Keeping it Real…

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Little in Promises/Platforms for MOST of Us!

April 19th, 2017 · 84 Comments

No wonder voter turnout is so dismal.

Anyone who listens to the politicians, reads the party platforms, hears the speeches and follows the news accounts of all the promises made will soon realize ….  if they really stop and think … there’s VERY LITTLE in any it for MOST of us!


I know we’re supposed to vote for the collective good: what’s best for society; what will help those who need it most; what will protect the planet; and, what will make our grandkids proud.

Let’s keep it real: more often than not, people vote PRIMARILY  their own interests: what will be best for THEM … lower taxes, cut costs and provide better services they actually need and use.

I used to vote more based on ideals …when I was working, made a good salary, had money left over at the end of each pay period, and was willing to contribute more to help repair the world.   And regularly hummed “We are the world …”


Now, 11 years after living on a BCTV pension that has not had a single cost of living increase, no medical coverage, no dental, etc. I have  …like so many others … struggled with (in addition to all the usual personal spending cost increases) HUGE boosts as well in EVERY government-imposed and regulated living cost, including provincial income tax, federal income tax, municipal taxes, school taxes, transit taxes, regional taxes, parking fees and residential permit fees, ICBC charges, Hydro fees, gasoline taxes and, of course sales taxes (provincial and federal) on almost everything else.  And don’t get me started once more on MSP.


So, like MANY other voters, I have been watching the promises, this time wondering:  What’s in it for ME???

And like MANY other voters, the answer is: not very much.

Foreign buyers’ home tax; empty house speculation tax; higher property tax transfer fees for homes over $3 million; eliminating grizzly bear hunt in the Great Rain Forest; $10/month or free daycare; $400 annual rent subsidy; urgent care centres in underserved areas;  increased spending on education; interest-free student loans; higher welfare and disability rates or basic guaranteed income program; more park rangers …. all wonderful for those who need them … but NONE of them will do anything to help pay MY bills.

In fact, they’ll likely make things WORSE for most of us in the middle, who they’ll hit to pay for them all.

Elimination of bridge tolls; BC/coastal ferries price freeze; lifetime capital gains tax on more than $750,000; removal of the surtax on those earning over $150,000/year; increases in corporate tax rate; millions for high speed internet in rural areas; Site C dam construction …or cancellation; and, boosting corporate tax rate; higher carbon taxes …. NO BENEFITS for me to rush to the polls.

But again, those of us who benefit least or not at all, will be hit to pay for these promises.

Many of us could benefit, however, from a Hydro freeze … but only temporarily; scrapping MSP … but likely not for years more; free foot-passenger ferry rides weekdays for seniors … they’ll probably raise parking rates at terminals to compensate; and a freeze in ICBC rates …again, only temporary, at best … all in all,  really NOT MUCH for most middle class voters!

And who knows what unannounced plans, increases, fees and surcharges the leaders/parties have not told us about or will develop to force middle income voters to pay for all those things mentioned that will benefit their big supporters and target bases!

The scary truth … in the end, whoever does win, the vast majority of us will gain little or nothing … but will just end up paying more, more, more for programs that benefit others.

Maybe that’s why BC provincial election turnout of eligible voters has fallen from 70.5% in 1983 to 59.1% in 1996; 50.9% in 2009; and, 55.3% in 2013.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: Leaders’ Debate… this Thursday April 20 on News 1130 (on air and on Internet) from 8:30 a.m. to 10 a.m.  Listen closely to see what promises YOU will benefit from …or just be hit for more taxes/fees.  )

Tags: British Columbia

84 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Rainclouds // Apr 19, 2017 at 8:18 am

    Retired 11 years …….whoa. Seems like yesterday you were holding Lucien Bouchard to account in Ottawa:-)

    I am only 4 yrs into my non indexed no medical pension and can see the day when inflation/fees/taxes erodes it to the point where it will be my Friday beer stipend.

    Not only are the promises pathetic, we live in an era of nickel and diming by every level of govt unilaterally imposing yet another tax , fee increase.

    duplicitous politicians, compliant media, disgusted electorate…….what could possibly go wrong?

    (Response: I know many in the media read this blog. Perhaps one of them will be brave enough to stray off script as provided by the leaders/parties and ASK why so little will actually help the vast majority of those of us who vote??? And is it just another case of promises to their donors, supporters and bases …all to be paid for by the rest of us???? h.o)

  • 2 Gene The Bean // Apr 19, 2017 at 9:58 am

    The attitude of “What’s in it for me” has gotten us to where we are now.

    Far too many people are selfish and only look out for themselves.

    When the scales tip and “those” people become the majority, we get things like low voter turn-outs, Donald Trump, Stephen Harper, Christy Clark, fake news, bought off media and people literally lying their asses off because they know they can.

    No thanks.

    My world is a better place.

    (Response: I wish YOU were right …and most voters acted upon what they believe is best for society in general in the long run. BUT with a title Keeping it Real …can’t honestly say I believe that is the case these days and will be on May 9. h.o)

  • 3 r // Apr 19, 2017 at 9:59 am

    If one is not going to vote for something then vote against something?

    How is BC to pay-
    Cancel Site C – save 10 billion dollars and fire up burrard thermal generator and use others like wind ,solar ,geothermal.
    Cancel all BCHydro IPP contracts and save almost 1 billion (1000 million) a year.Because they are prcied up to 300 % over open market rates.
    Raise corporate tax 1 percent.
    Raise top tax bracket 2 percent.
    Cancel Massey bridge -save 4 billion dollars and build 1 billion dollar tunnel instead.
    review raw log export and have value added processing here at home.
    Raise property foreign tax to 20%,from current 15%
    Promote tourism industry
    Minimize political donations as they start at 75% refund (400 dollars gets you a 300 dollar tax credit)
    Open a syngas(LNG to gasoline) plant to keep gas prices lower and remove reliance on out of area refineries.

    (Response: Actually, voting AGAINST is a long Canadian (and elsewhere) tradition. Unless, of course, you conclude the replacement would be even worse for you. I’d bet that’s a dilemma MANY voters will be considering this election. h.o)

  • 4 North Van's Grumps // Apr 19, 2017 at 12:13 pm

    We’re in the similar boat as you are h.o. We have five more years before we can say Mortgage Free but with the ever increasing property taxes of $7,000 just for last year, it looks like the only way to stay afloat and be able to live here, is go for the BC Provincial “Defer Your Property Tax” program.

    Of course the Defer your home property debt regime is no different than what BC Hydro has been forced to do by the BC Liberals just so they can balance their books.

    Is there a source as to how many properties land titles have been modified to add the BC Government Deferral program?

    (Response: No idea about those stats… but I have no doubt that you and I and tens of thousands others in the middle will be hit for more, more, more whoever gets elected so they can pay off their supporters. Just wish there was one party that took into greater consideration those in the middle …. who aren’t really rich political donors or living on huge pensions/savings and also don’t yet need welfare … but ARE having an increasingly difficult time balancing the bills, paying for Hydro, ICBC, taxes and just filling our gas tanks! Who is addressing those people??? h.o)

  • 5 ISLAND LOOKOUT // Apr 19, 2017 at 4:34 pm


    …are also our’s here in Victoria.

    We’re dining out on our pensions and right now things are fine because we are endeavouring to keep expenses under control.

    Therefore, we decided to rent our digs after we sold our SFD last year.

    But looking forward all I see in government is an intractable, if impenetrable, forest of increasing taxes, imposts and other charges all of which, of course, are for “our own good.”

    That’s why I’m going to vote Liberal.

    Taxation will keep rising no matter which party is in power. But the NDP has a terrible history of quickening that confiscatory pace and that bothers me a lot.

    So I vote Liberal.

    The brutal truth of your post is clearly evident: Canadians can no longer afford to pay for the way we collectively live.

    There are not enough of us and too many of us are getting too old too quickly.

    Uncontrolled, and soon uncontrollable, costs will be the death us us all unless we start electing folks who’ll promise only “blood, toil, sweat and tears”
    in response to our clearly unaffordable so-called “lifestyle” demands.

    We also harbour the illusion that being middle class is somehow a right and not a near-impossible privilege.

    Because it is and only a few ever really attain that apparent higher status, the rest being consigned to the glorious Working Class.

    In reordering our costly society we must sort out what minimum government services we can actually afford versus what we really WANT or think we NEED.

    Wants and needs: so many of both and so little money to pay.

    That is why governments are debt-soaked because politicians cannot say “no” to our demands fearing electoral defeat, which is OUR fault.

    We’re like those who borrow up the ying yang to buy an obviously over-priced house then use our credits cards to pay daily bills because we say we have a “right to be in the middle class.”

    Middle clcass is a fiction.

    Those who are middle class are those who have enough income to live, with some left over to save, and ZERO debts. I mean NO debts.

    Those people are scarce as hen’s teeh. And it will be ever thus.

    So, Harvey, we need gutsy politicians who have the brass balls to tell us like it is and to offer a lot of hard slogging to get to the point where government debts/services start to significantly decline and deficits disappear.

    What’s really holding us all back is demographics as I’ve already noted.

    Aging populations do not create wealth, they destroy wealth.

    As things are going, we’re all pretty much screwed.

    (Response: Kind of depressing, isn’t it! No wonder so many don’t vote. h.o)

  • 6 harry lawson // Apr 19, 2017 at 4:47 pm


    you have so eloquently stated why many of us feel abandoned and politically homeless, Vanderzalm promised cheap beer in 1986 still waiting by the way.

    we are two weeks into the campaign i have still have not heard anything to make me want to vote
    as it stands today i will most likely abstain from voting because i will not hold my nose and be a hypocrite

    as a side note living in Langley being retired the dropping the bridge tolls does little for me as i still cant afford to park in Vancouver

    (Response: It’s as if NONE of the parties provincially these days care or direct their policies to the vast majority … pandering and promising LOTS to those on the fringes …rich or poor. Never used to be this way: the key to victory used to be promises and platforms appealing to the majority. Clearly not any more …and we’ll find out May 9 which side … not the centre …wins the latest tug of war. h.o)

  • 7 Marge // Apr 19, 2017 at 5:17 pm

    Both the Libs and the NDP totally forget who the average voter is. Both sides promise the moon and stars to “their group” totally not getting that it is the middle class who actually vote.
    They also forget that we are becoming so tired of all the lies and garbage they feed us. I can’t stand to watch a Christy Clark commercial – that smug face has made up so many stories. Weren’t we all supposed to be incredibly wealthy this time around from all that LNG stuff she was touting last go round? Doesn’t she even think for one minute that we might actually recall the last set of lies? Obviously not or she wouldn’t be spouting them over and over and over? And don’t get me started about the balanced budget crap – balanced at our expense but hey they’ll believe anything won’t they Ms. Clark?
    That said, Horgan is equally bad. What do I care about $10 daycare – except for the fact that my tax dollars will fund it. Talking over and over about the 1%ers doesn’t cut it for me either. What the heck are you offering me Mr. Horgan that will make my life just a bit better? So far nothing…

    Right now I am paying a ton of money out of pocket for my healthcare. I have continuous pain and am going to alternative therapies to seek some relief. Right now with two of us working, we can afford it. If God forbid, one of us lost their job, it might be something I might reconsider. That said I can afford it just. How would a senior pay for it or a single parent? Just for fun at Shoppers the other day, I asked what my meds would cost if I retired. That day it was around $25 because of extended medical. Without over $100. How do seniors or low income people survive if they have health issues?

