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Kinder Morgan SHOULD Proceed

May 28th, 2018 · 49 Comments

I’m not a great fan of the Kinder Morgan pipeline project.

I believe it was an historic mistake to have allowed the original pipeline terminal at the end of Burrard Inlet: somewhere around Roberts Bank might have been better.

And frankly, I still wish it would be moved.

But Kinder Morgan is where it is: it’s legal; it has gone through every legal and regulatory process and received approvals for its expansion plans. And the environmental requirements the project must meet are the most significant and toughest ever imposed.

It should go ahead.

The danger to Canada’s Constitutional fabric …. if BC’s obstructionist refusal to accept the almost endless regulatory processes already carried out or acknowledge the responsibilities of the federalist nature of our nation … is greater than any possible damage from an oil spill.

B.C. went to the province’s highest court seeking the authority to restrict bitumen shipments that cross its borders ? a measure that would allow it to kill the Trans Mountain project.

Premier John Horgan, the NDP/Green government are allowing a MINORITY of UN-ELECTED anti-development activists to harm much more than just Kinder Morgan, but BC’s and Canada’s resource development and economic growth.

The truth is more British Columbian’s FAVOUR the project than oppose it: a recent Ipsos poll showed 55% support for project, and 37% opposed … and of that, only 17% opposed it strongly.

And Alberta’s own NDP government ….how ironic is that …. if literally cut off from exporting ITS resources by BC will also no doubt wreak terrible harm and damage on BC’s imports of natural gas and oil supplies.

And worse.

Imagine what the reaction will be in BC if Alberta also retaliates (and why shouldn’t they???) by restricting or stopping imports of BC wine, BC fruits, BC produce etc. …. not to mention the potential damage to our tourism industry, should a boycott be organized.

How ironic that yet another NDP government could end up be tarred in the next election as bringing job losses to the BC economy by catering to blind ideology and the minority “no, no, no” crowd and forgetting the average working class families/jobs/economy!

There is also a certain hypocrisy in Horgan and the BC/Green government saying the EXPORT pipeline must be stopped to protect the environment … but pipelines carrying oil and gas products FOR BC USE through the same terrain in the very same way is quite okay.

That’s no way to run a country.

Hopefully Kinder Morgan and the federal government …and the Supreme Court if necessary … will make Horgan and his NDP/Green government understand that …

And start serving the interests of MOST British Columbians and not just the “no” crowd.

Harv Oberfeld

Tags: British Columbia · National

49 responses so far ↓

  • 1 John's Aghast // May 28, 2018 at 10:59 am

    Sorry Harvey, you’re out to lunch on this one. I think most of those in favour of this ill conceived scheme believe that its the same old same old – just an increase in QUANTITY. Its not! Diluted bitumen is a horse of a different colour. Impossible to clean up.
    And there is no market for the product. The project is not economically viable. That should be Kinder Morgan’s problem, but unfortunately for us they have, like all great corporations, foisted the costs on the taxpayer whilst keeping the profits (if there are to be any) for the shareholders.
    Its unfortunate that its developed to this stage but IMO its a dead horse you’re flogging!

  • 2 JOhn // May 28, 2018 at 12:30 pm

    If BC wants to restrict bitumin crossing it’s borders, I see no reason why Alberta should not enforce Bill12 that enalbes AB to stop shipments of jet fuel, gaosline and diesel through KM line. You folks would last about two days before the pumps run dry.
    You are right: grow up BC govt. and run the province properly.

  • 3 e.a.f. // May 28, 2018 at 12:42 pm

    Its not the pipeline which bothers me. Its the tankers in our harbour. there will be accidents and spills and for what. It isn’t like we in B.C. will ever experience lower gas prices. No its so a bunch of foreigners can make more money and those Kinder Morgan people do not have a good track record.

    We have only to look to the City of Vancouver trying to collect the $500K the last little spill in English bay.

    (Response: Me too. As I said I wish the whole operation had been located elsewhere … but it’s there; it’s legal; if they have passed/received ALL the permits … and hopefully the controls/regulations when it comes to the environment are state of the art …then they should have the right to proceed. Period! h.o)

  • 4 Doug // May 28, 2018 at 12:55 pm

    Horgan is only holding this up because if he doesn’t the greens will leave the coalition and he will no longer be Premiere. A classic case of putting himself ahead of what’s right.

  • 5 Gene The Bean // May 28, 2018 at 1:42 pm

    This is a toughie. Agree that the original pipeline was misplaced. I think it should have been built out around the Squamish area.

    Back to the point, in building the original pipeline, most of the environmental damage has already been done. Trees are cut, streams are ruined, roads built etc etc so by twinning it we would be limiting further damage as opposed to a new pipeline. If you have to ship oil, pipelines are the best vehicle.

    From what I have read on the Tar Sands I just don’t see how this oil is even viable. The amount of fresh water and natural gas that is needed to remove the oil from the sand is crazy. Then having to ship it thousands of Km to be refined…?? Don’t get it.

    On that basis I smell a rat. I wonder how much of our money the Conservatives gave these private corporations and how much “tax” they actually pay. I’m pretty sure the first answer is ‘lots’ and the second answer is ‘nothing’.

