BIG SISTER BONNIE’s Total BAN on Home Visits Goes TOO Far

It’s too much! BC is NOT Cuba, China or Venezuela … and Dr. Bonnie Henry, and Big Brother Adrian Dix and Big Brother John Horgan’s latest dictates aimed at controlling the Coronavirus exceed reason, reasonability and our human rights..

Henry Saturday announced new rules BANNING any PRIVATE social gatherings of any size in PRIVATE HOMES with anyone not already living with your immediate household in the Lower Mainland.

According to the Order, NO visitors in ANYONE’s private home, not even ONE son or daughter or friend allowed to drop over to visit or help. Even if they wear masks, distance while visiting.

For anyone with mobility challenges, especially elderly couples or singles, already struggling with isolation, unable to walk far, having Covid fears of using taxis or buses, this is solitary confinement! Cruel and unusual punishment!

Especially when Big Brother and Big Sister ORDER them not to even allow ONE or TWO people now from their already small personal bubble inside their PRIVATE home!

And yet, those who can manage to get out CAN still meet in restaurants, in bars, where people sit across tables much closer to each other than in a living room … in groups up to six …with other groups of strangers nearby.

In fact, think about it: the NEW rule actually makes things MORE dangerous. It encourages those who are mobile, instead of having one or two friends in for tea/lunch to go out to socialize! And drive, take taxis, buses to restaurants, cafes, other inside venues … surely more vulnerable than having ONE or TWO people visit in your own home!!!!

Ridiculous!

This is Big Brother … or should I say Big Sister … over-reach!

I believe it VIOLATES the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms which declares and enshrines:

” 2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;

(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;

(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and

(d) freedom of association.”

Dr. Henry’s new Orders violate both 2 (b) and 2 (c).

NO government and NO government agency, I believe, has the right to tell any Canadian they cannot have ANYONE in their PRIVATE home if they meet all the other public health rules, such as mask-wearing, self-distancing, hand-washing and don’t violate other laws/bylaws, such as noise, disturbances etc.

This is government gone too far!

Where the hell were BC’s media Saturday in raising tough questions about Dr. Henry and Brother Dix’s arbitrary imposition of such selective dictatorial controls/restrictions?????

Too many reporters, especially at the Legislature, are being too soft, too friendly in just delivering Dr. Henry’s and the NDP government’s messages/rules and dictates TO the public, instead of the other way round, representing the public TO the politicians and public officials …. which should be their REAL role!!

Dr. Henry’s new orders also impose several other restrictions on Lower Mainlanders when it comes to activities/ travel within and outside the region.

You can read full details here: https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/bc-news/bc-announces-567-new-cases-of-covid-19-saturday-increasing-regional-restrictions-for-two-weeks-2859897

Dr. Henry says the new rules will only be “temporary” … in effect for for two weeks.

Let’s keep it real: that may not be the case … there is NOTHING to stop Henry from extending the private home-visit ban, especially if people meekly just go along with this violation of our Charter rights.

NO government or officials, in a democratic country, should be permitted to TOTALLY BAN citizens from having ANY visitors in our PRIVATE homes!!! Not even ONE? or TWO?

Really? Is that a true threat to public health … or government just over-reaching, invading and controlling PRIVATE spaces, because it thinks it can?

Castro, Xi and Maduro would approve … but WE must not!

We’re not talking large gatherings here, parties or celebrations: the latest BAN attempt is on ANY visitor, even your closest relative or friend. TOO much!

I get it. The virus must be stopped, or at least contained as much as possible until and even after a vaccine is made available.

I get it. The number of cases in the Lower Mainland, upwards of 550 a day recently, are scary and must be cut.

I get it. Activities and venues that are contributing to the rising rates need more and better control … some may warrant even closure.

But the great initial success in fighting the virus in BC was through public co-operation, shutdown of public places; curbing of public activities.

NOT invading and interfering in people’s private lives in their private homes, especially where they are willingly following Dr. Henry’s own guidelines and policies on masks, self-distancing, hand-washing.

Denying people even ONE or TWO visitors, from their own already limited bubbles, in their own homes goes too far!

There have already been studies showing how isolation and loneliness is hurting too many people too hard … especially singles and seniors living alone.

To order anyone, but especially singles and seniors, NOT to have even ONE or TWO family members or close friends drop by and visit … even if they wear masks, wash their hands and self-distance … is beyond reason.

That will only make things even worse, because public co-operation and compliance is a pre-requisite for any societal rules to work.

And the latest ban exceeds the social and personal saturation point norms: it will just increase social isolation, disrespect and disobedience when it comes to Covid-fighting efforts.

Dr. Henry MUST change this order to be more realistic, more credible and therefore more effective.

Or most will just ignore it.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts to all new postings on this BC-based Blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam …just alerts to new topics up for discussion.)

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38 Responses to BIG SISTER BONNIE’s Total BAN on Home Visits Goes TOO Far

  1. hawgwash says:

    Very little shocks or surprises me, but I am stunned by this (frightening?) column.

    Harvey, your blogs of late have become less and less rational and more and more into the print anything to advance fear, realm. This is sensationalism at its finest.

    Today’s blog is incredibly out of touch, sloppy and irresponsible.

    Try the truth: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/emergency-preparedness-response-recovery/covid-19-provincial-support/lower-mainland?bcgovtm=20200506_GCPE_AM_COVID_11_NOTIFICATION_BCGOVNEWS_BCGOV_EN_BC__NOTIFICATION#pho-order

    This is a two week reset, in two health regions, not a forever, province wide lock down.

    Citing Cuba, China and Venezuela, when these actions more resemble Australia is fear mongering and beneath you. Or once was.

    (Response: I notice you don’t refute any of the FACTS I cited: how these new rules will take away personal rights and impact so many tens of thousands of elderly, and singles and mobility challenged … who have ONE or TWO family or friends visit, without a SINGLE stich of evidence they are the cause of the recent rise in Covid cases. In fact, it’s the opposite: large gatherings are the problem … private and public. This is just BIG BROTHER (BIG SISTER) Socialist-style over-reach into people’s private homes and lives, even if you don’t like it being called that. h.o)

  2. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    As many know my wife is not that well, senior services and home support in the fraser health has really been affected , we have a friend who is not well either i drive her to her appointments , shop for her , take her service dog for walks .she is part of my bubble of three yet starting today i will be breaking a health order .

    however i can sit in a restaurant, go to a bar , go shopping , etc

    i will not stop
    it is absurd so now i will be breaking health orders , and i know that by doing so my wife and our friend will be cared for , the dog looked after and all feel loved and emotionally supported

    so if you want to fine me for doing this i will be at the pub 3 seat down talking to a total stranger wont be the first virus picked up in a bar.

