrew Wilkinson, Hey man, if you are not “Woke” and do not buy into “Wokism” you are out of touch” ! Yeah, sure Premier Horgan, funny hearing that from you as you happen to be the least “Woke” People Kind I have every seen .

    Well guess what, by his standard and the standard of MOST Liberal Left of Centre Politicians “Woke” is where it is at and absolutely nothing matters .

    (Edited..off topic)

    Actions like the ones taken by Premier Horgan have a way of gaining momentum and what I call “Creepp’ in Government Legislation, just watch .

    I try to be objective but in spite of having a wife whose father was “Metis, many life long friends are Coast Salish one of whom was in my wedding party and who is also
    health compromised I have my questions and concerns about the B.C. Horgan Government .

    Our Political Masters and much of the Elite of Canadian Society seem to bend over backwards today to look “Woke”, caring, thoughtful, and all of the other ridiculous, moronic, dishonest, virtue signaling swill rammed down our throats, lying municipal councils especially Vancouver, the Vancouver Parks Board, the Horgan Government, and our absolutely intellectually challenged and arrogant Canadian PM Justin just keep feeding the “Great Unwashed” with manipulative statements that the media do not challenge or question . Why ?

    I am quite happy to give anyone access to the “Jab” ahead of me or others if warranted and I would even wait past my allotted time if it would assist others by keeping them healthy but what Harvey describes above makes no sense .

    Having said that the reports posted by “Not Sure” should be taken into consideration, but are they factual ? Then thee is this question, do we all not have some responsibility to do what we can to avoid being in one of the vulnerable groups ? Yes of course we cannot penalize them for not looking after themselves but …………

    I feel very strongly this whole thing by the Provincial Government is much more about “Virtue Signaling” than anything and it needs to stop, Canada is broke, the Canadian economy is in clear and present danger, and Canadians are staring 100 years of Deficit and debt right in the face, think about your children and grandchildren .

    Can Canada afford any more of the virtue signaling “Wokeness”” dished out by Canadian Politicians at all three levels of government ? Ask yourself this, can YOU afford it ?

    Interestingly enough if the Canadian PM had uh done his uh job and secured enough Vaccine for Canadians from uh Coast to uh Coast, to uh Coast we might not even be having this conversation .

    Personally I use the term “White Guilt” for those that “Self Hate”, they are mostly old Hippies or those that have been indoctrinated like so many younger types today, just look to the EU and see what they have allowed to happen to their cultures that have been ravaged by lawlessness, rape, fire bombings, murders, stabbings, and drugs
    sold to the children of the EU .

    (Edited..off topic)

    Premier Horgan and other like minded politicians including the Canadian PM get their “Marching Orders” right from the Merkels, the Lofvens. and the rest of the now collapsing EU, DO YOU want that for Canada ?

    Do you want the same here ? Time to push back at Premier Horgan now before it is too late .

    BTW

    They tell you “April” is the big start date for mass vaccination, why ? Does that not seem rather odd ? When will the First Nations be getting theirs as opposed to Front Line Workers and the rest of the vulnerable ?

    April ? Hell, why not wait until October, why rush things ?

    You might think media could ask at least one or two questions about that April dae would you not ?

    Or they going to leave it up to Harvey, Vaughn Palmer, and Stephen Quinn ?

    WE all need more transparency on this and much more on the LTC situation , let us hope that the LTC report is not “White Washed”, my apologies for the white washed comment .

  20. 13 says:

    The NDP and Horgan are proving to be inept and if anyone wants to make them out to be capable of governing look at their track record of lies and deceit.
    A 400 renters grant
    A vote buying scheme . Sure its to help covid suffering. Hmm who had covid in 2019?
    An election putting the gov on fold for 5-6 weeks. If one more senior died that may have survived had our leaders been working instead of campaigning it would be one to many.
    If you believe only one senior died because the gov was closed get in line for your renters grant.
    Now the completely illogical assumption that FN people that are 65 and living in urban settings with health care facilities are at greater risk than seniors in LTC homes and seniors living on their own are at greater risk? If you buy into that bit of BS then why would you not demand all FN of any age over 18 should go to the front of the line.
    (and as HO keeps pointing out dont quote stats that include remote locations and reserves)
    This entire pandemic has served one purpose. It HIGHLIGHTS the poor treatment of seniors in Canada from coast to coast to uh coast.

    (Response: At least the NDP can hide behind their political correctness and open pandering to Indigenous communities. What’s the media’s excuse for not even questioning this clearly racist policy? Remember, this province wide rule for over 65s has nothing to do with isolated remote communities: an Indigenous 65 year old, in perfect health, educated, wealthy, fit and in perfect control of personal Covid fighting knowledge and practice will be allowed Feb 1 to go get vaccinated … just because of their race … ahead of others even in their 70s, suffering from heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc. … who have to wait until April (at least). This is crazy! Racist! And should be exposed/questioned …if the BC media had any spine left in them at all. h.o)

  21. SG says:

    Since both Horgan and Trudeau are both “woke”, I’m going to go out on a limb and ask what would happen if everyone self identified as a 65 year old indigenous person ? Even better, a 65 year old “two spirit” indigenous person….

    (Response: Even more amazing tonight … with new word of yet ANOTHER delay and reduction in delivery of vaccines …. that the media is totally ignoring this racist preferential treatment that will enable, as of Feb 1, perfectly healthy Indigenous city residents with no pre-conditions at all to get vaccinated at 65 years old … while non-Indigenous sick, much more elderly people in their 70s right up to 80 with cancer, heart disease and diabetes …will have to wait until April…or perhaps now even longer. And no one in the media (or the Opposition) even questions how this can be justified!! h.o)

  22. nonconfidencevote says:

    “At least the NDP can hide behind their political correctness and open pandering to Indigenous communities. What’s the media’s excuse for not even questioning this clearly racist policy? ”

    ++++
    Simple.
    The BC Govt is probably the biggest advertising client, by far, the local media relies on.

  23. NVG says:

    Has nothing changed in 13 years, no tough questions from the media to the politicians?

    Tip o’the Tuque to Harvey Oberfeld. by BC Mary. October 29, 2008
    http://bctrialofbasi-virk.blogspot.com/2008/10/

    No fake sympathy! No “Yeah buts …” No excuses! Harvey — by reminding his colleagues of the job we expect them to do — is showing us professional integrity, ethics, courage, and yes, love for British Columbia.
    ************
    By David Beers The Tyee

    Harvey Oberfeld is becoming the scourge of his former colleagues in television news, via the blog he launched a few months back. The latest target of his outrage: Global TV, his former employer, which comes in for a whacking because it paid $5,000 to the Vancouver police charity in order to secure an interview with rescued kidnap victim Graham McMynn.
    *************
    “It is my own sad view that the news standards at Global TV (and some other current major media as well) are not what they used to be. But payment for an interview surprised even me! I hope other news stations do not follow Global’s precedent. I hear CTV was approached but refused to pay. I applaud that decision,” blogs the award-winning, 38-year veteran political news reporter, now retired.
    *************

    Harvey, based on what you wrote back in 2008, do you believe that today’s Press are not asking the tough questions because money, or favours, are involved?

    (Response: BC misses BC Mary. We didn’t always agree (imagine that!) but I really enjoyed her active participation in BC issues/discussions …especially BC Rail. As for the media, I take no joy in saying this, but I think it’s worse than before At least there used to be a FEW who understood the media’s full role and really held governments’ feet to the fire, pushing for full real answers, not just any quote and would seek, pursue and demand an explanation for something like the outrageous issue I have canvassed in this latest blog, even if it made them VERY unpopular with those they covered. But, instead they keep repeating the NDP mantra that AGE will trump everything else in vaccine scheduling … when clearly it does NOT!!! And if the public learned about the glaring exception being made… on racial grounds, they’d be outraged … yet the media is ignoring (hiding?) it. As I noted in my recent blog on the media, it is now so unusual to see a BC reporter really press a politician that it warranted a full column by Vaughn Palmer of The Vancouver Sun! The problems go beyond just political reporting …to reporting in general: and, it’s not money, or favours: Some of them are just lousy inexperienced reporters, incapable of doing much more than cover fires or accidents or lost puppies and charity drives; others, it’s a loss of understanding of the REAL role of the press; too much coziness with those they cover; plain laziness; and allowed to get away with it by “bosses” who are no longer bosses. There are also really good reporters and managers who have been pushed aside/ignored by incompetent bosses. And the NDP government is controlling/playing the BC media like a fiddle … actually, an entire orchestra …limiting questioning, controlling who gets to ask them and using up lots of time responding, but not really answering, much of what is posed to them. Watch carefully. It’s all very sad…but I still live in eternal hope of a regeneration of real journalism among BC media. h.o)

  24. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey, in your response to SG you refer to Indigenous people who are healthy, etc receiving the vaccine prior to others. Yes, the reason why will be that it is not whether they are health now, but how COVID affects Indigenous People, once they catch the disease.

