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NDP Budget … Just FIRST Shoe to Drop

September 13th, 2017 · 57 Comments

We will have to wait until February to find out what the FULL NDP plans are for BC’s future …and how/who are going to pay for it all.

This week’s 2017 Budget “update” was just the start … Phase 1 of the government’s overall plan …. but as such, it DID vary from the normal tradition of first budgets that have historically haunted BC after each new election.

Traditionally, governments of every political strip hit electors with all kinds of tax and fee increases soon after being elected … all part of a grand design to generate the income to not only pay for promises … but also set up a surplus they can reveal just before the next election … to prove how wonderfully they have governed and fund a whole new set of election campaign promises.

Of course, if re-elected, they overtax us again and boost/introduce new fees once more… repeating the cycle all over again.

(Interestingly, this past provincial election, the BC Liberals did the first part …. building up an “extra” $2 Billion surplus … but tried something different:   instead of revealing the bulging bank account at the start of the campaign and then handing out lots of goodies, they held it back and tried a more conservative  “times are tough … stay the course” campaign.   And we all saw how that turned out!)

The NDP’s first Budget also breaks the usual mold.

Yes, there was an announced hike in tax rates for those earning over $150,000 a year, and a 1% corporate tax boost,  but that won’t affect … or upset ….the majority.

But unlike previous first Budgets, there IS a lot of spending … and benefits for at least some of their base:

A $681 million boost in education spending over the next three years; a $100/month boost for welfare and disability recipients; $291 Million to build modular housing over the next two years for the homeless;  an increase in health care spending to $19.56 Billion for 2018-2019; another $322 Million over three years to fight the fentanyl epidemic; some $490 Million to do away with bridge tolls; and MSP Premiums will be cut in half next year.

All this will eat up not only the $2 Billion surplus the Liberals left behind … but about $700 Million more.

No wonder Finance Minister Carole James left out other NDP-promised really BIG ticket items:  $10-a-day childcare; the $400 renters’ rebate program; details of how a disability bus pass program will work; and, no word on when MSP Premiums will be completely eliminated.

AND …most importantly …not a word about HOW all these other key promises will be paid for …. if they ARE introduced in the NDP’s FULL fiscal budget next February.

Ahhh! That’s when the second shoe will drop!

The most interesting challenge? That loudly and proudly championed NDP campaign promise of $10 daycare: February will reveal whether the government or the Greens (who do not favour that plan) blink … in what could open up the first crack in their  tenuous alliance.

So enjoy the party now … because in February, the bill will come in … and no doubt all those tax and fee increases that have become a post-election BC tradition will finally  be revealed.

And allow the NDP government … just like its predecessors …rake in billions extra to finance their promises , and restore BC political tradition the next time around.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts of all new postings on this blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam …just First Alerts of new postings. )

Tags: British Columbia

57 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Gene The Bean // Sep 13, 2017 at 8:30 am

    I don’t see the ‘doom and gloom’ that you do Harvey.

    Would anyone here really object to paying the cost of a case of beer to:
    -properly start to fund PUBLIC education?
    -give the chronically poor and challenged a few more bucks a month?
    -some housing for the homeless?
    -start actually doing something about opioids?
    -reduce MSP premiums?
    -get rid of the corporate welfare of bridge tolls?

    C’mon, I know a few of you are Harperite Neo-Cons and love to grind your heel into the throat of the less fortunate (you already have yours – so screw them, right?) and if you haven’t already figured it out – I don’t give a rats petunia about you or what you think.

    You don’t get something for nothing folks.

    If you want your current tax contributions to go to multi-national companies and support corporate welfare – vote for the LIEberals.

    If you want to contribute just a little more but live in a “proper” society that reflects true Canadian values, then vote NDP.

    You see what the evolution of ‘conservatism’ is becoming in the Excited States of ‘Murica. The proud flag bearers of conservatives, the GOP and Donald Trump – hahahaha. Racist bigots that cant wait to screw over the poor and sick. That is your future – you must be so proud.

    You can continue to try and make it work here, but it wont.

    I look forward to having corporations and the rich pay more and I will gladly contribute a little more to my contribution as well.

    Next time you see some filthy dirty ‘down and outer’ leaning against a lamp post mumbling to himself ask yourself if society should help contribute to stopping people from getting into that state – – or should we just “stay the course” and contribute to some CEO purchasing a second vacation home in Hawaii. Then have a nice long look at yourself in the mirror…..

    (Response: Where did you get the “doom and gloom”? I didn’t criticize the tax increases on the wealthy…just reported them. I didn’t criticize the failure to introduce daycare, renters grant etc …just reported them. And I predicted we will see those in some form when the full budget comes down in Feb …and then, the government will have to explain HOW we pay for it. My blog is NOT Pravda or Fox News or the official NDP or Liberal site: it’s keeping real! And if you see reality as “doom and gloom”, that’s your problem, not mine. h.o)

  • 2 Diverdarren // Sep 13, 2017 at 9:58 am

    Harvey, you’re absolutely right, if the GreeNDP want to fulfil their election promises they will definitely need to get some more cash in the pot. But I don’t think they’ll get it with tax increases.

    I’d bet BC is going back to deficit spending. Horgan will take a page from the Trudeau playbook and borrow what he wants, and send the bill to the children and the children’s children.

    As the Bean said, “live in a “proper” society that reflects true Canadian values”. For Bean proper society must mean one that spends more than it makes, and just put the cost on the future taxpayer.

    The Bean must think it’s a Canadian value to be a debt burdened deadbeat.

    Harvey, the Bean, me and everybody on this blog will be long gone before the bill comes due so that we can live in a “proper” society today that we can’t afford. If laying our debt on the backs of our children isn’t the essence of a “I have mine… So screw the next guy” attitude, I don’t know what is.

    (Response: It certainly will be interesting to see what happens to the deficit/debt over the NDP term. Some of their promises are very expensive, and they can only raise taxes/fees so much … I hope! The debt increased during the term of the Liberals, which was supposedly friendly to investment … so it will be fascinating to see if/what the NDP/Greens do to attract investment to mitigate any program cost increases. h.o)

  • 3 Gene The Bean // Sep 13, 2017 at 10:49 am

    Diverdarren – I have never agreed with or supported pushing debt onto future generation and have railed against that many times on this blog.

    If, and it is a big IF, we can get rid of cronyism and corporate welfare in government and make everyone pay their fair share, there will be enough money.

    Do you think the BC LIEberals were “good” money managers? Do you think over a billion dollar$ in overruns and “extra costs” for things like the convention centre, BC Place roof, port mann etc etc etc were just “accidents – or more corporate welfare? Maybe 30 Billion Dollars for the entire IPP scam once the dust settles…. that sure is good fiscal management isn’t it?

    Do you think it is a good idea that Nestle pays $2.25 for a million litres of OUR water so they can sell it back to us for $1.25 a litre?

    Do you think ‘we’ can do better? I do. Get rid of the waste and run government for the people.

    Is this current reiteration of the NDP the people to do it? I am not sure. But I will give them a chance and wish them luck.

    It sure beats being kneecapped by the morally bankrupt right.

  • 4 Diverdarren // Sep 13, 2017 at 12:57 pm

    Bean, I don’t think BC provincial governments have ever been good fiscal managers. And that is not going to change under Horgan and the GreeNDP.

    As for the cost of projects like convention centres, roofs and bridges, you’re right they are expensive. But, they actually exist, and are things we all can use and enjoy. Entitlement programs that are the favourite of NDPers end up not leaving much to show. Except big bills.

    I look forward to reading your condemnation of pushing debt onto future generations by Trudeau /Horgan type politicians. I won’t hold my breath for it… but I’ll look forward to it.

  • 5 DBW // Sep 13, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    Diverdarren says roofs and bridges and convention centres actually exist so we and future generations can use and enjoy them so presumably that debt is ok. But entitlement programs leave not much to show except big bills.

    I am not advocating deficit spending, but using his logic, what is wrong with going into debt or at least spending more if it means future generations are better educated, healthier, safer (environmentally and legally) and more caring of others, in other words a better society that we can use and enjoy. Not putting words in Gene’s mouth, but maybe those are the Canadian values he is talking about.

  • 6 13.. // Sep 13, 2017 at 8:17 pm

    Horgan is good cop and Weaver is bad cop. Its a scripted act by two carneys. No mention of two of the big ticket items. 10 per day baby sitting and a $400 renters grant. Weaver has come out screaming about his opposition to these items and this will do two things.
    First and foremost it allows Weaver to act like he has control of the government and not just 3 seats. Andy is trying mightily to show the green voters that he is relevant. He is trying to show the Liberals that voted green that he unlike Horgan is fiscally responsible. He is hoping that by some miracle the voters dont give him what he so richly deserves. Zero green mlas.
    Secondly he has given Horgan some wiggle room to stall the 2 very expensive promises. Beyond stall Horgan might meaculpa and claim that without MORE tax increases the voters might have to wait till the NDP get their next mandate.
    Side bar: trouble back East with government baby sitting. New movie entitled sitters gone wild due out any day now.
    eh aint guvmint grand when its free and easy.