    (Response: Thanks, Harry. Please tell your wife many of us do think of her and wish her well. Your case is exactly one of those that concern me: how can the government say YOU cannot visit anyone or have anyone visit you in your private home … not even ONE or TWO people. BUT you can go out and circulate in restaurants, public venues where dozens of people are brushing by, talking, laughing, using common toilet facilities, riding in cars together or in taxis or in buses to get there, where you are all much more vulnerable to the virus!! It’s absolutely ridiculous. They used to implore us in the warm weather to stay home: now Big Brother and Big Sister are forcing us to go out in the cold weather, so most of us will then have to meet inside public venues … much more dangerous than our own private home. It’s NUTS!!! h.o)

  3. Tim W says:

    Harvey, I totally get and see the merit in your arguments on personal rights and freedoms and that those are sacred, but IMO, these restrictions don’t go far enough, long enough or encompassing the province as it absolutely must. Where is the mask mandate? A simple way to curtail community spread. In each outing, I count roughly 50 % compliance. Not nearly good enough. To me this is where Henry’s effectiveness is starting to break down. She’s waffling and tip toeing. Nasty outbreaks are happening everywhere (a Dawson Creek Long Term Care Facility has now an outbreak which could potentially kill most of its residents and put its severely short staffing situation in serious jeopardy). The rest of Canada too, is on the same trajectory. Other regions have handled the pandemic well but with serious public health measures not 1/2 measures that once lifted, go back to uncontrolled community spread. See New Zealand, Taiwan, Viet Nam etc. The US is entirely different in that with the exception of a few states, the country is headed for catastrophic loss of life and long term health effects.

    We must put public health above all else (especially of all things, politics) if we ever want to get out of this mess. A vaccine, well helpful, is only as effective as those who take it and the ever growing anti science movement will ensure that the virus continues to spread.

    (Response: You touch on a key failing of the current fight against Covid: inconsistency. Public Health officials would do far better in containing and defeating the spread of Covid IF they had gone went after the real and largest sources of the spread: large gatherings on the beaches in the summer (notice they closed the parking lots to keep motorists and handicapped away, but thousands of people were still allowed to gather regularly if they got there on foot or by bike; continuing partying by groups in bars; and large celebrations at home venues; and calling out those communities (ethnic, religious, societal) that are widely ignoring the rules. Going after singles or couples already with relatively isolated lives … cutting them off COMPLETELY from ANY social contact in their homes … not even a SINGLE family member or friend … is just unfairly targeting low-hanging fruit … and making life even lonelier and tougher for those already suffering in this pandemic. Dr Henry should MODIFY her Order to allow UP TO TWO VISITORS in ay household … and anyone who thinks that’s excessive is just cruel and insensitive. h.o)

  4. DBW says:

    Harvey, I agree with Hawgwash.

    You said you wanted him to refute some of your facts. Here…

    “Henry said that it may be possible for people who live alone to visit with, and be included in, the “bubble” of close family members in another home.”

    https://www.vicnews.com/news/lower-mainland-residents-face-new-restrictions-after-another-567-new-covid-19-cases-reported-in-b-c/

    I hope Harry continues to support his friend and I doubt that anybody will question him especially Dr. Henry or Adrian Dix.

    (Response: That’s NOT what her Order says … here it is again: “Socialize only with those in your immediate household. No gatherings of any size. Do not invite friends or family to your household”. It’s VERY clear:” NO gatherings of ANY size.” And “Socialize only with those in your immediate household”. Laws and Orders don’t include wording like “It may be possible…” and how in the world can anyone justify a Rule that says you can’t have someone into your home …but you can visit someone else’s home. Think about that …. that is the ultimate Catch 22 government gobbledygook … impossible to fulfill without at least ONE person violating the Order! LOL! h.o)

  5. hawgwash says:

    Your troubling response to me: ”I notice you don’t refute any of the FACTS I cited: how these new rules will take away personal rights and impact so many tens of thousands of elderly, and singles and mobility challenged …”

    What you really said: “To order anyone, but especially singles and seniors, NOT to have even ONE or TWO family members or close friends drop by and visit … even if they wear masks, wash their hands and self-distance … is beyond reason,” is opinion with a twist and not fact at all.

    Here for your benefit is what Dr. Henry said and how she addressed those very people you are trying to stir up.
    https://youtu.be/G5HwRHarZ9Y?t=381

    If you can’t be bothered to watch and listen to the full video, here is the specific question and answer to refute your misinformation on those living alone.
    https://youtu.be/G5HwRHarZ9Y?t=2991

    Can you tell I’m angry? I am and actually believe Dr. Henry is being and has been too soft. For starters, she should have also “asked in the strongest of terms” that people stay away from my island.

    (Response: Here’s the Order … read it and weep: “Socialize only with those in your immediate household. No gatherings of any size. Do not invite friends or family to your household.” I don’t make this stuff up! How soon you’ve forgotten that, only months ago, when the weather was getting nice, Dr. Henry, Adrian Dix, Prime Minister Trudeau PLEADED with us all to stay home, keep our social circle very small. NOW, when it’s turning cold, wet, slippery … very hard on tens of thousands older people, blind and physically challenged, she issues an Order that pushes people OUT of their homes, if they don’t want to spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week totally alone, to into taxis and buses to get to indoor venues, with lots of people, closed windows … increasing substantially the dangers they face. It’s crazy …and although Dr. Henry has generally done good work, THIS is a ridiculous overstep and violation of our rights in our own homes. h.o)

  6. D. M. Johnston says:

    The real story is deep and dark and shows that the NDP are deeply racist, against the ordinary people.

    The problem in Fraser Health is that it has a large South Asian community where large family gatherings are important for wedding, funerals or other important social events.

    Wedding can go as high as 500 or more guests and here lies the problem, massive social gatherings and an aerosol spread disease.

    Now, at the beginning of Sept. we held a wedding in our back yard for my wife’s nephew. It was all outside, chairs 2 metres apart, a limit of 40 guests, 8 tables, and with 2 nieces being nurses, every guest entering the back yard had all their particulars taken down and their temperature taken twice and recorded.

    This caused some family grief but it was do as we say or no wedding.

    There was no spread.

    Now an associate of my wife (Dental profession), who is south Asian, recounted a family wedding in Surrey. 4 backyards were rented, all packed with 50 people per back yard and in fact over 300 people were in attendance, no masks, no protocols, nothing. The lady turned around and went home, telling her uncle he was playing with fire, which did not help her family relations.

    This party, I have been told now has over 50 people sick with covid and possible one death contributed. The lady in question, just being there for less than 5 minutes had to quarantine for 2 weeks!

    The NDP and Bonnie Henry refuse to give Covid infections numbers for municipalities (Delta has three regions alone, North Delta, Ladner and Tsawwassen) nor for various communities within.

    Halloween: Remember that infamous mini Granville St. riot with the White Land Rover, with people hanging off it, well look carefully and one sees south Asian, many with turbans, involved.

    We also should compare Richmond with Surrey, where Richmond has a large Chinese/Asian community who mask up and obey the rules and regulations and Surrey with a large south Asian community where the regulations seem to have been flaunted. From what I have read, the infection rate in Richmond is far below that of Surrey.

    The NDP and the bureaucracy will not directly deal with the real problems, for fear it will lose them a lot of voter support in the future, but the singular fact remains, the NDP are racist, by tarring everyone with the same brush and making those who have followed the rules pay the same penalty for those who don’t.

    Dix and his cadre of no-nothings had better start being honest and deal with the real problems, because in 4 years time, they may pay the price.

