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How Will the Whales Know the Difference?

October 15th, 2018 · 24 Comments

I never knew Premier John Horgan and his NDP cohorts have such a great sense of humour!

But there was BC’s self-proclaimed environmental champion, standing right next to Prime Minister Justin Trudeau in Kitimat … both of them beaming and laughing … thoroughly enjoying themselves at the prospect of a $40 Billion Liquid Natural Gas pipeline, processing megaproject plant that will bring hundreds of additional tankers to the West coast each year.

“This is a spectacular day for all British Columbians,” the NDP leader deadpanned.

“I can’t tell you how proud and how pleased I am to have the opportunity to lead the government’s work with all levels of government to make life better for all British Columbians,” Horgan pontificated  … reminding me of some Jerry Seinfeld-created character trying to court favour with his targeted audience.

“I can’t stop smiling,”  the Premier grinned, delivering his political punchline to those within listening range.

But environmental activists … especially those with intact memories … were not laughing.

Why?

Because as Michael Smyth, columnist for The Province, in fact recalled, there used to be another Horgan/NDP … without the big grin when it came to LNG.

“Although the official NDP position was to support the industry in principle, the New Democrats opposed the Petronas project and ridiculed Christy Clark’s previous Liberal government for its optimistic courting of the LNG sector” Smyth wrote in September.

“I would stop spending all my time talking about an industry that’s going nowhere,” Horgan said in 2015.”

(You can read the entire Smyth column here: https://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-lng-politics-ramp-up-as-massive-project-approval-looms … a really highly pertinent retrospective. )

In fact, in 2017, the new NDP government went so far as to cancel an international LNG conference planned for BC. Naysayers denounced and ridiculed the Christy Clark Liberal regime’s LNG dreams: the world LNG markets are oversupplied; the prices are too low; the environmental and coastal vessel impact would be devastating.

Some even pooh-poohed Clark’s LNG industry push as a “fantasy’ and even “pixie dust”.

Now they’re all sneezing!

Although certainly nothing to sneeze at are the huge GIVE-AWAYS the NDP have agreed to for the project:

“Horgan’s government promised LNG Canada in March approximately $5.3 billion in tax breaks, including exempting the project from planned increases to the carbon tax and exempting construction from the provincial sales tax” The Vancouver Sun reported  Oct. 4.

The NDP is also reportedly “repealing the previous Liberal government’s 3.5 per cent LNG income tax”… and is looking at ways to do that without even having the Legislature vote on the matter, so the Greens don’t quash the deal!    (Read The Sun full story here: https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/horgan-considers-ways-to-pass-lng-canada-project-without-a-vote.)

Talk about GIVE-AWAYS to big corporations and offshore resource developers! And this is being done by the NDP!!!

Can you even imagine the outcry on the left if the Liberals had not only given such massive tax breaks but also promised not to invoke a planned LNG income tax?

No laughing matter there …. but what we could all laugh about today … or cry over … is the hypocrisy of the NDP’s newfound belief in not only the viability of massive LNG exports, but also their huge give-aways to seal the deal and  their failure to adequately deal with concerns those tankers will pose for the West Coast’s endangered orca population and coastline perils.

LNG is different from oil, goes the latest spin.   (Especially NDP LNG as opposed to Liberal LNG?  LOL!)

Let’s keep it real: in case of a major accident and massive release, yes, LNG could vaporize, not sink into the ocean waters. BUT those vapors are highly explosive and any accident in port or nearby could still be devastating.

Plus, although the cargo will not be oil … the millions of gallons of bunker fuel propelling all those LNG-laden tankers will be!!!!  What happens then … in a major port or coastal accident or disaster?

And what about all the concerns we’ve heard about propeller noise and all the increased traffic will have on the orcas and other marine life on the Pacific coast?

The LNG project will add 350 vessels a year … 50 more than Trans Mountain’s additional 300 vessels a year.

Are the whales supposed to know the difference … and adjust accordingly between nice tankers and bad tankers?

Don’t get me wrong.

I support the LNG project … including construction of the 670-km pipeline that will bring the product from northeastern BC to Kitimat:  as long as state of the art environmental standards and protections are included on land and at sea; as long as most of the jobs go to British Columbians, Canadians and First Nations; and, as long as a fair share of the riches/benefits also go to British Columbia, Canada and First Nations.

But I am no hypocrite.

I also support the Trans Mountain project, under the VERY SAME rules: as long as state of the art environmental standards and protections are included on land and at sea; as long as most of the jobs go to British Columbians, Canadians and First Nations; and, as long as a fair share of the riches/benefits also go to British Columbia, Canada and First Nations.

And so should Horgan and the NDP  … ending their hypocrisy.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: Follow me @harveyoberfeld on Twitter to get First Alerts of all new postings on this BC-based political blog.)

