China Wins GOLD … as Canada/Western Nations CAVE on Winter Olympics

China’s leaders know us better than we do.

We TALK human rights; we HUFF and we PUFF about standing up against genocide; we HOLD RALLIES, MARCHES and CANDLELIGHT VIGILS.

But our leaders, our politicians, our corporations … and, yes, we ourselves as consumers … like China’s cheap imported goods, lucrative export markets and available bottomless investment funds far MORE than we actually LIVE by any international principles, standards or values we pretend to hold high.

And President Xi Jinping knew that.

And not even Chinese aggression in the South China Sea, China’s military threats and financial blackmail of Taiwan and any country that deals with it or China’s attempts to bully and bring Australia to its knees financially, the silencing and/or imprisonment of its citizens who dare to question actions or abuses of the state … or its illegal, arbitrary kidnapping and abuse of the two Michaels for more than 1,000 days will see the “democracies” actually stand up for what they profess.

Just read what SEVERAL Human Rights monitoring organizations say about China’s worsening human rights record/actions:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/asia-and-the-pacific/east-asia/china/report-china/

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2021/country-chapters/china-and-tibet?gclid=Cj0KCQiA47GNBhDrARIsAKfZ2rAQm6i_VYXdYMdU1pAjwNjvekSzpYUk9uYCjlCg_ec4IXKnCY0ShcMaAskaEALw_wcB

https://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/china/

Terrible! Horrible! Unacceptable in a modern civilized society!

With MILLIONS of victims!

Yet, Canada and other Western nations will NOT boycott China’s Winter Olympics … and our athletes, organizers and thousands of media will make their pilgrimage to Beijing in February to become part of the triumph of President Xi Jinping’s will.

A Gold Medal in Propaganda for the world’s largest dictatorship!

While a million China’s Uighurs remain in concentration camps … many tortured, sterilized, forcefully relocated; while hundreds of China’s artists, activists, bloggers and even their lawyers are intimidated, their works blocked or destroyed, as they remain in jails or under house arrest; and, while churches are destroyed and religious leaders/believers are persecuted.

China’s Winter Olympic Medals will be stained by the blood of innocents … but Western nations will get in line with the world’s dictatorships to pay homage and perform on Xi’s stage.

Watch how our own red-faced (how appropriate!) Western leaders will soon try to save face … announcing their countries will not boycott the games, but they will personally NOT attend the Opening or Closing Ceremonies.

Big deal!

(Probably more afraid of catching a new strain of Covid than standing up pathetically proclaiming they want to support Human Rights!)

As if Xi will care!

The images that China will send around the world will show hours of colour and pagentry; thousands of smiling faces from a multitude of nations celebrating in Beijing; hundreds of Gold, Silver and Bronze medals hanging from the necks of Chinese athletes; and, of course, dozens of videos showing the People’s Republic flag being raised in triumph … a HUGE propaganda victory for Xi.

China will be able to show off to its own people … and to the developing world … how its repressive governance, military-style discipline, strangulation of free speech and human dignity and forced domestic rigid compliance produces success … and how thousands of athletes and delegations from around the world travelled to Beijing to humble themselves and parade before him and China’s Commissars.

It will be a truly Golden event for Xi and China!

And a shameful display of the lack of REAL principles or REAL action by Canada and the Western “democracies” … just encouraging China (and its neighbour Russia too) to expand their brutality, increase their human rights violations and extend their military aggressions in 2022.

Let’s keep it real: through loans, Treasury bill and bond purchases, investments and imports China literally owns us now and has most of our democracies serving ITS interests more than OUR principles.

And none of the shallow talk and meaningless rhetoric by the politicians before, during and after the Beijing Olympic Games will change that reality.

How sad.

Harv Oberfeld

(Follow @harveyoberfeld.ca on Twitter for FREE First Alerts to new postings on this Blog. No spam …just First Alerts to new provocative topics up for discussion.)

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39 Responses to China Wins GOLD … as Canada/Western Nations CAVE on Winter Olympics

  1. nonconfidencevote says:

    It’s absolutely DISGUSTING that our athletes are even allowed to participate after the imprisonment and torture of the Two Michaels.

    Our athletes should be ashamed to be participating and use any excuse not to go since the Liberal Govt is, once again, kowtowing to their Chinese masters..

    I wont watch any of it and I hope millions will do the same.
    Let the advertisers take a bath on this one.