    Last election federally I voted for Harper as better the devil we knew that the one we didn’t and I was certainly proven correct on that one. This time around I’m going to vote for the devil I don’t know and totally opposite to what I normally would have voted for.

    So again I will be voting again something rather than for something. I absolutely can’t stand Clark so this will be a protest vote against her and the idiot running for the Liberals in my riding. The NDP have my vote because Clark lost mine. Her lies outweigh those of Horgan, at least until the next election.

  • 8 D. M. Johnston // Apr 19, 2017 at 8:39 pm

    This is the great do nothing – promise little” and screw you, election.

    Probably why this is happening is that Clark has driven up the provincial debt (including contractual obligations) to $170 billion. Both parties know this and they know that the electorate is pissed off.

    The Liberals are so past their “Best Before” date that they smell worse than a baby’s week old diaper.

    The Greens are just green-wash Liberals in drag.

    The NDP, forever yesterday’s political party, are lost in their own hubris.

    And our lone independent has retired!

    All I can see, is that this election is all about corruption and it takes a lot of money to buy an election and I think Clark has bought herself four more years.

    So many bad, bad investments; so much corruption; so much lies and deceit, but the suckers in BC will vote Liberal every time.

    I am beyond despair.

    (Response: Sorry to say …you sum it up perfectly. :( I can’t understand how politics in BC has downgraded to the point where NEITHER of the top two parties are offering so little to the vast majority of voters. They seem so out of touch with so many. Maybe if enough of us start shouting that from the rafters and the media realizes how they are missing that angle … the REAL story of this election … things will change ….next time? h.o)

  • 9 DBW // Apr 19, 2017 at 8:40 pm

    Maybe just vote against alternative facts.

  • 10 BMCQ // Apr 20, 2017 at 5:00 am

    You and 8 of the first 9 Posters have set the table very well for the newest thread on the 2017 Election Campaign.

    Honestly whichever of the two Parties the NDP or the Liberals becomes Government there will be many unhappy voters and Residents of B.C.

    No different than the U.S. Election, Brexit, Canadian Federal, and many other Elections the Electorate in B.C. Is Polarized and almost everyone inB.C. Will be left somewhat disatisfied and unfulfilled even if the Party they support becomes Government.

    B.C. Is an expensive place to live no matter where you are, then look at VICTORIA, YVR, Vancouver Kelowna, and any other Metropolitan Centre and that Cost of Living increases even more.

    Even from just reading on this Blog for the past few days And now with this newest Topic it would be easy for one to see that we must somehow have more accountability from both Government, Opposition, the Bureaucracy, Business, Advocy Groups, and Media of all types.

    The place to start is with Media of all types and our traditional MSM.

    Regardless of our personal ideology we must somehow demand that Media shine a better light on Politicians and their Platforms during a Campaign.

    We must also demand that Media do. a better job after the Election for the 4 years that Provincial Government is in power.

    We need more from the Auditor General on an ongoing basis but it appears that the AG Office itself has morphed into a Cesspool of Bureaucracy and nothing of significance is accomplished.

    For some crazy reason here people vilify JORDAN Bateman but month after month he is the only one pointing out Government Waste at all levels and we need more of that.

    Somehow we need to control Government Waste.. yes we need Transit, Health, Education, and all other Ministries functioning at a high level but we should also consider what Island Lookout says when he points out that we could be asking for too much in many cases.

    We also need more analysis on Ferries, ICBC, Health Care, Education, Hydro, and others mentioned, MSM needs to do more. Of course then the Culture of Media has changed and we even have seen our own concern or care for knowledge and information change, especially for so many in our population say under 40. Not all DBW but a high percentage of those under 49 pay no attention to anything going on around them, they are totally consumed in their own social networking culture and they could not care on little bit if the Huns attached from the north tomorrow.

    Easy for me to say but pur society needs to control size and cost of Government, we need to make all Ministrues accountable and transparent and we need to do something about the cost of housing and every day living.

    Somehow at the same time we need to do better for our Seniors, the hard working that have worked, paid Taxes, built this Province, and given us what we have today.

    We need Politicians that will demand more accountability from those younger that take advantage of the system, we somehow need to make them more accountable, we need to turn them into productive members of society and we need to demand more from people from anywhere in the world that wish to start a new life in Canada.

    If that means some sort of a Head Tax for want of a better term so be it. That HT should be used exclusively to provide Government Housing for Canadian Senior Citizens that have been Canadian for over say 30 years.

    I know that is not acceptable to many but to me it would be a good start.

    We must do better for our Seniors and it is time for Politicians to stop being so Poliricallt Correct.

    Are there any Politicians of any brand out there that can promise and deliver on any of that?

    (Response: Interesting you mention the federal election. Despite my criticisms of Trudeau, I did feel comfortable voting Liberal as an alternative to what Harper had become… and despite his imperfections, I’m still satisfied with my (and other Canadians’) choice. But provincially, I just not happy with and don’t feel served by any of them …quite a dilemma I suspect for MANY middle of the road voters. h.o)

  • 11 nonconfidencevote // Apr 20, 2017 at 5:25 am

    Yes this election seems to be a race to the bottom of the medocrity barrel.
    Christy Clark is barely showing up and I put that down to either her arrogant hubris at the expected result on election night or her well known ability to hide when the going gets tough.

    Horgan, yeesh. The NDP just doesnt GET it! The reason they go down in flames election after winnable election is their mindless carefree promises. Tossing buckets of $100 bills out of a moving garbage truck at Main and Hastings would be a more taxpayer affordable plan. Hugo Chavez would be proud at all the socialistic pandering comrade Horgan has promised. I’m waiting for his next unaffordable promise.
    “Transgendered toilets on every street corner” seems to be the cause celeb these days.

    But, my disgust for 15 + YEARS of Liberal arrogance, stupidity, corruption and lies far exceeds 4 years of the NDP stumbling around in the dark with a loaded gun pointed at their feet.
    I’ll be protest voting NDP for a change of govt.. Nothing more altruistic than that.

    (Response: I’ve long believed that governments in office too long get tired, arrogant and should be changed …unless the alternative would be worse. I do intend to vote…but have quite a dilemma: Libs don’t impress and have been in power 16 years; my current |MLA is NDP ..and can’t recall even hearing ANYTHING from him or him doing ANYTHING meaningful since last election … and then there are the Greens, who frankly, I fear would be worse than Vision I really would not want to see as government. So….? h.o)

  • 12 Another blog reader // Apr 20, 2017 at 7:00 am

    I read this blog and I just wanted to share this little tidbit that I found on CBC news. It just seems so consistent with the ‘Wild West’ lax approach the BC Liberals have towards financial matters. There was the New York Times article portraying BC as the Wild West of campaign finance. And now this in CBC:

    According to the article, the Canadian Association of Retired Persons (CARP) conducted a poll of its member and found that retired Canadians want provincial governments to do more to protect their savings. One of the key findings was that “89 per cent of CARP members support a best interest standard (requiring that the interests of financial consumers be put at the forefront of all investment decisions).”

    You may recall that CBC recently ran several stories about how bank employees were saying they felt pressure from management to do things that were not in the best interest of their clients.

    The article points a finger at BC:

    “The Ontario Securities Commission supports introducing a best interest standard, but one of the most outspoken critics is the B.C. Securities Commission, which says such a standard “will be misleading for clients” in part because “the proposed standard is vague, which will make it difficult to enforce.”

    The U.K. and Australia implemented a best interest standard in 2013, and the EU will bring one in next January.

    Go Public requested an interview with B.C. Finance Minister Mike de Jong to ask whether he supported a best interest standard, but was told he was campaigning in a provincial election and unavailable for comment.”

    My reaction: Doesn’t this just reinforce the perception that the BC Liberals are open to a sort of Wild West approach to financial regulations and do not care about the financial well-being of ordinary citizens. I just think it is appalling that the Finance Minister de Jong was too busy campaigning for re-election than to answer CBC’s questions on this matter. What could be more important to the Finance Minister’s constituents and the people of BC than the protection of hardworking people’s life savings?! It sounds like the type of question that a Finance Minister who is seeking re-election should be required to answer.

  • 13 Another blog reader // Apr 20, 2017 at 7:23 am

    The topic of this blog post is ‘What is in it for me?’

    I’ll chime in on that question, even though I rarely post comments (after posting one comment, I feel more chatty all of a sudden).

    Generally speaking, I share the sentiments of many on this blog that the platforms of the parties do not have much to offer us. I agree that both the BC Liberals and the NDP have abandoned the middle class. Not just the middle class. The working class have been abandoned too. I was planning on not voting at all in order to register my dissatisfaction with all the political parties on offer. Up to now, I have generally voted NDP.

    I am going to vote NDP in this election, at least one more time. The reason is there actually is something in the NDP platform for me: the promise to eliminate the loophole in the Residential Tenancy Act that allows fixed-term leases where a landlord can force you out at the end of your lease or raise the rent by some astronomical level if you want to stay. This is a huge issue for me because under the current system, middle class and working class renters like me have very little security of tenure.

    The situation is very dire for renters right now. I make a good income but I fear I could end up without a place to live. I shouldn’t have to worry about that given how hard I work–but the reality is I could find myself being homeless or in a very bad situation. Both of my last two landlords wanted me to sign a fixed-term lease. I refused in both cases and managed to convince both landlords to enter into the other type of lease, the lease that reverts to a month-to-month tenancy at the end of the term of the lease allowing the renter to continue living there on the same terms with the same rent (or a modest rent increase that is allowed under the law for an existing tenant). I must have pretty good negotiating skills because both of my past landlords relented and allowed me to get the lease that goes month-to-month. I told them flat out that the apartment where I was already living was a lease that went month-to-month so I already had security of tenure where I was already living so I wasn’t going to leave that situation and lease somewhere where I will be forced out at the end of the year. When I put it that way both landlords agreed and I got my way. I can’t count on that forever though. Eventually I will meet my match in landlords when it comes to negotiating skills. My leases were started a few years ago. I have heard anecdotal evidence that the rental market is even worse today and landlords have little incentive to give in to tenants and the vast majority of landlords are insisting on fixed-term leases now. It may be next to impossible right now today to rent an apartment in Vancouver that is not on a fixed-term lease. That is a major issue for renters–and not all renters are impoverished.

