“Dixieland” NDP No Better Than Liberals on Disclosure

So you think the NDP will be better?  Open and transparent? Respecting the public’s right to know how MLAs are spending OUR money?

Well, be prepared to be disappointed.

The BC NDP’s “Dixieland” Band of politicians are playing the same tune as the Liberals: they seem no more willing to let YOU see what they’re spending YOUR money when they hand in their expense accounts.

Just like the Liberals, NDP MLAs want to tell you just the TOTAL of HOW MUCH they each spent … four times a year …. now pay up!

Read this … from the Canadian Taxpayers Federation … and see how the hopes of many on this topic are being  dashed:

B.C. MLAs Show Taxpayers Disrespect by Breaking Word on Expenses

“Every time B.C. taxpayers think MLAs will put their expenses out, they pull them back in.

In August, rocked by public pressure and a scathing report from the Auditor General on their bookkeeping, B.C. MLAs promised to finally make their spending open and transparent. Speaker Bill Barisoff made the most significant and specific vow: “Anybody wanting to look at that [MLA expenses] will be able to see receipts,” he said.

That historic commitment to accountability lasted barely two months and didn’t result in a single receipt being produced for the public to look at.

Last week, the Legislative Assembly Management Committee, chaired by Barisoff and made up of both Liberal and NDP MLAs, agreed to post quarterly expense reports online – but continue to withhold actual receipts, ensuring the public is kept in the dark on where public money is actually going.

For two parties who are at each other’s throats on nearly every issue facing this province, it is astounding that the Liberals and NDP continue to walk in lockstep when it comes to hiding these receipts.

Posting receipts is the new standard for political accountability. Toronto mayor and councillors, managing a budget roughly half B.C.’s, have been posting receipts online for years. Alberta Premier Alison Redford recently announced that her government will post expense receipts online for 400 senior politicians and staff, sparking opposition MLAs to follow suit.

The B.C. backtrack is another example of politicians doing the bare minimum to try and deflect public scrutiny. It’s a model started by the cabinet, who tout the fact they release monthly travel expenses – but don’t explain how many trips occurred, where they went, why they went there, who accompanied them or what they actually spent our money on.

The information is virtually useless without context, and politicians know it. Yet they wonder why there has been such a breakdown in trust between taxpayers and the people who purportedly serve them in public office.

It’s simple, really. Clinging to secrecy raises suspicions among taxpayers that our money is being spent in a way that MLAs would rather keep hidden. Why else would they refuse to produce receipts and invoices for observers to check?

There are legitimate items that must be addressed, no doubt. The Information and Privacy Commissioner’s concerns that MLA staff salaries shouldn’t be made public does not square with the fact that literally thousands of public employees have their pay disclosed every year. Still, the issue needs to be dealt with in dialogue with both the Commissioner and the staff. But that certainly doesn’t prevent other spending and receipts from being posted online.

Scanning receipts and getting the database up and running – or, more precisely, training staff to do the work – takes time and will cost taxpayers some money. However, transparency is money well spent, and certainly better spent on this than the millions spent on the Pacific Carbon Trust, government ads, JobFest or other wasteful spending.

None of these concerns are deal breakers when it comes to transparency. They’re just convenient excuses to back away from the commitment to put receipts online.

In next spring’s election campaign, when party platforms will no doubt trumpet great claims and promises about openness and accountability, taxpayers would do well to remember that both the B.C. Liberals and NDP have failed the transparency test.”

-30-

Wonder how … or if …. the NDP’s partisans will defend this one!

Harv Oberfeld

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39 Responses to “Dixieland” NDP No Better Than Liberals on Disclosure

  1. r says:

    solution= All transactions on credit card only.Then posted.

    Will Dix reneg on BCRail inquiry.?

    (Response: I doubt it..BUT it could be so limited in scope that many questions will remain unanswered. h.o)

  2. Barry says:

    I have a problem with this: the source. The taxpayers outfit is hardly a neutral body, but one with a very political right wing point of view. They are hardly transparent themselves, you can’t join it, nor see their books. I’d want someone to independently verify what’s here.

