NDP MUST Find Ways to Embrace Enbridge, Kinder Morgan and Other Major Projects

It’s game over for NDP hopes of achieving power in BC for at least another generation ….  unless the party finds ways to support MAJOR  construction projects.

And yes, I’m talking oil pipelines, coastal ship traffic, mining, rail movement of resources, major dam construction … all those things so many extreme far-left  NDPers have found so repugnant over the past decade.

Or the NDP will stay in Opposition for the foreseeable future .

I told you so on this blog May 3 in an article: “NDP Policies Give Liberals New Hope” :

“The NDP is the party of “NO” say the new Liberal ads … exploiting  NDP positions on several projects: “NO” to Kinder Morgan; “NO” to Enbridge: “NO” to coastal tanker traffic; “NO” to expanded West coast coal exports; “NO” to the Prosperity gold copper mine in the Cariboo: “NO” to BC Hydro’s Site “C” dam; “NO” to Jumbo Glacier Resort; and possibly “NO’ to fracking,” I wrote.

“The Liberals are the party of “YES,  their new ads say: “YES” to development: “YES” to jobs; “YES” to lower taxes etc.  … all aimed at exactly the voters I pointed to recently as the only ones who really count: the undecided.”

That piece drew lots of derisive comments from hard-line NDP supporters  …  but I was right!

The truth is the NDP was done in by its own LOUD  hardline anti-big-business, anti-development, anti-resource extraction extremists  …who have over the past 10 years pushed their own party into a series of clearly unpopular positions.

The voters made it VERY clear May 14: more of them support the jobs, royalties, revenues and economic input that come from “greenbacks” emanating from major development projects than the limited returns that are attached to an overwhelming “green” philosophy.

Hate that if you will … but that’s the political reality the NDP MUST face now … or continue to languish as losers.

And there IS a way for them to make the shift, without losing face:  by replacing their “No”  philosophy with one that says “Yes”  …. IF  CHANGES  accompany development that will  BETTER preserve the environment, BETTER protect communities, BETTER provide public revenues and benefits, and BETTER add more First Nations jobs and financial rewards.

YES to an amended Enbridge plan; YES to a re-routed Kinder Morgan pipeline; YES to coastal exports in state-of-the-art carriers; YES to increased mining activities in the Cariboo and elsewhere, with environmental protection controls; YES to Hydro dam developments etc. etc.

Of course, the party’s far left wing … who have championed moving closer to the “Greens” will not support such a major shift away from the NDP’s current profile. Let them go: there are FAR MORE votes among blue collar British Columbians than there are among those who support the Greens agenda.

And the NDP needs to regain support among the HUGE numbers of blue collar workers … even if means losing a FEW others to the Greens.

The NEXT BC election will also likely be fought on JOBS … not a green agenda, or homelessness, child poverty, seniors, health care  or education.

The shift will be difficult for the party: there will be a huge internal fight.

But if the NDP doesn’t find a way to embrace the BIG projects, the Liberals will … and win again.

Harv Oberfeld

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35 Responses to NDP MUST Find Ways to Embrace Enbridge, Kinder Morgan and Other Major Projects

  1. Gordie says:

    I think the important thing too with resource extraction is to get a fair return on the resources. I know that a lot of forest companies in the interior are paying 25 cents a cubic meter for stumpage. We might as well give it away. And I understand that in Alberta they are not getting their fair share of royalties on oil and it’s playing havoc with their budgets.

    (Response: Absolutely! The people of the province must also profit from resource development …not just the big corporations. But that’s the job of government … and in that regard, maybe the NDP would be better than the liberals. But first, they have to adopt an attitude and policies that favour resource extraction, shipment and export. h.o)

  2. 13 says:

    Harvey, Ive never read anything on your blog that was easier to agree with. As a Liberal supporter working in a unionized industry I have made this argument over and over to my NDP supporting coworkers.
    The whole green agenda is a feel good ideology. It feels good to think windmills, bikes, solar, no nukes, no oil, no growth, no digging up the earth to extract anything, no meat, just lettuce and trees. It feels good but it doesnt pay the bills. For that matter it costs money to feel good. Thats why most green supporters are either very wealthy or very poor. These two groups can afford the luxury of feeling good.
    LOG IT BURN IT PAVE IT! A bumper sticker that appears in many middleclass working enviroments.
    My other suggestion to the NDP is to put out a platform that big buisness isnt going to like.
    Easier certification of unions
    Anti scab legislation
    NO right to work
    Manditory use of union shops in all public spending
    Allow secondary picketing
    Put an end to union busting as per the port of Vancouver
    Hell I might even vote for the NDP again

