Canadians Fortunate Trudeau/Liberals NOT Handling Our Toilet Paper Supply!

For weeks and weeks, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and every Liberal cabinet minister who could find a television camera, announced, re-announced, boasted about how many MILLIONS of Covid vaccine doses Canada had signed contracts for … as many as SIX TIMES our population’s requirements!

The largest number of vaccine doses ordered in the world … so many in fact, news outlets elsewhere in the world began chastising Canada for hoarding. It became embarrassing for some … but generally, Canadians felt reassured.

Unfortunately, Trudeau would not let us SEE the actual contracts; scrutinize what we paid; and, most importantly, where Canada would actually stand in priority/shipment/delivery schedules.

Now we know … way down the list!!!

And apparently, that was in effect well before the current production/supply difficulties occurred.

Canadians are fortunate Trudeau/Liberals were not responsible for obtaining toilet paper supplies for the nation!

Imagine all those press conferences assuring us last Fall they had ordered MILLIONS of rolls, enough for six times Canada’s needs: BUT then revealing, as our toilet paper ran out across the country, the bulk of the rolls won’t be arriving until March and beyond!!

While Canadians saw other nations … that had not loudly boasted … quietly distributing much higher numbers of the soft, absorbent supplies to their populations!

That’s what has happened with the much more critical supplies …. life-saving Covid vaccines.

Trudeau/Liberals clearly talked the talk … but let Canadians down in what they had actually negotiated and obtained for our country in early distributions of both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

MANY other countries, like Canada … where vaccines are also not manufactured … did MUCH better in getting vaccine doses for their people BEFORE the recent production problems arose.

As of Friday, here are the number of doses administered per 100 population: Israel 52.64; UAE, 29; UK, 11.67; Bahrain; 8.47; US 7.91; Iceland 4.5; Serbia and Malta 5.3; Denmark 3.8; Slovenia, 3.4; Ireland 3.3; Romania 3.2; Lithuania 3.1; Poland, Spain, Portugal 2.9; Italy, 2.83; Germany 2.65; Finland 2.5; Canada 2.4 … same as Estonia.

For more details of these Covid statistics, check out the latest “Our World in Data” website: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations.

How did other countries do so much better?

Trudeau/Liberals MUST explain WHY Canada ranks 20th in the world in vaccination rates? (Some reports suggest Canada did even poorer … 30th in the world.)

Did we not pay enough? Did we not negotiate scheduling forcefully enough? Did the companies break their agreements/commitments with Canada, while fulfilling them with other countries?

Surely, it would have been wiser not to massively overbuy (six times Canada’s needs), but instead pay more per dose to get larger numbers earlier, and free up the excess for other countries to buy, without indebting Canadian taxpayers to pay for those too!

With over 778,000 Canadians having fallen victim to Covid so far, and more than 20,000 deaths, I suspect most Canadians would have agreed with that approach.

Canadians deserve to see the details of the contracts Trudeau/Liberals signed.

I believe there were several mistakes made by the Liberal government:

Canada SHOULD NOT HAVE wasted time and efforts by engaging in co-operative research and vaccine development efforts with untrustworthy China … a $44 million project that floundered when the Xi dictatorship scuttled it;

Canada SHOULD HAVE funded/developed a vaccine production facility (or facilities) domestically, which could have produced doses under licence right here for Canadians and even assisted in meeting world needs; and,

Canada SHOULD HAVE pressed/arranged for our supposed great friend and ally, the United States, to allow some doses from Pfizer’s US plant to be shipped north, instead of having us rely totally on Pfizer’s plant in Belgium for supply.

The provinces can be criticized for vaccine distribution policies, practices and problems, but the federal government is totally responsible for the dismal failure of Canada’s early vaccine acquisitions.

Trudeau and the Liberal government have to answer for that.

Harv Oberfeld

(Pass it on: help others become aware/participate in the increasing role trustworthy social media is now playing in keeping Canadians informed … send them a Keeping It Real link: www.harveyoberfeld.ca )

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52 Responses to Canadians Fortunate Trudeau/Liberals NOT Handling Our Toilet Paper Supply!

  1. 13 says:

    I await the explanation not from Trudeau as he is a proven idiot that is in way over his head, but from his supporters that will roll out excuses in a very efficient manor. This will come as a major blow to Canadians that feel so superior to our American neighbors.
    Trudeau has failed as a leader. He has allowed China to make Canada look like a lab where it can test germ warfare while training fighter pilots on our soil. As has been stated earlier had the Chinese virus landed on our shores in July we would have been in the same horrid position as the rest of the world that welcomed the Chinese agents disguised as tourists sent worldwide by the Chinese government.
    Sadly with a track record a dismal as Trudeau has compiled the opposition Conservatives seem leaderless an unable to hold Trudeau accountable for his years of blunders

    (Response: O’Toole has been out there … raising issues related to the vaccine rollout and criticizing Trudeau/Liberals. But I don’t get the sense that Canadians think he has offered any better alternatives. h.o)

  2. D. Malcolm Johnston says:

    Globalization has come home to roost. Past governments, including Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition, have done their collective best to make Canada dependent on overseas governments and the now the proverbial chicken waste has hit the fan.

    Trudeau and the Liberals must realize now that China is just not our competition, it is our enemy and they can never depend on them to fulfill any agreement honestly.

    Canada doesn’t amount to a hill of beans internationally and anyone who thinks differently are rubes ready to have their pockets picked.

    Singh and O’Toole also must accept their responsibility in this matter because their politcal parties involvement with globalization, free trade and more.

    To be sure, the vaccines have come at a record pace and with that record pace comes problems, major problems and the current vaccines do not travel well.

    The biggest blunder it seems is that Trudeau, Horgan and the rest of the provincial premiers did not act when the warning signals for Wuhan flashed and we are reaping the whirlwind of politcal hubris, by all politcal parties. From what I can gather, 3 critical weeks were lost in political dithering and we are paying the price.

    Good god, there are still snow-birds traveling south, how the hell did that happen?

    Vaccines are not a cure all, there is no magic bullet for Covid and now this bug is morphing into deadlier strains.

    The vaccine roll out should have been low keyed and the realities of the situation presented honestly and with conviction.

    But….I see no change and the same old comic/tragic opera continuing.

    I have said that 2021 will make 2020 look like child’s play; 2022 will be a politcal bloodbath for those in office who continue to spend monies like nothing happened.

    Anyone who thought Canada would get preferential treatment for a vaccine is smoking the now legal weed and Canada and the guy who is at the end of a stopping buck, will feel the wrath of a largely ignorant voter who cannot go on his/hers winter ski trip or summer vacation because they could not get vaccinated.

    (Response: I personally know three couples who went South (two to Mexico, one to the US) despite Covid. Interestingly, the ones who went to the US (Florida) have already had their first vaccine dose, get their second this coming week …and will then return home … so actually fared quite well. Haven’t heard directly about the others … but I expect they will routed home through the US … AFTER they’ve enjoyed the sun and are ready to return … and I’ve heard the resorts, tourist restaurants and major grocery stores etc. in Mexico beach areas are very sanitary etc. so not as bad as many here think or would LIKE to believe. I didn’t go Florida this winter, though, too risky there for me … and although warm, not much socializing, fun going on…. BUT I would have had the vaccine by now! h.o)

  3. Not Sure says:

    You posted this back on Dec.1.

    http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/trudeaus-fate-tied-to-success-failure-of-covid-vaccine-rollout/

    To save BMCQ a whole lot of typing time, he can just cut and paste his comments and say “I told you so.”

    Not saying he was right then or right now. It is hard to judge a coach’s performance until the World Series is over. But is fun looking back at old comments.

    (Response: Interesting…. could be I was “right on” AGAIN! 🙂 I believe the Liberals know how important the rollout is and unless there is a MAJOR ramping up of vaccine supplies in March AND April the likelihood of a Spring election will diminish … delayed until Fall, after a nice, warm, sunny vaccine-immersed Summer. h.o)

  4. BMCQ says:

    Once again a great essay and analysis of the horrific situation Canadian PM Justin has put basically ALL of his subjects in through the fact that he is number one narcissistic, intellectually challenged, incompetent, impotent, ineffective, incapable of managing anything let alone a crisis and he is on top of all that stupid and arrogant, not a good combination of character traits .

    (Edited…off topic.)

    There is nothing more the Canadian PM enjoys more than addressing his faithful flock
    while standing on his front porch with a cooperative media taking anything and everything he states as “The Gospel” without a serious question until most recently where things are beginning to look desperate . It now looks like there is really nowhere the Canadian PM can run and hide, he will soon be required to tell all, especially as Harvey points out, he will forced to release the full details of various Vax Contracts including time lines/dates .

    I find it absolutely incredible how some here on this Blog showed their own “Canadian Superiority” attitude while deriding and criticizing the USA for their own roll out of the Vaccines, who is laughing now ? As Harvey points out now the USA is doing better than most, Hell, they are even vaccinating Canadians, how does that make you feel ? Canadian Superiority My ASS . Yes we do get fed different numbers from various media outlets but the USA was in fact already vaccinating more than 1 Million People a day weeks before “Sock Puppet” and new POTUS Biden mumbled anything about it .

    D. Malcom makes some very important points, especially when he speaks about “Globalization” and his most important point/word when he points out that Canadian PM and Top Mensa Member Justin considers Canadians “RUBES” !