    It maybe fun for some to take a wack at the provincial government about this, but has any one had a look at the science of people who are Indigenous when they catch COVID compared to those who catch it who are of other origins? As I’ve mentioned previously, small pox and Indigenous People. Small pox had a much more devastating effect on Indigenous People than it did on Europeans. If COVID does the same thing, we could effectively eliminate most Indigenous People or is that the goal of some who complain about Indigenous People receiving the vaccine first? Its not like our society in general has been all that concerned about the health and welfare of Indigenous People in my life time. WE have only to look at how some hospital staff were making a game out of were Indigenous patients drunk and if so what was their level of impairment. It wasn’t just one hospital. Perhaps Indigenous People need to be vaccinated is because if they become ill with COVID they may not receive the same treatment as non Indigenous People.

    It maybe the government is vaccinating Indigenous people against COVID because they know they won’t get the same level of care as non Indigenous People.

    (Response: Ridiculous! Not even the government’s spin experts have tried to argue that! Make those who are older, up to 80 in fact, and most vulnerable (with serious heart disease, diabetes, cancer, kidney, lung problems)) wait for months more until April at the earliest, so younger healthy people can get vaccinated in February??? Surely you jest! WHY does the government, Dr Henry and all their media mouthpieces keep saying IT’S ALL ABOUT AGE?? Are you calling your friends in the NDP liars? h.o)

  25. Not Sure says:

    And at the risk of being ridiculed.

    I don’t have a bio-ethics degree so what do I know? I figured I had said my piece using as much fact based evidence as I could to make a case for the decision being made. Apparently those are just red herrings, even the one that showed that indigenous people OFF RESERVE have more underlying health issues than non-indigenous people which was just written off as “people apparently failing to take care of themselves”.

    And I am not alone. I am writing again because of your dismissal of others as well as myself.

    Let’s be clear once again. We are all just spitballing. We don’t know the whole story. We know the situation but we are just guessing at the motivation. But one argument you have consistently used is not completely accurate.

    This is your argument. Why should healthy 65+ year old Indigenous people be vaccinated ahead of unhealthy 75+ non-Indigenous people. Good point.
    But the same applies here. Why should healthy 69 year olds like myself be vaccinated ahead of unhealthy/more vulnerable much younger people than I am.

    And the answer is we are not being vaccinated completely by age. We are being vaccinated by group vulnerability in phase one and two and then by age (the most significant factor) in phase three and four. It is not perfect but it is probably the best we can do.

    Again, just spitballing. 13 asked a good question. Why if the health of indigenous people is not as good as non-indigenous people are they only giving priority to 65+? Why not give priority to all Indigenous people? Well I am just guessing here but the younger you are the less vulnerable you are and the less likely you are to die or take up hospital space. Maybe the health authorities have determined that the risk to 65+ Indigenous people (of death and hospitalization) is enough to warrant that priority.

    I am not saying that my view is correct. None of us can make that claim. We are all just wondering out loud. That is what is fun and frustrating about your blog. And I am not suggesting that we have to come to some agreement or compromise. But it would sure be nice if we could at least come to some understanding of each other’s point of view.

    (Response: You’re correct: we don’t know. But it sure looks racist to me when ANY group is singled out just by virtue of their race …no other factor …for “special treatment” or rules. It’s ugly … and the only thing uglier is that the BC media haven’t even raised/questioned it. Very scary! It should be questioned ..and if the NDP and Dr Henry can’t give solid answers, supported by STATISTICS/SCIENCE for Indigenous Canadians living OFF RESERVE (not in remote isolated communities) … they should be challenged on this. That’s the way journalism worked in the good old days, when hundreds of thousands more people used to buy daily newspapers, and watch TV News. h.o)

  26. 13 says:

    @eaf. I am so very very very glad that I dont live with guilt that you do. Mind you I have recently retired and will have time to reflect on how little the NDP and Federal Liberals have done for me. Time to reflect on the endless government money spent trying to fix homelessness , drug addiction, poor conditions for many FN peoples, covid vaccines, and the myriad of problems that governments spend tax dollars and get few if any results.
    Mind you I have worked private sector jobs for 46 years so any pensions I get beyond my OAP ( which has been clawed back) are of my OWN making. We just managed to pay off our home by selling in Coq and buying in Chilliwack.
    I guess where Im going with this is I cant afford to pay the taxes that someone who is riddled with guilt might want to pay. Ive been told that I can not take the covid vaccines due to my health but I would not try to rationalize why a healthy FN person living in Chilliwack (and there are many in this community) should receive the covid vaccine before the NDPs age related guidelines. The same FN peoples that likely get their prescription meds paid for while many many seniors have to either just do without or play games with the dosage to try and stretch their dollars. Just like Horgan and the vaccine but because they cant afford the drugs. Horgan just placed his trust in an idiot PM that has bungled the entire covid pandemic from the start.
    Now hes buying votes again with the vaccine

  27. G. Barry Stewart says:

    It would be good to know what Harvey and others consider as “remote.”

    In my mind, that would be up the coast and only accessible by float plane or boat — or an hour or two into the bush on a sketchy road.

    Some here will be shocked to know that the first round of vaccines have been administered to First Nations of age 40 and up (maybe lower) in the Hope area. Rural, but not remote. It may have happened elsewhere, but I’m only sure of the Hope reality.

    And I’m fine with that. Without knowing the back story, I’ll assume that the PHO predicted an opening of availability of Pfizer and Modern and included even the younger First Nations in the first phase. (But yes: it would be good to know the actual thinking on the part of the PHO.)

    Then the stall in the supply chain hit and things had to be adjusted.

    The allowance, in Phase 2, for even healthy 65-year-old First Nations to get a vaccine is actually a claw-back of what was offered in Hope, and likely other regions.

    (Response: I personally have no problem with letting Dr Henry determine who qualifies for advanced vaccination based on any special geographic or community living situation. It involves more than just the terms remote and isolated, where there is little health support available and also people living in closer quarters than normal, where the virus could spread very rapidly. So a reserve, even near an urban area, could qualify. My problem is separating out people based on their race, living in the general community … to either GIVE them the vaccine at 65 because they’re Indigenous or DENY them the vaccine because they are white, black or Asian, even though they’re the same age. That just stinks to me. h.o)

  28. The Baker says:

    HO…
    “But it sure looks racist to me when ANY group is singled out just by virtue of their race …no other factor …for “special treatment” or rules.”

    Really?
    Is there any chance these people are given some degree of priority because they are simply more at risk or vulnerable? And that they just happen to be First Nations? Are you even open minded enough to consider that?

    That they are First Nations, should not be part of the biased (racist?) dialogue here.

    Take away the word indigenous and in it’s place put pregnant women or some other segment, gays maybe, or journalists. What would be the mantra then, if that group was more vulnerable and in a position to put that community at risk and add an undue strain on the healthcare system and facilities?

    Ok, I know the answer; “Ridiculous! Biased, dug in NDP supporter.”
    Don’t bother.

    And how was an entire rant-post about Ms Turpel-Lafond and blood alcohol, even remotely close to topic?

    Yes, Not sure, you are wasting your time.

    (Response: First, you are correct about the post regarding Ms. Turpel Lafond: I thought he was responding to something someone else had said earlier but I had missed… but I was incorrect, it was totally off topic, so have trashed it. As for your First Nations references … the Order covers First Nations, Inuit and Metis and I am unaware of any scientific, clinical or gerontological studies/findings that conclude “they are simply more at risk or vulnerable” living in the general community, off reserve and not in an isolated or remote community. Are you? But it is such a glaringly racist act to single them out for special treatment perhaps Dr Henry could/should have explained why it was included and why they were pushed ahead of so many others! And it’s especially disappointing, although frankly not surprising, that the current BC media lack the spine to do their jobs and ask about it. h.o.)