    National Geographic did a story thirty odd years ago (I have been a subscriber since 1976) about the Tar Sands and I believe they came to the same conclusion, it is just too expensive and the environmental degradation will be too great until that is essentially the last remaining oil on the planet.

    I am OK either way – build it or dont build it. I can see and I can appreciate both sides of the discussion. Both have merit.

    As for your comments about Albertan retaliation, I am OK with that too. My area is invaded by the giant meathead pick-ups every summer. We call them Okanagan Herpes. You hate it when they are here, you love it when they are gone, but you know they’ll come back….. Would suit me just fine if they didnt come here, the only people that would complain would be the people that sell booze, cigarettes and houses.

    I was asked when i was out of the country last winter why other Canadians dont like Alberta. I said we love Alberta, we just dislike most Albertans.

    Anyways, looking forward to hear what most here have to say once we weed through the me-me-me parts and the self congratulating parts.

    PS: Alberta and the Feds made a big mistake in saying they would essentially ‘step in’ to make sure ‘Murican owned Kinder Morgan would be made financially viable re this project. Big, big mistake….. the Corporatists will use that against us in the future.

  • 6 SB // May 28, 2018 at 3:09 pm

    I am in support of oil industry but living on the coast I do want to see the most aggressive and timely response for any emergency or spill and at this point in time based on the slow poor response to spills in different locations including Vancouver harbour do think they have not been good enough .
    I also would like to see us shipping oil products that are more refined as it’s easier to cleanup if spills occur and provides more jobs to Canadians .
    It will be a steady slow switch to other energy sources technology is developing so fast and becoming viable and affordable .
    Oil will still be needed but it also can be made cleaner to produce as technology in that industry also improves.
    BC should demand best practices possible laws that will not leave the companies free from costs of leaks or spills and the Alberta government could agree and begin working on making those things happen if so a lot of opposition disappears.
    They have been shipping for decades safely it’s the huge increase in volume that needs assurances all safety aspects have been updated
    Truth is all levels of government and industry have not met or accepted responsibilities well enough to gain public trust.

  • 7 Chuckstraight // May 28, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    I`m for refining/value added at source. Our raw logs have been increasingly exported with bark on. And how does one clean up Bitumen in the Ocean if it does spell?

  • 8 SG // May 28, 2018 at 6:23 pm

    I wonder if any of the protesters realize that Alberta bitumen is hauled by rail to the St Lawrence, then loaded on oil tankers for an ocean voyage to refineries in Louisiana.

  • 9 Harry lawson // May 28, 2018 at 6:50 pm

    Well Harvey

    Glad you are happy to stir the pot,

    With all the political posturing from all sides including the brilliant blackmail by kinder Morgan I say all of their behaviour has been shameful.

    I truly believe the BC NDP will be back in opposition sooner then later. Interprovincial relations will take years if not decades shame on them all

  • 10 e.a.f. // May 28, 2018 at 8:04 pm

    Harvey, here is my cheap shot for this post. Yes, its all legal, etc. but then so was slavery and beating your wife and children. times change…..

    (I just couldn’t resist) my apologies..

  • 11 Bruce W. // May 28, 2018 at 8:11 pm

    Well, Harvey, you sure stirred the pot with this one. I agree that given all the studies/permits/etc. etc. have been done and approved, it should go ahead. What I would like to see is the product refined in BC before being sent to wherever.

    That being said, since it would take years for that to come into fruition it’s about time Horgan and co. started doing what’s right for the COUNTRY.

    That’s the problem with small minds tackling big problems, they lose sight of the big picture. Horgan and his bunch of naysayers should maybe try being a little pro-active and work WITH the authorities and developers, instead of always against them. Would make them look smarter in the eyes of the MAJORITY that would prefer to see this go ahead.

  • 12 13 // May 28, 2018 at 9:23 pm

    eaf your second comment makes no sense not even on a sarcastic measure. Perhaps in some utopian future where oil has been banned for eons and dillithium crystals are the norm.

    Harvey, I agree with you entire post . My only fear is that when the inevitable spill occurs the “world class” (almost an oxymoron)spill response will be second class at best. Having said that the amount of tanker traffic off our coast is already considerable. If they apply the new standards that the kinder morgan bound tankers are bound to follow to all other tankers in our coastal waters then I support the pipeline. If the stringent new rules apply only to the new increased traffic then its a useless ruse.
    The worst part of this whole scenario is we have two buffoons. I wish both could lose their fight.
    Horgan or Trudeau one will be victorious. Sad

  • 13 RIsaak // May 29, 2018 at 7:54 am

    I disagree on a few points.

    Energy East, national energy self sufficiency and ending imports from conflict nations and primarily the US would have been far more in the true interests of the nation, but political forces within the Liberal govt. squashed that concept mostly for political reasons.

    Northern Gateway, had the utilized Port Edward as a terminus (deepest draft port on the west coast of the entire continent) with a much easier access to open water would have been superior to KM/TM, but hey that one was a Harper idea so it needed to be squashed.

    Ask yourself what would the Trudeau of opposition have said if Harper had bought one of the pipelines to force it through? An honest answer more than likely would be, Trudeau goes nuts over heavy handed governance and would attempt to create all the political currency possible from it.

