BC’s LNG Pipe Dream Has Sprung Leaks

Geez!  I was counting on it! Riches beyond our wildest dreams! Enough to retire ALL of BC’s debt; lower taxes; adequately fund health care, education …and maybe even BC Ferries!

After all, the Premier wouldn’t lie to us, would she?

It wasn’t that long ago, just BEFORE the 2013 that Premier Christy Clark told us there would be THREE Liquified Natural Gas plants up and running in BC by 2020…. the first one in 2015.

Huh?

“The money is going to start coming in 2017, and we’re going to have three plants up and running by 2020, the first one by 2015,” she said Feb. 13, 2013.

When?

“Our goal is a debt-free B.C. and we intend to reach our goal 15 years from today,” Clark said in April, 2013.

Wow!

REALLY BAD assessment?   Or DOWNRIGHT LIES?

Politically … all that mattered was it helped Clark and the Liberals win the May 2013 provincial election.

Some will see that as disgraceful, even disgusting; others may look for reasons or excuses.

After all, circumstances can change; world markets can shift; negotiations can take time; planning can be more complex than originally expected; and construction can face delays.

But now, there are increasing signs and analyses that it could be GENERATIONS before BC starts getting showered with dollars from flowing LNG … if ever at all.

In January, The Tyee carried an eye-opening exposee outlining how far behind B.C.’s LNG pipe dream has fallen … and worse, quoted Jim Roy, a former royalty adviser to the Alberta government as concluding BC’s plans are NOT VIABLE at current prices and proposed tax/royalties would actually constitute a SUBSIDY to the industry.

You can read the entire article here:http://thetyee.ca/News/2015/01/15/Gas-Prices-BC-LNG/

But that was not all.

Just a week ago, CBC.CA carried another article, quoting another expert economic analyst, Kenneth Medlock, as saying “The ship has already sailed in the global race to export liquefied natural gas to Asia, according to U.S. energy economist Kenneth Medlock — and Canada has missed it.”

Bon voyage!

“We don’t see any LNG exports from Canada until almost 2040,” he said in an interview.

You can read that entire article here:http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/lng-exports-from-canada-a-distant-prospect-analyst-says-1.2978953

And NEITHER of these experts, from anything I’ve seen, can remotely be described as NDP plants or even sympathizers.

Just keeping it real!

BC’s pipe dream certainly appears to have sprung some pretty large leaks.

And what has been coming out are not the jobs and the riches we were promised SO SOON by the Premier and the government … but mostly HOT AIR.

MAYBE some bucks …not the promised fortune …  and MAYBE in 20 to 40 years … not flowing this year  …. and only MAYBE in the future.

MAYBE.

Or in politics … long enough to allow another FIVE to TEN elections of repeated pipe dream promises!

Harv Oberfeld

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80 Responses to BC’s LNG Pipe Dream Has Sprung Leaks

  1. Bill says:

    And I was just at the bank to check out the balance of the prosperity fund. It showed an overdraft in ethical governance.

    (Response: Very good! LOL! h.o)

  2. Ron Wilton says:

    I am frequently perturbed that we as a province seem to be given such short shrift by the eastern based media and I know you do your best to let them and us know we matter, but after seeing and ‘hearing’ our preemy strutting her nonsensical blather at these national gatherings and forums, I cringe because I see and hear ‘why’ we are given such a pass by national media.

  3. Hugh says:

    The last thing BC wants is to be exporting LNG. If BC does in fact have a large supply of natural gas, we should be using it ourselves, as transport fuel for example.

    For LNG to go ahead it needs massive subsidies and tax breaks from BC. So no real benefit to us.

    And there is the fracking issue: most BC natural gas needs to be fracked as far as I know.

  4. larry Bennett says:

    Interesting Harvey, and the NDP plan is … what? Raising the minimum wage to $15 per – extremely inflationary, and it will be us seniors who will suffer most. Perhaps they can make anti-pipeline demonstrators into paid civil servants!
    It is obvious that Clark’s touting of the LNG industry has been over-the-top, but, because it doesn’t hold future jobs for lower mainlanders, does not say it will not be very meaningful in the future, even given that that future is more distant then once thought.

  5. H Coleman says:

    The last election I sent a emails to numerous media and blogger outlets, asking if there was ANYTHING that Christy Clark was claiming during the campaign that could be stated as, “BEING UNDENIABLY TRUE”, and didn’t get one response from any Mainstream Media types, but got a response from Bob Makin, saying “good question”. But as usual the MS media sure seems content to let the BS flow unchallenged in BC.

    (Response: They should be doing a LOT more on the TRUTH being so different than the promises. And if any contracts are actually signed … they could spend weeks tearing the financial details apart and examining exactly how many foreigners will be brought here to do the work …art lower salaries, lousier working conditions etc. Oooooh! Could be great fun!!! h.o)

  6. DBW says:

    So what’s the point?

    A couple of months ago you said about the announcement of Site C.

    “Dust off Christy’s hard hat!

    Site C will be the 2017 version of the Liberals’ 2013 LNG Billions (sic) election strategy.

    And remember … it worked!!!

    Despite all the criticism, despite all the naysayers, despite all the cynical analysis, despite all the polls … the Liberals were returned to power with a BIGGER majority!”

    We pretty much have the worst governing party in the history of our province – well at least in my lifetime – that is only exceeded by the complete incompetence of perhaps the worst opposition party in the history of my lifetime.

    My disappointment at the results of 2013 was not the defeat of the NDP but the victory of the Liberals, a party that did not deserve to win and in fact won on lies – JOBS JOBS JOBS TRILLIONS TRILLIONS TRILLIONS

    As bad as the NDP or the Greens may have appeared they weren’t so bad that four years without the Liberals wouldn’t have been such a disaster. And if they NDP weren’t in fact good after four years, the Liberals would have been using that time to renew themselves to make themselves better instead of the smug group we have now and for the foreseeable future.

    I live in the Northwest where numerous people have trouble peeing because every conceivable body part is crossed in hopes of LNG coming to our area. And if one does, great for us, but it sure isn’t going to be the boon as promised for the entire province.

    So back to my original question? What’s the point when the NDP has the reputation (fairly or unfairly) of being the party of NO to even criticize the Liberals now.

    We knew during the election that it was all a sham. We know the next election will be won on a sham, on fake promises and false projections.

    We have what we have folks. Move along.

    (Response: Very good points! It saddens me when I see the hard hat silliness/photo ops actually working. Next election, the Premier could be rushing about to many more sites, Site C AND all those LNG locations. But I keep writing about/exposing the reality of what’s going on …trying to do my own part to educate people to what’s really going on. Pass this blog on …get more folks to read/follow our discussion and take part: BC needs that more than ever. h.o.)

  7. Gene the Bean says:

    Good morning Harvey,

    There could be a lot to say about this issue but I think this sums it up – – –

    Anyone that accepts being lied to and does nothing about it lacks both intelligence and morality.

    (Response: Not sure about morality … and as for intelligence, maybe they knew it was hot air, but found the NDPs promises, policies, campaign even worse! h.o)

  8. moose says:

    springing leaks????… it’s fully SPRUNG

  9. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Yes, Rich Coleman (minister responsible for gas) fell well short of calling Christy a bald-faced liar when he admitted that her pre-election LNG claims were “aspirational.”

    Wear a hard hat and give people a smile and a (bottomless) bucket of hope — and that could get you elected. It worked for Christy, though it wouldn’t have if the NDP had run a different style of campaign.

    Now, the NDP are on record as supporting LNG — at least on the surface — so as not to be seen as subverting the deals that are supposedly in the works.

    As your research points out, Harvey, the only way LNG could make a go in BC would be for the government to subsidize it. How can you erase debt by subsidizing any industry?

    The only hope would be that you could tax the “100,000” workers employed in the industry. So far, the BC Christy Liberals’ “Job Plan” is running flat… other than for the guys who made the ads.

    (Response: Another scandal will likely be the HIGH number of FOREIGN workers brought into to build the plants/pipelines etc. ….THOUSANDS. I don’t buy the excuse that so many are essential because Canadians can’t do the work: I believe it will have a LOT more to do with lower wages, lower housing conditions. lower benefits….maybe not even paying Canadian income taxes on all or part of what they get. But I’m sure the MSM will be all over that story, stories worth a whole series!!! h.o)

  10. r says:

    And what about 10 billion dollar site C?

    2014 ended march 31 fy -BC Hydro still at 53 gwh for BC.
    Avg 53 since 2008?cfl/LED lightbulbs and smart meters?
    so why site C?

    http://media.commonsensecanadian.ca/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Graph%201.jpg

  11. Lew says:

    If the electoral market keeps buying pipe dreams, why change your product?