    As for Fraser health, I absolutely do not have any confidence in that organization.

    My little bubble consists with one friend and wife and we take turns visiting, and we will continue, if they wish too.

    Look, covid is nasty, my son graduated in 2020 from high school and basically there was no support, nothing from the province and in effect they have been thrown under the bus.

    The lost year.

    The NDP have done nothing to help this kids, many with no jobs, rotting in boredom. It has been reported that 3 suicides have happened just in our area but this is very hush hush by politicians, lest they get a little blame.

    Also, it must be worth noting that this vast increase in numbers, came at the very same time that Horgan held his snap election, yet I do not see any blame being directed at him or the party. In my book, there is blood on their hands for an electoral win.

    Strong stuff I know, controversial, I know, and if the NDP want to really place the blame, just look into the mirror.

    (Response: The worst of it is that those who are the problem won’t pay an iota of attention to Dr. Bonnie’s latest “Order”.
    Instead, the ones hurt most by Dr Henry’s dumb over-reach (on this occasion) are those who are NOT the problem: law-abiding seniors or handicapped, blind living alone or in couples in their homes or apartments can’t even have ONE visitor!!! Or face HUGE fines! Their children … who are by far no longer children or youthful partiers …. aren’t even allowed to drop over for coffee …even if they sit across the room??? This is government gone mad: excessive BIG BROTHER (BIG SISTER?) … bullying. Dr Henry MUST amend he Order immediately to be realistic …or face massive disobedience … which will absolutely start a very slippery slide. h.o)

  7. hawgwash says:

    The ministry also clarified what it meant by “household.”
    “These would be the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. These would be people who are part of your regular routine so household members, immediate family, a close friend or the people you have regular close contact with (for example a co-parent who lives outside the household),” said the statement.

    That is exactly how I understood Dr. Henry’s briefing, which I actually paid attention to on Saturday, but she is such an easy target for social media types who obviously know more than she does.

    (Response: In any Court, a published Order TOTALLY supersedes a Press Release. Again, here is EXACTLY what Dr Henry’s Order says “Social interactions and gatherings: Socialize only with those in your immediate household. No gatherings of any size. Do not invite friends or family to your household.” And here is Webster’s Dictionery definition of HOUSEHOLD: those who dwell under the same roof and compose a family, also : a social unit composed of those living together in the same dwelling.” It’s so clear even bureaucrats should be able to understand it does NOT include the extra wide interpretation you cite. The Order, which is very clear, must be amended if the government wants ANY of the provisions you cite to apply. How incompetent are Health Officials then …. that they would come up with this Order that VERY CLEARLY says one thing but then wiggle around with a press statement stating the opposite. Geez! h.o)

  8. hawgwash says:

    D. M. Johnston, being “against the ordinary people’ is not racist, however singling out South Asians and turban wearers, four times in one comment, is a hell of a lot closer, if not crossing into that lane.

  9. Marge says:

    As someone who has followed all the COVID rules I am one of those getting extremely frustrated with those who haven’t. Allowing protestors during a pandemic, the report from Mr. Johnston about weddings, all of these just make me furious.

    I have not been able to see my daughter and my grandkids in Washington state for months – not since last February to be exact. Doing ZOOM or ECHOSHOW is not the same as being able to hug them and talk to them in person. One of my grandchildren is a special needs child and for her to get COVID would be devastating to say the least. I have kept to the rules – why haven’t others?

    And why isn’t the government fining those people who have the big parties, the big weddings, the Granville Hallowe’en thing? If they got $5000 – $10000 fines each, I am sure that would be a good deterrent. Attach it to their drivers’ licenses or CERB or whatever hurts most. Instead our government does nothing except to punish those of us who do keep the rules and the numbers grow.

    I am also working from home virtually so that also increases the loneliness. I would love to have a friend or two over just for a break in the endless boredom. I have gone to restaurants with friends but isn’t that worse as you are increasing your social bubble?

    I think if the government actually did something “real”, this could be under control. Fines and punishments must be applied so the rest of us can get back to some kind of normal in our lives.

    (Response: It looks like the NDP government is afraid to take on the largest transgressors, issue dozens of fines, prosecute with charges etc. the rowdy crowds; any bars that overcrowd; the people who hold huge home gatherings. Instead, with this latest Order by Dr Henry, they’re going after couples, singles and seniors, further increasing their isolation and loneliness burden. And they get away with it because the media have lost their sense of outrage. Maybe they’ll wake up Monday and realize hw unjust and discriminatory Dr Henry’s latest Order is … to the point of violating people’s Charter right to assemble even if they limit the numbers, follow self distancing rules and are in their own home. h.o)

  10. e.a.f. says:

    I’m fine with Dr. Henry’s and Cabinet Minister Dix’s new edicts. We saw a large increase in COVID cases in the Fraser Valley and Vancouver health districts. People were not following the rules. this is what happens. the new edicts to not apply to areas where we don’t have these increases.

    One dance school had a bunch of cases and then they had to deal with 11 public schools. that stuff spreads and I for one don’t want to die from this disease. If others can’t follow the rules you get sent to your room or house. Once the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver get it, then perhaps the edict will be lifted.

    what happens with an increase in COIVD is the hospitals get clogged. Now Harvey you’ve had a heart attack in the past. You would not be happy if you had another one and they couldn’t help you fast enough because the hospital was clogged with COVID cases would you? My blood pump doesn’t function at optium level and my lungs “are consistent some with some one my age and past life style”. If I have a “jammer” I don’t want to have to die because some idiot couldn’t/wouldn’t follow the rules.

    Dr. Henry was clear, this new increase was coming from the food industry, retail and car dealerships, gyms, etc. So either these businesses clean up their act or they are out of business. She and others know about what has been happening in private homes and yards. It can not go on. Now that she has issued the edict you can bet there is going to be a lot of “rat out the neighbours and relatives”. Good.

    Living on Vancouver Island we have 4 new cases. We’re doing fine. We’re not subject to the edict. People aren’t attending funerals or weddings, etc or having large house parties, which is a problem on the lower mainland.

    Perhaps I’m a tad more O.K. with the edict because the sibling’s Dr. has advised them, if they get COIVD they are dead. The sibling only goes out for drives and to medical appointments if necessary, oh a flu shot. We either had groceries delivered by Save On Foods or I’ve been doing the grocery shopping for the past couple of months. We’ve learnt to live with this all.

    No one has the right to end some one other’s life because they want to go to a wedding, funeral, not wear their mask, not keep their place of business anti septically clean. We have flu season upon us. Some times you can’t tell the difference between COVID and the flu when it starts. Some people won’t even go out until they’re sure they are just having an allergy kick in. Then we have others who think nothing of a big drunken party. We saw that at Halloween in downtown Vancouver. Those weren’t all people from Vancouver.