  • 7 Harry lawson // Sep 13, 2017 at 10:00 pm


    Great post.

    I remember I was so pleased when Gordon Campbell lowered my taxes until I saw the pain and suffering his program cuts caused to people of need.

    The other shoe is the variables that this government has no control over such as, natural disasters, increases in interest rates, world economic cycles. And of course Andrew Weaver and the Greens. What will that cost the budget to stay in power.?

    It is great to govern in good economic times lousy to govern in poor economic times.

  • 8 e.a.f. // Sep 14, 2017 at 1:06 am

    leaving the debt to the children and/or grandchildren, burdening the future generations, etc. with debt. If children are not properly feed, clothed, educated they won’t have to worry about future debt. they may not live to the age where they’d be working to re pay it. one in five children in this province live below the poverty line. Poverty reduced your life span as does in adequate health care. What some governments might want to do it “front load” so that there are not more expensive items to pay for in the future.

    el gordo reduced corporate taxes when he came into office. in effect defunding government. we need taxes to pay for programs which do involve children and those who are unable to earn a living such as the disabled.

    I certainly have no problem with what Trudeau is having us spend on children via the monthly payments to families with children. I don’t any problems with disabled and those on welfare receiving an increase in income. it still leaves many of them at a food bank, including those working at min. wage.

    “taxes are what we pay for a civilized society” the quote or something like it is attributed to a former American Supreme Court Justice.

    As to convention centres we can enjoy???? right if you live in the lower mainland but everyone in the province pays and most of us in the hinterlands never get to use them. There are also thousands upon thousands who live in the lower mainland who will not have the money to attend a function there. things like convention centres are built so private enterprise can use them to make money but Convention centres themselves or arenas seldom if ever make a profit. they usually need to be replaced or have very expensive upgrades done. A few more children’s hospitals and a few arena/conventions centres wouldn’t kill any city. (I’m not discussing arenas which are part of community centres)

    the budget was O.K. after being in office for a short while it may not be smart to jump into the big expensive items such as child care and child care is something we need to look at. When a young couple in the City of Vancouver spends the first $4100 per month on rent and child care how much money do you think they really will have left over to go to an arena or convention centre activity, which charges a fair wack of change.

  • 9 D. M. Johnston // Sep 14, 2017 at 6:04 am

    We must remember that Gordon Campbell gave large tax breaks for the wealthy, with income made up from MSP, the faux Carbon Tax, and a score of other user fees.

    This has greatly distorted BC tax regimen, now the NDP will try to reverse this Reaganesque tax gouge.

    I think the multi billion dollar mega projects including the Massey Tunnel replacement bridge, site C and the Broadway subway scams will be mothballed if not cancelled.

    Other billion dollar projects will be scaled back to suit need and not political whim.

    Too soon to tell if the NDP will try to get a handle on the 16 years of Liberal mismanagement or just coast with the Liberal created deficit.

    time will tell if both the NDP and the taxpayer are up to it.

  • 10 Gene The Bean // Sep 14, 2017 at 8:05 am

    Diverdarren – you ask some interesting questions.

    According to the fiscal reference tables from the Department of Finance from 1997 – 2007 there were budget surpluses each year. In Harpers first 8 years of reign, his guvmint produced a total of 127 BILLION dollar$ of deficits.

    The national debt was 484 Billion dollars when Harper took over and had grown to 612 BILLION dollar$ by 2014.

    Is this the type of “pushing debt onto future generations by Trudeau /Horgan type politicians” that you are referring to?

  • 11 BMCQ // Sep 14, 2017 at 8:56 am

    I was born and raised and lived in Vancouver proper until just recently.

    I have never missed voting in any Municipal, Provincial, or Federal Election and ALL of my Votes have gone to Conservative, Socred, B.C. Liberal, NPA type Parties.

    Not always because I have always supported or endorsed everything they proposed in Election Platforms or legislated but sometimes because IMO they were better than the alternative.

    I was not a supporter of Christy Clark personally and I felt she was not right for B.C. the past two years or so but I felt that the Libs were better for B.C. going forward.

    The Libs/Clark ran a terrible Campaign and the Voters were simply tired of her Smug Smile, Arrogance, and many of her Policies.

    I still felt the Libs were over all better for B.C..

    I freely admit that I have a very strong dislike for PM Justin, NDP Member Kwan, Mayor Gregor and most of His Visionite Minions.

    Having said that I may disagree a lot with Premier Horgan, Weaver, and many others in the Alliance but I do not dislike them and I wish them well in Government. I want to see B.C. and it’s population do well and prosper.

    I quite like and respect Carole James and always thought she would have been a wonderful Speaker regardless of which Party was in Power.

    I do not always agree with her but I again respect her and what she represents.

    James is a very Classy Person, she is thoughtful, and she believes in B.C. and it’s People regardless of what they might believe in.

    I have no problems with Unions, My Company is Unionized and I consider Unions an asset and important for Working People of all wage levels.

    Of course I believe some Union Contracts, Benefits, and Pensions are rather Rich and unfair to various Industries but those Contracts were Negotiated and so be it.

    In fact Unions are instrumental in encouraging many in Industry to offer competitive Salaries and Benefits to many Citizens/Workers that do not have an Agreement.

    Having said all of that I for the Life of me just do not understand why some people particular one very Bitter and Angry Punter on this Blog hates absolutely everything Conservative, B.C. Liberal, Corporate, or Free Enterprise Individual or Organization without giving it a thought or pause for consideration.

    Most Conservative Thinkers, B.C. Liberals, Captains of Industry, other Business People, Corporations, or Free Enterprise People and Entities are really not Morally Corrupt, Morally Bankrupt, Devious, Criminal, Haters, Bigots, or People that might cut in Line at the Merge Point on the Lions Gate Bridge.

    It seems to me that some Poor Tortured Souls exist in a Very Dark Place!

    Everything is Doom and Gloom and it must be a very lonely existence.

    I can guarantee that the vast Majority of Corporations and Business People Pay their Fair Share of Taxes as ruled by CRA.

    If they do not they are dealt with and they must make good.

    As of a day or so ago I will see an increase in Personal and Corporate Income Tax. My various Property Taxes increase each and every year.

    Property Owners Corproate and Individually are facing dramatic increases in ALL Taxes and combined with the ever increasing Rents, Cost of Real Estate, and those fore mentioned Taxes Business are closing their doors at a dramatic rate.

    We need Government to control spending, provide adequate services, ensure Health Care, Education and the rest are managed fairly and efficiently and we need Government that does not cater to Special Interests.

    People complain about the B.C. Debt.

    In fact it is Ontario that is the Worlds Largest Sub Sovereign Debtor.

    B.C. has Debt but those that complain about it never point out that we in B.C. have debt that consists of much in the way of Infrastructure.

    Much of that Infrastructure Debt was proposed by the once Glen clark and Joy McPhail Government.

    Clark and McPhail proposed

    The 2010 Olympics and The Expo Line both of which were implimented by the Social credit/Liberal Governments.

    Other Infrastructure Projects that ALL British Columbians benefit from.

    2010 Olympics
    Whistler Legacies
    QE Park Legacies
    Richmond Oval
    Sea to Sky Hwy
    Golden Eagles Bridge
    Port Mann Bridge
    Hwy 1 Expansion
    Canada Line Evergreen Line
    Sea to Sky
    B.C. Ferries
    B.C. Place re-build – Not just a Roof
    Convention Centre
    Prince Rupert Seaport Container Facility
    And many others that do not come to mind.

    Can anyone confirm that ANY of these would have been built/put in place under a Horgan/Weaver or Dix NDP Government?

    Let us also not forget the THOUSANDS of Jobs that were created in the Construction for those Infrastructure Projects!

    Then of course there are the Thousands of Jobs created by the Operation and Maintenance of every single one of those Infrastructure Projects.

    Will anyone on this Blog tell People that commute from Squamish, Abbotsford, Poco, Richmond, White Rock, or any other outlying area that they should not have any of those Facilities or Bridges, or Sky Train Routes, and then be prepared to take an extra hour to commute to and from work each and every day?

    Yes some of those Projects had overruns and that is not acceptable. Government must ensure that Contracts are firm with a reasonable Contingency of a few percent but that is it.

    Ontario simply Grew debt by expanding the Size of Government and the bloated Bureaucracy!

    Diver – 2 – 4

    Agreed, your points are valid and make too much for some that do not want to see the hard cold facts.

