Federal LNG Decision Will Impact BC Election

The federal Liberals officially have no links or relationship with the BC Liberals …. but what an election they gave Premier Christy Clark Tuesday night!

Approval of the $11.4 Billion LNG terminal near Prince Rupert will no doubt have its critics and opponents … but Clark knows those people wouldn’t vote for her and the BC Liberals anyway.

What Clark WILL get out of it … almost LOL as I write this … is ANOTHER election opportunity to tout the promised LNG windfall for BC: thousands of jobs,  huge investment, millions in royalties and taxes … and, of course, promises of more to come.

From the Globe and Mail:

“Constructing Pacific NorthWest LNG would be a massive shot in the arm for the B.C. economy. The consortium estimates the total cost at $36-billion by its completion in 2021, including the construction of the liquefaction terminal and pipelines that would connect with natural gas supplies; Petronas’s $5.2-billion acquisition of Progress Energy Canada in 2012; and $12-billion in drilling and natural gas production in northeastern B.C. needed to feed the plant. The overall price tag also includes TransCanada Corp.’s commitment to build two related pipelines at a cost of $6.7-billion.”

Remember that $36 BILLION figure: you will be hearing it a lot over the next seven months!

And it puts the BC NDP on the spot.

The Opposition has said it is not opposed to LNG exports in principle … but I have no doubt the Liberals are hoping Opposition Leader John Horgan and the NDP will disavow this project.

According to an August article in the Prince Rupert Northern View, the NDP leader “withheld support for the proposed Pacific NorthWest LNG project earlier this year, the LNG export terminal furthest along in its development stages and currently under federal review, but said in the past with certain conditions, the party could reverse its stance.”

Hmm!  No doubt, Clark and the Liberals can hardly wait for the NDP to take a definitive position AGAINST the announced plan.

Because Clark and strategists will gamble that MORE BC voters will SUPPORT the project than OPPOSE it.

Even though the Canadian Environmental Assessment Agency (CEAA) concluded the project would result in increased greenhouse gas emissions.

” Environmentalists, some First Nations and a group of scientists also argue that Pacific NorthWest LNG’s choice to build the export terminal on Lelu Island would threaten juvenile salmon habitat in the Skeena River estuary,” the Globe story noted.

“The regulator, however, said the terminal and related infrastructure such as a suspension bridge would not cause major ecological damage to a sandbar called Flora Bank.”

The battle lines are now drawn.

Environmentalist activists and some First Nations and many NDP supporters will NOT support the federal decision or the project.

But Clark and the Liberals no doubt believe MOST British Columbia voters will.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alert notifications of all new topic postings on this blog by following me @harveyoberfeld on Twitter.  Free service: no spam, no e-mail ads etc.)

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80 Responses to Federal LNG Decision Will Impact BC Election

  1. Gene The Bean says:

    Nail in the coffin for the NDP (and BC).

    I wish that the electorate wasn’t so gullible and that the Liberals would be tossed to the trash heap – where they belong. They are not a true government – they are an organization good at winning elections.

    But when you have ZERO opposition……
    Keeping it real – a flea infested troop of baboons could beat the NDP.

    So sad – for BC.

    I thought Horgan could be the difference. I was wrong. The ‘invisible man’ hindered by a structure so ‘clustered’ that they are running out of thumbs to sit on.

    Anyone with a shred of intelligence knows the LNG boat has already sailed. Russia and Australia have curtailed production and the market is so saturated it will NOT be viable for new growth for at least another 15 years. By then renewables will have dropped significantly in price (nano-technology is going to revolutionize solar – you read it here first!) and LNG will be redundant.


    But it doesn’t matter as the Liberals are now perfectly placed to win the next TWO provincial elections – on the same premise – that they won the last one on.

    The tire fire that is the NDP probably hadn’t even considered this as a possibility…..

    We are so screwed…..

    (Response: My thoughts tend to agree with yours …BUT we never know: the BC NDP could negate the Liberals’ likely job creating political advantage by supporting the project ..gambling that could win them more support from the vast majority in the center than the numbers they’d lose to the Greens. And who knows what Liberal scandals can come out in the next seven months! h.o.)

  2. DBW says:

    No actual surprises here. There are 190 conditions placed on the project – the most important being a 20% reduction in carbon emissions.

    Market conditions are still murky. Petronas has said it will have to do a complete review of the project before it moves forward.

    No doubt it will impact the election although I am not sure how much. If the NDP lost in 2009 when it could have won; and lost in 2013 when it should have won, I wasn’t holding my breath on anything different happening this time around.

    Lots of things can happen not least of which will be Petronas making its final decision to somehow impact the 2021 election.

    (Response: Yes, LOTS of conditions on the project and the location of the plant and the route of the delivery system were changed to accommodate some environmental concerns, …and I think that actually helps the Libs to sell it as a clean, major job creation and revenue generating basis … just in time for the election. h.o)

  3. morry says:

    The ink is not yet dry on this issue.

  4. Howard says:

    Polls show that with the Greens/Conservatives sporting a combined 30% support, the coming election won’t be so much a Liberal/NDP affair.

    How many are recognizing that “jobs” dependent on LNG are of questionable value on a cooked planet and that the last thing the world needs now is more fossil fuel based infrastructure?

    The jury is clearly in on global warming for a lot of people (including myself). It was Ayn Rand who said “you can ignore reality, but you cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring reality.”

    (Incidentally the mercury hit 100 degrees Fahrenheit? in San Francisco this week).

    Besides, the 15% tax hasn’t done virtually anything to address the housing crisis (beyond the price of luxury properties). The issue of housing affordability and access will likely still be front and centre next year for most people.

    (Response: Dream on! How many people in BC can even name the BC Conservative leader??? Let’s keep it real: the Conservatives will NOT be a MAJOR factor in the BC provincial election. The BC Greens could be…but are more likely to take away votes from the NDP …not the Libs …esp if the NDP eventually does give its approval to the LNG plant/pipelines. h.o.)

  5. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Depressed LNG prices and the huge oversupply of LNG worldwide will make this project as likely as a unicorn farm. We shouldn’t get our attention diverted.

    What people need to be engaged in is the actual deceit happening at IPPs (Independent Power Projects) and Site C.

    BC Hydro ratepayers are being saddled with huge debt and contractual obligations by the BC Liberals’ policies on hydro power.

    Much on this from Norm Farrell at https://in-sights.ca/?s=ipps

    (Response: Horgan will lose BIG TIME if, during any election debate, he tries to argue “the actual deceit happening at IPPs (Independent Power Projects) and Site C” while Clark draws pictures (again) of jobs flowing, huge revenues and lower taxes …even dividends for voters. I know it sounds awful…but it has been shown to work. h.o.)

  6. Diverdarren says:

    Harvey, I can’t disagree with much of your post. But…

    Today’s Vancouver Sun (online) has stories about both BC’s major parties. Sure Federal Liberals are giving the BC Libs a 11.4 BILLION dollar feather in the cap for Clark and her upcoming campaign. But the NDP made some news to help their platform.

    Trudeau does’t play favorites. Back in May the Trudeau Libs gave Horgan’s NDP campaign a big thumbs-up to an NDP issue with the adoption of the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples. That’s been something Horgan has been pushing for, ” A B.C. government, led by me, will officially adopt the United Nations declaration on the rights of indigenous peoples.”

    There’s the wedge between BC Lib’s and NDP approach to wining votes.

    Clark fights for voters who care about investment, wealth for the province, and jobs for the working class.

    Horgan fights for voters wanting reconciliation with natives, and other feel-good social policies.

    I think the writing is on the tee-pee wall. BC voters will once again put down their x for economic progress and looking forward to a secure financial future, and reject hand-wringing remorse over the past.

    (Response: The social issues you point to are all important … but BC’s political history shows they will never overcome the dream of thousands of jobs, huge revenues for the province and, of course, lower taxes for all that would result. h.o.)

  7. 13 says:

    I held off commenting because I couldnt add to your post. Reading the comments posted to this point and their anti Liberal slant (more Lib bashing to come no doubt) makes me think that the BCLibs will be able to manipulate this press release in their favour right though the election. Once again the NDP are screwed because of their wanting to appeal to the enviro crowd (eg Howard) while forgetting that they need the support of private sector workers both union and non union. People want jobs . Good paying mega project jobs. Not service sector whale watching and tree hugging jobs.

    (Response: Your comments are always welcome.. especially when they agree with mine! 😉 The NDP may be able to find a compromise with their own supporters by supporting this project, while continuing to oppose the Kinder Morgan project … a decision on which is expected in December. h.o)

  8. Lew says:

    LNG projects are being shelved or completely abandoned all over the globe. Much too risky. But it’s beginning to look as though BC (and maybe federal) taxpayers are going to become partners in just such a project. Here’s Rich Coleman’s take, according to Bob Mackin in a recent BIV article:

    “He said it is ‘quite likely’ that he would meet in October with the president of Petronas in Malaysia and the presidents of the four minority partners to ‘restart our discussions in and around our project development agreement.’

    ‘We really need to figure out the numbers,’ he said. ‘The numbers have really got to be tightened down. Because the price of gas in Asia right now is so cheap, because of the price of oil. Just about nobody is globally competitive on a long-term contract they signed before the market crash.

    I know the number they have to get to in order to make it financially viable, I think they’re about 50 cents to a dollar away from that, but it’s a lot better than it was six months ago’.”


    Coleman can’t control the global market. He can’t control Petronas’ construction costs. But he knows “the number” Petronas needs to make the project financially viable when similar projects globally are being cancelled, and he’s going to Malaysia in October to talk with a state-controlled energy giant about restarting discussions on the existing agreement. He has to control something to get a seat at the table; so what would that be?

    He won’t be going with empty pockets. Because Petronas knows how desperate Christy and the BC Liberal cabal are to get this done, and they’ll be all ears. We’ll soon be partners in some form on this project with one of the most corrupt governments on earth.

    (Response: What you suggest might prove true …but none of that would likely cause voters NOT to choose again to dream, perchance to think of the HUGE money the Liberals will be telling us that will roll in …IF we re-elect them. h.o)

  9. TheOtherWayneinVictoria says:

    We all know the reality is it will never be built. This is a shell game of political currency. The Federal Liberals knew they couldn’t be seen to be anti fossil fuel by declaring an all out no. What they have done is weighed all the facts, added conditions to placate the environmental movement and gambled that it will never come to fruition on their watch and can be neatly filed away without the risk of it coming back to haunt them.

    The Provincial Liberals are counting on the “Rubes” to reelect them, it worked once, so it will work again. You can actually see the Premier look up at the sky at one point while wearing that sickening grin, no doubt thanking god.

    Now, if I was the NDP; I would attach myself to the Federal Liberals, come out and thank them for their careful consideration of the issue, praise their added conditions as proof of the Feds like minded environmental concerns and totally deny the Provincial Liberals a chance to hand the “No Jobs No Development” mantra on the NDP this time.