    (Response: Wow! Even YOU could vote NDP again! LOL! Reality is there is victory in the middle class vote …not in the fringes. The Liberals know that … and their campaign aims at that group … even if their policies benefit the rich more! The NDP has to go back to basics … and get rid of the extremists within who have taken over the agenda. After all, it’s ONLY when in power, they can bring in many of the other suggestions you make ..which I would support too! h.o)

  3. Gumby says:

    Harvey, you won`t be around to breathe the air, Enbridge has offered British Columbia $30 million dollars per year in income for 30 years..One big tanker spill and BC loses 10`s of thousands of jobs and clean up could be in the $billions. Enbridge has limited liability insurance($600 million) and they aren`t responsible for any ocean accident,

    Do you see the price at the pump? The energy companies are making money here in Canada, they don`t need exports, Enbridge is all about exported oil, it will create a mere 200 full-time jobs.

    Most mining can proceed without a fight, not giant open pit heavy metal leeching mines like Tesako`s prosperity mine next to the Fraser river watershed.

    No one is stopping LNG development in BC except the major energy companies themselves, 3 lng export licenses have been granted, 2 of those licenses for over 2 years now, the energy companies have decided not to make any lng export facility build commitments until late 2014 to 2016…They are kicking the tires in a dozen gas rich countries. they are looking for the best deal for themselves.

    LNG plants IF BUILT, employ 250 full-time persons at most, with another 250 permanent spinoff jobs, so 5 lng plants will employ 2500 people, and at most another 1000 workers in the gas fields.

    There are 30,000 coastal jobs put at risk with a major tanker spill.

    Sorry Harvey Oberfeld, this post was a cheap rant, the NDP aren`t finished, we have a dived province, old doinks like you who don`t give a damn, Alberta rednecks in the interior.

    Vancouver Island and the north coast is almost all NDP orange, as are many areas of the GVRD.

    Vote percentages

    NDP 39%

    Liberal 43%

    The score wasn`t 100 to 10,

    48% of eligiblevoters didn`t vote, young voters by a huge margin supported the NDP, however young people don`t go to the polls.

    10 lng plants and enbridge pipeline, and kinder morgan pipeline combined will add all total.

    6000 full-time employees, we have lost 30,000 full-time private sector jobs in the last 18 months, your analogy is flawed.

    Unless, maybe we need 1000 lng plants and 1000 pipelines.

    A very archaic post, kinda reminds of the 1950`s

    (Response: The Libs no doubt hope ALL NDPers keep your point of view …negative, negative, negative about just about every development project currently on the books …. so THEY can win the next election too. It was exactly the message people like YOU spewed out in the last campaign that cost the NDP the election…. read your conmment on my May 3 blog. Turns out that I was right, again, and you were wrong, again. As for the future, I have not said the NDP should support any of these projects as they NOW stand … but go after changes to make them acceptable, safe, create jobs and be profitable for all. Or they can stay losers by following your advice. h.o)

  4. Gumby says:

    Oh, one more thing Harveyyy.

    Harper and the Con party will be booted out of office in 2015, I can`t wait, even knowing it will be Justin Trudeau

  5. Gini says:

    Harvey, any good changes the NDP try to make are shot down in the legislature. I know this because I watch Question Period quite often.

    I also read RafeMair and Damien Gillis’ blogs in the Common Sense Canadian, and agree with most of what they write. Does that make me one of those ‘extreme far-left NDPers’?

    I don’t think the NDP will be able to stop what the BC Liberals are going to do to this province, which IMO is to bankrupt B.C. while simultaneously selling off all our assets.

    The LNG projects they think will save their asses is nothing but a pipe dream. In reality, they are so far behind, they think they’re ahead.

    There is a documentary on CPAC this weekend, called “Whipped”, showing at 3 p.m. PT tomorrow, and at 6:30 p.m. PT on Sunday. It shows us just how our political parties work (or, more precisely, how they don’t work), at least not for British Columbians.

    It appears to me, after watching that documentary (it was also on last night), that the only way the citizens of B.C. are going to get a government that works for us is to put everything to a referendum. Voting for the same inept, corrupt party every four years isn’t working.

    (Response: I too saw Shawn Holman’s documentary …VERY good! And whenever I’ve watched Question Period, the NDP has been quite good. But to change things…they need to win power…and in that regard, they just failed miserably, because their NO messaging was rejected by the YES crowd, which clearly outnumbered the NDP supporters…again. The Libs were ready to be defeated ..and it was ONLY their JOBS strategy (or at least promises) that carried most of the undecided voters. The NDP SHOULD learn from that. h.o)

  6. 13 says:

    Im one of the lucky ones. I can live with a Liberal government. If I wanted an NDP government and had to rely on Gumbys logic I would be very disappointed. Crunch the numbers till the cows come home. The Liberals won. Hang your hat on the youth vote, which as you point out doesnt occur . Guess what, if 100% of youth support the NDP and none of them vote , well you get the picture.
    Ill wager that were looking at 8 more years of an NDP free province unless they change their stratagy.