    (Response: So true, so sad …but I’d bet most voters don’t believe the other side would keep their promises either. h.o)

  12. Instead of shipping OUR natural gas off-shore why not just supply it to ourselves.

    No middlemen. No oversea markets. It would be bonus for local manufacturers, and of course BC Ferries wouldn’t have to purchase their fuel.

    But wait, that’s the way it used to be until Gordon Campbell sold off BC Gas that eventually landed in the laps of Kinder & Morgan

  13. Laura says:

    There’s also people out there that actually believed the Liberals when they said we were in surplus while running up over 100 billion in new debt.

    Next election the Liberals will probably promise to give everyone a million dollars and free strawberries for life and get elected again. And once again people will wonder what happened.

    (Response: I never ceases to amaze me … how people say over and over, in the face of broken promises, how politicians are liars …. and then fall EXACTLY for the same thing four years later. Over and over again! h.o)

  14. Len says:

    EXACTLY….But there are still the fastcats to consider in all this.

    (Response: Actually the fastcats exposed the less than stellar abilities of BOTH the NDP (for the design and costing etc.) AND the Libs (for selling them off for chump change after turning down an earlier offer of $90 million. Will definitely NOT entrust MY retirement savings to either of these financial wizards. h.o)

  15. Norm Farrell says:

    I remember one of our children announcing that when he grew up, he would earn a million gazillion dollars and be able to buy whatever he wanted.

    We didn’t take the child seriously years ago. (He promised me a Ferrari Dino and I’m still waiting.) Nor did we take Christy Clark’s promise seriously when she said the province would soon be debt free and paying for services with LNG revenues.

    Instead, we paid attention to her government piling on public debt and contractual obligations at rates far beyond any politicians in BC history.

    Yet, it appears the LNG pre-election fantasy worked for Liberals. Troubled and immoderate societies are ripe targets for Große Lüge and success depends on media that is obtuse, inattentive or complicit.

    Respected semi-retired journalist Paul Willcocks wrote a recent article in The Tyee about the need to keep “a studied distance between journalists and the people they write about.”

    Paul’s final advice is not something new to principled reporters and commentators:

    “The way journalists feel about people can affect their coverage, even if they are not aware of the bias.

    “And the best way to avoid that is to keep your distance. ”

    (Response: I suspect almost all those contributing on here, from both sides of the political spectrum, didn’t place much faith in the promises of riches to come …so fast! But the important thing is that MANY, MANY voters DID … leading the Liberals back into power. Who is it who once said you will never go poor underestimating the ignorance of the AVERAGE voter. h.o)

  16. larry Bennett says:

    Hugh – “fracking” oooh scary! They’ve only been doing it for at least 50 years. On U.S. ads (where all this paranoia began), they are now crowing and bragging about the fact they are self-ssufficient in gas and natural gas. The Hollywood types gotta be freakin’ out. Notice Obama is no longer on their bandwagon, though he still warns about “dirty” Canadian oil.

  17. D. Malcolm Johnston says:

    As P. T. Barnum observed; “There is a sucker born every minute.”

    Those who voted for Christie Clark and the BC Liberals on the sole basis of the LNG pipe dream, welcome to Barnum’s world, sucker.

    The same thing goes for the TransLink transportation plans reducing congestion and pollution, as the Mayor’s Council and TransLink are treating the electorate as suckers.

    Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me!

  18. e.a.f. says:

    I certainly wasn’t buy what she was selling back then. If people did they weren’t that bright. Perhaps they didn’t want to deal with reality, perhaps they were grabbing for straws, any thing to avoid reality.

    Part of the problem is the Premier and her crew did not have a back up plan. Perhaps that was because they didn’t care, weren’t bright enough, deluded even themselves. Who knows, but a back up plan was never there.

    You know, in case LNG doesn’t work how are we going to provide jobs in this province, besides sending people to Alberta?

    Raising wages to $15 an hr. would actually help the economy. Right now B.C. has the highest rate of child poverty in Canada and has had for most of the time the Liberals have been in office. How do children get poor? Their parents aren’t paid enough. There are currently approx. 1,200 hospital workers who are going to loose their jobs, mostly women. Why? Because their employers have to “bid” on the contracts in hospitals. So the people working for $12 an hr. will loose their jobs to people who will go to work for the new contractors at min. wage. It will create caos in our hospitals, once again. If Christy had even the smarts to set a “living wage” as the min. wage for all government contract, there would be at least fewer people working at poverty level wages.

    When children live below the poverty level, we pay one way or another. As a Stats Can study recently announced, approx. 40K Canadians die prematurely each and every year due to income inequity.

    I’m not that interested in how things work for seniors. Children are more important in the grand scheme of things. Children do not control what goes on around them. We have a duty to ensure they are adequately provided for.

    Christy with all her hot air/gas just sold the people of this province a load of (edited..h.o.). The majority bought it. That’s their problem. But it is all our problem to ensure the children of this province don’t suffer because of it.

  19. EllBee says:

    #14. Fastcats? Is that all you got? Well to be honest, the best softball media in Canada has regurgitated that whenever necessary. So Fastcats it is. 2 times the budgeted cost. Now shall we get real as Harv would say? Stadium roof, Port Mann crossing, Northwest Transmission Line, Convention Center, Perimeter Road Project. These make Fastcats a bargain as at least the intent was to hopefully start a new industry. The NDP should have weathered the storm, told the naysayers to piss off and fixed them. No matter the cost. After all, the Libs are spending like drunken sailors and rarely a word of protest in the MSM.

    (Response: I agree somewhat with your position on the cats. Clearly the design…from wake to potential log problems …was not best for BC coastal service. But after spending so much…I can’t believe engineers couldn’t have redesigned them to make them useful and efficient. h.o)

  20. Splashdancer says:

    Really Harvey, you had to add this

    “And NEITHER of these experts, from anything I’ve seen, can remotely be described as NDP plants or even sympathizers.”

    Was it NDP plants who created a massive world LNG glut.

    NDP plants who built too many export plants, ndp plants who signed $trillion dollar piped natural gas deals between Russia and China.

    Anyone who read reliable sources on LNG, well before the election knew the job numbers were faked by a factor of 10, revenue numbers faked by a factor off 100, only the dumb, uninformed voter believed the bullshit.

    Sorry Harvey, your LNG posting is very thin gruel as it is, to add the line “NDP plants” to this posting, that`s rich.

    Maybe you meant to say, those links you posted weren`t BC Liberal paid liars, like Rich Coleman, and every other BC Liberal, including the BCLNGA British Columbia LNG Alliance, and CAPP.

    Those are the people who spun their LNG facts like Linda Blair.

    NDP Plants?

    Sheesh

    (Response: I stand by that line I wrote…even if YOU don’t seem to have understood it at all! h.o.)

  21. Splashdancer says:

    And for what it`s worth.

    http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/edmonton/Estimate+Seal+Field+petroleum+spill+barrels/10875193/story.html

    17,000 barrels spilled out of a pipeline 2 days ago in remote Alberta, no way to clean it up.

  22. 13 says:

    The argument that never goes away. Did Clark win the election or did Dix lose the election? Maybe the average BC voters isnt a complete dullard, dimwit,dunce,dolt,etc. Maybe the average BC voter just decided that the Liberals had a plan (flawed as it was) and the NDP had No Damned Plan.
    Personaly I laughed at the whole LNG promise. The Liberals could have not even mentioned LNG and they would have still have my support.
    The single most important reason I vote for the Liberals is to keep the NDP on the sidelines.

    (Response: At some point, BC’s LNG will make it to market …nothing wrong with that in my view. BUT what gets me is the FALSE promises (lies) Clark/Liberals delivered to the voters …over and over …and I believe they should be questioned about their now-apparent incompetence …or lying. h.o)

  23. D. Malcolm Johnston says:

    The Fastcats were conceived for a 50 minute Iona island to Gabriola Island car and small vehicle crossing. Sadly, the NDP embroiled themselves with shady land deal around Duke Point and the Gabriola Islanders protested vehemently against a bridge to Vancouver Island.

    Thus ended the need for the Cats.

    This left far advanced planning for the Fastcats to service the two main ferry routes from the lower mainland and Vancouver island. To make the boats work on the routes, a massive bow door had to be added, which cause problems all around.

    The rest is history.

  24. Lacho says:

    “Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me! Fool me thrice (and beyond), welcome to B.C.!!!”

    Fixed, lol.

    And just for the record; I for one don’t believe that myriad citizens have been fooled by this current murder of kleptocrats. It’s too cynical for me to believe that so many of our family, friends, and neighbors are *that* naive. And I don’t think they squeaked out an unlikely win in the last election because of photo-ops, half-truths, charismatic campaigning nor any other type of specious political tactics so many digitized armchair analysts have ascribed to them. That’s just facile mythology crafted by the mainstream media that sounds plausible in our jaundiced world, but in reality is questionable at best. The same spin doctors want you to believe that polls are irrelevant, too, or suddenly inaccurate beyond explanation. All of this to support the prevailing hypothesis regarding the Liberals’ unlikely victory. Wow; what a dearth of creativity! I suggest people use their imaginations a little better regarding how possibly that election was actually “won”.