    That said, I agree that the public’s money must be wisely spend and openly accounted for. If the NDP’ers are doing bad things, hang them from the highest yardarm.

    In Britain, when all the MP’s expenses were made public, there was a storm kicked up and, if I remember correctly, a lot of them had to face the music. I hope the same thing happens here.

    (Response: Don’t blame the messenger when it’s the actions…or rather lack of actions…by the NDP MLAs to sand up for OPENNESS that is to blame. Will be happy to publish a denial from Dix or any NDP MLA if they want to go ON THE RECOD and say this never happened at the committee.. The Taxpayers Federation is NOT partisan … like the Fraser Institute … it just doesn’t like to see government waste or extra largesse…period…no matter which party is doing it. h.o)

  3. Gumby says:

    I`m glad you aren`t letting the really big stories slip by.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Liberals+thwarting+public+consultation+process+Burnaby/7442229/story.html

    Who cares about covering up the wholesale slaughter of old people with C deficile outbreaks when bike riders and BC Liberal dominated panels are fiddling around.

    Damn bike riding NDP tin foil hat lunatics running wild and destroying roads that belong to my SUV.

    That`s keeping it real Harv

    (Response: Now there’s a red herring… you say the real stories are “slipping by” and then you refer to an article in The Vancouver Sun telling the story!! Some slipping by. The purpose of this blog is NOT to repeat the “news” that is widely covered everywhere else …there’s an awful lot of that all over the place. We keep it real by DISCUSSING the issues brought up in the news or NOT brought up in the news …and clearly, on this one, YOU are embarrassed by your NDP. h.o)

  4. Larry Bennett says:

    The more things change, the more they remain the same – If I claim a tax exemption on my tax form and have no receipt when requested, I am sure to be audited, but whatever, I’m not going to get my exemption. There are things that all parties have in common, one of those things is a sense of priority, that they are not like the great unwashed, that they are above suspicion, and that privilege goes with the position.

  5. Burgess says:

    How is it that our politicos think THEIR ‘personal’ purchases made on a taxpayers’ funded credit card are just fine? The rest of us purchase our gum, donuts, and sundry with AFTER TAX $$$$. Oh! Sorry I forgot they are our elected ________. (Fill in the blank.)

    (Response: Of course, most purchases by most MLAs or MPs are quite legitimate …but unlesas the public can look them over, those who abuse their privileges are almost impossible to detect. h.o.)

  6. Ron R says:

    Re: Gumby // Oct 24, 2012 at 8:11 pm

    I`m glad you aren`t letting the really big stories slip by.

    http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Liberals+thwarting+public+consultation+process+Burnaby/7442229/story.html

    Who cares about covering up the wholesale slaughter of old people with C deficile outbreaks when bike riders and BC Liberal dominated panels are fiddling around.

    I had an operation at Royal Columbian Hospital in New West and contracted C.Difficile there (and I’m not old, if you think 55 is old), along with staph and cellulitis. So I got 3 infections while in surgery
    It took 6 months and the strongest antibiotic out there (vancomycin) to finally get the C.Dif under control enough to have cancer surgery.
    I wonder how many cases are province wide and not just at the Burnaby Hospital.
    Something had better be done or it could be on of your loved ones that will cotract the disease that they can’t get rid of, just get under control. I am now saddled with C. Dif for the rest of my life!!!!

  7. Ed Seedhouse says:

    Well, I am an N. D. P. Partisan who agrees that all public expenditures should be public, including all that is spent in riding offices. I am on the executive of my local riding, and have expressed this opinion directly more than once.

    But, though I disagree with my own M. L. A, ‘s position, that position is not an unprincipled one.

    There are reasons for it that have to do with parliamentary privilege. This is a long standing tradition in the British Parliamentary System and, for example, allows M. L. A.’s and M. P.’s to make statements in the house that would normally lead to them being sued and many members of our house in both parties are wary of diluting this privilege.

    I don’t agree with them in this case, but they do have arguable reasons for their positions.

    Parliamentary privilege is an essential part of our system and we should be careful when thinking of tampering with it. You shouldn’t, I think, assume that just because you disagree with someone they cannot have at least arguably defensible reasons for their beliefs.