    (Response: Really glad you feel chatty on this blog. :) Your thoughts and ideas ARE really interesting and welcome…and I really think that’s what makes this forum quite a good exercise in democracy …more than just me ranting, like some sites that don’t allow people to respond, discuss ad disagree. Your case reminds me of a friend of mine, who has faced rent increases every year…but hasn’t had a wage increase in three years…and yet ALL his bills have gone up too. I’m not sure though government can really do much about this … but he sure likes the $400 NDP promise …as at least SOMETHING for him…. and that alone could have a major impact on this election, more than the Libs realize. h.o)

  • 14 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 20, 2017 at 8:17 am

    I see sentiments here and elsewhere that “politicians are all the same.”

    My response: “Well let’s try the other brand of ‘all the same’ this time and see how it turns out.”

    Them: “Oh no…. we can’t do that. The NDP will bankrupt the province!”

    Me: “Well hey… when you go bankrupt, your debts are forgiven. We’re $170 billion in the hole now.”

    Them: “That’s ridiculous. Who’s going to forgive $170 billion?”

    “BC Liberal voters…”

    If given another mandate, Christy’s party isn’t going to give the books a good shake-down, nor do any rooting around at BC Hydro… probably the biggest sinkhole in our province’s finances.

    We need fresh, critical eyes to see where the tired and lazy eyes have let us down — then we need corrective action.

    I’m voting for change and I hope many others will join me.

  • 15 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 20, 2017 at 8:24 am

    If you want to vote FOR something that will help all BC Hydro ratepayers, here’s a video that might inspire you to vote for stopping Site C.

    It’s a much easier ‘read’ than the damning UBC study, which you’ll find here:

  • 16 ISLAND LOOKOUT // Apr 20, 2017 at 10:48 am

    #12 Another Blog Reader

    The most difficult decision a private citizen can make regarding making investments is what to buy, when to buy, and from whom.

    I’ve been investing in various stock, bond, and precious metals markets for the last 48 consecutive years. So far so good.

    Throughout I’ve learned A LOT.

    It takes guts and courage.

    I also took investment courses, attended lectures and spoke with umpteen numbers of financial types throughout. Investing your money is not an “invest it and forget it” ruse.

    It’s like being a skipper aboard his ship. You are ALWAYS on watch and on the bridge. Because that’s just the way it damn well is. It’s a religious experience of sorts.

    Even given my experience, one of the toughest assignments was allocating funds from our house sale last year.

    April, a year ago, seemed awfully “iffy” for investors.

    But we ploughed ahead anyway, as I always have done, and things turned out just fine and continue to do so even in these volatile markets, made more so by Trump, North Korea, et al.

    My favourite investments now are as follows (and I am not giving advice here): Canada’s five largest banks (preferred and common shares); Brookfield Asset Management, a world-class Canadian multinational worth billions; large Canadian insurers; some pipeline companies; various bank ETFs to “protect” volatile pricing of our common bank shares; ETFs in utilities and other markets.

    ETFs are open-ended mutual funds that trade daily on the markets, pay quarterly or monthly dividends (or equivalents) and whose “fees” are generally .50 percent per annun or thereabouts.

    Check that out.

    As for American stocks, I can’t recommend any but the American banking system, which came under such criticism in the 2008 meltdown, is the “banks of record” for the American Empire.

    If they go down, then the Empire would have collapsed a couple of hours beforehand.

    CARP may help some but its whiney survey of oldsters worried about their money shows one glaring problem: Why don’t those investors study more about investing before they pitch themselves off the financial cliff, via goofy decision-making in the first place?

    This is a case of Buyer Beware. They will never be bailed out nor should they be.

    Best Interest Standard, is a meaningless phrase.

    Translated into English it goes something like this:

    “I’m a senior. I’m too stupid/tired/confused to know which side of the sky the sun comes up every day, and I want someone to make me a coffee! and I’m afraid of a stock market crash!!”

    Give your damns heads a shake.

    Finance Minister Mike de Jong isn’t your “Investment Babysitter in Chief.” He has enough to do already. Not his problem.

    BTW, those bank whistleblowers probably did some good.


    Those smart enough, to plough through the CBC’s left-wing anti-capitalist stories, will realize that it is consumers who are responsible for asking the tough questions concerning commisions, trailer fees and so on. Too simple.

  • 17 Crankypants // Apr 20, 2017 at 11:03 am

    I just watched the debate on City TV and would have to say that nobody won. For the most part all we heard was more of the same stump speeches we have been inundated with since the writ was dropped.

    I don’t think that Bill Good did a very good job of moderating. He should have stopped the bickering between John Horgan and Christie Clark from the get-go. He didn’t and that made it next to impossible to hear a good portion of what was being said. Let’s hope that the next debate is handled better.

  • 18 Hugh // Apr 20, 2017 at 12:20 pm

    BC Hydro signed $56 billion worth of sweetheart deals to buy power from IPPs.

    No wonder why hydro rates go up every year, and every year going into the future.

    That money will not be going to upgrade BC Hydro’s own infrastructure.

  • 19 BMCQ // Apr 20, 2017 at 12:47 pm

    Of course Both Parties have their warts and we must then choose which of those parties that promises or represents what we desire in a Government, whether they then deliver on those promises is another story.

    We must however understand like the case of NonCon, Marge, and a few others that when we “Vote the Bums Out” it is nor for just a three month period and many changes we may not desire could take place, some could do irreparable damage to the economy for generations to come.

    Of course you NDP Supporters feel that way about the long period of time the Libs have held power.

    Many of you talk about the Middle Class, I am going to suggest to you that it is certainly not the 1% that have given the Liberals a near record if 20 years in power, don’t you think that just a few of the Middle Class and even lower income, and retired people have voted for the Carpet Bagging Liberals over that period of time?

    You are not being very honest with other Bloggers or yourself if you are not willing to recognize that.

    I have said it several times over the past 3 years but the biggest enemies any of we B.C. residents and Tax Payers have are Bloated Government, Government Waste, unsustainable Benefits and Pensions for Public Sector Workers, ever increasing Property Taxes, and Activist Mayors in Cities like Vancouver that want to welcome and host every Drug Addled Convicted Felon from the rest of the Canada, the U.S. and now the World ON the Tax Payer of B.C. and Canada.

    For those of you that are either Industrial, Commercial, or Residential Renters keep in mind that a big part of your Triple Net and or Rent is based on the Property Value and the Mill Rate.

    Your Landlord is not always greedy but they like me get that increase in Property Taxes each year and for the most part it gets passed onto the Renter.

    There is no need for the compounded 2,3,4, or 5% increase inProperty Taxes each year, Municipalities are taking in hundreds of Millions of Dollars more than ever before and they are squandering that Hard Earned Tax Payer Dollars on saving the Homeless and other special Pet Projects of those Activist Mayors.

    Why are MSM not asking the tough questions about this of Provincial Leaders and Municipal Mayors.

    Can anyone that Posts here tell me that will not get worse under an NDP B.C. Provincial Government?

    In closing, I was not a supporter of John Cummings 4 years ago but he did have it correct when he called for each and every Provincial Ministry to find Efficiencies of 2% each year for 3 years. That alone would save a Billion in only a few years.

    Why do we never talk about Efficiencies in Government at any Level?

    Something else for MSM to ask about.

  • 20 Hawgwash // Apr 20, 2017 at 2:40 pm

    I watched the debate as also, well, some of it anyway.

    I watched for 20 minutes, quit, came back after about 10 minutes and gave up completely after maybe another 10 minutes.

    I really want to support the NDP but John Horgan just doesn’t excite me.

    Clark did what she does best; out talk everyone else, including the moderator.

    Lol, give me a break.
    Bill Good did a horrible job.

    He had no control and instead of just asking good questions, he kept injecting himself into the debate. Seems like his old brain still thinks he is a radio host.

    I learned nothing, except Mr. Weaver is easy to listen to.

    Otherwise it didn’t work.

  • 21 nonconfidencevote // Apr 20, 2017 at 4:23 pm

    @#17 Crankypants

    A few weeks ago, As soon as I heard Bill Good was “moderating” I winced and shook my head.
    His YEARS of biased stumping for the Liberals was what drove thousands of listeners away from CKNW. And his painful denials that he was “biased” towards the Liberals.
    Dreadful, biased blowhard.
    He didnt earn his forced retirement.
    He deserved it…..
    A gibbering spastic monkey playing with an egg basket full of hand grenades would have achieved a less disasterous result at moderating his pal Christy and the rest of them.
    I’ll tune in next week when they’re on tv.
    Hopefully Christy’s rankings in the polls will be even lower so she can show what a true incompetant, sputtering harridan she really is.

  • 22 e.a.f. // Apr 20, 2017 at 4:26 pm

    if we voted for what they do for us, one does wonder why so many voted for jean and photo op queen Christy Clark and the B.C. Lieberals. they haven’t done much of anything for the working middle class. Everything pretty much went up and there has been no enhanced protection for tenants. If I were an IPP, mine owner, developer, etc. I’d have done great and would support Christy in a heart beat.

    If we look at it geographically, those in Surrey have kids and not enough schools. it will be interesting to see if she hangs on to some of those ridings given 3 yr old schools have 7 portables and more coming. In an other year or so all those kids will head to high schools which aren’t built yet. if I lived in Osooyos, I wouldn’t be voting jean photo op queen because, hell they closed the high school and only kept it open because its close to election time.
    If I lived in a rural area I don’t get the same health care as those living in urban areas or Kelowna. You don’t have hospitals. If you do its not up to the level bigger centers are. You have to travel for chemo, surgery, etc. and all at your own expense. Not enough paramedics.

    there are tolls which must be a real crowd on family and small business budgets, so no vote there.

    given I have one of those indexed pensions and the inheritance, life is easier for me. However, I resent paying tolls because I’ve already paid a life time of taxes. I resent the MSP. I’ve paid a life time of taxes and the proposed cut off still don’t work. it ought to be based on taxable income. The B.C. Ferries aren’t working for me. They just keep raising the rates, but they get new highways on the mainland. Well those ferries are my highway and the rates have gone up much too fast. On the other hand el gordo did have those ferries built in Germany with loans from German banks, which charged us 10% interest. El gordo would not re structure the B.C. Ferries corp. to be a Crown corp so we could benefit from a 3% interest rate. Then el gordo borrowed $750Million, charged it to the B.C. Ferries corp., put the cash in general revenue and announced a “balanced budget”. right. Liar, liar, liar. So my ferry fares go up and up and up. Nothing to vote for there.

    So yes I’m a leftie, but there isn’t a dam thing the B.C. Ieberals have done to improve anything I care about, which includes kids. I’m O.K. with deficits if kids are benefiting or the disabled, etc. but when its just Christy’s friends benefiting, not so much. The B.C. Lieberals ran up at least a $100 BILLION DEFICIT, that we the average voting taxpayer have not benefited from. Many can not afford the bridges, the Richmond ice oval, etc.

    Christy lied last time, jobs, jobs, jobs. a 100K jobs and a trillion in royalites. what did we get: 8 dead kids, 4 deaths by hospital, one suicide by a health researcher complements of how he and his co workers were treated, and over a $100 BILLION DIFICIT.

