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Grizzly Hunt Ban a GREAT Move!

August 15th, 2017 · 38 Comments

Have to admit it … I have always hated big game trophy hunting.

I never understood what pleasure could be derived from hunting down a magnificent, totally innocent animal in the wild and killing it … just for fun.

It’s not done for food, not for survival, not to protect people, not to preserve livestock … but just to enjoy the act of bringing down big game.  Even worse, it is sometimes carried out using technology and weaponry that is so powerful with such long-range capability, the activity shouldn’t even be called a sport.

For what?  A bear skin or lion’s coat or tiger’s head or magnificent animal’s antlers to hang on a wall?   Or for paws or other animals organs to aid old men get erections?  No doubt ALL of those “trophies” are already produced synthetically … and a lot cheaper … than by murdering the animals for TOTALLY selfish  purposes.

By now, especially if you have read this blog for a while  (not long ago about despicable illegal Japanese whaling practices) , you will not be surprised when, in the interest of full disclosure, I mention have long been a supporter and donor to both the Sea Shepherd Organization AND the BC Wildlife Federation.

So I applaud the NDP government’s decision to ban grizzly bear trophy hunting as of Nov. 30.  Wish it could be sooner.

But while I understand … I am very skeptical … of a loophole that will continue … permitting hunting for “meat” purposes.

The government MUST ensure that whenever a grizzly is killed for “food” after the trophy hunting ban goes into effect, NO parts of the carcass (head, paws, gall bladder, hide) are kept or sold or traded off by those who aided or participated in any way in the killing.

Up to 300 grizzlies have been killed annually by hunters in BC in the past … leaving a current total population of 15,000.

And this being BC., there is a political side to this story as well.

This from the Desmog Canada website:

“According to B.C. government statistics, about 300 grizzlies are killed each year by trophy hunters. Eighty-seven per cent of known, human-caused grizzly bear deaths in B.C. are attributable to trophy hunters, who have killed 12,026 grizzly bears since the government began keeping records in 1975.

“Foreign hunters account for about 30 per cent of all trophy kills in B.C. in any given year and they can pay upwards of $30,000 for the proper permits and the assistance of a guide outfitter. Former premier Christy Clark supported the grizzly trophy hunt and the BC Liberals received nearly $60,000 in donations from guide outfitter associations since 2005.

“Earlier this year, Safari Club International put its name behind a $60,000 fundraising effort for the Guide Outfitters Association of BC. In a post on Facebook, the Canadian chapter for Safari Club International wrote: “NDP have vowed to end the Grizzly hunt in BC if elected. SCI chapters from CANADA and the USA banded together donating $60000.00.”

You can read Desmog’s full article here: https://www.desmog.ca/2017/08/14/breaking-b-c-end-grizzly-bear-trophy-hunting.

The new government will consult with outfitters and others affected economically by the trophy hunting ban.

It has been a brutal, disgraceful “sport”,  so I hope when the outfitters come  hunting for public sympathy and funds,  any “compensation” is limited in both amount and duration.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts of new topics on this blog by following @harveyoberfeld.ca on Twitter. No spam … just First Alerts of new postings.   And Comments on all topics are invited. )

 

Tags: British Columbia

38 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Hawgwash // Aug 15, 2017 at 8:02 am

    Seems not everyone agrees with you and as it stands, this move could be easily defeated in the House and leave the NDP with stuff on their face.
    http://www.andrewweavermla.ca/2017/08/14/political-stunts-political-spin-confusing-tale-governments-inept-grizzly-bear-policy/

    (Response: This assumes ALL the “new” Liberal party MLAs would also oppose… don’t bet on that. Although it’s not a money bill, so the government would not fall, I think the Greens would face a big backlash if the legislation failed because they don’t get everything they would like and the slaughter continues. h.o)

  • 2 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 15, 2017 at 8:10 am

    I agree: great move — and one more election promise delivered.

    But what about the hundreds of jobs that depend on the trophy hunt? I know it’s not the same demographic… but the guides and outfitters could switch gears and guide photographers on grizzly hunts, similar to whale watches.

    As a photographer, I know the long lenses cost a small fortune. A guide could offer long lenses as part of a rental package and make some extra $$ that way.

    Times have changed. Shift gears.