  7. chuckstraight says:

    Proportional representation, no more union or corporate donations to political parties will be a good start to cleaning up and levelling the playing field.
    And no oil to China.
    Sorry- disagree with this column.
    We need clean air and water to survive- we might not all be able to have Escalades.

    (Response: All good ideas …but I notice you didn’t mention “jobs” … which clearly is the Number One priority of many, many voters, as the Libs can still testify, despite all their problems and lousy record over the previous five years. h.o)

  8. Hugh says:

    There is good industrial development, and there is bad industrial development.

    Piping diluted bitumen across BC is a bad idea.

    Site C is not needed, would flood agricultural land, and would only bankrupt BC Hydro sooner.

    Jumbo ski resort is a bad idea.

    New Prosperity mine is a bad idea.

    LNG export is a bad idea.

    The NDP is smart to reject or be cautious about the above.

    A good idea might be to develop BC natural gas as a transport fuel.

    (Response: So smart, in fact, that the policies you support have kept them in Opposition ….again. Makes me wonder if you’re an NDP strategist .. working secretly for the Libs? Believe me, if the NDP couldn’t beat THAT gang of Liberals, with their fiscal record, scandals and all kinds of un[popular decisions and fee increases etc…. they’ll NEVER win, without a drastic policy shift to SUPPORT large resource projects, as long as they’re done safely and to the benefit of British Columbia’s WORKERS. h.o)

  9. Larry Bennett says:

    My dear Gumby – I have, over the years seldom read Sun columnist Barbara Yaffe, because she is almost consistently on the far left, or at least the liberal side of society. But just the other day, she admitted that, according to the Canadian Taxpayer Federation, “The MP pension system has since been reformed by the Conservatives (She must have been improving her mind on the sly) And that those reforms (they claim) will mean Stephen Harper himself will bypass nearly $3 million worth of prime ministerial pension entitlements he’d otherwise have received”

  10. Barry says:

    I’m in favor of resource development, but only if it’s done in an economically and ecologically responsible manner.

    As to economically: These resources belong to the people of BC. We should get most of the benefits. I would include this to mean much higher royalties than we are now getting. I would like to see all royalties go into a fund similar to Norway’s fund so that future BC’ers can have some reward from what we sell today because they won’t be able to sell them. If that means those of us living today have to pay higher taxes, then so be it.

    I would also follow Norway’s example that all the people working on the project must be native BC’res first and other Canadians second. If there aren’t any or enough “trained” Canadians, then the company pick up the whole tab of training those who live here instead of being allow to import foreign workers.

    As for ecologically, that means the companies doing the extraction have to pay the total cost, including long-term cleanup. For example one issue revolves around tailing ponds used by mines to extract minerals. In far too many places, both here and elsewhere, companies leave these ponds behind and when they need cleanup, the company is either gone or has declared bankruptcy, leaving the taxpayers to pick up the tab.

    I think these sort of guarantees would take a lot of the sting out of the anti-development types because it would insure the province gets the benefits and doesn’t get left with only the “shaft.”

    (Response: Sounds reasonable. There are ways to accomplish much of what you advocate without just saying No to almost everything. The environment must be protected, but surely we can find ways to do that apart from leaving in the ground the resources we ALL need and use. h.o)

  11. DBW says:

    I can agree with what you say:

    (…they’ll NEVER win, without a drastic policy shift to SUPPORT large resource projects, as long as they’re done safely and to the benefit of British Columbia’s WORKERS. h.o)

    Here’s the problem.

    When the NDP says we want to ensure that fracking is done safely, their opponents will say that the NDP says No to LNG.

    When the NDP wants safety assurances from Enbridge or Kinder Morgan, their opponents will say that the NDP says NO to pipelines.

    If the NDP wants fair royalty returns from mining, their opponents will say that the NDP says No to resource development.

    Sure they can say: “Yes” …. IF CHANGES accompany development that will BETTER preserve the environment, BETTER protect communities, BETTER provide public revenues and benefits, and BETTER add more First Nations jobs and financial rewards.”

    But as soon as those qualifiers are added, the fear of what the NDP have up their sleeves will be used against them.

    It’s bigger than just a policy change. They need a leader that is believable and charismatic and one that will deliver should a victory ever occur.

    For now I am resigned to the fact that we are pretty much stuck with a group of people that will not do anything that will help this province and if the rest of the province are happy with that then so be it.

    (Response: They need not worry so much about what their opponents say: it’s the blue collar voters they have to impress …but clearly didn’t once more. IF they have well-publicised policies and ads saying they FAVOUR various projects WITH proper environmental controls and public benefits, that would make a much better impression than just saying they OPPOSE so much. h.o)

  12. Crankypants says:

    I think that you have this all wrong.