  29. 13 says:

    @ GBS, Thanks for pointing out the vaccine distribution in Hope. Now without any media interest in the bungling Henry distribution plan we (I) am left to speculate as to why FN peoples in Hope are vaccinated while the good people of Chilliwack ( 30 minutes away from Hope) are left in the vaccine vacuum.
    The could very well be a good reason for this distribution of the vaccine. But without a media to pursue truth and answers ……. maybe we could get Harvey to go for a drive.?

    (Response: I blew my January budget phoning Victoria TWICE trying to to get the NDP government’s “Communications” (LOL!) people to explain their racist rules … to no avail, of course … no election in the offing, so no one responded. h.o)

  30. NVG says:

    H.O. “I am unaware of any scientific, clinical or gerontological studies/findings that conclude “they are simply more at risk or vulnerable” living in the general community”

    Go grab yourself a bite to eat, settle yourself into a comfortable armchair, and start reading: ‘the impact of the white man / by Wilson Duff. 1964’

    Its on my blog, with pictures too.

    “The most terrible single calamity to befall the Indians of British Columbia was the smallpox epidemic which started in Victoria in 1862. Unique circumstances caused it to spread faster and farther than any previous outbreak could possibly have done, and within two years it had reached practically all parts of the Province, and killed about one-third of the native people.

    “Smallpox was not the only disease that cut deeply into the Indian population. Epidemics of measles, influenza, tuberculosis, and others also took their heavy tolls.”

    (Response: Spin! Spin! Spin! A total red herring … trying to justify racist rules in 2021 by referring to something that happened and many believe was deliberately done in 1862. You can’t really believe there’s a clinical/scientific connection! Trolling again? h.o)

  31. Not Sure says:

    I would also like to thank GBS but for a different reason than 13.

    There are small hospitals right across the north from Prince Rupert to Fort St. John, but only three – Terrace, Prince George and Fort St John – were fully set-up in preparation for covid. I have full confidence in the people who staff the hospital in my town, but we don’t have the same number of ventilators etc that the other three have. Prince Rupert, Smithers, Dawson Creek, Quesnel, etc are not considered remote but once we reach our hospital limit, patients will be sent elsewhere, many kilometres elsewhere. We are treated the same as if we were living down in the Lower Mainland with all the large modern hospitals within a few miles of each other.

    Our town has just experienced an outbreak at our care home. Several patients and staff. We have enough difficulty filling positions at the best of times. Where are we going to get sufficient replacement staff with 10+ quarantining for 14 days?

    Harvey, several times you have mentioned off reserve Indigenous people living in urban settings as if that solved everything, as if all urban settings are the same. They are not. Not completely on topic, but we do have a tendency to see things through a lens of our own choosing or experience.

    I went to the twitter page of the health ministry and a couple of journalists and read responses to the rollout plan. I didn’t see anybody question the priority given to Indigenous people over 65. But I did see lots of questions about why teachers or dentists or fire fighters or grocery clerks are not higher up.

    All of those are good questions. But they are impossible to answer. We cannot vaccinate 4 million people at the same time. Decisions – tough decisions – have to made. I am having a hard time imagining Dr. Henry changing her rollout plan because Horgan wants to pander to a base 45 months before an election.

    I know you want to find an answer to the question and nobody is stopping you, but I am wondering how willing people will be in accepting whatever answer they hear (spin spin spin you’re trolling) if they have already prejudged it as racist, a word that so far has been used 26 times.

    I don’t think we can ignore the historical/socio-economic points raised by nvg and a couple of others. Had all Indigenous people been given priority, that may have raised eyebrows. But they have decided that priority should be given to one small segment of one small group, a small segment that is the last generation of residential school (at best the children of residential school) survivors, people who did not get the best of starts that quite likely affects their education, health etc etc today.

    Different lens, Harvey.

    (Response: You note on the GOVERNMENT and “a couple of journalists” Twitter sites and “didn’t see anybody question the priority given to Indigenous people over 65”. Not surprising …since neither the government nor the complacent, compliant BC media have announced/explained/covered the issue .. just like in many other states throughout history where racist laws and rules were implemented. Glad to be the one to call them out on it … and support the equality of all living in the same communities. h.o)

  32. NVG says:

    I’m just pointing out to you Harvey that the First Nation People have a right to be concerned about Covid-19 after losing 1/3rd of their population to smallpox.
    ————
    Your ‘Spin! Spin! Spin!’ seems to be your knee-jerk reaction to truth, and then for good measure you accuse the writer of ‘trolling”.
    ——————
    I take it that you haven’t read my blog post on:
    “The Indian history of British Columbia, volume 1 : the impact of the white man / by Wilson Duff. —

    (Response: So then Jewish people should also go ahead of the line… having lost six million at the hands of white men just a few decades ago? (By the way, today is International Holocaust Remembrance Day … let us all remember and reflect.) Maybe Cambodians, Somalians, Uighurs, Bosnians who have suffered genocidal attacks should get priority too? Some of them can actually personally remember their suffering and loss of immediate family. h.o)

  33. BMCQ says:

    Baker

    My so called rant regarding METL was a DIRECT response to a no doubt innocent but non the less falsehood put up regarding “Bets on Street People’s Alcohol Content” by e.a.f. and I felt compelled to ensure we all were aware of the truth . I have family and a friend that work out of the St. Pauls ER and to think they were doing something as despicable as that is unacceptable, would you want a friend or loved one besmirched by a falsehood ? I think not . . My apologies if that makes you feel better .
    IMHO I was NOT off topic .

    Thank you for the consideration with this .

    This attached is just one sample of what some of you here might be talking about . I read with interest what others have posted up the page and I must admit I am evolving somewhat on this issue, but can we be sure the actions taken ae not just political spin to score points with a base of any given party .

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/investigations-discovery/hospitalization-death-by-race-ethnicity.html

    (Edited…off topic.)

    I may be mistaken but I for one question the claim by CDC that Asian People are more susceptible to C – 19 than so called White-Non Hispanic people, to me it seems that many countries populations in Asia have done better than many in other world nations .

    (Response: According to the report you cite, the death rate is highest among blacks and Hispanics, not Indigenous populations …so if the NDP wants to go by racial stats, instead of just age, Indigenous should be moved down the list to behind black and Hispanic British Columbians. Good luck with that!! LOL! Plus, notice also the report you cite specifically takes into account “socioeconomic status, access to health care, and exposure to the virus related to occupation” … and that’s NOT applicable to the NDP policy, which solely applies to race. Period. Not related/restricted to those factors …just race! Which I think is terrible, inexcusable. h.o)

  34. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, here is a little side note for those who think the White man infected the natives with small pox on purpose in 1862. The germ theory was just taking shape in 1880’s and 90’s and proven by Louis Pasteur in his experiments. I doubt anybody coming here in the mid 1800’s would have any clue about it, so much more likely a tragedy that happened by accident, rather than a covert act.

    (Response: I don’t want to maneuvered off topic (that’s what the trolls would like) but I do know there have been accusations that BC First Nations were purposely given blankets with smallpox to wreak havoc in their community. If true, certainly deserving to be condemned … but absolutely no reason to justify the BC NDP government discriminating against others with racist rules in 2021. h.o)

  35. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey the spin doctors would never admit such things. They’re spin doctors, they don’t want the voters to be come upset about being considered racists because we as Canadian generally like to think of ourselves as not being racist.

    Just have a read again of my comments regarding the “game” played in some E.R.s by staff. Was just reading an article out of Manitoba, Indigenous woman breaks leg, goes to local health center told its a sprain, go home. Husband drives 300 miles south to a hospital where she is X rayed, leg broken in two places flown to Winnipeg for surgery. Some people know even the health care system has systemic racism in it, its just no one is going to talk about it.

    From time to time I follow the APTN network. You’d think they were reporting on another country, not some thing in Canada. We all have prejudices and we aren’t able to leave them at the door when we go to work.

    (Response: I’m thinking more and more it’s all about votes … pushed by (as ELLE noted) the FEDERAL LIBERALS, pandering to Indigenous groups before the upcoming federal election. And the Horgan/NDP government in BC are going along …for their own political pandering and to try to sweeten up Trudeau/Liberals in Ottawa to show thanks to BC. This is all turning out to be a potentially GREAT story …if only the BC media weren’t waiting for a Press Release to point it out! h.o)

  36. e.a.f. says:

    Not Sure If…..: thank you for your comments. Agree totally. Our circumstances are similar, however I don’t go to the library, I can read on line. No spousal unit, but I’m good on my own. So are many of our age group.