  • 3 Marge // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:37 am

    Just as all the foreign buyers have got around the 15% surtax (ask any realtor about this sham) so will the trophy hunters get around this by using a First Nations guide who will then “use” the hunted animal for meat. It’s all about the perception of doing the right thing these days, not anything to do with the reality.

    (Response: That IS a concern: that the NDP will pass the legislation…but then enforce it when it comes to others, but not have the spine to go after First Nations guides who defy the law …not for food, but for cash from rich tourists who want trophies. That’s why it is IMPERATIVE the government demands that NO animal parts other than the meat be carried off, sold or traded and then polices the law, seeking HARSH penalties (not just a small cut of the action) even if it’s against First Nations violators. h.o)

  • 4 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:42 am

    I saw the Weaver piece just after making my comment at #2.

    This is an example of Weaver posturing, so the Greens can be seen as being distinct from the NDP. No problem with that — but it might make for some very entertaining skating!

  • 5 Harry lawson // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:48 am

    Harvey,

    Let’s ban all trophy hunting, big horn sheep for example. In my opinion Hunting for food and survival is ok hunting for a trophy or body parts while leaving the rest of the animal to rot is not.

    Many are going to talk about the spin off economic effects of trophy hunters , that may be so ,however I believe that that there is more potential economic spin off from Eco tourism. Kudos to the NDP on this one ,however they should include all trophy hunting.

    (Response: Yes, all TROPHY hunting. I realize hunting is a sport or even a way to harvest meat …for people who go out to bag a few ducks or rabbits or geese (even if I would not) … IF they cart it away and eat it. And the same for UNTHREATENED fish…but there’s no excuse for slaughtering endangered whales, or killing sharks just for the dorsal fin or an elephant for a tusk or a big horned sheep for a head/antlers. Disgusting … should be stopped. h.o)

  • 6 Diverdarren // Aug 15, 2017 at 10:51 am

    Harvey, I have no interest in game hunting, it’s not my thing. If it goes the way of fox hunting, so be it.

    As a culture our society culturally evolves, we are watching normal social development.

    But different sections of our society are not growing together. In fact, we are purposefully forcing evolution on certain people while retarding evolution on others. And we do this based on race!

    See the latest Supreme Court of Canada decision regarding Native cultural rights.
    Clyde River (Hamlet) v. Petroleum Geo?Services Inc. (2017)
    “Most residents of Clyde River are Inuit, who rely on marine mammals for food and for their economic, cultural, and spiritual well-being. They have harvested marine mammals for generations. The bowhead whale, the narwhal, the ringed, bearded, and harp seals, and the polar bear are of particular importance to them.”

    If on one hand you recognize the importance of hunting for cultural and spiritual purposes for natives, then on the other hand say trophy hunting is a barbaric practice, there is a flaw in your reasoning. But Andrew Weaver made this flawed argument.

    http://www.straight.com/news/572766/andrew-weaver-we-need-end-trophy-hunt-british-columbia

    It is a fundamental undermining of our concept of equality when in the same argument you say that non-natives’ hunting as part of their culture is a “cruel, selfish and barbaric practice”, and that “social justifications for the practice [trophy hunting] don’t add up. But, also say that, “This [legislated amendment] was carefully written to protect the rights of First Nations”

    When differentiation are made on race that is racism. Race based laws undermine the higher ideal of Natural Justice.

    I want to see an end to hunting for cultural or spiritual well-being for all the members of society. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s hunting eagles for feathers, or whales for clan gatherings. It also doesn’t matter if it’s grizzly paws, or catch and release sport fishing. It’s a barbaric practice from our collective pasts. But race based laws are also a barbaric practice from our collective past that needs to relegated to the past.

    (Response: There are many, many cultural and spiritual practices all around the world many non-believers find silly, even troubling, but which we respect. I feel First Nations cultural and food needs and desires deserve the same respect… BUT they should not be allowed to be used as cover to continue a murderous slaughter of animals for cash or fun. h.o.)

  • 7 BMCQ // Aug 15, 2017 at 11:13 am

    I agree that Trophy Hunting of ALL kinds must be banned and the Government must ensure that there are NO Loop Holes available for those that wish to get around the Regulation.

    As it appears the Legislation would not be enacted there ARE Loop Holes and one wonders if the Horgans for some reason intend to allow that Loop Hole to stand.