    (Response: Parliamentary privilege extends to qwords spoken … and must be protected …. but it does not apply to hiding what they spend OUR money on.. like $12 orange juice or spending $150 for lunch for two. h.o)

  8. Crankypants says:

    The whole problem is that our politicians of today, whether they be municipal, provincial or federal, seem to come with the attitude that they are above accountability. It matters not which political party they represent and until we taxpayers insist on something better, nothing will change.

    It’s not only the monies each elected official spends but the perks they have bestowed upon themselves over the years. As Larry Bennett says, the government insists that we account for every deduction we claim when we pay our taxes while our politicians have the attitude that they do not have to justify pretty much anything. There is something very wrong with this picture.

    (Response:Exactly. And it doesn’t help when partisan supporters are prepared to excuse poor behaviour by their own while castigating the others for exactly the same thing. h.o)

  9. Laila says:

    Thanks for this Harvey, it doesn’t really surprise me at all to hear they don’t want to post receipts. And after all the fuss and apologies made by Horgan… well it looks like they are all back to their same old same old.

    A promise broken… and everyone should be asking why. There is no acceptable defense on either side for this.

    (Response: Hi, Laila. You make the point perfectly: no defense on either side for this! It’s sad that so many people have become so partisan ,because THEY are to blame for the fact that once elected, parties are not required to change…really make thinfs better. Instead so often just shovel the monewy to a different group of preferred friends and supporters…and then they all wonder why so few people bother to vote. We don’t yet how similar or different an NDP government would be…but this sure doesn’t bode well for those of us who just want openness and accountability. h.o)

  10. RS says:

    “The Taxpayers Federation is NOT partisan … like the Fraser Institute …”

    Surely you jest HO?

    (Response: No I don’t. The Fraser Inst. in my view is just totally right wing, partisan. The Taxpayers Fed does not like high taxes, government waste or shovelling money to friends …by ANY party…left or right. That’s why the public, except for those on the receiving end of govmt waste, generally believe and support them … the Fraser, not so much. h.o)

  11. RS says:

    Sorry I may have misinterpreted your meaning, as in “The Taxpayers Federation is NOT partisan…like the Fraser Institute…” interpreted as, Like the Taxpayers Federation the Fraser Institute is not partisan. My bad! Though I don’t think even the Taxpayers Fed can be completely without bias.

    Did you see this?
    http://2010goldrush.blogspot.ca/

    (Response: I understand and agree even the Tax Fed have a certain leaning …cut, cut, cut …but I don’t fimd them partisan in a particular party kind of way…. just cheap with our bucks! 🙂 h.o)

  12. Ed Seedhouse says:

    “Parliamentary privilege extends to qwords spoken … and must be protected …. but it does not apply to hiding what they spend OUR money on.. like $12 orange juice or spending $150 for lunch for two. h.o”

    I believe you are wrong on the facts here, Harv. Check out the Wikipedia article at “http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliamentary_privilege” and especially the section on Canada. In particular “Regulation of the House’s internal affairs” and
    “Management of Employees” are included specifically in Canada and this can certainly be interpreted as a privilege of keeping the internal details of these activities secret, and in fact IS so applied at the Federal level. What applies Federally applies by extension to the provincial legislatures.

    I disagree with this, and think it should be changed, both Federally and Provincially, but there is more nuance here than you are giving credit for, in my opinion.

    (Response: Very interesting! And if you’re right, makes me even more concerned about how much the politicians …of any party …can hide from the taxpayers! Frightening …and unjust, when it comes to them spending money we provided them. h.o)

  13. Diverdarren says:

    You’re absolutely right Harvey, there is no defensible argument to make in regard to the Gov. not releasing full disclosure of public monies.

    I’m not sure (maybe somebody else knows) how the office of the Auditor General came to be. I’m sure Gov. rues the day that the AG Office was enacted. I’d bet they would love to get rid of the last oversight of how they spend our $.

    Lets hear from the parties about emboldening the scope of the AG, but I wont hold my breath for that.