    Can we expect the Govt. to also buy out all the shipping companies, we know the shipping community fails to adequately underwrite their operations against possible liabilities, so if we are in fact underwriting their operations, it should make sense to also own the operation we have to accept most of the liabilities for?

    If an incident occurs, this entire mess should be born by the Trudeau Liberals, the fact the other 2 options were far superior in terms of economics is lost on the majority of folks, but hey, in Canada the third best choice seems to be the best we can get, mostly due to political narcissism.

  • 14 Hawgwash // May 29, 2018 at 8:49 am

    What is it about Canadians that we love to be victims of foreign bullies and dupemeisters, be they Chinese, Texans or anyone else with an even minor understanding of flim-flam?

    The 4.5B “purchase of assets” is nothing more than a conspired bailout and the modern day equialent of the Expo lands.

  • 15 John's Aghast // May 29, 2018 at 9:23 am

    SG, Is that a fact? It seems to be a phenomenal expense for a very low value resource. Mixed with dilutant, pumped into rail cars, rail transport, transfer to ships, marine transport, discharge, removal and salvage of dilutant and only then refined. Why not pelletize it, or refine it at source?
    Bruce W. I believe Horgan, and his predecessors have bent over backward (or forward!) to accommodate the authorities and developers and that has been the problem. If the fossil fuel industry had financed their own development without the benevolence of the taxpayer we would be well on our way to a renewable energy society.

  • 16 Gene The Bean // May 29, 2018 at 10:56 am

    #15 – ” If the fossil fuel industry had financed their own development without the benevolence of the taxpayer we would be well on our way to a renewable energy society.”

    Mic drop. Great comment.

    Politics were forever changed at the beginning of the twentieth century by money from big oil. Many if not all of the problems we now see with “buying a government” started with this industry.

    I have said it here before, nano-technology in the solar sector will make fossil fuels obsolete for things like vehicle fuels and electricity production.

    Possibly in our lifetimes we will see the day when all roofing materials and windows use solar to power 90% of the buildings needs.

    Tick Tock. Change is coming. Right wing governments (speaking about things going the way of the dinosaur) and the Corporatists cant stop it this time.

    Even the Arabs see what is coming. They have the most to lose and are proactively leading the way. Dubai will be generating most of its electricity from solar soon. Amazing. Meanwhile in North America, the knuckles still drag and the spittle still drips.

    Sad. Bigly sad.

  • 17 BMCQ // May 29, 2018 at 11:11 am

    I will address your Post as written before the purchase of the KM Pipeline by the Feds.

    I agree with your Essay as Posted, it is simple common sense, it is practical, and it in fact accomplishes a lot.

    By finishing KM it allows our/Alberta Crude to get to World Markets at an improved price, it creates much employment, it means an increase of Royalties and other Taxes and bottom it throws a Life Preserver to Alberta, it’s Infrastructure, and it’s People in a time of need.

    This Infrastructure Project is very important to Alberta no matter who is Premier and Canadians need to support other Provinces and Canadians for the good of the Country.

    There are certainly NO Guarantees but we need to pull together and ensure that Governments ensure that all safety precautions are in place and the so called World Class Response really is just that.

    On a slightly different not I wonder just how much Tax Payers Dollars Premier Horgan and his Minions are wasting on the Court Challenges?

    Fact is this is a fight he cannot and will not win and he knows it but he is pandering to his Base at Tax Payers expense. I am quite shocked that e.a.f. is not demanding that those same Tax Dollars do not go into the Ministry of Children.

    What a waste!

    Then there is the fact that the Feds are also wasting Tax Dollars in Court when they should be Leading but I am not surprised.

    then there is another question that no one dares ask. JUST WHO is paying for the First Nations Legal Court Challenges? Somehow I feel my Tax Dollars being waste on their Legal Challenges as well. Of course it is not their own Money, do you think they would be launching an Appeal if it was coming out of their own pocket?

    Doug – 4

    Weaver will NEVER cause the Government to fall, he is simply like the “Little Boy that Cried Wolf”, he is smart enough to realize that if he caused an early Election he and his two Minions would be destroyed in the Polarized Environment and there would not be one Green Elected. He is also well aware that the Green/Horgan/Meggs/Gunton “Coalition of Doom and Taxes” is a Failure and the Liberals would once again be Elected. No Doug there will be NO early Election, Weaver wants to build up his Pension before he is sent packing. A Legend in His Own Mind if there ever was one!!

    SB – 6

    Very interesting if factual.


    KM has been purchased by PM Justin and his Government which means the Canadian tax Payer.

    A Catastrophic Disaster at Best!!

    Get ready for a Death Duty/Estate Tax Canadians PM Justine will need to Fund his new toy somehow and there is only place and that is by Fleecing the Hard Working Tax Payer.

    I really wonder who is advising PM Justin, he must be listening to the advice of the Captain of Malaysian Flight MH 370!!

    What does he expect to accomplish? I do not get the logic, he has shown no leadership on this file and now he is showing us he was “Hanged, Drawn and Quartered” by Kinder Morgan.

    PM Justin has just confirmed to all that he is nothing more than an Empty Suite who likes to Dress up on Special Occasions and in fact he is Navigating the Choppy Waters of Adulthood with the Brain of an Adolescent.

    This Project will now Quadruple in price, it will take years longer than originally planned and the incoming Conservative Government will be left to “Pick Up the Pieces”!