    The restrictions which apply to homes is because people have been getting around the rules for public gatherings by having them at their homes. When the owners of the banquet halls complained about the rules, one of the things they kept mentioning was people were now having gatherings at their homes and not keeping within the guidelines. they were quite correct. Have a drive through some areas of the lower mainland and you’ll see the party tents up in yards. They can hold well over 50 people and then add all those in the house, yes, no masks, no social distancing. Dr. Henry knows what she is doing. Phone a few banquet hall owners, they’ll explain where their business went, into people’s private homes. Not too long ago a wedding organizer, who was playing by the social distancing rules, was shown in a venue on the news. Its expense to have events in this type of setting and people are having them at home. People may come to the event without their masks, have COVID, give it to half the people there and then it spreads. In Ontario one wedding resulted in 44 cases of COVID a couple of weeks ago. then it spread into the community. There were approx. a 100 at the wedding. Dr. Henry and Minister Dix don’t want that happening here. We are headed into the Hannukka, Christmas and Dhaliwal season, not to mention New Years. At home parties will be going full blast and COVID will have a great time. No thanks. We don’t need our hospitals clogged with cases which could have been avoided. Yes, we have a Constitution, but we also have health issues which can kill and those they will kill first are all of us aging baby boomers. The disease will also create “long haulers” and some of those “long haulers” will be children. if Dr. Henry and Cabinet Minister Dix are trying to ensure that doesn’t happen, I’m good with it.

    The Constitution may be there, but some of us feel we have the right to keep alive and that supercedes a lot of other stuff.

    (Response: You’re right: people were not following the rules. I have no problem with reasonable and proper restrictions in the name of public health concerns and especially in fighting Covid. However, singling out and banning people from having even one or two visitors into their homes, under threat of fines and charges, when thousands of party goers, over crowded bars, and large family celebrations take place almost with impunity is just plain unfair, unjust and excessive. h.o)

  11. NVG says:

    I think you’ve missed the point of THEIR orders Harvey.

    You haven’t written anything, lately, on the ‘rights’ of Health Care Workers.

    They’re the ones who are on the front line.

    They’re the only ones who have the ability to save your life, our lives.

    I would suggest that at 7:00pm, tonight, and every night, you give a shout out, make some noise, and let those that HAVE to leave their homes, their families, to save lives, including yours. They’ll treat you for what ails you, whether its Covid-19 or hypertension.

    Health Care Workers. Seven O’clock sharp. For just ONE MINUTE

    You might want to check out what Washington State readers are writing in response to your Post: https://www.pugetsoundradio.com/2020/11/08/dr-henry-goes-too-far-harvey-oberfeld/

    They’ve just finished dealing with Trump’s hands-off approach on Covid-19 failure to protect citizens, their country, their State and they certainly don’t want to get it from a British Columbian who accuses Dr. Bonnie Henry as being a big sister.

    Big Sister? You mean like Kamala Harris?

  12. DBW says:

    NHL referees are conspiring against Canadian teams!
    Fascist Ayatollahs are running the Parks Board!
    Bonnie Henry is Orwellian!
    Rudy Guiliani has hacked Keeping It Real!

    I really don’t know what you are trying to accomplish with this post Harvey.

    You ignored Hawgwash and I when we pointed out Dr. Henry’s clarification from yesterday. And now you are ignoring the written clarification that Hawgwash pointed out from today. Here is an article from one of the reporters who I guess is doing the job you don’t think they are doing.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/7450328/lower-mainland-covid-order-clarified/

    Nobody is going to stop somebody from going to visit his ageing mother or her disabled son or a lonely/needy neighbour. NOBODY

    We can criticize Dr. Henry for being too soft or too lenient but she is balancing a fine line. If she comes down heavily we will end up with protests. If she is too lenient the virus spreads. What I like about her approach is the calm way she has encouraged us to behave like decent caring human beings. Sadly some of us aren’t.

    Right now contact tracing tells us that spin classes and dance studios and social gatherings in our homes are the spreaders of the virus. So in the two regions of the province where the numbers are concerning she has put in restrictions for two weeks. She has told us to smarten up. So that the most vulnerable like the seniors and disabled that you seem to be defending WON’T CATCH IT AND DIE.

    Seriously Harvey, you are feeding the anti-masker conspiracies and that isn’t helpful.

    (Response: You can’t really expect British Columbians charged in in Court with violating a Public Health Officers Official Order to quote “Hawgwash says” or “CBC News” explained or “Global News quoted” …. with “an (unnamed) spokesperson for the Ministry of Health clarified”. Geez! This Covid is serious stuff … and the government (including the Public Health Officer) have to get it RIGHT and CLEAR when they hold News Conferences, announce very serious NEW Rules/Restrictions that CLEARLY say “No gatherings of any size. Do not invite friends or family to your household.”. The Order is VERY clear … and if the NDP and/or the Public Heralth Officer are now feeling the heat, then CHANGE THE ORDER!!! You can’t just say, Well it says one thing, but we mean another!!! I doubt many of you defending this glaring screwup (if it IS a screwup?) if it was done by Christy Clark’s Liberal government/Health Minister! h.o)

  13. Gilbert says:

    Many here are so blindly partisan that they can’t admit that Dr. Henry’s order is excessive. She needs to exercise her authority carefully and make sure that her ban does not go against reason and human rights, points which were beautifully addressed in this post.

    The last thing we need is a socialist government that becomes bigger and bigger and intrudes into more into our personal lives. The only thing missing is a camera installed by our government in everyone’s home! Let’s use common sense.

    (Response: You’re absolutely correct! You’re assessment sums it up perfectly: ” Dr. Henry’s order is excessive. She needs to exercise her authority carefully and make sure that her ban does not go against reason and human rights, points which were beautifully addressed in this post.” Readers of this Blog would know I have supported most of the government and Dr Henry’s handling of Covid …and the early figures supported that effort. However, something has gone wrong …and now, instead of going after the REAL culprits and fining/charging and penalizing them, they’re attacking those who have been LEAST responsible for the uptick: hard working couples, singles and seniors who should be able to stay home, and have one or two family and friends over for visits. Not issue an ORDER saying that’s not allowed at all! That’s what the Order says … it MUST BE AMENDED … to conform to the Canadian Charter and to specifically state small visits ARE allowed, if reasonably limited. And then go after the partiers who invite 10, 20 or 50 to their parties!! Even if they say they’re celebrating a Special Family Event or some Festival! h.o)

  14. e.a.f. says:

    C.B.C. has an interesting article up about the spread of COVID. It advises that studies are showing the virus can spread in poorly ventilated in door spaces. Homes are usually poorly ventilated spaces.

    I recall when the virus first hit China, they had evidence back then the virus could be spread in doors in malls, they had one case where the two people involved were on different floors.

    Some of the commenters don’t believe the Canadian study results, others do. Me, I’m not taking any chances. As I’ve said, with AIDS, we could stop taking blood products, not share needles, use condoms, but with COVID, there isn’t a condom…………..

    As winter comes and things start to get worse, I’ll add a face shield to my mask. I really don’t want to die from COVID. Get hit by a truck, that’s one thing, dying of COVID is not a fun way to go.

  15. NVG says:

    Interesting.

    Screwup? and it WAS done by Christy Clark’s Liberal government/Health Minister!

    Roderick MacIsaac sat in a room with government investigators for hours as they peppered him with questions. Fourteen times over 90 minutes, the soft-spoken University of Victoria co-op student insisted he didn’t know what his inquisitors were talking about.