    (Response: I know some people worry that so many athletes have trained so long and so hard, it would be a shame to deny them their chance to take part. I say the greater shame is for them to take part … in view of the terrible human rights violations arrests, detentions, taking place right now … and for the past several years … resulting in the imprisonment, forced deportations, slave labour, sterilizations and even genocidal deaths of many thousands. How can we PLAY GAMES and frolic with China in view of this terrible things going on even as our athletes become [part of the Great Xi Show!!! h.o)

  2. DHV says:

    I can’t say I am surprised. There are too many in the West with vested financial interests in China and the Olympics to call for a boycott. Sadly, money and investment trumps ethics and the rule of international law. The Chinese know this, as they have been buying up this country for thirty + years and they know how easily we can be bribed and bullied. They also know that Canada, in particular, will do SFA to stand up to Five Star China as they already own a large part of our economy and a large number of our elected officials.

    I doubt the CBC coverage of the games will include commentary on human rights issues or China’s expansion into the South China Sea. It is very sad that we sold our soul to the devil.

    • Nonconfidencevote says:

      No no no.
      The CBC only wails and gnashes its teeth at the endless “wrongs” of Canadian “Human Rights” violations.
      Nauseating.

      China has to learn one very simple thing.
      You don’t demand respect.
      You earn it.

  3. D. M. Johnston says:

    Sad to say our Quislings in Government are goose stepping to China’s tune. One begins to wonder if the Liberals are on china’s payroll?

    They kidnapped Canadians, Let me restate THEY KIDNAPPED CANADIANS!

    Trudeau, as week as ever will sell this country out to win praise from Winnie the Pooh, the new Chinese Emperor.

    Disgusting, all around! Traitors all around.

  4. Edgar says:

    You quite rightly listed many of the reason to boycott the winter Olympics in 2022, especially for a Canadian. Personally I will boycott the games by not watching the games on television or following them on any media. I do wish for two things, one, a ground swell of Canadians committing to not watching the games, imagine if a significant number of people in Canada turned off their TV’s when the CBC starts the broadcast of the opening ceremonies on February 4/5 of 2022, and the second wish is that some high profile athletes start saying no to going to the games. A few NHL players have already started to turn down invites to the Team Canada tryouts so there may be hope.

    Furthermore, with Beijing banning all foreign spectators from the games you are not likely to witness any protests or unpatriotic events during the games. Hosting the Winter Olympics is seen as a major political propaganda triumph for Beijing and a chance for them to showcase their advancing prosperity, technical ingenuity, and general competence.

  5. HARRY Lawson says:

    Harvey,

    Did you really expect Canada to boycott the games? He’ll we didn’t even boycott Hitler’s games of 1936 .

    It’s hard to boycott the Chinese they have their tennacles in so many world a promise ,even if it says made in Canada it still could be owned by china.

    The supply chain shortages proved one thing we need a made in norh America solution. We need to nationalise and expropriate Chinese government holdings.

    China is making moves to further manipulate their currency .I see a time that they will cash in their treasury bills and bonds . Then what ……….?

    (Response: I thought we had learned from the terrible experience of 1936 Berlin. I didn’t expect Canada on its own to boycott the games, but I was hoping that all the Western powers, especially, that claim to be democracies and care about human rights would unite and boycott the games. That would’ve sent a very powerful message to not only President Xi but to the other dictatorships in the world… And perhaps, most importantly, to the Uighurs and all the oppressed, imprisoned people living in China.
    Just think what the message is now… That despite all our shallow rhetoric, the democracies are actually going ahead and attending the games. SHAME! h.o)

    • Nonconfidencevote says:

      Hmmmm.
      1936 Olympics in Germany.
      2022 Olympics in China.
      Trudeau will be the Neville Chamberlain of our times?
      Fitting.

  6. Gilbert says:

    I can’t say I’m surprised. The country from which the coronavirus emerged merely continued the research that began in the USA and in a laboratory built with the assistance of the French. The director of the WHO was installed with the support of the Chinese. The pandemic has resulted in the greatest transfer of wealth in human history. Those are not my words, but the words of Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

    In many ways, human history repeats itself. The Olympics in Beijing remind me very much of the Olympics in Berlin. Then, just as now, the world said little of the abuses taking place. Now western countries are becoming more like China. We have less democracy, greater control over citizens’ lives, and more and more government. It’s all very sad.

    (Response: Reminds me of Berlin 1936 too. We said “never again’ after WW II … but what we’re living is “never again, unless it’s profitable.” h.o)

  7. NVG says:

    Gilbert’s assertion: ‘The director of the WHO was installed with the support of the Chinese.’ not quite true: The World Health Organization says its director-general, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, is running unopposed for a second five-year term.

    And he won!!

  8. nonconfidencevote says:

    Careful Harvey,
    China’s spy agencies may file a Canadian Human Rights complaint against you.

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/csis-trudeau-china-media-1.6270750

    (Response: These days … that wouldn’t surprise me! h.o.)