    13 is most correct when he talks about Chinese agents and others that do the ground work for the Chinese Communist Party, where do you think he finances come from for Chinese nationals to purchase real estate in your country . Just wait until you find out how many millions of acres of fertile agricultural farm land Chinese Nationals and Agents have purchased in Canada, the USA, and Mexico, it will make your teeth rattle .

    Canadians even though most are “Rubes” deserve to know more about the Vax Roll Out and they need to demand through media and the opposition parties that a “Royal Commission” be launched immediately, Canadians need to know what transpired and Canadians need to know now, be3efore the next election . How could any party be allowed to bury this story and keep the facts hidden from the Electorate before the next election ? Once again, Media need to demand full transparency and they need to demand that transparency now .

    For the most part Canadians and up until recently media are responsible for the Canadian PM to consider them “Rubes”, are they not ? Hell, Canadians may even re elect PM Justin later this year, perhaps in October once a fairly high percentage of
    his flock has been vaxxed . YIKES !

    I believe O’Toole is doing a fairly good job but let’s face it the very biased leftist activist media for the most part are against O’Toole and the Conservatives and the PM has his “Corner Man” NDP Leader Singh backing him every step of the way . It is one thing for media to be pressing the PM on the whole Vax Debate but they need to be asking O’Toole more and reporting those interviews on evening News Casts on ALL outlets, including CBC .

    Imagine if Singh had the courage to trigger an election campaign beginning tomorrow,
    that would mean a huge change and an election loss for the Liberals as PM Justin looks so very bad right now, hell the Liberals might lose up to half of their seats right across Canada, even Canadians would not fall for the “Baffle Gab” the PM would put out right now , All O’Toole would need to do is demand that Canadian PM show Canadians the contracts with the various producers of Vaccines, that would show Canadians the degree that the PM and Liberals have lied and in fact screwed up the whole roll out right from the beginning . Despicable and Disastrous !!

    I echo Harvey’s thoughts I can travel to the USA as my company is a supplier to the U.S. Navy and the U.S. Coast Guard I would then be eligible to get the Vax, but I have not and I would not, I will wait my turn . I travel to 17 countries on a regular basis and since mid March 2020 I have not left YVR even though I have many questions about China, W.H.O. Tedros, Dr. WHO/Tam. The B.C. NDP Government, and Dr. Bonnie .

    Yes for the most part I believe dix and Dr. “B” have done a good job say up until the past few months but the “No Mask/Mask” thing was a big mistake for ALL Health Authorities .

    Only a guess but I believe if Canada had approached the USA for Vaccines from Pfizer
    we would have received some, even from the “Bad Orange Man” !!

    FYI

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9209689/How-EU-failed-plan-vaccines-rollout.html

  5. r says:

    good thing we make tp in new west!

    feds might throw it in garbage dump because it was past expiry :/

    (Response: Or they can get it from the EU… in October. h.o.)

  6. DonGar says:

    Yup as always Justin looking out for Canadiens.

    Wouldn’t ban travel from China because no need and racist. And today we have

    https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3119991/china-temporarily-suspends-most-foreign-nationals

    And gave away our PPE only to beg to buy back supplies.

    https://thebreaker.news/business/henry-china/

    And like EU did little to nothing to make sure Canadiens had vaccine supply.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9209689/How-EU-failed-plan-vaccines-rollout.html

    And yet he will get re-elected likely with a majority because he is giving away cash.

    (Response: Too early to tell: let’s see … and experience …the rest of the “rollout”, as they say in politics …and the toilet paper industry. People very often vote AGAINST governments/leaders if there is an alternative who may not seem great…but at least “not too bad”. h.o)

  7. D. M. Johnston says:

    Just following up on another blog about the same topic.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connaught_Laboratories

    Could this vaccine fiasco be traced back to Brian Mulroney?

    The following quote, I believe, sums up the fiasco; “The move was criticized by many, including Jim Peterson, who was critical of Brian Mulroney’s industrial policy and voiced that “no other industrialized country … would permit the takeover of its leading biotechnology firm.”

    (Response: Why not back to the creation? If the good Lord or Mother Nature had given Canada better geographical position, warmer weather, we would have had many millions more people by now and MUCH bigger market to support all kinds of industrial research, product development and manufacturing. 😉 h.o)

  8. BMCQ says:

    Not Sure

    As one can see I was told I “Would have egg on my face” for my pessimistic viewpoint on the Roll Out for Canada and I replied with the following, “For the sake of Canadians I do hope I end up with egg on my face but I have faith in the Canadian PM and his minions, they will indeed make the roll out a disaster” .

    This is one time I hate being correct, we must hope for better from our political masters but we must not expect it, that would just be silly .

    In the meantime the numbers of dead Canadians continues to increase .

    Canadians need the PM to be transparent, we need to see the Vaccine Contracts, we need the whole story, and Canadians need accountability .

  9. 13 says:

    BTW Harvey to use Trudeaus name in the post headline combined with toilet paper is pure genius although its insulting to the toilet paper.

    (Response: Moi? Dump on a politician that way? h.o)

  10. Keith says:

    Today ( Feb 1) the opposition were hammering away at the federal libs. about the delay in vaccine shipments. One brilliant but simple question posed by a conservative member to Mary Ng amongst other things responsible for international trade was: “ do you have those assurances in writing.” The response essentially was that everyone from Trudeau down to the chief cook and bottle washers assistant had been assured by the Europeans that there wouldn’t be a problem. Didn’t watch a whole lot but this seemed to be the blah blah theme being used by the liberals.

    Also on the CBC an expert on international trade that had knowledge of the contracts Canada has in place for drug shipments, believes there is a lot of room for the European govts. or suppliers to move if vaccine nationalism comes into play. To state the obvious time will tell but in either case the waffling doesn’t inspire a much confidence.

    And at present if it comes to put up or shut up, the liberals are incapable of doing either and soon we will all tire of another politico standing in front of a camera spinning their wheels, saying a lot but saying nothing, just another variation of the same theme from the previous day.

    In one of your previous postings Harvey I said I believe an election will be lateish summer when the vaccines are flowing, money is still being pumped out and the opposition is still out of the media loop, but man the libs. are starting to trip over their own feet making it harder to time it right and win it outright.

    Excellent comment # 2 from D. Malcolm Johnston.

    (Response: The Liberals could wait all the way until Oct 16, 2023 before the next federal election: but I doubt there is any way the other parties will allow the minority government to survive that long. The truth is Trudeau should have gone last Fall … and, as I wrote last Spring, there were definite signs he was maneuvering (handing out loads of CASH!) towards that. BUT something spooked him (Covid spread?) and now, the early vaccine rollout debacle is hurting the Libs. However, if LOTS of vaccines start to roll in March, April … they could still recover public support … especially if O’Toole fails to catch on. h.o)

  11. e.a.f. says:

    We ought to have been faster off the mark when COVID hit China, but we weren’t. Now how do we solve the problem? vaccines would work, but they aren’t coming as fast as we’d like. It was reported though that Phizer wanted tax breaks from the government in the next federal budget. could that be the reason we aren’t getting vaccines as fast as we want to have them

    We haven’t helped ourselves much either. We haven’t adhered to the protocols laid out by Chief Medical officers of this country. When COVID struck in Wuhan I paid attention. By 1 March I had 3 months of food, medication, etc. in the house and ceased going out, except to go to the post office at the end of June. People still go on vacations, go to crowded places, etc. Just wait until a week after Super Bowl. We didn’t do enough to restrict people coming into Canada and those who did come into the country weren’t supervised closely enough, i.e. in lock down where they could be supervised. We’re getting around to that now, but Canada is pretty much at the same place other countries are. Look at the “night club” in Telus towers which was busted over the weekend. At this rate we’ll never get through it. It is doubtful this is the only place running under ground night clubs.

    it was interesting to read this is not a new problem. they had it in Italy in 1575, with the plague. People wouldn’t stay in doors, for the 40 day quarantine. Then 60 years later the plague came back and they had the same problem. Here we are in 2021 and we are still having the same problem. New Zealand seems to get it.

    What we ought to have had a more vibrant research complex in this country instead of allowing other countries and corporations to take the lead. My take on it is governments didn’t want to spend the money because voters/taxpayers didn’t want to pay more. Its hard to believe the country where Fredrick Banting discovered insulin was Canada.

    We know we can’t produce a product if its under “inventor’s protection”, but the guy who increased the years a corporation could restrict their product was none other than Brian Mulroney as part of NAFTA 1.

    A country which can not look after its own needs isn’t truly independent as we are now seeing.

    Too bad some one had to murder Barry and Honey Sherman. He might have found a way around the lack of production of the vaccine in Canada. He was truly amazing in getting companies to give up their proprietory rights before the time limits were up.

    We can complain about Trudeau and others, but really do any of us have a solution? Hind sight is 20/20 vision. Arm chair quarter backing is easy. Reality is not. As the saying goes, you can pay now or you can pay later, but you will pay. Next time lets hope the country decides to pay now because later, the price seems so much higher than it needs to be.

    (Response: The reference to Mulroney “increased the years a corporation could restrict their product” relates to patents. I realize the armchair socialists think everything is free … especially if they grab it from corporations, but I have no problem with a company being able to recoup costs and make a PROFIT (dirty word?) for their shareholders (another dirty word?) after spending maybe hundreds of millions of dollars to develop a successful major new medication (after also funding maybe dozens of failures). But I wonder if Trudeau/Liberals couldn’t have negotiated licensing rights with Pfizer and/or Moderna to have a plant here produce vaccines, not just for Canada, but overseas nations as well. h.o)

  12. Not Sure says:

    I get amused quite easily.