    Indigenous People are frequently not as healthy as non Indigenous People. It starts with a lack of pre natal care, diet as children, diet as adults. the fact that diabeties is a huge killer within the Indigenous community, that the most urban Indigenous do not eat a “traditional diet” or for that matter, rural Indigenous. What we do know is Indigenous People who have a traditional diet do better, are healthier, even do better when they have cancer–better chance of survival.

    Some ethnic groups simply have diseases others don’t. Like those of Irish descent, the Irish disease–Celiac disease. those of Irish descent may also have an iron problem. African Americans have sickle cell,

    Askenazi Jews have more than a few health problems, given they are descended from a very small group of people. one out of ten carry the Caucher disease mutated gene.
    One in 100 are carriers of Bloom Sydrome
    one in four carry the gene for Tay-Sachs disease.

    Being Askenazi Jewish is not all its cracked up to be. You have health problems. Its in your genes and that is where the problems lie for many Indigenous People.
    So perhaps Askenazi Jews should receive vaccine shots in priority to others along with the Indigenous People. It may be why Israel was so fast at getting their vaccine’s out.

    (Response: So where does it stop? Separating and cataloging and treating people based on race and genetics is very dangerous. I find it quite repugnant! A better idea … why not vaccinate people by age AND health conditions??? Let those with serious ailments (cancer, heart disease, diabetes, blood pressure, liver, kidney) ALL go to the head of the line? Very easy to determine, based on prescription history/Pharmacare record. That we, we would be protecting first those who need it most … without placing one RACE ahead of the rest!! h.o)

  37. e.a.f. says:

    Oh, 13, if there is one thing I don’t feel is guilt about anything I am or what I’ve done and yes not all of it was nice. I am willing to pay higher taxes because taxes buy us a civilized society, as the American Justice said. When we compare what some Europeans pay in Taxes and what we pay, there is a huge difference. I’ve always believed society had an obligation to take care of others who were in need. Mostly because I saw kids who didn’t have much and life was terrible for them, while we in our family were living a nice life and others in the community were doing even better than us. It didn’t make sense that others were doing so poorly and that the kids suffered. Didn’t make sense to me in grade 4, 6 or at 71.

    You may feel the NDP and Federal Liberals have done little for you, but I feel differently and trust me I never voted federal Liberal in my life. However, I do remember when the Federal Liberals created a national health care system. Prior to that if your Dad lost his job, there went the family health care plan. Oh, I’m thankful for that National Health care plan as much as I may bitch about need for improvements. Lester Pearson, a Liberal P.M. in 1965 created CPP. It needs improvement but we still have it and its better than nothing. Its not like any other federal government provided us with services like that. Trudeau Sr. created Plan 71 a new system for U.I./now E.I. It changed how unemployed people lived in this country. It made life easier for a lot of people.

    The NDP in B.C. well they created ICBC, which some love to hate, but hey, I love it. I remember times before ICBC. Barrett gave us the ALR. Now that was environmentalism way before it was popular. Sask. was the first province to have medical care thanks to the NDP.

    You can complain all you want and I’m sure you will be. do have a good time doing it. I’ve always looked at the glass half full thing. I’ve seen our family had a good life given we arrived in 1951, me, my parents with $100.

    People like to complain on blogs, etc. but what have you done to make things better in your community, you own life.

    I guess we were lucky. Our Mother told us, in the late 60s if you were female and wanted to get ahead, make sure you worked for a government or a large corporation which was unionized. We all followed her advise. We did well. We are all pretty lucky to be living in Canada.

  38. 13 says:

    At some point reconciliation must include equality. Some FN peoples are not malnourished, under employed , over incarcerated, drug addicted, etc.etc. etc. Some are prosperous and with all of the perks of having status they are ahead of many other Canadians.
    Another equalizer should be access to health care. Remote locations be they FN or any race should and have been looked after with covid vaccine. (except for Trudeaus blunder). Equality can not include events that transpired hundreds of years ago. If they do then then how can we ever achieve a country based on equality. . .
    Next thing will be a study where blue eyed people have more rights than brown eyed.
    These arguments are ridiculous and seem to want to perpetuate a multi tiered society where equality cant exist. So much for tip toeing in the mine field

  39. 13 says:

    @eaf, I read your response re guilt. I dont feel any guilt and I pay enough tax to alleviate some of your guilt. None of this changes the fact that Horgan is using race as means to an end. Zippo to do with 1862

  40. e.a.f. says:

    Hi 13, “equity can not include events that transpired hundreds of years ago.” why not, if justice has not been served. We are seeing countries returning artifacts stolen from other countries 200 years ago, when it comes to art and such.

    So following your logic the Germans would never have had to pay war reparations. Most people think Germany isn’t paying them any more, but yes, they are. they recently allocated another large sum to people who worked in slave labour camps–approx. some where over a $100M. If the people are dead, their estates can qualify. Korea is still trying to get the Japanese to “settle up” over the use of Korean women as sex trade workers during WW II for Japanese soldiers. it is never too late to do the right thing. the Armenians are still a tad put out about the holocaust they endured.

    Equality isn’t necessarily equitable treatment. So yes there might have to be “multi tiered” provisions in our societies to achieve equality. If you consider equality equal treatment for everyone now, regardless of the past then I would suggest if some one caused a death 10 years go, got away with it, they don’t have to pay for their mistakes now. as the saying goes, the rich and the poor are both free to sleep under bridges. That is equality as I read your comments, but it isn’t equity. Equal treatment can be so unequitable. that is why we’ve had changes in how side walks are built, you know so people in wheel chairs can use them.

    You’re correct at some point reconciliation must include equality, but until Indigenous people are treated equitably we as a society are not providing justice for the wrongs committed in the past, being committed today or will be in the future.

    Now as to your other comment regarding people with status being “way ahead” of other Canadians, please give me a break and provide me the statistics on that one will you. How many on a prorated basis are there Indigenous billionaires in Canada, multi millionaires, plain old millionaires, etc. Yes, there are some very successful and wealth Indigenous people in Canada but they are few and far between. If its so great why aren’t more people clammering to achieve status and going to live on Reserves in Canada? Living conditions aren’t great on reserves so at least having the COVID shots faster, people will have a better chance of surviving this pandemic.

    Harvey as to your question of why one race over another, well its easier and as you say it may have something to do with votes, however, I still stand by what I’ve written. I’m good with Indigenous People being at the front of the line. They were here first and historically been treated last. My take on it is, the injustices can never be compensated for, just like those who died in the concentration camps can not be compensated for. Money is how today’s society “justify/make whole” the offended. When our Mother received her war reparations cash from the German government, she donated it to a Jewish organization in Holland, where she felt it might do some good. She didn’t want the money because money can’t ever undo the problems the concentration camps created. After the death of the male parental unit, I found the documents for reparations also, but I tossed them in the garbage. In my opinion, Germany had done enough. they took in a million refugees. Cash can not atone for all sins, sometime times it has to be actions.

    Some one earlier commented Hope wasn’t that remote. It all depends upon your income and living standard. Hope doesn’t have a big hospital. No specialists, etc. If you are really ill or have something serious you need to go to Abbotsford. If you live in Chilliwack and you have cancer, you have to go to the hospital in Abbotsford for treatment and doctors. If you don’t have a car it a tad difficult. I’m not aware of bus service from Abbotsford to rural Hope and again that costs money

    In my early 20s I made the comment, “that is not fair”. An older mentor responded, who promised you justice.

    The various governments are doing their best, well except perhaps for Alberta. I’ve watched all the provinces do their thing on t.v. from time to time, and they’re working on it. Now of course politics comes into it at some level from time to time, but really I don’t see any one else doing any better. Some may not like how Trudeau is handling this, but would the Conservatives have done any better??? Would the B.C. Lieberals have done any better??? The Premier of Manitoba has tried something new. It may cost him politically, time will tell.

    If the citizens of our province and country at large had followed the advise of the medical people from the get go and stayed home, we might not be in the place we are today. the governments are playing catch up now because people didn’t follow the rules/suggestions a year ago. of course we are doing better than the Netherlands where they are having riots by the anti maskers and the police have arrested 184.