    There will be Hundreds or more that will somehow manipulate the “Hunting for Food” Loop Hole to suit their purposes.

    In fact I believe another whole new Industry will evolve out of this IMPOTENT and ANEMIC Legislation.

    I also believe that the “Hunt for Food” will end up much like the First Nations Ceremonial Fish for Food Charade and FN will soon be “Hunting for Food” then Selling the Paws, Bladder, Claws, Head and whatever else might be desired by mostly Chinese Consumers.

    Will Government Officials ever learn? Perhaps I should ask this Do they even want to learn?

    Barry – 2

    I agree it is the right thing to do and I realize it was an Election Plank but the Cynic in me cannot help believe that a huge part of this Announcement is Deflection.

    Let’s face it the NDP need to deflect from the mistakes of the past two weeks and this is a “Red Meat” Issue for MSM and the masses.

    As to Weaver?

    Simply Window Dressing Barry, he knows his Sabre Rattling will play to MSM and his Base and he at least looks somewhat independent and at the same time it looks like he is Holding the NDP’s Feet to the Fire.

    DO NOT worry Barry Seaver will never let the NDP down on a Confidence Vote, the Green survival depends on Bending Over the the NDP every step of the way from now until Oct. 2021.

    Harry – 5

    Harvey – 5 – Response

    A Great Post and a great Response.

    I believe Polls if we can believe them show us that about 75% of the Province are against the Trophy Hunt, I would hope that would be enough for the NDP to do away with the Hunting of Bears and other Trophy Animals All Together!

    Now it is time for Weaver, the NDP Cabinet and MLA’s, and the People of B.C. to Lobby Horgan for meaningful Legislation on this very important matter.

    What the Hell, Horgan gets no support from anyone in B.C. other than YVR and Vancouver Island, what has he got to lose?

    (Response: I do worry if the NDP will have the backbone to stand up against violators …whoever they are. The ban will NOT work and will lose public backing if it is only selectively applied. h.o.)

  • 8 Gene The Bean // Aug 15, 2017 at 11:45 am

    Trophy hunters are, thankfully, a different breed than most of us.

    I used to work with one. Proudly displayed himself holding the lifeless bodies of a grizzly, a really big cougar, a bison (shot on a “reserve” – now that’s sportsmanship), bighorn sheep etc etc. During one conversation I said I don’t believe in trophy hunting and he said only liberal pussy’s think that – ’nuff said.

    Similar to Trumps son’s proudly posing with slaughtered big game in Africa – it is a mindset.

    I know a few that post here will make their little ‘innuendos’ about natives and the economy – just the normal blathering from those who cant/wont understand the morality of this or any other issue.

    Good on the NDP for outlawing this. Anyone that doesn’t just worship ‘the dollar’ will agree. These types of decisions are what good government is all about.

  • 9 e.a.f. // Aug 15, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    I’ve been waiting for the NDP to do this. I detest the trophy hunting. its one thing to go out and shoot a moose, or deer for food, but this trophy hunting is just another e.g. of why humans can be bad for the environment.

    There is no need to hunt bear in B.C. We have plenty of deer, just come to Vancouver island. O.K. not so much, some of these deer here are so tame, they use the cross walk in the town of Comox to get from the golf course to the park below Comox Ave. I kid you not. They use the cross walk

  • 10 John's Aghast // Aug 15, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    You’re showing your bias Harvey. What about all the jobs, jobs, jobs. I’ll bet there are at least 2,000 guides, packers, helicopter pilots and the like making a living from this enterprise.

    And I don’t condone hunting at all. I shot my first and last moose over 50 years ago (for meat) when I realized what a cruel advantage I had over them.

    (Response: Absolutely showing my bias! Proud of it! As I stated quite clearly in my piece: I hate trophy hunting; also hate whaling, killing sharks for fins, etc. etc. I am a supporter and contributor to the Cdn Wildlife Federation, the Sea Shepherd Society …and, I forgot to mention also the BCSPCA. Yes, clearly biased against the slaughter of animals for fun, wall hangings or testicle arousers … and have proudly and happily and said so. Sometimes I wonder if you even read my blogs? h.o)

  • 11 Hawgwash // Aug 15, 2017 at 6:59 pm

    G Barry;
    Posturing for sure and plotted between them, I say.