    13 – 6

    You are 100% correct, Horgan and Weaver are simply acting out a Charade that they feel will satisfy their own Bases and in fact pull the Wool over the Eyes of the “Great Unwashed”, their Bases.

    This whole performance is nothing less than a very poorly acted and rehearsed charade to make it look like there is much back and forth between the two Alliance Leaders.

    Just how Stupid do they think their Base really is?

    Then again……………..

    (Response: Can we ALL try to keep to the TOPIC …. the new Budget! I hate to do it, but looks like I’m going to have start doing much tougher edit/slashing again. h.o)

  • 12 Gene The Bean // Sep 14, 2017 at 10:01 am

    Diverdarren, forgot to mention your comments about large infrastructure project costs and you say “they are expensive”, well yes they are Captain Obvious but my point was the BILLION dollars of payola paid to BC Liberal contributors – over and above – the contract price. I guess that one just slipped your mind but as a good conservative, you probably don’t care as it benefits you and that’s all that matters.

    I’d be interested in hearing more about what you refer to as “entitlement programs.”

    Would that be something like reducing MSP premiums, working on (instead of just talking about) the opioid crisis, trying to reduce homelessness, supporting those with mental health issues and properly funding public education? The horror!

    As you say “nothing to show” from things like that – just “big bills” …… right?

    Better to have a bridge you can use and a nice comfy seat at BC Place than improve the lives of tens of thousands of people…. right?

    Comment #5 – good summation. But remember conservatives don’t care about things like “if it means future generations are better educated, healthier, safer (environmentally and legally) and more caring of others, in other words a better society that we can use and enjoy.” Evolution is a slow process so they (conservatives) will still be with us for some time yet……

  • 13 BMCQ // Sep 14, 2017 at 1:16 pm


    As a Successful, Honest, Generous, Law Abiding, TAx Paying Employer of Working People, and a Conservative Minded “1%” Canadian I sometimes get fed up being told that I am Morally Corrupt, Evil, A Devil Worshiper, and “Walk the Earth with Cloven Hooves” by an angry, lonely, and hate full Individual, like Gene the Bean.

    My Apologies for being off topic but sometimes,,,,,,,

  • 14 DBW // Sep 14, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    In #11 BMCQ made this comment

    “Just how Stupid do they think their Base really is?

    Then again……………..”

    The inclusion of “then again” pretty much implies that the base is stupid.

    In #13 he criticizes the stereotype of Conservative supporters by Gene.


    Back on topic. The problem with budgets and new governments and the rest of this political stuff is that we have our biases and will see whatever we want to see until – and maybe not even then – something actually happens to support or deny our biases.

    This budget update doesn’t seem all that horrible for now. They didn’t include everything which suggests prudence. If you support the NDP you probably like it. If you don’t, you are probably waiting for the other shoe to drop. Every thing else is speculation


  • 15 D. M. Johnston // Sep 14, 2017 at 3:11 pm

    Quote: Other Infrastructure Projects that ALL British Columbians benefit from.

    2010 Olympics
    Whistler Legacies
    QE Park Legacies
    Richmond Oval
    Sea to Sky Hwy
    Golden Eagles Bridge
    Port Mann Bridge
    Hwy 1 Expansion
    Canada Line Evergreen Line
    Sea to Sky
    B.C. Ferries
    B.C. Place re-build – Not just a Roof
    Convention Centre

    Most of these are costing the taxpayer dearly. The one project I do know a lot about is the Canada & Evergreen Lines. Costing $1 billion more than originally estimated, the Canada Line has been built on the cheap, with limited capacity (40m long station platforms). To achieve the same capacity as the rest of the SkyTrain lines, $1.5 billion needs to be spent. Operating costs are about 3 times more than for a conventional transit system and it is turning out to be a classic White Elephant.

    The Evergreen line is the unfinished portion of he old Broadway Lougheed R/T project. When Clark and McPhail forced SkyTrain on TransLink, instead of light rail, there was not the money to complete it as originally planned. Light ridership means the Evergreen Line will be a tax suck for years to come.

    The provincial debt, including contractual obligations has soared to 180 billion under the Liberals and these over priced vanity projects are one of the reasons for an almost out of control public debt.

    Sorry moaning about the NDP and not accepting that the Liberals squandered money like shoveling off the back of a truck into the pockets of their political friends, does not good government make.

    When the budget does come down, there will be screams of “shock and disbelief” from the chattering classes, who stayed mute while the damage was done.

  • 16 BMCQ // Sep 14, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    DBW – 14

    Actually my comment “Then again” refers to what I believe Horgan and Weaver think of their Supporters/Base.

    I did not say the Base of those two Parties was stupid.

    I did not think for one minute that you or any other supporters of the “Two Headed Monster” of Horgan and Weaver would fall for their poorly orchestrated Charade.

    I have much more respect for you than to think you could have been fooled by their cheap and tawdry Political Shenanigans!

    DMJ – 15

    I took great care to mention Clark and McPhail because I believe they showed vision with those ideas.

    Clark was also correct when he attempted to Re-Float” the Ship Building Industry but he took bad advice on the Aluminum Hull Fast Ferries. If he would have instead continued with Traditional Hull Designed Ships he would STILL be Premier.

    I did point out that many Major Projects Cist far too much, but that is the fault of Poor Oversight and Management Contracts that were NOT Fixed with a Contingency.

    That certainly does not mean the Projects were ill advised.

    I travel to many different locations and believe me Grade Level LRT does not work anywhere, it in fact creates chaosan congestion and it is dangerous.

    Of course the B.C. Budget each year must Finance Gov Programs for ALL of our Provincial Citizens but we must also provide opportunities for Hard Working Citizens to travel to and from Work, Events, or to visit friends and family in a timely manner.

    We must also provide opportunities for those that wish to enjoy Leisure Activities at B.C. place, Richmond Oval, Whistler, New Ferries to transport Business People, Trucks with Goods, and Vacationers to Islands, and convention Centers and others for Tourists and others at various gatherings.

    We must also recognize that those mentioned also Employee thousands of Citizens of B.C.

    Then we must also recognize that most of those Infrastructure Projects also create and provide Economic Spinoffs for other Industries such as Employment in Hotels, Restaurants, Bars, Dry Cleaners, Maintenance Companies, and ALL the other thousands of Income Generating Ventures.

    Should absolutely everything in the Budget go into Health Care which is about 45%, Education 15%, or the rest?

    Do Hard Working Citizens regardless of Income not deserve to save time in commutes, enjoy leisure activities, and the rest?

    Do they not deserve something for the efforts they put in?
    Should everything in our Provincial Budget go for various Government Programs and Special Interest Demands?

    Yes, Projects should have been managed better and Over Runs should be restricted by Fixed Contracts but we in B.C. At least have Infrastructure in place that benefit Residents for years, we have not just simply increased the Cost and Size of Bureaucracy!

    The Horgan Budget is within what they initially proposed, I do not think there are any surprises other than the omission of The Bloated Soon to Be Disaster Baby Sitting Program. If you want to see how that will turn out look at the Quebec result.

    I believe the $400.oo Renters Credit was a pathetic Bribe when something much more is required.

    In fact the Surplus is almost $3 Billion Dollars and the Horgan Government may be in Deficit in the upcoming February Budget.

    Unfortunately Horgan will soon increase Carbon TAXES (more than one) Gas Tax, create Road Pricing which will cost more than the recently removed Tolls

    Horgan should instead Finance MSP by attaching the equivalent amount to a Graduated Amount to Income Tax for those beginning with a $50 K Income Level.

    He should also do away with Carbon Taxes, Gas Taxes, and Road Prucing by increasing the Provincial Sales Tax by 1% Province Wide.

    That 1% will be dedicated to the Provincial Budget each year to provide Funding for Roadways, Translink, Bruges, and the rest for the whole Province.

    A 1% Tax like that can be explained to the People, it is fair because those that spend more pay more and it is a simple Tax that is transparent and it is easy to see Results of the income from the Tax.

    In fact a Consumer Tax is really not Political, any Government in the future could justify its existence because it is so transparent and it is for the “Greater Good”

    By implementing that Tax it would ensure that if the People’s Business was managed properly other wise the Government could avoid Huge Deficits.

    Again, those with Income of under $5o K would be eligible for a rebate on that 1%.

    No one in B.C. Would notice the 1% Transit Sales Tax or the MSP coming off of their Income Tax.

    Legislation like that would do no harm to any existing or future Government of any Party and it would make Budgets much easier to manage going forward.

    On top of that the Citizens of B.C. Might get the Transportation and MSP Coverage they deserve.

  • 17 BMCQ // Sep 14, 2017 at 5:41 pm

    One other thing here.

    If I am correct the Large East Coast confederation Bridge and the Quebec Champlain Bridges were more or less Federally Funded.