    Then to top it all off the New Federal Government will be forced to sell the PM Justin Pipeline off at a “Fire Sale” Price which will end up costing the Tax Payer Billions.

    PM Justin just put his future as PM on the Line and He Lost Big Time!!

    Unfortunately so did the Canadian Tax Payer.

    I am Aghast!

  • 18 Peter Mleziva // May 29, 2018 at 11:36 am

    It is unspeakably irresponsible of the Trudeau government to reject tens of billions of dollars of revenues and private sector investment associated with the Kinder Morgan, Northern Gateway, and Energy East pipelines and instead put taxpayers at risk for billions of dollars with the nationalization of a pipeline [see below]. Why would companies want to do business in this country? There is a tidal wave of financial pressure coming upon our health care system and pensions as the baby boomers age and the country is already racking up unsustainable personal and government debt*. We need those revenues and economic investment from the private sector.


    Canada has lost $117 billion in revenues over the past seven years due to the inability to get a higher price for its oil by diversifying its sales to Asia.

    – $16.7 billion loss per year.

    Source:\ (Feb. 2018)

    The Enbridge Northern Gateway Project is cancelled due the federal government putting a ban on oil tanker traffic on the central and north coast of British Columbia.
    – A loss of $7.9 billion in private sector investment in the economy.

    Source: (April 2017)

    TransCanada pulls out of The Energy East Pipeline after the company cites too stringent new environmental regulations regarding indirect greenhouse gas emissions and stiff opposition in Quebec.
    – A loss of $15.7 billion in private sector investment in the economy.
    – Canada will continue to import billions of dollars a year in oil from the Middle East and elsewhere to supply eastern Canada even though we could be energy independent if the infrastructure was in place.

    Sources: (Oct. 2017) (Feb. 2017)
    (April 2017)
    (May 2018)

    Kinder Morgan will no longer proceed with the expansion of its pipeline.

    – A loss of $7.4 billion in private sector investment in the economy.
    – The federal government will spend $4.5 billion to buy the existing assets from Kinder Morgan and spend billions more to complete the expansion project.

    Source: (May 29, 2018)

  • 19 ellbee // May 29, 2018 at 11:39 am

    Well now it doesn’t seem to matter. With all of the delays KM is off the hook, and I doubt that was their end game. The protesters, those that pay taxes, now are stakeholders. This project runs right through the middle of my community. Most here are in favour as they have lived with the current line since it was built. I don’t blame Horgan for this. He was up front as to his position during the election campaign. The ones I have the problem with are those that would throw anything at all at the wall as a means of garnering support to stop this. Their tactics have made this a project that will get built, but instead of KM with the risk, we get ALL the risks.

  • 20 e.a.f. // May 29, 2018 at 12:44 pm

    13, no truly I wasn’t being sarcastic. Its just a cheap shot and I couldn’t resist. However, my point is all sorts of things have been legal and then illegal.

    Harvey is correct, in his post. all things have met the legal requirements, but we know it isn’t right because this is going to harm the environment and we on the coast will pay. Its not about the money, its about the environment.

    For those of us who have lived our lives on the coast and lost friends in winter storms on this coast, the ocean is merciless. We have had tankers, cargo ships loose power. They are all their legally, but if they have tar, it will not end well.

    Really there ought to be a law but there isn’t. There ought to be a law about the number of tankers leaving with that stuff. there ought to be a law that the tankers have to meet Canadian standards for holding that stuff. there ought to be a law the crew and captain are Canadian and Canadian trained with experience. There ought to be a law the companies can’t declare bankruptcy and are register in Canada and not Cyprus or some such country to avoid paying up what they owe.

    We won’t have control over the condition of the tankers, the experience of their crew, etc.

    Currently approx. 5 tankers per month leave with the tar and there haven’t been accidents but the plan is to have a tanker a day leave. That will not end well. One really bad storm and the crew isn’t great and the engine fails. I know what happens when waves are over 20 ft. high.

    The pipeline itself will be new and most likely be O.K. for 10 years but the tankers are what I object to.

    We as a country don’t gain a lot. The jobs are temporary, as in building the pipelines. In the end there will be less demand for the tar and countries will stop purchasing it. Saudi Arabia and one of its neighbours have a whole new oil field they recently discovered and its much nicer oil and less refining. Prices go down, our product won’t be required.

    Then there still is all that oil they have always suspected off the coast of Vietnam. That war wasn’t just about political philosophy. It was about oil.

    If Canada had been more forceful in its dealings with oil companies, we would have more refineries here in Canada, which would actually have provided long term jobs, and who knows even lower prices in gas. That huge sucking sound you hear each week is all that money leaving Canada to go to American oil gas companies.

    While Trudeau and Notely are `buying`that pipeline, they ought to build a couple of refineries. That is what would make our country secure. Right now its not, we have to purchase gas from others and that will get more and more expensive while we take more and more of the risks with the tar.

  • 21 SG // May 29, 2018 at 12:56 pm

    John’s Aghast #15

  • 22 BMCQ // May 29, 2018 at 2:59 pm

    Peter – 18

    Great Post!

    Thank you for the research.

    Unfortunately FACTS Do Not matter to many that Post on this Blog.