    A political party, no matter which one, should run on what they believe is the correct course for the province or country. If their vision is what the electorate wants they will succeed.

    I think that the NDP’s biggest problem is that they don’t know what they stand for. It seems their only message is that they are not the Liberals. That may satisfy their hardcore supporters but does little to inspire those voters that are not locked into supporting any particular party nor those that might be coerced into actually voting.

    (Response: Well, the NFP USED to believe in a blue collar workers agenda ..until the party hierarchy and strategy planning was hijacked by the intellectual left (most of whom have never worn gumboots or hard hats) and the environmental activists (who more often than not hate resource projects, big corporations). I believe if the party is ever to achieve an election win in BC, the NDP has to get back to its basic working class roots, where good paying jobs for a million people is the PRIMARY goal …even if it means digging up the land, building pipelines and exporting by ship. That’s not just ME saying that…that’s what the VOTERS have said …loud and clear. They can choose to listen and change …or stay in Opposition. h.o)

  13. Larry Bennett says:

    DBW – “…and better add more First Nations jobs and financial rewards”. And what is that supposed to mean? Most companies would be elated to put Natives to work, just as you and I would, but the Natives have to be willing to show up for work – even after their first paycheck! Financial rewards – right, for work done, it is called a salary!

  14. harry lawson says:

    Great points harvey. however even if they said yes and embraced all of the above projects, they still may be destined for opposition.

    you have to clean up the back rooms as well. the ndp relationship with the poverty industry causes me to shake my head, the obvious ties to vision vancouver caused concern,
    would they run bc the way vision has run the city of vancouver?
    besides unions how about their relationship with tides and other environmental groups?

    (Response: We SHOULD be concerned about the homeless, poverty, seniors health care, education, First Nations etc. …nothing wrong with that. But I agree it does NJOT make the basis for a winning election campaign: the people who vote heaviest are those who have to pay to support all those others…and a winning strategy should each out to THEM …not mostly to those who will benefit from th spending end. h.o)

  15. chuckstraight says:

    Response to above- it is true I didn`t mention jobs- which won`t be very important without clean air or water but- these would be my ideas: all resources have to be value added before leaving ( logs for example) and one biggy-industial hemp. I don`t mean the smoking kind which should be legalized.
    The sad part of the jobs thing is that many folks don`t give a crap whether or not their job is sustainable in any way.

  16. 13 says:

    Harvey , it is clear from your commentors that your theory is bang on. The green leaning excuses to not proceed on various projects all might have merrit. Merrit aside this is why the NDP will never form government again. To many people (right or wrong) concerned about saving the planet. The other thing that many dont seem to get is our changing demographics. We are allready or soon to be populated (50%) by imigants from various parts of the globe where the thought of saving the planet is not even on the radar screen. The enviromental movement in China and India is not very important. Its not likely that these folks are going to support a party that wants to save the planet at the cost of creating jobs. Agree or disagree if you keep it real then this is a fact of globalization. We need more imigrants from Norway.

    (Response: I don’t believe it’s EITHER development OR the environment: we CAN take care of both. But the answer is NOT to just oppose most resource extraction in BC …or shoot from the lip policy pronouncements against pipeline projects … especially for a party that wants to form government. h.o)

  17. DBW says:

    @Larry. I was quoting Harvey so better to ask him.

    As to the sustainability of jobs (that chuckstraight mentioned) and our dependence on petroleum, the Tyee has an interesting essay by Robert Bateman.

    (Response: I think Larry was wrong ..and even a bit nasty …in suggesting natives don’t show up for work after their first paycheck. That is an old stereotype and like all stereotypes, it may apply to a few, but the mast majority of any people stereotyped do not meet the prejudicial conclusion drawn by those who utter those negative descriptions. h.o)

  18. kootcoot says:

    ” But first, they have to adopt an attitude and policies that favour resource extraction, shipment and export.”

    I notice that you left RESOURCE PROCESSING out of your rant above. That’s where all the so called blue collar jobs arise and that’s the jobs that have disappeared under the LIEberal reign of terror. 70,000 jobs lost and over a hundred mills shut down, in many cases disassembled and shipped to China to be operated by slave labor. The liaR part is so good at business they managed to practically kill off the forest industry during the biggest building boom (or bubble) in US history.

    Now Forest Minister Steve Thomson has signed a secret agreement to ship (“On January 30 Thomson signed an OIC granting a 10 year export permit for 300,000 bone dry units of chips……handled outside of normal procedures. ….This order also appears to violate the Forest Act which says chips can only be exported if they are surplus to BC’s needs.