  9. Gilbert says:

    NGV, The WHO government has the full support of the Chinese. No one else had a chance.

  10. NVG says:

    Gilbert,

    The World Health Organization (WHO) is not a government, but it is part of the United Nations and we know full well how they all get along, politically.

    As to your supposition that the Director of the WHO is supported by China, then that country’s name would be listed along with these:
    ‘The countries that nominated the 56-year-old are Austria, Bahrain, Barbados, Botswana, Cook Islands, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, Indonesia, Ireland, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Luxembourg, Malta, Netherlands, Oman, Portugal, Rwanda, Slovakia, Spain, Sweden, Tonga, and Trinidad and Tobago.??????????????’

    As it stands, there are countries, such as China and the United States of America etc. that have taken the position that they will not OPPOSE his appointment for a second term of five years.

  11. Gilbert says:

    The WHO Director’s relationship with China is long and extensive. He was a minister in the Ethiopian government when China provided funding for a number of projects. We also know that President Xi asked him to delay the announcement that we had a pandemic.

  12. e.a.f. says:

    Too many countries have business connections to China to back out of the games. However, if they did, they would send an easy message to Xi, we don’t report to you, we aren’t’ part of your country, get stuffed.

    As you pointed out China is so out of line these days, if countries send their athletes there they are condoning what China does to its own citizens. Countries sending athletes to the Os. in China might give a thought to the Chinese Government arresting some of their athletes and holding them hostage as they did with the 2 Michaels.

    Today’s news had something about the Chinese Ambassador telling Canada we should not exclude Hawei from our G5. This is Not the first time the Chinese Ambassador has given “warnings” to Canada. Who the hell is he to tell us what to do and not to do. He is a guest here and he ought to behave himself. Actually the last two times he issued “warnings” it was more like threats. Canada ought to expel him. He obviously doesn’t understand his role as a diplomat. He is not here to tell us how to run our country. He is here to deal with diplomatic issues between the two countries, not tell us what we can and can not buy. The Ambassador from China needs to leave Canada and quickly. His behavior is unacceptable. When it comes to China, Trudeau and a lot of others need to grow a set.

    (Response: China is NOT a partner: it is a bully …willing to use threats, economic strangulation, deceit and even kidnapping and abuse of totally innocent people to achieve its aims. And it couldn’t care less of what small to medium sized powers, like Canada, think of it. Giving Xi the glory of the Games … just like all the pandering to Hitler in 1936 … will only ENCOURAGE the evil. Shame on Canada/democracies! h.o)

    • DHV says:

      Sadly, under the 2014 FIPA agreement we are not allowed to even attempt to “grow a set” until 2045. Thank the last 28 years of “leadership” by both parties for our emasculation at the hands of Five Star China.

      They literally pi** in our face and we take it. We are dealing with a country that kidnapped two Canadian citizens for almost 1,000 days and we contribute our athletes as mere political pageantry to the murderous PRC? Insanity!

      I wonder how far the MSS is actually entrenched within the Government and corporate Canada?

      It is a rhetorical question.

      • Lulymay says:

        Alas, you are right. When it comes to the corporate world, democracy, or any “version” of it, is never a factor in the decision making – only profits. It doesn’t seem to matter which one of our major political parties is in power.

  13. Not Sure says:

    The US is not sending diplomats to the Games. Australia and the UK have decided not to as well. The US Ambassador expects Canada to be aligned with the US on China. Erin O’toole is calling for a diplomatic boycott so I expect Canada will ultimately decide to do so. Japan is considering a diplomatic boycott as well. Other countries will likely follow.

    Is that enough? Probably not to change China’s policies in the short term but it is a statement. Would a full boycott of athletes have accomplished anything more? Who knows without 20/20 hindsight and an alternate universe.

    I am long past being a supporter of the Olympics. Growing up, it was clearly a proxy war – very peaceful mind you – between capitalism and communism. And now it just reminds me of Julius Caesar or whoever said it about giving the masses “bread and circuses”. And it is worse with authoritarian countries.

    In the meantime. Biden was even harsher with Putin the other day, threatening him with pretty severe sanctions over Ukraine. Germany is threatening to close off natural gas from Russia. How much can we (democracies) take on at the same time?

    So, I am good with a diplomatic boycott as a start but we are heading into more dangerous times. The fall of the Soviet Union gave us 20-30 years of relative peace from Cold War tensions. Maybe this was a false sense of peace as we are not well prepared for current and future tensions with now two rivals. How do we navigate this next period of time?