    In your response to my linking your Dec. 1 blog post you said “looks like I was right again.” That blog post posited that Trudeau’s re-election was dependent on the rollout. So what were you right about. The rollout isn’t finished. There is no election yet. You still may be right, but too soon to claim the obviously safe bet that the rollout will affect the election.

    And 13 made me giggle in that in wanted to hear an explanation for this debacle not from Trudeau because he’s a “proven idiot” but from his supporters who I can now presume are not idiots at least in his eyes. I have never voted for a Liberal party led by either Trudeau but it is nice to know that not every misguided SJW naive wokeperson who fails to understand yada yada yada is an idiot.

    BMCQ said he hoped that he had egg on his face, that his prediction is wrong and that the rollout is ultimately successful which I am sure is true of all of us regardless of political bent. But guaranteed, no matter what the outcome, 13, BMCQ and others will always view Trudeau as an idiot and unfit for PM.
    I am not criticizing that point of view, I have my biases as well. It just makes this specific blog topic less appealing than the last one.

    As contentious as it was, your last post had a clear debate point.

    What is the topic here.
    1.The rollout has started poorly/not smoothly/whatever negative term you want to use?
    No doubt.
    2.The government is too blame? Well the argument by Liberal supporters can’t be more than this. “This is just a blip. Blame phizer. Blame the EU. Let’s wait and see. Blame Harper (or Mulroney lol). How much better would Scheer have been etc. etc.” None of them are particularly compelling at this time.
    3.Trudeau sucks? Ok.

    Not Sure what else I can contribute.

  13. E. Johnson says:

    Our Canadian government has been a day late and a dollar short since before the pandemic was even declared. Given that we had SARS in Canada, we should have been as fully prepared as humanly possible both federally and provincially. We can only hope they are properly prepared for future pandemics. This is just the beginning.

    (Re3sponse: I believe most Canadians, including myself, were quite happy in the early months of Covid with both the federal and provincial governments. And I suppose it’s quite normal that as it drags on and on, people will get impatient and increase their criticisms. Trudeau’s problem is that he and his Cabinet members bragged and boasted so much about all the doses they had arranged: Canadians can be forgiven for wondering WHERE they are, when we see so many other countries vaccinating more of their populations while we look to the skies for a plane to bring us some. h.o)

  14. BMCQ says:

    Not Sure

    To clarify, I have on several occasions Right on this blog stated that I would be more than happy with Liberal,PM Paul Martin leading Canada, Martin was not perfect but he understood business, economics, world politics, and he put ALL Canadians firSt for the most part, he governed for all Canadians not just his base or special interests like the current PM, Martin was an adult .

    Between the Khan fiasco, SNC Lavalin, then the separate issue of JWR and Philpott which would have taken down a Conservative Government, the Vax Roll Out the appointment of GG Payette, the “Sh*t Show” she became when she already had a spotty record at best, the absolute de capitation of the Provinces of Alberta, Saskatchewan and their good people by his mis handling of pipelines, his sexual assaults where he was once again protected by media, his penchant for “Dressing Up” (I bet there is more to that) his Messiah Complex, and so much more that media has ignored might cause someone like me to distrust and disrespect the PM, hell, some might even be cynical .

    None of my reasons for disliking and disrespecting the PM have nothing to do with the fact he is a Liberal .

    In closing I would like to say this about the Roll Out and the now delay of vaccines . Why do we not ask a handful of Universities across the country to study the roll out and the delays, asking them to review everything from when Canada placed orders to the guarantees secured, the dates agreed upon, the cost, the original government distribution plan, the ensuing delays, and anything else that can be fed into the hopper and then provide us a number of how many deaths were a result of the Canadian Government and Canadian Health Authorities mishandling and mismanaging of the whole vaccine distribution from day one to Feb. 28, to April 3o, to the end of Sept. when the PM stated that those that want the vaccine will have it .

    I still cal for a Royal Commission sometime early in 2022 but Canadians need to know much more long before an October Election, we need transparency before we vote .

    Do you think there might be a chance that many Canadians of all political brands might look at the PM a little differently once the “Band Aid” has been ripped off ?

    My dislike and disrespect of the Canadian has absolutely nothing to with his political party, my criticisms are simply based on his pathetically poor job performance, his lack of integrity, his poor character, his ability to lie so easily to the Canadian people, his arrogance, and his narcissistic preening and prancing while the camera is running .

    Honestly he makes me ill .

  15. Les Zsoldos says:

    There’s no doubt that negotiating with China for a vaccine was a big mistake. In fact, China has ordered vaccines from abroad, so that tells me all I need to know about the Chinese vaccine. Maybe the Chinese vaccine is for ordinary Chinese, and foreign vaccines are for the elites.

    If we compare Canada to Israel with respect to vaccines, there’s a huge difference. Whether or not you like Benjamin Netanyahu, you have to admit he’s very intelligent and competent. He realizes leadership is about much more than photos and daily briefings in front of your cottage.

    In times like these, Canadians need a serious, hard-working and competent prime minister. They also need someone who looks after them and not just family and friends. The prime minister isn’t taken seriously on the world stage, and that won’t change with the new administration in Washington.

    Some people think Justin Trudeau will still get a majority. I’m not so sure about that. The Liberals will not be able to define Erin O’Toole as a social conservative in the same way they did with Andrew Scheer. Erin O’Toole has an impressive resume, and he’s from Ontario. That should secure him a lot of votes.

    I’m not convinced that Justin Trudeau is still interested in being our prime minister. If the polls don’t look too good for him before the next election, maybe he’ll do us all a big favour and resign. Jagmeet Singh, the worst leader in the history of the NDP, should do the same, but I’m sure Justin Trudeau wants him to stay because he’s even more hopeless than the prime minister!

    (Response: Jagmeet Singh ticks an important box for the NDP, visible minority, but the polls show he has led many more Canadians to erase the NDP box, and not just because of ethnicity. (Only 17% nationally and 11.9% in Quebec) Is there ANY cause for which Singh can’t be counted on to call for the federal government to spend hundreds of millions of dollars of taxpayers’ money? And I believe his total pandering to Quebec has disgraced both himself and the party: even on what should be a totally non-negotiable topic: RACISM. As for Trudeau, I believe he wants the job: what else could he adequately do? And if the vaccine rollout picks up … and he puts off an election until it does … don’t write him off. The biggest unknown is O’Toole: seems to me FAR too Ontario and Alberta centric, not terribly focused on BC issues/concerns/appointments, but I’m not sure many of those looking for a non-NDP/Greens alternative to the Liberals would care about that. h.o.)

  16. 13 says:

    @not sure, I predicted a response and thanks to yourself and eaf the response was forthcoming. I called Trudeau an idiot and I stand by that as my opinion of a man that has lied, he has taken bribes, the list of his moral and ethical errors, flaws is long.
    I did not infer anything past that other than I expected some posters to defend his government.

  17. D. M. Johnston says:

    Oh the joys of a Covid lock down.

    Many who post here call wee Justin an idiot or worse and I am afraid their political hate for a name Trudeau has clouded their perception.

    I have never voted for Trudeau the Younger’s Liberals and will not in the future, as I believe him to be weak; a puppet whose strings are pulled by the well oiled Liberal establishment.

    The current excitement over vaccines is not wholly Trudeau’s fault, as Canada has no national lab that can produce vaccines, which has left the country naked. The decisions of off shore manufacturers and politcal Nabobs has put wee Justin in a bind.

    Now Covid is dangerous, especially with the over 80 crowd, yet care homes continue to be hit with one deadly outbreak after another, which is causing the vast majority of deaths. This is not wee Justin’s fault, rather it is the fault of the provinces and their lack of attention to Covid in the early days.

    I too took note of events in China and took precautions, as we have a Chinese home-stay student. In Feb. I mentioned to him if he was planning to go home for spring break , we would unfortunately be doing the home-stay. smart student had already canceled his flight and asked if he could stay all summer, which he did.

    Yet during this period, government was allowing home-stay kids to go home at spring break, expecting families to host them when they returned! Later events changed all that, they wanted families to quarantine them!

    The problem now is lack of supply and political pandering.

    Agreements are pieces of paper, nothing more and bio-companies are adept in squeezing the last buck from customers.

    As I said before, the “Buck stops here” philosophy will doom Trudeau to an election loss if the vaccine drama is ironed out by the end of February.

    But what I am gobsmacked about is the number of vaccines that have been approved and are about to be approved all within a year of a global pandemic was called by the WHO. That, in itself tells me that the likes of Phizer will be more adept to meet Canada’s needs.

    My main bitch about Covid, is the number of people who just to not take it seriously and the number of people who just do not understand public health.