    In other words, BC pulp mills may have to close due to lack of supply while those in Washington and Oregon provide JOBS with our chips.

    If the NDP depends on blue collar voters, they are certainly in trouble because more and more all we have in BC is low wage service jobs and high end financial scam folks.

    The diseased fish farms are killing off the commercial fishery, China mils our raw logs and the US will be processing our chips and chinamen dig ore in our mines. Where are the jobs for BC’ers in that scenario Harv?

    (Response: Get out of the 1950s …and into the real world! All your moaning and groaning about processing jobs will change nothing: the fact is the HUGE future market for resources is Asia and the fact is labour is cheaper there…so get used to the fact that, in most cases, we cannot be competitive in processing. That’s in MOST cases …our lumber mills are so efficient and highly tooled, we have been very successful there …and I think a case could be made for severely limiting or banning raw log exports. But I realize it’s not so easy: Asian countries could also retaliate against other Canadian exports…but I’d be willing to gamble on that one that they need our resources so much, we could ship only processed lumber. h.o)

  19. Jimson says:

    Critics of the NDP in BC must think its so easy..they must be incredibly full of themselves.

    Hey Harv, the NDP’s position on Natural Gas development was exactly as you stated they should position themselves. Horgan and the NDP were pro Natural Gas development, as long as it met rigorous testing including a ‘made in BC’ environmental review.

    Guess what? The lovers of nuance in the media made this position seem “anti-development”.

    No matter the position of the NDP regarding natural resource development, they will always appear to be the “party of NO” when put next to a party that rubber stamps turning a lake into a toxic sludge dump (your aforementioned Fish Lake).

    The media and big business posit the BC NDP as anti business extremists, when in reality, the Liberals are the extremists, rubber stamping projects so destructive even the Federal Conservatives have to step in to stop their destructiveness (fish Lake once again)

    (Response: It’s NOT their stand on LNG that did them in. It’s their shoot from the lip policy pronouncement on Kinder Morgan, their total, uncompromising opposition to Enbridge, their policies and their supporters’ persistent LOUD campaigns against just about every dam project, mining, ski resorts etc… clearly the public got the message: the Libs were the party for LOTS of jobs; the NDP not. I’m not saying it’s a fair conclusion…just trying to keep it real: THAT IS the impression MANY voters got …and the NDP campaign sure didn’t do a lot to put forward a plan for resource development projects etc. It was more about spending on areas and those people who need it …well, great…but that did NOT win votes. h.o)

  20. Gini says:

    Well, if lying is the only way to win an election in B.C., then if I were an NDP representative, I’d have to settle for being in the Opposition.

    On second thought, I would probably just drop out of the party system altogether and run as an Independent, and hope that my constituents would, like the Delta voters, and unlike the Cariboo voters, vote for the person who would represent them in the legislature.

    One final thought: When the B.C. electorate finally discover what they have had to sacrifice for Christy’s ‘jobs plan’, I probably won’t even be around to say “I told you so”.

  21. kootcoot says:

    “(Response: Get out of the 1950s …and into the real world! All your moaning and groaning about processing jobs will change nothing: the fact is the HUGE future market for resources is Asia and the fact is labour is cheaper there…so get used to the fact that, in most cases, we cannot be competitive in processing.”

    I think you’re in the 1950’s Harv. Let the Chinese mill their own trees, oh that’s right they don’t have any – I wonder why? Let the Chinese frack their own gas, oh yeah, they don’t have the water – again I wonder why?

    You were fortunate enough to grow up and have a career during a better time, as was I, but British Columbia can’t succeed with a few people (four figures) turning valves on a pipeline that when we get down to base facts only transfers the environmental costs to another jurisdiction. And when you face the fact that we on the west coast share the atmospheric pollution created in the far east (over half of the particulate matter in L.A. smog comes across the Pacific – go figure) then we really haven’t really avoided it, we’ve just taken it off of OUR BOOKS – more Enron style bogus book keeping!

    By the way, your suggestion that re-routing Kinder-Morgan pipe line is a pipe dream. If you are going to come out at Burrard Inlet how can you re-route it to avoid developed neighborhoods, which is the only goal I can see for that. Maybe we should build a deep water port in Indian Arm?

    When you and Harper rant about the Tar Sands being the economic engine of Canada how come you don’t mention the fact that the province being the most devastated by the development runs even larger deficits than B.C. under Crispy. I would suggest you read “Stupid to the Last Drop” by William Marsden to understand how profitable the Tarry Goo Pits really are. Mr. Marsden covers the history of the tarry goo from the late fifties when the plan was to extract the goo with up to a million nuclear devices to a few years ago – and they haven’t got any less stupid since.