    Premier Horgan and before him CC and Campbell should have sent/send a Government Representative to Ottawa to secure MUCH more Federal Funding From PM Justin for our own Infrastructure Projects like Port Mann which is part of the Trans Canada Hwy and our B.C. Ferries which is technically part of the TC Hwy.

    I always felt that the B.C.Missed a chance/opportunity to use Political Leverage on the Feds.

    Horgan should get on that right away.

    There is no way PM Justin can avoid coming up with a few $ Billion on either two of those.

    Even if it was a $ Cash Injection the amount of say $ 5 Billion could go directly to the Site “C” Project for Power we will need in the future.

    After all the soon coming 1% Sales Tax Increase will cover Translink/Roadways.

  • 18 DonGar // Sep 14, 2017 at 6:35 pm

    Three simple points from many years of fixing broken businesses and failed government programs.

    1) Government waste is killing the taxpayer. There is so little accountable and measureable outcomes in government programs. There are far to many of cooks in the kitchen and management levels each with their own agendas that in far to many cases are in conflict with the desired outcomes and are never held accountable. And when they fail to deliver those non measurable outcomes the solution proposed is always more money.

    2) We have too many victims who will never take responsibility for their actions situation and look to blame somebody anybody for their blight while demanding that government solve their problem(s).

    3) We have a political system where elected officials owe the business, special interest and unions that elected them favours that way to often are not in the best interest of the average citizen and taxpayer.

    Until those issues are addressed we will never get out of this mess regardless of who is in power.

  • 19 Diverdarren // Sep 14, 2017 at 6:48 pm

    Bean. Stop the class warfare.

    You, me, DBW and I’d guess the majority of the blog readership recognizes what deficit spending means. It doesn’t look like there is any support for it on the blog.

    If Horgan chooses the path that Trudeau has taken, deficit spending (68 Billion $ deficit 2016-19) Then we can all have an agree-a-thon that Horgan is making bad fiscal policy.

    But that hasn’t happened yet.

    Instead we have a NDP platform to guess at how Horgan will pay for the goodies. To quote Andrew Weaver, “It’s a potpourri of promises” “It’s an, I am desperate to govern plan.”
    Thanks Andy, if the NDP is desperate to govern, what does that make the party that props it up?

    Bean and DBW, you want the NDP to fund the ideal socialist province where more of the producers wealth is transferred to the takers.

    But, even Tommy Douglas knew that, “the trouble with socialists is that they let their bleeding hearts go to their bloody heads.”

    If the NDP can keep all their promises, and provide a $108million surplus 2017-18, and pay for it with a tax increases on the very wealthy, without sending us into a economic downturn… I’ll be the first to say, “Good on you Horgan!”

    But, I don’t think that’s going to happen.

    We are already seeing cracks in promises. MIA is the $10/day daycare, $400/yr rent supplement, money for BC Parks, roll-back/ freeze on ferry fares, and the $1000 completion grant for university grads.

    Since we all agree that deficit spending is a bad way to manage the provincial coffers, anything less than a balanced budget that has all the promises met should bring us all together in a unified denunciation of the NDP.

    And, I mean a real balanced budget, not one of those famous fudge-it budgets we get here in BC.

  • 20 Jimbo // Sep 14, 2017 at 7:15 pm

    Jeezus BMCQ – don’t your fingers ever tire?

  • 21 John's Aghast // Sep 14, 2017 at 8:27 pm

    Bill, Bill, Bill! For goodness sake, get someone to edit your post for brevity!

  • 22 DBW // Sep 14, 2017 at 10:53 pm

    This may be slightly off topic but if we are going to discuss things with as little miscommunication as possible it may be helpful.

    First of all. Thank you BMCQ for stating that you do not think supporters of the “two headed monster” are stupid. I am still unclear though what you were implying

    “Just how Stupid do they think their Base really is? (implication: Horgan and Weaver must really think they are stupid)

    Then again……………” (implication? What words go with the ……)

    Harvey, in post one Gene said he didn’t see the doom and gloom and you said what doom and gloom. Well, your headline with “first shoe to drop” means

    To await a seemingly inevitable event, especially one that is not desirable

    From your idiom of waiting for the other shoe to drop, Gene inferred (as did I actually) that you were expecting something bad (maybe not doom and gloom) but definitely something bad to happen.

    Diverdarren, I asked a simple question. I asked if building a bridge or a convention centre is good debt because it was tangible why isn’t it good debt for something less tangible like education, environmental protection etc.

    Instead of answering my question you inferred

    Bean and DBW, you want the NDP to fund the ideal socialist province where more of the producers wealth is transferred to the takers.

    Now I am not denying that my question may have implied that, but it was actually an honest question. I really would like to know why one is good debt and the other not.

    And back to the topic at hand. It is all still speculation. Will Horgan be able to deliver on all his promises. I doubt it. But I also don’t see trillions of dollars in LNG money or hundreds of thousands of LNG jobs either.

    All I can advise Horgan is to be careful. If he screws up, it will be another generation or more before the NDP gets in again.

  • 23 Hawgwash // Sep 15, 2017 at 6:54 am

    “Where will the money come from?”
    “NDP deficit spending”
    “The sky is falling.”

    If, BC’s debt doubled or tripled, depending on whose numbers you use;
    If, multiple Auditors General, Deloittes’, Moodys’ etc. have said BC does not use standard accounting practices;
    If, those same entities have consistently warned of over spending and growing debt;
    If, the Liberals forced taxpayer owned corporations into deep debt by borrowing to pay dividends;
    If, no matter how hard you pretend to not see, the Liberals spent more than they earned, every year for 16 years;

    Please explain, to this simple minded, old man, how this was/is not deficit spending.

    While you’re at it, please explain in a few simple words, how borrowing $25 to pay two $10 debts and claiming you are $5 to the good, is not a ponzi scheme.

    I’m asking because as hard as I try to sift through information, I just git more confused.…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.3.344…0i67k1j35i39k1.1t6d8LfjfwQ….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.7.793…0i13k1j0i20k1.LErdR1zaQjg….0…1.1.64.psy-ab..0.8.1283…35i39k1j0i13k1j0i8i7i30k1j0i13i30k1.8pOEa5ItkvY
    Jimbo 20;
    Not long ago, I read where some people have something to say and some people have to say something.
    John 21;
    The same could be said for Bob, Bob, Bob.

  • 24 e.a.f. // Sep 15, 2017 at 7:27 am

    A deficit isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it just can’t go on forever. although the B.C. Lieberals kept saying we had a surplus, we didn’t because the government deficit went up and so did the deficit at Crown corporations. if part of a government has a deficit, then the whole thing does. Moving it into another column doesn’t count.

    Now the NDP is trying to make some changes which a lot of people wanted and that includes a reduction of MSP and no tolls. We now have both. Tolling of bridges is not a good thing. its a form of taxation, doesn’t matter what you call it and that includes a “user fee”. Whether you live in the Lower mainland or elsewhere, we all benefit from adequate bridges and highways because we all use the goods which are shipped on them. Therefore I’m of the opinion highways and bridges ought to be paid for out of general revenue and the building of them needs to be part of a government department, not some arms length corporation. If bridges and highways are part of a cabinet minister’s portfolio, there could be greater accountability.

    To pay for bridges and highways out of general revenue we need to make a decision, do we do without or do we pay taxes to have them? Saying users ought to pay for them, is simply an unfair system. Everyone pays the same, but in the end those who have lower incomes pay a proportionally higher rate.

    MSP premiums, a health care tax based on income is the fairest and most equitable method.

    we need to decide what type of society we want to have. Yes, government funded child care is expensive but so is not having it. Yes, only parents benefit but we all benefit from having children raised in a safe, healthy environment. $10 a day may be a tad too rich for the budget, but one based on income might be fairer. If parents are paying $2K a month on child care, for one child, that is a lot of money being sucked out of the economy. We all benefit from that child though when it grows up, especially if the child becomes the person who serves us our coffee, fixes our plumbing, takes care of us in hospitals, does our accounting, fights our fires, etc.

    A government can’t be all things to all people but it ought not to be an organization which ignores the needs of the citizens while giving hundreds of millions of tax breaks and royality rebates to corporations. At some point there needs to be an equitable tax system.

    So far so good, in my opinion, with the current budget the NDP has put forward.

    When it comes to taxes, you have to make it to pay it, so if you’re making it, don’t complain when you have to pay it. We’d all like a free ride but that isn’t going to happen. Future budgets may not be able to carry the cost of $10 a day child care, but the government does need to do something about it because the current system isn’t working.

  • 25 Gene The Bean // Sep 15, 2017 at 8:53 am

    #19 – “If Horgan chooses the path that Trudeau has taken..(regarding deficit spending).” – I think you meant to say the path that Harper took, as I previously pointed out and was met with the ‘cricket’ response.