    This would inoculate the NDP from criticism on the particular issue and help them retain and garner voters as reasonable and middle of the road.

    (Response: I agree. It will require BC NDP, however, to reverse their earlier stated policy opposing the plant in the Prince Rupert area. And it would also require them to oppose the federal NDP position already expressed by Mulcair opposing the project: but judging by where he and the federal NDP’s policies took the federal party in the last election, over-riding his objections should not be a political problem. h.o)

  10. Lulymay says:

    I think you have hit the nail on the head, Harvey, as well as your commenters. If I was a “back room boy” I would advise the NDP leadership to support the LNG plant, but come out very clearly stating that the majority of jobs should be filled by BC residents (or at least Canadian). There will always be some very specialized work we don’t have the expertise to do, but doesn’t Australia? Do we always have to draw from Asia? As well, stay away from whether they must be unionized or not – only that compensation should be equitable and me able to support the folks that live here.

    This is where we might actually achieve the much touted “trickle down effect” on the economy. We want the workers on this very expensive (and will be even more expensive than they current quotes) project to spend their money HERE/ and not in some foreign country.

    This may still not get the NDP elected but it will certainly take away the photo-op queen’s constant blathering about the part of NO.

    (Response: I know several NDP elected members and staff read this blog. They should pay special attention to your comment: approving it on condition that BC and Canadian jobs are SUPREME and that all the 200 environmental conditions are met …would be smart politics …and probably not lose them as many supporters (to the Greens) as they fear. h.o)

  11. Confucious says:

    LNG might be the gift that keeps on giving, as in for 3 straight election cycles before the first plant is even running (if ever based on international prices).
    After 2017, the next election will be 2021 and by then the first LNG plant could be close to running.
    Conceivably the BC Liberals could use the promise of LNG to win the 2013, 2017, and 2021 elections!
    The NDP will rue the day they let the 2013 election slip from their fingers with all the advantages they had heading into that election.
    With that said, if John Horgan offers up an alternate prosperous vision for BC, that includes higher minimum wages, slowing down housing costs, promotion of resource development, increase funding for public schools, etc. he could win over the 20-40 crowd (e.g. the swing vote). There’s more than 1 way to improve the economy, and this election’s #1 issue like almost every election will be about both jobs and the economy!

    (Response: Exactly! The Libs used the jobs galore hype in the last election and won; they will use the same promises of great things to come …backed by actual project approval …in the coming campaign. But that does not make the election a fait accompli: the NDP could attract support from those you mention and even others…but they have to propose a plan that includes major job creation as well as just spend, spend, spend. h.o.)

  12. Art Smith says:

    Not an NDP fan at all but I think Clark and Co. need to go. The biggest problem is there is no viable opposition. Horgan looked good on paper but hasn’t delivered. I am afraid the NDP all seem to be just playing out the string waiting for those juicy retirement packages to kick in. Their tepid approach to holding the gov’t to account is almost cringe worthy, they don’t seem to want to rock the boat. They need someone with some fire in the belly and some leadership qualities to get them riled up.

    (Response: Not sure if you saw my recent blog on the NDP: http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/take-harvs-ndpgoogle-jobs-challenge/. They are very good at proposing and supporting all kinds of programs and services that will make lives better …but I don’t think THAT will ever get them elected by the undecided without a MAJOR JOBS plan that people will buy into to … and compete with Clark and the Liberals. h.o)

  13. Tim says:

    This and other oil and gas projects should have been built years ago. Now we need to try and play catch up with countries like the US and Australia. Who’s to blame for this? Probably all levels of government who pander to single interest groups rather than satisfying the needs of the silent majority.

    (Response: There’s no doubt that building ANYTHING of substance in Canada …from housing to major resource projects … are a developer’s and investors’ nightmare ..with all the red tape, regulations and bureaucracy involved. Unfortunately though, land developers and resource extractors have brought that on themselves: many of them just can’t be trusted to do “the right thing” without all the restrictions and controls. h.o.)

  14. Rajesh says:

    It may be one or two LNG projects eventually are built in BC. But the optimists, proponents and the punditpalooza ignore one of the main challenges BC LNG faces, and that is competition from renewable energy.

    As far as I can tell, the fuel cost alone of a BC LNG powered electrical generating plant is $0.10/kwh (and that’s assuming BC LNG can be delivered in Asia for $10/mmbtu). This $0.10/kwh does not include power plant capital costs or Operations and Maintenance costs. Well, the most recent all-in (capex, O&M) for solar PV and wind projects is about no more than $0.10. (I’m involved in solar PV in India)

    In Abu Dhabi, a solar PV contract was just signed to provide power for $0.0242/kwh.

    Moreover, solar PV costs have decreased 70% in the last 5 years. Wind energy costs have decreased significantly as well.

    Finally, I keep hearing from BC LNG proponents that gas can be fracked for $3-4/mmbtu, then piped, liquified, gasified for another $6/mmb (so $10 total), but industry sources I follow in the US indicate breakeven costs of up to $8/mmbtu to get the gas out of the ground – how could the costs in BC be half this level when in the US the natural gas plays have existing better infrastructure?

    It all seems a pipedream. And we can look forward to Phase II of the LNG fraud upcoming during the next election campaign.

    (Response: Any LNG plant will ONLY be built if the companies involved believe it will make them giant profits….and I have no doubt they are acutely aware of the world market/economic conditions. Maybe it WILL turn out to be another pipedream …. but terrible as it may seem, all that matters from an election point of view is the ability to promise and dream that all those riches from the last election are finally coming closer… if only we vote right. h.o)

  15. marvin says:

    Given that lng prices are in the tank and it makes no sense for Petronas to proceed, I’m wondering what the company will be promised in exchange for giving at least the appearance of a decision to go ahead with the project.
    I have a feeling they’ll be given the car, the keys, the garage, the fuel, car attendants, a chauffeur, free insurance, in effect carte blanche. The 999 year BCR lease deal will pale in comparison.

    (Response: Huge projects like this can be promised, even started, and then cancelled …even after millions are spent. Doesn’t matter one iota for the COMING election …only seven months away: Clark will keep the dream of riches alive … and push the oh so close scenario. h.o.)

  16. Lew says:

    Harvey, in your response at #8, you imply that BC voters wouldn’t care if the BC Liberals provided subsidies to a foreign state-owned corporation. The subsidies would have to be massive, and in support of a very risky undertaking with a very shady government.

    I hope you’re wrong.

    (Response: I do too… but I have found people often vote from a self-interest point of view… and dreams of good-paying jobs and money in THEIR pocket. h.o)

  17. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Regarding your response to my comment at #5:

    If the BC NDP were still in power and churning out three fast ferries per year, the media and even NDP supporters would be all over them to stop the insanity.

    Yet, as Norm Farrell tells us, the BC Liberals wasted $672 million — in 2015 alone — in overpayments to the IPP owners, through contracted fees that are 3 to 4X the market rate.

    That’s more than 3 fast ferries in 2015 dollars… blown in just one year. Norm has pegged the overpayment at about $200 million for the first quarter of 2016.

    This would be partly acceptable if we actually needed the power and Hydro couldn’t deliver it on their own — but Farrell has shown many times that Hydro has the capacity to meet our flat-lined demand, without including Site C.

    You’re saying voters don’t want to hear this kind of criticism?

    It’s a gross mismanagement of dollars that could have been spent elsewhere, such as paying off the Port Mann bridge in 5 years without any tolls being collected.

    (Response: I’m sure many British Columbians absolutely DO want to hear about this topic: but as much as I appreciate Norm’s blog, the criticism has to come LOUD AND CLEAR over and over again from Horgan and the NDP. And also any criticism must be accompanied by something voters can believe in and vote FOR … in terms of not just spending programs for the poor, disadvantaged, seniors, handicapped, kids and First Nations … but LOTS of job creation, LOWER taxes etc. for the working middle class. h.o)

  18. morry says:

    i think this comment will gain threshold in the coming months:

    “”With LNG prices in Asia at low levels, the vast majority of 20 LNG proposals in British Columbia have been rendered uneconomic. ”

    Given the housing debacle Christy Clark is so desperate for something to distract voters that she will likely give them whatever price they ask just so she can say the project is “a go” before next May’s election. Prepare to be sold out by Christy and gang.””


    i still think its all hot air

  19. Vivek Golikeri says:

    A stunningly brilliant political move by Trudeau 2.0.

    With the price of NG being as low as it is he knows this project will never be built on his watch..BUT, by giving it his blessing he will remove the anti-development tag from his name which will give him free reign to quash the KM transmountain expansion project thus saving his support in BC.

    Remember who his father was…this is just the begining of a very well thought out game.

    (Response: Interesting analysis …but I disagree. Regardless of the CURRENT NG price, China will need LOTS of it in the next 20 years …and Canada is a safe, friendly, easy source. So knowing that the planning, design, approval sign offs and construction will take years, if they can come up with a good LONG-TERM price/deal at TODAY’S construction and market prices .. they will sign on the dotted line with Petronas. h.o)

  20. D. M. Johnston says:

    Horgan who?

    No, seriously, Horgan has turned into a wet squibb; the NDP is a yesterday’s party; and there is no change in sight.

    I will vote for the independent, Vickie Huntington, in Delta South, in the next election.

    The NDP have a death wish, no political party could be so incompetent, yet the NDP are setting new standards.

    There is a massive glut of LNG in the world and I doubt the pipeline will be built unless the Liberals pay for it.

    It is so sad in my declining years that the once great province of BC has been raped to death by con artists, sociopaths, and plain crooks, while her Majesty’s Loyal opposition does nothing, except twiddle their collective thumbs.

    It is so sad to see this happen, we no longer live in a democracy, rather a large criminal organization where the peons are regularly shaken down for more money to pay for the ruling elites largess.

  21. morry says:

    Lets get real: “Pacific NorthWest LNG stalled by more than 190 federal conditions”!

    Yes you can go ahead….butt

  22. e.a.f. says:

    Certainly they can go ahead with that, but with 190 conditions. good luck with that. Trudeau accomplished few things with that decision including I am sure, repaying a few political debts. However, Trudeau is aware there will be First Nations court challenges which they would win. Then there are the 190 conditions, which might never be met. In the meantime Christy has her election mantra and all is well in the national Liberal house.

    Last election Christy promised jobs, jobs, jobs and families first and we know how that turned out. If people want to believe her again, then they get what they deserve.

    PETRONAS is a multi national corporation. With the various trade deals in play in the world, which Canada is part of PETRONAS will still be able to bring in foreign workers from where ever they please, including places like Italy and there will be nothing the federal or provincial government can do about it. We don’t hear much about TFWers any more but there are other ways to bring workers in and PETRONAS will. They don’t care about Canada, Canadians, our environment, our laws, its all about them able to make money.