  22. Larry Bennett says:

    Harve, I have nothing but respect for the Natives who have got off the reserves and joined the 21st century. Back in the 20 century (oh say, the ’70s) I used to cut line and chain while surveying Indian Reserves, that hadn’t been surveyed in 80 – 100 years. Like most Canadians the company went out of its way to hire the local Natives to help in cutting line, making pickets and posts and etc.. TRUTH is, (in most cases, not all) the boys didn’t show up the Monday after the payday. And who was paying for the surveys? Not the Natives, the taxpayers. They were getting paid the same as myself (not much!) but I had to pay taxes! Now I know the Natives are not afraid of physical action as I played hockey and baseball with, and against them. Just like to add that I have been the victim of some pretty nasty Natives in my time, and my niece who is part Native, says she knows all too well how nasty they can get.
    P.S. That said, I have been known to be nasty at times; sorry, I’m only human!

    (Response: Yes…back in the 70s! That’s 40 years ago. I too can remember a story: I was working in Regina and, to help cut native unemployment, the Sask government reportedly hired natives to tend Legislative grounds: but after two weeks, and payday, the story that went around was many did not show up the next week … came back to work when they were broke. And hunting season was particularly difficult. I don’t know if that was all really the case, but it certainly made the rounds. I think today is different … with better training, education and public respect, many First Nations make great contributions. Yes, there are some slackers, who sit on their rears and want the rest of us to support them, but that is certainly not limited to natives! I believe that if there are jobs associated with big construction projects, they would make every bit as good workers as anyone else .. and frankly, in their traditional areas, on big projects, I think they and other northerners or interior workers, should even be given the advantage over imports from down south, for instance. h.o)

  23. D. M. Johnston says:

    The problem with the NDP is that they are a generational party and their membership is getting rather long in the tooth. The offer nothing for Gen-X or the generation after them.

    The same is true of the BC Liberals, as their support is aging and many on the younger generation have no time for the corrupt neo-con pseudo economic/religious nonsense which passes for our economy. That is why over 48% of the people, especially the younger types, do not vote, neither party has embraced change.

    What is troubling for the NDP is that they are an exclusive party run by old hacks and even older “legends in their own minds” like Harcourt and no where do I see change on the horizon.

    Right wing parties will always attract voters because of their “get rich quick” philosophies, which translates into, reducing the taxes for the wealthy by increasing taxes on the poor. That we have poverty in Canada is a disgrace and the governments treatment of the poor is diabolical.

    If the NDP is to survive as a viable party (and at this point in time it is debatable) they have to drop their silly gender equality nonsense; their hackneyed union support; and a host of other silly-buggers stuff and run a party, with credible candidates, running on a platform with some vision for the future.

    Dix’s NDP had no vision; no agenda, except pandering to the anti-pipeline league; no discernible platform and really not many viable candidates.

    Not only did they snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, they were routed by one of the most questionable party leaders in recent memory, the reincarnation of Lucretia Borgia!

    Dix should have resigned on election night, but true to the NDP’s inept understanding of our political process has become a lame-duck leader, leading a lame-duck party.

    I do not see the NDP doing anything to reverse their fiasco and as it stands now, the NDP are like the captain and crew on the Titanic, which after sticking an iceberg and with the water awash over the bows, have struck a committee to see what they should do next.

    (Response: I agree completely on the silly gender/race rules: the BEST candidate should be THE candidate… no one should be excluded because of their gender etc.but also not chosen JUST because of it. And even the makeup of their review committee seems structured …NOT to get the best people to analyse and come up with the results, honest answers …but once more the priority is to the typical NDP political-correct criteria of the past 10 years or so …. that has seen them LOSE at least the last three elections. Ridiculous. I can just imagine the politically correct pap they will come up with …not blaming the policies that got them onto the committee in the first place, but just a couple of campaign errors and strategies … when the real problems of the NDP go much deeper. The party is dying with BC voters …. in need of major surgery …and I’ve got to tell you, NOT a single NDPer would arrive at Emergency in hospital and demand ONLY surgeons and nurses and anaesthetists etc. who ONLY fit certain pre-determined politically-correct criteria, based on race or gender or union status. h.o)

  24. Hugh says:

    If voters are dumb enough to believe Site C, bitumen pipelines and LNG export are going to be good for BC, that’s pretty sad.

    Intelligent, informed people are a bit sceptical, I would think.

    (Response: Read BC’s history. Believe it or not, there have been intelligent, informed people who believed resource extraction and export CAN be done very safely and to the benefit of the province. Take a look around you at the province THEY have made for us …not perfect, but among the BEST, SAFEST and RICHEST places in the world to live. h.o)

  25. Hugh says:

    I agree that resource extraction and export can be done safely, and to our benefit. Just not with those projects, IMO. I don’t see any real lasting benefits.