    Trudeau has been ‘budgetarily’ screwed by the aptly named Cons just like Horgan has been screwed by the LIEberals – coincidently just before an election they were both destined to lose. Just part of the conservative make-up…. in full view for everyone to see, but only two thirds of us will understand it.

    No one really wants ‘socialism’.

    We want fairness, openness, accountability and a government that supports all people so they can contribute to a just and fair society. None of those things can happen under a conservative government. Just like none of those things can be understood by a conservative as selfishness rules their lives.

    I can understand how some around the world “support” their “leaders” (like Duterte in the Phillipines or Mugabe in Zimbabwe) as they do not have the mental capacity and economic opportunities to do anything different. Yet some here still think people like Harper and Christy and maybe the worst of all, Gordon Campbell, should be worshipped. No excuse for that. Fundamental moral failing.

    The current BC budget direction is a start.

    Horgan wont hit it out of the park, maybe he can stretch a single into a double and if he does, good for us. Sure beats what we had, being mugged in the parking lot and having your lunch money stolen while the elites bypass the line to the gold plated box seats….

  • 26 Hawgwash // Sep 15, 2017 at 9:30 am

    DBW, I’m glad you brought up the “other shoe” analogy, so I didn’t have too; I’ve peed on Harvey’s boots enough lately.

    I too read the headline as a negative, “bad news ahead,” banner.

    Author intent is relevant.

    But then, I am sensitive to headlines; to the extent, several times a month I email a local media outlet to point out ill conceived misspelled, contradictory or just plain erroneous, weblines.

    My most recent favorite:
    “Man wanted for revoking Canada-wide parole conditions”
    By Arvin Joaquin Global News

  • 27 E. Johnson // Sep 15, 2017 at 10:10 am


    Your clear and concise post sums the situation up brilliantly. I totally agree with you.


    Very good questions. I too would like to have an explanation. Governments seem to have mastered the financial gymnastics required to create “a balanced budget” that is really not balanced at all.

  • 28 BMCQ // Sep 15, 2017 at 10:12 am

    DBW – 22

    I may disagree with you for others for Voting NDP but I am not going to call you Morally Bankrupt, Evil, or the rest.

    I may like to discuss and debate your support for the NDP but what good would it do me to call you names when I am here for the debate?

    As I have told you on a few occasions I learn something on this Blog on a regular basis.
    I have very serious concerns with some of the NDP/Green Policies but believe me I want them to succeed now that they are our Government.

    Unlike some/most on this Blog that wanted the B.C. Liberals to fail.

    My statement was sincere.

    However, I am still of the opinion that the back and forth between Horgan and Weaver is nothing less than a Charade put forward to their Bases.

    And YES, I believe they think they can manipulate their respective Bases.

    I believe when a Government is building worth while Infrastructure which includes Stadiums, Bridges, Roadways, and the rest that Benefit Tax Payers it is Good Debt.

    Of course we cannot and should not have Over Runs beyond reason and we should not Waste Funding on various Projects. That goes without saying.

    Mistakes can be prevented and there were mistakes made by previous Socred, NDP, and Liberal Governments.

    An Auditor General should have more oversite and that same Office should in fact review any Contracts before those Contracts are awarded for Major Projects like bridges, Convention Centres and the rest.

    The over site may be costly but I would rather see $ 1 Million spent on over site of projects each year than over runs and Budget Blow Outs over $ Hundreds of Millions.

    It is all about Management and Efficiency!!

    Anything the Horgan Government can do to Manage the tax Payers Dollars in a responsible and efficient manner contributes to the Bottom Line and in turn it provides more room in the Budget for various Programs that might require extra Funding.

    Any Government of any Brand is responsible to the tax Payer to manage the Budget so it Benefits the Citizens of the Province and that means that Government must control Spending and prevent Waste.

    e.a.f. – 24

    Finance Minister Carole James, the Premier and virtually everyone else in Government has acknowledged a B.C. Liberal Surplus of I believe
    $ 2.8 Billion Dollars.

    I believe the Baby Sitting/Child Care will grow very quickly in the Term of the NDP to an unmanageable Bloated Cesspool of Bureaucracy of over $ 1 Billion Dollars plus.

    Quebec is apparently taking steps to reduce their Child Care quite drastically.

    We must also keep in mind that B.C. is sending $ Billions to Ottawa and they are inturn re-distributing that hard earned B.C. Tax Payers Dollars to other “Have Not” Provinces which includes Quebec and Ontario,

    In other words YOUR B.C. Tax Payers Dollars are already subsidizing the Quebec Child Care Plan!!

    Then there is Ontario, should we in B.C. be sending our Tax Dollars to Ontario so the Premier there can increase the size of Government?

    Our New Premier and his Team need to approach the PM and the other Provinces and demand that this be addressed at the next Meeting of the Federal and Provincial Governments.

    Premier Horgan could really make a name for himself if he demanded more Federal Dollars for Infrastructure for B.C. and at the same time demand that B.C. is doing MUCH more than it’s Fair Share when it comes to Equalization.

    Both of those serious problems should be addressed and we would soon see a much Bottom Line to our Budget this coming February.

    A B.C. Government of ANY Brand should look at Equalization very seriously and we should in B.C. should demand a better deal for our Tax Payers.

    There is no reason Horgan cannot address this whole situation.

    It is obvious that if the Horgan Government can control a better deal with the Federal Government it will have a positive affect on the next Budget and it allows for more investment in Programs required by the People of B.C.

    I believe the $ 10.00 Child Care Plan/Promise will end up being a Disaster.

    Horgan should not implement the Child Program in the February Budget.

    To do that would be a Disaster for the Province and it will cost Horgan his Premiership in Oct. 2021.

    I believe it would be a better idea to offer a small Tax credit to Parents that will assist them but it would not Blow Up the Budget.

    Otherwise “The Other Shoe Will Drop”!!

  • 29 Brian // Sep 15, 2017 at 10:46 am

    It does not matter what government is running the province we just keep on going further and further in debt. The liberal government increased the BC debt faster than ever before under Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark. They added much more debt to the province than the NDP did during their ten years running things in the nineties. Same goes for the federal Conservatives they added debt faster than anyone in history. Previous to the Conservatives the liberals had decreased the national debt by over a hundred billion during their time in power. Bottom line all governments generally add debt. The right wing so called ‘good financial managers’ just add more of it faster than the others.

  • 30 Gene The Bean // Sep 15, 2017 at 10:53 am

    Half a billion dollars of payola and waste just on the Port Mann … the KPMG connection is not surprising.

    As a few of us have mentioned here, the BC budget wont be hard to balance once these criminal acts are eliminated and corporations and the wealthy start paying their fair share.

  • 31 13 // Sep 15, 2017 at 11:18 am

    What would we do if we could not blame the outgoing regime for all current problems?
    Looking at other jurisdictions that have guvmin run baby sitting we had better be ready to blame Christy for allowing families to have so many kids.
    Seems that people want the guy min to look after all their needs. Sounds like Socialism to this rubeWFB8

  • 32 Diverdarren // Sep 15, 2017 at 11:58 am

    DBW @ 21.

    You’re right, you did ask a simple question.

    “Big ticket items, one time costs, ie: Bridges/hwys, public buildings, civil engineering mega projects, are referred to as Capital Projects. They have their own part of the budget… The Capital Budget.

    We borrow the money from banks, that amount goes onto the debt, and the servicing cost become part of the Operating Budget.

    Capital Projects create direct economic activity. People get their products to market faster, thus costs are less to the consumer. People are able to take transit from farther areas of the city, and that creates economic activity where there was none before. (just look what the Canada Line has done to the Cambie corridor. Stadiums and Convention Centres create spin-off economic activity due to the events they host. Go downtown on game night and see the difference to a non-game night.

    The Operating Budget is the day to day cost to “keep the lights on”.

    Simply put, if your day to day costs exceed your day to day revenue the Province will have to go into deficit spending. ie: we have to borrow money to “keep the lights on”.

    And that creates some real problems. When a government can’t balance their books banks and CREDIT REPORTING AGENCIES start to send little messages to their client (that’s us). They downgrade our credit worthiness, and banks charge us more interest on our loans. that’s just tax money up in smoke due to a downgraded credit score.

    lets look at BC Credit Worthiness (DBRS) over the years.
    1991-98 : AA
    1999-01 : AA-
    2001-04: AA-
    2005-06: AA
    2006-17: AA+

    I’ll let you match up which party governed during the different rating changes. It wont surprise you.

    “British Columbia continues to have one of the strongest credit profiles of Canadian provinces, and the ratings remain Stable. DBRS notes, however, that the direction of fiscal policy, as articulated by the new government, will reduce flexibility within the credit profile and suggests that social and programmatic considerations are likely to trump deficit reduction during the next economic downturn.” DBRS press release Sept 12, 2017

    So go ahead DBW tell us about the importance of entitlement programs for the takers in society. But, the simple fact is if your socialist ideals cant be paid for except with deficit spending we’ll end up downgraded again.