    (Response: Reinforcing my point about the TIMING of Trudeau/Liberals’ handling of the Covid vaccines … the PM announced today deals with Novavax (US) and a Canadian company (Precision Nano) to build vaccine manufacturing facilities in Montreal, Saskatoon and Vancouver. Production will start in the Fall … and will fully ramp up by 2023. That tells us they expect the Covid shots to become annual (variants and boosters?) and raises the question: WHY didn’t the government negotiate/sign these deals six months ago??? So Canadians would not be beholding now for the vaccines to the increasingly-isolationist EU…and the vaccine-blocking US. Trudeau/Liberals dropped the ball for earlier access to vaccines like as many as 30 other countries: talking a hundred million doses way in the future does nothing for those getting sick and dying now! h.o)

  18. NVG says:

    Myths of Vaccine Manufacturing

    By Derek Lowe 2 February, 2021

    How do you make the Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines? And what’s stopping “dozens of other pharma companies” from doing the same?

    https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/02/02/myths-of-vaccine-manufacturing

  19. BMCQ says:

    This does not give me any confidence as to when the Canadian manufactured vaccines will actually be injected into the arm of any Canadian .

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/federal-government-signs-deal-to-make-novavax-covid-vaccine-at-montreal-facility-still-being-built

    I also wonder if behind the scenes the Canadian Government and the PM have an indication that Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines might take a little/lot longer to reach Canadian Shores and Canadian Arms than what they are telling us .

    Any bets on that ?

    How many more Canadians will die because of he incompetence, ineptitude, and bungling of a “Not Ready for Prime Time Player” PM and his Government ?

    Canada is beginning to look more like Burundi, South Sudan, Malawi, or any other Third World Nation each and every early morning I head off to work .

  20. e.a.f. says:

    For those of you who consider Trudeau an idiot, I’d like to see some of you run the country or for that matter much of anything. Don’t know who all of you are, but about the only one I’ve noted who runs anything is BMCQ and he and I just disagree but I do suspect he could actually run other things besides his company.

    Israel had their people vaccinated in short order because 1. its a small country. 2 they have a first rate health care system and have since almost day 1. I can remember after the 7 day war they decided they needed all hospital beds for war wounded. A doctor from Vancouver, President of the Zionist League of Canada, assist them in setting up clinics so women could give birth there, freeing up beds in hospitals for war wounded. This goes back to the very early 70s. They were thinking outside the box then. It was necessary to survive. Israel understands any negative impact on the nation’s health may weaken their country. Any P.M./President of Israel would have done the same. As to Beni, in my opinion he has a nasty track record.

    Canadians have not thought about survival most likely since the Great Depression.

    N.Z. is doing fine. They have a population not much bigger than B.C., are an Island nation, and most of all they trust their governments and really trust their current P.M.
    It makes a difference.

    As to will Trudeau win the next election, I expect so. O’Toole just isn’t that appealing and if Trudeau rolls out a national pharma care plan, he is in. It will save individuals and corporations a lot of money.

    Trudeau may have though he had deals with other countries, they lied or got better offers. His father most likely would not have made that mistake. The federal Conservatives in my opinion are dragging a few too many racists around with them even though O’Toole has tried to deal with it. Kenny and Alberta will drag O’Toole down. Of course Ford may boost him up.

    The treatment of seniors in care homes is a national disgrace and in my opinion really helped give COVID a boast. Staff came into contact with it and out into the community it went. Several of these for profit companies now face class action law suits and the details are ugly. We all contributed to that.

    This disease much like AIDS will be with us forever. If we as a society do not get our act together it isn’t going to get better. We have to look no further than the church in Alberta, outside of Edmonton, 300 gathered for Sunday services, no masks. At least with AIDS you can wear a condom but for COVID, not so much.

  21. nonconfidencevote says:

    Well.
    If next months budget is as economically pathetic as the past 12 months of Liberal cash handouts……

    We will be able to use our money as toilet paper….

  22. Gilbert says:

    E.A.F. asks if we could do better than Prime Minister Trudeau. I believe so. Here are some tips:

    1) Do not use charity to reward your family.

    2) Do not interfere with the judicial system.

    3) Do not trust China.

    4) Do not forget Alberta on Canada Day.

    5) Be diplomatic in the presence of foreign leaders.

    6) Do not give the media millions of dollars.

    7) Take the job seriously.

    8) Do not praise Fidel Castro.

    (Response: Also: Do not announce Canada is in the forefront of vaccine acquisitions when we’re actually way back, around 20th or lower; Do not announce Canadian-produced vaccines will start to flow this Fall from a facility still under construction, when officials from the facility say it will be the end of the year or in 2022. This list could get even longer! ho)

  23. Not Sure says:

    Not Sure if this is completely on topic. But…

    The last topic was interesting to me because it dealt with moral/ethical philosophical decisions. Who do we prioritize with vaccines? I have been reading a little on this.

    In Oregon, they are vaccinating teachers ahead of seniors. Pick a side and argue all day.

    I read an article about seniors, and whether we should consider number of years left. Well of course we should vaccinate seniors. They are most at risk and deserve to live out their lives. Then the next question was about those in palliative care. Nothing is easy.

    More to the point here. What ethical/moral decisions should apply to the international rollout. Right now Canada is 81st in cases per 100,000 and 56th in deaths per 100000. This is way down the list compared European countries and the US who are mostly in the top 20, double and triple our rates. Should all countries be treated equally?

    Should the richer countries be able to bid on vaccines driving the price beyond the reach of poorer ones?

    Should a pharmaceutical company located in one country be told to sell first (or only) to its home country?

    Can a country or bloc of countries use export laws to deny a company like Pfizer from sending vaccines to other countries like Canada because the vaccines are being produced within their borders?

    Do all countries need to have its own pharmaceutical producers?

    I like to think that we are in the midst of a blip, that things will get back on schedule.
    Hopefully. But this whole rollout is just one more example of the problems this pandemic has highlighted about our non-pandemic society.

    (Response: The vaccination program HAS BEEN politicized: the government just doesn’t want to admit it …and the BC media are too naive to realize (or compromised to report) how it has been. Just take a look: the NDP government and their bureaucrats spoke LOUDLY about how BC’s vaccination priorities would be by AGE ..because the older people are, the more serious the effects of Covid and the likelihood of dying. Right? We all remember that. Then began the exceptions: EVERYONE (including teenagers, young adults etc) in remote/isolated communities got the vaccine … and most people understood why, and didn’t complain; so then the NDP expanded their preferred list, included ALL Indigenous people over 65 in ALL communities/towns, cities … living anywhere in the province even those totally healthy living anywhere in BC … ahead of others in their 70s and even 80s WITH compromised health conditions! And ahead of people working in schools, grocery stores, restaurants, bars, transit drivers … even many HOSPTIAL workers!!! How is that NOT political??? Still not convinced? Take a look at what happened last weekend: We were supposedly running very low on vaccines … not enough to give everyone waiting a second dose to get it … but then THOUSANDS of Downtown Eastside residents (of every and any age and everyone living in that part of the city, not just homeless and street people) were invited to FOUR locations and given vaccines. Again ..nothing to do with age … or health conditions and again ahead of people working in schools, grocery stores, restaurants, bars, transit drivers … even many HOSPTIAL workers. Just this past weekend. Read about it: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-health-authority-rolls-out-covid-19-vaccine-on-downtown-eastside-1.5895158. Now, I’m sure the government/bureaucrats would SPIN, SPIN, SPIN to explain why all these people (and who else we have not heard about!) are getting it before those in their 80s and 70s with compromised health conditions, but it sure looks political to me. And let’s keep it real: if you believe what Health Minister Adrian Dix and Dr Bonnie Henry have said over and over … that those who are older suffer more severely under Covid and have a much greater chance of dying …then someone should ask about ALL these “exceptions”!! And no doubt more too still to come. AND there is NO WAY that at least some elderly will get Covid and die while waiting their turn … while so many others have been getting invited ahead of them!! And the BC media don’t even ask about it!!! h.o)

  24. BMCQ says:

    Gilbert – 13 – and more

    I believe the Canadian PM is “Marching in Quicksand” and the more he lies and deflects it only gets worse and we will soon see innocent hard working tax paying Canadians in up over their heads in the PM’s Stinking Steaming Heap of Quicksand .

    Canadians need someone to throw them a life line .

    Where the Hell are his Handlers ? Where are the Adults ?

    You would have thought that the PM and his Minions might have at least represented the latest lie in a way that would be understood to say, “Well we have help coming, we have a solution, we have arranged for All vaccines to be produced in the East of Canada, the prairies, and B.C. thus ensuring that going forward Canadians., ALL Canadians will have any and all vaccines available for the future . Canadians deserve the best and that is what we will give them” .

    They could then say, “We are in contact with Pfizer, Moderna, and all other manufacturers each and every day to speed up deliveries on our current contracts and new contracts, do not worry, we will soon be in possession of millions of doses and we will get those doses in arms as soon as possible” .

    Then end by stating, “Within a relatively short period of time Canada will be manufacturing World Class Vaccines, some may be developed in Canada and that advancement will ensure the protection of Canadians for generations” .

    Simple, NO MORE Blind Promises and NO MORE LIES .

    Surely even those on this blog that seem to think PM Justin is doing ok must begin to question his intellect and abilities to lead more and more each day . “Come On Man” !

    Instead the Canadian public get lies and deflection .

    Just how dumb and stupid does the PM and his Handlers think the Canadian “Great Unwashed” of Canada really are ?

    Well, I suppose we already have that answer .

  25. Not Sure says:

    I am NOT SURE why I am allowing myself to be sucked into an impossible debate but I was surprised at your response to my last comment which sounded like a rant directed at me (“want more proof?”) about how various groups have been prioritized for vaccinations.

    There is no winning argument in those debates. Should seniors who are the most at risk get vaccinated first. Or, is the damage being done by closing schools and the effect that has on our children especially vulnerable children in disadvantaged homes upend that priority. I an NOT SURE if there is a clear cut answer there. There is likely scientific evidence to validate arguments for whatever group is prioritized.