    I have no doubt Horgan and Weaver talk regularly to discus “we say, you say.”

  • 12 Rocker Rich // Aug 15, 2017 at 7:15 pm

    Reviving the war on bears was one of the first things the Campbell government did upon assuming office. I immediately regretted having voted for them and–largely due to that one issue–never did again mark an X for a BC Liberal. (Probably not coincidentally, provincial conservation officers largely abandoned relocation of urban-wandering bears and cougars and pretty well shot them on sight, under the BC Libs.)

    The native loophole will undoubtedly be exploited. As you note, hopefully the NDP will have the cojones to penalize aboriginal tricksters. In any event, fewer of these magnificent animals will be dying in the months or years that this fragile government rules.

  • 13 Eldon // Aug 15, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    How boring when everyone agrees.

    (Response: Will try to come up something more divisive next time. ;) h.o)

  • 14 e.a.f. // Aug 15, 2017 at 8:13 pm

    don’t know why people would eat bear meat. it comes with parasites and if the bear has been eating fish it doesn’t taste good either. Bear just doesn’t taste all that good so it is doubtful people can make an argument its something good to eat. If it isn’t good to eat why have it as part of a food exemption. its not like there aren’t a lot of deer and moose in this province.

  • 15 BMCQ // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:06 pm

    Rich – 12

    It is only a guess but if the Horgan are serious about the Banning of the Bear Hunt and enact suitable Legislation that has no Loop Holes, Teeth with appropriate penalties and creates enough of a deterrent for Cheaters the Ban will live forever.

    I do not think there is any going back on this one.

  • 16 Hawgwash // Aug 16, 2017 at 10:13 am

    This will be an interesting file to watch.

    I am starting to feel nervous about my favoured (not favorite) legislators.

    Going soft on native hunts?
    Going soft on pay for play?
    Going soft on major promises; scattering crumbs on minor ones.

    Shunning interviews…

    Now I see Eby is thinking about rewarding drivers who voluntarily disable phones while driving. Take the damn reward money to add enforcement. Good grief.

    I didn’t vote for fluffy kittens folks.

  • 17 Hawgwash // Aug 16, 2017 at 11:09 am

    Troubling to me, is giving natives or any special interest an unenforceable pass. It is just a waste of time feel good legislation.

    There is little to no enforcement or consequences for game poaching, illegal fisheries or any other law requiring real people and a court system to deal with it.

  • 18 david hadaway // Aug 16, 2017 at 2:46 pm

    After hearing Minister Donaldson on the radio announcing that this was more than had been promised, I rapidly realised it was less. We will see how badly the exemptions turn out, abuse is certain, but there is no excuse for allowing the fall hunt to proceed. Stopping it would require no more than a few refunds of money that should never have been taken in the first place.

    This is one thing that has really disappointed me, far more than the other topics raised by Harvey lately, and I still haven’t decided whether or not to end my monthly debit to the party.

    As to the moaning about jobs, quite aside from the morality of the issue any competent businessman plans for the future and prepares for change.While not wishing harm on anyone, even those who have facilitated this repulsive activity, those who lose out really have to take responsibility for any problems they now encounter because this partial ban has been on the cards for a long time and sooner or later it will be complete.

    (Response: Readers will know I am always concerned about the importance of jobs to give people a way to support themselves and their families through honest, decently-paid work… without accepting assistance. But helping rich people hunt down and kill majestic animals that are not threatening anyone just for fun or trophy parts is not honest, decently-paid work. And the government should be very careful not to allow SOME people to do it for those reasons … especially based on race … while forbidding others. h.o)

  • 19 13.. // Aug 16, 2017 at 7:57 pm

    Heres my 2 cents. Ban it. Ban all game hunting. BUT theres always a but, all bans apply to all Canadians without any exceptions other than a food source. Not to donate the meat to any charity . Anyone caught cheating subject to a first time fine of no less than $5000. Second offences a minimum 6 months jail and the 5 gs. No exemptions for First Nations.

  • 20 BMCQ // Aug 17, 2017 at 7:59 am

    After reading all 19 Posts once again and also listening and watching other Media on this in Canada and other places I believe the Province should take Leadership over this and list Any and ALL BANS on Hunting Wildlife of many kinds and list those Animal Species that fit the criteria.