    If that happens we’ll have to spend more of our taxes on interest to the banks, and it won’t matter if the project is a bridge or a $10/day babysitter, we wont be able to afford it.

  • 33 e.a.f. // Sep 15, 2017 at 3:39 pm

    BMCQ #28, I DO like that suggestion regarding he Auditor General reviewing all those items. Might save us a wack of money.
    What might also be a good idea is if when a budget is proposed it is reviewed by the Auditor General’s office also. is it actually a sound budget?
    When we talk about balanced budgets what we might want to ask our selves: what do I want to give up to balance the budget? What impact will giving this up have on society in general, now and in 10 years? sort of like counting to 10.

    Budgets are frequently dealing with the here and now problems, wants, wishes, politically expedient items. Perhaps we might want to look at how will it impact in 10 years down the road? We build these expensive bridges, roads, etc. but what if we built them before we needed them. I know it may sound crazy, but if things were built in 2017 dollars instead of 2027 dollars , if we’re going to need it any how and how about a government, city savings plan. It like every level of government seems surprised when they suddenly need more care homes, schools, day cares, hospitals, but really if they’d sat down and looked at the demographics some out to have figured it out. How about building “flex buildings”. Use it now for a school, in 20 years, seniors centres or a hospital or jail. It may cost more up front, but front loading in my opinion will usually save money.

  • 34 13.. // Sep 16, 2017 at 7:34 am

    So I guess the first NDP budget is paid for without any borrowing. The NDP claim that they will continue to pass budgets without borrowing. Everyone seems to agree that the promises made will be expensive. That would indicate that the money will come from tax increases. I doubt it will come from user fees as the classic user fee tolls have been scraped.
    Seems most (well at least GTB) believe that the Liberals governed to accommodate big business at the expense of social programs. Bean would not see a balance only the tax breaks that business got took away from social spending. Maybe more jobs created more tax to spend on social issues. Oh well that ship has sailed and now we will see how much better off we can be with the socially conscious NDP.
    Somewhere up the page BMCQ stated his like for unions. He then said that some union contracts are a bit rich but that they were negotiated so it is what it is. Agreed. My concern is where the BCL favored business and when businesses negotiate excessive agreements then businesses pay the bill. Now the NDP favor public sector unions. When the NDP negotiate excessive contract settlements tax payers pay the bill. Sadly getting rid of the NDP does not get rid of their contractual obligations.

  • 35 DBW // Sep 16, 2017 at 8:22 am

    Couple of points.

    1. Diverdarren. I truly get what you are trying to say. And usually, I like what you have to say because you are generally factual and unemotional. This time around you are letting some feelings through.

    “So go ahead DBW tell us about the importance of entitlement programs for the takers in society. But, the simple fact is if your socialist ideals cant be paid for except with deficit spending we’ll end up downgraded again.”

    What are these entitlement programs for the takers. Schools for kids. Care facilities for seniors. Funding for mental health or addictions? Or just the new ones like $10 day care. I am truly confused.

    Nobody is suggesting deficit spending. But…

    2. e.a.f. says more or less what I am thinking.

    “When we talk about balanced budgets what we might want to ask our selves: what do I want to give up to balance the budget? What impact will giving this up have on society in general, now and in 10 years?”

    And balancing a budget isn’t just giving up programs. It might mean that we have to pay a little more in taxes.

    And ain’t that the dilemma. The stereotype is that Liberals balance a budget by cutting back. The NDP balance a budget by raising taxes.

    What are the costs to society of each of those approaches. Where is the balance?

  • 36 BMCQ // Sep 16, 2017 at 8:49 am

    e.a.f. – – 33

    When we look at Governments in Canada, The EU, and most other places we see a huge amount of Bureaucracy, Waste, and abuse of the Tax Payers Dollars.

    It can be Over Runs on Major Projects, Bloated Bureaucracy, Unnecessary Programs and other mistakes that can cost Billions.

    As we can see that goes for Federal governments of any Party, Provincial Governments of any Party and municipal Governments.

    I was simply suggesting that we somehow need to implement Independent Over Sight that becomes the so called “Watch Dog” for all of those I have mentioned.

    Some might conclude that we would then be creating another layer of Government Bureaucracy but in fact an Auditor General type of Oversight that costs Tax Payers Money would ultimately save $ Billions in the Mistakes that could be prevented.

    Of course it would need to be Transparent and it would need to have Subpoena Power.

    In the long run Tax Payers and Citizens would benefit greatly and the Business of Government would be more Transparent and more Accountable.

    Serious Government Over Sight would also assist Governments in planning Budgets and set Priorities that Reflect the need of Citizens.

    Government Oversight would also ensure that ALL Politicians would be required to perform at the highest level.

    We do have Weak Kneed so called Government Oversight in Canada but it is cumbersome, inefficient, and it does not come close to serving the purpose that was intended.

    Time for a complete new model.

  • 37 13.. // Sep 16, 2017 at 8:54 am

    BMCQ @13
    When I read HOs blog comments I usually start at the newest entry and go backwards .This way you dont know the author till you get to the top. I can almost always identify your posts by many short paragraphs. Scotty on Denman many long paragraphs.
    GTB name calling and spite and vitriol.
    Comment #13 was not true to form

  • 38 Gene The Bean // Sep 16, 2017 at 9:23 am

    Comment #34 – “Sadly getting rid of the NDP does not get rid of their contractual obligations.”

    BC LIEberals contractual obligations for unneeded and unwanted IPP’s – over $100 BILLION dollars and growing …. and you are afraid of the NDP?

    Pssst: don’t forget the fast ferries and Glen Clarks deck … those are far more important than $100 Billion dollars of taxpayer money……

    I truly wonder what colour the sky is in some peoples world…..

  • 39 e.a.f. // Sep 16, 2017 at 4:24 pm

    getting rid of contractual obligations: gee, el gordo didn’t have any problems. he is responsible for the largest mass firing of female workers in Canadian history when he fired all the cleaners who worked in hospitals back in 2001. Now how has that worked out for us? Not so well. don’t think there has been a clean hospital since in this province. the only really clean bathrooms in the hospitals re the ones in the public area. The ones in the rooms, well some times if you’re lucky the R.N., 5 years university and $70K a yr will clean the shit off the walls, toilet, and floor so the other patients can use it.

    In the long term doubt if any government saved any money on that one. do wonder who has all those contracts? wonder if the health authorities are paying more now, when you factor in infections in hospitals? wonder how much money was sucked out of the economy starting back in 2001 when salaries went from $18 an hr. to $10 or $12 an hr. wonder how many couldn’t afford to keep their homes, how many had to rely on food banks?

    Lets hope the next budget will deal with the lack of camping spots in this province. Hey I know its not a life threatening item, but I’d like to go camping in a provincial camp ground once more before I die without having to spend hours on a computer and make a reservation a year in advance.

  • 40 13.. // Sep 17, 2017 at 8:23 am

    No GTB I am not “afraid” of the NDP. I am sickened by the NDP. My support for the NDP ended in the 1980s when I realized that the NDP didnt care about anyone in the province that wasnt a government worker. They allowed the private sector unions and all workers in general to fall behind . Then they decided to start social engineering. I dont agree with that concept . When deciding who will get a job if everything is equal then go ahead and do some engineering. But to exclude someone from running for office because they dont fit the quota that those that already have a secured position have established is idiotic. The amount of taxes paid to fund benefit plans for three different levels of bloated government is another reason I am “afraid” of the NDP.
    Boats and sun decks are not that big a deal compared to the unfunded pension liability in the public sector.

  • 41 BMCQ // Sep 17, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    Common Sense Canadian?


    All Governments including the B.C. Liberals have their warts and they must be kept to a minimum by proper Budget setting and Over Sight as discussed by Government but NO Matter how some Morally Corrupt and Dishonest Individuals might like to “SPIN” it the Ontario Liberal/NDP Government of Kathleen Wynne and her Predecessors take home the Prize as the Worlds largest sub Sovereign Debtor!!

    DBW – 35

    As of a few Days Ago I will be paying a lot more in Corporate and Personal income Tax.

    I am already paying significant more Property Taxes for Commercial, Industrial, and like many others Residential Properties for Fewer and Poorer Services.

    I honestly would not mind paying slightly more in Personal and Corporate Taxes IF Governments at ALL Three Levels controlled Spending and became more Efficient.

    I have already stated on this Thread that I believe the Horgan government should Implement a 1% increase in the PST and dedicate that 1% to Transportation, Translink, and Infrastructure for those right across the whole Province.

    At the same time Horgan should do away with Carbon Tax, Gas tax, and ALL other Hidden Taxes associated with Transportation.

    As I type this I believe about $ .49 of each Litre of Gasoline we purchase goes to Taxes of various sorts.