    We need a Provincial constitution to hold Government accountable back to the people. Simple legislation is not enough. Just look at the liberal balanced budget law, that went out the window when it wasn’t convenient .

    (Response: I’m not sure if a provincial constitution would be legal…esp if it contravened some federal constitutional rules. But I agree if it’s possible, something better than a bit of legislation would be great! h.o)

  14. Keith E. says:

    Hi Harvey,

    apologies for going completely off the subject but in response to your post from a while ago regarding Conrad Black and his Order of Canada.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/story/2012/10/25/conrad-black-hearing-bid-order-canada-dismissed.html

    (Response: Thanks…best news I’ve seen in a long time! However, they are still condidering whether to let this crook keep his award. If he does, it will reduce the Order of Canada to ridicule. h.o)

  15. kootcoot says:

    Too bad you’ve retired Harvey. you would fit in to today’s (irony alert) journalism just fine. Today you regurgitate crap from the Canadian Taxpayer’s Federation, what’s up for tomorrow, a press release from the Fraser Institute or perhaps the Canadian Citizen’s Coalition?

    I always found it difficult to give credence to an organization who constantly says taxes bad but ignores the elephant in the room which is who pays what share of the taxes. Taxes will be necessary unless we decide to take the route of anarchy, which might be an improvement. Taxes are necessary, well unless we don’t want roads, food safety, education and even law enforcement. If we eliminated all taxes, my neighbors and I would prosper more than all of you huddled together in the Lower Vainland, without a doubt!

    But I guess you are right, that the Federation is non-partisan, after all, an organization once led by Jason Kenney, or having former Harper aide, and former Christy Clark aide as the former (Miss former former for sure) BC Director couldn’t hardly be accused of being partisan, could they?

    Current director Kevin Lacey has worked both in the PMO under Harper (2006-2008) and the Fraser Institute, while current director Derek Fildebrandt, while at Carleton founded the Reagan-Goldwater Society whose purpose was to uproot the socialistic/commie leanings among the academic staff and student body.

    Other former directors include:

    John Carpey – Reform Party candidate in Burnaby – Kingsway in the 90’s
    Walter Robinson – PsuedoCon candidate 2004
    Tasha Kheiriddin – ministerial aide in Mike Harris’ government in Ontario.

    It is also interesting to note the regular cross fertilization between the CTF and the Fraser Institute. But neither organization is really partisan are they Harv? At least both organizations save journalists, both active and retired, from actually having to do any kind of journalistic research – copying and pasting being so much less taxing than reporting or even thinking.

    I look forward to when you return to Getting Real!

    As to the commenter above who thought the use of credit cards might help the situation, I thought (except maybe constituency office budgets) that was how most ministerial and ministerial spending on things like Ida Chong’s lunch or Christy Clarks world tours to find out if she is a Filipino, Indian or Chinese were done already.

    (Response: Your response shows very clearly what’s wrong with politics in BC. You dson’t seem to mind when I go after Christy or the Liberals ..BUT let anyone EXPOSE the hypocrisy of the NDP ….saying they want open, transparent government …but fighting like hell to oppose it in committee…. and then the messenger is the problem and what they expose is “crap”. Government in BC will NEVER get better if biased partisans can’t see and demand change to the hypocritical stands taken by politicians of the party they support. THEY aRE THE PROBLEM …MORE than ordinary voters who just stay away.h.o.)

  16. r says:

    How about stronger auditor general for bc- like federal level.

    why would NDP limit scope of BCRail inquiry(Motive?).Basi/Virk now free?testify?

    (Response: One reason could be cost. And who knows what else they might not want to expose? h.o)

  17. Ed Seedhouse says:

    “Response: I’m not sure if a provincial constitution would be legal…esp if it contravened some federal constitutional rules”

    Technically, B.C. does have a constitution, namely the “Constitution Act of 1996”.

    It is, however, an act of the Provincial legislature and may be amended in the legislature by majority vote. It is also subject to the constitution of Canada, as are all the acts enacted by any provincial or territorial legislature.

    It is rather like Diefenbaker’s “Bill of Rights” which could be amended by parliament at any time by simple majority vote, and thus never had any real effect.