    Unless we Ban/Prohibit Any and All Hunting and Killing those Animals protected under the new Legislation in NO uncertain Terms with Heavy Penalties as deterrent there will be Loop Holes and Manipulation by various Groups and that must be prevented with serious consequences for those that cheat.

    And as many of us heave previously stated that Legislation should apply to anyone living or visiting British Columbia and that includes First Nations.

    I cannot pretend to be any kind of an expert on this but the list should include.

    Bears of all kinds
    Big Horn Sheep
    Horses
    Cougars
    Eagles

    Believe me once that Bear Hunting is Banned many other Animal Species will become Targets of frustrated Hunters.

    Of course some would recommend more and some less but not knowing much about Wildlife I will leave a more complete list to others.

    NO Exceptions for Food Hunting of ANY Kind!!

    If the NDP allow ANY Kind of Exemption for ANY reason this whole action will be a waste of time, money, and it will allow the destruction of some of Natures most Majestic Animals.

    I have Family Members that have been Hunters their entire lives and when they read this they will not be too pleased with me.

  • 21 nonconfidencevote // Aug 17, 2017 at 5:01 pm

    @#20 BMCQ

    I’ve never understood or agreed with “trophy hunting’ but I do know people that enjoy hunting for meat and the enjoyment of the hunt….
    But your list…..?
    While I realize a lot of people from Europe eat horse meat.
    Who “hunts” horses for trophy?
    Eagles? Arent they a protected species?

  • 22 nonconfidencevote // Aug 17, 2017 at 5:13 pm

    @ BMCQ
    “No exceptions for food hunting of any kind!’
    *****
    True Story time .
    A friend of mine grew up with 7 other siblings.
    His catholic father was deaf, uneducated seasonally employed…they were dirt poor and they ALL lived a hard scrabble existance.
    The ONLY meat they ever ate was deer meat. The kids…. to this day….. despise deer meat, cabbage, turnips and blueberries.
    The deaf father lived in a rural area of Canada and would hunt out of season to feed his family. Survival trumped Laws.
    One day, out of season, he shot a deer and the Lands and Forest officer heard it and caught him.

    Seized his rifle, his gear, his 30 year old truck and arrested him.
    90 days later. In front of a judge, without a lawyer, the deaf, unemployed defendant with his wife and 8 kids in the Court room….pled guilty with his explanation of sustinence for his family.
    The judge fined him $1 and ordered the Lands and Forest officer to return his rifle, truck and the deer meat kept as evidence…………

  • 23 BMCQ // Aug 17, 2017 at 8:00 pm

    NonCon – 21

    I made sure I began my comment by saying “I cannot pretend to be any kind of expert on this but etc.”.

    The reason I covered myself is because I do/did not know what is protected and what is not.

    The fact is until I started travelling to Burnaby for Work my Wilderness was bordered by the Waldorf Hotel, the Sylvia Hotel, Downtown on the DES, Downtown Nightclubs and Bars, and Kits Billiards at Broadway and Trutch, that was my World so being a City Boy my exposure to the Hunt and the Heartland was virtually non existent.

    Honestly I threw Horses in there because I am aware that Horses have been Shot and Killed by Rogue Hunters or Macho Types plenty of times as my Wife works with Horses on a regular basis.
    She has even told me that she has heard of Horses and other Livestock being Shot and killed with Arrows for Sport, how disgusting.

    I added Horses as I believe those majestic Animals and many others should be named and included in any meaningful Legislation so there can be NO confusion or excuses. A severe Penalty including Jail time and a Heavy Fine should be included in the Poaching of any Animal on a Protected List.

    The way I look at it with the Courts and Judiciary the way they are today any meaningful Protected Species Legislation should name ALL Protected Animals and the Penalties should be well defined and there should be no room for INTERPRETATION.

    Never leave anything to chance and NEVER TRUST A JUDGE, they are always the Wild Card in any Deck.

    As to the Eagles? The attached address that somewhat.

    http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/growing-demand-for-first-nations-art-dance-costumes-fuels-black-market-eagle-feathers-trend/wcm/8207003a-2403-479b-b416-55d59e7f56ed

    It infuriates me that First Nations get dispensation and can take advantage of Lop Holes or literally Reverse Discrimination Legislation.

    Before anyone gets their “Man Bun” in a Knot my Wifes Father was Metis and she proudly has Cree Blood flowing through her Veins.