    Another huge problem that Horgan should address is the fact that we are currently Wasting $ 1 Million Dollars a Day of Tax Payer Money to the dES which is wasted by Poverty Pimps like Mayor Gregor and the rest.

    We need to send the Drug Addled TRepeat Pro;ific Convicted Criminals back to FAce Court time in their home Provinces and we need the Housing on the DES to be used to accommodate and serve Seniors that are Law Abiding and actually contributed to our Province.

    Horgan can easily address these mentioned in the upcoming February Budget and he would be hailed as a Hero!!

    By People on All Sides of the Political Spectrum.

    But the Question is, “Does he Have the Courage”?

    That PS t

  • 42 e.a.f. // Sep 18, 2017 at 1:36 am

    wouldn’t blame the NDP for any unfunded pension liability in the public sector. They weren’t the ones in office for most of the last century nor this one. As I recall the Scoreds were in office until they were defeated by the NDP, who did 3 years or so in office in the early 1970s. Then back to the Socred. During the 1980s we had the Socreds in office and not until Harcourt became the premier did the NDP return to office. they left again in 2001 and the B.C. Lieberals ruled the province for the past 16 years.

    I don’t get how the “three different levels of bloated governments….. I aM ‘afraid’ of the NDP.” Like how can the NDP, which has never been the government of the day, at the federal level, be responsible for anything at that level. I do know Paul Martin and then Stephen Harper failed to pay their share of the pension contributions for the postal carriers for a total of 19 years or so. that is why Harper said they had to lay them off, they couldn’t afford their pensions, but if one party isn’t paying into the pension plan how can a pension plan be viable.

    The provincial pension plans are controlled by a crown corporation type of organization and all the money the employees pay into their pension plans are invested.

    For years the federal government used federal workers pension plan contributions by putting them in general revenue. That did change in the late 1990s because it was becoming an unfunded liability./ When interest rates were very high, they loaned that worker pension money out to provinces at 3% while interest rates roared over 12%. The feds were certainly doing it in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s.

    if government employees pensions aren’t adequately funded don’t blame the NDP. they have never been in office at the federal level and municipal councils are not controlled by the NDP.

    Now it maybe that you are still a tad over whelmed by the events of the 1980s when Bill Bennett was premier and but the government unions didn’t have much to do with that once it got rolling. None of the unions were interested in bank rolling the political ambitions of community groups who weren’t putting up any money and weren’t going to be loosing any jobs. It all ended when Jack Munro and Bill Bennett had a chat in Bennett’s kitchen in Kelowna.

    You can’t blame the NDP for everything in this life. Some times its other political parties.

  • 43 e.a.f. // Sep 18, 2017 at 1:48 am

    for those worried about how the NDP will find the money to budget some of their items, they may have started by ended/canning the Advantage B.C. program. Some maybe upset by having their club un financed but after spending $140M to get 122 jobs, the NDP has other plans for the money. the Advantage b.c. club can continue, just not with our tax dollars. (one of those stories the New York Times covered)

    A few more of those cuts by the NDP to government expenses, they won’t have to worry about deficit budgets, they just may trim the B.C. Lieberal fat for friends fun festivals.

  • 44 D. M. Johnston // Sep 18, 2017 at 6:39 am

    @ BMCQ #41

    @Common sense Canadian

    This is what happens when one builds infrastructure for the sake of building infrastructure, as the BC Liberals did and what the NDP may do if they fund the Broadway subway and Surrey’s LRT being designed as a poor man’s SkyTrian.

    This is what the Massey Tunnel replacement bridge was all about.

    All government do it, but the BC Liberals made a fine art of it, using mega projects to direct taxpayer’s tax money into the pockets of political friends and insiders by building projects that cost 2 or 3 times more than it should.

    The NDP, the same.

    What these mega projects don’t do, is serve the public interest.

  • 45 Gene The Bean // Sep 18, 2017 at 7:54 am

    13 – afraid of public sector unions but a $100 billion giveaway to LIEberal friends and insiders is ok – laughable!

  • 46 BMCQ // Sep 18, 2017 at 8:34 am

    DMJ – 44

    Obviously regular contributors to this Blog including Harvey do not always agree on everything but at least MOST of us that Post on this Blog are willing to discuss the Pros and Cons of various Projects, Government Decisions, and certainly mistakes made by Elected Politicians and their Staff.

    Even those like me that happen to be Morally Bankrupt, Corrupt, Walk the Earth with Cloven Hooves Capitalist Conservatives may even come forward with the odd good idea.

    Quite honestly I would rather put a group of us in a Small Room to argue out some of the Decisions Government and Opposition Members seem to get so wrong so often.


    I have crossed Arbutus at either Broadway or 41st Ave. in Vancouver travelling to Burnaby and back twice a day for most of my Adult Life.

    Why would Vancouver Mayor Gregor actually choose Broadway and Arbutus for the end of the so-called Broadway Corridor Subway Line?

    I have not actually clocked it on my Audo Odometer but I can almost guarantee that there is still at least another 6 KM from Bdwy and Arbutus to UBC.

    Just how does the Mayor expect to get the 20K or so Students, Staff, Faculty and the rest to UBC the rest of the way?

    In the past I have suggested that the Mayor Dig Up poor old Doug Henning and his Flying Yogit Party to Transport the Students and others I mentioned to UBC on their Climate Friendly Flying Carpets.

    Why doesn’t someone in MSM ask Mayor Gregor and the rest possibly Horgan and Weaver how they will Transport 20 K People from Arbutus and Broadway to UBC?

    I have a solution for the UBC Grid Lock but that is a discussion for another Day when it is On Topic.

    AS mentioned We in B.C. and the rest of Canada need Formal Government Over Sight by Attorney Generals Offices at ALL Three Levels of Government.

    Yes it would cost Money but I can guarantee you it will keep Politicians from ALL Parties Honest and it would eliminate Government Waste, Prevent a Bloated and inefficient Civil Service, ensure Accountability of ALL in Government Elected and other wise, and prevent Over Runs on Major Infrastructure Projects and the rest.

    I sincerely Mega Projects CAN Serve Public Interest but they must be implemented properly with Control of Costs and those Projects must be warranted.

    The Port Mann Bridge, Golden Eagles Bridge, a New Massey Bridge or Tunnel, Sea to sky Hwy, a New B.C. Place Stadium, the Convention, and most of the rest do Serve and Benefit the great Unwashed but we need Over Sight of Contracts and we need the Accountability I discussed.

    All of those mentioned would guarantee better Value for the Tax Payer and in turn Federal, Provincial, and Municipal Budgets would be Transparent and ensure that Accountability.

    I believe that same Over Sight would also make better Politicians from all Parties.

    The Transparency itself would make it easier for the Voter to make informed decisions at Election Time.

  • 47 Ron // Sep 18, 2017 at 1:05 pm

    Re: BCMQ-#11 Sep 14, 2017 at 8:56 am:

    I hope the NDP strip the absurd money that the Liberals were giving to their insider private schools for the rich. They can pay it themselves. That money will be better used in the public system and hopefully even the playing field.
    Your backing of big projects in the face of the insider payoffs being exposed (Port Mann, $40 million Mount Polley cleanup cost borne by taxpayers for starters and many more to come) using the excuse that people NEED them smacks of crony capitalism which is a purview of most business owners and I see your point of view, you’re in it to make money. Which one of those projects came in under ORIGINAL budget? Great money managers right?
    How would you know that all people enjoy the Convention Ctr.-BC Place for concerts,sports-Sea to Sky Highway to ski-live. How many of those operations are in the black and benefit those other than the insiders-rich owners-builders. If those weren’t subsidized by the taxpayers, I would have no problem. I have driven the Sea-To-Sky Highway once in the last 15 years but pay every year thru shadow tolls.
    I applaud you on your success, but maybe look at things from a different perspective because in your posts you opine that you’re OK with the new gov’t but later call the GreeNDP union a charade, thereby showing your true biased opinion. The Liberals weren’t a charade? How about HST-not going to sell BC Rail, Basi-Virk, MCFD death, aforementioned Port Mann, Site C non-BCUC oversight, using gov’t workers on election campaign.
    We saw the history of the BC Liberals in black and white and RED ($180 billion), now just give the new gov’t a chance to rise or fall on their own merits and not from 20 year old history that wasn’t that bad for workers like me.
    At least they didn’t dehumanize those workers like the BC Liberals and fight them all the way to Supreme Court (teachers). How much was that legal bill, which I believe has never been disclosed. My take it’s more than the Basi-Virk payout-legal-admin fees.
    Unions can turn into a plague also, so there has to be a balance there, but the all out war that Clucky staged should make her personally liable for the amount of money wasted. She’s most certainly a multi-millionaire by now.
    If you are such a great business owner and support all the good things, why don’t you go public about it and let us find out what your workers think.
    I for one cannot afford any of those activities for health and monetary reasons. I get instead much less than inflation raises, if at all.
    I knew personally one friend who also broke his body, was railroaded by the owner and WCB under the Liberals that he took his life, leaving a wife and 2 kids. Know many more that are injured now and struggling because they made a company money, then kicked to the curb.
    As long as there’s jobs, right? Many more unwashed out there to exploit (TFWs), 300,000/year.
    Major bone to pick for the GreeNDP, the $1,200/year donations is still too much and how different is that than the Liberals. I guess it makes the $525 they’re charging now peanuts. Big Fail!