    Nine times he denied misusing public health data and five times he insisted he hadn’t stolen anything away on a flash drive as they alleged.

  16. NVG says:

    Here’s a document that supports your argument Harvey

    CANADIAN RIGHTS DURING COVID-19:
    CCLA’sInterim Reporton COVID’s First Wave(June, 2020

    Conclusion: Preventing a Second Wave of Civil Liberties Violations Page 49

    https://ccla.org/cclanewsite/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/June-2020-COVID-report-working-document.pdf

    (Response: Thanks. Civil rights ARE important and MUST be defended and protected. I think it’s sad, and dangerous, when citizens …because of some partisan or personal belief or bias … are willing to defend government or officialdom’s actions that over-ride, ignore enshrined civil rights “for the public good”. No government overstepping its authority or overriding laws will say it’s “for the public bad”. We ALL must defend our enshrined rights … even if we agree with the objective(s) or understand they meant well in ignoring the law. h.o)

  17. hawgwash says:

    And another thing.
    The position of Provincial Health Officer, i.e. Dr. Bonnie Henry, is an independent nonpartisan role.

    Why have you dragged John Horgan into tour conspiracy theory? “Dr. Bonnie Henry, and Big Brother Adrian Dix and Big Brother John Horgan’s latest dictates aimed at controlling the Coronavirus exceed reason, reasonability and our human rights.”

    It also appears that you are out voted on this one Mr. O.

    (Response: Outvoted? Show me the TOTAL vote by all Blog readers! You sound like Donald Trump! STOP the count! 🙂 As for the Provincial Health Officer being independent, non-partisan ..do you REALLY believe provincial or federal health officers don’t “consult” with elected officials? Independent, non-partisan? Then why is the Health Minister so often right there introducing her, at her side at briefings and so often making comments and “clarifying” her remarks/statements/Orders? h.o)

  18. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I suspect there will be pushback and some clarification — probably on Monday.

    On CTV news at 6, we heard that outdoor gatherings (out of your home bubble) are not allowed — though going for a spaced-out walk with friends/relatives would be.

    Harvey’s concerns about the shut-ins not being able to have a visit from a helpful friend or family member are the kinds of things that — surely — Dr. Henry did not anticipate as being caught by this edict.

    One big problem with non-compliance, previously, was that many people could honestly say, “I don’t know even ONE of my friends or family who have had it. What’s the fuss?”

    Then, all of a sudden: WHAM! A dance studio got hit in Chilliwack and it got into schools and social circles and the shock waves moved quickly. All hockey was locked down, while soccer was still running… then abruptly stopped.

    I envy the Vancouver Island folk, who have had a good COVID record since the start. For us Lower Mainlanders: we’ve got to step it up.

    (Response: I’m looking forward to both Dr Bonnie and Health Minister Dix “clarifying” … ie backing down … later today. Hopefully they’ve finally learned … after all they are NOT novices … that when they issue a Public Order, it has to be ACCURATE and CLEAR. Because if they are not, they will simply be ignored …which makes things even worse! h.o)

  19. DBW says:

    Harvey, please reread Hawgwash’s first comment.

    Now, if you are looking for clarity and are disappointed that Dr. Henry was not clear fair enough. But the sensationalism of your original post and the doubling down in your replies is not doing anybody any favours.

    There has been confusion about the original announcement. The reporters that you seem to think are not doing their job are in fact seeking that clarification. Here is another article.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/confusion-bc-new-covid-19-restrictions-1.5794767

    “I know there has been some confusion on what immediate household means,” Ministry spokeswoman Shannon Greer said in an email.

    “These would be the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. These would be people who are part of your regular routine, so household members, immediate family, a close friend or the people you have regular close contact with ”

    Those who live alone cannot host gatherings but can continue to see members of what they would consider their immediate household at home, outside or at a restaurant, she said.”

    You don’t need to get out Webster’s or worry about what legal argument you are going to make when you are arrested (which you aren’t).

    My daughter works in a daycare in Victoria. Besides the babies whose diapers she changes, the toddlers and pre-schoolers she helps, the parents who drop their kids off and her co-workers, her bubble consists of the guy she lives with, a friend outside of work and a friend at work. Sometimes when her partner works shift she spends some time at the home of the friend from work. Do you honestly think the police will bust down doors if they lived in Vancouver and continued to do that? When they work together all day? Last week, her other friend had a birthday and my daughter was invited to go out for dinner. She decided not to go because there were going to be other people there outside her bubble. Instead she and her friend met at a park this weekend for a walk and a picnic lunch. That is in Victoria were the cases are low and there are no restrictions. That is how Dr. Henry wants everybody to behave.

    As for punishments. Do we want the police spending increasing time looking for people like my daughter? Someone like Harry who is helping a friend? Do you want the courts jammed with cases? Of course not. Sure go after flagrant cases that are so egregious that they can’t get ignored, but really Dr. Henry wants people to use common sense and common decency and just do the simplest of things that can stop the spread.

    Her orders are to get people to pay attention. The last thing she wants is to become totalitarian. So just wear a mask. Reduce your social gatherings. Be kind and calm and safe. Be like my daughter. It is on us folks and writing blogs that undermine Dr. Henry’s message by calling her Big Sister or comparing her actions to Cuba are not helpful.

    (Response: First, read my response to DM Johnston, so I don’t have to repeat what is now actually going on. It is NOT sensationalism to call out government officials for: holding a RARE Saturday press briefing by the Public Health Officer and the BC NDP Health Minister; draw massive public attention that something BIG was about to befall; then issue an Official Public Health Order; commanding millions of residents in the Lower Mainland to comply …on pain of high fines and possibly even charges for which they would have to appear in Court … and then, within 24 hours …say “April Fool!” … in early November! Now, the socialist-sympathetic sheep may try to deflect, defend such a messup … even incompetence … but this is Keeping it Real … and I did! Finally the “working” media also got onto this, 24 hours late, but at last … and later today Dr Henry will be announcing a “clarification”. Probably quite a few! And I’m happy that I played even a small part in sounding the alarm to get her and the NDP government to do that! h.o)

  20. D. M. Johnston says:

    @ Hagwash

    The truth hurts, much of the Covid spread in the Fraser health is due to major gatherings, by groups who have major events, like massive weddings. Sadly a certain ethnic groups have ignored the rules and now we all must pay.

    The NDP is deathly afraid to call out the current state of affairs and happily bring draconian rules and laws down upon us because of their racist attitude for those who have been abiding the law.

    Just to let you know, my wife of 30 years was born in the Philippines and in my younger days, played rugby for the Vancouver Fijians RFC. I know what racism is and I also know how reverse racism works as well and the NDP are practicing it presently.

    Covid-19, by all accounts is spread via aerosol, thus being indoors is dangerous and with forced air heating by gas furnaces, the infected air is recycled, yikes.

    Covid-19 big target is the elderly and the term “Boomer Remover” is well stated.

    So here is the deal.

    Wear masks to prevent the spread of Covid-19.
    Wash often, go back to hand washing dishes, etc.
    Do not socialize in confined places, with poor air flow.
    Avoid bars and other community spread opportunities.
    Do not have or go too big weddings etc.
    And if you are feeling ill, do not go to work and self quarantine.