  • 23 Diverdarren // May 29, 2018 at 3:01 pm

    Harvey, the BC NDP have backed themselves against the wall. Were it not for their coalition with the Greens, Horgan would be wearing his Christy Hardhat groundbreaking for that pipeline.

    I’m sure that when the Courts rule in favour of the Feds authority over inter-provincial trade there will be a big sigh of relief for Horgan. Horgan, the Alberta Premier, and Trudeau will all be able to save face with their constituents.

    The discussion about whether we should get off our oil addiction has been handed several setbacks over the last few years. So, until the developed world all agree to reduce oil consumption I don’t see any reason to hog-tie our resource based economy by restricting our production of”ethical oil” for the world market.

    What I don’t see is a reason for Trudeau spending 4.5B on a pipeline company. If the courts rule in favour of the Feds then Kinder Morgan can start construction and we already indemnified the Company against losses as a result of delay.

    What I am worried about is that Trudeau may be thinking the Courts will rule against the Feds. Then this purchase is a waste of tax money. Canada will own a pipe company that can’t lay pipe.

    Also, Mourneu claims the government will be able to sell the new Crown Corp for a profit. If that’s true why would Kinder Morgan sell a company that will be worth more after the Court decision and the pipe is in the ground?… Unless Kinder knows the pipe will never happen.

    (Response: Horgan knows the BC NDP have been tarred in the past by their opponents as job killers … so I sometimes wonder, despite his ideological public posture, if he’d actually be happy to lose in court and enjoy the jobs and revenues this project (and any others down the line) would bring BC. Last thing Horgan/NDP need is a large resource job exodus from BC because it’s too difficult to do business here … on top of all kinds of retaliatory actions against BC goods by Alberta. h.o.)

  • 24 e.a.f. // May 29, 2018 at 4:07 pm

    SG at 21, Thank you for the link.

    That didn’t engender any great confidence in the tanker. it didn’t look that new. Double hulled is supposed to make people feel confident. I’d rather have something with 3 or 4 hulls because a double hull can crack about as easily as a single hull. Oh, well at least some of us can say later, we told you so but I’d feel so much better if there were an oil spill that the politicians and corporations who supposed all of this, were the ones who had to actually, physically clean it up.

  • 25 Hawgwash // May 29, 2018 at 5:24 pm

    Since trading wasn’t suspended during this con, how many insiders picked up a nice bit of change from Friday to Monday?

  • 26 John's Aghast // May 29, 2018 at 6:57 pm

    SG #21. Thanks. Still doesn’t make sense.
    Let’s revisit in a couple of years.

  • 27 Gene The Bean // May 30, 2018 at 8:30 am


    I see you understand how this game really works Hawg ….

  • 28 Eldon // May 30, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Having lived in the North, I understand how important resource development is to their livelihood and indeed their very existence. I don’t think people in the lower mainland truly grasp that.

    That being said, here in Chilliwack the opposition mainly focuses on rerouting the pipeline off our aquifer. Nestle was able to convince them to reroute for Hope, but KM remained deaf to Chilliwack’s concerns. More community outreach is needed, and I hope we get that now from the government. Investment + reasonable precautions is the right balance.

  • 29 BMCQ // May 30, 2018 at 1:45 pm

    IN FACT KM Was Halted.

    The Trading range over the past while was up or down about 3% which is/was not unusual and the Stock was both Higher and Lower before and after the Halt and Announcement.

    It would be very informative if one of the Trading Experts That frequent this Blog could please explain to The Great Unwashed just what Trading Strategy they Employed to Make Killing in the Market during the past year, months, weeks, days, hours, or minutes, it should be quite educational.

    Perhaps “Someone that knows how the Game is played” can inform us.

    Interesting how some here are so Paranoid they see a Crook behind every Bush.

    Facts are Facts, Kinder Morgan saw what was taking place with the Province of B.C., Alberta, First Nations, the MSM, and the very Rocky Road Ahead for the Pipeline and then saw an inept, ill equipped, impotent, and pathetically stupid Selfie And Facebook King of a Prime Minister and they did what any astute Business Leader would do they unloaded a Mill Stone for more than likely 4 or 5 times what it is worth and they provided Share Holders with a handsome Profit.

    Who can really Blame Them?

    And just who voted for PM Justin?

    Right about now several “Bill Boards” with Stephen Harpers Mug On it are being erected over Freeways right across Canada and the Captions will all read, “Miss Me Yet”?

    I know you will happily forgive me for being somewhat Cynical.

    (Response: Environment Minister George Heyman noted today the KM project received EIGHT more segment permit approvals in the past two weeks from BC officials … who operate according to regulations not political rhetoric. Clearly it IS going ahead. h.o.)

  • 30 Gilbert // May 30, 2018 at 5:45 pm

    Justin Trudeau has shown no leadership on this issue. Clearly it’s complex and needs a competent prime minister to deal with it. Our radical environmentalists want to send Canada back to the Stone Age!

    (Response: I disagree: I think Ottawa (Trudeau) has shown a LOT of leadership …to the point of putting up $4.5 Billion (likely a lot more) to push the project forward. And I think today I saw the first sign the BC government knows the project will proceed: Environment Minister George Heyman on CBC soft-pedaled the “pull out all the stops” to halt the project argument and kept emphasizing the BC government is just trying to make sure any shipments through the port will be handled with maximum safely and cleanup plans will be in place. Far different …. and I’d bet a much more popular stand with most. h.o.)