    (Response: Two of your statements really stand out for me. First that a diplomatic boycott would be “a statement”. Big deal …when dealing with a leader/regime that spits in the face of international laws, diplomatic protocols, signed agreements (remember Hong Kong) and human rights (domestic and international). I’m also struck by your question: “Would a full boycott of athletes have accomplished anything more? ” Immediate results should not be the point. A boycott would show China, the world …and our own population …that we DO stand for principles, we DO act on them and we DO NOT just spew empty rhetoric … and we could then look at ourselves PROUDLY. The long term benefits would also be significant … China and the other dictatorships would know we DO stand up and ACT to support our beliefs and principles. Instead, we are now just encouraging XI to become even more aggressive! h.o.)

  14. Edgar says:

    Will do a personal boycott of the Olympic games, will not watch or follow any of the games. Realize it is just a personal action but it has meaning if a enough people take action and make the broadcasters aware of it.

    It will be interesting to see if the NHL goes to the Games in 2022, I understand from ESPN that they have until January 10th to opt out without a financial penalty. A few players have indicated they will not go for mental health reasons.

    (Response: Frankly, I think the NHL’s prime goal is PROFIT … not hockey or sport. The NHL is exactly how China views the West: perfect fitr for Xi’s Olympic Games. h.o)

  15. Stu de Baker says:

    The first mistake was allowing China to bid.
    The second was letting them win.
    The third was allowing athletes to participate.

    We’ve always known, but covid travel bans confirmed, the politicians don’t play by their own rules, so will we be seeing nightly snippets of “diplomats” sitting in the stands in Beijing?

    I fairly think so.

    (Response: I’m hoping viewership tanks. I’ll purposely avoid most coverage … wait until the evening news to see how Canada is doing. Except, of course, for the hockey. 🙂 h.o)

  16. Keith says:

    I won’t be watching any of the coverage including the hockey LOL, and like you Harvey I hope the viewership tanks.

    A list of the Olympic games that have been boycotted for one reason or another.

    https://www.history.com/news/olympic-boycotts

    China boycotted the 1956 games and did not return until 1980, along with the admittance to the World Trade Organization in 2001 the blurb that went along with both decisions was words to the effect the China would come from isolation to a participating member of the international community, which they have. Just not in the way that everyone was then gushing about.

    The hypocrisy of the Americans is astounding but not surprising when money is on the line. E.G. The NBA is a big booster of “Black Lives Matter” and other related minority causes. However, when China cut the feed of NBA games after players were criticising their human rights practices, the NBA backtracked so fast their heads spun.

    https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/columnists/os-op-nba-china-black-lives-matter-david-whitley-20200805-u2ehomqt7zdz5bsktjitg4d2eu-story.html

    There has also been a very predictable silence from the sponsors, not wanting to rock the boat or impede the flow of bucks into their accounts.

    https://apnews.com/article/sports-human-rights-watch-beijing-china-olympic-team-winter-olympics-0a442eb73644bfe22ee6bff795cabd19

    I’m not that bothered that Canada took a while to join the diplomatic boycott. If the countries that are boycotting are known to each other, more than one country announcing on the same day I would imagine would have less of an effect news cycle than a single country every day or so.

    Now the two Michaels are thankfully home it is now time for Canada to be more pragmatic on the China file, not just on Huawei 5 g, but on other issues under the radar. E.G. haven’t heard anything about this lately,

    https://nationalpost.com/opinion/terry-glavin-chinas-disinformation-campaign-against-canadas-election-is-undeniable

    So yea, let the athletes compete and hope there are no security problems for them, which our political types were umming and erring about in todays pressers.

    Also haven’t heard a word from the I.O.C, can’t imagine why.

    (Response: Thanks …really interesting background and info. It’s not just the US that is being hypocritical: as far as I know, no nation has decided NOT to send its athletes. Considering China’s record, Chinas’ abuse of people inside and outside its borders … the whole world should hang its heads in shame. h.o)

  17. R says:

    Canada has a China syndrome of 1000 talents

  18. nonconfidencevote says:

    @ e.a.f.
    “This is Not the first time the Chinese Ambassador has given “warnings” to Canada. Who the hell is he to tell us what to do and not to do. ”

    +++
    It’s not just Canada that the Chinese govt has berated.
    Australia, the US, Japan, Germany, on and on their rude, crass, bullying behavior continues.
    No Chinese ambassador say one word without direction from the Chinese leadership

    China’s new “Wolf Warrior” policies.
    (Wolf Warrior is an over the top , jingoistic Chinese movie production where the hero defeats protagonists …insert any evil corrupt westerner i.e. Americans, terrorists, etc. …all over the world. Essentially a 1980’s version of Top Gun….The movie is very popular in China and audiences have been known to sing the national anthem as the credits roll).
    China’s new Wolf Warrior policies are ugly , in your face, threats, demands and ultimatums.
    Google it. Quite an eye opener.
    China has played its cards close to it’s chest until now.
    The gloves are off.
    Their new policies are No more Mr. Nice guy.
    They feel they are modern, militarily ready, and rich enough to take on all challengers….all over the world.
    Why?
    Previous Chinese leaders after Mao’s insanity have take a long term approach in revenge at the West for it’s forced ” 100 years of humiliation”.
    Colonization of China by the West, Opium wars, their subjugation for over 100 years in their own country and on the international stage has built up a huge amount of hatred and resentment towards the West and it’s democracies.