    I don’t think those of us who disagree are going to agree , perhaps…..until Harvey has his next topic up.

    (Response: Already have a topic I’m leaning towards for next week: but I sure hope we won’t all agree! That’s no fun. 🙂 h.o)

  41. 13 says:

    @eaf, Your willingness to pay more tax is okay with me. I did a bit of research and the Canadian government has a system where you can give them money. Unfortunately the BC government will only accept money from their own public sector workers. But the good news is the BC Gov will accept donations from retired gov workers. This way you can help out to your hearts content without punishing the millions that can afford your largess. PCECF is the programs name.

  42. Not Sure says:

    For e.a.f. and 13 and others if they are interested. Fair isn’t equal.

    https://medium.com/@CRA1G/the-evolution-of-an-accidental-meme-ddc4e139e0e4

    The article tells the story behind the meme but the graphic is the point. It seems to encapsulate some of the disagreement about this topic.

    To BMCQ, thank you for saying this: “I must admit I am evolving somewhat on this issue”

    I am not exactly sure what you meant but if all you meant is this “I don’t necessarily agree with the policy but I can understand why some people would” then that is good enough for me. We don’t have to agree but acknowledging somebody’s opinion as valid (because we all see things through a different lens) keeps conversation going.

    Harvey, as much as I disagree with you on this topic, I have to at least thank you. I have become more knowledgeable and more convinced about the validity of my point of view by researching the topics covered. I do understand your view on fairness. We can agree to disagree there. What bothers me most is your assumptions about motive. We all see things differently, but whenever I am not sure about something like this topic I use occam’s razor: The simplest explanation is usually the right one.

    A. Indigenous people over 65 were given priority because public health experts under Bonnie Henry decided that those people were at greater risk.

    or and I quote

    B. “it’s all about votes … pushed by the FEDERAL LIBERALS, pandering to Indigenous groups before the upcoming federal election. And the Horgan/NDP government in BC are going along …for their own political pandering and to try to sweeten up Trudeau/Liberals in Ottawa to show thanks to BC.

    I am not denying the possibility of B, but I am going to select A as the more likely.

  43. e.a.f. says:

    #13, its funny you should mention taxes. We all know here I don’t mind paying more taxes to deal with social issues and other things. Am currently reading a book, “British Columbia in Flames” about the 2017 Forest fires. There is a line in there about taxes. A rancher says he got back all the taxes he had paid because the B.C. Forest Service came and dropped 3 plane tanker loads of fire retardant on his ranch, thus saving it. He found out when the Forest Service does that, its $10K a tanker. That is why we pay taxes. Its why I don’t mind. I know we’re talking the vaccine/First Nations/priorities, but usually we wind up discussing taxes along the way. It all costs money and it has to come from some where/one. All those things we take for granted, usually are paid for by taxes. The provincial government had budgeted $63M for forest fire fighting and by 4 Aug. 2017 had spent 204M, over 3 years of budget.

    When we want vaccines is now and that costs money. Do you want to pay more taxes to ensure you get what you want, when you want? Most likely not. Had this country spent the money required to keep seniors in care safe with better conditions and better trained staff and not turned it into a for profit sector, we might not be having the problems we are today. Its where people are dying hand over fist. If a government comes up with a plan which will increase taxes by perhaps $400 a year for every one, you’d hear the howls all over that province.

    Had the country invested more in medical research we might have had our own vaccine and not had to rely on Europe. We didn’t want to spend the money back then and now its too late. They are re-tooling the factory in Europe, so they say, but in my opinion the real issue is Pziser wants a tax break in the upcoming federal budget. (they requested one from Trudeau in discussions) I wonder why we are short of vaccines and not getting what we were supposed to. We hear all the responses but that little item about pziser wanting tax breaks in the upcoming federal budget in my opinion is most likely why Canada has been shorted on vaccines along with a lot of other countries.

    A pandemic was not unexpected. there were scientists 10 years ago talking about one in the future. what did most of the world do? ignored it. I’m sure some companies paid attention and had some research going, but individual governments, most likely not so much. They don’t want to upset the tax paying voters. There was an interesting interview with researches working in Africa, discussing future pandemics. Their opinion, we will have more as we de forest Africa, as rich people want bush meat, eating what we ought not to eat. We’ve seen Ebola, but it was contained mostly to Africa. Now do you want vaccines for the next pandemic? If you do, you might have to be willing to pay more taxes for more research in government/university labs instead of leaving it to corporations such as Pziser who can hold a country hostage.

  44. 13 says:

    A fiscally prudent well run government that doesnt cater to every lost cause might be able to work with the already onerous tax burden that most people endure.

    (Edited… this has gotten WAY off topic. Back to the subject of the blog please h.o.)

    Sorry Harvey but when it comes to gov waste the media also dont give a damn.

  45. e.a.f. says:

    Hi BMCQ, regarding your response to Baker regarding my comments about racism in our hospitals. You opined that these could be false. No they are not and they aren’t a mistake. Its one of the reasons I commented earlier I suspect that may be one of the reasons the provincial government has decided to vaccinate Indigenous People amongst the first. they go to hospital and may be ignored or having a high fever and a little out of it, be considered drunk.

    Global reported on this item 19 June 2020, you’ll note Dix in a press conference.

    C.B.C. reported a Vancouver Island hospital was involved in this and it was suggested that hospital was the Sannich Peninsula Hospital.

    National Post reported on it as did a number of other smaller papers.

    Now it may not be going on at St. Paul’s because it is not mentioned at all in any of the articles. But there are hospital staff which engage in these types of practices.

    If you “google” in B.C. hospital staff betting on Indigenous patients level of drunkenness you will find a whole page of articles. that is how I found the 3 above mentioned articles. However, I’ve always knows health care every where depends upon who you are and how much money you have. How do I know, I was the beneficiary of it. There have been stories going back to the 1960s when the well connected got preferiental treatment at hospitals. Do you really believe that when a very rich well known person comes to hospital they don’t get a tad better treatment? Do you think a street person with mental health issues gets the same treatment as your middle class woman from a “good address”. (oh I know this one really well because an occupational therapist thought I was a recovering addict who had lived on the street for years. Never been spoken to like that) It was fun when I started responding to her attitude and she was all bent out of shape because I challenged her and then she questioned how I knew specific things and services. Its such a shock when they find out you own a house. You can see it on their faces, you own a house?
    So that gets me back to Indigenous People and the need for a first crack at the vaccine. Many will not receive the care they need because of prejudice or remoteness. I also am of the opinion people who are raised on good food, have good health care and live in nice houses do better when they become very ill. There is also the genetic thing at play, as I’ve written above.
    OMG, I think I’ve broken BMCQ’s record for writing, but I just can’t help it.

    (Response: The way to END the ugliness of discrimination is to treat all peoples equally. It’s sure not going to help when people realize in Feb that ALL Indigenous people 65 and over, even living off reserve in our cities and towns etc and without any medical pre-conditions will get preferential treatment/vaccination ahead of every other racial group of older, seriously medically compromised people, right up to 80 years old! The NDP keep saying their schedule for vaccinating is based on age…but they are clearly lying. h.o)

  46. BMCQ says:

    e.a.f. –
    Was it you that said “Please do not confuse me with facts I have already made up my mind” ?

    I once again find myself stating the following, ” YOU are entitled to YOUR own set of facts but YOU are not entitled to YOUR Own set of facts” !!

    The whole “Betting on Alcohol Blood Levels in Indigenous People in ER Wards was absolutely “Debunked by METL herself, period .

    I am not referring to any other content put forward for APTN attached her but I am referring to the claims you continually falsely make regarding the above subject . YOU need to accept the facts, NO more spin .

    https://www.aptnnews.ca/national-news/racism-b-c-healthcare/

    Yes, I get it, in your mind “White Men Bad, Orange Man Bad”, facts DO matter .

    As mentioned previously Harvey makes some very good points and I tend to agree with his points of “Special Deals for Special People” even though there has been some evidence of the concerns of Indigenous People and their vulnerability to C – 19, but it also appears that many others as in the CDC Report posted by BMCQ can be singled out, as Harvey says, “What about them” ? Where does it end ?

    I know one thing for sure if PC SJW, the B.C. Government and other special interests have their way the roll-out and eventual two vaccinations will in deed involve more “Special People” will be looked after first . Harvey uses the term “Racism”, I use the term “Reverse Discrimination” and that causes me great concern .