    But that was not the point of my post. Look at the questions I asked at the end. I just did another quick google search. Israel has done a remarkable job vaccinating its citizens however …

    “Israel’s public broadcaster also reported that its government paid more than other countries for BioNtech-Pfizer and Moderna vaccines—at an average of $47 per person for the two-dose inoculation. The Washington Post reported in December that the US was paying Pfizer/BioNTech $19.50 per dose while the EU was paying $14.76.”

    (If I am reading that correctly the US and EU figures are per dose so $39 and $29.50 to fully vaccinate but still well behind what Israel paid.)

    Good for Israel for putting health ahead of economics but that was one of my questions. I don’t know what Canada was paying. Should we have offered $50 to ensure we were guaranteed our allotment. Should we be offering more now to ensure we get what we were originally promised?

    Can poor countries (thankfully Africa has much fewer cases of covid) afford these vaccines at whatever price?

    Should there be some kind of worldwide co-ordination during a worldwide pandemics or should it be every country for itself.

    Those are the questions I was posing.

    Anyway, carry on.

    (Response: When I respond to someone’s comments, I am both talking to that person and also addressing the other readers as part of the general discussion. As for your questions, I know there are some who believe everyone should share equally, especially during a pandemic, but this blog is entitled Keeping it Real, so let’s do that: if a country has pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into the research, development and production of a vaccine, they should have a right to access to the product first. Beyond that, I don’t like export bans of any kind; I believe the prices charged/paid should be subject to negotiation (competition prevents blackmail); and I believe both countries and companies have a responsibility to provide poor nations vaccines at highly subsidized prices or even free when necessary. h.o)

  26. Marge says:

    We now sit at 34th in the world for vaccinating our population, down from 23rd this past weekend and 12th two weeks ago. Guess who’s to blame for all of this? The Coward of the Cottage himself – Justin Trudeau.

    And shouldn’t we be ashamed of this or at least of Trudeau for this?

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-canada-the-only-g7-country-to-take-vaccines-from-fund-for-developing/

    Tom Mulcair said it well tonight on Power and Politics: “This is a humiliation for Canada.”

    What happened to all the promises the boy blunder made? All lies.

    (Response: I thought maybe I was being too critical and cynical when I wrote this blog, suggesting Canadians are fortunate Trudeau/Liberals aren’t handling our toilet paper supply, but with developments since, maybe I was too kind to the Trudeau/government! Why in the world it took them until this week to announce agreements to produce vaccines in this country under licence beginning at least several months from now. Literally too little, too late for the CURRENT pandemic. And all their boasting about how many agreements they had signed for doses… LEADING the world … but now lagging behind so many other countries, it’s an embarrassment to Canada. h.o)

  27. 13 says:

    @not sure. I have been trying to organize my thoughts regarding some or all of your “questions” It wasnt easy because some were just offensive and others seemed like they need not be asked. Thankfully Harveys response to your last post “being sucked into an impossible debate” pretty much answered most of my concerns about your questions

    Your second paragraph and question ” should seniors who are most at risk get vaccinated first?” How can you ask that question with a straight face? The answer makes up the entire text of the question. As seniors make up the bulk of the deaths from covid one would think the answer is obvious.

    Earlier you cited Oregon as vaccinating teachers ahead of seniors. Have you seen whats going on in that State? Oregon is a poor example of good judgement at any level

    Perhaps you are just wanting to encourage debate on the whole vaccine fiasco, and I guess its fair game .

  28. Not Sure says:

    13 I am sorry if you found my questions offensive. Some of you think the prioritizing decision is easy. Once we get past long term care facilities and health care providers particularly those in LTC and hospitals servicing covid patients, it can get kind of messy.
    I don’t think the health authorities are making these decisions that some of us are questioning in any kind of cavalier manner.

    But that wasn’t my main point. I was using that idea and the contentious discussion we had previously to consider how vaccines should be distributed worldwide. Within countries we can argue specifics but for the most part we try to reach the most vulnerable of catching/dying from covid. Is that how it works worldwide.

    Google “vaccine nationalism” or the “ethics of vaccine distribution”. Or maybe don’t. There is lots to read.

    The Canadian government’s biggest mistake as far as I am concerned is not having pharmaceutical production in Canada. It is hard to understand why today’s announcement was not made back in December. But here we are.

    But I am questioning the cost of the vaccines and which countries should get priority. Israel paid a lot more and have the highest rate of vaccinations. So should Canada have paid more. Should there be a bidding war for vaccines.

    The EU has its own turmoil. Is that why Canada has lost some of the promised vaccines. Should export restrictions be allowed when dealing with a worldwide pandemic?

    Is this an every country for itself problem?

    No doubt Trudeau deserves a lot of questioning and criticism. I just think there is more to this topic.

    Hope that clarifies.

  29. e.a.f. says:

    Not Sure: thank you for the information. I did not know that. Guess it is a bidding war much like we saw in the U.S.A. with masks and other equipment.

    Given Israel paid more they got their product more quickly. What it does tell me is the Israeli government either values their citizens more or clearly understood doing something at great expense was still less expensive than doing what other countries are doing. It also keeps their military healthy. In Israel every one goes into the military at 18 except Orthodox Jews and all citizens remain part of the reserve until 40. One could say the Israelis never did screw around with the ability to defend their country. They have seen what happens if you can’t defend yourself/country and getting covid under control is another way of defending your country regardless of which country you are in.

    World wide co ordination in times of a pandemic ought to be what the WHO does, but in my opinion they aren’t exactly up to the job and there is too much political b.s. taking place there. They weren’t quickly enough off the mark when covid started. Leaving it up to each country, well that would only work if countries closed their borders because not all countries are created equal, not all countries have the money for vaccines, and some countries are so corrupt their leaders wont spend the money to vaccinate their population. Then there is the problem of who pays for what on an international basis. Canada has about 36M, India about a billion, the U.S.A. 340M, Netherlands 18M. China 1.4 billion, N.Z. 5 and changeM.

    One solution, in my opinion is for countries to have their own research facilities which are government controlled. Yes, that will cost money and even higher taxes, but if it saves lives, is it worth it. For this country it wasn’t worth it to ensure senior care homes were adequately run, so now we have a whole lot of dead seniors. Was it worth it?

    Corporations are only interested in making money, so they’ll sell to the highest bidder. that is the job of the CEO–making a profit. I’m not saying making a profit is a bad thing. If you have shares in the company its excellent and a lot of us have money in the stock market even if we don’t think we do, our pension plans have money in stock. There really isn’t an answer.

  30. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Not Sure says:

    “More to the point here. What ethical/moral decisions should apply to the international rollout. Right now Canada is 81st in cases per 100,000 and 56th in deaths per 100000. This is way down the list compared European countries and the US who are mostly in the top 20, double and triple our rates. Should all countries be treated equally?”

    Other than Japan, the other five members of the G7 are in WAY deeper on their COVID numbers, than Canada. If we compare the 7 to buildings on fire, it’s no wonder the UK, the USA, France, Italy and Germany are ahead of us in getting the biggest fire trucks headed their way. They would not be wrong in saying, “We need more help than other places, (among those who have an ability to pay.)”

    I don’t know if triaging has been at play in the drug distribution… I suspect it’s more of wherever the drugs are made: THAT market is going to have home-field advantages.

    Interestingly, Japan is taking their sweet time on their roll-out:

    “The government plans to inoculate 10,000 health workers participating in trial vaccinations to confirm their safety in February, followed by an additional 3.7 million frontline health workers from mid-March.”

    https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021/02/48ecc60d35dd-update1-japan-aims-to-start-covid-19-vaccinations-mid-february-suga.html

  31. Baker says:

    Offensive? I don’t think so.
    I was going to stay away from this topic because historically the debate is driven by political rabies.

    Then I read Not Sure and G Barry Stewart; well-spoken and discussed, lads.

    There can be an interesting debate of whether to vaccinate those most vulnerable or those most likely to spread the virus.

    As the intent is to focus on saving lives, we should be vaccinating those most vulnerable and the health care workers most in contact with them. We have to work through those groups and then we’ll be able to vaccinate younger, more active, more likely to spread the virus people.

    Any discussion around vaccines and covid specifically, should include a read or at least mention of Katalin Kariko, the scientist behind the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine. Fascinating:
    https://www.businessinsider.com/mrna-vaccine-pfizer-moderna-coronavirus-2020-12

    (Response: There are two basic areas of serious potential difficulties with the Covid vaccination rollout in Canada: federal acquisition blunders … lots of hot air, but very little to show for it (one report says Canada is now 34th in the wrold rate of vaccinations) ; and provincial political considerations interfering in deciding who gets it when. I would opt for emphasis on vulnerability: that’s why I had no objection to giving priority to remote isolated communities where Covid could spread like wildfire. But looking at how it has been done since then, including loads of younger folks in their 20s, 30s and 40s who just happen to live in the downtown Eastside (not homeless, addicts or street people) getting it last week ahead of so many highly vulnerable seniors elsewhere in their 60s, 70s, even 80s sure looks to me like politics has come into play. And there’s no doubt at least some of those elderly, with compromised health conditions, will get Covid and die as a result. h.o)

  32. BMCQ says:

    Barry

    Appreciate the update and some clarity .