    It’s time to wake up and apply the lessons we have learned about the true dynamics of politics and the true nature of politicians. It’s bleak, and even tragic – but we have to stop pretending that we don’t know what’s really going on.

    (Response: With regards to the Liberal election victory, you may want to review the blog I wrote just before the last election http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/ndp-policies-give-liberals-new-hope/ on the subject. But that or the election result doesn’t change the reality that the promises made by Clark/Liberals were totally wrong or outright lies … and that should not be allowed to pass without calling her/them to account. h.o)

  25. Splashdancer says:

    Harvey, if it came down to a debate, you are not in the same league.

    NDP plants and sympathizers.

    Using that in a post about a dead welfare industry, an over supplied commodity, an overstated Clark election gambit.

    Really Harvey, let us say NDP plants and sympathizers did write those articles you linked to, would it change the facts on the ground, would it make LNG suddenly viable.

    That statement you made has nothing to do with anything, your bias, your natural hatred of the NDP rose to the surface, you probably didn`t even realize you wrote, it means nothing, doesn`t add to the post, it merely shows your lifelong bias.

    That statement is on par with your insertion of the word hypocrite on your last pipeline post, and yes, I have addressed that here again, not one report on that major spill in the Vancouver Sun, The Province, Global TV.

    A major story with BC implications, our media silent, a major spill, in a remote area, no capacity to clean up the mess, the only blessing is there are no nearby rivers.

    Enbridge northern Gateway, which you are gung HO for, has to cross 800 rivers and streams.

    Well, maybe I`m just a NDP plant and or sympathizer, or perhaps.

    Perhaps I`m as logical as the dear departef Mr. Spock

    (Response: What I was saying is that as far as I can tell…the two experts/economists…are NOT partisan in any way..so that ADDS to their credibility. Anyone who watches discussions on the pros and cons of these issues KNOWS that those who disagree with them almost always challenge their partisanship …thus my attempt to head that question off at the pass. Clearly you don’t ..or prefer not …to get that. As for me not being “in the same league” as you…Thanks, but don’t put yourself down like that. h.o.)

  26. larry Bennett says:

    e.a.f. – Don’t know where you get these strange stats, but we know they can be twisted into all kinds of nonsensical suppositions. 40 thousand Canadians die prematurely annually because of income inequity?! You have no idea of what real poverty is, were you born in the 30’s, 40’s and even 50’s, you might have a clue of what poverty is. Child poverty – where? Why not raise the minimum to $30/hr? According to you, that would solve all our problems. Just who is it who decides how “poverty” shall be defined? It is no doubt some university trained twit, who never had to really ‘work’ for a living and sucks off the public teat. Nor am I surprised that you don’t care how seniors are doing, because you are one of those who hate the elderly because you can’t identify with them.

  27. Hugh says:

    About fracking:

    “The environmental impacts of hydraulic fracturing are air emissions and climate change, high water consumption, water contamination, land use, risk of earthquakes, noise pollution, and health effects on humans.

    Air emissions are primarily methane that escapes from wells, along with industrial emissions from equipment used in the extraction process.

    Modern UK and EU regulation requires zero emissions of methane, a potent greenhouse gas. Escape of methane is a bigger problem in older wells than in ones built under more recent EU legislation.

    Hydraulic fracturing uses between 1.2 and 3.5 million US gallons (4,500 and 13,200 m3) of water per well, with large projects using up to 5 million US gallons (19,000 m3).

    Additional water is used when wells are refractured. An average well requires 3 to 8 million US gallons (11,000 to 30,000 m3) of water over its lifetime.”

    from
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_fracturing#Environmental_impacts

  28. David says:

    What the mainstream media doesn’t report.

    In Alberta in the four months of July to October of 2014 – there were 133 spills, 90 which included pipelines.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/17/1345431/-There-s-Been-HOW-Many-Pipeline-Spills-in-Alberta-in-The-Last-Four-Months

  29. r says:

    The 2010 olympics numbers didnt pan out either. So the numbers word salad already has a precedent.

    “Nothing destroys a beautiful hypothesis like an ugly fact.”

  30. Tom, Dick not Harry says:

    It’s not true that mainstream media was totally ignoring this. 24 hours was pretty critical of the nonsense.

    http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/05/20/russia-china-lng-deal-threatens-bc-efforts-prof

    http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/2014/05/05/premier-clark-announces-lng-agreement-again

    It’s been the old guard media asleep at the switch on this one. The Leslies, Baldries and such.

  31. Gene the Bean says:

    Larry Bennett re comment 16.

    This months National Geographic has an interesting little piece about EARTQUAKES.

    California was always the state with the most earthquakes over magnitude 3.o – but now it is Oklahoma. Yes, Oklahoma.

    From 1990 to 2007 they hade ZERO earthquakes over 3.o

    In 2008 they had two earthquakes over 3.0.

    In 2014 they had 584 earthquakes over magnitude 3.0.

    Why?

    FRACKING.

    Please read my comment number 7.

    It applies directly to you.

  32. e.a.f. says:

    Larry if you want to see child poverty go into any number of elementary schools in Vancouver which provide a breakfast program.

    Check with the food banks, if you want to see if there is child poverty around in B.C.

    the Stats are from stats Canada and its from a study they conducted. Go check. the study compared the health/length of life between 5 income groups in Canada. If you can’t afford your medications, you die earlier. If you can’t afford the “recommended” diet, you die earlier. If you can’t afford all those medical details people have to pay for, you die earlier.

    Raising the min. wage to $30 an hr. is not necessary. A living wage is approx. $20 an hr. in Vancouver. That puts a decent roof over your head and food on the table.

    Income inequity is a simply thing. If you can’t afford massage therapy, pysio, chiro, etc. you tend to have to take pain killers. They tend to do your body no good. hence there is a good chance you will die sooner than later. If you can’t afford the first $800 for meds. then you won’t get to the level you need to have the government pay and you die sooner.

    If you can’t afford a shrink and you have mental health problems, you die sooner. If you live on the streets, you die sooner.

    Comparing life to the “dirty 30s” to today, well its about the same when it comes to poverty. A lot of poverty in the 20th century was caused by income inequity.

    Larry, . I am one of the “elderly”. My point of view is I’ve had my life. Its been very good. I was fortunate. My parents we well educated, smart, had decent jobs, immigrated to Canada after WW II. They didn’t want to go through the deprivation ever again. I know what poverty is. My parents told me all about how people starved and that includes children.

    Children are our future. yes, we may owe seniors for the services they gave to this country, but most of that generation is almost all dead. The people becoming seniors today are the top end of the aging baby boomers.

    Poverty is defined by Stats. Canada, based on how much it costs to provide basic life needs, like you know food, clothing, housing, electricity. As this province raises hydro rates continually, wages have not kept up nor have disability or seniors pensions, but hey if people don’t pay their electricity is turned off. parents have to make a decision do I pay the rent or cut back on food. Do I pay the electric bill or buy food.

    Working for say $11 an hr. 40 hrs a week, if you’re luck, because most can only get part time work, that is $440 a week. Now take off the income tax, etc. The bus fare or gas and there isn’t that much left. Now try to feed 1 or 2 kids on what is left because the rent is going to cost you at least $1,200 month for a dump. Have you seen the price of milk lately? Do you know how much milk a teen age boy will drink?

    At Christmas I had a chance to see poverty in my own community. It wasn’t pretty. A group of us was delivering Christmas hampers to economically deprived families. Parents get injured or sick and can’t work, fall behind on the rent, etc. its very sad and then the Premier decides we really need to save money so we will have hospital cleaners go back to under $11 an hr. Its how income inequity is brought to you by the queen of the photo ops.

  33. harry lawson says:

    Harvey,

    the sad thing is ms clark truly believes that lng is still a viable option.
    as i watch her behavior and that of some of her cabinet ministers, one has to wonder how long she will be premier.

    (Response: It could be …over time. My issue was the way it was promised …with the first plant to be open in 2015 …with revenue royalties flowing and two more up and operating by 2020. Balderdash! And I suspect she knew it at the time, took the voters for fools …and in many cases, turned out correct. Ugh! h.o)

  34. John's Aghast says:

    Harvey, for goodness sake, give four head a shake! By the time LNG becomes ‘viable’ it’ll be eclipsed by nuclear fission, solar, geothermal and/or something else in the works. Within ten years we will no longer be tied to fossil fuels.
    As for Chrispy and her LNG bone, she just won’t let go! She’s still intent on ‘training ‘ 100,000 welders, pipefitters & catskinners for the LNG industry ( which will be in Australia. Trouble is they will be TFWs in Australia and Aus is smart enough to reject them). So we’ll end up with 100,00o trained pipefitters doing heart surgery and hip replacements.
    The woman is psychotic, delusional and threat to mankind. And nope, I’m not an NDP plant, although I do admit the Fast Cats were a good idea gone bad. Comment 23 has got THAT right.