Tags: British Columbia · International · National

24 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Gene The Bean // Oct 15, 2018 at 8:36 am

    Harvey – you were a very vocal LNG supporter.

    You cant have it both ways….. unless you are becoming a politician…???

    (Response: Clearly you did not read the whole piece: I clearly stated I SUPPORT the LNG project, subject to certain strict conditions … unlike the hypocrites who opposed LNG, pipelines and coastal tankers when it was a Liberal project but love it when it’s an NDP project.
    I also SUPPORT the Trans Mountain project subject to the SAME strict conditions. See … I’m open, honest and consistent ..could never be a politician. h.o)

  • 2 SG // Oct 15, 2018 at 9:17 am

    Me thinks that Horgan did this to appease his union overlords in the private sector since he peed them off so badly by catering to various radical environmentalist groups, and the radical environmentalists in the public sector unions over the KM pipeline expansion project.

  • 3 Terry Murphy // Oct 15, 2018 at 10:44 am

    Well done. I agree completely.

  • 4 RIsaak // Oct 15, 2018 at 10:52 am

    Trudeau, his North coast tanker ban, endless talking points on the environment and clueless tact chosen on KMX (he could legislate the pipeline into reality according to last weeks SCOC ruling) are far more perplexing than Horgan’s actions. After all Horgan needs to be propped up by Dream Weaver while Trudeau has an outright majority. One cannot toss grenades at Horgan without tossing even more at Trudeau in all things fossil fuel and the optics there-of. Just keeping it real…

    (Response: Did I miss it? I don’t recall ever seeing Trudeau and the federal Liberals ever ridiculing LNG development proposals and/or oil exports. But I sure do recall seeing LOTS of comments from the NDP and their supporters deriding Clark’s LNG development proposals as unworthy of even consideration because of a world glut, low prices, tankers, yada, yada, yada. h.o)

  • 5 E. Johnson // Oct 15, 2018 at 10:55 am

    Like so many politicians, Horgan is an “environmentalist of convenience”. During his beaming, self congratulatory press conference I half expected he might thumb his nose at Rachel Notley with a “too bad, so sad for you”. Great article Harvey. Thanks for calling him out on his flagrant hypocrisy.

    (Response: One of the problems is the NDP …to fight off inroads of the Greens … had taken more extreme environmental positions, becoming the party of “No” to appease the activist community. Maybe now they are shifting back to the WORKERS who used to be able to count on the party… and have come to realize we can do both: create and support resource jobs, pipelines and exports … while also protecting the environment. Time to get on with oil exports too! h.o)

  • 6 Rhona W // Oct 15, 2018 at 11:49 am

    I GIVE UP. Politicians ALL stink.

    (Response: Well, we do need them … but I sure wish they could be more honest and consistent about their positions, beliefs and policies. How they can deliver their remarks sometimes without blushing still makes me wonder after 38 years working with them… especially when their turnabout occurs as soon as they move from Opposition to power …or vice versa! h.o)

  • 7 Gene The Bean // Oct 15, 2018 at 12:41 pm

    Rhona #6 – I think you maybe meant to say “Politicians all stink under FPTP.” Harvey, your point about moving from opposition to power is bang on too.

    What we are witnessing is just typical FPTP governmental process. Don’t like it? Well, then change it.

    Minority style governments can actually govern from a place resembling honesty and morality, something we are all (except the conservatives) screaming for.

    So much LNG infrastructure is currently offline or operating well below capacity around the world. I still don’t see the economics of this working until well into the future. It still smells to me.

  • 8 BMCQ // Oct 15, 2018 at 5:58 pm

    Of course Horgan is a Hipocrite, all one needs to do is recall what he said about LNG over the Years and then listen to him now or read your Blog Analysis above to discover that he has so little respect for his Base he feels he can Lie, totally Reverse His Policy and actually expect to get away with it without being challenged or accused of Lying or Hyprocrisy.

    Demand for Natural Gas declines beginning about 5 years ago and production increased, that abundance and less Demand of NG caused Prices to decrease. Over the past the Improving World Economies, China Growth and more conversion to NG the increase in demand for NG has improved and prices have begun to firm and in fact increase creating upward pressure on the price. Simple Supply and Demand, Guns N Butter.

    “How Are Whales supposed to Tell the difference etc.”, is one of the BEST Lines of the Week !!

    Horgan will Bold Face Lie, Most in Media will Roll Over and Yawn, then Enviro Hypocrite Weaver will “Huff and Puff” for an afternoon soon Ignoring another one of his “Lines in the Sand”, and Horgan will continue to Bask in the Sun and Temporary Self Ordained Conversion to “Sun er LNG King” !!

    Tell me, can Horgan get quickly re-fitted for the Christy Clark Hard Hat and LNG Production Orange Work Smock?