    It should not matter who one might vote for Federally or Provincially, the Roll Out is a Disaster and MORE Canadians will die because of the mistakes made by the Federal Government and the Prime Minister .

    Who was/is it that kept stating, “We eh are uh, ALL in this uh Together” ?

    Barry provides accurate to the point facts of the situation regarding roll outs and where Canada now stands, and it was only a few weeks ago here where so many were criticizing and shaming the USA for it’s roll out, when in fact media were keeping it a secret that the USA was vaccinating up to 1.5 million people a day, long before Biden even promised to give the “Jab” to 1 million per day . What a Sham .

    How in the world do Canadians manage to elect so many politicians that are mediocre at best, how does this keep happening ?

    This begs the question, “Do we get what we deserve” ?

    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-liberal-failures-on-vaccines-will-mean-more-covid-19-deaths-that-should-have-been-preventable

    Dos this make you feel “Proud to be Canadian” ? Once again, Canadian PM Justin at his very best !

    https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/canada-boosts-its-vaccine-order-by-tapping-into-supply-meant-for-poor-nations

    What did Canadians, alive, dead, and soon to be dead do to deserve the leadership we now have ?

    (Edited..off topic)

  33. Baker says:

    Make no mistake, I’m not defending the Federal Government, but mostly because I have very little facts to go on.

    But, looking beyond our own fence, I see all kinds of problems elsewhere.

    In the US, rollouts are by county and results run from disastrous to exceptionally efficient.

    For Harvey, from FL:
    Pinellas County; “I’m very dissappointed on how our county is handling things and a lot of older folks just can’t figure it out. Zero communication and a confusing web site. And a total free for all when they open it for more vaccinations. The way I got on was to monitor their website with 4 browsers and two computers, and was able to get an appointment on one of them.”

    “As a contrast, the county south of us, Manatee, you called once, got right in and they took your info and put you in a random selection. And, our northern neighbors did a pretty good job as well.”

    The Keys;
    600 doses allocated to Monroe County for the next two weeks, 100 for healthcare workers and 500 to be split between Islamorada and Key West. 125 doses a week for all of the Keys south of Marathon! That is very few jabs for the tens of thousands of people eligible in the Keys.”

    St Pete;
    “It was given in a neighborhood, I’d not normally go to in the daylight without a body guard. But they had about 10 uniformed cops there with flashing squad car lights all over the place… plus several security guys.”

    Snohomish County WA;
    “The roll-out here has been a disaster. Among other things, we have been unable to find vaccines for my in-laws who are in their 70’s. The clinics that do open fill quickly and my wife has been unable to even get thru and she checks multiple times per day.”

    What is puzzling but not surprising is, from reports I’m getting, close to half who are entitled so far, are saying no to any vaccine.

    This from a WA County Sheriff’s Dept; “In the squad I supervise, most are under 55 and some are in their 20’s. I can say it’s a mix; some want it, some don’t. One 29 yr. old female says she intends on getting it asap but I have one conspiracy believer who literally thinks the vaccines hold some gov’t tracking device. There is no getting thru to him.”

    Oh Canada!

    (Response: The way you point to VERY selective examples, you could have fit in well with the Trump administration. I prefer this from The Washington Post today “About 35.2 million doses of the coronavirus vaccine have been administered in the United States, according to data published Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.” Wow! I’m sure there are problems in some areas … but I can tell you this: I know SEVERAL seniors in Florida, including both locals AND Canadian snowbirds … ordinary people without special connections … who have already had not only their first shot but in some cases their second as well! While in BC ..no one yet (except a very privileged few) has even any idea when and where they will EVENTUALLY get even their first shot h.o)

  34. Not Sure says:

    The Conservative government of Manitoba is using an age based rollout to vaccinate its people but Indigenous people will be vaccinated at the same time as non-Indigenous people 20 years older. For all age groups, unlike the BC NDP who have only prioritized the single age group of 65+.

    “When asked what she would say to those who think the age differential isn’t fair, Anderson said the severe health outcomes Indigenous people face aren’t fair.” (Statistics are provided in the article.)

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/covid-19-vaccine-update-first-nations-manitoba-february-1-1.5896216

    No need to respond to this. I think we know how you feel. Just tossing it in for general interest.

    Back to this topic. https://globalnews.ca/news/7621318/trudeau-rejects-plea-premiers-vaccine-contract-details/

    Trudeau claims that the contract is based on quarterly numbers, that weekly disruptions can be expected (really?) and he has publicly stated that “Canada should have received 4 million doses of the Pfizer-Biontech vaccine and 2 million doses of the Moderna vaccine by the end of March” and “that enough vaccine will have been delivered to Canada so that, by September, any Canadian who wants a vaccine will have been able to get one”

    Kind of nervy on his part to ask the premiers to put their reputation on the line to help restore public confidence in the rollout. Anyway, we can continue to rail away at Trudeau and the government, but I suppose we won’t know until March to see if the targets are met.

    (Response: Trudeau and his ministers can spin and twist the rollout numbers all they want, but Canadians can read/see and are well aware Canada is WELL BEHIND many other countries in delivering vaccines to their people. We deserve to know exactly why nd how this happened …and a good way to start would be with letting us see the contracts the government signed. Were they willing to accept fewer earlier doses, later deliveries to save money … knowing full well that would lead to additional Covid sicknesses and deaths??? That question, exactly as I’ve written it, should be raised in Question Period! h.o)

  35. BMCQ says:

    I have just hard that the Johnson & Johnson “One Dose” Vaccine is fairly close to approval and distribution, I am also led to believe that in the USA the efficacy is over 70% less in some countries probably due to ethnicity stats we have seen .

    I am also led to believe that Canada is under a contract to receive just under 40 million doses of the “One Dose” Vax, perhaps any of you making excuses and creating cover for the Canadian Federal Government can arrange to ask the Canadian Prime Minister for a definitive answer/date when the J & J “Jab” will find itself in the arms of Canadians . This time we want the truth .

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/johnson-johnson-covid-vaccine-trial-1.5893009

    Not defending the Canadian Federal Government and the PM you say ?

    From where I sit it appears that you are and it appears that as I might expect it is you want to somehow discredit the U.S. A. . Talk about “Small Ball” .

    I find it that some here actually believe that certain participants are “Well-spoken and discussed lads”, just because those well spoken and discussed lads may be of the same opinion as ones self, hey, I might try that, why would I want to respect anyone that has a different viewpoint of facts that ae different than my opinion than me ?

    Guess what ? “Facts DO Matter” !!

    The FAILED (There is NO denying that FACT) Roll Out of the Pfizer and Moderna Vaccines by the Canadian Federal Government and the Canadian PM cannot be defended no matter how blind a partisan some choose to be .

    As I Conservative Supporter I could never blindly support a similar roll out of say Harper or Rona Ambrose, I could not .

    Was it not the Canadian Prime Minister that stated, “We are ALL in this Together” !!

    Canadians are dying, it is time for the adults to take over .

    …………………………………………………

    I have many questions about the Covid – 19 and how W.H.O. Government Authorities have handled the Pandemic, I strongly believe that the C – 19 numbers are skewed in many different ways, I also believe that a very high percentage of the so called C – 19 Deaths in Long Term care Homes are actually deaths by “FLU” being misdiagnosed as “Deaths by C – 19” and that is wrong, I am not sure of the numbers and government does not seem to want the public to know but government needs to be better and government needs to be transparent and government needs to be honest .

    Having said all of that I believe that Covid – 19 is real, I believe it spreads easily, and I believe it is killing millions and crippling many that actually survive the ravages of C – 19 . Some survivors are damaged for life, and many of those survivors are relatively young .

    For those that do not believe C – 19 is NOT real or even “Fake” I have the following suggestion .

    Please check yourself or an elderly loved one into Little Mountain LTC Home for a period of three weeks wearing no masks and taking absolutely no precautions and then report back to us on how you or grandma are doing the day you leave, either in an ambulance or a pine box .

  36. 13 says:

    A very typical Canadian response to any Canadian problem.
    Covid vaccine roll out
    Covid death rate
    Crime in general
    Homeless
    This list could fill pages. We have three levels of government that have to many faults and weak leaders and just pure corrupt individuals that they are clearly the cause of our inability to solve problems. Ah the typical response from Canadians that cant handle the truth is “Look how bad the USA…..” Have you ever heard that? Of course you have. Have you ever heard a Canadian politician use that bit of smoke and mirrors? Once again of course you have. Almost every comparison to the USA being inferior to Canada will fall apart under close scrutiny. Per capita , ratios etc. Failure of our leadership in Canada is much easier to pin point as our system of government is far more centralized than the USA.
    Trudeau and Horgan have each others back. Some where up the page Harvey provided Trudeau with the excuse for Canada leaping into action with Biomedical development of vaccines long after we need them. Will these vaccines need to doled out annually? Will the variants require new vaccines?

  37. helena handcart says:

    I still read this blog every day but I rarely comment. It seems that anyone with an alternative viewpoint from our resident, hard-hitting crack journalist and his cut and paste Fan Boys, is labelled with some pejorative. You do all realize that the first approval for the Covid vaccine was less than 2 months ago, and yet here we are…Trudeau is inept; Horgan is pathetic;, Dr. Henry couldn’t organise a peanut stand. Why not try a positive approach and support all those people who are doing their best to keep us safe. Standing by for a barrage of aphorisms from our pandemic experts. Keeping it Nasty.