    Site C isn’t necessary, never was, but she wanted it beyond the stop point. silly woman. didn’t understand a dam can be stopped at any time. it can be drained, dismantled and the land returned to its original state. as to the jobs lost, just pay all the workers the 3 years of salary and see what they do with it. We’d still save billions.

    Take the tolls off of the Port Mann and Gold Ears and every one could use the bridges without breaking the family bank and we might not have to build a 10 lane bridge to no where. the plans are already drawn up to build a second tunnel at much lower cost. Of course the jean queen and her cabal talked about what if there is an earthquake, wouldn’t you rather be on the bridge. I couldn’t stop laughing. photo op queen refused to bring schools up to code which endangers tens of thousands of children, but worries about a few hundred adults going through a tunnel so we should build a bridge worth billions. Hell fix the schools, more jobs, better for the kids.

    jean photo op queen Christy Clark never could get her priorities straight and the cabal which works with her are just useless. A couple of brighter lights have left, such as Don MacRae and Terry Lake.

    Christy has approx. 24 of Harper’s former staffers working for her. No wonder we look like a mess. Lets send Christy the same place we sent Harper. off to never, never land.

  • 23 Gene The Bean // Apr 20, 2017 at 6:05 pm

    I read time and time again, here and elsewhere, about the “inefficiencies of government” …. usually closely followed by more bloviating about “how we shouldn’t change the government”.

    Am I the only one to see the total hypocrisy in that ?

  • 24 Lew // Apr 20, 2017 at 7:26 pm

    Gordon Campbell’s ex Chief of Staff has an interesting take on what’s being discussed here.

  • 25 BMCQ // Apr 20, 2017 at 9:08 pm

    Some of us may be denial but in Canada we have basically three levels of Government.

    Most of the time we have a Federal Liberal or a Federal Conservative Government.

    Provincially we may have either a Provincial Liberal, NDP, Conservative, Bloc, or one or two other different Parties ruling various Provinces at any one time.

    Municipally we have various Brands under many different Political Banners running different Cities right across the Country.

    For anyone to deny that Cituzens, Residents, and Hard Working Tax Payers do not deserve or should not have better services and EFFICIENCIES at a reasonable cost from Government is unfathomable and frankly moronic!

    Even people I know that work in Government and are part of any given Public Sector Unions admit that Government needs to do better and there are plenty of areas that could be tightened up.

    Whether it be Public, Private, Union, or Non Union, there is always room for improvement.

    I am embarrassed for you.

  • 26 Barry // Apr 20, 2017 at 9:11 pm

    OK Harve, let’s turn it around.

    Since you seem to have such a grip on what will win and what will not, let’s hear your “winning” election platform. Specifics please.

    Who knows, maybe your ideas will get stolen!

    (Response: When parties have all kinds of economists, statisticians and strategists spending YEARS coming up with plans designed to just help/win votes from their “bases” , it’s disingenuous to expect an ordinary voter to come with a full platform to serve the vast middle class … esp just between hockey playoff periods. BUT for starters … LOL … I’d make mortgage interest payments deductible for low and middle wage earners, esp those buying smaller homes/condos … thereby encouraging densification of construction and making housing much more affordable for many; I’d build MSP payments into the income tax scales, so those who earn more, pay more; and, I’d drop all kinds of corporate subsidies, loopholes and writeoffs that have allowed highly profitable industries and companies to use public money to make private profits without ever having to pay almost any of it back. Now back to the game … ho)

  • 27 13 // Apr 21, 2017 at 7:53 am

    Having read hos post and the following 25 comments I am glad that I’m not mid span on the lions gate Bridge.

    My vote will go to the bc libs simply because they are less likely to spend more money on public sector largess.

  • 28 13 // Apr 21, 2017 at 7:58 am

    I wonder if Christy will show up at ckndpw and chat with McComb.

  • 29 Gene The Bean // Apr 21, 2017 at 9:49 am

    Re #27 – when everything else fails, bash unions. How predictable.

    Unions have given ALL OF US

    -reduced work hours and weekends
    -medical leave
    -health and dental coverage
    -fair wages and benefits
    -the end of child labour
    -income equality
    -workplace safety
    -vacations, sick leave and maternity benefits
    -processes to end sexual harassment and bullying in the workplace
    -a voice

    If you think Canada would be a better place without all of these things then there is no hope for you.

  • 30 e.a.f. // Apr 21, 2017 at 11:39 am

    thank you Gene!

  • 31 BMCQ // Apr 21, 2017 at 3:26 pm

    Bean – 29

    I have been a Member of three Unions in my life, Retail Workers, Musicians, and Boilermakers, I have nothing bad to say about any of them.

    My Wife was a Membra of Actra and one other that shall remain nameless and she tells me she was well served.

    My Companies Employees are Unionized and we have forged a great relationship with Bus Agents and Leadership over the years and they have served BOTH the Employees and Company very well. I cannot say anything bad about anyone I have had to deal with the Union, Fair and Balanced, intuitive, thoughtful, and best of all supportive of the Employees as a Whole!

    My Companies pay Health Benefits, Full MSP, RRSP/Pension Contributions and we are very happy, proud, and fortunate enough to do so.

    Please do not tell me I wish to do away with Unions.

    I am simply serious concerned about the cost of and growing Public Sector Benefits and Pensions.

    I did not say “Do Away with them, I said they need to be pulled back and they need to be more practical and affordable for the People of Canada, B.C., and Municipalitues that are already struggling with the high cost of living, Mortgages, Rents, and other day to day costs that are very high in Canada.

    We need to control growth of Government.

    Never have I said that Canada should be without Unions, you are misrepresenting what I have said and I take umbridge with that.

    Only a week or two ago when someone was talking about working conditions and a companies behavior on this Blog I commented in THW following way, “It sounds like a Good reason for that Company and it’s Employees are in need of a Union”.

    I strongly believe in Unions but I also believe that many (not all) Public Sector Unions and their Employees should understand that in many cases Benefits, Vacations, other types of Leave, Pensions, are too rich and in fact unsustainable for the Public Tax Payer, the people that “Foot the Bill”.

    In fact I have Friends and Familythat are and have been Public Sector Workers that fully endorse those concerns.

    Only a week or so Harvey pointed out that he had concern with work ethics and efforts of SOME (again not all) Public Sector Workers and not a “PeeP” from you.

    And you talk about someone being “Hypocritical”?

    Where was your attack on Harvey?

    I do not mean to put words in the mouth of h.o. but please………..!!

    I know it is very difficult to get the facts correct but please………!

    Once again, I am embarrassed for you.

    e.a.f. – 30

    I am surprised.

    (Response: Unfortunately times have changed and there are now too many companies …even those that are doing really well measure profits in the many, many millions …that don’t give their employees more than 32 hours a week…deliberately trying to avoid paying benefits …not only disrespecting their workers, but downloading the costs of taking care of them on the public. Needless to say, employee dedication and loyalty suffers too as a result. But I don’t see anything in any party’s platform that will address those problems. h.o)

  • 32 nonconfidencevote // Apr 21, 2017 at 5:56 pm


    Damn I love this Blog!

  • 33 MightNeedANewPlan // Apr 21, 2017 at 5:58 pm

    I’m a BC teacher. Although there is not much specifically for me in any of the party platforms, the outcome is extremely impactful. If ‘she’ and her ilk get in again, I can be assured that I will have to bring out my “seats of solidarity” (the ugly white plastic Canadian Tire deck chairs) for another round. The education minister has admitted that they will “re-negotiate” with the BCTF to get the class-size and composition language that they had prior to the Supreme Court of Canada decision returned into the contract with teachers.

    I’ve seem them “negotiate”. That’s not at all what I would call it.

    I can’t take another 5 years of this government. If they get in again, I will be taking my chemistry, biology, and education degrees and finding another career or province. Given the decimation I have seen in the quality of public education (curriculum, facilities, investment, and supports) in this province in the last 16 years, students can’t take another 5 years of them either.

  • 34 Gene The Bean // Apr 21, 2017 at 10:43 pm

    What was the name of that Carly Simon song …. ?

  • 35 BMCQ // Apr 22, 2017 at 1:29 am

    Yes, Umbrage

  • 36 13 // Apr 22, 2017 at 9:30 am

    Hello Gene the Bean. Re your list of the great improvements to our work life brought to us by unions. Its a nice list. Its a comprehensive list. Its a knowledgeable list.
    Its a load of bs
    It might describe what the public sector unions have achieved for their members but in the real world where the employer isnt a bottomless pit of tax paying idiots things are different.
    No pensions
    No medical dental long or short term disability
    No sick days
    Forced overtime
    Over time after 9 (not 8) hours. Some contracts no overtime period
    Some Teamster contracts that pay sightly better than minimum wage.
    Im sorry bean but unless you get out of the BCGEU/Cupe/ BCTF world of negotiation with a government that has deep pockets and can just raise taxes to fund their generous collective agreements you cant pontificate on the greatness of the trade union movement.

    (Response: I am allowing your reply…and his rebuttal, if it comes. But getting off topic of the campaign here … British Columbians are not electing union or management reps…at least not directly h.o)

  • 37 13 // Apr 22, 2017 at 10:12 am

    Your dead right Harvey. The fact that the NDP havent held power in BC since the dark ages is due impart to their abandonment of the private sector unions is more on topic. It is obvious that Horgan is willing to bankrupt BC promising many benefits that strong union contracts used to provide their members. He would rather spend tax dollars than promise to make certain that all private sector workers receive the same benefits as public sector workers. Until the NDP look into the mirror and see where they came from I doubt that they will ever form government .
    Looking forward to Jon Mcomb on Monday am. I would chuckle if Christy decided to do a radio interview on CBC at the same time.

  • 38 Gene The Bean // Apr 22, 2017 at 10:58 am

    Thanks Harvey, last post off the topic (by me anyways).

    What people forget is unionism is an AGREEMENT between workers and employers. As with anything, people/companies are stronger when they work together. Unions are not terrorists and only GET what companies feel they can GIVE. It is an AGREEMENT that both sides decide they can live with. Any benefit that unions NEGOTIATED was done with APPROVAL of management. Management AGREES to certain things in exchange for ‘other’ things. Our entire society is so much better off because of unionism. This is a concept any ten year old can understand.

    If some unions do not have the ‘benefits’ that other unions have, that is just an indication of how the process ‘appropriately’ works. If an industry or company can not AFFORD say a company pension plan – that is perfectly OK. Again, it is an AGREEMENT that has to benefit BOTH sides. Any complaints to the contrary is just personal sour grapes.

    Returning to the topic, the current dysfunction in our society could be rectified if governments and voters acted more like unions and companies.

    The voters would ELECT people that would fight for their interests whilst working under the premise that they also run a company (government). Unlike what happens now with the BC Liberals running government like a slush fund for their friends and accomplices, pushing tens of billion$ of debt onto Crown Corps and lying their faces off telling the pliable sheep that vote for them that they have a “balanced budget”. The outright ignorance of some people in falling for that is appalling.