    And what about “Enviro Superman” and Cabinet Minister George Heyman on this File, where is He? Heyman seems rather quiet on this don’t you think? Hey I know, perhaps Heyman has been Over Come and made Speechless by an Overdose of LNG, perhaps that could be the problem.

    Having said that my Company consumes a large amount of Natural Gas every Month and considering the actuual fact of demand for Natural Gas I Booked Forward Natural Gas for 3 years a few months ago.

    Mensa Member and Canadian PM Justin should reverse his Policy on Tankers immediately, Canada and Canadians need to somehow get Revenues from Export of LNG and Crude soon or Deficits and Debt will cripple the Canadian Economy and Canadian Social Programs will be under threat and suffer. There is no time to waste.

    PM Justin should repair and keep the Burnaby KM PL in place and choose a new more practical Northern Route for Crude and NG to Kitimat and or PrincevRupert area to export BOTH Natural Resources.

    By choosing a Northern Route/Routes the BBY KM would remain the same except upgraded and there would be NO Increase in Tanker Traffic out of YVR and in turn there would be NO increase in potential problems.

    The new LNG and Crude Pipe Lines and Export Terminals in Northern B.C. would create significant Economic Stimulant and would in turn create one, two, or perhaps even more Centers of fairly large Cities with potential for another Container Ship Facility which would draw hundreds of thousands of people to live and work which would provide High Paying Jobs.

    In turn there would be a huge growth in Infrastructure of Retail and Industrial Business including Schools and a new additional Northern University to serve the Community.

    Not to mention of course the fact that for several generations Affordable Housing would be available as Land Values would be much less expensive than in the lower portion of B.C.

    Hipocrisy and all, if Horgan had any kind of Vision and was able to bring most of this into reality he could indeed become “LNG King” and he could be Premier for many years to come.

    Here is the question, Is Horgan actually capable of becoming “LNG And Crude Export King” or is he like some here that Never really read the full Blog Post Analysis and are “Bound by a Straight Jacket of Ideology and simply Full of Mercaptan”?

    (Response: I don’t think it’s really a question of “lying”: many politicians, in every democracy, in every country “change their minds” between the time they are in Opposition and then become government. Presto … changeo is the way they go. Horgan and the NDP opposed Site C, but then gave it the go ahead; their embrace of LNG and tanker exports are the latest; maybe “new information” … like political polls or First Nations coming on side (if the price is right?) will happen as well on oil pipelines! Wait for it. h.o.)

  • 9 BMCQ // Oct 15, 2018 at 6:09 pm

    My apologies, it is 2:00 AM here and I meant to include PM Justin in my LNG and Crude Export comments, PM Justin could also Govern for many years if he and Horgan managed to export LNG and Crude to World Markets.

    Let’s not forget that Canadian Crude exported to the U.S. currently gets about USD $ 40.o0 Discounted per Barrel while Exports to the rest of the World through Northern Gateway would fetch well over USD $ 80.00 which means many more Billions of Dollars for Canadian Social Programs, Education, Infrastructure and Pensions.

    We have NO TIME to Waste!

  • 10 13 // Oct 15, 2018 at 7:02 pm

    How will the whales tell the difference? LNG tankers will require their hulls be painted BC Liberal Blue. Oil dripping crud (ok crude) tankers will be painted NDP rusty orange and oil spill brown Now the quote of the day
    ” minority style governments can actually govern from a place resembling honesty and morality……”
    Count the times the work hypocrite is used to describe Horgan . Weaver is so sleazy that he leaves an oil slick behind when he spews yet another reason to turn the other cheek, look the other way, bury his head in the sand, sell his green soul to the Site C devil, look in the mirror and see himself as an eviro warrior beside a 40 billion dollar LNG terminal.

    Yessiree Gene this minority government exudes honesty and morality. tickpfttttock.

  • 11 Gene The Bean // Oct 16, 2018 at 8:29 am

    Harvey, you’re still producing very good thought provoking posts on relevant topics but the comments section is becoming a tough read.
    We have lost some very good regular posters because of that, I assume. That is to everyone’s detriment.

    I would like to hear their thoughts and opinions and hopefully they can provide some feedback (and hopefully return to commenting).

    Maybe just a ‘changing of the guard’…. I don’t know but like I’ve said before, I’ve got nothing but time and I am struggling to find the time to engage myself with the comment section.

    Trust me 🙂 – it’s not you, it’s us.

    (Response: The reality with Comments (whether on this blog, other blogs, newspapers and even talk shows) is that it’s quite often the same people who take the time to comment. And you can even see them on several sites, several stations (when talk radio was the rage) etc. I wish MORE people would participate in the discussions …because sometimes we get some very good ideas and information offered up … but MOST like to read …not lead in this regard. But don’t fret too much: I seldom check the blog stats, because it’s just a hobby for me: however I am still amazed and flattered to learn that, although I only did four pieces in September (once a week) the blog still drew almost 60,000 visits!! That’s a lot of folks reading what we say here …and who knows how many others read topics or excerpts passed on to them elsewhere. I know many of those who do follow this blog are involved in government, media and politics etc. … so contributing is well worth it …and I’m sure does help influence those who make policy. h.o.)