    “White Guilt” whether it be in Canada, the USA, or say most EU Nations is creating a Class/Cast System and White Males are being harmed greatly .

    In spite of the fact that I am (probably waffling) unsure of my feelings on this I tend to agree with Harvey, the “Jab” should be carried out with the following criteria, age, physical condition, and those with conditions that make them vulnerable, I believe we
    need to keep race out of this . Again, I am struggling with this greatly and may change my mind somewhat as time goes on here .

    It seems to me that Premier Horgan, Top Mensa Member and Canadian PM Justin do almost everything through the eyes of “Pandering to their Base” or pandering to those that they feel may offer support to their government in the next election . Yes, I suppose that might be said of B.C. Liberals and the Federal Conservative but Horgan and PM Justin just seem so dishonest and manipulative it makes me very concerned .

    Hopefully this can be addressed sooner than later and the “Great Unwashed” do not feel taken advantage of by politicians who are thinking about re election first . Despicable .

    Not to worry though, PM Justin has stated that no matter how badly he and his government have handled the VAX File, “Canadians who want it will uh be getting the
    vaccine by September” .

    Was that September 2021 or was it 2022 ? You tell me .

    Hey wait a minute, I know how we can fix this, PM Justin can use his former Hand Picked Canadian Governor General Julie Payette to take over the Distribution and Vaccination of Canadians from Coast to coast, to uh Coast, that will work for sure .

    BTW – those who were showing their juvenile “Canadian Superiority” by claiming the USA was doing a poor job with their Vax Roll Out over December and January should know and understand that the USA is vaccination five times more patients per capita than Canada . Canada is indeed about number 70 in the world in successful Vax injections .

    Over all even thee are some disagreements I feel very good about this blog post topic, some really good debate here, well done Harvey .

    DBW – the blog is a better place when you are part of the mix, do not spoil things for
    yourself or the rest of us, we need your input . Hey, one never knows one day
    you and I might agree on something . Come on, fact check me !

  47. 13 says:

    Harveys response to eafs comment on BMCQs comment to Baker.
    Harvey s made perfect sense. Eaf uses a rave bait argument to perpetuate inequality. Ive been in a lot of hospitals of late VGH, Abbotsford ,Chilliwack, and have never been questioned on my home ownership. While sitting in the social distance waiting rooms Ive not seen anyone treated any differently because of race or style of dress. I havent seen any race based treatment for anyone . That little bit of NDP sponsered racism is scheduled to start in a couple of days. Horgan and his NDP will go back to the 60s on Feb 1st . It appears the NDP refuse to move out of the 60s as well

  48. Mr. Baker says:

    This topic has been an interesting study. It’s actually very much like the US. Split pretty close to 50/50. Those following the pot stirrer, 8 and the ones branded trolls, 7. Interestingly there are 4 who could be considered neutral.

    A thread like this which runs longer than most at the current 47, provides a lot of insight.

    Looking back, it becomes fairly clear which posters embrace conspiracies counter to actually thinking and then addressing counter points in derogatory terms. The conspiracies change but less so the people.

    (Response: Interesting analysis. I know people seldom change their opinions/stands in our discussions … but hopefully everyone gets to understand and appreciate others’ points of view. And I’m always happy to expose government hypocrisy, racial divisiveness and patronizing pandering to various groups … while preaching the virtues of equality. Too bad they don’t realize … or don’t care …about the harm they do to our societal relations in general in their rush to score political points and support. h.o)

  49. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    i have really enjoyed the discussion and responses to all . the usual suspects didn’t let me down . lisa had her covid shot in her nursing home.

    had a social distance coffee with a native elder i know he had a great point after he read your blog and i paraphrase swear words deleted lol his point was preferential treatment is not equality it ensures the cycle of us versus them .

    (Response: He’s right! We should all be trying/supporting equality for all …regardless or race, religion, ethnicity, or ANY other criteria. Singling ANY group out for negative OR positive “SPECIAL” treatment does ensure both the appearance and the reality that certain people are “different” … and can reinforce the us versus them perceptions. h.o)

  50. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, THIS report doesn’t absolve the health care system of a whole lot of things. If you read towards the bottom of the article you refer to, there is mention of incidents which …………. the report also mentions this “game” may have been played in the past, but currently isn’t.

    Now as to the facts comment. Its borrrrring. we see things differently. You see them from the eyes of a successful I suspect white male. I don’t. I had a successful career and retired at 48. However, I lived through a time in this province when all you had to be was an immigrant with an accent to be discriminated against. You do remember you couldn’t live in areas if you were a person of colour or a Jew. In some sub divisions in B.C. its still on paper. Not legal, but no one has ever removed those sections. Some goes for private golf courses, men’s clubs. I’m sure Harvey will remember when Chief Justice Nathan Nemetz was denied membership to the Vancouver Men’s Club when he was appointed Chief Justice. it was only after Robert Bonner stood up that things change.

    Having friends and acquaintances within the Indigenous community and watched the politics of it all, I’m not given to believing they are treated equitably. When the other sister gets lousy treatment in a restaurant and you don’t, you do leave wondering what is the difference, except we’re just so “white” and she is just so Indigenous.

    You can carry on about facts, etc. but I base my opinion on the my personal experiences and those of others around me. Life is a long way from equal or has much equity because specific groups in our society are not willing to give up their priviledge. what is rather amusing in a warped way, is they don’t even see it as priviledge, they’ve had it for so long.

    As our province changed, new groups of immigrants, the tone-racist comments didn’t change, they just were focused on another group. What has always confounded me is that nothing much changed for the Indigenous community. Hence the need for them to be vaccinated first.

    When Italians first starting coming in larger groups to Vancouver, you should have heard those of “anglo” descent. that stopped when the South Asians arrived. today we see those two groups as newscasters, owners of sports teams, executives. People of Asian descent now live in areas they were once prevented from. Not much has improved for the Indigenous people. Like you know those hockey games you hear about, kids playing, where racist insults are voiced loud and clear. Its because of what still continues I’m a firm believe in Indigenous people receiving the vaccines first. We can’t be assured they would get them without this policy. Just don’t trust the system enough.

  51. Not Sure says:

    Harvey, you said this in response to Mr. Baker. “I’m always happy to expose government hypocrisy, racial divisiveness and patronizing pandering to various groups … while preaching the virtues of equality.” after saying that you hoped “everyone gets to understand and appreciate others’ points of view”. I am just wondering why you think I hold the position I do. Is it because I support hypocrisy, racial diviseness, patronizing pandering. Or is it because I am woefully uninformed, a naive sucker for the woke crowd, and an apologist for the NDP and big sister Bonnie? Or I have an opinion with valid supporting facts?

    There is much to unpack in this topic. It is very complicated. We are dealing with a priority system for a vaccine rollout during a deadly pandemic. There is hardly time for philosophical discussions. Hard decisions have to be made.

    I understand your idea of equality – that everybody should get the same, but even you admit that remote communities should get priority because of the risk factors. So not everything is the same. And as that meme I posted suggested, getting the same is not necessarily fair.

    I was at my hygienist today and of course we talked covid. Here she was dressed more protectively than an Olympian fencer resigned to the fact her 40 year old self was not getting priority over the general public. “I’ll be six inches from your face with saliva flying around”. But when I asked how she felt about Indigenous people over 65 getting priority she started to give reasons to support that decision.

    The best thing about this topic is how it identifies our world view. I am not a former journalist who dealt pretty much exclusively with politicians and their constant spin so maybe I am not quite as cynical about them. Maybe that is my failing. But I went to google again this time typing “Indigenous 65+ covid” and seven or so hits down I came across this.

    https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/immunization/national-advisory-committee-on-immunization-naci/guidance-prioritization-initial-doses-covid-19-vaccines.html

    Yes Harvey, it is government but it is from the National Advisory Committee on Immunization. If we can’t accept them at their word then what’s the point of having any discussion. To save time I will copy one paragraph. After explaining why remote villages are given priority (I think we all agree there) they added this. I capitalized what I think is relevant.

    NACI acknowledges that racialized and marginalized populations in Canada have been disproportionately affected by COVID-19, and that systemic barriers to accessing necessary supportive care for COVID-19 ALSO EXIST IN URBAN SETTINGS related to factors such as poverty, systemic racism and homelessness. THESE POPULATIONS MAY BE CONSIDERED FOR IMMUNIZATIONS CONCURRENT WITH REMOTE and ISOLATED Indigenous communities if feasibly identified within jurisdictions.