    Anyone that votes for the BC Liberals is essentially suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

  • 39 harry lawson // Apr 22, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    this may be telling in my walks around Langley city the only campaign signs i have seen only seen 3 liberal signs on private property. several on public easements .
    last election there were a lot more signs on private property in my area ,
    the voter turnout will be most interesting

  • 40 Lew // Apr 22, 2017 at 7:00 pm

    The BC Liberals shut the Legislature down early and ran from the drubbing they were taking so fast they didn’t even pass their budget. Given the disgraceful amount of time the Legislature sits each year under Christy Clark, who is on record as saying a sick culture exists there, the action was an insult to the populace and to democracy.

    Now we see a definite strategy by the BC Liberals to skip all-candidates meetings all over the province. They don’t hesitate to use millions of public dollars and millions more from their corporate bedmates to flood the media with ads talking TO and AT the citizenry, but won’t show up to talk WITH them. Another insult to the populace and democracy.

    It’s the political equivalent of “taking the fifth” and voters should be wondering why that would be. Were they just joking when they promised the most open and accountable government in the land? Or are the answers to the questions they face so devastating they‘ve determined the criticism they’ll take for running and hiding is worth the risk?

    I believe the answer is obvious.

  • 41 BMCQ // Apr 22, 2017 at 10:10 pm

    Lookout – 5

    I like your ability to separate facts and basic simple logic from blind ideology.

    People that Post and Read here should pay close attention to what you say.

    New Plan – 33

    If you think things are tough here in B.C. You should take advantage of those “Greener Pastures” in another Province.

    I am quite sure that the NDP Government in Alberta would welcome you.

    What about the Great Liberal Premier if Ontario, I am quite sure you would fit well into the system there.

    I agree it would not be fair to expect you to suffer under another 4 years of the B.C. Libs and their Draconian Rule.

    harry – 39

    I do not think you can tell much by Lawn Signs. Personally I think the Provincial Elections Act should ban the use of Lawn Signs on either Public or Private Premises.

    Lew – 40

    I am away from Canada and have not heard much about All Candidates Meetings but I am going to venture a guess that Liberal Internal Polling shows them they are in a good position and by appearing at some meetings they could put themselves in a position where they could make a mistake that could harm their electability.

    I am not saying it is the right thing to do, we should always be willing to face the Electorate at AC Meetings, I am simply making an observation.

    Election Campaigns have their Strategies and Platforms and they tend to live by what they have planned unless a Campaign takes a turn and then another strategy may be required.

    You may be correct a certain number of the Electorate may not like that strategy and it could harm any Party on Election Day.

    Perhaps we could ask B.C. Premier Adrian Dix about Campaign Strategy, I am quite sure he might have some interesting Commentary.

  • 42 gbvic // Apr 22, 2017 at 10:13 pm

    One Liberal candidate did appear at a meeting this week and received a cool reception. At the meeting wrap-up she jokingly asked that she hoped the audience would clap for her as she was feeling left out.

    (Response: I used to be a great believer in “all candidates meetings” …true opportunity to assess candidates etc. …but let’s keep it real: very few voters can be bothered to attend and almost all of those who do have their minds made up, are usually against whoever is in at the time, and are there to cheer “their” party/candidate and don’t really carefully listen to and impartially evaluate the arguments presented.The time of candidates these days are no doubt much better spent in door-knocking, phone calls, speaking at business or community group luncheons, rallies, announcements. h.o.)

  • 43 Graham Elder // Apr 22, 2017 at 10:39 pm

    Thanks Lew.
    I don’t get what is with these Liberal flunkies here. You are getting ripped off and lied to just like the rest of us. Don’t you see it? Are you so ideologically blind that you will follow them down whatever hole they take you?
    Wake up! The info is out there even from sources you will find acceptable. I am not as politically astute as many of you but I can put a few things together and it’s not good. No matter which way,anyway you cut it,it’s not good.
    You don’t have to like the NDP, but please, for your own sake,stop trying to say the Liberals are the best choice. You are making yourselves look like complete idiots.
    Sit this one out,you are not up to the task.

  • 44 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 6:22 am

    I wonder if technology COULD kill the mike of any CANDIDATE in a DEBATE that speaks OUT of turn.
    You would think it pretty simple . Three debaters , just turn the mikes on ONE at a time.

    Place the debaters far enough away from each other so that we dont have to hear Horgans CRIES of agony should someone touch him.

    Hopefully, CKNDPW manages to protect HORGAN from any unwarranted assaults in a small radio studio.

  • 45 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 7:03 am

    Might need another…..
    I would suspect that if “her and her ilk” get re-elected for another 5 (or perhaps the more popular 4 ) term it might be because the voyers did not agree with the supreme court decision.
    At least you havent decided to take your subsidized degrees in chem,bio,and ed and hightail it to the states.
    The ability to RENEGOTIATE collective agreements is all part of the bargaining process.
    Sooner or later the public sectors will need to return to more sustainable levels of compensation.

  • 46 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 8:11 am

    I spent (wasted) some time this am trying to better understand the $10 a day daycare plan. I didnt have enough time to find out how it would be paid for. 1.5 BILLION per year. (low ball estimate). After reading about early age education I came away with the feeling that the biggest benefit will be the huge increase in public sector workers. I also stand to be corrected but it seems that the plan is designed for families with total income under 40 k per year. So much for helping the middle class.

  • 47 nonconfidencevote // Apr 23, 2017 at 8:43 am

    @#39 Harry

    I’m seeing the same thing in Burnaby. Very few signs for ANY party on private property. And not that many on public property.

    @#40 Lew

    Very well said.

    Oxford Canadian Dictionary:

    Hypocrisy: the assumption of moral standards, principles, etc. to which one’s own behaviour does not conform.
    Hypocrite: A photo of Christy Clark

  • 48 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 9:06 am

    BMCQ comment #25 comment #23 admits he reads over and over again that governments are inefficient then attempts to counter the evidence that he presented in his first paragraph. Odd bit of lodgic
    HOs response to Barry @26
    Harvey your platform seemed straight forward and would benefit many British Columbians. I have to wonder which party would you run for.
    Seems most retired media folk end up as Liberals.

    (Response: Nope…not me. The only thing I will be running for …okay, walking briskly… is my next flight to get to a cruise. But really, people (the political media are largely regurgitating announcements/press conferences) should be asking ALL the parties why is there SO LITTLE in any of their platforms that will IMMEDIATELY and PERMANENTLY help the vast majority of working British Columbians???? h.o)

  • 49 Crankypants // Apr 23, 2017 at 9:54 am

    Lew(#40) brings up an interesting point. Is a budget really a budget if it not passed in the Legislature or just a political party platform? If it is the latter then should the governing party be able to use it as a basis for taxpayer funded advertising such as the one that ran regarding the MSP changes?

    Should the BC Liberal Party be able to refer to a fifth balanced budget if it has not been passed as such?

    Something doesn’t smell right.

  • 50 e.a.f. // Apr 23, 2017 at 11:48 am

    being some what older than the others posting here, I recall when Dave Barrett was elected, I felt the NDP would be elected, the grass on the boulevard on King Ed. between Granville over to Arbutus was covered in NDP signs. that wasn’t NDP territory and given the small budgets they had in those days, it was considered a “waste of money” to put signs up in that area.

    Signs or the lack there of also may be an indicator of the number of volunteers a party has. it takes time to put up signs and B.C. has a lot of aging baby boomers. Its one thing when your under 40 to take your Sat. and pick up truck and put up big signs. its quite another in you late 60s and 70s. to take your smart care or RAV, Honda, etc. and put up those big signs.

    People have less and less time to go get signs to put up.

    People may also see the signs as a waste of natural resources.

    W5 on CTV had an interesting program on last night about the fent. crisis in B.C. It clearly laid out the problem, where it is, how the medical system is trying to deal with it. So while we have this on national televisions, where is our premier and the B.C. Lieberal party on all of this? Haven’t seen the photo op queen out there talking about this one or in that area. No just out there in her jeans and hard hat and smiling and talking and talking and talking. Perhaps social issues don’t matter much in this election, but people might want to remember no one started on skid row as a drug addict. Without services it just will get worse. Ignoring it won’t help. Obviously we haven’t looked at how Portugal took their country from a 10% drug addicted population to only 30 drug deaths a year.

    haven’t heard Christy Clark or her B.C. Lieberals say much of anything about health care, beyond one of her MLAs saying she sees a role for private health care in the province FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT. Yikes,

    A lot of hard hat photo ops but what we really need is a whole lot of paramedics, nurses, doctors. there are going to be a lot of burn outs in some areas and a lot will be retiring. No announced strategy about how we’re going to replace all the aging doctors and nurses from Christy. We know what Horgan plans to do.. What about hospice care? Nothing really there. Can you image a world where people in hospice care still need to make it to their doctor’s offices? No house calls just because you’re dying? if you want treatment for the cancer, you have to leave the hospice and return home where there is no one to look after you? so the choice is stay in hospice care and die or go home if you want treatment, but have no way to get their. haven’t heard a word from the premier and her party on that one.

    We have heard all the ads about how the B.C. Lieberals are going to fund this or that, but really. Once elected would Christy really keep her promises. will those new hire teachers be kept on? will there be improvements for hospitals in crisis? To date there is nothing which has inspired me to trust Christy Clark. the only things she has remained committed to are her financial supporters and Site C. –getting it to the point of no return. Right. Now the report is out that it isn’t a necessary dam and the Glacier News, North Vancouver edition is has an editorial up about not needing that dam and what the $8.8 BILLION could be better spent on. check out the paper or Norm Farrell’s blog which as the editorial.

    (Response You remember going back to Barrett: I remember covering WAC Bennett’s government. Egad!! ;) I’m not sure signs are as indicative as they used to be. There are many new immigrant citizens/voters who are more private and do not like proclaiming their politics publicly… with signs or taking part in polls, as we learned last time. A lot I believe this time will depend on the turnout …and where the expressed Green support actually ends up …read my next blog. h.o)

  • 51 harry lawson // Apr 23, 2017 at 11:48 am

    Lew # 40

    you raise some excellent points. to much is being done by order in council. i truly fear that other tan for ceremonies the legislature will sit empty as tribute to what democracy was.

    BCMQ # 41

    i disagree with you that you cant tell much by signage . signs on private property speaks volume about voter engagement .

    i agree that signage on public easements should be restricted. many restrict vision for moth motorist and pedestrians

  • 52 e.a.f. // Apr 23, 2017 at 11:52 am

    One thing might be nice to see, given the salaries and the $12K a year housing allowance: Having the Leg. sit as if it were a full time job instead of a visiting circus for a couple of months a year. The public in this province would be much better served if those MLAs were all required to sit in the leg. at least 6 months of the year or give up that $12K a year housing allowance. They don’t need it. Its not about the money. Its about the lack of a work ethic. cabinet ministers ought to be required to be in the Leg. at least 6 months out of the year!

  • 53 BMCQ // Apr 23, 2017 at 1:43 pm

    e.a.f. – 51

    I am quite sure I will end up repeating this many more times over the next hopefully long while but here it goes again.