  • 12 Gene The Bean // Oct 16, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    WOW.
    60,000 visits is amazing. I guess I shouldn’t be shocked but that is a big number.

    I truly hope that not only your topics and commentary get the ears of ‘those who need to hear it’ but possibly some of the comments too.

    Although, being working people, I cant see how they can take the time to read through some of them.

    (Response: Just hope people don’t start clicking in for the Comments only …and not my own rants! 🙂 h.o)

  • 13 G. Barry Stewart // Oct 16, 2018 at 12:35 pm

    ‘Not sure if Gene was speaking of me as a ‘lost’ regular poster. I have been lurking through the past few months but I’ve been too busy or otherwise unmotivated to respond.

    If I’ve got no skin in a particular topic, or no base of facts, I prefer not to simply post hot air. Other times, my points have already been made, so why pile on?

    This one has brought me out of hiding, though.

    First, a few points about whales and the ships. One: when Christy was pumping the program, I believe the ships were going to use the LNG as their power source, so no bunker fuel would be needed. We’d be supplying citizen-subsidized fuel for the foreign industrialists — and for the ships that deliver it. Sweet deal, for them.

    Two: there is a movement among BC Ferries and others to make future hulls and props of ships far quieter, to cut the interference with whale signals. The LNG ships would or could be new-build — and stricter noise standards could be required. Whales, then, could easily tell a bad ship from a good one.

    All this is moot, as far as I’m concerned, since the project is still as pie-in-the-sky as it was in the BC Liberal days (minus the ridiculous $100 billion “Prosperity Fund.”)

    I’m glad I’m not tied to the NDP’s gag order, as I cannot support this or their Site C decision.

    In thumbing down both projects, I come from the economic angle, rather than an environmental one. Enviros and capitalists can agree on balance sheets, surely — and the case for LNG making us rich has not been made.

    Yes, people will be employed — but at what cost? We’ll be paying more for our power because of Site C, yet the so-far unneeded electricty is destined for the gas fields or the LNG plant.

    I also wonder what exporting our gas resources will do to our domestic prices: decrease, increase, or stay the same? I can’t think of why two of those answers would apply.

    As far as its effect on our provincial coffers, I agree there will be income tax revenue from the new employees — but it won’t be free money.

    A number of regular commenters, perhaps as many as 13, are against government bureaucracy and its drain on our taxes. Well: how do they feel when we, the people, subsidize private industry?

    As Harvey quotes The Sun: “Horgan’s government promised LNG Canada in March approximately $5.3 billion in tax breaks, including exempting the project from planned increases to the carbon tax and exempting construction from the provincial sales tax.”

    So, the corporations won’t be paying taxes, just the workers.

    Further: accountant/blogger, Norm Farrell has been writing about gas field revenues for years. Gas drillers used to return $billions to provincial coffers, from land leases and royalties on gas sales.

    Even in Gordon Campbell’s day, gas production gave back as much as $4 billion annually. Now, thanks to “royalty credits,” despite pumping more gas than ever, we are getting less than nothing for our resource. As an aside, gas producers are also harvesting “gas liquids” used in thinning bitumen… and BC residents are also giving it away. https://in-sights.ca/2018/08/08/bc-subsidies-to-gas-producers-8-6-billion-2007-2017/

    So, we have an industry already not paying us dividends, other than employment (at a cost to BC of $185,000 per employee, says Farrell https://in-sights.ca/2018/09/12/paying-185000-for-each-job/).

    How are we to reap a benefit from all of this, given current negative net incomes and further promised giveaways? I say leave most of the gas in the ground for future generations of BC residents and North American customers. Of course, I’ve already lost… but at least I’ve recorded my displeasure.

    (Response: Despite all the giveaways …or “incentives” LOL! … BC will benefit greatly from the LNG project: that’s why I have always supported it, regardless of which party put it forward. This is from Business in Vancouver:
    “Site preparation work on a $14 billion LNG plant in Kitimat is already underway. Construction of the associated $6.2 billion, 670-kilometre Coastal GasLink natural gas pipeline is slated to begin in early 2019.
    The joint venture is aiming for the new plant to be in production by 2025, when global demand for LNG is expected to be on the rise.
    Between now and then, LNG Canada will spend $23 billion in B.C., and an estimated 10,000 workers will be employed on the plant and pipeline, which will bring natural gas from the Dawson Creek area to Kitimat.
    Some of those workers will come from First Nations, which have played a critical role in supporting the project. All First Nations along the pipeline corridor have signed agreements estimated to be worth $1 billion in benefits, including jobs and contracts.”