  • 48 Ron // Sep 18, 2017 at 1:36 pm

    Re: BMCQ #16 Sep 14, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    You say “I believe the $400.oo Renters Credit was a pathetic Bribe when something much more is required.”.
    Then you later say “He should also do away with Carbon Taxes, Gas Taxes, and Road Prucing by increasing the Provincial Sales Tax by 1% Province Wide.” And “Again, those with Income of under $5o K would be eligible for a rebate on that 1%.”
    Who does that 1% PST affect the most, not your pocketbook, the 1%. It would greatly affect many people. Spend all you want Mr. 1%, but 1% is a lot to “unwashed”, hard working people trying to make rent-mtg and keeping Vancouver running for you 1%.
    Just using that word “unwashed” is so denigrating that I will not read another word from you.
    Harvey you should delete all his personal attacks on many BCers please, even if he is hiding behind his goody 2 shoes owner facade. He’s really showing his true colors..

    (Response: This blog takes up enough of my time already…without censoring general opinions/beliefs too … even if I disagree with them … as long as they are not personally insulting or swearing at a particular individual. h.o.)

  • 49 Ron // Sep 18, 2017 at 2:20 pm

    Re: e.a.f. #43 Sep 18, 2017 at 1:48 am

    Is that true, they got rid of Advantage BC. Hooray, that means that turd Colin Hansen is unemployed. Couldn’t happen to a nicer lap dog!
    We better bolster our sewer systems if the GreeNDP starts cleaning out the swamp. Who’s gonna hire all these trough suckers.
    Hey BCMQ. maybe room in your organization, since you wuv Lieberals to death, fellow 1%ers one and all.
    Call it Advantage BCMQ, hire Crusty and take a trip to China. I’m sure you’ll be able to exploit them on the cheap, since they’re both looking for jobs, ooops not yet, have to burn through their 2 years of full pull, paid off unemployment courtesy of taxpayers for “retraining”.

  • 50 e.a.f. // Sep 18, 2017 at 2:34 pm

    BMCQ, WHAT That announcement did, regarding the “broadway line” was increase the value of all the property along that line. once the announcement was made there were multiple changes of ownership of the land and always going up, up, and away. worked for some one.

    why the line ends at Arbutus and Broadway is really, really simple. they don’t want an increase in crime on the west side of Vancouver. there has been increases in crime in areas closely adjacent to sky train stations, B & E artists can just hop on a train, “go to work” and get home before the victim even knows about it.

    In my opinion there is no need for a sky train across Vancouver to U.B.C. unless some one had dreams of turning Pacific Sprit park into a nice big development or that golf course which sits right at the entrance of U.B.C. Then there are all those houses sitting on big lots at U.BC. Now think of a high rise on each lot. lots of money to be made there.
    It would be much less expensive to have one lane dedicated to bigger buses and be done with it. But sky trains and such make big money for those who have the contracts and the land around the sky train. Lets hope the NDP cans this project also. there will be some upset “investors” in the land around Broadway, but hey no one ever said capitalism was not without its risks.

  • 51 13.. // Sep 18, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    @GTB It seems you have a few hang ups. Fear of public sector benefits? Fear of NDP? Gene simply substitute disgust or loathing or sickened for fear and I will agree with that tiny bit of logic that you are hung up on

  • 52 BMCQ // Sep 18, 2017 at 8:55 pm

    RON – 47

    If the NDP Budget was to do away with 50% Funding for Private Schools the Budg t would be blown up into a huge deficit. In fact Private Schools SAVE the Tax Payer Money.

    A PST increase of 1% is the most fair Tax of all, it is a Consumer Tax based on Voluntary Purchases and those with more actually spend more. That 1% PST increase makes more sense than anything else, it is easy to Administer and with the Rebate for those earning less there is an added advantage that those with lower incomes benefit the greatest.

    Using the term”Great Unwashed includes You, Me, and anyone else that is not an Elite Politician, anyone on this Blog is aware of my description of The People”.

    I have also used the term on Radio when I ask questions of Politicians. In other words, “We the People want to know”.

    Surely you can understand that can you not?

    I have stated several times that I was not a Fan of Christy Clark but I felt her Government was better for ALL of the People of B.C. than what we are about to experience.

    The February Budget will ne a wake up call for “The Great Uneashed” but wait until the 2019 Budget, that will tell the real story.

    Who needs the Facts when you have Ideology!

    Correct RON?

    I AM Part of “The Great Unwashed”!!

    Get it?

    e.a.f. – 50

    Police stats show that almost all Home and Auto Theft takes place within 3 or 4 Miles of the Criminals Place of residence.

    There is some truth to your comment of Criminals using Sky Train but I do not know if that is the reason for the ending point.

    I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation of the Brdwy/ARB Terminal, it is puzzling.

    I agree Horgan should cancel that Sky Train Line.

    I honestly believe that we do need to increase Sky Train, add Bridges or whatever else that makes sense because Hard Working People of ALL Income Levels that pay the Taxes that Fund Government deserve to get to work easier and quicker and they need to get home to their Families in a decent frame of mind and have some time for Dinner.

    Again, Horgan needs to talk to Ottawa about more Infrastructure Funding much Like Que got for Champlain Bridge and P.E.I. Got for Confederation Bridge, that would leave more Money in Budget for other needs.

    I have a solution for UBC but that would be off topic.

  • 53 BMCQ // Sep 19, 2017 at 6:28 am

    Ron – 49

    You might look to my Post in the following Climate Change Blog Topic by Harvey.

    I actually use the Term “The Great Unwashed” and it refers to anyone other than the “Elites” and that my Friend includes ME!

    You are no different than so many on the Left when you talk about Freedom of Speech but only if agrees with you.

    You should now be elated that Horgan and Weaver by changes to the Provincial Charter and Budget will soon be using the Hard Earned Tax Dollars of the Tax Payer and “Great Unwashed” to Finance their next Election Campaigns.

  • 54 13 // Sep 19, 2017 at 7:04 am

    EAF hurrah you finally get your wish. You always want to pay a bit more tax and presto courtesy of the green dp tax payers get to cough up 28 million to fund election costs. Now I know you wanted your dough to go to the kids but this cash is to cover lost revenue from business and union donations.
    28I’ll ion would feed many children or three fat political parties. Thank you Andy

  • 55 13.. // Sep 19, 2017 at 8:47 pm

    To any current BC Liberal MLA. Just a thought . You guys (gals) grossly underestimated the importance of the tolls being removed and it cost you an election. I think Horgan doing a flip flop (telling a lie) on tax payers paying for election costs is just as important as the tolls. Dont just argue against the NDP “flip” when they pass the law refuse to accept the tax dollars. If you cant flat out refuse the tax grab then donate to the food bank and to some sort of green cause. Challenge Andy to do the same.

  • 56 BMCQ // Sep 20, 2017 at 7:19 am

    13 – 55

    Your analysis of the situation and suggestion are very astute.

    An excellent Post!

    I hope the B.C. Liberals are listening!

    (Response: Some pundits have suggested the Libs should NOT take the dough …but I think that would penalize our democracy: because since union and corporate donations would be illegal, it would cripple any party that turns the illicit funding down … REWARDING the culprits who lied and deceived the voters in the last election. h.o)

  • 57 BMCQ // Sep 20, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    The Pundits and so called Experts have been wrong about the Real Estate Bubble for about 10 years, the CAD going to $ 1.15 USD, Interest Rate Increases until just recently, Brexit, Trump, correct PresidentvHillary, B.C. 2013 Election, right Premier Dix, the last two Can ‘Federal Election and several others too numerous to list.

    You may be correct that the Democracy could be affected if the Libs were to turn down the Funds but if memory serves they had about $ 15 Million raised over two years ago and over the past 18 months or so they raised another $ 15 Mill or so.

    They must have spent $ 10 Mill on the recent Election so I assume they would be well funded for the next one or two and they would still be able to raise Funding under the new rules.

    I am certainly not claiming that the strategy suggested would be exactly virtuous but as 13 points out it just might sell with much of the Electorate.

    I believe the Liberals would actually look to be more responsible and ethical with most Voters including the NDP Green Base.

    As to what I initially thought on this subject? I will
    Post on the new Topic.