    I have and have had (some succumbed to their Addictiins) several friends and family that were/are Drug Addicted but AGAIN they made Poor Life Style Choices.

    When will People get it through their Heads that Government of ANY Brand is not our keeper!

    Yes Gov can and should provide proper Health Care but we the people must also do our part and not dabble in Drugs that may contain fentanyl or any number of addictive ingredients that cause addiction and one day death, unfortunately with today’s additives sometimes after one so-called misadventure.

    How can anyone continually blame the Libs or the NDP for that?

    Now if your PM Justin were to re-introduce some Mandatory Minimum Sentences legislated by the Harper Conservatives we may have had a basis for optimism in dealing with “Death Dealing” Drug Dealers but we will never see the re_introduction of that Legislation.

    I am away from Canada and on about April 6 I received a rash of Correspondence that my life long John Michael Gamble died. At one time “Mugger” was a productive successful Businessman and former Athlete.

    Many years ago he did the best he could to jam as much of gis company profits up his nose, lost his wife and family, lost his business and ended up addicted to many different Drugs living on the DES. A handful of us did our best but he would not listen. Interestingly enough I thought it would have been a cocktail of Drugs which might have included Fentanyl that may have claimed his life but it was Cancer.

    My Friend John had Drug Problems under both the NDP and the B.C. Liberals.

    I am convinced that we could take Health Care in B.C. And give it 90% of the Provincial Budget and some would still be calling for more Money.

    At best talk of the B.C. Liberals being responsible for every Death that takes place is disengenuous, at worst it is dishonest.

    Of course this is a Federal Issue and Legislation but do you or any other NDP Supporters, or NDP Justice Critic and Caped Crusader Mike Farnworth endorse a Mandatory 10 Federal Sentence with NO Release until the full term for any individual Convicted of selling Over One Ounce of any Drug Including Marijuana that contains ANY amount of Fentanyl?

    If Your PM Justin would have the decency to enact similar Legislation it would create a real Deterrent and we would be on our way to controlling the number of Desths in this Epidemic that will only worsen under current Legislation.

    You may not realize it but Monsters in the Drug trade will on a regular basis lace (add) almost anything they can to Marijuana, Meth, Cocaine, Heroin, or other Drug to provide an extra strong high to encourage the user to eventually seek out a stronger high which turns them to the next more potent high.

    Someone that gets Marijuana laced with a little Meth will become acostomed to that higher high and they end up looking for more and become hopelessly addicted.

    That is why so many young Pot Smokers eventually take the next step on to other Drugs.

    Without Mandatory Minimums for Drug Dealers we will never end the vicious circle of Death and Destruction.

    People like you and the others that talk about Drug Treatment, Housing for Addicts, and everything else you demand will only see the problem grow and intensify unless we force the Feds and eventually the Provinces to enact meaningful Legislation that creates a deterrent.

    Those of you that mumble about how great Drug Legalisation and Treatment in the EU is should actually see what the enablement of Drug Addicts is doing to a whole generation of young people there.

    It is time to wake up. Quite blaming the B.C. Liberals for those of us that end up dead because we make Poor Lifestyle Choices.

    It is a very weak, dishonest, and futile argument.

    harry – 50

    I could be mistaken but some Parties and many individuals have environmental concerns with Election Signage.

    I also believe some Municipalities have By Laws against such Signage, and Many like me started removing Signage off of Properties many Elections ago. That seems to have been a deterrent as Signage has not been seen for several years at my place of business.

  • 54 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 3:21 pm

    If anyone gets a chance please go onto the early education ($10 ) daycare site.
    It says that it will take some time to properly train the new government workers. (In the begining they will allow current daycare providers to join) They envision the daycar workers to be paid $25 per hour with “good” benefits. So lets assume that a facility might have 2 workers at $32 per hour with benefits. Daycare will likely have to 10 to 12 hours per day so overtime will be involved . Daily labor costs could easily amount to $700 per site. At 10 per child were going to need big facitlities. Likely we will need 4 workers per site with some part time.
    The cost of this program will likely make the site c dam look like a bargain.

  • 55 ISLAND LOOKOUT // Apr 23, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    #33 MightNeed…

    OK MightNeed, go ahead leave the province for greener pastures, but where will you go? Are you just an anxious NDP supporter or a spoiled brat with the right,
    unfortunately, to vote?

    Many years ago I remember watching a Vancouver TV news report about a female teacher from the city grousing about her low pay.

    She threatened to move to the US to find a job saying she would make $53k a year there, much better than what she was making in BC.

    Of course, she did not factor in US paycheque deductions, cost of living, lack of good medical and so on.

    I hope she went south to learn a hard lesson but I suggest she chickened out and stayed put. Doing so she was able to vote for the NDP losers in the following election!

    MightNeed will also vote NDP because she’s a teacher and the NDP, when in government, cowtows to teachers in a squeemish, hard-to-look-at fashion. Gives taxpayers, and their empty wallets, the shivers.

    Listen, MightNeed, as I have already written to this space, the rest of us can’t afford your paycheques anymore.

    This also applies to public sector union toilers, everywhere; so much money demanded, and so few of us out there who can afford to pay those contracts.

    At some point this game will stop. It has to.

    For proof at what may come, look at today’s voter outcome in France, for the next president.

    Either centrist M. Macron or hard right-winger Marine LePen will lead the next French government.

    France, one of the most heavily unionized of countries, now faces fiscal/monetary austerity on a grand scale as a result. Militant French unions will be facing their Waterloo, finally.

    Also, those two candidates, remaining for the May 7th runoff election, are NOT French Insiders. They are outsiders.

    And the French elites are in a dead-stick-landing panic. This is another iteration of Trumpism and Brexit.

    Thank your blessings, all of them, especially given the war noises emnanating from the Koreas.

  • 56 noneck // Apr 23, 2017 at 5:57 pm

    13 -#54

    So let me track this logic:

    Site C (water + turbines = electricity) is a bargain.

    Childcare (kids + government workers = lost money) is a waste.

    That says a lot. Better to vote for a commodity than an opportunity for a resourceful life.

  • 57 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 23, 2017 at 7:01 pm

    13, I’m not sure which site you’re referring to but in the NDP’s platform at, there’s no talk of exact wages.

    It does say, “The quality of the system depends on Early Childhood Educators. They must be well-educated, respected and fairly-compensated.”

    An Early Childhood certificate requires a 4-semester course, so you can bet they would need to be properly compensated for paying for the course and taking themselves out of the work force for that long to get the training. $25.00/hr + benefits sounds very reasonable. They are not simply “baby-sitters”… they provide a valuable service in child development.

    I disagree that there would be overtime needed. With proper planning, you’d start some staff early and have others finish later. Not all parents work on the same schedule, so the staffing could be fluid, as it is at my grandsons’ daycare.

    The positive impact of affordable daycare is spelled out in the NDP platform:
    “According to the Centre for Spatial Economics, an independent re- search firm, the $10 a day plan would create a two per cent – or $5.79 billion – increase to provincial GDP by the time it is fully implemented. This increase is more than three times what it will cost the BC government to implement the plan.”

    We should remember that the province has been providing free daycare for age 5 to 18 for over a century… through public education. Not to minimize the value of the education the students get — but the daycare component cannot be denied; teachers are certainly reminded of this whenever they dare to go on strike.

  • 58 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 23, 2017 at 7:04 pm

    13, ah… now I see it:

    “Over time, the workforce will transition towards a bachelor’s degree. Wages will also increase to an average of $25 per hour, with improved benefits.”

    If a bachelor’s degree is (eventually) expected, we can expect to compensate the worker for it — and expect extra quality in the care/teaching provided.

    Works for me.

  • 59 Lew // Apr 23, 2017 at 7:42 pm


    I wonder if you could explain where you get your “low ball” estimate of $1.5 billion per year for $10/day childcare? The NDP platform says $175 million for partial 2017/18, $280 million for 2018/19 and $400 million for 2019/20. I haven’t heard anyone challenge those estimates. The platform also lays out where the money will come from, and although some have challenged that aspect, even the two consultants the BC Liberals hired to find the massive crater Christy Clark paid them to find didn’t quibble with the estimates. So if you could point me to the source for the numbers you’ve come up with I’d appreciate it.

    BTW, those handpicked consultants seem to have a bit of a problem with objectivity (in addition to spelling):

  • 60 BMCQ // Apr 23, 2017 at 8:41 pm

    If anyone believes that so-called $ 10.oo Day Care is manageable, affordable, and will not turn into ANOTHER “Bloated Cesspool” of Bureaucratic Bungling and Public Sector Largess might want to bet against Macron or Le Pen winning the French Run-Off Election.

    Come on Lew you know better than most here when “Higher Purpose People” that promise you a Program might cost up to $400 Million Dollars it translates into at least 3 times that by the time the Smoke Clears. Tell me when just once it turned out to be within ‘Budget Estimates, Please!


    I do not care whether it is the NDP or the Libs but I believe it is most important we somehow do away with Tolls over the next handful of years.

    Not too long ago I was in favor of the often discussed average of $1.00 per crossing for Sea to Sky, Port Mann, Golden Eagles, the Massey /Bridge and a few others.

    I Then learned that the Technology Apparatus on the Golden Eagles and other new Roadways and Crossings that are erected require replacement every 5 years or so at a cost of up to $10 Million Dollars and then Someone drove me by the Gargantuan Trek Building in Coquitlam which has about 300 Public Sector Workers dealing with the business of Tolling.

    We do not require $ 10.00 a Day Daycare and we do not require Tolls or The Bloated Bureaucracy of Treo, the Tax Payers if B.C. Have enough to contend with!

    Lew – you always ask me to explain myself and you must admit I answer the question each and every time.

    I now ask you a question or two, or anyone else for that matter.

    Do you honestly believe that $ 10.00 Day Care will come in anywhere Estimates?

    G. BARRY just pointed out the very scary truth of the actual Wages, salaries and benefits of the Day Care Boondoggle, frankly it frightens the Hell out of me!

    I would not be surprised to see that number turn out to be Ober $ 1 Billion or more over a very few years.

    And can you honestly say that that same Day Care will be a benefit to the Economy? Really?

    Oh, and one more, I am still waiting, who would you seriously propose as Finance Minister in an NDP Cabinet?

  • 61 13 // Apr 23, 2017 at 9:31 pm

    Lew I got the low ball from their own web site. They fully expect costs to rise because of the need. I am no expert but the more I read “their own” web site the more I worried about the cost.
    No Neck
    I dont think site c is a bargain
    I do think that paying government workers and the ensuing benefits is to expensive.
    Furthermore the parameters are not very fair to hard working families that earn a modest combined income of $80,000. Why should they not be part of this government financed baby sitting program?
    Instead of creating another enormous public sector program give people a tax credit on child care tied to their income level .