  • 31 BMCQ // May 31, 2018 at 6:39 am

    Words that should Frighten the Hell Out of ALL Hard Working Canadian Tax Payers.

    “Hello, I am from the Government and I am Here to Help” !!!

    Harvey – Response – 29

    People like me and perhaps even you a lot of the time find themselves in a difficult situation. We find that we are in almost total disagreement with the current Mayor of Vancouver, any other Municipality,, Premier, and PM are not who we would want to be Leading “The Great Unwashed” .
    We are critical of almost everything they do yet as Good Canadians we must/should hope that Government we do not like Much Success because it is good for Canadians of all backgrounds.

    I believe the Pipeline will go ahead but I also believe that it will now take many years longer than was initially intended and I believe the Tax Payer will end up being responsible for the recent purchase price of $ 4.5 Billion but another additional several Billion over $ 5 Billion to complete. Again, I also believe that a New Federal Government will be forced to sell the Pipeline off at a Fire Sale Price.

    If Polling is even close it appears that over 60% of the Canadian Population are in favour with somewhere around 25% Hard Against. PM Justin should have taken a Hard Line FOR the Pipeline early on and he may have been able to Ride that Courageous Stand into another Election Win next year. Now we will never know.

    Instead he Stuttered, Waffled, voiced unclear and uncertain Platitudes and he looked totally unprepared to be PM of a World G-7 Nation.

    PM Justin has found out the Hard Way that there is much more to being PM than Selfies, Facebook, Cutting Ribbons and Dressing Up while on Silly Photo Op Missions.

    I am Embarrassed for Him.

    Premier Notley will be defeated in a few years but we must all give her great credit by doing what she thinks is best for Alberta.

    That IS NOT a Good Result for Canadians and it will mean just more to add to our Yearly Budget Deficit and over all Federal Debt.

    Then there is the upcoming Cumbersome and almost impossible new set of federal Regulations.

    Can the Feds and their Newly Purchased Pipeline which PM Justin will re-name “The People Kind Pipeline” live up to any of the new upcoming Regulations?

    Gilbert – 30

    I am in total agreement!

    Harvey – 30 response

    I understand you feel the PM has shown Leadership on this File but I could not disagree more, I did agree with your original Essay but PM Justin has Lead from Behind on this File.

    The PM did not become involved until it was far far too late and KM and the Protest Movement all Smelled Blood in the Water.

    The PM put himself, his Government, and the Canadian Public/Tax Payer Behind the Eight Ball and he was very Transparent about it.

    I am going to guess that a Hungry Wolf would Smell Fear from the PM and I am quite sure Kinder Morgan sensed the very same thing.

    A very Big Mistake by the PM and Canadians will be Responsible for the Cost for generations yet to come.

    Then of course long after the PM is Defeated and sent to Pension we will be saddled with Unmanageable Environmental Regulations, Massive Regulatory Costs for any Projects whether they be Infrastructure or Natural Resources, and a Bloated, Poor Performing Federal Public Sector with several years of $ 30 Billion Plus Yearly Budget Over Runs long into the future.

    Those of you that wanted change at the Federal Level because of a few SMALL Criticisms of PM Harper are now living that Dream you wished for.

    The “People Kind Pipeline”, don’t you think it has a Nice Ring to It?

    I truly hope you are correct Harvey, Canadians are Great People and they deserve much much better.


    The only thing I will say about John Horgan, Meggs, Gunton, and the rest of his Brain Trust is I did expect more from Horgan, I thought he would Govern for ALL of the People of B.C. while showing respect and consideration for His Fellow Canadians including the Good People of Alberta.

    Sadly I have been Mistaken and I am very distressed by what he is doing just because Horgan and His Minions are trying to Score some Cheap Political Points.

  • 32 Gene The Bean // May 31, 2018 at 8:09 am

    I agree Harvey, Trudeau has shown immense leadership on the issue. He makes mistakes (as we all do) but on important issues he is spot on.

    Can you imagine having to live in Trumpastan and have to trust the ‘dear leader’ to do the right thing? Yikes.

    Just read an interesting analysis on Trump’s use of random capitalization in his writing. It is another sign of psychopathic narcissism – who knew – haha.

    I think we’d all like an update on your health too……..


    (Response: Slowly …but surly. Even getting out for brief sorties now …for more than just medical! 🙂 h.o)

  • 33 e.a.f. // May 31, 2018 at 12:58 pm

    one thing about the federal government purchasing the pipeline and thus the tap on the pipeline. It would be more difficult to turn off the tap, if the provinces don’t own it. This may have more to do with national unity than with oil/gas, etc. it maybe about what the federal government can and will do to disrupt disruptors.

  • 34 BMCQ // May 31, 2018 at 2:54 pm

    So let me get this straight.

    We now have someone suggesting that (and I paraphrase) “Sure our PM/Leader is a Moron, ill equipped, and a lousy leader but you should see the guy in the Country next door, he is even worse”.

    Immense Leadership? Yikes!

    Some people are easily pleased.