    And now. Globalization.
    America and the West flocked into China with billions of dollars and high tech processes that took us 150 years to perfect ……to show China exactly how things are done .
    Because our people are too lazy and too expensive to build our own shoes, shirts, washers, dryers, tv’s and eventually cars.
    WalMart grew very rich. Hurray!
    China looks at the Western democracies and sees a bloated, aging, corrupt cow ready to be milked.
    So now we have a modern China with 1.5 billion people and trillions of dollars to spend.
    Flood us with fentanyl as pay back for the opium?
    Invade Taiwan and take their world class high tech computer chip factories?
    Lose a million soldiers and replace them with a wave of the hand?
    And what are we going to do about it?
    As we fight each other over politically correct pronouns.
    Pathetic.
    What will we do when China invades Taiwan?
    Nothing, except maybe confiscate their “hidden cash” condos in the West end?

    And that message will send a chill all through Asia and the rest of the world.
    The US as world cop ….is done.

    The Thucydides Trap.

  19. Not Sure says:

    The reason China has the 2022 Winter Olympics is because 6 European countries bowed out. Favoured cities like St. Moritz and Munich lost public referendums. Oslo and Stockholm dropped out for cost and political reasons. For example

    “Details of the IOC’s demands upon bid cities for its members — including a cocktail reception with the King of Norway, use of exclusive road lanes, and specific requests for fruit and cakes in hotel rooms — were leaked, and described as “pompousness” by one lawmaker.”

    Less favoured places like Krakow and Ukraine also withdrew. That left China and that far from beacon of human rights Kazakhstan. China won in a (some say tainted) vote of 44-40.
    nbcphiladelphia.com/news/sports/why-does-beijing-have-the-olympics-again/3070780/

    There may be some diplomats in the stands but not from the diplomatically boycotting nations. China is not allowing any foreign fans to watch the games in person because of covid and when Biden announced his diplomatic boycott, China said they weren’t going to be invited anyway.

    I totally agree with you that a diplomatic boycott is pretty lame. You are right when you say “Big Deal.” But it is still a statement and, at this point, I doubt that a full boycott has enough support worldwide to make it all that effective either. In fact the EU is having a hard time making up its mind on a diplomatic boycott. Countries like France want a coordinated response but China has already put pressure on China-friendly countries like Hungary and Greece so good luck there. Non-member Norway, has already said it will be sending diplomats.
    https://www.politico.eu/article/olympic-mess-eu-dither-winter-olympics-boycott/

    If the Olympics were boycotted this year; if we never had another Olympic Games, I wouldn’t lose a wink of sleep. All of those sports have yearly world championships so you can still watch those if you care. The Olympics is just an unnecessary extravaganza. Bread and circuses.

    We talk about boycotting and standing on principle. When I think of standing on principle I think of giving up something. Pretty easy for us to make the call when we have nothing to lose. Besides the athletes, who is giving up anything. You even admitted you would be watching the hockey games.

    Next year, the World Cup of soccer takes place in Qatar another country with a spotty human rights record. Canada has a great chance to be there. Should we and other democratic countries boycott those games because of Qatar’s record. Should we even be participating in any tournament where Russian or Chinese teams or other authoritarian nations are participating. Nobody played against apartheid era South Africa (except New Zealand) so there is a precedent. How far do we want to push this?

    To be clear, Harvey, I am not disagreeing with anything you are saying. But rightly or wrongly, at this time, a full boycott is futile. That’s not to say, we give up. What is the next thing we can do that will get China’s attention?

  20. nonconfidencevote says:

    The obnoxious “Wolf Warrior” policy China’s leadership has embraced…

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf_warrior_diplomacy#:~:text=Wolf%20warrior%20diplomacy%20is%20characterized,interviews%20and%20on%20social%20media.

    https://www.nbr.org/publication/understanding-chinese-wolf-warrior-diplomacy/

    Rude, aggressive and childish.
    Ironically emulating everything they blame Westerners for.
    It won’t win them any friends.

  21. e.a.f. says:

    The Os have little to do with sports. its a money making and propaganda machine. The organization is run mainly by a bunch of old men in europe who get to spend a lot of money and live the life of some one important.