    The “real” constitutions of the provinces is contained in the repatriated constitution of Canada and not even the Federal government has the power to change them except by the amending formula contained in the document, which as I am sure you know, basically makes constitutional amendments about impossible in Canada.

  18. Barry says:

    Harve:

    What I was getting was the old journalistic saying that if your mother tells you she loves you, check it out…

    I wouldn’t trust anything this outfit, nor for that matter a lot of other outfits said unless I could verify everything independently. If then it checks out, then print it.

    Given the already pointed out links between the taxpayers and the Cons federally and the Libs provincially, I would have extreme doubts about anything they said about anybody.

    This is the type of “journalism” I’ve heard you bash; press release reprints. From someone of your acknowledged stature in the industry, I expect better.

  19. kootcoot says:

    ” You dson’t seem to mind when I go after Christy or the Liberals ..BUT let anyone EXPOSE the hypocrisy of the NDP”

    Of course I don’t mind when you go after Christy or the BC liaRs, it ain’t like they don’t have 200-300 PR flacks putting lipstick on them not to mention an MSM that worships the pillows they sit on. But I do take issue with a press that will ignore the theft of a railroad, the destruction of BC Hydro and manipulation of BC Ferries, yet scream from the roof tops for years about a small deck in East Vancouver, or the Fast Ferries or the imaginary black days of the nineties in the name of some kind of phoney “balance.”

    I’m not that happy with the NDP either, or Obama, but with the alternatives being so gruesome (not being a one percenter myself) I have to either support the lesser evil or take up arms. Suicide is not an option. It is difficult to imagine that the NDP in opposition can fleece the taxpayer’s pocket book in any meaningful way compared to the pirates that have been plundering the province for over a decade now.

    You may have missed my point also that you were following modern journalistic standards of just copying and pasting what is essentially a press release from a highly partisan organization, with very little, if any, discussion or analysis of your own, other than a visible expression of glee at finding an issue that also can be used to beat up those turrible dippers.

    I get it Harv, you don’t like dippers, bikers and most Quebeckers. It would seem too that you don’t really like writing all that much either, now that you are retired, so why not just copy and paste, hell, that’s all the current so-called journalist do, for the most part.

  20. Gumby says:

    Jordan Bateman, the one time Langley/BC Liberal prompter. I recall Jordan critisized Gordon Campbell over the HST, a week later his balls shrunk and he apologized to Campbell and Colin Hansen.
    Bateman is out his league, are the NDP any better?

    Spending scandals at every ministry, BC Housing, CLBC, BC Hydro, BC Ferries, Translink, Wally Oppal spending his way to a legacy fund, HST stickmen, Jobs advertising.

    $billions gone through BC Liberal Governance, or lack thereof.

    Bill Barisoff was ordered to fix the problem, he didn`t.

    $700 million on a sometimes retractable roof.

    Jordon nibbles bits of cheese while pizzas, steaks, martinis and suitcases of whine walk out the unlocked backdoor, maybe Jordan Bateman will weigh in on the $300 million fare-gate boondoggle.

    Harvey, can`t we stay on point, you know, them goddamn bike riding liberal facist road hogging spandex wearing Euro-trash two wheel riding province destroying tin foil hat wearing Visionistas?

    (Response: Absolutely amazing at how hard you try to discredit the messenger and everyone else…except the scurilous actions of the NDP MLAs oin this one!!!! Face it!! The NDP MLAs on this committee are the ones voters should be really concerned abourt…are they going to be any different when it comes to openness and transparency or just a new bunch of liars who preach one thing before they are elected and do the opposite if they get a chance? h.o)

  21. r says:

    In BC Mr Heyman criticized the ruling Liberal party for a “$2 billion tax shift to wealthy corporations

    Read more: http://www.vancourier.com/Environmentalist+defeats+high+profile+city+councillor+nomination+Vancouver+Fairview+riding/7427106/story.html#ixzz2AM1wqqEw

  22. 13 says:

    Harvey, if it is this blatant wait until the NDP get elected. Your going to need a flak jacket.