    (Response: If you think…seeing the public opposition in BC to bitumen …that we are going to go NUCLEAR .. you’d better give YOUR head a shake! h.o.)

  35. morry says:

    Christy Clark – the Sarah Palin of BC.

    ” I can see the future from my front porch and it’s LNG “

  36. larry Bennett says:

    So now, don’t you know, if you disagree with Gene the Bean, you are both ignorant and immoral! Now too, it appears that there is to be no further discussion because Gene has proclaimed that there shall be no discrepant versions on said subjects (whatsoever, he deigns) and I, presumably, am to endure patiently, the contempt to which I am due? Not in this lifetime bucko! I fear only the terror by night, the arrow that flies by day, the pestilence that wanders in darkness, and the devils of noon.
    e.a.f. – the reason people send their kids to school w/o lunch or breakfast is because they know the school will provide them. Schools have no business in doing so – anyone who cannot provide their children with 3 squares deserve to have their children taken from them! It’s obvious that you spend way too much time reading studies written by people who are paid by the study and who stand to gain by spreading fear and other socialist schemes throughout the land. “A living wage is approximately $20/hr. in Vancouver”? It is amazing that I have been “living” my life on far below that sum since leaving home. Doing so yea these many years – 50! Then he goes onto his charity runs with Xmas hampers … yadda, yadda, yadda. Spare us all your counsel of despair for I am in continuing ignorance of the causes of your malady.

  37. Scotty on Denman says:

    Most BC people see Christy for what she is: a booster, a prancing majorette, a grandstander; her greatest strength is her supreme self-confidence, and if it takes inflating a whopper with each telling to make sure everyone gets it, she will always relish the prospect. Yet despite boosting LNG to preposterous heights only marginally less reckless than what those forecasts subsequently turned out to be, her handlers were careful not to apply Christy’s schtick to just any proposal. Preposterous is preposterous, so there shouldn’t be any logical difference between any issue to which it’s applied; but better game theory made sure not to attempt the same eye-popping whopperism with, say, Site C.

    Yes, yes, there are some pretty stretched BC Liberal rationales with regard Site C’s estimated costs, impacts, presumed benefits and necessity, but past experience in dam-building effectively puts a governor on just how much those parameters can be whopperized; in contrast, LNG, and especially fracking, is relatively new, making criticism somewhat more speculative. More importantly from a campaigning perspective, tactically compelling a critic to cite the precautionary principle with regard to as-yet undiscovered risks of fracking, for example, tends to make the critic’s prudence look unsure and timid whilst the unrealistic booster looks bold and certain in comparison. That’s why it was important for the BC Liberals to apply the whopperism to a relatively new field with plenty of empirical unknowns, which allowed boosting to get to the preposterous levels required for the image contrast. Christy certainly got the job done on Dix, her natural self-confidence lending a note of genuine sincerity that overrode the fact that everyone knew she was bullshitting. She could have done just as well with any new and unfamiliar field, like nuclear fusion—I can hear it now: fifteen nuclear fusion plants by Christmas, 2015! What the hell—make it COLD fusion! And jobs, jobs, jobs! and money, money, money!—-so much BC’ll be out of debt by Halloween and we won’t need those jobs anymore anyway—we’ll just retire! Remember: the more preposterous, the better; the adversary’s warnings about huge expenses and other unknowns doesn’t have any of those sexy superlatives, regardless the prudential wisdom on offer.

    IMHO, piped dilbit wasn’t really a critical issue for most of the last campaign, merely convenient, available, and cleverly selected for ad nauseam, rote repetition by the Princess Warrior herself. I don’t subscribe to the idea that Dix’s last-minute Kinder Morgan flip-flop was critical either, although many biased positions have argued otherwise, mostly attempting to make the case that his election loss should be interpreted as a broad, democratic endorsement of pipelines in general. Subsequent opinion polls on the matter, however, plainly refute this interpretation. Furthermore, Christy didn’t change course, and, as much as he wanted it to, the flip-flop had no affect on the declining trend Dix had locked onto from early in the campaign—he would have lost whether he’d made the flip-flop or not because voter disaffection towards him derived from his pusillanimous refusal to parry with Christy’s over-the-top whopperism—probably the worst thing he could have done in the circumstance (which was also of his rival’s choosing). The “positive campaign” strategy was foolish, and the desperate, late-in-the-game nature of the flip-flop seemed to prove that Dix was foolish himself too. Voters simply chose the buffoon instead. It really didn’t have much to do with the veracity of the LNG plan—most sane people didn’t believe it anyway; anybody who still does ought to get their head read.

    If my preposterousness theory is correct, it would suggest that the BC Liberals might call upon jack-in-the-box Christy for an encore. That, IMHO, would be as foolish as Dix’s positive campaign strategy. Oh, she’d get the preposterousness part down, alright, but the recent tanking of prospective LNG markets would make a repeat performance patently ridiculous; since a lot of BC Liberal economic charlatanism will continue to come home to roost, Christy and Bill in particular have adopted a comfortable and protective absurdism; however, nothing about the next election will be the same as the last except, of course, the need to get rid of the BC Liberals. Unknowns that made whopperism possible last time are quickly disappearing, with increasingly frequent and disturbing environmental revelations about pipelines and fracking. But perhaps most of all, Christy’s new NDP adversary (that is if she’s up for the contest) is personally and circumstantially unlikely to be cast as easily as Dix into the role of wet-blanket antagonist. “Positive” pusillanimity isn’t in John Horgan’s genes, and, moreover, he is the party’s former energy critic who’s very familiar with the technical complexity energy issues, including of LNG which, we should be reminded, is an industry initiated by the NDP government of the 90s. Otherwise, NDP and BC Liberal LNG policies couldn’t be more different, the free-enterprise socialists taking a realistic approach that minds environmental concerns, and recognizes First Nations’ land rights and Aboriginal Title recently confirmed by the William (Tsilhqot’in) SCoC decision.

    The crony-capitalist BC Liberal’s perfidious record probably means they’d would do well do avoid letting their bet ride on LNG. Yet the reason why they had to resort to whopperism instead of cogent and realistic policies that are good for all BC is the same now as it was last election: they ain’t got nuthin’ but an outrageous record to hide. If they’re going to go for a repeat, they should probably apply the whopperism to an entirely new and obscure field like time travel or something.

    (Response: Really interesting analysis! But I would disagree …sort of ..when you say ” the recent tanking of prospective LNG markets would make a repeat performance patently ridiculous”. Yes, it would be patently ridiculous, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work with many. Political history is filled with all kinds of huge promises that had no realistic chance of coming to fruition, but sufficiently impressed enough to win elections. Sometimes repeated for several elections (like the E-line, for example, or no new taxes or no wage/price controls or THOUSANDS of jobs (for foreign workers?). Many people vote for positive pumped up promises … even if they’re pie in the sky. h.o)

  38. Hugh says:

    The Liberals say that BC has enough natural gas to supply Canada for 8,000 years.

    So if we have so much, why are we running our cars and trucks on gasoline?

    Instead of the incredibly expensive and problematic Site C project, why not burn natural gas to generate electricity?

  39. Ron says:

    Re: r // Mar 9, 2015 at 10:40 am

    And what about 10 billion dollar site C?

    2014 ended march 31 fy -BC Hydro still at 53 gwh for BC.
    Avg 53 since 2008?cfl/LED lightbulbs and smart meters?
    so why site C?

    Site C is all about getting water to the US, power generation a by-product.

  40. nonconfidencevote says:

    My prediction.
    LNG development in BC is heavily subsidized. LNG production in BC will be heavily subsidized.
    LNG in BC will not show a profit for at least 15 years if ever.
    Qatar is the largest producer of LNG in the world.
    Australia is predicted to surpass Qatar in LNG production in the next 5 years.
    The U.S. is exporting LNG because they have such a massive surplus due to fracking..
    Papua New Guinea has completed a $19 Billion dollar plant ahead of schedule and has started shipping LNG.
    Global reserves of LNG are currently 290 million tonnes per year and are expected to rise to 400 million tonnes per year.
    LNG prices have dropped from $16 mbtu to $3 mbtu rendering new LNG projects either stalled/mothballed or cancelled.

    Once again Christy’s bandwagon has left the barn after the parade is over. Unfortunately the majority of parade watchers still believe the parade isnt over.
    LNG will be her Fast Ferry debacle

  41. Hawgwash says:

    Larry, if I may;
    “the reason people send their kids to school w/o lunch or breakfast is because they know the school will provide them. Schools have no business in doing so.”