    When I was a Boy there were two Butcher Shops that sold Horse Meat in Vancouver, one at Broadway and Fraser and one at Hastings east of main. Never went in either one.

    AS to your friends Family?

    Great story, my Wifes Family survived much the same way when she was raised in Red Deer, never purchased anything out of a Butcher Shop!

    Times were tough but My Wife who was the Tom Boy of the Family and her Dad were both Good Shots!

    I still believe that whichever Animals are on a serious meaningful Protected list there should be no exemptions for Food.

    I ask you to look at the First nations Ceremonial and Food Fish Industry.

    A Scam if there ever was one.

    I admit I could be way off base on the Food hunt but I believe we cannot leave anything to chance or interpretation.

    I do however feel that confident that with about 75% of the Province being against the Bear Hunt most would be ALL IN on this and they would support the NO Food Hunt.

    It is not too often I have a strong opinion on any issue but there you go.

  • 24 Hawgwash // Aug 17, 2017 at 8:57 pm

    Keep in mind, this is only about Grizzlies.

    The public is infatuated by them and know nothing about them.

    Black and brown bears are still and will continue to be hunted. Most of which are turned into pepperoni.

    Trophy cougars too.

    From an article about a stranded infant dolphin stressed to death by crowds;
    “Once again we note that the human being is the most irrational species that exists, there are many incapable of empathy for a living being alone, scared, starved, without his mother and terrified, because many of you, in your selfishness…all you want is to photograph and poke, even if the animal suffers from stress.”

  • 25 RIsaak // Aug 18, 2017 at 9:24 am

    I come from a hunting family, with a former conservation officer amongst us.

    For the first time I have to say I strongly agree with BMCQ, the opportunity for end runs around the limited ban being put forward leaves far too much interpretative leeway for our exceptionally unchecked judiciary.

    The First nation food & ceremonial fishery is a glaring example of why this requires much more thought, much more teeth and enforcement on all people equally. I recently witnessed a FN Food fishery boat tossing salmon onto a commercial sales boat, right in plain view of a DFO office. I have some relations who are in the fishing & processing business, and I do know who is FN and who is not. I’ve spent over 700 days on the Fraser observing this repeated end run around regulations in the past 5 years.

    I think that this lack of enforcement and such will only be worse in the hunting areas, due to the remote locals and impossible task of monitoring all which goes on in the wilderness. Trophy hunters can shoot captive game at private game ranches if they need their fix of pulling the trigger, leave the wild creatures to inhabit the wilderness. Just my .02

  • 26 BMCQ // Aug 18, 2017 at 9:46 am

    Yes I realize this only about Grizzlies.

    I have not given this a lot of thought but I honestly feel that because of Cultural changes due to Immigration and at the same time Demand for the Export of various Animal Parts from various Species of Animals of B.C. and Canada along with the interest in Trophy Hunting it is about time Governments Federal and Provincial passed Legislation with clarity and defined guidelines about what is Legal and Illegal.

    Again only my opinion and who ever agrees with me on this Blog but I feel we should include many Species on that Protected List so there are NO “Gray Areas” and it is clear to all with NO Translation required that there are severe Penalties without exception for Offenders NO Matter who they are.

    Again, “Well Defined” and then thee will be no good excuse for offenders.

    It sickens me to think that individuals want Animal Paws, Gall Bladders, Horns, or whatever else just so they can fool themselves into believing they are Healthier, Stronger, or John Holmes!!

    I believe that Legislation like this would appeal to a very large percentage of people in this Province and we are better to act now than Kick the Can down the road for another ten years.

    It is the right thing to do.

  • 27 e.a.f. // Aug 18, 2017 at 12:16 pm

    13 at #19, “no exceptions for First Nations”. How about we replace that and write no exceptions for Jews. No exceptions for African American, Now we have a debate.

    first there will be treaties which were signed by the federal and provincial governments which provide for First Nation’s exemptions. What message does society send if those treaties are now torn up because a bunch of middle class mostly white “enviornmentalists” decide its not “cool” to shoot bears at all?