  26. Cindy says:

    $171 billion BC Lib debt/deficit (it’s all money no matter what you call it) that will be increasing in the multi billions of dollars by christy and her gang in the next four years, a debt our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren will never be able to pay off. BC Libs have actually bankrupted BC already and plan to continue to bankrupt us until we are stripped of everything we own, including all our money and our homes because of having to pay off their debt. But not to worry you don’t have any of those kids so it won’t bother you one iota that there is no future for young people, their jobs going to chinamen and NOT temporary foreign works ‘program’ in this bc liberal corrupt once beautiful BC.

    We can never have a legitimate election in BC with a corrupt bc lib government that cheats and lies to win and have done so since 1996. The drunk set up Glen the good Clark to get rid of him over a $5000 deck, the drunk had the RCMP and the corrupt media all set up ready to raid his home over a silly sundeck in order to get rid of him. I can’t ever forget the shocked and terrified look on the good Glen Ckarks face when the cops shone lights through his windows with terrified wife holding a tiny new born baby, and a gang of corrupt media with cameras ablazing, holding their new born baby, set up by the drunk but you don’t care because it never happened to you…..so you enjoy your nice union job/pension money that your Christy is making sure their will be no good paying jobs for the workers of BC. Suck it up Harv, while you can.

    I suggest you read Death By China and educate yourself about how China is also doing anything they please, poisoning our food, our drugs, breaking all laws to suck us dry of all of our resources, with pennies in return. China and the Obama corrupted USA already own us, aided and abetted by your beloved lying, cheating, psychopathic christy and harper.

    If you think there is any hope for survival here in bc you are ignorantly not up on anything that is happening and should never write such trash as you just keep on keeping your misinformation blog trash going, this the worst example of a guy who is also aiding and abetting the bc libs and harper by ranting on like this disgraceful plug for your BC libs.

    You will see the light very soon as it starts affecting you.

    Now you have a nice day because very soon you will be living in a province that is so corrupted and controlled by corrupt corporations and you not being a special person, only in your own eyes will soon be very sorry for pumping up a an absolutely corrupt government.

    You are like the Germans, when Hitler did the same thing to his people…..and the people let him because it didn’t effect them, then it did, then the next people let him because it didn’t effect them and then it did and when the last people standing were left there was nobody left to support them.

    We’re done man and you do not have a clue as to what is happening to our BC.

    (Response: No, BC is NOT done: the world is NOT coming to an end; and the sky is not falling. Your hyperbole is part of the problem … excess rhetoric that repulses most voters. I do believe in global warming; I have travelled in China and witnessed their pollution; I … like most other British Columbians .. do want to protect the environment. BUT that does NOT mean turn off all the lights, shut down all the power shovels and leave everything in the ground. People NEED jobs …young families WANT to be able to own homes …not just in urban cities where office jobs rule …but in the interior and up north …where RESOURCES hold the key to growth of income, jobs, happiness. YES, we have to protect the environment ..but surely in a highly advanced society like ours we can develop and export our resources while protecting the land and the oceans. Why just leave that or even expect others to do it? And if the NDP wants to win power not just do a terrific job in Opposition, they’d better get real and take up MY position, not yours. h.o)

  27. ferryworker says:

    My bellweather issue in the last election was BC Ferries. You may have assumed by my handle that I have a connection and you would be correct – 18 years.

    But the NDP had no plan for us. Unless you consider a fare freeze and a Review to be a plan. A 10+ year experiment by the the Liberals and all the NDP could come up with was this.

    Residents of ferry dependent communities wanted something different, but all the NDP could or would offer was no plan. There is that word ‘No’ again.

    I agree Harv, they need to change and change isn’t having No plan and planning to say No to everything!

    (Response: I think that became clear as the campaign went on: lots of advocacy on behalf of improving health, education, social, community services … but not enough about what specifically they would do with BC Ferries (except study the problem) and although they supported LNG, not much else to convince the majority of blue collar workers in the interior and up north that the NDP would assure them work. h.o)

  28. 13 says:

    RCMP, “the drunk” aka Gordo, media, Liberals, federal gov, prov gov, China, Obama, USA, Hitler all evil
    Glen Clark has infiltrated the evil capatilistic world of the Pattison group. Mr Clark is now making deals with the Chinese as a double agent.

    We do agree on one thing , Hitler was not a good person.

  29. Gumby says:

    Harvey Oberfeld, 13, Larry Bennett.

    “Brilliant minds think alike, or idiots seldom differ”

    I say the latter, it`s good to know you old fools will soon be gone, a bunch of Charles Adler wannabes.

    Harvey Oberfeld, I also believe you know this post was garbage, meant to anger and piss off those with brains.

    Anything to bring up your hit stats?

    You might try intelligent writing and detail.