    The elementary school I can see out my window, does indeed have pupils who are not adequately nourished and are provided at least one decent meal on “school days.” But, Larry, it is not the school which provides them but the parents, who fully fund, purchase and prepare the meals.

    In case you are wondering, Elsie Roy Elementary is in Yaletown, not Strathcona.

  42. Hawgwash says:

    An entertaining perspective, which I almost entirely agree with; especially your take on Dix.

    The “recent tanking of prospective LNG markets would make a repeat performance patently ridiculous” will, on the other hand provide the perfect excuse.
    “Beyond our control.”
    “Unexpected.”
    “Just like the world wide recession of 2008.”
    “No one saw it coming.”

    Bla, bla, bla, poor Christy was dealt a bad hand.

    A recent trip to Vancouver Island, where I got into simple political chatter with two individuals, clearly showed the steep hill reality has to climb.

    A crusty old truck logger, who worked the woods for 48 years and lives within a 12 gauge hit of a clear cut, thinks Christy is cute. That’s it; Cute.

    A left leaning former federal civil servant who believes Justin Trudeau does have experience because of his world travels with his mother.

    God help us.

  43. Hawgwash says:

    Sorry that last one was directed at Scotty on Denman.

  44. BMCQ says:

    Scotty – 38 – And the rest of the Group here that
    continue to talk about Polls.

    I have mentioned this before but………..

    The METHOD of most Polling today is FLAWED!!!

    Much/most of the Polling for the past several years has been done on line. Most of “The Great Unwashed” that take part in that On-Line Polling are Youngish, Left of Centre, and they live in their Mothers Basements, some of them attending Post Secondary Institutions. Therefore many Polls reflect that Left Leaning Bias.

    We then must understand that when Election Day is upon us and Voters actually are required to get up off their Butts and cast a Vote in a real Polling Place those Youngish Left Leaning Types prefer to stay at home in that Basement!

    The Voters that actually show up at the Polling Place are more mature with jobs, or many retired people that actually have something to lose depending on which Party is Elected.

    Most of those over say 35 Year Olds other than Public Sector Workers Vote “Free/Private Enterprise”, it is as simple as that!!!!

    Let’s consider the few Polls and the following Elections I have listed below.

    B.C. –

    Far too many here and other places talk about how that “Campaigning Genius” Adrian Dix blew a 20% point lead. Not true they DID NOT EVER have a 20% Lead!! The Libs had their own internal Polling guy that showed them exactly where they were, and very close. He did his Polling the “Old Fashioned Way”!!

    Alberta

    Remember the day before the Election there? Polls showed The Wild Rose Party winning a Majority! How did that turn out?

    Quebec – Last Two

    Polls were way off!

    Canadian Federal

    Polls had Ignatieff and Harper running “Neck and Neck”. How did that turn out and where is that “Intellectual Giant” Ignatieff today?

    I could go on here but…………..

    LNG

    H.O. makes some good points but you must also pay attention when he points out that there is still time for LNG Production to be developed and eventually be exported from B.C..

    I believe that if B.C. was able to begin the Construction of at least one LNG Export Terminal and Pipe Line within the next two years it would be the beginning of a very lucrative Industry for B.C.

    If we ultimately were able to bring two more LNG Facilities on-line it would prove to be very beneficial for our Economy.

    MSM do not seem to mention this but there are already several First Nations signed on to Pipe Line Deals. Only six months ago most including myself thought that was almost an impossible feat. And here I thought First Nations were “One with Nature”!!! I wonder what changed their minds?

    Grand Chief Phillip must not be too thrilled with that turn of events. Funny I do not hear any MSM Media Types asking him to comment.

    For those that say we should leave LNG where it lies.

    You are the same people that say we will not be required to use Natural Gas soon enough. We will have other forms of Power Generation.

    Now, if that is the case why not harvest NG now and get what we can out of the export market for the next ten or twenty years!!!!

    Why leave it in the ground and get nothing for it once Hugh, Bean and a few others here come up with a new form of Energy!! Take advantage of the demand while it exists!!

    Please do not give me the B.C. about Wind and Tides.

    Long before either of those two begin to generate power we will be generating power from the “Ouija Board” currently collecting dust on Larry Bennett’s Dining room Table!!

    Not more than 5% of you that Post here would agree with Nuke Power, so that is a no go.

    By the way did you know that over 60% of Electricity in France is generated by Nuke Energy?

    If the French can do it………..

    Please also keep in mind when you hear Hypocrites like Mayor Gregor, Suzuki, and others like Al Gore promote “Plug In” Electric Cars that almost 70% of Electricity for those “Plug In” Electrics in the lower 48 U.S. States and much of Canada other than B.C. and Quebec is generated by BURNING COAL!!!!! OMG!!

    As to the deflated price of NG at this time.

    We must understand that any Commodity reacts to World Events and demand for those Commodities. Just look at Au, Ag, Cu, and others they all have their highs and lows. Right now they are all suffering. Much of the reason for the deflated Commodity prices reflects the almost desperate situation in The EU!!!! Keep in mind that The Eu is China’s biggest Customer and China has been the largest consumer of many Commodities for the past ten years.

    As long as the EU continues it’s “Death Sprial” with no solution Commodities will remain trading in the lower range.

    We consume very large amounts of NG in the Business and quite often we experience highs and then we see lows. Fortunately we re able to “Buy forward” for a period of time and that is what we have done.

    In fact even “The Great Unwashed” can take advantage of that same opportunity.

    I would suggest that some that Post here may wish to investigate just how one can do that for their personal residence. Just a guess but I believe Fortis could direct any one to a Broker that could arrange a “Buy Forward” for a few years. Now is the time!!

    Yes as H.O. points out there is good reason to be concerned about the LNG Industry here in B.C. but I still believe there is great potential to get two or three Export Terminals up and running.

    I just hope the Liberal Government are up to the task!

    I do have some concerns with CC and some of her Policies but when I look at the alternative I am left with no choice but to support Private Enterprise.

    Interesting that almost all of the Private Sector union Employees feel the same way!!!!!

    I wonder why?

    Hugh – 39

    I have a question for you. By any chance do you Ski?

  45. BMCQ says:

    Hugh – 39

    You make a good suggestion when you promote the use of NG to power vehicles in B.C.

    In fact the within the next two year or two B.C. Ferries will be using NG to power a few Vessels.

    Keep in mind that many Enviro’s like you are against the use of NG as technically it is a “Fossil Fuel”.

    Having said that I still agree with your suggestion.

    I believe NG was used somewhat for Automobiles and Taxi’s several years ago.

    It is time for the Federal and Provincial Governments to offer Incentives to Commercial and Private Consumers that would convert their vehicles to NG.

    Just think, The World’s Leading Enviro’s like Leonardo Dicaprio, Neil Young, Sting, Paul McCartney, Suzuki, Branson and others could convert their Bentley’s and Yachts to NG.

    What a concept!!!

  46. Hugh says:

    The problem I see with exporting LNG from BC is that production, transport and shipping is very expensive. The sale price of LNG, in Asia for example, has to be quite high in order for it to be worthwhile.

    Right now the sale price is too low, which is why the LNG companies are holding off building plants in BC. It doesn’t make economic sense for them.

    With new natural gas pipelines from Russia to China, and other LNG projects elsewhere, that’s why I don’t see LNG happening in BC for the foreseeable future.

    The LNG companies proposing plants in BC want all kinds of subsidies before they go ahead.
    This means few benefits for BC.

    The BC government is desperate for anything that looks like GDP growth; that’s why they are pushing LNG, even though it doesn’t make economic sense.

    And yes, I love to ski.

  47. Hugh says:

    Just to add that in Australia there are now concerns about the price of natural gas for local use going up due to expanded LNG exports. Same would happen in BC if LNG export goes ahead, I reckon.

  48. mrt says:

    Andrew Coyne: Manning Conference displays how vapid Canadian conservatism has become.

    ….along with Scotty on Denman’s analysis.

    “Ms. Clark was her usual jolly, incoherent self, asserting by turns her unshakeable belief in “free enterprise” and her designs for a planned economy, boasting that her government had “identified eight sectors” as part of a policy of “investing in diversification” that involved “focusing on all those sectors.” A “thriving private sector” was named as “the source of all wealth,” unless it was “the people in the public sector” that “enabled economic growth,” though of course it was “the provinces that drive economic growth.” I suppose I should add that she also expressed the hope that we might find “a new place in the world forever,” but by this point you will probably already have guessed.”

  49. mrt says:

    By the way, love that new word “whopperism”.