    So Bonnie Henry and her team decided that urban Indigenous people over 65 were an at risk group. Not all Indigenous people just those over 65. Is this a big deal one way or another. I am Not Sure. So why am I commenting. Maybe I should call myself “Why do I Care”

    1. I don’t think we should dismiss some of the inequities in our society, passing them off as “people not looking after themselves”.
    2. I think we have to give our health professionals some leeway in their decision making. That doesn’t mean they can’t be questioned, asked for clarification and transparency. But they are public servants with nothing political to gain unlike politicians. By questioning their motivation (racist, patronizing, pandering), we are undermining the their efforts and feeding the narrative of the people like the guy responding to one of your blogs on Puget Sound Radio who claims that Covid doesn’t even exist. (I was cheering for you BCMQ when you challenged him.)

    I know I am getting into TLDR territory, so I will finish with this. I think there is enough evidence (health, history, socio-economic) to give Indigenous people 65+ some priority. Maybe we shouldn’t. Maybe Harry’s friend is correct. But there is evidence. I do agree that healthy Indigenous people over 65 don’t need that priority. That is frustrating. But age is the easiest identifier. It also means lots of healthy people like me get priority over many people much younger who are more at risk. I wish there was a way to fix that.

    Important topic for lots of reasons.

    (Response: I know you probably don’t realize it, but again you have fallen into the Big Brother condescension trap …when you quote studies that talk about ” poverty, systemic racism and homelessness” among Indigenous people living in urban areas. Do-gooders have to get it through their heads, there are thousands and thousands of Indigenous people who are educated, have good jobs, totally functional families and are NOT homeless and poor, living in tents or on the downtown Eastside. I’m sure these normal, successful, self-reliant people would appreciate it if Big Brother would treat them as such … and NOT single them out by RACE as if they can’t possibly take care of themselves and would instead prefer to get vaccinated at the exact same time as their neighbours do of the same age. h.o)

  52. NVG says:

    I would hazard a wild guess and say ….. we, here, speak of the First Nation People as if they are our neighbours, close to the amenities that we enjoy. Here’s a link to where all of the First Nation people communities are in British Columbia.

    https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/natural-resource-stewardship/consulting-with-first-nations/first-nations-negotiations/first-nations-a-z-listing

    (Response: Another red herring. Again, this blog topic is NOT about First Nation “communities” around BC .. God Bless them all … and I agree, wherever people are living in close quarters (including mining and lumber camps by the way) accelerated vaccinations are understandable. BUT, despite so many people’s patronizing attitude that suggests Indigenous people EVERYWHERE are somewhat lesser than the rest of us and need special care/attention, as the NDP’s rollout schedule enshrines, let me enlighten you: there are thousands of Indigenous people with good jobs, well educated, skilled, quite bright and physically fit living throughout BC and Canada right in the middle of every “general” urban and rural communities. They do not need ..and I suspect many do not want the NDP government’s pointing to them (First Nations, Metis, Inuit) 65 and over and separating them out for “special treatment” because politicians and bureaucrats working under the Big Brother government deems they need it. It’s patronizing, racist and demeaning … and if the BC media got off their asses, I’m sure they could find many who want the respect that comes with equality .. and would prefer to be treated just like everyone else living in the cities and neighborhoods where they do… and should be vaccinated with everyone else in their particular age category. h.o)

  53. Les says:

    Current as of Jan. 29 2021 global Covid 19 stats (SOURCE IS THE WORLDOMETER) tells us that there are 25,971,023 active cases. 25,864,275 (99.6%) have at most mild conditions. 110,226 (0.4%) are in serious or critical condition.

    FOR THIS WE DESTROY ECONOMIES, PERSONAL/SOCIAL LIVES AND PERPETRATE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS IN ALL TOO MANY NATIONS INCLUDING CANADA!?!?!

    The mainstream media is wholly guilty of fake news and neglecting true investigative journalism (Goebbels would be proud of their water carrying propaganda). Governments and their bureaucracies are guilty of CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY! and MUST be dealt with accordingly.

    Many in public are guilty of failing to educate themselves.

    The (they are not) vaccines are in a little under 2 months of distribution causing already hundreds of thousands of adverse health reactions including attribution to very many deaths, NOT ALL ONLY OLDER PEOPLE BUT MID AGE AND YOUNGER TOO!

    Maerk has abandoned its two vaccine attempts for lack of efficacy, (citing less than 50% in their trials). Ask yourselves if they with their supposed educated medical scientists cannot get a (not a) vaccine that has a better than 50% efficacy, DOES ANY OF YOU BELIEVE PHIZER AND MODERNA efficacy numbers??? Maerk will continue with their TWO anti viral medicines that show some promise though.

    A German doctor has said he finds the Phizer vaccine only to be at 8% efficacy… He was refuted by Phizer. NO S#!T SHERLOCK!

    This Covid 19 fiasco over the last year, the global governments, bureaucratic response including pushing NOT PROPERLY TESTED trial (not) vaccines WILL BE THE BIGGEST SCANDAL OF THE FIRST 25 YEARS OF THE 21st. Century, if not by year 2100 the biggest scandal… HEADS MUST ROLL!

    (Response: No… not heads … MORE vaccines MUST ROLL! I notice you (conveniently) omitted from your stats the number of DEAD from the Corona virus: allow me to fill your information gap: World 2,210,000 DEAD so far; US 437,000 DEAD so far; Canada 19,801 DEAD so far. Each one a precious loss, mourned by family, friends, neighbours. So forgive me, I’m going to line up happily to get vaccinated … and hopefully so will everyone else I come into contact with over the next year or two. h.o)

  54. Stu de Baker says:

    So really, how DO you make fair choices? Here’s another debate for the mix. Would this be punishing those like BC and Atlantic Canada, because they got it right?

    “On one hand, Canada’s three hardest-hit provinces have collectively received more than 10 times the Atlantic provinces, which have had much lower COVID-19 levels.

    But at a per-capita level, the situation looks much different.

    Ontario, Alberta and Quebec have each received between 2,200 and 2,800 doses per 100,000 people, while Prince Edward Island has over 4,700, Nunavut close to 13,300, Yukon more than 14,000 and the Northwest Territories in excess of 21,000 doses.”

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-opinion-divert-vaccines-covid-19-1.5893806

    (Response: Very interesting data: sure looks to me like politics and squeaking wheels are both involved ..especially when the feds know an election is in the offing. I suspect the feds would argue some smaller populated provinces/territories are like gigantic “reserves” … separated and isolated from the rest, so community vaccination is more effective. But watch my next blog .. I think there are other figures Canadians should be more concerned about. Trudeau/Libs won’t like it. h.o)

  55. Not Sure says:

    This is so hard.

    1. I have acknowledged that the program could look unfair.

    2. I have acknowledged that healthy Indigenous people over 65 do not need the priority. (But with age being the easiest way to identity people and age being a significant risk factor, health authorities have chosen that route despite the fact that lots of people (like me and maybe you) will be getting the vaccine before others who are more at risk.

    3. The health authorities have indicated that Indigenous people under 65 don’t need extra support. We are dealing with a small group. By the way, 7% of Indigenous people are over the age of 65 compared to 16% for non-Indigenous.

    I don’t know how much you want us to understand your point of view.

    You on the other hand won’t even acknowledge that inequities exist, that we should ignore them completely because some in the group have managed to overcome those inequities. That people like me are just do-gooders (when did that word become a pejorative) who fail to understand… Really difficult to proceed discussion-wise.

    Last point. Stu de Baker linked us to an interesting article. And your response was completely predictable.

    I am Not Sure but I think Mr. Baker presented it as another difficult philosophical/moral dilemma facing our health authorities and governments. I certainly viewed it that way. You as a former reporter viewed it as political, “the squeaky wheel”, “the election coming up”.

    Just a reminder. You were furious back in December because you felt health orders should be specific to only the regions where the outbreak was doing the most damage. Do you feel that vaccines should be treated the same way?