    Now, again, if those simple rules are ignored, Covid will spread.

    Bonnie Henry, instead of targeting the real issues and giving workable solutions, has issued draconian edicts which are unenforceable and will not change thing.

    This is the NDP and is the harbinger of things to come. Bonnie Henry’s actions are sowing the seeds for a massive Liberal win in four years time.

    (Response: Turns out, once again, I was quite correct in raising the alarm over this bungled message by Dr Bonnie and the NDP government. Dr Bonnie later today (Monday) will be “clarifiying” … in Keeping it Real words, CHANGING the parameters and possibly even the wording of her Order. And so she should. There have been all kinds of differing interpretations, explanations and even suggestions to ignore (LOL!) the Order now from civic and health officials. Stand by …for a reality check!! h.o)

  21. hawgwash says:

    See, I can’t let go of your Tucker Carlson School of Journalism approach.

    Something kept niggling at me and I wondered what I was missing. Then, in the middle of the night it hit me; you are hung up on the words “social” and “social gatherings.”

    Those words are constantly repeated in the blog and your replies, telling me you don’t understand the difference between social and essential. Or even just “necessary.”

    A routine personal visit to check up on or deliver essentials to a shut in, is not a social gathering. Even pausing for a cup of tea with them, could be construed essential to their wellbeing and as pointed out above, neither Dix nor Henry will be sending in your Policia Nacional Bolivariana in combat dress.

    On another note, I’m guessing you will be defying Dr. Henry, by venturing beyond your Health Region, exercising your civil right to shop at the One Eyed Budgie Gift Shop in Keremeos, where masks are prohibited.
    https://thepostmillennial.com/bc-gift-shop-bans-masks-from-store

    (Response: This is hilarious: you chastise ME for being “hung up on the words “social” and “social gatherings.”. Well, those are the EXACT WORDS in the Order!! Read it again …both the headline and the content of the Order: “Social interactions and gatherings: Socialize only with those in your immediate household.”. There! Do you think perhaps, maybe, perchance that’s why I used those “words”?? Hmmm! Do you think instead I should ignore the actual words used by officials and in public documents and just invent ” alternative” words or facts? Not on this Blog! And clearly, with Dr Bonnie about to “clarify” today her Saturday screwup, they’ll get it correct today …maybe even appoint a Committee to give us a whole new list of government-acceptable “substitute” words we can all use to “clarify” all BC Laws and Public Orders from now on, so that we can understand what they mean, not what they say when they speak, issue or publish documents, statements, press releases, Legislation and Public Orders! h.o)

  22. hawgwash says:

    D.M.Johnston; “The NDP is deathly afraid to call out the current state of affairs and happily bring draconian rules and laws down upon us because of their racist attitude for those who have been abiding the law.”

    Dix and Henry have on many occasions expressed concerns about multi-generational households and cultural gatherings, without singling out “turban wearers.”

    Kelowna houseboat parties, Second Beach Drum Circles, AirBnB parties, Granville Street crowds, crowded Victoria condo bashes; none singled out as ethnic.

    And please, don’t play the “by the way my wife….” card. That is a BMCQ trick.

  23. e.a.f. says:

    just to keep it real, lets be frank. what people are talking about is the South Asia community–that they are responsible for the big weddings, funerals, etc. News flash the Fraser Valley is also home to what I call the bible pounders and they have never been that great about vacanating their kids, etc. Do you expect them to be any better with COVID and the restrictions. I’m betting not so much. Given the increase in numbers in the Fraser Valley, we’re looking at every one, not just one ethnic group. Hence the new rules for everyone. We’ve seen increases in COVID in Ontario and Quebec. Everyone is involved, not just one ethnic group.

    We need to get this under control before our health care workers get this in mass. IF they get it, we’re all fxxked.

    If we took this “position” about “violating” people’s rights inside their own homes, well we would never have gotten society to recognize spousal and child abuse. At one time that was just, private, it went on in the home, every one butt out. Well we didn’t and now its against the law. This is the same thing. What goes on in private homes spills out into the general community. Think of it this way. If we don’t get people to change their behaviour in their homes, we could be in for a very expensive future, with “long haulers” for decades to come. think of it as a way of saving on taxes in the future.

    (Response: I think I’ve got it figured out …what Dr Bonnie and the NDP government are trying to signal, say ..without actually saying it. Want to see what they say today … watch for my next Blog. h.o)

  24. e.a.f. says:

    It isn’t just B.C./NDP, socialists which are “interferring” with private lives/homes. CBC is reporting in Peel, Ontario:
    – no social gatherings celebrating holidays and life events in business establishments
    – wedding receptions and associated gatherings, not allowed
    – the usual as we are seeing here.

    Now just like here Peel has stated: PEEL RESIDENTS MUST RESTRICT THEIR CONTACT TO MEMBERS OF THEIR HOUSEHOLD AND ESSENTIAL SUPPORT ONLY. THOSE THAT LIVE ALONE MAY JOIN ONE DESIGNED HOUSEHOLD.

    – PEEL RESIDENTS SHOULD NOT VISIT ANY OTHER HOUSEHOLD OR ALLOW VISITORS TO THEIR HOMES OR YEARS, EXCEPT FOR EMERGENCY REASONS,….

    Now we could never consider Ford anything near a socialist, or whatever, he is a straight up Progressive Conservative. Yet the rules in Ontario are the same as in B.C. and in this case restricted to specific areas.

    So get over it, its just not happening in B.C. Its happening in other parts of Canada.

    The South China News is reporting mutations of the virus within children. they are continuing to research this because it may be difficult to use vaccines on people who are mutating the virus. In some cases the virus has mutated more than once in one child.

    Before we all think things are o.k. if we isolate for a couple of weeks, there is now a case of a woman who continued to shed the virus for 70 days, in which time the virus was active. Shedding of the virus stopped at 107 days. Its just another good reason to stay home as much as possible and restrict who comes into your home.

    We don’t really have a clue about this virus, at some levels and if Dr. Henry is issuing orders its because its in her medical opinion the best way to go and in Ontario ditto. This is a new way of living. Its not how I expected to live out my 70s, but its the new reality. Dying of COIVD is not a pleasant way to go. A drug over dose is much easier on you. However, COVID can kill the health care professional you is trying to save you.

    (Response: Well, at least the PEEL and Ford’s Ontario rules are clear! And you don’t seem to have found evidence (unlike HERE) where the Order says one thing, then officials say something quite different and finally have to hold a new briefing to “clarify” that what they ordered was not what they meant … and should basically be ignored. Maybe the BC government can hire Ontario to help draft our Orders? h.o)

  25. D. M. Johnston says:

    Oh dear, ruffled too many NDP feathers. Trumpism lives, both right and left in politics.

    What I think this entire episode signals is that people are fed up. The majority are following strict public health orders, while a vocal majority are not.

    The NDP held an election just as the second wave of covid-19 rushed toward us and must Horgan and crew must take responsibility for the dramatic increase in cases. Those who have been doing the lawful thing, adhering to health edicts, just got slapped across the face by Horgan.