    (Response: Glad you’re still reading It’s educational! For example, yes, it’s only a few months since the vaccines started getting approved … BUT remember, in those countries with lower vaccination rates, more people get sick and more people die! So if 33 other countries, getting the same vaccines from the same sources, have achieved a vaccination rate well above Canada (and BC), Canadians have a right … even a duty to question WHY???? h.o)

  38. Marge says:

    The United States have vaccinated 35,203,700 of their citizens as of Feb. 5. Canada has a population 1/10th as large which would put us at 3,500,070 vaccinated. Yet only 1,019,941 Canadians are vaccinated. Why is this?

    Guess who owns this and now is saying that the contracts are privileged and yet he ran his election on openness and transparency so of course we can’t know what is going on yada yada (read this as a lie of course)?

    (Response: His record is even worse than that: apparently there are now 33 other countries that have vaccinate rates better than Canada. Embarrassing! Especially in view of all the boasting Trudeau/Liberals did about how many contracts they had signed … leading the WORLD! Not quite. h.o)

  39. nonconfidencevote says:

    e.a.f.
    “For those of you who consider Trudeau an idiot, I’d like to see some of you run the country or for that matter much of anything”

    ++++

    I have run a very profitable business for the past 8 years employing up to 10 people.
    I’m responsible for sales, purchasing, quotes, client meetings, etc etc etc.
    Has Trudeau EVER done ANYTHING other than what was handed to him?

    I certainly know how to balance a budget, which he seems to be totally incapable of.
    I dare say the next few months will be the end of our socially correct, politically correct, gender correct, talking head.

    He’s certainly arrogant enough to call and election after the next budget….which will be more of the same……billions deeper in debt, higher taxes, higher unemployment as businesses go broke or flee……..

    My only fervent wish.
    May his polyglot “Finance” bobblehead doll Minister follow him into political oblivion.

  40. 13 says:

    Its a little bit odd . I find that those that lean left post and some of us that lean right respond or visa versa have two distinctly different reactions to one another . Trudeau and vaccines are a clear example. The lefties want their say and they want HO to stifle the right to make the blog more user friendly. If they dont get their way they leave. Youve got to allow the right to voice their opinion. If 13 disappeared because he found to much anti Trump or anti Harper or anti BC Lieberal sentiment at KIR my last post would have been 2011.
    PS another resume I was a self employed owner operator for 20 years in a cut throat trucking industry’
    Ive been a shop steward for many years and was president of my CBRT local in the early 80s . Safety rep for many years. I might do better than Trudeau

  41. e.a.f. says:

    nonconfidencevote, well now we have two people who run businesses. However, a business of 10 is not a federal government of a country approx. 35M No offense intended.

    Quarter backing is always easier. Balancing a budget is real easy. Its the impact of having a balanced budget which isn’t easy. If you want a balanced budget you have to raise taxes or cut programs. In the middle of a pandemic that isn’t going to work either way. businesses need help and so do working people. Have a look at Freeland’s back ground.

    As one of the earlier commentors advised Israel paid almost $50 a shot for the vaccine. that won’t balance any one’s budget without a big tax hike. No other country was near that. Its why Israel has 61% of its population vaccinated. Now we don’t know what Canada bid but I’m sure it wasn’t that. We most likely came in around $25 a shot. That is a guess, based on nothing. The reality is politicians first order of business is to stay in office. Everything is secondary regardless of party. So what is Trudeau to do, go in at $55 a vaccine. Now my math is terrible, but lets see if we round this off 55 times 35M. I can just hear it now. On the other hand, in my opinion it would be cheap considering what death costs. The drain on the economy is immense because not only do people have to pay for funerals, we loose workers from the economy and then the families of the dead have mental health problems and aren’t that productive at work and those who are close to the dead will usually require a month off a work. About 30 years ago gave it a shot, lots of lost money when people die.

    Most people haven’t had to figure out how to budget for a country, so in my opinion you’re all arm chair experts. Now BCMQ gets a pass because he has to do international business, which gives him a leg up on the business end of things. Still don’t agree with him on much, but he is a head of the game.

    AS to what have I had to budget for, well I did work for the feds for 10 years adn then for an associated organization and did have to work on budgets for a Vancouver Community center as a V.P., and housing co-op. How to pay the mortgage on 53 units is fun when interest rates are 19%.

    Now had we only been talking about toilet paper, it would have been much easier because there are alternatives. Just check your favorite history book and the history of toilet paper or its predecessors. Vaccines, there is no alternative. We either let the P.M. know we are keen to spend like Israel does or shut up. Don’t think any of the political leaders can do better, after reading a list of countries which are vaccinating and not one of those countries is near where Israel is.

    Now that Johnson and Johnson shot, who knows what it will cost. It has been reported its about 60 to 70% effective. Do you want to pay $55 a shot for that or do you want the one with a better effective rate.

    As to which P.M. could have done a better job than Trudeau, oh lets see: For the Conservatives, Joe Clark. For the Liberals, Martin or Chretien. NDP, most likely Lewis, Sr., However, I am still of the opinion Trudeau has been doing a fairly decent job of keeping the country afloat and the provincial Premiers ditto, well except Kenny.

    Now lets see how the Super Bowl becomes the Super Spreader because people will party and the disease will take off again and no politician is going to be able to deal with that. Its up to each of us. sort of like those countries which pretty much have it under control.

  42. Baker says:

    I’m puzzled why the Pfizer plant slowing production because they are expanding the plant, and why the unknown production issues with the Moderna vaccine are the fault of our federal government?

    We all want the vaccine and we want it NOW. But a few short months ago, we thought it was going to be many, many more months before there was any vaccine available, if indeed a successful vaccine could be developed at all.

    Then lo and behold, it was not even a year since we learned about SARS-CoV-2 before the first Canadians were getting the shot.

    I am finding it a bit embarrassing, the entitled first-world attitudes of some, bemoaning that we in Canada are falling behind in the apparent race for vaccination, from 18th to 20th to 34th.

    Maybe we should all just quit the whining and be thankful there appears to be an end in sight.

    So there you go, raw meat for the beasty boys, attack away.

    (Edited..off topic)

    (Response: You should read more carefully. I clearly wrote in my blog piece “MANY other countries, like Canada … where vaccines are also not manufactured … did MUCH better in getting vaccine doses for their people BEFORE the recent production problems arose.” So your wonderment at why many on here (and across the country) are faulting the Liberal government for RECENT production problems/delays is a red herring: not true! The FACTS are 33 other countries, facing the SAME production delays, are reportedly well AHEAD of Canada on vaccinations and have been for some time …even with the recent slowdown/cuts in shipments. And after all the boasting Trudeau and his Cabinet did about how Canada was leading the world in signed contracts for Covid vaccines, it’s fair game to question/criticize the government’s actual performance to date … which has been LOUSY! h.o)

  43. 13 says:

    @Baker, just a hint when you declare”so there you go , raw meat for the beasty boys, attack away” It could easily be argued that your trolling.

  44. Not Sure says:

    OK now that we are specifically talking about what skills are required for being Prime Minister, could I put in a plug for drama teachers. No this is not an endorsement of Trudeau. But for goodness sake, people.

    (Edited…off topic)

    Being a successful politician has dozens of requirements to make one successful. I don’t think it is helpful to demean or elevate certain occupations. Direct your attention at the individual for the job they are doing right now.

  45. BMCQ says:

    Nor Sure

    Thank you for your most recent post, interesting and the attachments explain a lot for those of us on any side of the issue . Not sure about Helena but I would never accuse you of being a “Paste and Cover Fan Boy” . A very informative post, sometimes a cut and paste says a lot without the need to explain in a single post . Some people are just not happy no matter what . Thanks again !

    (Edited..off topic)

    It is time for the Premiers of any brand to become MUCH more aggressive and explain to the PM they as Premiers are working for their constituents and in turn ALL Canadians regardless of their party affiliation . Then those Premiers of any party affiliation can ask the B.C. Premier why he seems to be so intent on not speaking up for his own B.C. Residents and demanding more from the Canadian PM .

    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-this-is-the-worst-canadian-government-ever-can-there-be-any-question

  46. helena handcart says:

    @13
    ” If they dont get their way they leave. Youve got to allow the right to voice their opinion.”
    I have not gone anywhere and you have posted 6 times on this thread. You are hardly being silenced. More power to you.
    @BMCQ
    Please do me the courtesy of quoting me correctly. I don’t even know what a “Paste and Cover Fan Boy” is.

    As to Trudeau and his performance. I would never vote for him. His handling of the SNC Lavalin issue was enough to strike him off my list, but I believe that he is working as hard as he can to solve the Covid pandemic for all Canadians and should get the support of all of us. I have a poor opinion of Ford in Ontario, but I watch his performance on the news and I am impressed at his caring, sensible comments. He is fighting for all his citizens.
    I’m not sure how helpful it is to post 8 repetitive comments about how inept the government is. (Hello Bob).
    All governments keep secrets.
    China with held knowledge of the corona virus for fear of stampeding the 11 million residents of Wuhan. Trump denied the severity of the virus for the same reason. The UK government would not allow any of their military disasters to be reported during WW 2 so as to maintain morale in the country. They are not necessarily bad people.
    We should try to be a little more understanding and supportive of the efforts of those that we have elected to lead us.