    Great! You can read the entire BIV article here: https://biv.com/article/2018/10/lng-decision-hailed-epic-investment-bc-economy.

    And just think of the potential jobs/benefits/taxes/royalties we could also get out of the Enbridge/TransMountain pipelines, plants and exports! Enough to provide better health care, more housing for the homeless, First Nations living improvements, better transportation infrastructures, … maybe even another crumb or two for those of us seniors. h.o.)

  • 14 DBW // Oct 16, 2018 at 12:45 pm

    re GTB@11

    I don’t expect anybody to notice but I have been completely silent on every blog post except Pro Rep (which I actually care about) for about a year now.

    This post is a perfect example of why.

    We can criticize the NDP if we want. But let’s keep it real.

    This is the NDP statement on LGN from the party platform before the last election.

    Projects must offer jobs and training for British Columbians, especially jobs for local people.

    The people of BC must get a fair return for our resources.

    Projects must secure full partnerships with local First Nations.

    Projects must complete a made-in-BC environmental assessment and respect our commitments to combating climate change.

    Harvey, how exactly is that different from your qualifications for support of LNG:

    I support the LNG project … as long as state of the art environmental standards and protections are included on land and at sea; as long as most of the jobs go to British Columbians, Canadians and First Nations; and, as long as a fair share of the riches/benefits also go to British Columbia, Canada and First Nations.

    Rather than slamming Horgan over some perceived inconsistency (look at the comments so far) why don’t we look at the actual deal and determine whether it is worthwhile on its own merits.

    That is a far better debate.

    (Response: It’s all in the eye of the beholder: I’d bet the Liberals would argue THEIR plan too met those pre-requisites just as much as the NDP proposal… and more. I did not denounce or deride the Liberal’s LNG goals the way so many on the left did (although I did find it inflated) and I do not denounce and deride the NDP’s announced project: I just find it amusing and a bit ironic that so many … elected and non-elected … who saw NO HOPE of Christy Clark’s LNG “pipedream” being economically or environmentally viable suddenly are rejoicing over the NDP’s deal … complete with another estimated 350 tankers moving along the coast. And I still want to know where have all the previous handwringing/tears/concerns about the whales gone? So quiet now! h.o.)

  • 15 Hawgwash // Oct 16, 2018 at 8:10 pm

    Not to take away from your popularity because even half that number (60,000) is impressive.

    However, to keep it real, 60,000 visits does not translate to 60,000 individuals, does it?

    I check in 4 maybe 6 times a day, depending on topic. Most times it is just to check the reply count and if it has not changed, I move on.

    Based on how quickly some respond to the latest comment, I would think there are those who are checking hourly.

    Bean and the Q probably make up a third.

    Each.

    With 45 people in the City of Vancouver communications department, probably 4 times that provincially and ten times federally, big brother is watching you Harvey.

    (Response: I don’t know how they calculate it… whether repeat checkins from the same IP are counted once or over again. I’m just amazed …especially if people tune in several times a day! Must mean they enjoy the Comments …and especially my brilliant responses! 🙂 h.o)

  • 16 BMCQ // Oct 17, 2018 at 12:34 am

    I will tie back into topic but would like to comment on comments that were allowed to stand.

    I just got off a Plane and have been in several cities in 5 EU Nations since Oct. 5, I am at work each day before 5 AM, working people of any Income can find time to Post it is a matter of effort. Then there are some that only post once in a while due to various reasons but I also know there are many that read this Blog that are not Canadians that are Friends and Business Associates that live in Australia, U.S., Greece, France, UK, Germany, and I visited them all except for Australia over the past two weeks. They came here because of my relationship with them, they know YVR and they find this Blog of interest while at the same time informative, insightful, and entertaining. I am always encouraging them to Post but those that are more or less Conservative do not want to be labeled Racist, Morally Bankrupt, Trumpian, or any of the other Labels used here.

    I agree we need more from NoNeck, DBW, NonCon, G. Barry, Island Lookout, Old Islander, Lew who I miss a lot and several others, perhaps they will see this and re appear.

    My opinion will not matter much on this but I must say that GTB has put forwarded some excellent Posts of late and I have even agreed with some of what he points out, imagine that. For me it is just nice not being called names, thanks Bean! I am Aghast! And Appreciative.

    This Forum gives us all opportunity to Argue, Discuss, Debate, and put forward and exchange Ideas and Opinions to learn and evolve on certain issues and to me that is very important. I do not know about others here but that is how I learn and hopefully become a better person.

    Barry – 13

    Interesting Post.

    We must also keep in mind that Mensa Member Enviro and Social Justice Warriors tell us every week we/the World will be operating ALL Technologies on Dilithium Crystals within a few Years and WE will NOT require Fossil Fuels (yeah sure), well if that is the case why would we be required to Bank Coal, Crude, Natural Gas, and the Rest by leaving them in the Ground?