    Also remember, Dr. Henry is not independent and as a bureaucrat must follow the government and its actions. The NDP were negligent in calling an election (for a sure win) and now must bear some of the blame.

    Look, again, Covid-19 is a killer for the elderly; and we don’t know the long term effects of this disease. BC is now playing politics with covid and I am afraid they have lost a major battle and now are blaming everyone for their bad decisions.

    What I do not like is that Fraser health is not breaking down infections to locals, which would give people more of a clue on how to deal with the disease, instead of hermetically sealing everyone in their homes, except if we want to shop, eat out, go to a bar etc.

    Test and trace and strict rules and support for those in quarantine.

    Frankly, I think Horgan is in panic mode, as this most draconian edict has shown, and as I have been stating, 2021 will make 2020 like child’s play and the NDP’s honeymoon with the people will disappear fast.

    Just wait for the massive tax hikes………………….just sayin.

    (Response: My Blog Wednesday will explain what/why the government and Dr. bonnie are REALLY worried about! h.o)

  26. Richard Skelly says:

    Let’s face it, Harv. Most members of modern Canadian press galleries bend more towards being Bob Cratchit-like note-taking clerks than gumshoe, get-to-the-bottom-of-things reporters.

    I recently commented on social media that a Royal Roads University honour for Dr. Bonnie Henry was premature. When autopsies of governments’ handlings of Covid-19 are written, Drs. Henry (in B.C.) and Tam (federally) may indeed be heroines. But they may just as easily be assessed as serial bunglers…for instance, for causing terrible harm to seniors and others in care who have been denied contact to loved ones.

    (Response: If people listened closely to what so many reporters and pundits are saying, they would weep as I do for journalism today. Just in the last few days, I’ve heard reporters and radio hosts drinking and regurgitating the government’s kool-aid without ANY serious challenges: the Order was needed (no concern or even mention of possible Charter of Rights over-stepping by government?); it’s only for two weeks (just because the Press Release says so?); and we’re still doing so well compared to other places (so why the latest very restrictive Order and threats of another full shut-down again?). Listen to the press conferences and interviews … try to spot any TOUGH questions CHALLENGING the government’s line or actions! No wonder NDP Ministers are so easily available for on-air interviews these days! h.o)

  27. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey

    i have read the comments , some caused me to smile some not so much lol;

    The only issue is a ill thought out public order period if even senior bureaucrats cant understand the order , or have to clarify the order and yet it is confusing still ,then it is a example of poor public policy.

    just because a order is clarified in a press release means squat ,because the order isnt changed its just clear as mud .

    meanwhile the unintended consequences and cost …… just keep climbing

    (Response: Well, the initial Order was very clear: and that was the problem! 🙂 Ridiculous, not likely to be followed by almost anyone and quite challengeable under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So the NDP government’s health officials clarified, altered, updated, explained, expanded …and basically backed down. But judging what I heard on the news this morning, many businesses and organizations are still confused and find the “updated” (LOL!) Order still too ambiguous. I would suggest the government not actually charge anyone with violating the “Order” …because the government will be laughed out of Court by the judge, based on their trying to explain the definitions alone! h.o)

  28. DBW says:

    Are you happy with the clarifications which (in more detail) echo what Dr. Henry said at the Saturday news conference and the ministry spokesperson said on Sunday and what Hawgwash and I took the original orders to mean?

    First there is no question that the orders were not clear enough and we can say that is inexcusable – fair enough – but we are dealing with something entirely new and decisions have to be made quickly. This isn’t like seatbelts or speed limits and taking the time to do a study and then fazing it in. So decisions are made and clarifications are sometimes required. As long as we get it right.

    Did anybody read the Canadian Civil Liberties Association report that NVG linked. I didn’t read it carefully because I can’t read anything carefully on a device, but they took four things into considerations when looking at various pronouncements.

    objective – slowing covid which the CCLA said was perfectly fine
    necessity
    proportionality
    time limit

    They used several examples from around the country and then graded from A to F. Some did well. Some didn’t. The only time I saw BC mentioned was a reference to BC being the most liberal in one regard.

    Do you want to do our own analysis on this current order. Objective – tick. Time limit – tick. Necessity – numbers are going up so tick? Proportionality – limited to the regions where the numbers warrant so tick but perhaps a bit of overreach as to home so ?? I imagine the CCLA would give it some kind of passing grade.

    And lastly Harvey and I can’t emphasize this enough. We can criticize Dr. Henry and the NDP government. That is not an issue. But, if you are basically on their side in the fight against Covid which I believe you are, then the language you use is critical. Orwellian references Venezuealan references socialist sheep references whataboutism references only feed into the conspiracy theories that are making life difficult in other jurisdictions, like for an obvious example the US.

    (Response: You and other partisan NDP defenders are no different than Trumpsters: you know full well that the administration screwed up, that the Order was excessive, over-reach and breached human rights (like the Order in the US putting kids in cages) …. yet you defend your dear leaders with the totally incredulous statement that you understood the “real” meaning of the Order, even though it said NOTHING LIKE the end result “clarified” by Dr Henry after her original wording hit the fan. Your reasoning and excuses are no different than those offered by Graham, Cruz and McConnell. The Order was VERY clear: NO VISITS PERMITTED FROM ANYONE OUTSIDE YOUR HOUSEHOILD!! Period!!! If your definition of your “household” truly includes people who live in homes miles miles, your command of the English language requires a refresher course. And if it was so obvious and clear, why did so many citizens, businesses, organizations etc. say it was totally confusing, unrealistic and overreach? And why has the Order now changed??? No doubt all the sheep will have another explanation to defend what the government said wasn’t what it really meant, but people should know that … and it’s the people’s fault for actually believing Orders issued under the NDP government and not twisting/interpreting it to what it actually should mean! LOL! h.o)

  29. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey

    lets keep it real

    if we are not careful we could end up living a version of the great poem that cemented social justice for me, the poem is first they came by Martin Niemoller. this is so true

    i want to thank you and others for their kind words re my wife’s health . it is not good she goes from grey to purple ,pasty white , short of breath and yet due to covid they wont keep her in hospital . this month we have had between 12 and 20 first responders in the apt
    my wife wants no more first responders because the hospital does triage and release

    i ended up in hospital wit a blood pressure of 219 over 96

    the reason why i am posting this is because a friend wanted a example of unintended consequences .

    all because of selfish idiots

    as you party your actions are depriving my wife AND SHE DESERVES BETTER

    sorry for rant

  30. HARRY LAWSON says:

    meant to add between 12 and 2 first responders multiple tmes

  31. John's Aghast says:

    Well Harvey, I started reading your blog last night and came away supporting Hogwash.
    What you were doing, in my humble opinion, was inciting the anti maskers to ignore Dr, Bonnies suggestions, orders or pleadings.
    Was it ONE or TWO? there’s a 100% difference between the two!

    After subsequently getting to the end this morning I find you have a somewhat subdued diatribe, no more ONE or TWO references and a more rational approach to her order. True, it may have been confusing, but it was meant, I believe, to gain attention to an escalating problem. If you feel comfortable being responsible for her amending the order then that’s fine (by me).
    Anyway, ease off, be happy and try to roll with the punches.