    My opinion, Christy will sign a deal which has B.C. paying PETRONAS to buy the LNG, not out right but with tax rebates, royalty rebates, etc. The B.C. Lieberals are good at taking care of themselves, just remember the IPPs and B.C. Rail. Why would this be any different?

    As with some of these “events” I like to turn off the sound and watch what is really going on. Body Language. there she was all smiles for the camera. Then have a look, while she is speaking, at the 2 federal cabinet ministers, especially LeBlanc. those were not the faces of happy campers or politicians. Nice tan on Christy though.

    (Response: Your remark that last election “Christy promised jobs, jobs, jobs and families first and we know how that turned out.” Maybe you don’t. Christy/Liberal critics, haters and NDP supporters won’t like it, but the last figures, released in August, showed BC now has had the fastest economic growth in Canada, the highest job creation rate and the lowest unemployment rate (5.3%). And that report was on the CBC …not exactly a right wing mouthpiece: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-jobs-plan-success-gives-liberals-bragging-rights-heading-into-election-1.3741688. The Tyee has offered an alternative view: http://thetyee.ca/News/2016/09/26/BC-Strong-Economy-Struggles/. But guess which song the Libs will sing over and over…along with the LNG deal … during the next several months. h.o.)

  23. H Coleman says:

    Im sure it will be built, Christy said yesterday that the royalty/tax agreement for LNG, ” Its is set. It is done and dusted” so in BC Liberals language that means absolutely nothing as shown in the past with “I wont rip up contracts” “I will not sell BC Rail” ” I will Not privatize BC Hydro” “its not on the radar”. When Christy ends up giving Petronas the gas for nothing and having the taxpayers of BC and Canada paying the 38 BILLION construction costs even though most of the work will be done off shore it will be a no brainer for Petronas! NO RISK FOR PETRONAS! Exactly like the BC Hydro private power purchases, no risk for the IPP companies and with ratepayers absorbing all the losses with increased bills! All Christy Clark cares about is getting re elected and if that means putting the taxpayers of BC in hock for GENERATIONS so be it! Where else is she gonna get a job where she can rack up $500,000 a year on a company credit card not including travel?

  24. RS says:

    Here we go again. Same ol’ say anything, do anything to get elected shtick — economics be damned. NW LNG Project is not economically viable at this time nor well into the future, never mind the negative environmental fallout.
    Give this a listen to keep it real:
    Scroll to the 02:31:40 mark

  25. Gordie says:

    The increase in carbon emissions from the LNG plant are going to be offset by an increase in the carbon tax. Sounds like the taxpayers are getting stiffed….again.

  26. Tim says:

    Harv – re your response to my 09/28 comment – “Unfortunately though, land developers and resource extractors have brought that on themselves: many of them just can’t be trusted to do “the right thing” without all the restrictions and controls” – I believe in science based environmental controls. I also believe in government not industry watch dogs to make sure controls are in place and are adhered to. Once this is in place, which in Canada it is for the most part, projects that will benefit the majority of Canadians should be approved as quickly as possible by our elected governments.

    (Response: I have no problem, with that: anyone who reads this blog knows I support development and resource extraction, even pipelines, IF as much as can be reasonably done to preserve and hopefully enhance the environment. And yes, government should regulate but not hinder development if those conditions (and other economic/community interests and requirements) can be met. But my commented reflected the sad truth that too many businesses/developers/resource extractors …some of them measuring profits in the hundreds of millions of dollars … have done terrible damage to our rivers and lands with impunity … and I’d not only make them pay … I’d put the bosses, if they knew what was happening, in prison. h.o,)

  27. Ron says:

    Re: #4 Howard // Sep 28, 2016 at 8:30 am
    (Incidentally the mercury hit 100 degrees Fahrenheit? in San Francisco this week).
    Howard, do you know that San Francisco hits 100 degrees many times in their summer, which starts in September and extends to December. When they get the breeze from the inferno that is the Sacramento Valley (called Diablo winds, in LA it’s called the Santa Ana winds).
    Everyone who is knowledgeable about San Fran knows this.
    I can remember in the mid 1980’s when that temp was hit EVERY year and even in December the thermo was in the 90’s. Look at the weather history in San Fran, it goes to 100 F in October.
    Maurice Strong wanted this tax back in the 1970s, not because of climate, but for a sure way to tax people more.
    Please watch and read:
    You are being fooled or are a gov’t shill.

  28. Ron says:

    Re: #4 Howard // Sep 28, 2016 at 8:30 am
    Here’s some levity from George Carlin on the enviro:

  29. Gene The Bean says:

    Harvey, you say and I believe it, that some NDP brass and MLA’s read this blog….

    Maybe they could respond and provide us with some insight via a comment on your posts and some feedback on some of our comments…

    Betting line is 8-1 against.

    Same odds as the NDP doing anything constructive or interesting enough to garner any support before the election…..


    (Response: Not just NDP …but politicians, officials of many parties follow what we all say here. And yes, they are welcome to respond (if they keep to the topic at hand) , as Andrew Weaver did recently on my blog about the Greens. I’m happy to tell you now the blog is now getting more than 65,000 direct visits some months (not counting readers who read these blog items reprinted with permission elsewhere): clearly what we say IS getting out …and woe be any politicians or party …. like the NDP in the last federal election AND last provincial election …. who ignore Keeping it Real’s blunt analysis of the political realities. h.o)

  30. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey you’re quite correct. Just to clarify, when I write, we know how that turned out regarding jobs, is the jobs can’t be all that great because B.C. still has the highest rate of child poverty in Canada. Now that is because parents are poor, so if there are jobs, they can’t be paying much, if the poverty rate is still where it always was in B.C. If there were jobs, jobs, jobs, then Christy, you would think would be taking in taxes and rolling in the dough, which we heard the province is, yet she is so broke or morally bankrupt she is clawing back the small increase $77 from the disabled by charging them for bus passes. That just doesn’t sound to me like a province which has jobs, jobs, jobs, regardless of what the stats say. There is a difference in jobs, jobs, jobs, and JOBS, JOBS, JOBS. Until the crash in oil prices Alberta had JOBS, B.C. not so much. Real jobs pay real money. The type you can take to the bank, not to the food bank. Real jobs allow people to buy school supplies for their kids instead of going to charities to pick them up.

    Wages have not kept up with the cost of living in B.C. so even if you have jobs, and they’re all low income jobs, then in my opinion those aren’t real jobs.

    Until the child poverty rate is no longer the highest in Canada, in my opinion we don’t have jobs, we have McJobs and they still leave people living below the poverty line even if they work full time at min. wage.

    (Response: Don’t get me wrong: I agree child poverty rates in BC are awful; too many people are working only part-time jobs (so employers can avoid benefits); getting lousy pay for hard work; facing unfair taxation like MSP. etc. etc. … BUT I try to Keep it Real …and mark my words, you will be haring a LOT in the next several months about those stats that came out about how “well” BC is doing compar4ed to other provinces or five years ago. That’s why I keep saying the NDP needs to start offering HUGE JOB HOPES AND STRATEGIES … not just promises to spend, spend, spend more taxpayers’ dollarson those who need it. h.o)

  31. Jay Jones says:

    Mass immigration will make things better!


    Expo will make things better!


    The Olympics will make things better!


    Tolls will make things better!


    IPP’s will make things better!


    Pricing people out of their communities in favour of wealthy foreigners will make things better!


    Yawn @ LNG will make things better.

  32. Lew says:

    Harvey, your response to e.a.f. at #22 is interesting. It assumes that anyone who supports the NDP or is a critic of Christy and the BC Liberals doesn’t like the relatively good economic numbers BC is enjoying, and implies that the good economic numbers are the result of Christy’s efforts.

    Her last election platform promised many, many jobs; mainly from the resource sector, and specifically natural gas and mining. As e.a.f. says, we know how that turned out. The platform also promised to put families, and specifically the disabled, first. Those who haven’t been hiding under a rock also know how that turned out.

    One statement Christy made in her 2013 election platform was almost accurate however:

    “What does Asia have to do with B.C.’s economic future? Everything.”

    But here’s the issue. The gold-paved streets she promised did not materialize, and what did arrive did not come from the sources she envisioned. In fact the sources she cited were a miniscule contributor, and evidence exists they may have even been a net drain. The major contributor to BC’s economy was the massive influx of foreign (mainly Asian) investment in real estate; something Ms. Clark and the BC Liberals vehemently denied as existing as recently as several months ago. The other factor was the low Canadian dollar, which assisted tourism, manufacturing, and the film industry.

    Since Christy doesn’t control the value of the Canadian dollar, and denied having anything to do with the foreign investment in real estate, it’s fair to say it happened in spite of, not because of her efforts. I’d call it the accidental economy.

    But there’s one thing that’s not accidental, and that’s the massive and unprecedented increase in BC’s public debt and financial commitments. For that Christy can accept full credit. And there’s much more to come if she’s handed the keys again.

    The BC Liberals like to call the NDP the tax and spend party. I call the BC Liberals the spend, hide and defer the tax party. Christy has our credit card tucked into the liner of that phony hard hat she wears at every opportunity. She should be forced to display it glued to the outside front.

    (Response: Not true. I did not vote Liberal last election …but I am always happy with any economic/job numbers that are good, because in the end we’re talking jobs and money for people to take care of themselves or the families. And I assume most people feel that way: but let’s keep it real: MANY partisan supporters of an opposition party (in the case of BC …the NDP right now) view bad economic/job figures as “good” news for their side as an election approaches … something to be exploited, just as governments exploit good news. h.o.).

  33. G. Barry Stewart says:

    “Real jobs pay real money. The type you can take to the bank, not to the food bank.”

    E.A.F., if that is straight from your lips: congratulations. It should be on a meme.

  34. Confucious says:

    D. M. Johnston: I wouldn’t write-off Horgan yet. Horgan has probably noticed that Christy and her team are good at taking NDP policies and adapting them just enough to take credit for them when necessary (for example, the 15% foreigner tax, which only a year earlier Christy and her housing minister publicly disproved the data and closed the door to intervention in the market only to find public opinion moving with the NDP idea and then Christy adopts this token solution as her own and is taking credit with both BC Liberal ads, free media air time and those taxpayer funded BC Government ads that laughingly claim they are making housing affordable!)

    We saw with the last Federal Election that it’s impossible for even a wealthy party (Conservatives) to buy an election, and we saw with the Federal NDP what happens when another party (Liberals) adopt some of your positions at outflank you on the left.

    No if John Horgan is smart, he would keep his big policy announcements until the last month of the campaign so by then it will be too late for Christy to try to rebrand herself and steal some of his key policies in order to guarantee another renewed mandate for her and her party.

    The playing field isn’t level between the BC NDP and BC Liberals, so Horgan’s team needs to be smarter than Christy’s team since she’s the economy on paper is doing better than 2013 (try telling that to people under 40 years old fyi, their collective economic outlook gets bleaker every year under the BC Liberals).