    (Response: Isn’t it amazing how biased and partisan some people are that they dsimply can’t bring themselves to criticise even blatantly wrong actions. THEY are the reason politicians get away with so much …and regardless of party, are seldom held accountable for disrespecting the taxpayers. h.o)

  23. Larry Bennett says:

    Ron R. – God bless, keep positive, I can’t even begin to imagine what you went through. I had bypass at 36 but was probably too young and dumb to die!

  24. crh says:

    and say this never happened at the committee.. The Taxpayers Federation is NOT partisan … like the Fraser Institute … it just doesn’t like to see government waste or extra largesse…period…no matter which party is doing it. h.o) LOL Harv, you have just provided me with the biggest laugh of the evening. Please do some research into who the Taxpayers Federation is. A board of a bunch of right wingers who elect themselves. As for the Fraser Institute, well I just can’t even go there. These guys are so partisan, I can’t drink their kool aid without going east. Who funds the FI??

    (Response: Again, why are you so much more consumed about who publicised this hypocrisy by the NDP than the disgraceful actions of the NDP MLAs who agreed with the Libs NOT to allow the public to see the bills? That’s the treachery by those who claim to wanyt more openness and transparency in government. Quite amusing, actually, to see their biased partisdan followers unwilling to deal with the reality! h.o)

  25. Gumby says:

    Lucky for us Larry you were too dumb to die.

    For without you where we would we get our spittle.

  26. kootcoot says:

    “The NDP MLAs on this committee are the ones voters should be really concerned abour (sic)”
    “the disgraceful actions of the NDP MLAs who agreed with the Libs”

    Unless I’ve lost my mind, as I recall the government has a majority on and chairs all committees so perhaps you can tell me what the NDP could do – especially in a province where the Legislature sits empty over 300 days a year and all legislation is introduced and forced through during the last 48-72 hours of the rare sitting.

    I get it Harv, all that’s evil in BeeCee is the fault of the NDP, let’s re-elect the BC liaRs and all will be well – as long as we don’t let the NDP have even two seats. Obviously letting any NDP mice in the House destroys the wonderful agenda that the BC liaRs would like to implement.

    All will be purr-fect once we elect a Christy majority with a Second Cummins opposition.

    Perhaps your should go to Whistler this weekend and find how how the good guys are going to protect us from the evil NDP!

    (Response: Again, interesting how NDP supporters try to slide around the point…that the NDP MLAs did NOT stand up for transparency and openness! Yes, the Libs have a majority;yes,the Legislature does not sit all year; and No,I never said it will not be all be better by re-electing them. Just trying to keep it real and point out, in this case, despite all the promises spread by the NDP and their supporters that they believe in open government and the public’s right to know …they DID NOT stand up and were JUST AS BAD as the Libs in denying our right to see what they’re spending our dollars on. It amazes me that NDP supporters are so blind and so brainwashed they just cant bring themselves to say the NDP MLAs were wrong…even when they so obviously were! h.o)

  27. JR says:

    Harvey. I am also disappointed that the NDP members of this committee did not stand up for the right thing. I am an NDPer from way back, helped in elections in the early 70’s, and still support them but this is just wrong. There is NO justification for keeping these expenses under wraps. If I put in an expense without a receipt I am SOL. Anything I expense MUST be totally above board. This decision just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I will still vote for the NDP considering what the BC Liberals have done to our beautiful Province but you are correct in this one. Transparency means being able to see what is going on. This is not transparent.

    (Response: YOU are exactly what we need more of in BC if this province is to become a better place politically. BRAVO!! We have too many sycophants on both sides of the political spectrum who are so sadly prejudiced that they defend those who do wrong as long as they are from “their” party. They are pathetically partisan …and responsible for the type of governments we’ve endured for 20 years. It’s people like you …and I … who can make things better by DEMANDING open and transparent honest government, even from the party we would vote for, not just the other side. h.o)

  28. Dead Dog Hank says:

    Harv,

    I think you may have missed the point on a number of these responses. It not the fact that the NDP members shirked their responsibilities to the public by not standing up to the Government and voting against the provision. I was disappointed that you cut and pasted a press release into your blog. A link would have been adequate. I find your distillation of press releases to be insightful. In this instance you didn’t do that and I suspect are paying the piper for it.