    (Edited..off topic)

    Response: I totally support wearing masks, washing hands and distancing and if you check back, you’ll see I have been highly supportive of efforts to curb/defeat Covid. But citizens have a right to the FULL truth and clarity about the Saturday Order … and lately I don’t believe Dr Bonnie or the NDP government have been giving us either … and the Order issued Saturday violated our Charter rights. Now they’ve backed off …quite a lot if you listen to their words and the latest their media messengers, who failed to ask the tough questions that I and other citizens and businesses and organizations did after Saturday’s debacle and government over-reach. h.o)

  32. DBW says:

    WARNING: The following is written by a “partisan NDP defender who is no different than Trumpsters like Cruz, Graham and McConnell.”

    LOLOL I am crushed Harvey and not sure if I can recover but here goes.

    I said and I quote “First there is no question that the orders were not clear enough and we can say that is inexcusable”

    But while you keep referring to the written orders (and my command of the English language is fine by the way), I also listen. I listened to the clip Hawgwash linked and read the clarification that the ministry put out and I also have enough common sense having followed Dr. Henry for several months to know that she is not the draconian Orwellian Big Sister that you claim her to be.

    As much of a big deal that you are making of this screw up (and it is a screw up) the bottom line is that Dr. Henry has focused on the areas of the province where numbers are concerning. She is targeting activities where the virus is spreading.

    She is not going to go after little Tommy who wants to visit Grandpa or Harry who wants to help his neighbour. But she is warning people that there is a risk of social gatherings in our homes and they should be curtailed. (By the way Hawgwash I like your interpretation of social gathering and I think Bonnie Henry would agree.)

    Now Harvey, you can continue to criticize Henry and Dix and Horgan and the NDP and the ministry and anybody else you want. You can continue to say it is unclear and they are a bunch of incompetent wannabe dictators. Go for it. I promise not to call you a member of QAnon

    (Response: Member of QAnon? That’s exactly how a typical Trumpster responds, trying to denigrate someone with whom they disagree. Interesting that you unabashedly use such a Trump-style technique. Read my Blog Wednesday: you’ll see … even if you won’t want to admit …what this two-week closure is really about. h.o)

  33. hawgwash says:

    Well, Harvey has now replaced Carnac the Magnificent; “on Wednesday I will tell you what Big Sister is thinking.”

    Bottom line, on Monday Dr. Henry looked directly into the camera, addressed Keeping it Real and said; “Sociial Media twisted my orders.”

    On Wednesday, I shall forgo my usual reading at the Save On checkout and wait for the tabloid headline right here.

    QAnon. Brilliant!

    (Response: Yes, so silly of social media to actually quote Dr Bonnie’s exact words in her Official Order … and believe they are what she intended to say! h.o.)

  34. e.a.f. says:

    Lets see the Premier of Manitoba is a guy who is a little right and spends a lot of time in the Caribean as I recall, at his other house. Not much in common with the NDP here. However, seems that right winger has gone further than Dix and Henry and placed Manitoba in “LOCK DOWN”.

    This isn’t about politics. this is about health and people staying alive.

    Hagwash, the one eyed Budgie shop in Keremos is most likely closed. An associate of ours was through there a week or so ago and even the bank has closed. That bank had been there since we were kids going to Penticton with our parents for summer vacation and that goes back to the 1950s.

    You did make me laugh.

    (Response: Nothing wrong with a total lockdown …IF it’s justified. Read my Blog Wednesday to keep it real about what’s happening NOW in BC. h.o)

  35. hawgwash says:

    Nov 10 published order:
    https://tinyurl.com/y5lpyzsm

    In part:
    “Socialize only with those in your core bubble.

    Core bubble:
    A core bubble are the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. For some people, their core bubble is their immediate household. For others, their core bubble may contain a partner, relative, friend or co-parent who lives in a different household.
    An immediate household is:
    • Your immediate family
    • A group of people who live in the same dwelling. For example:
    o If you have a rental suite in your home, the suite is a separate household
    o If you live in an apartment or house with roommates, you are all members of the same household.

    Gatherings:
    No social gatherings of any size with anyone other than your core bubble. For example:
    • Do not invite friends or extended family to your household
    • Do not gather outdoors
    • Do not have playdates for children

    (Response: Yes, that’s the new, improved message delivered today … after I and several other people, groups, organizations, businesses questioned the confusing, over-reaching Order issued two days earlier. Glad I could help! h.o)

  36. DBW says:

    LOL. You called me a partisan. You called me a Trumpster. You likened me to Cruz Graham and McConnell. You questioned my command of the English language.

    But when I promise NOT to call you a member of QAnon, I am the one who is trying to denigrate someone with whom they disagree.

    Look, I get that you are upset at the roll out of the orders. Fine. I get that you don’t like some of the overreach. Fine. We can agree to disagree on the last one. I will agree that the rollout was messy.

    But I still don’t understand your agitation. I don’t understand the Big Brother references especially when you said you would be fine with a total lockdown. Maybe your post tomorrow will make things clear because right now this whole discussion is more confusing than Dr. Henry’s orders ever were.

    (Response: Big Brother likes to tell everyone what to do, disrespects individual rights … even when there is no justification for it. Read Wednesday’s blog. h.o)

  37. NVG says:

    Remembrance Day, November 11th. Hmmm. You’re doing a Post on Remembrance Day, ranting about how Dr. Henry, and the Province of British Columbia, are handling the Covid-19 crisis.

    I wonder, why do you …… come across as being so angry with authority figures?

    Answer:
    “Big Brother likes to tell everyone what to do, disrespects individual rights ….

    PS There is no justification to read your Wednesday blog post

    (Response: Then don’t read it….fall in line with some pre-conceived notion of required conformity you think should be imposed on all. But I’ll tell you: REAL veterans and REAL freedom believers today WILL read blogs, newspapers, books, watch the news, discuss, argue and dial in their favorite TV comedy, sports and even silly reality programs … as well as tune in the important Remembrance Day ceremonies (available in several time zones), follow the commemorations, watch the many documentaries available on several networks … and say prayers of remembrance and thanks in our heart. That’s the BEST tribute we can offer to those who sacrificed so much for all of us: that we Remember them and that we are all are still free to shop TODAY; to go to restaurants; to watch TV today … and yes, to laugh and enjoy and be happy … and continue to live our lives FREE and to the FULLEST … and yes, even write/read blogs. h.o)

  38. E Johnson says:

    I know you are aware that the communities of White Rock, Langley, Abbotsford, Chilliwack, Hope, Boston Bar, Mission, Maple Ridge and Pitt Meadows are part of Fraser Health Region. Those of us living in Fraser Health East hate feeling left out. ?

    Yes, DBW, I for one am bored with your serial posting on this specific blog posting. I feel you made your point quite clear after the first couple. I do appreciate that you care so much about this subject. Covid is leading to frayed nerves and less patience, mine included.

    (Response: I pointed out earlier there are 1.8 million people living in 13 cities that make up Fraser Health. That helps make my point: enforcements, crackdowns and closures should be targeted wherever the virus is spreading most … and leave other areas alone to continue their successful, normal compliance measures. h.o.)

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