  • 62 r // Apr 23, 2017 at 10:14 pm

    And the politicians do nothing

  • 63 Marge // Apr 24, 2017 at 6:46 am

    @Island Lookout Many teachers did leave the province including my own daughter. The province of BC missed out on a wonderful music teacher thanks to Christy Clark. The real losers in all of the machinations of Clark whether it be when she shredded contracts as Education Minister or wasted millions and millions of YOUR tax dollars (that you don’t seem to care about one whit) in court fighting a losing battle were the kids and the taxpayers. Shame on you for attacking a teacher. It should be Christy Clark.

  • 64 Hawgwash // Apr 24, 2017 at 6:54 am

    “Little in promises…”
    Promises made, promises broken and promises undeliverable.

    This past year we have seen a growing rejection of self-serving, lying politicians with poltergeist promises.

    The Brits, Yanks and Canadians showed their contempt at the polls. Canadians were sick of Harper and are already starting to wake up with a Trudeau hangover.

    Here in BC, for the first time, I am starting to sense a shift from left right, party loyalty to a common disgust with Christy Clark. I’m hearing less fear of NDP, less bravado for the Libs and a watchfulness of the Greens. Over and over I hear ugly words used to describe the premier and her BS. It has taken 4 years for people to realize that LNG, prosperity and 100,000 jobs was a flim flam.

    Push back is the word of the day.

    Will it make a difference on May 9th? Hard to tell, but I do believe Christy will be gone, based on how many “Liberals” I know who are fed up. Will it be an Alberta style rout? I doubt that. Probably an interesting threesome but nothing’s off the table.

    As an aside, I see the blogosphere having an influence this time around. I understand numbers for “followers” are up across the board and if Laila Yuile is any indication, there is a whole new crowd of engaged people.

    THAT is good to see.

  • 65 Hawgwash // Apr 24, 2017 at 8:46 am

    BMCQ at 60.

    “Lew – you always ask me to explain myself and you must admit I answer the question each and every time.”

    In spite of everything else, I still enjoy your sense of humour.

  • 66 Lew // Apr 24, 2017 at 8:49 am


    Who are you talking about when you say “their own website”?

  • 67 BMCQ // Apr 24, 2017 at 8:49 am

    I have lived in Vancouver my whole life and like many on this Blog I obviously have many friends and family that live in B.C.

    I DO NOT know one traditional B.C. Liberal Voter that is going to change their Vote to either NDP or Green this time around.

    I also DO NOT know one traditional NDP Voter that is going to change their Vote to either B.C. Liberal or Green this time around.

    They key to this current Election can be found in which Party is able to get out their Voting Base the best and the other factor that may be important is if the Undecided Voter decides to bteak in a big way to any given Party.

    As to the Blogs, from what I see the other Blogs in B.C. Are designed to vilify the B.C. Liberals and virtually contributor on those other Blogs regurgitate NDP talking Points and are very unwelcoming to a contrary point of view or B.C. Liberal Supporter like me and every single one of you are aware of that.

    At least on this Blog Harvey makes the effort to maintain a Fair and Balanced Forum that allows different points of view and we should all respect and admire that.

    Why would someone like me venture over to an NDP Anti B.C. Liberal /Bashing Blog?

    Ask yourself, how much fun or thought provoking discussions could be had if the discussion was all ONE WAY?

    As to the Blogosphere having an influence this time around?

    Only in the land of Norm and Laila.

    Imagine running a Country like those and other ones sided Blogs, no differing opinions, no opposition, no argument, discussion, no debate?

    What do you really have on those other Blogs without opposing voices and opinions?

    Sort of like Princeton Students shouting down Condoleezza Rice when she appeared to speak, sort of like U of C at Berkeley banning ANNE Coulter yet any of those Schools would and did welcome Ahdmadinijad of Iran Infamy and Killer of Gays and Religious Minorities to speak and actually do a question and answer period.

    Yes sure the other Blogosphere is Listening, as long as you are in Line with them.

  • 68 Lew // Apr 24, 2017 at 10:35 am


    The Site C dam is pegged by the BC Liberals at $8.8 billion and a growing number of independent experts who have looked at the project say two things. The demand doesn’t support it, and the resale of the power produced will be at a loss.
    There are many more such reviews and warning signals. The public should be concerned. If as you say the project will actually come in at over 3 times as much ($26.4 billion), it should be outraged, to say the least. I’m already there, but that’s just me.

    The NDP childcare plan platform sets out an estimated cost, and a rationale as to how it may actually benefit the overall economy financially. I’m not naïve enough to think the costs won’t rise. But I’m also not convinced the numbers will rise to the catastrophic levels that some pull out of a warm dark spot on their posterior because it isn’t a BC Liberal initiative. In that regard, it’s grating to see Christy Clark crowing about the strong economy and fantastic job growth in BC and then when asked about the poor supports in BC for the disadvantaged her answer is she’ll get to that when the economy improves. In any case if your solution, like hers, is to do nothing, I don’t agree with it.

    Apparently an ongoing and demonstrable waste of billions doesn’t bother you a bit when it serves BC Liberal cronies, but assisting children and families scares the hell out of you despite no actual analysis or numbers to support your terror.

    As for Finance Minister possibilities, why are you still waiting? I suggested in response to your query on a previous post that Bruce Ralston is capable and comes with qualifications every bit as good as Mike de Jong. Or Kevin Falcon or Colin Hansen when they were handed the post for that matter.

  • 69 Lew // Apr 24, 2017 at 12:46 pm

    @BMCQ #67:

    Here are links to the last two posts at Norm’s site. The first is about AltaGas, a big BC Liberal supporter, and the IPP deal it has with BC Hydro. There are many of these with other producers, and BC Hydro is blowing billions of dollars by acquiring power it doesn’t need, which must then be resold at a loss. Those billions are going to big corporations with strong BC Liberal connections, and Hydro is putting it on our credit card. We will never get it back. The second is an editorial in the North Shore News about Site C.

    You needn’t venture into Norm’s site if you don’t feel comfortable there (although you will find him eminently fair should you wish to do so). These recent posts relate to the current election and this thread on Harvey’s blog, where you apparently feel comfortable.

    Have at them.

  • 70 e.a.f. // Apr 24, 2017 at 1:55 pm

    Yes, Harvey, I’m that old! Not only remembered the election, but got to vote. Heard about the win while in VGH and managed to get to a phone and phone home to ask if it was true. they held the phone out and the noise were the neighbours celebrating like it was New Year’s eve. That was the first time in 10 days I’d made it out of a bed. it was another 2 weeks before I was able to leave VGH.

    BCMQ. we are never going to agree on the drug issue. We have however agreed on the toll issue. We’re making progress.

    Child care, we need a better system. $10 a day for every one may not be realistic, but it has to change and fast. Children are our future. Quality day care ought not to be for those who can afford it only.

  • 71 MightNeedANewPlan // Apr 24, 2017 at 2:55 pm

    @Marge (63)

    I’m sorry about your daughter having to leave. We lost one of our district’s talented and experienced music teachers to the private sector and another to the Yukon. We have also lost an amazing Principal and English teacher to Turkey, and we have lost many promising student teachers to the Yukon, Alberta, South Korea, Egypt, Singapore, and The Philippines. Still others left the profession entirely, never to return.

    We never lose the lazy teachers. They will stick it out and hang on until full pension, handing out the same worksheets and multiple choice tests from 20 years ago.

    We lose the ones who care and the ones who work hard for students. They are also the specialist teachers who are in demand elsewhere. The end result will be a shortage of qualified math, science (especially chemistry and physics), French Immersion, and mechanics teachers in BC. We already are experiencing these shortages.

    I guess BC students don’t need to learn any of those things anyway.

  • 72 BMCQ // Apr 24, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    Hawg – 65

    Ever since the day you accused me of making “Tin Foil” Hats out of the Aluminum Foil from a Mr. Mikes Baked Potato I knew you had great respect for me.

    I feel a great kinship to you!

    (Edited…totally off topic)

    I am in the camp of doing Site “C” now rather than later, what do we do, wait until say 8 years from now when demand for more power is here, or do we plan ahead?

    I will never convince you but do you not find it rather odd that support or non support of projects like this always fall along Political Lines?

    I do have concerns why Governments of any Brand are such poor Negotiators and cannot seem to get a Fixed Cost with a reasonable contingency on Major or all Projects for that matter. The VICTORIA Bridge comes to mind as well as some others.

    I do support “C” but I want to know more about Massey Bridge, the Foundation, the potential Oak St. Bridge Bottleneck, and the possible Twinning of the Tunnel.

    I would like to see some kind of at grade Sky Train from White Rock run between the Lanes going each direction to the new Tunnel/Bridge that would tie into the Canada Line. That would possibly eliminate the Oak St. problem as the Sky Train would be much more attractive than a Car to commute from South of the current Tunnel.

    The land between the two directions of Traffic on Hwy 99 would be at no cost and there would be no requirement for an Elevated System until it went under or over the River and then back to grade until the hook up with the Canada Line.

    A system like this would serve generations and it would be much cheaper.

    Yes, you did mention Ralston, I had been outside doing Environmental Research in the Hot Sun at 102 F that day and I thought I was Hallucinating when you mentioned Ralston as Finance Minister.

    My apologies.

    Please give me until the 2021 Election before you force me to give into the what now seems silly to me $10,00 Day Care Program.

    As you are Quebec use the B.C. Equalization Program to pay for theirs and it is a Failed Program and about to be cancelled. Remember
    For some ODD and UNKNOWN reason B.C. Is perhaps One if only Two ‘Have” Provinces in all of Canada, or are we the only one now in existence?

    Imagine that!

  • 73 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 25, 2017 at 12:17 am

    BMCQ at 67 “Imagine running a Country like those and other ones sided Blogs, no differing opinions, no opposition, no argument, discussion, no debate?”

    The strength of Harvey’s site is the wide spectrum of viewpoints shown.

    The strength of Norm Farrell’s site is the data and graphs. I don’t know why BC Liberal supporters almost never make a comment on Norm’s site — but I strongly suspect it’s because he hasn’t left them a leg to stand on.

    If people see holes in his data and conclusions, they should say so… but they don’t.

    (Response: Weird I am … I actually ENJOY the discussions …even those who disagree with my own point of view (wrong as they are!) h.o)

  • 74 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 25, 2017 at 9:10 am

    BMCQ @ 67

    “I also DO NOT know one traditional NDP Voter that is going to change their Vote to either B.C. Liberal or Green this time around.”

    Perhaps you know some of the folks in this twitter exchange hosted by Paul Doroshenko

    As Paul says, “The BC Liberals really abandoned the centre which is where I remain. I didn’t change so much. They shifted toward cronyism.”

  • 75 Lew // Apr 25, 2017 at 9:52 am

    You haven’t responded to my question at #66, which I asked to ensure I hadn’t missed something in the NDP platform or on some other site that you’d seen leaving the $1.5 billion as the net cost to taxpayers. So I’m going to assume when you say “their own website” you mean this one.