    The Mainstream press in this province is all about press releases. I come to yours and others to get away from the pap that is put out by all parts of the political spectrum.

    Thanks for trying to keep it real.

    (Response: I don’t often do that…but occasionally, on issues laid bare by others, I’m happy to give them the forum and the credit for doing so. And then of course, the discussion that takes place afterwards…read by thousands around the province …accomplish my ultimnate goal … to get people thinking, talking and expressing themsleves, even if they disagree. h.o)

  29. Laila says:

    I find it appalling that people I know and have worked with, defend the NDP in this crap.

    As you know, I have long blogged in defense of this province. Long… and hard. But I can not defend a blind eye to the NDP…. just to get rid of the Liberals, and this has made me a target of many and NDP’er with a modem….

    Truth is subjective. Your truth may not be mine, but FACT is indisputable.

    I dare anyone who loves this province as much as I do, who was born and raised here, and who may or may not have lived backwoods, hunting, fishing and respecting what natural resources we have, to deny this truth. If the NDP were outvoted, then they could have created a press opp out of the vote and used it, but they did not.

    I have to ask why. And so should everyone else.

    Did this committee get ambushed… or was it complicit?

    (Response: Of course, anyone’s disappointment …or disgust…at the NDP MLAs going along doesn’t mean they’ll vote for another party. But it shows some are honest and principled enough to take a stand on principle …not just interested in spewing all kinds of false statements and prpoises just to get elected…and then do the same crud as those they replaced…cashing in at the trough paid for by BC voters. h.o)

  30. kootcoot says:

    “they could have created a press opp out of the vote and used it, but they did not.”

    Laila, I’m surprised that you don’t seem to recall that it takes press participation to create a press op and they will only do so generally if it discredits the NDP (forget the Librul/left wing press false meme – all but one Canadian daily endorsed Harper and every media outlet in BC except the small potato Tyee endorses the BC liaRs or whatever the same right wing pirates are calling themselves this month).

    The BC MSM could only talk about Carole Jame’s hair and the stormy conditions when she was attempting to illustrate the Rape of the Rivers from the air. Adrian Dix in a Sky Train station without a valid ticket, a little deck in East Van and so on – that is an NDP press op. Meanwhile railroads are handed out the back door to supporters, BC Hydro and BC Ferries are driven to bankruptcy while Liberal supporters collect carbon tax rebates at the expense of school district budgets yet Lucinda Chodan, Keith Balderdash et. al. don’t consider that news.

    I’m not really defending anyone here, I’m trying to point out the lack of balance in the media, which is even worse (as impossible as that would seem) in the astro-turf press release issuing organizations like the Fraser Institute and CTF, which Harvey happily copies and pastes. Dead Dog Hank got the point of my original comment, while Harvey still hasn’t managed to get it. When Harvey copies and pastes a press release from the BC Fed of Labor or the NDP come back and talk to me about it.

    Berisoff certainly didn’t push the committee to act, and as I pointed out a Liberal run committee of a Legislature that doesn’t actually you know, meet and or actually debate is a pretty useless forum, especially with a media too busy looking for the next gotcha moment from the nasty socialist hordes. After all, there might be an NDP candidate posting an embarrassing pic on his facebook page.

    Frankly the expense accounts of opposition members are small potatoes indeed compared to those of the Christy party constantly touring the world or going to Edmonton or Prince George to make fools of themselves over the Northern Gateway project review, or the riches squandered as Emperor Gordo and Princess Lara toured the world. How is it that Christy can spend fifteen grand or more to go to Saskatchewan and back when I can go to Hawaii and back for two hundred dollars plus bus fare to Bellingham?

    (Response: Again, your intellectually crippling bias is showing. The press only reports press ops that discredit the NDP? What hogwash! As someone who has been VERY critical of the MSM, I at least try to keep it real: the media have not only reported Clark’s photo ops with cynicism …they haven’t exactly been sympathetic to the Libs/Clark lately on many issues. She deserves it all …but don’t give us the paranoid line that the media only cover the NDP negatively. Sounds like something we used to hear out of Pravda about negative stories about the Communist paradise! h.o)

  31. RS says:

    “Wonder how … or if …. the NDP’s partisans will defend this one!” H.O.