    The Os have reached the point where most countries can’t afford the games and if they are to continue it might be best if there were perhaps two permanent sites for winter and ditto for summer. Facilities would be there for training, etc. I do agree however with a previous commenter, there are yearly sporting events to establish the best in the world for that year and that should be enough. The world has better things to spend money on, like health care, education, etc.

    Countries ordering their athletes not to go is one thing, but what would really be important is if the athletes themselves got over themselves and decided not to go to China. Athletes who go are saying to the world they don’t care about what China does to their citizens or to other countries. They say they don’t care if there are a million people in “concentration” camps, that people are persecuted for their religion, views, etc. Some of the athletes might want to remember what happened to the two Michaels and the others who are still in jail in China for who knows what. Just wait until one of the foreign athletes says or does something China doesn’t like. It would not surprise me at all. It would be China’s way of telling the world, they don’t care what we think or do, they are supreme.

    Xi is much like Mao. The rest of the world needs to be careful. we in Canada might want to start with banning Chinese money working its way through political and social entities. We were warned more than a decade ago by a former head of CISIS, about China’s interferance in our political arenas. Then they hosted a party at the B.C. Municipal leaders conference a number of years ago. That ought never to happen again. Mayor Moonbeam arranging for protestors to be banned from picketing the Vancouver consulate of China.

    Yes, I do like the idea of not watching the Os. and notifying the sponsors. If there is no money in it, they may think about running commercials. For this round its too late all the contracts have been signed, but it would be interesting if a major corporation pulled their ads even if they’ve already paid for them. It might be a bigger deal than the ads.

    • Nonconfidencevote says:

      Yep.
      Perhaps if Canadian Boycotted ATHLETES for attending the Olympics in Communist China….

  22. Eldon says:

    I predict that Canadians huffing and puffing about China’s games will still show up to watch the events. The numbers will show if we are all talk or if we just follow the lead of our PM and talk a big game.

    (Response: I sure hope you’re wrong … and hopefully the time difference will help keep people away from watching LIVE ..only catching the highlights on the News. h.o)

  23. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, I don’t know how many here saw the latest jaw-dropper from our new foreign minister, but the two Michaels are just out on bail from China, so evidently, we must negotiate very carefully with them.
    I try to follow what is happening in our little corner of the world and this is the first I have heard of this and surprising to many others as well. All I can say is, What the Hell is going on. I can’t believe we are having anything at all to do with China, never mind going along with the premise that these two men are only here by China’s good graces. I think it is time for our government, our athletes, our universities and everybody else to tell China to
    F-OFF!
    One question however, for our puerile Parliamentary Press Gallery to ask, how much did this cost us?

    (Response: under Trudeau, the Canadian government has very weak policies … both foreign and domestic. They cave to every lobby/pressure group or power … don’t stand for anything, any principles. It bothers me tremendously to see the Canadian flag still flying half mast ..part of Trudeau’s caving to First nations BLACKMAIL … and, internationally, we do very little to actually ACT on policies and principles we supposedly cherish. I could go on …a whole list of weakness! Sad! h.o)

  24. Not Sure says:

    1. I don’t believe the flag is still flying at half mast. It was raised in early November and then lowered and raised for both Indigenous Veterans Day and Remembrance Day. It has been lowered for the death of a senator and then most recently on Dec 6 for the National Day of Remembrance and Action on Violence Against Women.

    2. re: the NHL participation in the Olympics. The owners don’t want their players there. It was the owners who nixed participation in 2018. There is an argument with the IOC over who should pay insurance, travel expenses but the main reason is the fear of injury to star players and the disruption to the schedule. The players wanted to go and it was negotiated into the last collective agreement. So far Robin Lehner (a Swede) has said he won’t go citing health reasons. He has been very public about his mental health issues and he doesn’t want to be worrying about getting covid and being forced into strict quarantine for three weeks. Covid is a real issue for the players so we will see what happens by Jan. 10.

    3. The IOC is well aware of the controversial nature of host cities since China got these games back in 2015. The voting process has been changed. The next Summer Games are in Paris, 2024 Los Angeles 2028 and Brisbane 2032. The next Winter Games are in Milan 2026 and Sapporo and Vancouver are the likely hosts for 2030. Hardly controversial sites.

    4. I read an article about the importance of sports to China. The Olympics are a stage but the article suggested that isolating China – not sending or inviting touring teams, not sending coaches etc was something to consider. I know that isn’t splashy like a boycott but it is a start.

    5. Thanks to nonconfidence I have now learned a little about the Thucydides Trap and the prospect of war when rising nations challenge reigning powers.