  50. larry Bennett says:

    Hawgwash – My point stands – if someone, some entity, or whatever is paying, than you can bet your last buck that many parents will take advantage of that fact, regardless the neighbourhood! You see, they feel owed. As for Strathcona, it seems to me that the member thereof was hardly lacking in nourishment.
    Scotty – would love to read what you had written, but my eyes began bleeding half way through; are you competing with BMCQ for some kind of prolixity prize?

  51. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, you are quite correct in drawing people’s attention to how electricity is “manufactured”. People do love to talk about electric cars, but far too many don’t think/talk about how electricity is produced. When it uses energy which is polluting in nature, might as well just stay with gas.

    If the electricity is produced by solar power, that can create another problem. The most polluted city in China is approx. 150 miles from Beijing. Its industry? Making solar panels.

    When we think of alternative methods of “fuel” we frequently don’t stop to think of how the system is “manufactured” and what is used to create it and how much pollution is created in the product’s manufacture.

    Its like when people run out and purchase a small vehicle because the cost of gas went up. They got rid of that fully paid vehicle. Now they’re making payments on the new one and aren’t further ahead.

    people take their old fridges to the dump because a new one uses less energy, so its more environmental. They forgot the old fridge was still good to use and they didn’t take into consideration the natural resources required to produce a new fridge.

    Larry, I must say your last line was good. I did have a good laugh. However, I will not be able to “spare all of” you my “counsel of despair”. You see we get to express our opinions here. As to the “counsel of despair”, its reality for many. If the government were to take “into care” all the children whose parents couldn’t feed them adequately, most children whose parents were in receipt of welfare would be “in care” with foster parents and we know from some reports how well that is working out for those children.
    I will leave you “in ignorance of the causes of my malady” god I love that line. I’m stealing it! Some have just put it down to my being, “that god dam commie”. Works for me.

    So back to the LNG. It will most likely sit in the ground for many years. WE have missed the boat. There is a lot of the stuff around the world and it can be purchased much more cheaply. There is no point in causing pollution in our province if we aren’t the ones who are going to use the LNG. there is not use in causing pollution unless the financial rewards out weigh the cons.

    The new D. her phot opness is planning will be another great big deficit creating monster. We can expect the tax payers to paying for it forever and the multinationals who get to build it will make a bundle. They have enough trained TFW who can build it without using a single B.C. resident. With the new trade agreements harper and his cons signed, we won’t be able to do much about it.

    I would suggest the new dam is going to be built to accumulate water to be exported to California who may soon be prepared to pay as much for water as they do for oil. They are running out. Some farmers have closed their operations. They can’t afford the water and there is none left to drill for. The aquifiers are empty.

    If companies can build pipelines to carry tar/oil/LNG/gas, whatever, those pipelines can carry water. That is where the money has always been. Just check with Nestle.

    Once the dam is built and we are up to our necks in debt and there is no one to purchase the “electricity”, if photo op princess and her cabal are still in office, they will suggest we sell water and trust me, every one will go for it because, the provincial bank account will be empty and no one will “loan” us any more money. We will be Detroit north.

  52. nonconfidencevote says:

    Speaking of LNG and compliant media….. Did anyone cath Tues. nite 6pm Global.
    The media lickspittles were falling all overthemselves to promote the “yes” vote for Translink.
    They spent over 2 minutes fawning all over some juvenile youtube video aimed at …well….juveniles. Then Gailus cut to Baldrey who bobbleheaded his agreement that the video was well done and that we should all watch it if we hadnt seen it.
    They then spent less than a minute on a story about a Translink building purchase in Burnaby
    Owned by BC transit 20 years ago for 13 million. Sold by BC transit for 8 million 15 years ago, Translink just bought it back for 14 million…….
    Your tax dollars at work.
    Do the buffoons at Translink management grasp the concept of “bad optics, bad timing”?

  53. Lew says:

    I hope one or more LNG plants are built here soon. Having said that, with the subsidy and royalty regimes in play currently we aren’t netting much despite extracting more NG than ever. NG is far down the list of revenue or job creation in this province. Norm Farrell does a very good job of demonstrating that over at his place, http://northerninsights.blogspot.ca and anyone can view his work in his archived posts.

    LNG plants will be built in BC if and when the global conditions are right for the major players involved, and they won’t be built by the BC government or the collective “we” as some posters imply. The BC government has established a reduced tax regime, lobbied the Federal government to ease the temporary foreign worker policies (even to the point of asking that foreign workers in the program be called Potential New Canadians), revamped labor and environmental legislation to “cut red tape”, okayed the $10 billion Site C project just in case the power is needed by the LNG industry, installed an LNG – Buy BC Advocate (a partisan OIC appointment at $150K per annum), and conducted trade missions overseas to inform the major players that BC has NG reserves and we’re open for business. Just in case they didn’t already know. It is questionable whether some or any of these measures were necessary or in our best interests, but they are in place nonetheless, and favor LNG investment.

    So the table is set and the invitations are in the mail. But there are vagaries involved over which she has no control, and Christy Clark should therefore not be promising as she has, complete with timetable and disposition of expected cash flows, that these plants will be built until she has the RSVPs in hand and she can share them.

    There are those who will vote BC Liberal no matter the record detailing a decade and a half of demonstrable lies, record debt which is increasing faster under Christy Clark’s watch than under any other, and myriad examples of ethical shortcomings. Some even proudly and publicly self identify as ideologues by stating their single most important reason for voting BC Liberal is just to keep the NDP at bay, no matter what the Liberals do. They deserve to be lied to, even though the truth or a lie is treated the same by a closed mind.

    But there are those who still naively believe a sitting premier would have more respect for the dignity of the office than to deliberately sully it with a massive empty promise, and that the mainstream media would quickly expose her if she did. They are the easy prey she targets.

    (Response: BC would be a much better off province if more people were as educated and as aware of the info I’ve seen on this blog in the discussions surrounding this topic. Unfortunately, such is not the case …and the voting scenario you outline is sadly so true so often. h.o)

  54. nonconfidencevote says:

    Ho hum , another day another 6pm ‘news” hour “Yes Vote” love in.
    Mayors standing arm in arm with with the Surrey Fire chief warning of “gridlock” if “no” wins and then PR dream police chief Jim Chu (when WILL he retire?) letting us know more transit means we can safely drink and take a bus?
    Newsflash chief: Most people take cabs at 2am and try and get one to take you anywhere east of boundary at that hour. It aint Transit thats lacking…..its cab licenses.

    However I have to hand it to Keith Baldrey. He actually critisized the “Yes” side for staging 3 simultaneous news events at which the news media only showed up to the “mayors and chiefs’ show.
    The other two events…..ignored.
    Once again, excellent planning by Transit.

    Your tax dollars at work. And
    If “yes” wins.
    More tax dollars urinated against the wall because……they can :)-

  55. jUSTjOE says:

    So, e.a.f. we will sell water to California?Question is who pays for it; California or the long
    suffering B.C. taxpayer?

  56. larry Bennett says:

    noncon – As I noted I have seen newly uniformed security on SkyTrain platforms of late. Also, have seen buses pulled over at a bus stop being entered by a very large security guard while another stands at the rear exit, checking those getting off. Also, took a quick look at the driver, who had a worried and surprised look on his face, as this will reflect on him also. This is, of course, an attempt (too late) to make people think that they are beginning to hear the voices of people, like many here.

  57. DBW says:

    Couple of questions:

    First for Larry. I have a friend, born and raised in the US, who came to Canada after serving in Vietnam, proudly claimed that he supported Nixon, loved Reagan and the Bushes, would have voted for McCain and Palin over Obama and has campaigned vigorously for the the local candidates of the BC Liberals, and the federal Conservatives. On the other hand, he supports gay marriage, has worked hard for and spoken highly of the Paul Martin foundation in its efforts to support our First Nations and would never – ever – speak condescendingly and disparagingly of our poor, especially children in poverty and would be one of the first to donate to a school breakfast program.

    Question: What should I do to smarten him up?

    And BMCQ @#45 On another thread and now again on this one you seem surprised that some First Nations have agreed to support pipelines wondering at what nefarious condition could possibly have changed their minds and how the MSM should be asking Chief Philips about … uh what exactly.

    Question: Given that Harper supports Enbridge and Horgan doesn’t and Clark does but with conditions could we please get the MSM to ask grand chief Harper why all them white folk can’t seem to agree?

    Just as the Prime Minister of Canada doesn’t speak for every single Canadian or every single constituency (don’t you just hate democracy) First Nations people will have a wide variety of opinions and differences depending on need, location, and circumstances. To think otherwise is absurd.

  58. e.a.f. says:

    using civil servants to advance a political agenda is not appropriate. that is what happened when the city police chief and VFD chief came out and announced they were in favour of a yes vote. As employees of the city they ought to keep their political comments to themselves.

    For the mayor to have used them in this manner casts doubt upon the ability of civic employees to do their jobs in an unbiased manner. All of them ought to resign.