    By posting Kootkoot’s blinkered rants I think you’ve answered your own question Harvey.

    (Response: I find it quite sad …and amusing… when people are so biased they will defend THEIR PARTY no matter what: history has shown what such blind allegiance can lead to … and it’s NEVER good government. h.o)

  32. 13 says:

    Harvey when the msm made Glen Clarks hiring by Jim Pattison a news story was it good or bad news? Was it pro or con NDP? Maybe it was a Liberal story? Was it good or bad?

    There can only be one right answer if your an NDP supporter. Clark is a traitor. No wait if your a Liberal supporter Pattison is a traitor. So many positions so little chance to pigeon hole. Must drive some people nuts.

    (Response: Speaking of Clark, correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s always been my impression Pattison’s companies are no friend of unionization. If that’s true…notice how quiet all those union-supporting NDP supporters are on this one!!! Where are the questions? Where are the denunciations? Or is it just proof hypoccrisy knows no particular political side? h.o)

  33. Mo says:

    Clark was hounded out by a rabid MSM … unfairly.

    He was hired by Pattison. Clark is living comfortably and he got his revenge on the MSM.

    He is a private citizen why should anyone be bashing him now?

    Besides … lets keep focused on throwing out the corrupt entity that is the BCLIBS!

  34. Larry Bennett says:

    Gee, Gumby, thanks for the compliment … I think!

  35. 13 says:

    Harvey, my example of Glen Clark and Jim Pattison was simply to point out the NDP supporters penchant for seeing one side only. I certainly did not want to remove the focus of “throwing out the corrupt entity that is the BCLIBS”Yikes

  36. dan says:

    This whole affair is not a surprise. Nothing, absolutely nothing, will change for politicians until such time as WE THE PEOPLE change the electoral process.

    As long as FPTP never changes we simply cannot expect politicians to change the way their bread is buttered. Sitting in a chair posting multiply opinions online of the same problem year after year is never going to be a solution either.

    I always smile sardonically at the postings which claim once the NDP is in power every single problem we have will disappear. How would this be even entertained as a notion when the NDP work in the same system all other political parties function in?

    Think of politics like a road. We can walk on the left side or the right side; even in the middle, but still the fact remains it is the same system which will yield the identical result using different syntax, promises, and faces.

    Wake me up when people actually desire change…I mean real, meaningful, changes. The party system is over.

    (Response: I disagree with you about the effect of people blogging or writing letters or calling hotline shows etc: the parties and the politiicans DO pay a LOT of attention to what is being said on social media these days. A lot! As for those expecting everything will be better if the NDP takes power, they are no doiubt in for a disappointment … and of course, many will just blame people like me for pointing it out when they do go back on promises or deceive or shovel bucketloads of cash to party and personal friends. But I believe the hope for most is that maybe, just maybe, they would be a bit better than what we’ve seen under Campbell and Clark. h.o)

  37. dan says:

    Under Campbell and Clark the bottom of the barrel was discovered. Nowhere to to go but up.

    Using the same system will yield the same result in the end; voting to rid ourselves of the last guy rather than voting for someone with merit.

  38. Lee says:

    With all due respect Harvey — and you are due quite a bit of respect — I have to disagree that your thesis is important. If they are half as transparent as the Liberals, that would be like fine bohemian crystal.
    More importantly though, the NDP will stop the corporate welfare state that the Liberals have created where we just hand off over our Province and our sovereignty to foreign corporations, especially state controlled ones run by totatalitarian regimes that bring in their own labour.
    As a BC Patriot, I can’t wait to rid us of this Liberal pestilence, along with their brainless leader.

    (Response: You know, I actually hope you are right. There’s an expression I’ve heard: you only have to be a six out of ten to look good, if everyone else is a three or four. BUT that will never..and should never…stop us from pointing out a politician’s or party’s failings, especially when it comes to denying the public the right to see where our money is being spent. h.o0

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