    Let us take advantage of the available Revenue of Exports to maintain Canadian Social Programs, Education, Pensions, and the rest.

    Keep in mind that Former Drama Teacher, Indian Prince and Selfie King PM Justin is Building Huge Deficits and Debt that must somehow be paid for. Why not use up those Fossil Fuels rather than allowing them to go to Seed in only a few years? Think about it.

    Oh and BTW, the Genius’s That tell you that also believe that Horgan, Meggs, Eby, Weaver, and their Minions are not Hypocrites!

    Please keep in mind that when Mumbles Gregor Robertson first became Mayor of Vancouver there was only 2 Communications People Employees at City Hall. That is only the start, I would love to know just how much the City of Vancouver Number of Employees, Salary, Benefit, and Pensions have increased over the past 7 Sickening Years. 13 and BMCQ have complained about Government Blost and Waste for a long time and now it is almost too late.

    Frankly I want Horgan and His Group of All Stars to succeed with LNG and I believe they should Push for a Northern Gateway Pipeline from Alta to Prince Rupert or Kitimat as it would reduce Tanker Traffic in Busier Lower B.C. Passages, it would benefit B.C. And Alta, and Indeed Canada In many many ways, let’s get to it!

    I think Horgan would Benefit Himself and His Minions Greatly if he adopted what I have just suggested along with LNG and just tell the “Great Unwashed” the following.

    “We have had a Second Look at these Projects and we feel that if Reasonable Realistic Environmental Standards can be achieved we will proceed with the Projects That will benefit all of the People of B.C. Alberta and Canada”.

    A tone like that at least tells people you have simply after much thought, research, and Soul Searching concluded that it NOW makes sense.

    BTW

    It is only the past two weeks that Bean has Posted more frequently than before.

  • 17 13 // Oct 17, 2018 at 6:10 am

    Those that decide to boycott Keeping it Real do so at their own risk. The old saying goes ” be there or be talked about”.
    Posters that I can remember Evil Eye, Larry Bennet. Poster that were asked to leave Gumby Splash Dancer. Im sure Ive missed many names.
    The only list I wont mention are the posters that feel they have the right to tell HO and the rest of us whom should be allowed or not allowed to post. Those that want to tell me who they will no longer read. Who cares who you wont read? Those that try to tell HO who should be banned. Again who cares?
    Im happy and proud to be part of a 60,000 member group.

    (Response: Appreciate the support…but think we’re getting off topic now. h.o)

  • 18 Gene The Bean // Oct 17, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Hawg – I check in 2-3 times a day when I am home which is less than you. Thanks for the shout out though!

    I guess people have just become lurkers instead of active participants – to each his own.

    Harvey is still bang on with his commentary, whether I agree with it or not, it is still what does (and should) drive Keeping it Real.

    Hey, here is an idea, maybe I could spice the comments up with my exploits and achievements, my travels and adventures, you know, like a braggarts daily diary….. how could folks not want to hear all about me ??? Right?

  • 19 BMCQ // Oct 18, 2018 at 4:28 am

    Barry – 13

    Anyone and Everyone should be against unwarranted Government Growth, Bloat, Spending, Inefficiencies, and Waste of any kind, as we all know Government Workers at ANY Level are more than very well Salaried, Benefitted, and Pensioned.

    Control of all of those is particularly important in Canada and B.C. as Hard Working, Tax Paying ?Canadians of ALL Income Levels suffer with some of the Highest Cost of Real Estate, Mortgages, Rents, Taxation including Property Tax Which IS Very Much Included in Rents of all kinds and other Costs of Living any in the World.

    Government should be very respectful of the Canadians it Serves and it is the Job of Media to point that out each and every day.

    I do not think people are against Government Investment or Subsidizies provided they make sense and provide for the Canadian People.

    Impact of Tax Breaks Can be beneficial and yes warranted but good judgement and good business practices must be followed. Of course opinions will differ on which industry should and will benefit but that is how we partially Grade Governments and what assists us in deciding who to vote for during Elections.

    A quick example where subsidies appear to work and benefit all of B.C. Workers and Citizens would be the Film Industry almost all of us know someone earning good income or a business benefitting from that Industry which is attracted here by Subsidies/Tax Breaks.

    Does the Film Industry get too much in the way of Subsidies? We all have opinions but one thing for sure it appears to be working.

    Whether it be a Horgan/Weaver Government or a Christy or Wilkinson Government Subsidies can work, make sense, and should be employed to increase Government Revenues, Infrastructure, and Social Programs.

    We can argue about what Horgan or Christy “ Gave Up” in Subsidies and Media, Politicians in Question Period, and the Public in General should discuss just that but it is basically a Judgement call of an Elected Government.

    I believe Horgan is doing the “Right Thing” on the LNG File, we can quibble about the numbers but…….

    WAC Bennett is perhaps the best example of a Visionary that employed the use of Government Investment in/of Subsidies, Tax Breaks, for Infrastructure in our Province.

    You talk about Government Resources used to Subsidize Private Industry.

    I believe the Purchase of the KM Pipeline by the Posing, Prancing, and uh Preening Peacock of a PM Justin will go down as One of the Biggest Mistakes and Investment of ANY Canadian Government and a Fawning Media will basically Ignore it!

    That GARGANTUAN MISTAKE will Harm Canada and Canadians for Generations to come and it sickens me.

    PM Justin made a Huge Mistske, My Mother taught me not to Swim with Sharks, PM Justi jumped into the Deep End with Hardened Experienced KM Negotiators and the took him and the Canadian People to the Cleaners.

    Again Horgan needs to come clean on this, explain to the Province that the Government simply sees they need to Evolve on Pipelines and LNG as long as High Standards of Safety and Environment are ensured.

    Then he must discuss the necessity of shipping LNG and a New Northern Gateway KM Crude Pipeline from Alberta to Prince Rupert or Kitimat with PM Justin and Alberta.

    Then finally Alberta should begin Discussion with Private Industry on Partnership in a New State of the Art Oil Refinery Which can produce Alberta/Canadian Gasoline and other Fuels benefiting Canadians for Generatiins.

    Contrary to what many say Crude, LNG, Gasoline, Fossil Fuel, and even Consumer Products created with Plastics etc. Products will be part of the Future od Canada for Generations to come.

    Let us take advantage of what we have while we have it.

    Seeing as we are All Still Here.

    For all of You Anti Oil Enviro Hypocrites.

    Any of you Chew Gum? Ever wonder if Your Chewing Gum is still Produced with Chickle?

    Guess what, it Is Not.

    I am Aghast!

    Hell, we could be Going to Hell in a Hand Cart!

  • 20 DBW // Oct 18, 2018 at 7:51 am

    Thanks G. Barry Stewart for you post. And thanks Harvey for the response to Barry. That is the discussion that is worthwhile.

    As much as some people want to nail Horgan to the wall (and fair enough if you want to) the NDP policy was

    economic benefit to First Nations communities most jobs to British Columbians
    economic benefit to the provincial coffers
    and environmentally sound

    That is what we should be discussing.

    I am not surprised that the NDP have pursued LNG. My surprise frankly is that they actually pulled it off. Who the hell thought an NDP government would be signatory to the largest private sector investment in Canadian history.

    Now we can criticize Horgan for some things. Did he give away too much? Will we manage to meet our climate change targets? For me fracking rather than pipelines and cargo ships is the big concern.

    We can even burst his bubble by reminding him that most of the groundwork was done by the BC Liberals although I imagine the Liberals will be doing that themselves. And we can also remind him how much easier it is to criticize while in opposition (although Petronas was never the best option anyway) and how much harder it is to govern.

    But the deal is there. Criticize it like Barry (an NDP supporter) did. That’s fair game.

    I just don’t understand the rant on Horgan by certain people on here when he has done pretty much exactly what they would have wanted to see happen.

  • 21 BMCQ // Oct 18, 2018 at 10:52 am

    DBW – 20

    Not everyone wants Horgan to fail.

    It would be nice however to hear him admit that they have decided to “Change Course” and why.

    I am quite sure there are many NDP/Horgan/Weaver Supporters that are upset with the NDP Decision and they too would want an explanation.

    I do not think it is too much for anyone to ask for an explanation, whether they be NDP, Green, B.C. Liberals, or Whales.

    Now there is a New Question.

    Will Horgan have the Courage to Debate PR in an Open Forum?

  • 22 G. Barry Stewart // Oct 18, 2018 at 8:59 pm

    BMCQ at 19,

    That wasn’t your friend Justin, swimming nude with the sharks, was it? LOL!https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/10/18/man-accused-of-swimming-with-sharks-makes-brief-court-appearance.html

    There is public subsidy, through government infrastructure, programs and staffing — and corporate subsidy, through tax breaks, credits and supplied infrastructure.

    Depending on the political stripe one wears, one subsidy is seen as less worthy than the other. I have no problem with a business coming in, doing their due diligence and testing the waters at their own risk and expense.

    If government is going to take away that risk and expense, though, I want to know that the public is going to benefit from the partnership — all things considered.

    Some might be surprised to hear that I am totally fine with Nestle pumping water out of an abundant aquifer at Hope and paying next to nothing for the water they bottle.

    They paid for the bottling plant and they pay plenty in taxes and wages — and the clean spring water is perhaps 10 minutes from becoming lake water… then Fraser River water. By catching early, it requires far less treatment.

    The big difference between our water and gas resources is that the water keeps coming back and has little commercial value until it’s bottled and put in a fridge (where it magically/criminally moves from about 14¢ to $1.50. That’s on retailers, not Nestlé.)

    Our natural gas is a finite resource, with plenty of value to BC home and commercial customers. I fear that by giving it away to foreign entities, we’ll be leaving ourselves with a scarce supply and spiking prices, as has been seen in Australia. (That wouldn’t be good for your metallurgical business, surely.)

    Christy spoke “aspirationally” of a $100 billion Prosperity Fund, from LNG excesses. I haven’t heard that level of deceit from Horgan but I’d like to see his vision of how this is going to roll out.

    We have heard that we’ll have to be electrifying our transportation, to counteract the CO2 hit from LNG activities. I don’t mind paying for an e-car when my current fuel-burner is done — but is our LNG ‘profit’ going to pay for the infrastructure required to get us off gasoline? If so, I want to hear about that.

    I simply don’t want us to be left carrying the can.

  • 23 Hawgwash // Oct 19, 2018 at 8:56 am

    Bean…my shout was very tongue in cheekish, but today people often no long see, hear, feel, understand or appreciate any humour. Just try quick wit in an elevator full of strangers. Reactions are funnier than the wit itself.

    Anyway, I do believe the numbers, because thousands of them are people around the globe that come here just because of me.

  • 24 BMCQ // Oct 19, 2018 at 10:45 am

    Barry – 22

    A really good Post!

    I agree with much of what you say and I believe all Canadians should support various Government Assists providing it is not simply a Waste of Money and yes we all have our own definitions of what is good and not so good.

    I am very happy about your atitude regarding Nestle, perhaps a better deal could have been arranged but how nice is it to have the jobs out there? I know NAFTA complicated that deal somewhat as well and we as yet do not know much about the Water under the new Deal.

    Personally I would like to see a similar Water Deal done to ship other B.C. Water intercepted just before it runs off into the Ocean and Export it to the U.S. for Profit. Again, can that be done and can it work so we are not Contractually oblgated to continue Export of Water if we for some reason have a Drought. That will never take place but………..

    Imagine how much Income we could generate with the Export of Water that was going to runinto the Ocean.

    Hey, what about a Water Pipeline? Think of it.

    Again the new USMCA Fine Print would dictate what we could do.

    Perhaps Premier Horgan and PM Justin could put you in charge of the Water Export File.

    Some of what I said is/was Tongue in Cheek but Pie in the Sky Enviro Zealots tell us Fossil Fuels will soon be no longer required do they not?

    So why not Export LNG and Oil etc. for Profit to Finance Government Bloat, Waste, Social Programs, Pensions, and Infrastructure?

    My Company has Bought Forward NG for 3 years, the price will rise contrary to what you are being told.

    I was just in France Tuesday and I believe they produce about 70% of their Electricity by Nuke Power. Canada has one of the Bestr Nuke Energy Capabilities of any Country in the World.

    Just do not build it in an Earthquake or Volcano Zone on the Ocean as the Japanese did. The Canadian Prairies might be an ideal spot to consider. We need to be more creative.

    Electric Cars are Great for B.C. but Enviro’s should tell you that in the rest of North America other than Quebec much of the Electricity is Generate3d by Burning Coal. We might then conclude that Electric Vehicles are not quite as Enviro as one might believe.

    I was just in 7 EU and Middle Eastern Nations and NOT ONE of THEM haved any kind of control of Carbon Foot Prints. the Carbon Footprint of the whole Nation of Canada is MERELY a Rounding Figure compared to almost any other Nation.

    I suppose that then leaves us with the following question amongst a few others.

    Can we believe the Enviro Genius’s when they tell us Fossil Fuels will not be required for very long into the future?

    I ask you the same question as Clint Eastwood once asked a guy.

    “Do You Feel Lucky Punk? Well Do Ya”?

    Your guess is as good as theirs, I never ever believe Environemntal Hypocrites like Suzuki, Gore, Neil Young, Di Caprio, Prince Charles, or the others.

    I do however believe Christy was on the right track and I believe there is Employment, Profit, Royalties, Tax, and plenty of other Income to go around if we can avoid the Pit Falls of Bloated Bureaucracy, Pandering to First Nations, and the rest.

    Horgan can do this and he in fact needs to do it, the Good People of B.C. and Canada deserve better than what they have been getting.

    Again, Horgan is doing the right thing you now just need to nudge him to Partner with Alberta and Ottawa to develope and build a Northern Gateway Pipeline to Prince George or Kitimat.

    I am forecasting that sometime in the next eighteen months there will be huge earth shattering news on Man Caused Climate Change and CO2 and a lot of Enviro Hypocrites will be looking for New Employment and a New Cause.

    You heard it here first.