  59. workforfun says:

    using civil servants to advance a political agenda is not appropriate.
    ———————————————————-
    That is exactly what Stalin and Hitler did in Europe and what Stephen Harper is doing to Canada now. It is happening in all politics these days – where the line of responsibility and integrity has blurred enough that no one sees what is happening any more.
    So much for the wisdom of the populace !

    It is nothing but a three ring circus (BC Liberal government) that manages to hood the people with their sleight of hand and rhetorical meaningless – or simply put, downright lies.

    While people vote to put these pathetic liars into power, we will keep on getting shafted every which way.

    Sorry about being so cynical, but lets call a spade a spade and act accordingly. Let us just simply fire the B****rds for good. There is no other way as they keep changed the rules as they go along, to keep themselves in power.

    Thanks

  60. Hawgwash says:

    jUSTjOE @ 56

    You knew the answer before you asked, but anyway…

    Since 1999, several Bills have been introduced in Ottawa, calling for the ban of bulk water removal for either domestic use or export. None have been passed.

    Gee, I wonder why.

    The moment we start to export water to the US, we will subsidize its extraction and production. At the same time, we will be compelled to pay the same price, as the US, for what we consume. We will pay for it twice.

    The soft wood lumber dispute, which began in 1982, is still a battle ground.
    Why should water be any different

  61. larry Bennett says:

    DBW – I’m sure your friend is a wonderful fellow, most of us on the right are! In fact, I wish we had more Americans coming across to our wonderful land. Believe it or not, I too give money to various charities, mostly on the Christian side of that scenario, because I am forced to pay for the lousy education system that is called “public”. I do not have to worry that the teachers will arrange a ‘secret’ abortion for my daughter, should she become pregnant, nor that my nephew should have to take a course in Sodomy 101. We already give billions of $ to the Natives through our taxes, and if you think that’s productive – think again. What to do to smarten him up? How about a good cuff upside the ear, telling him to grow up!
    God I love this blog, the answers pretty much fall into one’s lap, or else are provided by those who would seek vindication of their beliefs.

  62. BMCQ says:

    Work – 60

    Surely you are not comparing the Harper Conservatives to Stalin and Hitler. Are you?

    I could be wrong but The Harper Cons will actually increase their majority in the coming Fed. Election.

    I would suggest you keep Voting for the Person/Party you believe in but it is obvious to me that The Cons offer much more to the Canadian Electorate than People like that Campaigning Genius Mulcair and that well known Mensa Member JT!

    The two most important factors in The Con Platform are Crime and Punishment Bills and the control of Government Spending.

    No matter what you might think that is much what Canadians want to see and that is why they vote Conservative!

    Just watch!

    Hugh – 27

    The reason I was asking if you enjoyed to Ski ties into your Post pointing out about the high volume of Water used in Fracking.

    Are you aware that early in EACH AND EVERY Ski Season many Mountains in B.C. including Whistler/Blackcomb produce “MAN MADE SNOW” to cover the runs. This works well because it offers The Public a good adequate base that can be enhanced by natural Snowfall as the season goes on.

    Fact is all every one of those Mountains that has Snow Making Equipment will actually use Billions of Gallons of “Chrystal Clear Pure Water” in production of that very Snow you might Ski on!!! Imagine that!

    Perhaps you can let me know the answer to the following question.

    Just what is it that Powers those wonderful Snow Blowers that turn the water into Snow?

    Bean – 31

    Interesting piece.

    I agree that these type of numbers should be monitored. It would be advisable for Government Agencies to keep a watchful eye out.

    The one thing I would point out though is the fact that Fracking takes place every where today.

    Not all jurisdictions have experienced an increase in Earth Quakes. How would one account for that?

    e.a.f. – 52

    Imagine you and I agreeing again already so early in the year!

    I may not always agree with you but I always read your Posts with interest!

    Thanks!

    Larry – 51

    You make some very good points on the School Lunch issue Larry.

    I suppose some here consider you somewhat “Hard Line” on Social Issues.

    To the contrary I believe that all of the so-called “Social Initiatives” undertaken by various Government Agencies should be reviewed on a regular basis.

    Unfortunately I have experience with two family members that used School Lunch/Breakfast Programs to finance the purchase of other products used for their personal consumption.

    As far as I am concerned that is not acceptable.

    As a Society we seem to have lost all Accountability when it comes to accessing Government Services.

    I agree with e.a.f. that Children must be looked after at all costs. No doubt about it!!

    But please consider this.

    What if we were to make more that access Government Assistance more Accountable and in that process we were able to reduce fraud and abuse of any particular program?

    Would that efficiency then not make it possible to provide more funding for those most unfortunate that really deserve a helping hand?

    I applaud Larry for asking the “Tough Questions”!!!!

    DBW – 58

    Actually it was my Good Wife who just happens to have a Metis Father and is from Alberta that is very familiar with First Nations Treaties there that pointed the recently agreed to terms with the B.C. Government and First Nations here.

    I can safely assume I am sure that First Nations signed on to some sort of a Financial Contract with The B.C. Government and other Stake Holders.

    My Wife and I simply would like to point out that wow, that was easier than we thought.

    After the recent Supreme Court decision I for one thought Pipe Line Deals of any sort were dead.

    I still believe MSM are remiss by not asking the question of any and all First Nations Leaders!! That includes Chief Philip!!

    Non Con – 63

    I agree, absolutely DISGUSTING!!!!!

    Made me sick watching the so-called “First Responders being trotted out to pleased the case for those Disingenuous Bastards on the “Yes” Side!!!!

    I am embarrassed for them!!!!!.

  63. BMCQ says:

    DBW – 58

    I should probably add.

    Seems to me that those same First Nations were adamantly opposed to any Pipeline of any kind.

    I am happy that First Nations have appeared to change their mind on the Pipe Line issue.

    I am going to go out on a Limb here and speculate that those of working age see an opportunity of good paying jos with some sort of Benefit Package. An opportunity to provide for one’s family is important to all of us and I am pleased to see the change of attitude.

    I am also going to guess that First Nations have been able to negotiate some sort of a Financial Agreement that assures a regular amount of Funds that would be paid to the individual First Nations. Just a guess.

    Not necessarily nefarious, just asking a question. And again, it seems to me that it is the responsibility of MSM to also ask that same question of First Nations Leadership including The grand Chief!!!!

    Just doing my best to “Keep it Real”!!!!!

    Now a question or two for you.

    Why do you think First Nations changed their mind on The Pipe Line Agreement?

    Do you agree with their change of Heart?!!!!!

  64. workforfun says:

    BCMQ

    No, I am not comparing Harper to either of the two earlier dictators – just mentioning that the method imparting “partisan knowledge or propaganda” is so eerily similar. You can read what you like into my comments as it doesn’t change the facts one iota. Lastly, It is Harper that is comparing a woman’s head scarf to a religious group and it’s sociological meanings.
    Again, you fill in the blanks the way you want.
    All I am doing is “just saying” and let the people reading these comments make up their own minds.
    Cheers

  65. DBW says:

    Larry @62. So my right wing friend needs to grow up and be cuffed on the ear for showing compassion for groups of people that you don’t feel compassion for. Glad we cleared that up.

    As for your comment about secret abortions. If my daughter had an abortion without my knowledge, I would be more likely to question my relationship with her rather than go after someone she trusted more than me for advice. I would wonder why she felt so much fear or shame at my reaction to her predicament, why she couldn’t approach me. Fortunately I have a good relationship with my daughter and never had to worry about that. And I am more than certain you too have a good relationship with your daughter so why the worry on your part.

    As for Sodomy 101, I learned about sodomy when I finally figured out what the Sodomites were after when the angels visited Lot and the villagers turned down Lot’s sacrificial offer of his daughters if they would leave the angels alone. I am sure I am a much better person as a result.

    BMCQ @64 Do you really care what I think motivated some First Nations to support pipelines (and are we talking gas pipelines of which there are many supporters or oil pipelines of which there are fewer) and do you really care how I feel about said support?

    First Nations people have the right to negotiate what they feel is in their best interests. And those interests vary from person to person and from group to group just as they do with any other community.

    You seem surprised that First Nations people are not all speaking as one. People in my town don’t speak as one and my town doesn’t always agree with the community down the road. It is not unusual for the Vancouver ridings to be represented by all three federal parties. In fact we have multiple political parties around the country with a wide range of viewpoints and even within parties there is disagreement.

    All I can say is that if one group of First Nations has negotiated a deal that helps them, that they figure the benefits will outweigh the risks, then good for them. If it involves a pipeline that I support (e.g. gas) then even better for them. If it involves a pipeline that I oppose, it will just make it harder for my side to win but I can’t begrudge them making the effort to improve their circumstances.