    Some may object on the grounds that the food fishery has been abused so then will the bear, cougar, whatever animal hunt. What the food fishery provided for was fishing for food. Now when some of those treaties were signed life was very different for First Nations and they were in fact hunter/gatherers and had the room to do so. Fast forward a few generations and people no longer have the room to roam and hunt and diets are very different. If your main source of food is the food fishery but you have toddlers who don’t eat fish, how do you pay for toddler/baby food. How do you pay for flour, milk, vegggies, etc. In my opinion there is nothing wrong in selling fish from a food fishery to provide for other foods. One can not live on salmon alone, just as one cannot live on love alone. Unbalanced diet.

    Now many of us can site e.g.s of the abuse of the “food fishery” but really did any of us report it, refuse the “great deal” on the $10 sockey salmon. Yupp not too many. A food fishery can be regulated as can other food hunting systems, but they may have to include the realities of today’s life style.

    When some one’s way of making a living is hunting and they have treaty rights then we as a society need to respect that. Lets stop singling out the exceptions.

    (edited…off topic. h.o)

    If they have no other way to make a living, then why would we ban them from an area where they can make a living. Some may think its being given special priviledges, well have a look at how many are forced to live, without clean water. Is that a priviledge. Food hunting for First Nations can be regulated, there just isn’t much of a political will. And for gods sake don’t write I have friends who are First Nations……yak, yak, yak. We are all prejudiced to some extent. Its what we do with that prejudice. It doesn’t matter what you think, its what you act out.

    as to those who would write, its not fair to “white” hunters, guides, etc. well welcome to the real world. life has been unfair for so many people of colour, Jews, Muslims, etc. Some times your white priviledge just gets you one the “wrong” side of things. Just think how the First Nations felt all those decades, when they were the “exempted” ones.

  • 28 13.. // Aug 18, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    @eaf, you can add any group you like. Personally I am tired of catering to First Nations. Harper wanted them to start to be accountable and that never occurred So in order to stay on topic Cancel the treaties that allow them to hunt for any species that the rest of us (Second Nations)are banned fro hunting. Go to court , do what it takes

  • 29 e.a.f. // Aug 18, 2017 at 11:17 pm

    13 at #38, just think of how tired the First Nations must be of us, the invaders. Its not like we did them any favours. If you don’t like the First nations having treaty rights go back to where your family came from. Its just that easy. The First Nations were here first. The Canadian or rather in some cases the British government signed treaties to get the majority of land. Just because its inconvient for some, years later, well too bad. Just think how up set the First nations are with their ancestors.

    So if they have treaty rights to hunt, fish, etc. and the courts have upheld their rights and have determined what constitutes their rights, we will just have to suck it. its not like there aren’t other court decisions we don’t like in this country.

  • 30 OldIslander // Aug 19, 2017 at 6:28 am

    I’m a former hunter, and I have a few questions for all the anti-hunting posters here. How many of you are vagans?

    Non-hunters simply cannot understand what motivates hunters. The need to hunt is primal in many folks – men and women — a part of our psyche since our ancestors climbed down from the trees two million years ago. Most hunters feel more ‘honest’ about the meat on their table, then having purchased it in a styrofoam tray, wrapped in plastic, from a grocery store.

    So if you are not a vegan, and if you eat red meat or poultry or seafood or wear leather shoes or belts or coats, or sit on leather furniture, are you not being hypocritical about condemning hunters? Are you not in effect, paying other people to do your killing for you?

    (Response; Let’s keep it real; the government’s planned ban would not ban all hunting…just TROPHY hunting of grizzlies… killing just for the head or paws or gall bladders or skin to hang on a wall etc …nothing to do with hunting for food. Nothing. h.o)

  • 31 13 // Aug 19, 2017 at 10:36 am

    Sorry eaf I don’t share your guilt and I’m not going anywhere. I will continue to support the conservative party and it’s goals.
    I don’t begrudge you your guilt so allow me to live in Canada guilt free. Thanks

  • 32 Gene The Bean // Aug 19, 2017 at 12:47 pm

    #31
    Thanks for proving all my points about conservatives.

  • 33 Hawgwash // Aug 19, 2017 at 12:49 pm

    OldIslander at 30:

    “Non-hunters simply cannot understand what motivates hunters. The need to hunt is primal in many folks – men and women — a part of our psyche since our ancestors climbed down from the trees two million years ago. Most hunters feel more ‘honest’ about the meat on their table, then having purchased it in a styrofoam tray, wrapped in plastic, from a grocery store.”