    (Response: Bring up my stats? For what purpose? There are no ads, no revenues, and frankly no one I know personally really cares about things like my stats! LOL! My post …like all I write as a hobby are just designed to keep it real … get people like you out of the fantasy world you live in and have no understanding why the NDP lose election after election! It’s the espousing of views like YOURS, not mine, that scared voters away from the NDP and clearly you must realize your dilemma …so revert to insults and name calling…the usual refuge of those without real answers, just juvenile reaction. h.o.)

  30. D. M. Johnston says:

    Let us remember that one, Adolf Hitler, was first elected by a democratic vote!

    History is a relentless master. It has no present, only the past rushing into the future. To try to hold fast is to be swept aside.

    John F. Kennedy

    Those who don’t know history are destined to repeat it.

    Edmund Burke

    History is a tool used by politicians to justify their intentions.

    Ted Koppel

  31. DBW says:

    One last shot because I know you are preparing for you next post and may I be so bold as to suggest it or at least one for the near future.

    Having read the differing opinions here, nearly everybody has a valid point of some kind, nobody is totally out to lunch.

    But I have come to the conclusion that the NDP and what they do at least in the short term is totally irrelevant.

    The Liberals won the election. It’s what they do over the next four years that matter.

    You have suggested that the NDP was the party of NO. In other words the Liberals were the party of YES and that got them elected.

    You have suggested that the NDP can say YES to resource development as long as it benefits communities, preserves the environment, etc.

    So my question. Is that not what the Liberals were campaigning on? Were the Liberals not elected to say YES to jobs, jobs, jobs through resource development? Were they not elected to say YES to balanced budgets? and YES to a debt-free BC through LNG?

    And will they be able to deliver these promises without destroying the environment and selling us out to large corporations?

    Has anybody asked the de Jong and Clark why the big worry about balanced budgets in the short term that will only result in increased fees and taxes or reduced services when LNG is going to put billions – no trillions – of dollars into a prosperity fund that will have us living the life of Riley for ever and ever?

    I voted for the NDP and was extremely disappointed at the result but let’s put our attention back to where it belongs. Let’s put our attention on the Liberals and see if they can deliver on what you have suggested the NDP should have done.

    If they do, then it doesn’t matter what the NDP did or does. But more likely we are going to see that their promises were nothing but figments of the imagination. Let’s hold them accountable and forget the NDP.

    So my suggestion of a future post: What should we expect from the Liberals over the next four years now that they have a mandate to do pretty much whatever they want. (Depressed having just watched Whipped.)

    (Response: You’re right: the Libs took that “positive” position on development IF it can be done environmentally safely, IF BC can benefit in terms of revenues and royalties etc. And they won! Because MOST people …not just free enterprisers but traditional NDP blue collar workers clearly put JOBS and DEVELOPMENT first … like it or not. It would be interesting to see the two main parties battle it out for what the voters WANT, ie resource development, mining, pipelines, rail, coastal exports, but no doubt with some variations of how to get there. Kind of like laundry soap companies: they all say they’ll get clothes clean …but look at the packaging and they all have variations…marketing techniques/messages. And frankly, in today’s tv age of political reality, selling the voters on parties is much like selling soap and if the NDP wants to become relevant again, they’d better start understanding that. After all, if they COULDN’T beat the Libs that came with Gordon Campbell’s disgraceful legacy, Clark governing for two years without a mandate, and more than 150 scandals and controversies and cuts … they’d better turn away from their own extreme left negativity you see on here so often by their supposed supporters. h.o)

  32. r says:

    I think BC should be careful about corporate entanglement at a political level.Watch out for the puffery on all sides.

  33. Larry Bennett says:

    Gumby’s got brains! Who’da thunk it? And here I felt like Custer at Little Big Horn; but you don’t see me turning tail, nor does Harvey look at all like Sitting Bull. You want to see a right-wing blog, try SmallDeadAnimals or Flying Cat Fur, sites that I would find pretty middle-of-the-road.

  34. Jimson says:

    Harvey, with all do respect, I once again must disagree. The NDP put forward one of the most fiscally pragmatic and dare I say fiscally conservative platforms in their history in BC and the BC Liberal response was to put up a big neon sign over a bridge with made up spending numbers, which the media treated with credibility.

    Lets face it, no matter how “middle of the road” the NDP platform is, they will always be made out to be the “free spending” PARTY of NO.

    (Response: No matter how good you say their platform was … and even if I agree somewhat … the fact is not enough voters did not bought it and they lost ..AGAIN. Politics is a science …you can doing the SAME experiment over and over …but if it failed once, twice, three times … you’d better change the formula! h.o)

  35. 13 says:

    YO Gumby , Ill gladly be lumped in with LB and HO.

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