    (Response: Canadians from coast to coast to coast were VERY supportive of “the efforts of those that we have elected to lead us” for months and months: Trudeau scored very high in the polls; Horgan and others won majority governments. The people were completely on side … until our “leaders” started lying to us, deceiving us, denying us full transparency, and playing political favorites with Covid program funding, assistance plans and now the vaccine rollout. h.o)

  47. Not Sure says:

    I listen to the Munk Debates podcast. Wasn’t a debate today just a discussion between the usual moderator and a political scientist about the poor rollout. The political scientist was looking at external factors e.g. Canada’s reliance on foreign producers. The moderator pushed back. Shouldn’t we have taken steps to put ourselves in the position of having domestic production. Her response: Canadian governments are afraid to take risks. Britain ran the risk on AstraZeneca. It seems to have paid off. What if it hadn’t. What if Canada took a similar risk and it failed, turning into a huge waste of money. She says the Canadian public are unforgiving and the media feeds off of those failures. So Canadian governments of all persuasions are shy about taking those kinds of risks.

    Not sure if that is true but it is an interesting take. Look at all the second guessing going on here with other topics besides this on

    She also discussed the success of Israel. Not only did they pay a premium for the vaccine but they also agreed to supply Pfizer with data which she said was controversial because of privacy and ethical concerns.

    In a second episode the discussion was about the threat to democracy. One person said that the problem is not just that we don’t agree on what to do, etc. we can’t even agree on the facts. What actual facts are we using here.
    1. Canada is 30-something in the world.
    2. Pfizer didn’t send out vaccines while they improve production.
    3. Trudeau bragged about how well we would do.
    4. Trudeau sucks.
    5. Not Sure isn’t sure.

    What facts do we actually agree on here?

  48. BMCQ says:

    My apologies for the mis quote I was in the middle of a telephone conversation regarding the Broadway Tunnel versus the Cambie St. “Cut and Cover” I did get it right in the next sentence, please forgive me .

    I refer you to Harvey’s response to your post, the PM was doing very well in public opinion and may very well have won re election even if it would have been far too soon to drop the writ, correct Premier Horgan ?

    As to the Pfizer statements regarding a re do/rebuild of their production line in order to increase their production numbers ?

    I Do not believe they are not telling the entire truth, they had known for months that they were close to developing the vaccine sometime within 2020 or early 2021, they should have and would have made any changes necessary BEFORE the vaccine was close to release .

    Trust me, my company manufactures and exports $ Millions of Dollars of Union Made B.C. Product world wide and we would never find us in a position as Pfizer describes when they had months to make changes, they knew what was coming, they were well aware that they would be one of the first and they were well aware what the demand would be .

    Again, it is up to every politician at all three levels regardless of Brand including the Federal Liberals, all Premiers, the Opposition including the Conservatives, butespecially Mr. Singh and the Federal NDP Members to demand clarity and transparency by forcing Canadian PM to release full documentation of the various contracts with Pfizer and others, all Canadians need to know and deserve To, especially those with relatives affected with Covid, those damaged, and those dead, it is only right .

    Singh is key here, he holds power, he could take down the government and he should act on that if the Canadian PM does not immediately come clean, something stinks here .

    I AM SURE and Canadians from Coast to Coast to Coast should also be sure, this is not about your political brand people, this is about the health and survival of Canadians .

    I believe PM Justin has more than earned the criticism, from the beginning he has made a mess out of everything, from the Khan goodies, SNC, JWR, Philpott who should be in Cabinet, the Payette CF, and onto the latest, the unnecessary deaths and maiming of how many Canadians because of the flawed and perhaps criminal Roll Out of Vaccines .

    Yes, the criticism are warranted and earned, to deny that is just plain juvenile and not based in reality .

    Let me ask a very simple question .

    Just exactly what would you be saying if the Canadian PM was the “Bad Orange Man”, might You be a little more critical then ?

    Just thought I would ask .

    Again, this is not about political party .

    BTW

    NonCon is correct about the new Finance Minister, she is in the deep end and she only pretends she knows how to swim .

  49. nonconfidencevote says:

    Sorry e.a.f.
    Running a govt agency with taxpayers money isnt the same as a “live or die” private business.
    You screw up. You may be fired ( highly unlikely as a govt employee) but your employees sloth on.
    I screw up on a large contract. The company is toast.

    As for Trudeau…you have avoided the issue.
    Never mind Cretien, (who balanced the budget and actually started paying it DOWN), Harper, whoever…….

    WHAT has Trudeau done in his former careers as a snow board instructor, drama teacher and novice politician to prepare him for his role other than as a “talking head” who reads what is placed in front of him and acts appropriately concerned at the pressers

    As for his journalist “Finance” minister who proudly exclaimed “Its a feminist budget” when it was actually a fiscal update…….. because we havent had an actual budget for two long years and the previous Finance Minister took a long walk last summer in disgrace following the WE revelations……….as Trudeau shovelled $400 BILLION dollars out the door…..more than any other govt in the history of Canada.

    This country is facing fiscal disaster and a brutal recession.

    And Canadians, are standing at the Covid bus stop, in the pouring rain…..waiting for our promised vaccines.

    Trudeau is a disaster and the sooner he is gone….. the better.
    If he somehow manages to give out several hundred billion more in the March budget as an election vote grab and wins……

    May he wear everything that is coming.

  50. RIsaak says:

    I ran a couple of different businesses, recently a 300 employee construction company.

    The federal Liberals missed the opportunity to think forward on manufacturing of vaccinations, no excuses or obfuscation can deny this simple lack of foresight.

    No business would ever enter onto supply contracts without price & delivery guarantees, except a business being ran badly.

    The response by the govt. has been handled rather badly from the hurried roll out of cerb benefits (we should have enough govt. employees to properly have vetted all aid applications), to the lack of proper care home funding (google Trudeau’s promised 3 billion increase in care home/home care funding from the 2015 campaign). I do not forget election promises, too bad so many others seem to forget such. How many less covid incidents if he’d actually kept his word?

    Now we have an economic neophyte in charge of finance (her USMCA (nafta 2.0) is a rather questionable agreement for many, still no long term relief for softwood (Democrats like using this continually to target BC lumber), but hey a few farmers in Quebec got loads of govt. effort in those negotiations? Now she’s spending our grandchildren’s tax money, her track record leads me to believe we should brace for the inevitable messes to come, while we languish around waiting for the vaccines.

    My oldest brother was a covid casualty while in a care home in June, I know full well he had underlying reasons for being susceptible to covid, however my sister in law sitting outside his room as he passed away due to covid precautions, will stick with me for awhile.

    Then a health ministry employee at the gravesite to count attendees on his lil clicker the same day our PM was marching back east in a BLM protest in contravention of gathering size limits at the time? Justifying that behaviour only serves political dogma consumers, while alienating most logical & reasonable folks.

    Just my .02

    (Response: Really sad for the loss of your brother: I lost my oldest brother pre-Covid and still find myself thinking about him often … even wanting to bring something to his attention sometimes, and wondering what he would think of all we’ve been through since he left. You are absolutely right on about any business signing a contract without FULL details of price and delivery. It would be ridiculous … and frankly, I don’t think the red negotiators are that stupid: I believe they may have agreed to later deliveries to get a lower price. That would not only explain the very slow rollout here (Canada has dropped again … now 36th in the world in vaccination rates … but also the government’s unwillingness to let the public see the contracts. h.o)

  51. BMCQ says:

    Was/Is there not a “Sports Cheer” that goes something like this ?

    “We’re Number 36” ! “We’re Number 36” ! “And we are uh soon to be Number uh 40 or perhaps even uh Higher” !

    We are uh striving for the eh higher number are we uh not ?

    I am very angry and upset about all that has been discussed about the failed roll out and especially the very sad results of those Canadians that will be damaged for life or even die/succumb to Covid because of the poor decisions, fumbles, and ineptitude of our political masters but I cannot help myself .

    Make no mistake about this is a modern day tragedy of life . Not only should we be able to serve Canadians by providing a vaccine we should be also doing what we can to assist one or two nations people who are basically unable to help themselves, shame on our leadership, we must never forget .

    RIsaak – Harvey – My deepest sympathies . Too often I find myself wanting to call the people I have lost to bring them up to date on something only to realize a second or two later that is not possible, so I simply have a quiet word with them . Unlike too many on this blog who will not listen to me I think my lost loved ones can still hear me and in fact agree with what I am saying .

    I just completed my own survey a few minutes ago .

    My company has Sales Reps and Technical Support Staff in the U.S. States of Washington, California, Louisiana, Florida, and Massachusetts, a total of 18 people over 35 years old, all with spouses/partners for a total of just under 40 years of age .

    They have a ALL received at least one “Jab” and approximately 10 out of that group total of about 36 or so have had 2 “Jabs” .

    We also have 3 employees in Canterbury,Kent, UK who have had 2 “Jabs” each, their spouses/partners have each had 1 or 2 .

  52. 13 says:

    Trudeau has tested the limits of voters to accept his lying, bungling, lack of ethics and morals. Now everyday his grandiose promises on vaccines are falling apart like a cheap suit. Supposedly some premiers want to see the contracts. Perhaps the media might want in on this information.
    Here’s hoping his over sized ego has the audacity to call an election.
    As to whom among us could do a better job ? The answer is everyone and anyone. Except for Justin any idiot can surround him/her self with capable people. For 4 years now Justin has either not managed to find decent advisors or he isnt bright enough to listen. Either way the real losers are Canadians especially Canadian seniors

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