  • 35 John's Aghast // May 31, 2018 at 7:58 pm

    IMHO its just another expensive stranded asset, much like Site C. Truedough doesn’t HAVE to build the twin line and waste another $10 Billion.
    His call, but if he ever asks me,……..

  • 36 BMCQ // May 31, 2018 at 9:47 pm

    I agree, Unfortunately the number could easily be as high or even more than $10 Billion.

    Then of course how long before completion and turning on the pump?

    Very Happy to hear you are doing well Harvey!

  • 37 BMCQ // Jun 1, 2018 at 6:52 am

    This is worth a read no matter what one might think of Conrad or PM Justin.

  • 38 13 // Jun 2, 2018 at 7:07 am

    If anyone can sit back and feel comfortable with the leadership coming from Ottawa they must have their head buried deeply in the sand.
    Two pipelines should be under construction and nearing completion. Instead we have a dithering idiot that must by now have world leaders wonder what his next blunder will be.
    If past governments were as inept as our current government we would be buying power from the US. We would be driving on two lane highways. We would be wondering how to create a nation wide health care system.
    If it were not for periods of non PC sanity (Harpers time as leader) this country would be so deep in debt that “peoplekind” would wonder where their next meal would come from.
    Conrad Black might not be the most loved person in Canada but he certainly can see past the bafflegab of PM Justin

  • 39 e.a.f. // Jun 2, 2018 at 1:03 pm

    would have read the national post article, however it isn’t possible given their desire to have you purchase an ad blocker or accept them. Can’t figure that one out. I’ll try it through some other means.

    Now that is “our” Conrad black the one who gave up Canadian citizen ship so he could be a ‘Lord” in the British parliament, then was sent to jail in the U.S.A and then wanted back into Canada. I’m not suggesting he is all about himself or stupid, its just his track record does not recommend so that I’d value his opinion. I value Joe Clark’s opinion a whole lot more and yours for that matter. May not agree with them all the time, but you’re not crooks and you’ve never given up your Canadian citizens ship for an unfashionable robe that you’d trip on if you had to run for it.

  • 40 e.a.f. // Jun 2, 2018 at 1:08 pm

    could find a way past those ad things, but did find an article he wrote suggesting, Why Doug Ford needed to be the next Premier of Ontario. Ya, not so much. don’t think Conrad has much to say I’d want to read if he supports Ford as premier. That guy is a like a min dump the trump in training.

  • 41 Eldon // Jun 2, 2018 at 1:56 pm

    Mr. Mleziva, are you neglecting the possibility that the pipeline could prove to be profitable for the government and fund those retirement and medical bills in perpetuity?

    From a former student. 😉

  • 42 BMCQ // Jun 2, 2018 at 3:07 pm

    e.a.f. – 40

    I appreciate you making the effort to look that up.

    I honestly do not like a lot about Conrad and I find/found him to be an Elite, Greedy, and really a person that took unfair of his
    Position, the Corp, and ultimately the ?Tax Payer.

    You and I may never agree on much but I would rather break bread with you than who Conrad was.

    (Edited…off topic. h.o)

    I read all of your Posts because I am fearful I might learn something!

    IMHO that is what this Blog is all about an exchange of ideas with debate.

    Ford WILL be Premier of Ontario, the Hard Working Tax Payer of ALL Incomes have had enough of the Wynn Liberal Dumpster Fire.

    Remember what I have pointed out about Snells Law of Physics.

    Staying on topic I will post something else a little later after I am settled you might find of interest.

    (Response: Getting way off topic. As usual, I allow leeway .. the next thing, the blog topic is totally diverted. Trump’s/US attack on Canada is MUCH MORE important than Conrad Black …so will end the Black thread now. h.o)

  • 43 BMCQ // Jun 2, 2018 at 7:53 pm

    Topic Kinder Morgan should proceed


    I believe the excellent Rex Murphy Opinion Piece Attached should be of interest to many here.

  • 44 G. Barry Stewart // Jun 3, 2018 at 10:15 am

    Now that WE will be owning the pipeline, why don’t we stop the fuss about twinning it and put OUR money into building another refinery or two near the source of the tar sands oil?

    Refine it for Canadians, giving us more well-paying jobs, rather than shipping it off to markets that will soon be unstable, as the tar sands oil is high in sulphur and the world is moving away from sulphur (notably for bunker C fuel.)

    If prairie oil was refined in the prairies, the current pipeline would be sufficient for shipping refined products.

    Big Oil will not be with us for centuries to come. Just as Big Coal has lost its cache, we will be transitioning to other sources of energy.Why bury resources in the ground, for something that may have a 20 or 30-year lifespan?

    Once the pipes are in the ground, it’s highly unlikely they would ever be dug up for recycling. Such a waste. A defunct refinery, on the other hand, could be disassembled and recycled more easily.

    I realize the above change of course would lead to more delays and “dithering.” Some people prefer a firm decision, even if it is a poor one.

  • 45 BMCQ // Jun 3, 2018 at 5:38 pm

    Barry – 44

    I believe many Canadians would agree with you.

    I am told that (if factual) a Refinery could cost five times a pipeline and take much longer to complete.
    Then again, I believe the pipeline as it now stands will take much longer than originally planned.

    Then of course what about Protests and Delays and Regulatory, just how difficult and how much delay for that ardurous process.