  35. 13 says:

    Perhaps when the NDP lose next May and Eby replaces Horgan as party leader the NDP will have a shot in the next election.
    Eby seems to be the only NDPer that I ever hear or read about. Maybe they are taking Confusious advice and staying undercover till the last minute.

    As for Vancouver housing affordability being an election issue. When was a house in Vancouver affordable? How many Liberal MLAs are in the Vancouver area? Why has the CRA been given a complete pass on not investigating students and homemakers buying millions of dollars worth of Vancouver real estate? They didnt want to be seen as RACIST????? Why are Canadas immigration laws not protecting us from criminal enterprises?
    I dont think Christy will have to much trouble deflecting criticism on housing affordability .

    (Response: I too have been impressed by Eby and think he is one of the brightest lights in the BC NDP. He’d probably especially do quite well with generating political interest in millennials …but in the end what the NDP really needs is a way to capture more support undecided middle class and young family voters. h.o.)

  36. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Globe and Mail article on Petronas considering selling off their interests in this project.

    Cue the sound of a deflating balloon…


  37. BMCQ says:

    Honestly I find it Very Sad that most in fact almost ALL that Post here go to bed each and every evening hoping that The Economy in B.C. Fails so the pathetically inept, ill informed and unprepared NDP have a chance of winning the next election!!

    Imagine putting your hopes on that? Ask yourself.

    Just think about what you are wishing for.

    Surely you must have friends and family that earn their income in what is now the ONLY “Have Province” in ALL of Canada!!

    Do you not?

    So you then/now want the Economy of the Province of B.C. to fail?

    Really pathetic and sad!

    Would you rather have your Economy here in B.C. to be more like the Province of Ontario?


    Ontario Total Debt is NOW the Largest Non Sovereign Debtor World Wide!! Think of that!

    Yes we have long term debt in B.C. but consider the actual Debt of Expansion and Infrastructure Improvements here in B.C. as opposed to Ontario.

    Look, Christy Clark may not be perfect but when I vote I consider the alternative and I must vote B.C. Liberal

    The NDP is a Split Schizophrenic Party going nowhere. They do not know if they are Punched or Bored!

    There is the Horgan Group who would like to be more supportive of Major Infrastructure Projects that create jobs and provide good Incomes and a good standard of living for ALL Citizens of B.C., Union and Non.

    Then there is the NDP of Eby, Chandra, Corrigan, Hayman, Farnworth, and over zealous Enviro Types that believe in The Welfare State, Big Bloated Over Regulated Government where there is no control over Spending ending in Huge Deficits and Debt with nothing to show for it except Larger Wage, Benefit, and Pension packets for those Public Sector Workers in the know.where no one gets ahead. Under Funded Pensions and a Cesspool of Bureaucracy!

    Again, look at Ontario.


    If John Horgan was Premier I would be supporting and wishing him success in his effort to acquire LNG Partners or other Job Creating opportunities.

    In fact I support the Glen Clark Government when they attempted to re-launch the Ship Building industry of B.C. Unfortunately he listened to poor advice and when with the Aluminum Hull Craft.

    I would not care about Horgan’s Party at all, I want the best for the People of B.C.

    If B.C. performs well so does my Business and so does the Economy in General.

    On a personal note.

    My Company Consumes about $ 11,000.00 each Month in Natural Gas.

    Last year I Booked Forward and locked in Natural Gas for 5 Years assuring that we are protected in the chance the price of NG increases going forward. This will pay great dividends for the company and ALL Employees and may be important in actually saving a job or two long term.

    The reason I did that is because I am investing in the future and I believe the price of NG will increase over that time.

    Large Firms like PETRONAS and others invest in The Future, NOT Today!! Any of you that believe Investors in large Energy Infrastructure or looking short term is dreaming.

    By the way, ALL of Your Pensions are invested in Projects like LNG and other similar ventures.

    See Ontario Teachers Pension for a a view on this. Ontario Teachers Pension is well known for their Investment acumen.

    Impressed by Eby are you?

    Eby is nothing but a Political Opportunist , a Hypocrite, and a Liar positioning himself for Horgan’s job after the failure of The NDP in the next Provincial Election.

    Oh yes he is something else, “An Anarchist”!!


    Impressed by Eby are we?

    Confused – 34

    The only reason Justin Trudeau was elected PM is because of the movement of “Social Media” which galvanized a large group of “Low Information” Voters and a Leftist Liberal biased media to Promote and actually visit the Polling Booths on Election Day and cast a Ballot in his support.

    Canadians must now live with that soon to be Catastrophic result for the next several years!

    PM JT has been told by his Handlers that with the many years of large Deficits and growing Debt looking Canadians in the eye it is imperative that he create opportunities for Canada to get it’s natural Resources to market.

    If Donald Trump actually manages to take the White house I would bet that PM JT will promote XL to Trump before the Oval Office has a new occupant.

    Bean –

    An Opposite Twin you say!!

  38. Lew says:

    Harvey, I agree with everything you say in your response to me at #32. Except for the first sentence, which I will address when you provide some specificity. I’d appreciate learning what you specifically deem “not true” about my comment.

    (Response: I was referring to your statement that I seem to “assumes that anyone who supports the NDP or is a critic of Christy and the BC Liberals doesn’t like the relatively good economic numbers BC is enjoying.” Not true…as the rest of my response explained. h.o)

  39. Jesse G says:

    If you leave the gate open and a dog comes into your yard and stomps your garden while chasing a butterfly you have the legal right to shoot it for self-defense. It has nothing to do with the dog’s instincts, it has to do with whose property he is on.

  40. 13 says:

    First off ,welcome back BMCQ.
    Secondly I realize that I dont always understand abstract thinking but Harv please help me with Jesse G at #39.

    (Response: I didn’t get it either. h.o)

  41. Lew says:

    Thanks Harvey. I specifically omitted your term “haters”, and phrased my comment to say your statement was interesting because it assumes everyone who supports the NDP or is a critic of Christy and the BC Liberals doesn’t like the relatively good economic numbers BC is enjoying. Your clarification now indicates you should have initially said “MANY”, to avoid unfairly tarring everyone with the same brush.

    A strong economy is good for everyone. Lying about why it’s strong or who is responsible is not.

    You say, “What Clark WILL get out of it … almost LOL as I write this … is ANOTHER election opportunity to tout the promised LNG windfall for BC: thousands of jobs, huge investment, millions in royalties and taxes … and, of course, promises of more to come.”

    Some might think a repeat of the 2013 election platform empty promises the BC Liberals foisted on the public is amusing. I’m not among them.

    I’m also very wary about what a desperate BC Liberal government will give away in an attempt to keep Christy’s rehashed promise of a dream of a promise alive until next May.

  42. morry says:

    “The ink is not yet dry on this issue.”

    Lots of cold water being pored on the project in todays news. more bad press to come….

  43. morry says:

    as i intimated in my first post- i smelled bull droppings….
    “Petronas weighs sale to exit Christy Clark’s ridiculous $27-billion B.C. LNG project”

  44. morry says:

    PS Denials by Petronas is a chess game. The BC liberals will be left shirtless if they try to “hang on” to the illusion. The BC Liberals are such amateurs it’s unbelievable.

  45. Confucious says:

    BMCQ / Bean:

    What we need in our democracy (and American democracy for that matter) is less partisanship or more people that weight out all the issues when choosing a party to vote for in the election.
    If you 40 years old or older and have never voted for more than 1 political party (let alone all 4 as I have at one time or another) then perhaps you should learn to consider the opinions of people other than yourselves.

    That’s why I love blogs like Harvey’s which provides alternative (but informed – a key distinction here) opinions.
    As well reading people’s comments and the debate back and forth can be a healthy thing that leads one to form a better opinion.

  46. Confucious says:

    Fyi when I say Harvey’s blogs provides “alternative” opinion, what I mean is that it can often run contrary or expand greatly one what we find in our mainstream media (e.g. Post Media), his opinions are generally by no means “out there”.

    Bloggers like Harvey, Rafe Mair, etc. are all credible journalists who add (and don’t subtract) from the political debate. I would argue that most times, these guys do it better then most of the PostMedia journalists, but then again they don’t have to worry about their job security 😉

  47. dani says:

    Thanks for all the time and trouble you spend on this blog.
    Lots of very interesting and astute comments.
    Petronas is in this business for the long haul. It doesn’t sound like the price of LNG will recover anytime soon, so their necessity to get this project off the ground is not immediate. In contrast Christy Clark’s window of opportunity is May, 2017.
    She has spent years telling us about the windfall this deal would be for BC: jobs, royalties, taxes, etc. and she certainly hopes this will once again help her in her reelection.
    Guess who now holds all the bargaining chips for renegotiation of this deal? I wonder if she has ever played poker. I’m sure this is not Petronas’ first time to the dance.
    This could get very interesting. It almost reminds me of the purchase of the Expo lands by Li Ka Shing in 1988. If memory serves the province spent millions on remediation of the land as part of the deal which cut the actual cost of the property by almost half.
    I’m sensing a pattern over the years by our governments. I guess we will soon find out.
    Post #39. Huh?

    (Response: Thanks. THE LNG promises of riches remind me of how many times politicians propose, announce, approve, photo-op, re-announce, hold another photo-op for all kinds of major projects, bridges, highways, transit lines, schools, hospitals etc. before we EVER see anything actually happen. Why? Because it works with many voters! h.o)

  48. e.a.f. says:

    went and read the G & M article about Petronas and possibly selling their end of the B.C. deal. Perhaps, perhaps not. In my opinion this may simply be a negotiating ploy. they know the b.c. lieberals need this deal now more than they do. they have time, so if they can get Christy to pay for everything and then pay them to buy the LNG they will be well ahead of the game.

    They may also have had interest from communist china to buy, they do have that 31 yr trade deal which will make it easier for them to do this deal than Petronas. Only time will tell.’

    Oh and welcome back BMCQ. thought you’d left us for other things. it was getting boring with out you.

  49. morry says:

    Do you think it will work again when it is a ll smoke and mirrors? Or wil lpeople tune her out and face reality. Photo-op is nothing but hot air.

    “I think because Petronas was about to say, ‘we’re thinking of selling.’ They wanted to milk one last good news story out of it before reality hit and people realized Christy Clark’s [LNG] fantasy was nothing more than an attempt to get reelected.”

    i am surprised you took the bit so easily.

  50. Gene The Bean says:

    Comment #45 – couldn’t agree more!

  51. BMCQ says:

    13 – 40


    Did not get the Abstract thinking either. But then again I have been away a bit.


    Con – 45

    In a general way I can agree with much of what you have stated there.

    Most of the content of the rest of your earlier posts? Not so much.

    e.a.f. -48

    Thank you for the interest.

    I must say e.a.f. I do not think I would be very welcome at most/all of the other Blogs around here, I read them a bit but do not participate as I would be treated about as well as Donald Trump would be treated at Bernie Sanders House.

    I have been away some and fortunately busy at work although I read the Harvey Blog a time or three a day just to keep up.

    I suppose I am now off top but I must say since I started here in July 2014 I have learned a lot from Posters like you and others. I have even evolved on many issues and completely changed my mind on a few topics thanks to e.a.f., Lew, Harvey, and a few others that Post and that is a good thing.

    “Keeping it Real” provides a very important Public Service and we can almost all learn something from the argument, discussion, and debate.

    As long as we are not bound by a Straight Jacket of Ideology!!

    John Horgan is “Between a Rock and a Hard Place”!

    As I have have mentioned several times over the past two years, Horgan must continually “Tap Dance” back and forth between the so-called “Green” and the Public Sector Union side of the NDP and the Construction Builder Blue Collar Union and Non of the Party.

    He is in a very difficult position and there is no winning path for him.

    People here that show him a lot of hate should place themselves in his spot before they judge too harshly.

    No different than Carol James Horgan is a good soldier and doing a much better job than Dix, Eby, or any of most of the others like Simpson, Farnworth could manage.

    The Man deserves respect!

    (Response: Glad to see this exchange. That’s what this blog is really all about: a chance for me to rant on issues that interest me …and hopefully change some minds or at least keep it real; AND, a chance for others …even those who disagree … to also rant on issues that interest them …and hopefully change some minds too or at least keep it real. h.o.)


    What is it about industrial development in BC that it attracts so much opposition?

    I can remember all the way back to the mid 1950s when WACCY Bennett and Co. were building BC through massive highway and other infrastructure programs, that also included schools, hospitals, and mining incentives.

    The CCF of the day sometimes saw some scandal, real or imagined, and harped on it especially at election time. There was only one problem: the voters didn’t believe the party or could give a sweet damn. WAC was re-elected time after time (7 times I believe through 1969) by a grateful electorate who knew which side of their bread the butter was smeared.

    Alas, and thanks to the advent of the Boomers, the Socreds were defeated in 1972, whereupon a dazzling spending binge by the NDP saw that party trashed three short years later with a triumphant return of the Socreds and more scandals: Gracie’s Finger, Northeast Coal, Kerkove Construction, various government cutbacks, and so on.

    It was fuel for the NDP opposition. but Bennett the Younger was re-elected twice more and then the Socred roof fell in under Vander Zalm (and yet more scandals).

    Now, as Christy Clark kicks her re-election campaign into a much higher gear, here it comes, some more scandals galore which should put ’em all in the slammer, right?


    The LNG proposal will go through as far as I’m concerned. I’m not at all concerned about the resource price which will have to fluctuate because that is usually the way such deals are written.

    What is REALLY THE ISSUE IS SECURITY OF SUPPLY. That security has to be established starting in BC. The governments have to overcome (overwhelm?) opposition to groups which don’t care about larger national and provincial interests.

    This project is needed because BC, as part of Canada, needs to maintain its credibility as a world-class trading jurisdiction.

    So, Petronas will probably say “yes” once those 190 conditions hahve been met and work starts.

    Until then, likely not.

    British Columbians have to make up their minds about what they wish their economic future will look like: either some kind of Potemkin Village of lattee- sucking welfare recipients, or people who happily go for large-scale developments involving everyone. Environmental concerns can be managed I’m sure.

    Problem from the environmentalists is that we can never be “good enough or clean enough”. BS

    More maturity is needed in this unending debate.

    Keeping our resources “safely in the ground” will kill us in the long run and leave us open to foreign intervention from primarily the Americans who’ll grab our stuff for pennies on the dollar if they can get away with it.

    (Response: I agree with much of what you say. But there are many people who consider themselves environmentalists who also understand Canada has a very large resource-based economy, so they support extraction and delivery … as long as there is no wanton destruction of the lands and waters and animal life …as used to unfortunately happen quite often. The challenge for governments these days is to allow, even encourage economic development while also protecting the environment. h.o)


    Poor John Horgan. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t.

    This party rests its entire raison d’etre on a failed and useless Marxist/Leninist-based “philosophy,” where trouble always brews in the party’s inner circle.

    The inevitable schism then consumes its leader as panic follows amongst the rank and file, especially toward election time. Some of us remember Dave Barrett’s Autumn of Defeat in 1975 when unions rebelled against him.

    That was followed by his sound defeat to Bill Bennett on December 11.

    Such has happened before and will happen again at some point for the party.

    I’m sure Mr. Horgan realizes the tightrope he struggles along.

    But when a party fails to offer its leader full ideological support, as other mainstream political parties in Canada generally do, then what is Mr. Horgan to do?

    He can’t please the fat and sassy unchangeable green/public sector members (especially the legions of retireds who bitch about lack of “adequate health care”), AND the insecure private sector unionized workers who genuinely toil for crappy pay and few benefits, and wonder where the rest of their “brothers and sisters are.”

    I’ll tell you where they are: in the tropics in winter and out of town during the summer.

    It’s all good for these public sector one-percenters except for the medical care kvetch, which will never resolve for them, because they’d have nothing more to complain about!

    I’m no NDPer, thank goodness.

    So this carnival of political mediocrity will continue and BC’s much better functioning “right wing” will motor on until it utterly screws up.

    And that happens too.

  54. Gene The Bean says:

    Comment 52 included this beauty “British Columbians have to make up their minds about what they wish their economic future will look like: either some kind of Potemkin Village of lattee- sucking welfare recipients, or people who happily go for large-scale developments involving everyone. Environmental concerns can be managed I’m sure.”
    1) please name anything the LIEberals have ever done that benefited the majority of BCers.
    2) That last sentence is Mt Polly-esque in its absurdity.

  55. #54 To Gene the Bean. Get a life.

    Answer to the first question:

    1) Not being the NDP,

    2) Mount Polley was a complex disaster where the fault lay amongst the private sector and governments. Isn’t it being cleaned up?

    The issue here is that BC has become what it is, for right or wrong but I say mainly right, by mega developments, a lot of free enterprising and a fair amount of government(s) acquiescence by business along the way.

    Tell me please where in this world does business manipulation of government NOT exist where huge projects are concerned?

    It is the way the game is played. And today it is being played to the hilt in a lot of places including China, Russia, Iran, the Middle East in general. Those countries are energy competitors to Canada. No environmental woosies there. Ever see David Suzuki going to Iran to lecture the Ayatollah about environmental whatever? Nope. He’d be nuts to. but he rags on us. Andi don’t like it.

    So, in many Western industrial countries the environmental movement has ALSO been taking its turn at the manipulation racket.

    It has had way too much influence, as far as I’m concerned, in trying to dictate public policy. Who says “they’re always right?” They do.

    But what if they’re wrong and government acquiescence causes economic disaster? What then? Ever thought of that? Not likely by you.

    The people in general have a group intelligence that the tiresome elites never choose to delve into.

    This issue visited the US presidential campaign last month when Hillary cast aspersions on about half the American people calling them “deplorables” because so many support Mr. Trump.

    I’m joining that deplorable club anytime.

    Joining the all-seeing all-knowing elites is a really dumb idea. They don’t know what the hell they’re talking about.

  56. RIsaak says:

    Just curious as to when selling commodities at historical low valuation points became good business?
    For a party that aligns itself as a business party, how can such a ridiculous tact be classified as any form of best practice?
    Many attempt to justify the entire sell for nothing mantra being trotted out by Rich & Christy, not a business school with any credibility would attempt to sell such malarkey.
    I can’t help but wonder what Rich is giving up to Petronas to attempt to start the LNG process?
    If all the future financial obligations the BC Liberals have committed us to were accurately accounted for in budget forecasts, the surplus would become a massive debt, as it should really be. Sea to sky shadow tolls, GE & Port Mann, SFPR, Site C and the always stellar IPP’s, all should be listed as liabilities, as we are who is responsible for these projects should any unforeseen hiccups arise.

  57. Gene The Bean says:

    So….the drum beater for the BC Liberals cannot provide one thing, just one, that the LIEberals have done that benefits the majority of BCers – somewhat telling.
    For your taste bud’s sake I hope Kool-Aid is coming out with some new flavours ……

  58. #56

    A couple of things. The price a commodity sells for always changes. I would be muchly surprised if the BC Libs sold our Natty gas for $2.00 MCF US for an eternity. How dumb would that be?

    Very, as you say.

    But the main issue here is the purchaser’s “security of supply.”

    Canada must be able to persuade that once it contracts to sell it will continue to sell that commodity to that customer come hell or high water. CAnda is also cviewed as a stable supplier of non-renewables by all of our trading partners. Without international trade we would be a sorry economic sight indeed.

    On the provincial debt. I find that very bothersome because of the tens of billions that have been wracked up. But that occurred due mainly to public demands for more infrastructure services and aligning BC to current and future international trade.

    #57 I beat no drum for anyone. As a former NDP supporter I plunk for the BC Libs because of low income taxation, some business taxes and the like. I realize that we are also loaded down with a bunch of consumption taxes such as ICBC, BC Hydro and the like.

    But what would an NDP government do? Cancel them?

    Like hell.

  59. Jay Jones says:

    Don’t vote NDP! During the NDP dominated 80’s/90’s, Vancouver and BC reached world-class standing! They’re a bunch of losers I tell you! A bunch of losers!

    Hilarious stuff!

  60. Lew says:

    BMCQ, you provide much food for thought as usual, and as usual thinking about things raises questions. There are a few I’d appreciate your help with. Not among them is whether you are ever going to change your mind about David Eby, but just in case his nomination meeting is tonight at 6:30 in the Kitsilano Neighborhood House Main Hall. You may still have time to make it.

    I’m wondering, if as you correctly state, large firms like Petronas invest in the future and not today, why so many are bailing on LNG projects today? Prices are low now, but if it’s the future they look at, why would Petronas be rethinking a 25-year agreement with the provincial government signed less than 2 years ago? What does Petronas and other major players across the globe see for LNG in the future that has them shelving or killing planned projects?

    You’ve apparently located a supplier willing to enter into a contract that protects you against natural gas price increases for five years. You believe natural gas will increase over that time and “great dividends” (which obviously have to come from your supplier) will be realized by your company. I’m wondering what you know that Petronas and your natural gas supplier don’t know, and whether you can share the name of your supplier that’s willing to sell you natural gas at a loss? You might be able to save us all some dough.

    As for Justin Trudeau, he’s proving to be just another lying politician. Do I regret voting for him? No, because it was necessary in order to deliver Harper the game misconduct he deserved. But I’m wondering about your statement that the only reason he was elected was because a large group of “Low Information” voters accessed social media and the “Leftist Liberal biased media”. Can you share the information sources you and the other smart and informed voters accessed instead?

  61. Splasdancer says:

    Everyone has gas, tons of nat gas, including Alaska.


    A begging Govner Walker goes.

    And in case you didn’t hear, Exxon, Chevron and others walked away from the Alaska p0roposal, Guvner Walker is going it alone, the State is taking over the project, feverishly searching for buyers..none found as of yet.

    “According to Platts, BP regional manager Dave van Tuyl told the Alaska legislature that although the companies have made “a lot of progress in driving down costs…it isn’t enough the make the project economic.”


    Westcoast projects are dead

  62. Gene The Bean says:

    Still waiting for something that the BC LIEberals have done that benefits the majority of BCers…..

  63. BMCQ says:

    Lookout – 58

    You are not what I would call Prolific Poster but when you do you make some very good points.

    Be careful, it will not belong before some of those on the Left demand that Harvey Ban you from Posting here!!

    You see that is always the way of those that call for “Freedom of Speech”.

    “Freedom of Speech” until they disagree with you that is!

    You make some very valid points but none more important than your question:

    “But what would an NDP Government do? Cancel them”?

    I like you await the answer from someone, anyone!

    Lew – 60

    Some thought provoking questions.

    Now the real question is this, will I be off topic if I answer? I will do my best.


    I can forgive a lot and have but I do not see Eby as anything less than a dishonest Hypocritical Political Opportunist, Very Dishonest, Anti-Police, Law and Order, an Anarchist and a Media Whore.

    I cannot help it if people are able to over look some well documented facts about Eby and chose to believe he is the future of The Provincial NDP, all I can do is state my opinion openly and freely on a Blog like this and on Talk Shows which I did.

    As a matter of fact I spoke to Eby twice on NW, managed to get him to apologize once but he did not go quite far enough.

    Last year I called in again when he was in studio on the very biased pro NDP NW Radio Show hosted by Simi Sara, after asking my question I was cut off and she went to break. When she returned to air, from break it was a totally new topic and Eby had left the Studio. He did not even take one call.

    Large Companies do everything to hang onto Market Share, it is their Life Blood. If a Company loses market share in a contracting market it can be very difficult to re-gain.

    Saudi Arabia and others are now doing their best to displace and force Fracturing Corps and countries out of the Oil and Gas market. Who can outlast the other is the question.

    Each makes their guess and in some cases they are simply guessing to a degree.

    I have just arrived back in YVR so I cannot provide the name of the Broker that my Company “Booked” NG with but I will provide for you tomorrow. I also believe that there are Brokers that provide that service for residential users, you may wish to explore.

    A good example of that is the fact that Iran now that they are able continue to flood the market with oil so they can re-gain their share of the market share.

    Many of the Fracturing Players attempt to do the same with Oil and Gas but they cannot survive if they cannot hold out the lower priced market for a period of time.

    Because markets can be manipulated and some are more cautious some players choose to re evaluate strategies. Sometimes they sometimes they are wrong.

    My Company consumes several million pounds of Non-ferrous Metals each year. I have “Bought forward” over 1 Million lbs. of Zn because in my opinion Zn was at a low and as things begin to slowly and gradually improve markets will improve somewhat.

    If The EU continues to collapse and disintegrate before our very eyes China could suffer as The EU is China’s biggest customer. If China’s Markets contract all bets are off. That by the way is one of the many reasons Mainland Chinese with Money are investing in places like YVR, JFK, SFO, SEA, LHR, and other Western locations that are “Free Market”, Safe, and Stable.

    For several reasons I was of the opinion it was wise to purchase Zn forward march 2016.at this time.


    You might enjoy searching the Charts and thenn Historical Charts on Kitcometals Pricing. Frankly in many ways I consider it my “Bible”!!

    Make sure you click on the Charts on the left side of the page, then click on Historical, you will see that Cu was about $ 5.00 U.S. only a few years ago and it has recently been as low as just under $ 1.00 U.S. View Five Years.


    Justin Trudeau

    I do not see myself EVER Voting for a Justin Trudeau led Liberal Party! Paul Martin a different story.

    I voted Conservative in Vancouver Quadra. At this time I could not see myself supporting JT who I feel is in way over his head and navigating his way through life with “Room Temperature IQ”!

    Then he tops it off with Ministers like Stephane Dione and McCallum!! Yikes! WTF!!!

    If I said “The only Reason” it was a mistake which I will now correct.

    I call PM Justin Trudeau your new “Facebook/Twitter King” for good reason.

    PM JT was elected with the great assistance of the Fawning Liberal MSM Media, Social Media, Primary School Teachers, Middle, High, and University Teachers, and various other “Special interest” Groups.

    Of course along with mistakes and mis-deeds by the Harper Conservatives. For some good reasons a certain percentage of the traditional Conservatives stayed home on Election day.



    Right now HRC and The Democratic Party in the U.S. are getting great assistance from Zuckerberg’s Facebook, Twitter and other Social Media.

    PETRONAS and others make their decisions based on what is best for their shareholders. Sometimes they are correct sometimes they are not.

    Natural Gas is a clean Burning Fossil and we should do everything we can do get it to market.

    In the meantime it is the duty and responsibility of Elected Provincial and Federal Governments to partner with other groups and seek out VIABLE alternate Fuels.

    In closing I should state that I feel World Wide we should first concentrate on providing “Clean Safe Drinking Water’ for Cities and Reserves in Canada, the U.S. and Third World Nations before we tackle so-called Climate Change. CC can wait!

    We must market, provide, export and use Clean Burning Natural Gas to fuel the demand from nations like our own, China, India, and other Manufacturing Nations.

    With profits from that we can also address Social Needs in our own nation.

    Time for ALL Canadians to get on board the LNG Train, let’s help and assist everyone we can World Wide and our own Country!

    Preening, Prancing, Politcians Hypocritical like PM JT and Barak Obama should hear from the People on this!!

    While you are at it let’s give a big “Screw You” to Leonardo Di Caprio, George Clooney, and that other “Enviro” Hypocrite Prince Charles!!

    Did I run on here?

  64. 13 says:

    What have the BC Libs done for you lately?

    The answer would definitely depend on your political affiliation and whether your a right wing or left wing type of personality.

    Scraped air care
    Kept us in the carbon based economy
    Created jobs in the face of much resistance
    Kept a lid on public sector wages and benefits including education. ( I think they have been to easy on most public sector unions)
    The single biggest thing that they continue to do is keep the entire province from becoming a social engineering experiment aka Vancouver under the leadership (any other term and ho would edit) of G Robertson. Possibly a better choice to lead the NDP than even Eby. BTW when I pick new names to lead the NDP it is with an eye to guaranteed failure

  65. Crankypants says:

    If the post-announcement interviews Catherine McKenna held with The National and Simi Sara are factual, the impact on next year’s provincial election may not be as rewarding as the current regime would want it to be.

    The federal minister alluded to the fact that part of the reason the feds approved the project is that BC has agreed to an increase in the carbon tax.

    Considering this project will directly affect only a small percentage of BC residents while an increase in the carbon tax will affect pretty much everyone, it may not be the game-changer many think it will.

    I still believe that most people vote based on which candidate/party will be best for their financial situation and any mention of a tax increase isn’t often a path to victory.

    (Response: I can’t think of ANY major projects in BC’s past that have specifically affected huge numbers of the population, but I suspect the Libs will portray it as representing thousands of jobs, with royalties and tax revenues that will enrich as all. It’s called political campaigning … and history has shown reality is not a requirement. h.o.)

  66. Harry lawsom says:

    Harvey, another astute post.

    Many interesting responses.

    We are about 9 months away from the election and so much can change. We may have the liberals out manouvering the ndp on the economy . Yet the liberals are seen as mean spirited towards the disabled, arrogant , people are frustrated with the tolls and user fees.

    Both mr Horgan and ms Clark could possibly find themselfs dumped before the next election .

    (Response: Wouldn’t that be a hoot if BOTH leaders were defeated! But I don’t think that will happen: most people will vote out of economic self-interest, ie. major promises that will benefit them … even if deep down they know they won’t likely benefit much in the end. h.o.)

  67. 13 says:

    The opportunity to lock in residential gas prices has come to my previous door in Coquitlam many times. Mind you they came a calling 10 or more years ago. I never availed myself of their service. My next door neighbor did sign an agreement and for the term of the agreement he watched the price of NG drop like a rock
    With NG at record lows the time to sign would be now but alas the doorbell is silent.

  68. Hugh says:

    How can a project which is uneconomic provide significant benefits?

  69. BMCQ says:

    Lew – 60

    Please keep in mind that all LME pricing is listed in U.S. Dollars.

    Also keep in mind that $ 1.05 LME Zn after Dollar Conversion and various Premiums added by a supplier like Canada’s HudBay actually turns out to be about $ 1.50 or so CAD to a Manufacturing Company. A significant extra cost.

    Fortis Natural Gas. Please see that there is an oversee by the Utilities Commission.

    Everyone should look at this. Decision should be based upon when one believes the price of Natural Gas could begin to climb.

    I made the decision some months ago and yes could have pulled the trigger early but I felt I would protect the price and lock in. Contrary to what some say it is almost always impossible to buy at the bottom and sell at the top.


    In 2013 it was easy to claim people paid too much but believe me no one was aware of the price drop that occurred before that. Interesting how many experts there are after the fact.


    h.o. – 65 – Response

    The population of Greater YVR is about 2.7 Million People.

    The population of B.C. is about 4.6 Million People.

    There are plenty of Major Projects that have had a positive affect on what anyone could call huge numbers of people by the B.C. Liberals.

    Yes the projects incurred some Long Term debt but consider this. The Long Term is for valuable, practical, useful Long Term debt that benefits vast numbers of the Citizens of B.C.

    2010 Olympics and the Legacy Venues

    As Lew once pointed out the idea of the NDP but actually build under the B.C. Liberals. No matter how any of you wish to spin it the 2010 Olympics benefitted the people of B.C. for decades to come

    Richmond Oval
    Canada Line – NDP idea but………
    Queen Elizabeth Park – Legacy
    Sea to Sky Hwy Rebuild
    Port Mann Bridge
    Hwy 1 Rebuild and Expansion
    Golden Eagles Bridge
    Evergreen Line – soon to begin
    B.C. Stadium – Rebuild – virtually new
    Convention Centre
    Site C – Under Construction
    Pipelines – Expansion and very close to approval

    Keep this in mind when thousands upon thousands travel from outlying areas like Squamish, Whistler, Pemberton, Abbotsford, Chilliwack, and other areas not in YVR that benefit from these large projects.

    Look at the income brought in to Hotels, Restaurants, Retail, Services, etc. that pay taxes that provide funding for Projects Province Wide.

    Also consider as you just mentioned the thousands upon thousands of jobs created and the Billions of Dollars in various Taxes collected from these projects.

    Not to mention the Draw of Billions of Dollars of Tourism from Visitors World Wide.

    My Company are now in the midst of a huge job at the NEW B.C. Children’s Hospital that will Treat and Service ALL of the Children/People of B.C. .
    Does that not benefit Thousands/Vast Numbers?

    As a matter of fact I would encourage the CC Liberal Government to look very seriously at creating another New Full Service Children’s Hospital in the Kelowna area which would Treat and Service thousands of Children and their Families away from YVR. I believe that could be one of the most important projects for a NEW B.C. Liberal Government. Perhaps someone from that Government is reading here today. Imagine how much easier a new CH in the Okanogan would be for Families in the Interior of B.C.!

    Most of those listed and I could list more were built during the time of the B.C. Liberal Government and through Tax and other incomes they benefit VAST Numbers of the People of B.C.

    Oh and yes I know Port Mann and Golden Eagles are as yet not profitable but try to tell that to the People that drive to and from work from out of town without nowhere near the frustration of time it once took.

    Tell that to those waiting for a new Massey Bridge. We could call that new Bridge the “Gene the Bean Bridge”! Kind of catchy don’t you think?

    The next big project is for the B.C. Liberals to find a way to greatly reduce or do away with the Tolls on those Bridges. That is most important and I believe you might see an announcement before March. That my friend would benefit VAST Numbers of the People of B.C.!!

    I now ask you to ask yourselves.

    Just HOW MANY of these many many Projects listed would have been completed under an NDP Government of a Premier Dosanjh, Carole James, Dawn Black, Adrian Dix?

    Perhaps Premier Eby or Premier Chandra could do something in a future NDP Government.

    Yeah Sure!

    The answer to the question is here, it now just matters how honest people want to be or how they choose to “Spin”!

  70. G. Barry Stewart says:

    13 at 67:

    It may have been just before you moved to Chilliwack — but there were sales crews hitting the neighbourhoods, dressed in hi-vis vests and hard-hats.

    The intent was surely that homeowners would be tricked into thinking the sales reps were Fortis professionals. No, they were representing a private interest — and I had no interest, especially since they were trying to pull a fast one.

    I can certainly see BMCQ’s interest in locking in his gas price for his business. He needs stability on his inputs so he can offer stability on his pricing to customers.

    For home heating, I’ll gamble on natural gas prices staying relatively depressed — and wear a sweater if I lose my shirt.

    The actual cost of gas on our Fortis bills is only a fraction of the total. We got an 80% hike in the cost of gas, as of Oct. 1. This may cost an average home $80 more per year, according to reports. Refunds will apply, if they overshot their market predictions.

    Here’s a useful chart of BC nat gas prices over time: https://www.fortisbc.com/NaturalGas/Homes/Rates/Pages/default.aspx

    And here’s how you can lock-in with a gas marketer: https://www.fortisbc.com/NaturalGas/Homes/CustomerChoice/BuyingFromAGasMarketer/Pages/default.aspx

  71. G. Barry Stewart says:

    One good thing about the predicted 80% rise in the cost of natural gas (which Fortis will pay on our behalf and bill us for) is that gas producers may soon be able to pay royalty taxes to the province.

    Norm Farrell (and the BC Liberals, quietly) have the industry pegged as a $400 million money-loser in 2016, thanks to the producers applying “production credits” against their gross income.

    The industry still has almost $2 billion in credits to eat up, so set your thermostats high this winter and perhaps we can get some natural gas revenue flowing back to Victoria, as it once did!


  72. Ron says:

    Re: #69 BMCQ // Oct 3, 2016 at 6:35 am
    The next big project is for the B.C. Liberals to find a way to greatly reduce or do away with the Tolls on those Bridges. That is most important and I believe you might see an announcement before March. That my friend would benefit VAST Numbers of the People of B.C.!!
    Harvey, I hope this isn’t too long, but I just had to rebut BCMQ’s essay.

    How do you do away with tolls unless they pay off the company they already pay equalization in the hundreds of millions every year. Also don’t forget about the 50 year shadow tolls (Macquarrie-Partnerships British Columbia Inc) every taxpayer pays for EVERY car that drives on the Sea-To-Sky highway.

    “The answer to the question is here, it now just matters how honest people want to be or how they choose to “Spin”!”
    And spin the Lieberals and you do, though you cannot say that they have one ounce of truth to that spin as evidenced by Gordon Campbell’s, “We will not sell BC Rail”(Basi-Virk), “the Convention Centre will only cost $295 million!” ($745 million), BC Hydro-IPP 50 year payout, sell-off of BC Gas (when LNG is so-o-o-o profitable), ICBC, Teck Resources-Mount Polley Mines millions in tax deferrals, etc., and who knows how many more nefarious payouts to their close friends-donators.
    Many of these projects would not have been done if honest people looked at the numbers and found that it screwed the taxpayers royally (an ode to the farce that is the supposed royal family).
    How do you explain the 50-99 year guaranteed contracts that the Liberals signed with their donators that are many times the amount that should be paid?
    How is that not criminal in nature?
    The is an affront to hard working-retired people who toil every day to survive every little nickel and dime fee that is imposed on them (now to be more property-transit taxes that were voted down in referendum last year).
    BCMQ we know you love the Liberals and your business probably benefited from their tax regime, but how do business survive if there is no one buying their product because they’ve been sold down the road for 50-99 years and struggling to pay so many fees-charges on property and on everyday living?
    There is not low inflation (2%) as said by gov’t if they do not include the 5+% rise in property taxes every year from municipal-provincial govt’s, double layer carbon taxes now being introduced by the feds, tolls-transit fares (Macquarie Group hedge fund), MSP premiums rising many times inflation since inception, plus their own salaries-perks contributing to this while limiting their workers to peanuts every year.
    How do you explain that the private company that was supposed to build the Port Mann bridge pulled out at the last minute to leave the Lieberals to fund it with our tolls-taxes? Why would they pull out if it was to be so profitable?
    How can someone honest spend $1 million +/year on photo-ops?
    I could go on ad infinitum just as you to try to convince people but the numbers speak for themselves and the workers who provide your company’s and other companies’ profits are not benefitting from this gov’t.
    These projects are paid for by those struggling with fees, and tourism provides so many jobs (minimum wage pay), so tell me how the average wage slave will benefit from ever increasing taxes-fees-house bills for the next 50-99 years if their wages do not keep up with gov’t’s own stated inflation figures?
    Please tell us you pay your workers way above normal inflation targets (not the gov’t stated ones) and PROVE IT and show us that you can PROFIT EVERY YEAR from those wages paid.
    My take is you cannot, but YOU will profit above the real inflation rate or you won’t be in business.
    Imho I vote BCMQ a Lieberal shill, paid for through the Lieberal communications dep’t. ($38 millioin/year) and no business owner. Please prove me wrong.

  73. Lew says:

    BMCQ, in recent months, the BC Liberals have recalled the Legislature on an emergency basis to deal with serious problems surrounding foreign real estate investment, found $500 million to throw at housing initiatives, and pressed the feds (who acted today) to act on loopholes in real estate tax legislation. For or over a year, the BC Liberals mocked David Eby for raising these issues and detailing how foreign investment was causing serious problems in the real estate industry. The BC Liberal caucus used its Twitter account to mock him in embarrassingly juvenile ads, and Christy Clark, Mike de Jong, Rich Coleman, and Laurie Throness mocked him in the Legislature while denying there was any problem. Throness actually told Eby to go live in Agassiz or Hope if Vancouver was too expensive for him. Throness (edited…h.o) by the way, that wanted a legislative committee to congratulate the two deputies responsible for the Basi/Virk payoff then voted against having the two appear before the committee to answer questions about their role. Unfortunately the entire BC Liberal caucus operates in the same or a worse manner than Throness. Meanwhile, David Eby is doing exactly what should be expected of an MLA, which is why the BC Liberals fear and denigrate him.

    LNG producers (including Petronas) are scaling back worldwide on new projects because the market doesn’t support proceeding. The BC Liberals knew (unless they are more incompetent than many believe) that there were serious red flags around natural gas because the applications for drilling rights virtually came to a halt a few years before they promised a fantastic explosion in production in their 2013 election platform. They knew it, but because we didn’t they promised the moon. And despite even bigger red flags, they’re still promising. You can buy it if you want, but don’t ask me to join. Natural gas has actually contributed very little net to our economy the last couple of years, and I’m afraid the BC Liberals are going to make it a long-term drain attempting to save face on this file.

    I’ll defer to your business acumen on signing up for a five-year contract on natural gas, because you know what’s best for your company. But something tells me it has more to do with the stability your company needs than recouping great dividends on the price of natural gas itself. That doesn’t work for the average citizen.

    BTW, the metals link was interesting, and your intimate knowledge of its workings is undoubtedly invaluable to your business success. I’ll give you a shout if I’m ever considering a bulk purchase of Zn or Cu.

  74. BMCQ says:

    Ron – 72

    Sure, I will open my books and show you exactly just what the Company Financial situation is.

    Actually now that I think about it for a minute I did send ALL of my Company and Personal Financial Information and Statements by e-mail to Hillary Clinton. Please ask her to check her Server!!

    I should not mention this but I will.

    FYI – My Company Manufactures Millions of Lbs. of Non-Ferrous Metal Products each year and we distribute those Products on every Continent and in fact more than likely/quite possibly each and every Marina in the Free World.

    We are a Union Company and I am proud that we have a very good working relationship with that Union. WE pay Employees slightly more than what the Contract calls for.

    The Company owns free of debt it’s own Acreage with Manufacturing Facility in YVR.

    Oh and by the way Ron, both the NDP and B.C. Liberals could not afford to pay me what my time is worth.

    I am here for the Sport and the back and Forth, I am not thinking about attempting to convert a person of your Superior Intellect to vote B.C. Liberal. Needless to say, I am no match for you.

    Lew – 73

    I should acknowledge that Eby has done a fairly good job on the housing file.

    I am happy to see people talking about the Housing situation.

    Having said that my opinion of Eby has not changed at all. Kwan, Linda Reid, Duffy, Wallin, Brazeau, the Liberal Guy and so many others now in the Trudeau Libs are also people of very questionable Character but not quite as bad as the Anarchist Eby!

    Having said that I believe it was on this Blog or somewhere else that over a year ago I pointed out that there SHOULD HAVE already been a 15 – 20% Foreign Purchasers Tax on Residential and Commercial/Industrial Property.

    I also pointed out that MOST/ALL Foreign Purchasers use U.S. Dollars to Purchase. That alone guarantees somewhere between 20 – 30% or more of a discount. For sue any Tax should be attached to the Value/Purchase Price then add the 15 – 20% of The Reserve Currency, the U.S. Dollar. Many Purchasers also use The Euro.

    Problem the Horse is already out of the Barn and the Door is slammed shut!

    I also pointed out that the real problem with FRE Purchases is CRA are not and have not done a good job with this!! And that is under both Conservative and Liberal Governments.

    I have built three Houses in Vancouver and sold them after one year to avoid any problem from CRA. I worked within the rules of CRA, MANY Foreign Purchasers have not and CRA should be doing Audits to recapture Monies los and they at the same time should be imposing HEAVY FINES.

    This has nothing to do with Racism, by acting properly and doing their job CRA would be protecting Canadian Residents.

    Eby, Horgan, The B.C. Libs, all other Provincial and Municipal Politicians and Opposition Cons and NDP should be Storming the Gates and demanding answers from the JT Government!!

    Heads should Roll at CRA!!

    CRA should offer Foreign Purchasers a period of Amnesty to negotiate a proper settlement and if thy do not come forward they should face action from CRA.

    We cannot allow the market to slide due to the fact that if the RE Market Retracted say 30% over 50% of the Mortgage Holders would be “Underwater”

    I say that admitting I have U.S. Property. If the Dems take the White House in Nov. they will soon enforce some kind of Foreign Purch. Tax along with Death Duty type tax and increase the Cap Gain tax.

    I always enjoy the exchanges with you.

    We always learn a little something from you when you post!

    By the way, I can get you a good deal on some Indium if you are so inclined.

    If what so many say is true and we will soon evolve from the use of Fossil Fuels to alternative Energies it then makes sense to Harvest, Consume, and Export as much of them ALL while we can so we at least get a return!!

    I still believe some form of LNG Export will take place within five years.

  75. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey if this is off topic, dump it. Ron, I don’t agree with most of what BMCQ writes but I don’t consider him a Leiberal shrill. he is a business man, who makes money and he votes according to what works for him and he writes from that perspective also. Some time ago he did write in general terms what he pays staff in salary and benefits. I don’t think its necessary for him to give details, its not in his businesses best interest. From my perspective BMCQ has the devil he knows and its better than the devil he doesn’t know and doesn’t trust. its a democracy and we have free speech so he gets to have his opinion. By his writing his views and ours, ours, its Keeping It Real.

    The federal LNG announcement gives Christy what she wants, even if it never gets built. Trudeau has paid off his political IOUs and will get on with running the country. In my opinion LNG is not going to bring this province much of anything and will most likely cost us a bundle if any deal is signed. All the “big” projects they have run have cost the taxpayers a bundle and will continue to do so for the next 50 years.

    Christy wants to use the LNG proposals as a way of getting votes. If people want to ignore what she and her party have done to this province, that is their problem. Its a democracy. People will simply continue to have not great health care, cuts to education, increases in fees, etc. We will be hundred dollared to death by the B.C. Lieberals. Its people’s choice. They complain and complain, but some one had to vote them into office. if they can’t figure it out by now, they never will. Obviously not enough of them have been hurt by the B.C. Lieberal agenda. We have only to look at the CBC news this morning with Mary Ellen Turpell-Lafond announcing 121 children in foster care from 2011-2014 were sexual abused while in the ministry’s care. approx. 1/4 of them by their foster parents. Some of them as young as 3 years old. then when you look at her report and see how many of them were First Nations, you know the B.C. Lieberals may talk a great talk about First Nations benefitting but their children in care, not so much.

    People will talk about how great the bridges are but most can’t afford to take them and what this province makes off of any LNG proposals will be zip to nil. Most likely we will have to pay these companies via royalty and tax breaks to open up here. there is a glut on the market.

    But hey if people vote for Christy they know what they are getting and they deserve what they get. Its just that the children don’t. Me, I can get my citizenship back in Europe and have dual citizenship and benefit from their medical system if ours gets any worse. there is more than one aging baby boomer who is doing it.

    We ought to also consider that although Trudeau gave the LNG project the go ahead, he then said carbon taxes would be $10 a ton. I suspect he knew he was doing that when he gave the LNG project the go ahead. if it is implemented then no LNG will be built here. It will be too expensive unless, of course Christy “volunteers” to have us the taxpayers pay that $10 a ton. If I get another 15 years out of this life I still don’t expect to see us exporting LNG to anywhere.

    If our economy is to “grow” we need to diversify. We need to great better paying jobs. We need to improve our public education system and how we treat our children. Right now we still have the highest rate of child poverty in Canada after all those years of having such a great economy compliments of the B.C. Lieberals.

  76. Brian says:

    I say NDP should call the Liberals bluff and go along with this project and make even more outrages claims. Even though this project is not viable. The voters of BC are lazy and this is why lying works so well. Petronas will not go ahead with this even if they get to write off the billions in getting the project built. The fact is they will lose money on all shipped product. The only way this works is if the Libs give them a deal like IPP’s have where the people of BC guarantee Petronas a price for the LNG far above market rate. Those type of long term contracts should be illegal.

  77. BMCQ says:

    e.a.f. – 75

    Thank you for introducing some Good Common Sense, Context, and Perspective into the Conversation!

    As I have mentioned more than once on the h.o. Blog, I Vote the way I do so I can help Elect the Party that I believe will benefit each of the following in the order listed.

    1. My Business

    2. The Employees

    3. My Family Members

    4. The Province

    5. The Country

    Someone accused me a while back of being “Greedy” because I put my Business and Employees ahead of my Family.

    Fact is if I was ever unable to provide/contribute to the well being of my Family they already have enough to look after them for several Generations.

    The reason I want the Business to do well is because it helps some very highly valued Employees provide for their Families.

    I assume that if my Business Ventures are successful others should/will be.

    If that is the case the Province, the Country and the Canadian People should over all be doing alright.

    I do not necessarily want the lowest price of Gasoline, I am quite happy paying a little more so The Good People of Alberta have a successful Economy and more or less full employment.

    One very big concern I have is I want Government at ALL Three Levels to control Waste, Bureaucracy, Red Tape, Over Regulations,
    Public Sector Union Bloat, and unnecessary Taxes and Services.

    For now I feel that The Federal Conservatives the B.C. Libs provide Canadians what we need.

    I am very disappointed that The Vancouver NPA have abdicated their responsibility and the Robertson “Visionites” control Vancouver City Hall.

    Please understand that on a Scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the Best I view the B.C. Liberals as a 6 in a Sea of 2’s and 3’s!!

    In other Words, better than the alternative!

  78. BMCQ says:

    The Federal Government, Provincial Governments and Municipal Governments should recognize that we in Canada must get our Natural Resources to Markets and that includes the export of LNG.

    To me it looks like PM JT has been convinced of the fact we indeed do need seriously the income from Natural Resource Development and Export that and he and his Government are doing what is necessary to provide the means to do just that.

    Time for The Federal and Provincial NDP to climb on board and support the LNG Industry.

    In the meantime the move by the Feds to go forward with LNG will benefit the B.C. Liberal Government going forward into the May Election.

  79. G. Barry Stewart says:


    Do we REALLY need to export our natural gas? How about our milk, or our beer? I’m happy with all three (and other goods) being for provincial, national or, at most, continental use.

    Unlike the goods produced at your factory, natural gas, milk and beer aren’t all that unique. Many locales produce them, so trading them is a waste of transportation and infrastructure.

    Liquefying NG is hugely wasteful of energy, even before it gets on the boat. ‘Far better for China to get their NG from a Russian pipeline.

    We should be happy with industries that efficiently produce dependable goods for our own use, as our natural gas industry does. No?

  80. BMCQ says:

    GBS – 79

    Full transparency on this. I am quoting figures and numbers completely from memory.

    Some numbers quoted may be somewhat inaccurate. Fact Checkers Fill your Boots!

    You have more than likely asked a good question here.

    Various Commodities make up about 50% of Canada Exports to the rest of the World.

    The largest being Oil in various forms which is about 25%.

    Along with Oil we export many other Commodities which make up that 50% including Lumber, Precious Metals, Gems, Pb, Cu, Al, other Metals, Gems including as of late Diamonds and other Gemstones.

    We also export Automobiles, Plastics, Aeronautical Products and Equipment, Agricultural Products, and other various Equipment.

    Right now with the retraction of OIL and Gas prices Alberta has 60 K fewer People employed than 2 years ago.

    I hate to see Unemployment anywhere in Canada, as earlier mentioned I would rather see $ 100.00 oil than have my fellow Canadians in Alberta Suffer.

    Please remember that it was only TWO Years ago there were only what 4 “Have” Provinces. B.C. Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Nfld!!

    It appears to me that that number currently stands at ONE!! Read My Lips, ONE!!

    British Columbia!!

    imagine that with us having such a Rotten, Dishonest to the Core, Lying Cheating, and Crooked B.C. Liberal Party Leading us through the Wilderness!!

    Employment and Good Paying Jobs are the Life Blood of our Country.

    Employment provides Families purpose, a means to earn a living, gives them purpose and provides Families a path to a successful future which includes everything from Shelter, Food, Education, Health Care and so many other Key Factors to provide a Family a good standard of living.

    What would any of us really have without a Healthy Diverse Job Producing Economy?

    Obviously a very big part of providing a Healthy Economy in Canada includes the ability to Harvest, Convert, and Export various Commodities. And that should include LNG.

    IF and in my opinion that is a very BIG IF we believe that the types of Energy we use to power our Economy will soon shift from the Fossil Fuels why would we not harvest and Export NG, Coal, Oil, etc.?

    Why waste it if we are about to Pivot away from Fossil Fuels?

    Until we are ready to change from FF somehow must create good paying jobs, pay for Health Care, Education Etc. do we not?

    If we in fact had a Crystal Ball and we could determine that there was no Alternative coming for say 100 years we would then need to consider conserving the Fossil Fuels we have hidden under the Tundra.

    We currently require marketing Boards to protect Milk/Dairy from imported MUCH cheaper product. We could not compete with anyone when it comes to Dairy Products and many other things.

    You are certainly correct about a fairly large consumption of Energy to produce LNG but is that not the case when we Manufacture, Harvest, Produce, Automobiles, Aluminum, Fish, Airplanes, Mining, Forestry Products, Heat and Power Schools, Hospitals, The Provincial legislature, and the Parliament Buildings?

    The Key to Resource Based Economy like Canada is to find a Balance that works well for ALL Canadians and their needs, the Greater Good.

    No Barry we do need to export LNG until we can take the next Big Step to Fossil Fuel Free Utopia!!

    I am sure David Suzuki, Leonardo Di Caprio, Prince Charles, or Al Gore will soon come up with an answer to our concerns, correct?

    As a matter of fact I understand all of them are currently discussing import solutions to Climate Change as they all together Cruise the Mediterranean on Leo’s 300 ft. Yacht!!

    Of course that Yacht will have a Full Crew of 20 or so 18 – 25year Old Nymphets!!

    Pigs and Hypocrites, All of them!

    Also keep in mind that if we in Canada were to all of a sudden at 12:00 PM today turn off every single Machine, TV, Light Bulb, Hospital X-Ray Room, School Power, and Hot Tub across our Country we would only account to save LESS than .5% on the so-called “Green House Gas” Meter!!

    That Barry is not any more than a Rounding Off Correction in the real World!

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