    (Response: YES, there ALL KINDS of inequities in life: not just affecting Indigenous peoples, but EVERYONE based on birth, race, religion, geography, economics, education, even looks, …there is no end to reasons. But surely, from government, in 2021, we should ALL demand they not promulgate it! The harm the NDP is doing by separating out Indigenous people over 65 and pushing them to the front of the line, everywhere in BC, will do more harm than good in the long run … reinforces the stereotype that they ALL need special help, aren’t quite up to par with the rest of us. I believe it’s just pandering and racist … and truly hope one day we will achieve equality for all, where EVERYONE who needs a vaccine first can get it and EVERYONE who does not will wait their turn, arm and arm with their fellow citizens who also do not. h.o)

  56. Les says:

    Harvey.

    The Covid 19 deaths you noted are not true. The CDC itself has said that now about 96% of all US Covid 19 deaths were NOT due to coronavirus. They attribute something like only 9000 or so US deaths to Coronavirus. Of the 96% reported deaths WITH Covid 19 and NOT FROM Covid 19 the CDC says Covid 19 had little if anything to do with the deaths. This is the US CDC talking and not me.

    I suggest your journalism is failing you, for you seem take in all the scaremongering fed you of reported deaths and worse the lunacy of CASES CASES CASES! Pi$$off on the cases. Both the CDC and WHO ( OBTW the (late) Kary Mullis the man who invented the PCR test is on record saying it should never be use to diagnose for a virus or similar such thing) are on record saying the PCR test is NOT CREDIBLE for the cycle count of each test is TOO HIGH! Once you cycle the test more than 35 times you get near a 90% false positive. Yet the tests typically run 40-45 cycles.

    Cases globally are through the roof yet hospitalization rates are quite low. AND YES, THERE ARE NO HOSPITALS LIKELY ANYWHERE RUN WITH THEIR STAFF TO THE GROUND OVER THIS! They seem to have ample time to make sickening TIK TOK dance videos.

    Harvey you were one of the world class news journalists when you were in the MSM. But I suggest that you may be slipping at that today.

    Also these are NOT vaccines. They are anything but. With only 0.4% of the global population in serious care over Covid 19 this is all a BIG OVER REACTION!

    Ask yourself readers, HOW MANY PEOPLE DO YOU KNOW THAT HAVE ACTUALLY DIED FROM COVID19 and not with Covid 19? Most people have no knowledge of such.

    What is it, I recall reading of one US state I think it may be Colorado ??? where the government has stated that EVERY DEATH in that state is to be labeled a Covid 19.
    death.

    The Cares Act of 2020 PAYS upwards $53,000 per diagnosed Covid 19 CASE to the states that report these. WHY WOULD THEY WANT THE GRAVY TRAIN TO STOP!?!

    (Response: I know the game played by Covid-deniers: if I try to refute your assertions by quoting mainstream media, WHO, Dr Fauci, Dr Henry or even Donald Trump (okay…maybe I’m going a bit too far! 🙂 ) you would say I’m drinking the Covid Koolaid myths. So let me try something else: the Kremlin!! Not exactly part of the Western corporate media establishment! According to RT Network, Rossiya in 2020 suffered a huge population decline, compared to experienced normal recent annual population losses due to emigration and lower birth rates. And Rossiya blames COVID … says “excess mortality in the first 11 months of 2020 reached 184,600 people.” https://www.rt.com/russia/513946-population-decline-accelerated-residents/ Are they part of the Western World plot to deceive too? Of course, you’ll say Yes, but thought I’d ask …just for the fun.) h.o)

  57. I am the Baker Man says:

    Then there is the other reality. While folks here are getting their supreme white thongs bunched, an associate in Signal Mountain TN, pop 8500, sent this:
    “We received ours in a bizarre fluke. My wife heard from a friend that the county health dept. had received some vaccine.

    I called to see how many they were preparing to distribute—mostly to get a feel for how it would go down when our turn rolled around. I was told that they had indeed received 100 doses for first responders but most of them were refusing to take it and the health dept. needed to “move on.”

    After a few questions, they told us we qualified and could come get vaccinated—first come-first served. We raced over to the health dept. and were second in line.

    Even with that small number of doses, they didn’t use them all up that first day—there just didn’t seem to be many in line as we were leaving.

    We were extremely lucky—one of the benefits, I suppose, of living in a county with a tiny population, much of which is distrustful of government and in denial about the seriousness of the virus.”

    Some here would get along well in Signal Mt.

    (Response: No country, unfortunately, is immune from unusual circumstances or schemes or schemers that result in some people getting the vaccine ahead of their slotted time. That’s quite different from government designating a whole RACE, even those perfectly fit and healthy, at 65 to go ahead of their neighbours right next door, as much as 70 to 80 years old, with serious compromised health conditions. Face it: it’s RACIST PANDERING … and sure won’t help bring people together! h.o)

  58. Quaker Baker says:

    Not Sure; “do-gooders” jumped off the page at me as well.

    Something was gnawing at me so I went back over the posts again and it hit me.

    The game of the ant-NDP, Adrian Henry Horgan cabal is to out word us. Their posts more and longer, using the derogatory echo chamber, in the hopes we will tire of it and just go away.

    It’s working.

    Opposing views need to be silenced. Period. Although we hear, “let’s have a healthy rational conversation,” the MHOGA crowd really doesn’t want to hear anything other than their own voices.
    ………………………..
    My earlier post about the acquaintance in Signal Mountain, a small town the size of Kitimat, was just for a bit of levity. Nothing more. Not about schemers, racists or pandering. Just some fun at Tennessee’s expense.

    (Response: “Opposing views need to be silenced” ??? Your paranoia is ill founded: there has not been a SINGLE post on either side of the current question under discussion that I have trashed, not posted. You owe me an apology. As for being anti-NDP, anti-Horgan .. ho hum. In a democracy, people and parties in power, with the ability to introduce laws that regulate/control millions of lives and in control of billions of dollars of taxpayers’ funds should EXPECT to be scrutinized, criticized and lambasted for their shortcomings …and I’m happy to do my part! h.o)

  59. 13 says:

    @ shake and bake. Nice try, those that oppose should just read your views and accept them as gospel. The only way that they can dispute your most excellent theories is to over post . You seem new to KIR and its nice to read your posts but dont get hung up on why some disagree with your ideas. For 16 years the BCLIEBERAL bashers had a field day. Horgan is proving to be a bit of a liebral himself

  60. Just Baker says:

    Sorry Mr. Oberfeld, I can’t apologize for something I did not say or you misread; “there has not been a SINGLE post on either side of the current question under discussion that I have trashed, not posted.”

    I was referring to the lengthy, rambling, word volumes and domination by half the crowd over peaceful protesters. It is they who want to silence and run the opposing views.

    13, thank you for the chuckle. Shake and bake; cute, original and refreshing from the ad nauseam names. To you I apologize. My words to you are like gravel in the hubcap, a tin cup on the bars. But it too is working.

  61. frozentundra says:

    I am sorry Mt Baker for disagreeing with your views. We should all except your views as gospel and not question the government and prioritize First Nations, whether they are 18 or 80. What that type of thinking you should be at the top of mountaintop charging a million dollars to tell us all how we have failed. Democracy is having alternative views and this blog is one of the last out there to allow that. Go to some other blogs. For some, if you show the least compassion to your fellow humans, such as the Rebel, you are a left wing snowflake. For others, such as the Tyee, if you allow your fellow humans to make a living while within 100 km of a machine, you are a racist capitalist pig. Thank you for a more centrist approach, Harvey

    (Response: I can hardly wait to see the reaction my next blog, coming out Monday morning, will bring. 🙂 h.o)

  62. G. Barry Stewart says:

    CBC Radio’s “Cross Country Checkup” theme today was on listeners’ views on the vaccine rollout.

    Lots of interesting comments. One, from Ontario I believe, was a nurse who was waiting for her turn — though the management staff and an office staffer WORKING FROM HOME were vaccinated ahead of her.

    One admin offered to give up her turn to a nurse but was told that wasn’t possible. She was on the list and that was that.

    In the case of the vaccines, such as Pfizer, which need to be tossed if not adequately stored, I hope a “call me” list will be kept, for people who want a call if surplus vaccine is about to be tossed and could be given to any who can come in quickly.

    Btw: ratings ran from “failing” to “A+”. One respondent said we are so fortunate to have vaccines coming available only a year after the start of the pandemic. He’s not wrong.

    https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/what-grade-are-you-giving-canada-s-vaccine-roll-out-1.5893861

    (Response: Read my next blog: it on the rollout. h.o)

Comments are closed.