    (Response: Good info! 🙂 I sure hope you are right on #1 … will check it out when I return home this week for Christmas and New Year! (Unless someone researches the latest before then.) As for #4 , yes, it would be a start: the problem is dictatorships that don’t mind trampling, torturing and/or killing their own citizens don’t react the way civilized nations do to such things. However, China … more than other fascist regimes … doesn’t like to be embarrassed/lose face … and several nations staying away would do just that! h.o.)

  25. e.a.f. says:

    Hello Art, It was in the press when the two Michaels were released, that they were out on bail. This enabled China to “save face”, and hope their own people forgot about it. Its something to also hold over Canada’s head. If their “bail” were revoked, it is very doubtful they would return to China to stand trial, but China would go to Interpol and ask for arrest warrants and then have them arrested in another country and sent to China. The two Michaels won’t be travelling far out of Canada if at all, forever. This maneuver by the Chinese government is why a Canadian Iman has been in a jail in China for the past 15 years. The Iman came to Canada with his family, because of persecution by the state, became a Canadian citizens, then while in another country visiting with family, China had him extradited and he was tossed in jail. China has kept a number Imams in jail for 15 to 20 years so far just because they are Imams.
    This maneuver is used by countries who want to stop specific people from doing specific things. Its one of the reasons Paul Watson no longer leaves Canada or works on the Sea Shepard or its equivalent these days. Japan wants him badly and by issuing these types of warrants, once out of Canada, they might get a country to extradite him or if their navy captures him, he goes to Japan and jail.

    China and other countries use Interpol to gain information on dissidents. the 17 Oct. 21 edition of The Guardian carries a story, “Has Interpol become the long arm of oppressive regimes”.

    There is nothing worth it in life to exchange what you have now or all the glory in the world for time in a jail in China.

    Although many blame Trudeau for his weak position on China, lets not forget the Conservatives. It was Harper who made 10 year visas available to citizens of China and negotiated a free trade deal with them. That free trade deal had a very interesting clause in it about China being able to bring their own employees in. My reaction was to “freak out” because that meant China could bring in their own security teams to “protect” their interests. You know how that could have turned out, but I have drifted off topic.

    The diplomatic boycott is fine but doesn’t go far enough. Many countries will send their diplomats and such because its a free trip for their supporters. Life for these people who attend these Olympic events is very “rich” shall we say. It is therefore that the people who make the decisions to award the Olympics to dictators, etc. will continue to do so. There have been allegations of bribery to be awarded the Os, they changed how skating was scored to avoid judges being able to make more political decisions than artistic ones.

    Given some of the countries which have had the Os in the recent past, it might be best if the Canadian government simply defunded the O. organization of Canada and put the money into sports for kids. Its our tax dollars permitting Xi to have his propaganda circus.

  26. Nonconfidencevote says:

    @ Not Sure
    “Thanks to nonconfidence I have now learned a little about the Thucydides Trap and the prospect of war when rising nations challenge reigning powers.”

    +++

    If you want to check out an excellent book about China and the US inevitably squaring off in a war read ….

    https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/09/united-states-china-war-thucydides-trap/406756/

    It was written 6 years ago and is very pertinent to our current international situation.
    A real eye opener.
    China will invade Taiwan….the question is when.
    If Russia invades the Ukraine….and the US intervenes….
    I wouldn’t be surprised if China decided to take advantage and spring on Taiwan.
    The US can’t fight a two front war against two huge militaries that can slug it out and are willing to accept massive casualties.

  27. Not Sure says:

    For nonconfidence: When I googled Thucydides Trap, the first hit was Wikipedia but I went with the second which was the exact article that you just linked for me. It is well worth reading for anybody else who is interested in this topic.

    It would be nice to have a couple of centuries to look back at the rise of China instead of living in the worries of the moment. I am not an expert on this topic by any means but at one point England was the rising power and used war to defeat Spain, the Netherlands and France and then used its military might (navy primarily) to make an empire where the sun never set taking complete control of North America and having great control over India, the Middle East and much of Africa. When the US began to rise, it expanded by buying Louisiana and Alaska but also used its military to gain control of land previously controlled by Indigenous people and Mexico. The US expanded its influence into the Pacific and much of Central America and the Middle East and not always peacefully. The threat of China (and even Russia) doesn’t look much different from those historical events.

    And right now the west doesn’t seem to have its act together. Harvey wants a full boycott of the Olympics and we can’t even get consensus on a less controversial diplomatic boycott. The US is not the leader of the western world at least not in the same way it once was. They are a divided country. Merkel is gone. Johnson and Macron don’t appear up to it. In fact they still seem to be sniping over Brexit. Canada is threatening the US with tariffs over the electric car tax in the US.