    I understand the motivation but sorry, while I agree with the bit about the hunt being “a part of our psyche since our ancestors climbed down from the trees two million years ago,” the rest is just red herringism.

    When our ancestors came out of the trees they mated within the family and slew other tree climber downers. Ate them even. Most, by today, have evolved and outgrown those practices. I say most because there are still enough throwback whackos to keep “incest’ and “cannibalism” in the dictionary.

    Most hunters do it for the sport and in the context of this blog, for trophies. The meat is secondary. They eat what they kill because they have it, as a by-product. I mentioned black bears earlier. They are killed just for the sport and the meat is so ugly, pepperoni is the only way to stomach it. It might as well be pepperoni golf balls for all the flavour it has.

    Most hunters I know are ritualistic about the hunt. They post what, to themselves, is funny deer/bear/moose/goose crap online and adorn their trucks with hunt stickers. They head for the Caribou in the fall and stop at the Gang Ranch to shoot caged and released pheasant along the way. What great skill to kill for sustenance that is. It’s strictly a male whoop, whoop, bonding thing before the scotch is spilled.

    Your vegan argument just doesn’t cut it.

  • 34 BMCQ // Aug 19, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    13 – 31

    Thank you for pointing out how Millions of Hard Working, Tax Paying, Charitible, Moral, and Intelligent Rational Conservative thinking Canadians feel about Equality for our Population regardless of Ethnicity, Religion, Skin Colour or Gender.

    ‘Equality for All, Special Status fro None”!

    Old Islander – 30

    I was raised in a House that had e Guns in it, both my Parents were very good Shooters but for some reason I never took an interest.

    When I was 16 I had a great Job at Safeway and i thought i was making Big Money. I bought a Shot Gun and went Duck Hunting once and When a wounded Duck landed beside me and it looked up at me just before my classmate wrung it’s Neck I was cured, sold my Gun and never Hunted again.

    I do not begrudge Hunters or Hunting, I eat meat, poultry, fish, and whatever else is on the Menu but it is my personal,opinion that Trophy Hunting for ALL Bears, Mountain Goats, Domesticated Animals, and several others that are are already protected should be Listed and any Individual that disobeys the Law should face a serious Fine and Jail time.

    I have no concern about people Hunting and Eating Animals as long as those Animals are not on a protected list.

    I am however of the opinion that there should be absolutely NO Exceptions for anyone including First Nations People to Hunt and Eat Animals, Sea Creatures or Birds from the Protected Lists.

    It creates ambuity and it opens the Courts and Judiciary up to Interpretation, Influence, and Inconsistencies that will cause nothing but delays and cost the Tax Payers $Millions of Dollars and create confusion and in fact open a can of worms.

    This is simple and as usual Canadians for some reason need to create a Sh*T Storm out of nothing.

    Why are Canadians so quick to make solutions so very difficult?

  • 35 e.a.f. // Aug 19, 2017 at 2:26 pm

    13, please do not say you’re sorry. You ought not to apologize for your honestly held opinions or feel sorry for mine. I have no guilt about whatever it is you may think I have guilt about.

    (Edited…off topic. h.O)

  • 36 13 // Aug 19, 2017 at 5:52 pm

    Gtb your points about conservatives are juvenile and hate filled. Because you posted your bitter hatred does not prove anything about anybody.

    (Response:This is now getting WAY off topic. h.o)

  • 37 DBW // Aug 20, 2017 at 9:05 am

    I was going to sit this one out Harvey. I am against trophy hunting for emotional rather than scientific or economic reasons. So anything I had to offer would be minimal.

    However, I have to laugh at

    Eldon // Aug 15, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    How boring when everyone agrees.

    (Response: Will try to come up something more divisive next time. ;) h.o)

    Four days later and we are as divisive as ever.

    Pot shots at First Nations
    white guilt
    Conservative morality

    Happy Sunday.

  • 38 Crankypants // Aug 21, 2017 at 12:08 am

    Calling trophy hunting a sport is a joke. The hunters are armed with the latest, greatest killing armaments while the prey have nothing but their survival skills to depend on.

    This ban is a good idea as long as it can be enforced. Unfortunately all too often we are presented with laws and regulations that over promise and under deliver. They are either poorly written, purposely or poorly thought out, or just not enforceable due to the lack of staffing to police those that break the law.