  66. R says:

    Oil down to 47 a barrel
    Capacity storage limit reach est June 2015

  67. workforfun says:

    BMCQ – another Harperite Troll no doubt. Of course, no one else is ever right !

  68. BMCQ says:

    DBW – 66

    Of course I care why several FN changed their mind’s on supporting Oil Pipe Lines from Alberta through B.C.!

    I am/was simply interested in knowing why such a sudden reverse on their part. From virtually every First Nations standing together as one against Pipe Lines to all of a sudden signing on to support.

    Please remember I was referring to First nations, not to individual members.

    To me that is a MAJOR News Story and MSM should be Reporting every word!!

    I cannot be the only one that wonders why they let that get by without asking the question!!

    I am quite sure there would be a difference to the Official Position of a First Nations as opposed to an individual Band member.

    You are the one that mentioned Democracy.

    You asked me a question which I answered. I quite simply then asked you a question.

    If that is a problem, so be it.

  69. BMCQ says:

    Off Topic but……….

    I see where Puget Sound Radio has today Posted PPM Radio Ratings for the most recent Rating Period.

    Not sure really how to read them but it appears CKNW is trending DOWN.

    Could/Can H.O. or someone else here translate for the uninitiated.

    Thank you

  70. nonconfidencevote says:

    @#70 BMCQ

    CKNW trending down? Quelle surprise
    Oh the horror, I guess they should have punted Bill Good BEFORE they lost all their listeners.
    Not to worry, They’ll just hire some more BCIT graduates and pat themselves on the back for saving money.
    Would the last advertiser to dump ‘NW please turn out the lights?

    (Response: I was thinking of doing a blog on NW ratings falling…but have already done that several times. It’s news when a station drops from First to second but not sure it’s even in commentary play anymore when it continues to slide, say, from 10th to 11th etc. Interesting though for journalism students and pundits as an example of what I see as lousy management destroying a top rated station… by chiseling away at the quality of its news coverage and forgetting the big bucks are in offering well-experienced, knowledgeable entertaining and fun hosts …. not just mostly shallow beginners, soft topic purveyors of puffery and establishment couriers of one-sided conservative propagandists. h.o)

  71. larry Bennett says:

    DBW – Are you not suggesting that the Sodomites were after the “angels” because they were perceived as being beautiful young males, and the Sodomites being .. well, Sodomites, they were not interested in Lot’s daughters, no matter how beautiful they might be? I am confused, in what way are you a much better person, and because of what?
    Abortion: The young man seeks his sport among women who have freed themselves from the “oppression” of the old morality! So then, are you saying you have no problem with teachers involving your child in something so devastating as aborting her own child – or not?
    “First Nations have the right to negotiate what they feel is in their own best interests” Which means what? That they don’t have the right to the billions of dollars that are given to their Chiefs by Canadian taxpayers and we, have no right to complain about how those monies be dispersed. (Ergo, they have no right to bitch).

  72. Jay Jones says:

    I see BC’s economy booming in the not to distant future, but only because of the U.S.’s doing so.

  73. DBW says:

    BMCQ, I don’t think you are catching my drift especially when you think you answered my question when in fact you didn’t. My question was

    “Given that Harper supports Enbridge and Horgan doesn’t and Clark does but with conditions could we please get the MSM to ask grand chief Harper why all them white folk can’t seem to agree?”

    You seem to be surprised that First Nations may have differing opinions or objectives. Why? You seem to think it odd that First Nations might change their mind? Why?

    What makes them so different from the rest of us that they can’t have differing objectives and the right to change their mind. That is my whole point. Period.

    Now, asking me what I think is their reasoning is pointless for two reasons. One, I am no expert especially when I am not of First Nations descent and two you have given no specifics. I still don’t know if you are referring to the First Nations who are in support of LNG pipelines of which there are many more than those who support oil pipelines.

    It would be helpful if you sent a link that talks about a specific First Nations group that now supports pipelines when it didn’t earlier. Otherwise I can only guess that if they do in fact support a pipeline it is because their concerns about one or more of this partial list have been addressed: the environment, jobs, monetary payments, educational opportunities, sovereignty.

    But to be honest, I think you are just taking delight at what you perceive as a split in the ranks of First Nations people. Personally I don’t see it that way. Just like the citizens of Vancouver may have different objectives than the people of Terrace or Williams Lake or Creston so too will the First Nations people in various parts of the province have different objectives for their individual regions.

    If that is in fact the case, I can’t see the problem and I find it curious that you would think the media should be making a big deal out of it.

  74. BMCQ says:

    Work – 60 – 68

    Thank you for the kind words!!

    So let me get this correct.

    Because I disagree with you and actually have an opinion contrary to yours I am a “Troll”?

    Look Work, other than myself there are only 3 or perhaps 4 that Post on The H.O. Blog that might be considered more or less as Conservative thinkers. The vast majority of the rest could be categorized as Left of Centre in varying degrees.

    Do you feel threatened?

    Should we not be allowed to voice an opinion, take part in the Argument, discussion, Debate?

    Would this Blog be improved if the more Conservative types here just went away and there was no push-back, no other opinion other than yours?

    You mention Stalin and others that shall remain nameless back in your Post – 60.

    Was it not Stalin and now Putin, and even ISIS, that much like you my friend that wanted/want to shut down and silence all opposition?

    How much sense does that really make?

    Would you please take a moment and clarify what you really mean by the “Troll” Rant.

    I will be away for a day or two but upon my return I will look forward with great anticipation to the gem of a response you come up with.

  75. nonconfidencevote says:

    Hmmmm.
    Oil storage world wide is now at 85-90%.
    Apparently, oil tankers are being used as oil storage facilities to take advantage of the cheap gooey stuff.
    Oil consumption drops in the warmer months…..
    Cheaper oil by May? Do I hear $20 a barrel?
    The price of which will NEVER be reflected at the Vancouver gas pumps because we have Transit to pay for…… raise them taxes……its the Best Place on Earth so you have to pay and pay and pay for the “prviledge” of living here.

  76. DBW says:

    larry, sometimes I forget that people on blogs don’t know my quirks like my friends do. I was being ironic when I suggested that I was a better person because I learned about sodomy from a Bible story rather than from, say, a classroom. Anal sex is a reality. We all learned about it at some point.

    You and I simply disagree on where that knowledge will be gained.

    As for abortion, again, we disagree on the fundamental issue of choice. But given that choice is available, I am not opposed to a child going to a teacher/counsellor, someone they truly trust and seeking advice on this life-changing predicament. Hopefully that teacher would encourage the girl to talk to her parents or her doctor or her minister or a public health nurse.

    And yes larry I would be furious if the teacher dragged the girl to an abortion clinic, strapped her down, and yanked out the fetus herself. But that is just not happening.

    I am sure your children never faced an unwanted pregnancy. And if they did I am equally sure that they would have gone to you and your wife for advice. I know that would have been the case with my children. But not every child has parents who they can trust so they are going to go elsewhere including friends and yes teachers.

    And we also disagree on First Nations. I am not saying that every penny spent on First Nations people has been successful. I think much of the problem facing First Nations people has been the foot dragging on the part of government to solve the problem. Maybe it has been easier to just buy them off. Who knows.

    My whole point with my discussion with BMCQ is that First Nations people from various parts of the province/country who now have the right to negotiate certain activities on their traditional land, will not have exactly the same objectives as every other First Nations community around the province/country. He seems surprised at that while I am not. He seems to be suggesting that every First Nations community should act, react, think, dream like every other First Nations community. And he seems to think those differences are worthy of a media investigation. I am just trying to clarify why he feels that way.

    Thanks for listening.

  77. larry Bennett says:

    DBW – ” … anal sex is a reality”. Yes and fortunately, it has yet to lead to the homicide of a child, especially as I would define it, when the opposite gametes conjoin and are the cause of life AND the ensoulment of same.
    On the killing of this creature we are definitely disagreed as you point out, you are not ‘opposed’ to that particular procedure, but I am, very much so, and
    am not happy that I should be made to fund such a disgustingly utile destruction of human life. By the way, I haven’t children, and yet, and yet … I am appalled at such butchery!

  78. Kathleen says:

    are you serious about our natural gas? do you really believe that selling our gas reserves is a good thing? and that it is a forever thing? 150 years is nothing. why not save it for us? are you getting paid for these ads? I am really disappointed in your sell out.

    (Response: Did you read my post???? My whole point was not to argue the pros and cons of selling natural gas now …but to point out that the Premier/Liberals had been WRONG or even LIED when they made a BIG DEAL of promising THREE LNG plants, including ONE to open this year…all bringing BILLIONS in cash for the voters. The whole piece was about how she made FALSE PROMISES to the voters that helped get her elected … and we should NOT let that slide. Clearly your bias against selling LNG is so mind-numbing…you missed the ENTIRE point behind the posting. h.o)

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