    Who knows what the future holds. China is not going to disappear but I am confident – well optimistically hopeful – that diplomacy will ultimately win out.

  28. e.a.f. says:

    Perhaps that is what Putin is waiting for, China to attack Taiwan or as you write, visa versa. Could the U.S.A. deal with two fronts at the same time? Not with out help. That is why it is very important for Japan to up its game. I’ve no doubt if China can occupy Taiwan, they’ll go for Japan next. Xi would love to be able to occupy Japan to even out the insult to China when Japan occupied parts of China.

    Australia is buying more nuclear subs. Canada ought to improve and enlarge the military because if there is an invasion of Ukraine or Taiwan our country will be expected to kick it up a notch or two.

    There is another aspect here also. Not every one has benefited from China’s increased propserty. The villages in rural areas are much as they once were. There are dissidents. its why the Communist Party of China keeps a million Muslims in prison. should China launch at attack on its neighbours, they could face a civil war.

    An invasion of Taiwan could be very unsettling. Canada had better get better and faster at brining in refugees, because we should expect at least a million.

    So all this war “talk” and the peace loving Os. Well if other nations don’t send diplomats its sends a message to Xi. He may re evaluate his position on an invasion of Taiwan. Not sending diplomats sends a message other countries are not happy. Unhappy countries may side with his enemies.

    At least NATO members ought not to send their diplomats.

    • nonconfidencevote says:

      I just finished reading ” The Long Game” by Rush Doshi.
      The author is no conspiracy theorist.
      He speaks Mandarin, has a PhD in Chinese Foreign Policy from Harvard, A degree from Yale, Has served as an advisor to the CIA, the Biden administration, on and on and on.
      It’s a bit of a dry read in parts but it breaks down the history of China over the past 100 years to the present and how previous Chinese leaders took a much more subservient, compliant foreign policy towards the West.
      China wasn’t ready to flex it’s muscles.
      Payback time for “100 years of humiliation” at the hands of the West.
      And our own laziness and greed will make it happen.
      Doshi uses obscure manuscripts posted years ago ( and now removed from Chinese Libraries or internet) by Chinese diplomats, military officers, former leaders to show why and how China will see the 21st century as theirs.
      Now.
      They have the largest army in the world.
      They have spend billions on upgrading their military equipment.
      They have spend billions on super computers and Artificial Intelligence.
      They have locked down their own population with ubiquitous State security systems and social “points” awarded or deducted for good and bad behavior.
      Any political protests or demonstrations …are not tolerated.
      Nationalist propaganda is hammered to the population on tv, radio and internet.
      No dissenting views are tolerated.
      Hong Kong was the test and the West failed it miserably.
      Next step is Taiwan.
      Count on it.
      2 to 5 years max.
      Quick , bloody , Brutal.
      If the West ignores Taiwans’ plight…..the rest of Asia will follow China rather than risk the same.

      Get ready, its a whole new world

  29. Nonconfidencevote says:

    People may wonder why investing huge amounts of money into AI (Artificial Intelligence) is such a big deal.

    I read an example of how the US dabbled with AI a few years ago involving a war simulation against the Russians.
    They fed all their current intelligence on the Russian politicians, military, etc. , 100 years of military strategies (friend and foe) into a super computer and asked it.
    “What was the most cost effective way to defeat the Russians with the least amount of life and cost?”
    The amount of data that was input was incredible. It would have taken hundreds of people years to sift through it and maybe come to a decision.

    About a day later the super computer spit out a solution.

    “Bomb an obscure theater, in a small Russian town, on this day”.

    ??????

    After they checked the results the programmers realized .

    Russian generals have mistresses. It seems a large group of Generals, officers, etc would gather every few months at a weekend retreat to eat drink and be merry and the ultimate event would be a show at the theater with everyone in attendance.

    Take out the theater, take out half the military leadership with a minimal loss of life and cost.

    Ruthless but succinct.

    During the second world war the Americans cracked Japanese codes that allowed them to know when and where Japan’s leading Admiral (Yamamoto) was traveling in a small convoy of airplanes from one island to another.
    They sent a secret mission of planes and shot down his plane, killing the leader of the Japanese navy.
    Ruthless but…thats war.

    I dont think we should expect the Chinese to be nice guys when it comes to using AI to defeat us….
    It’s a whole new world.
    Like it or not.

  30. Stu de Baker says:

    Like Not Sure, I had not heard of Thucydides Trap, nor for that matter, had I heard of Rush Doshi. I looked up both and also found this review of The Long Game:
    https://www.cfr.org/blog/review-rush-doshis-long-game-chinas-grand-strategy-displace-american-order

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