    The plan, as espoused by the Coalition of Child Care Advocates of BC and endorsed by a very wide body of organizations and cities across BC envisions a 10-year build-up to the $1.5 billion you cite. The NDP platform also endorses the plan and provides stable funding on an incremental basis for the first three years.

    What you haven’t mentioned or factored into your analysis is the other crucial piece, which includes studies that indicate the plan will induce economic activity that will offset those costs, and pay for itself.

    Now, even if the costs are somewhat higher, and the benefits somewhat lower, which is the worst-case scenario, the total financial cost to the taxpayer would be absolutely nowhere near the $1.5 billion per year figure you cite. And our kids and grandkids, not to mention our general society, would benefit greatly in other ways.

    Why wouldn’t we do it?

  • 76 BMCQ // Apr 25, 2017 at 12:05 pm

    G Barry – 73

    You can think that Liverals have no “Leg to Stand On” if you wish that is your choice.

    Your comment brings back memories from the U.S. Campaign when “Soon to Be” President Hillary spoke about the Repblican “Deplorables”.

    You can choose to “Spin” as you wish but Conservative Thinkers are not going to get a good reception on those other Blogs discussed.

    I am fully confident in what I have so far accomplished in life and feel quite confident about my future, I simply want to participate on a Blog like this that has a Blog Master like Harvey and a majoority of Bloggers that like him enjoy the give and take, the argument, discussion , and debate you and others like NonCon, Lew, e.a.f., 13, DBW, and MOST others also enjoy.

    In my opinion I do not see that welcome on those other Blogs.

    Having said that you may be correct, B.C. Liberals may all be Morons or Deplorables, Care nothing about facts, graphs, stats, and not have a “Leg to Stand On”, perhaps we are all just far too easily duped!

  • 77 BMCQ // Apr 25, 2017 at 12:26 pm

    G Barry – 74

    I am very familiar with Doroshenko and I have absolutely no respect for him or what he represents.

    Take a few minutes and research what he has attempted to do with his crusade against Drunk Driving Legislation in B.C. Abf. then put yourself in the position of having a Loved One Killed by a Drunk Driver.

    Secondly, Your friend Doroshenko would not know what “Hard Right” was if ran over him in a Marked Crosswalk!

    You actually agree with him when he accuses the B.C. liberals of being “Hard Right”?

    If that is the case you have lead a very sheltered life.

    For some odd reason or reasons your friend Doroshenko has a Bee in his Ambulance Chasing Hat and he seems to consider himself a Crusader against everything Christy or B.C. Liberal.

    I leave him to it and wish him Luck but please do not think that I would ever be swayed by anything he might say on any given day.

    He may be doing his best to position himself for a future Political Contest who knows, or perhaps he covets the Spotlight, who knows, but in my World he is no bigger than a Nit on a Nat”.

    Having said that, I am quite sure that he could very well be a “Legend in his own Basement”!

    “Hard Right”, My Ass!

  • 78 e.a.f. // Apr 25, 2017 at 12:35 pm

    Lew might have a point there, the Site C dam is going to cost at min. $9 billion, so take the money and we could have decent child care for all for 9 years. Don’t build the 10 lane bridge to nowhere and we’d get another 4 years of child care. Cancel the contracts with the IPPs for power and save that 7 cents per k and we’d have even more money. If you want to spend money on something you will find the funds somewhere. Its just you have to stop spending in other areas.

    Christy Clark is like a teenager with a charge card which a lot of other people have to pay for and she doesn’t. Its time we had a government which will make decisions about the provincial budget which makes sense because all Christy has done is run up the charge card to its almost max. of over a $100 billion. others say its even larger, more like a $150 billion. No other B.C. government has ever run up debts like that. Its time to take the charge card away from the immature child we refer to as the premier of B.C.

  • 79 BMCQ // Apr 25, 2017 at 12:56 pm

    Lew – 75

    Consider me closed minded or hypocritical but I have always been skeptical about any study that comes from the almost Marxist like Centre for Policy…… Group. At one time i made an effort to try to read some of their Reports but eventually some of their stuff became so crazy that I had to start treating it like it was “Kryptonite”.

    Unfortunately I live in a world where My Company is required to make a Profit and if I do not I lose the ability to look after Employees, Family, and pay Taxes if all different types.

    I am also highly suspicious of the Study that tells me that The Public will soon see Great Benefuts from another Layer of Bureaucrats and Public Sector Workers that will soon see the cost Explode and Balloon to what somewhere between 1 or 2 Billion or……… More? Yikes!

    That is much more than this “Deplorable” is willing to accept at this time.

    Call me out if you will Lew but with all due respect I cannot feel comfortable with a gaggle of Reports commissioned by those specific “Special Interests”!

    Surely you must think that “Child Care Advocates” and the rest might be just a little bit biased in their opinions and conclusions, just a bit?

    If $10.00 Daycare can be a Benefit to our Province I would like your Friend Seth provide a more recent Study that could show the “Great Unwashed” of B.C. Just how successful the Universal Free Day Care has worked for and benefitted the Province and People of Quebec.

    Once we review that information we in B.C. Would Have a little more information to digest before we come to any conclusions.

  • 80 BMCQ // Apr 25, 2017 at 2:27 pm

    Sorry Lew, Forgot to mention that the Quebec Universal $ 7.00 per day Child Care Bureaucracy is costing that Province somewhere about $ 3 Billion Dollars per year at this time.

    One might think that interesting number might give us in B.C. Something aspire to duplicate in only a year or two.

    I am sure the Tax Payers are looking forward to that!

    I wonder why not one Intrepid Reporter from any Media Outlet has asked Horgan or any of his Minions anything about the Quebec Child Care Program and if they wish to duplicate that here in our Province.

  • 81 Lew // Apr 25, 2017 at 5:00 pm


    Quebec supports about 225,000 spaces. BC might reach half that number by 2020 if the plan is fully implemented. So right off the bat we’re back to the $1.5 billion we’ve been discussing. But again you ignore this:

    “…past research has shown a significant return on Quebec’s investment in subsidized day-care. Some 70,000 more mothers participating in the workforce had contributed an additional $5 billion to GDP by 2008. A 2012 study by three renowned Quebec taxation experts from the Universite de Sherbrooke found that each $100 of day-care subsidy paid out by the Quebec government generated a return of $104 for itself and a windfall of $43 for the federal government.

    As for intrepid reporters, here’s one You might also note in the story 74% support for the plan.

    By the way. I was going to ignore your response at #72 as confirmation of Hawgwash’s opinion at #65 (which it is), but the more I think about it I won’t let you get away with the part concerning Bruce Ralston. You challenged all readers here to put forth candidates John Horgan might appoint to cabinet. I suggested it might be reasonable to expect the individuals in the shadow cabinet would be good candidates. That wasn’t good enough for you, and you tossed out the challenge again. I listed several positions and candidates. No response, until you announced you were still waiting, specifically for Finance.

    Now, I took the time to review the bios of potential NDP appointees and compared them with BC Liberal appointees past and present. I came to the conclusion that many NDP candidates are every bit as qualified as the BC Liberals at the time they were appointed and suggested Bruce Ralston could handle Finance. I happened to have followed through Hansard his performance as Chair of the Select Standing Committee on Public Accounts on two files of specific interest to me, among other things.

    Your response? “I had been outside doing Environmental Research in the Hot Sun at 102 F that day and I thought I was Hallucinating when you mentioned Ralston as Finance Minister.”

    After the way you kept demanding a nomination, you owe us more than that. What specifically precludes Bruce Ralston from the post? What demonstrable shortcomings does he have that set him apart from Kevin Falcon, Colin Hansen, or Mike de Jong?

  • 82 BMCQ // Apr 25, 2017 at 9:45 pm

    Lew – 81

    First of all I am very well aware that when you research anything you take the time to do it properly, you are thoughtful and do your best to not “Spin” and I respect that very much. As a matter of fact I am quite confident that the vast majority that read and post on this Blog value your very important contributions each and every day you post.

    I am not too familiar with Ralston other than to say I have seen and heard interviewed a handful of times and I came to the conclusion he was somewhat awkward and a poor communicator, not a trait I would want in a Finance Minister.

    The commentary about the Heat was in fact true and I was outside all day and when I posted that. The bit about Environmental Research referred to a Round Of Golf, an attempt to be funny and a cheap shot at Ralston who I find to be a poor communicator.

    When you say it I accept what you have stated and I accept what you say about Ralston, Hansen, and the rest.

    Full disclosure here, when de Jong was running for Leader against Falcon, Christy, and the rest I thought he was a Moron (my words) to suggest that Children of 16 should get the Vote in B.C.. There you go.

    As to the Quebec Child Care Stats, obviously Population differences must be taken into account but the fact is it is still problematic for Quebec, it may be cut way back or even done away with and it is my personal opinion before we anything here in B.C. We must wait to see what happens with NAFTA, the soon to be Mass Migration of Deportable Criminal /Felons headed our way from the U.S., Refugees from other parts of the Wirld, Brexit, a possible Frexit, the soon to be total collapse of the EU, the Euro, the about to be 10 years of unmanageable Federal Canadian Debt and Deficits, the problems with the CAD, and the potential problem with the price of Oil.

    As I stated, let us please wait until the next B.C. Election before we venture down that Rabbit Hole.

    Again, I personally appreciate that you take the time to research and provide intelligent and thoughtful commentary on so many subjects on this Blog.

    Believe it or not I can be somewhat opinionated I always have a full day and sometimes i can be impatient so in turn that can sometimes bring a sarcastic comment, I mean no harm and most of the time I am not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings.

    You must admit that I do “Draw a lot of Fire” on this Blog, I have always been competitive and I like to win, and sometimes I “Fire Back”.

    I hope you remember that I did point out that we in B.C. like other Provinces have wonderful, intelligent, and talented Professional Civil Servants that have for decades guided Elected Politicians through the Daily Duties in the Legislature.

    I am quite sure that they would serve an NDP Government just as well, I only hope that we do not see that happen for at least another generation.

    I hope I have cleared a few things up, please keep up the good work, we all appreciate what you do here, regardless of our Political Brand.

  • 83 G. Barry Stewart // Apr 26, 2017 at 11:34 am

    BMCQ at 77: if you won’t take Dorshenko as a traditional BC Lib voter who has turned away, perhaps Martyn Brown?

    His despising of all things CC is palpable. Here’s a list of some of his latest. (Length warning! Brown might get paid by the word.)

  • 84 BMCQ // Apr 26, 2017 at 4:02 pm

    G. Barry – 83

    I do read Brown and listened a bit to his CKNW/CKNDP Segments but he seemed to vanish.

    Not sure what his game is but Brown like John McComb seem to have a real Hate for Premier Christy.

    I am sure there is some kind of History between Premier CC and both of them but we may never know what that happens to be.

    Personally I am always suspicious why and how anyone can go Polar Opposite in their Political Ideology in only a few years, makes no sense to me.

    Others may jump on the McComb and Brown Bandwagon but personally I will not be taking that ride.

    I just do not see any benefit in voting for any the alternative Party.

    But what did I ever know?