    Unfortunately it looks to me like the “Hard Core” Anti Anything 5% and Leftist Activists would Protest a Warm Sunny Day in January.

    Contrary to what many believe Oil and Gas ARE NOT Sunset Industries and they both will both be with us for generations.

    I do not believe anyone has “Dithering” perfected better than a Leftist Canadian Politician, we have had things far too good in this country.

    Quite often I bring up Norway on this Blog, they would have nothing and would still be living hand to mouth if it was not for their Fish Farming, Oil, Offshore Oil, Pipelines, Oil Tankers, Gas, Gas Pipelines, now LNG Exports by Ship, and a little Aluminum production and Export.

    All of the EU will soon have Norway as it’s preferred LNG supplier because of their hate for the Greedy Vlad Putin and his once more or less extorted Mafia Controlled Natural Gas Pipeline that was used to hold the EU Population to Ransom.

    We in Canada will soon be facing $ 30 Billion Dollar Budgets and we have NO Leadership on. Literally ANY Issue of Consequence, our Preening, Prancing, PM Justin will simply be a by-stander while our Economy Grinds to a haunt over the next two years and a new Conservative Government will be ;eft to pick up the pieces.

    Why DO Canadians “Dither” so much and why do we need to learn the Hard Way?

    Why take action when we can have another discussion, a protest, or a meeting?

    We need action on a Pipeline or even a Refinery, or even both now!

    Now that Canadians own KM we should consider the following plan.

    We should Fix and Tepair The People Kind (KM) Pipeline, leave it and Shipping Schedule of a handful of Tankers out of Burnaby each week. That would change nothing here in the Greater YVR.

    We then should re-launch Northern Gateway and put a new High Tech Pipeline from Alberta to Prince ?Rupert under the same Crown Corporation.

    There is a much more welcoming from First Nations up north and that Pipeline would be easier to build without Regulatory Nightmares.

    We would then not be adding more Tankers to the Tight Shipping Lanes in the south of B.C. waters.

    The then additional Oil Tankers would leave from Prince Rupert and we would see Ships already well up the Coast away from heavy ocean going traffic and more difficult navigational obstacles and shipping lanes further south.

    At the same time it would crest a whole new Industrial Base in Prince Rupert and the North and in turn spawn a huge new power Centre of Employment and Service Industries. We then could add a Train Line Spur in the same area used for other Canadian Natural Resource Exports and B.C. Would have an Economic Stimulus bigger than anything since the 1950”s.

    Now it is up to you BARRY, tell your friends in positions of power to “Pull their Thumb Out”!

    I really Hope to Hell I am not Off Topic here.

  • 46 BMCQ // Jun 3, 2018 at 5:40 pm

    My apologies, $ 30 Billion Dollar Budget Deficits

  • 47 13 // Jun 3, 2018 at 7:15 pm

    @BMCQ, If I might add to your most excellent economic plan. A plan that would allow us to almost keep up to the costs of an expanding refugee population. An ever expanding municipal, provincial, and federal insatiable appetite for tax dollars. I see the BCGEU running ads that proclaim “now is the time to invest in the public sector”……………………………………. Excuse the absence as I was sickened for a moment. But to add to your plan . BUILD (not a random use of caps) the Keystone pipeline. BUILD the Energy East pipeline. Lets show the world that Canada is a place to grow, invest, and prosper. Now that we have a “leader” that believes in tar sand oil and getting it to ocean ports lets move before he changes his mind.

  • 48 13 // Jun 5, 2018 at 8:00 pm

    So fossil fuels are a sunset industry?
    GBS has a Nissan Leaf. Thats likely leaving a few barrel of oil in the ground every year but what about trucking. How many semis do you see evry day on BC roads? Lots. Thousands every day. The one I drive is an eco diesel powered Volvo. Not sure whats eco about it but I am sure that every 2 days I pour 300 liters of diesel into the tanks. ONE truck out of the many, some likely using a lot more diesel.
    I asked my boss for a new electric Tesla Semi. He said not this week maybe next.
    How about an electric Boeing 747 to shuttle ex climate guru Justin Trudeau to a feel good Paris conference. How about an electric rocket booster? An electric aircraft carrier? A completely electric army. Think about how quiet warfare could be?
    Were gonna need site c and site d and site e……………

  • 49 G. Barry Stewart // Jun 9, 2018 at 11:23 pm

    Further to my comments in 44, here’s a part of economist Robyn Allan’s piece in the National Observer, from June 7.

    “Shortly after adopting the $15 billion a year mantra last February, Ms. Notley issued her annual Budget: Alberta’s 2018-21 Fiscal Plan.

    If Ms. Notley’s claimed benefits from Trans Mountain’s expansion were credible, it would be reasonable to expect that her formal budget document would provide more insight into how the figure was developed. So I checked. It does not.

    “Instead, Ms. Notley’s Budget says the exact opposite of what she claims will come from Trans Mountain’s expansion. According to the Budget, Trans Mountain’s expansion will produce no benefit at all — that’s right, no benefit.”

    Lots of activity and the look of “We’re doing something”… but in the end, pipeline expansion will do nothing — and WE’LL be the ones holding the empty wallet.

    If you don’t know who Robyn Allan is: