NDP Surplus= Another Taxpayer Ripoff

They ALL do it: over and over again, BC governments play the taxpayers for fools … imposing higher taxes/fees and/or cutting services in the first years of their terms, while also under-estimating revenues … thus running up HUGE surpluses … and buying our votes with goodies before the next election.

The BC Liberals did it in 2016 … and I wrote about it at the time … TWICE: http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/bc-liberals-rip-off-taxpayers-to-amass-election-bribe-fund/ … and http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/use-730-million-surplus-to-get-rid-of-msp-premiums/

The Liberal surplus then … $730 Million.

That, I contended, was a RIPOFF of taxpayers: Governments are NOT supposed to be profit-making capitalist corporations … especially by gouging defenseless taxpayers, already struggling to ray rents, mortgages, Hydro, ICBC and over-priced AND over-taxed gasoline.

Governments are elected to collect ONLY what they really need to provide legislated services within their jurisdiction … and with hundreds of well-paid Finance Ministry economists and accountant, surely they can’t so consistently and so often under-estimate revenues by so much … that vote-buying can be so easily funded every four years!

Yet, here we go again.

The next BC provincial election is scheduled for Oct 16, 2021.

So, now it’s the NDP’s turn … right on schedule: Finance Minister Carole James has just reported a fiscal year operating surplus of $1.5 Billion!

“The higher-than-expected surplus is primarily the result of $2.9-billion in increased revenue, largely driven by higher personal and corporate income tax and new taxes including a speculation tax and employer health tax,” reported The Globe and Mail.

Get that? The surplus was “driven by higher personal and corporate income tax and new taxes”.

And according to BC Auditor General Carol Bellringer, the NDP is being modest: the REAL surplus is a whopping $7.2 Billion!!!!!

“What we’re saying is that the financial health of the province is actually better than reported and that the accumulation of [the surplus] is quite significant,” Bellringer has been quoted as saying.

Anything the Liberals could do to rip off the taxpayers, the NDP can do more???

Just imagine what the NFP/Greens and their supporters would have said if the Liberals reported a BILLION DOLLAR surplus!! Or what the independent Auditor General said was really a $7.2 BILLION surplus!!!!

Egad!

So look closely at the tax deductions on your next pay stub: by James’ own calculations, the NDP government is taking MORE from you than it can justify: and judging by the Auditor General’s figures, MUCH MORE than warranted.

Yet, like kids anticipating Christmas, we’ll all soon be looking forward to see what kinds of gifts and goodies this latest government is going to bestow upon us …. bought with our own money.

Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”—”the more things change, the more they continue to be the same thing.”

In the meantime, have a laugh: click on the links above to read what the partisan political Commenters on this Blog …. left and right … said of the Liberal surpluses when I wrote about back them.

And watch if they take the SAME positions now … that it’s the NDP ripping you off.

Harv Oberfeld

Note: You can hear more on this blog topic on HoweStreet.com: https://www.howestreet.com/2019/07/23/why-is-bc-government-under-reporting-massive-surplus/

(For more fun reading about the hypocrisy of our governments (at all levels) you can get First Alerts of new postings on this provocative Blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter.)

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39 Responses to NDP Surplus= Another Taxpayer Ripoff

  1. 13 says:

    Harvey, it is true that both the BCL and the NDP play with budget numbers. Some age old adage about liars and figures comes to mind. The conservative wave sweeping the planet is the pendulum swinging back from the far left. I know that I want some sort of government that can live within the tax regimes that are now in place. For that matter governments (all 3 levels) must begin to control spending and somehow begin to roll back taxes.
    Provincially the Horgan NDP have increased almost every tax that they could possibly increase.
    Federally the Trudeau Liberals are spending money and taxes that havent been collected yet. Likely spending taxes that are owed by Canadians that wont be born for another decade
    Oct will come and the insanity will stop.
    Right now the only thing that horgan has going for him is the lack of media scrutiny of his failing financial plans. Not just the media but the BC Libs and Wilkinson seem to be blind to the harm the NDP are causing with their walking the tightrope of being for and against just about everything.
    The only momentum the NDP have comes from BC Liberal initiatives that they inherited.

    (Response: I agree with you on the lack of media scrutiny. If I was still working, I …. and YOU … would have had a field day going after James, Horgan and several NDP MLAs over their Billion Dollar “surplus” … not just parrot as boringly as possible the government line and the Opposition response. Ho hum!! No wonder hundreds of thousands more watched local TV news back then than do now!!! h.o)

  2. Gene The Bean says:

    1) If anyone believes anything a government says, they need to have their heads examined.
    2) See #1.

    The playing field has been changed. The game has been changed. The expectations have been changed.

    My views and expectations of what the NDP says is exactly the same as the LIEberals or the Cons.

    It is just part of the de-evolution of our system.

    Hey, when the alleged leader of the free world can elect a bumbling, racist, xenophobic moron – do you really expect honesty and truth in ANY government. The times have changed.

    If you don’t want to drive yourself nuts, lower your expectations. It isn’t right – but it is reality.

    (Response: I suspect you’re right…but can’t let go of my dreams that one day, politicians will tell us the truth, keep their promises, spend wisely … and not try to bribe us with our own money. h.o.)

  3. r says:

    ICBC and with MSP monthly ending -will take care of that bump potentially

    BC debt about 68 billion right now.

    (Response: Interesting point. Maybe the NDP should pay down our debt …instead of using that $1 BILLION surplus to create new programs to bribe voters in the next election, but which that will increase the debt even more over time! h.o)

  4. e.a.f. says:

    We the tax payers are responsible for this. We created the “monster” of surpluses. We drank the cool aid of good fiscal management means surpluses. We kept electing Socreds and B.C. Lieberals on this one. the NDP having been always tarred with the not being good fiscal managers has picked up the “tool” which gets people elected.

    anything political parties do over an extended period of time, they do because it helps them get elected. We elect them.

    You could look at this way, it a method of creating a savings account and we the voters/citizen taxpayers get things we may or may not need but want.

    I’m O.K. with surpluses, as long as they don’t “short” people on social programs to get there. Extra fees and taxes along the way, its a savings program to pay for other things, like health care, education, and housing. Roads which get us to work on time doesn’t hurt either.

    Right now we’re getting more health care, schools, and perhaps even a tunnel and a better highway to Hope. The NDP has reduced money laundering and its very nicely caused prices of homes to come down in Greater Vancouver. Those types of things help and that tax they created on “empty homes” works for me.

    (Response: I love this stuff. This is what YOU wrote when I blogged about the Liberals setting up a $100 million Prosperity Fund with their surplus: “If we have such large surpluses why are the B.C. Lieberals still raiding B.C. Hydro, I.C.B.C. We don`t have a surplus. we are simply paying higher fees so it can be channelled into other pockets of the government.” I thought it was a good question then …so I’m sure you, like me, hopes someone asks the same of the NDP NOW, with their Billion Dollar surplus!! Why not LOWER our ICBC , Hydro rates with that surplus??? h.o)

  5. Don says:

    I can see you are going to have fun with this one 🙂 The theme seems to always be surplus only good if you take it from someone else and spend it on my pet projects.

    (Response: Not quite. Politically unaffiliated Seniors like me have no pet projects … most just try to keep up with all the rising costs that are well beyond the supposed “Cost of Living” index. Forgive us our little amusement … watching smugly how EACH party …and their supporters …deliver their lines about why THEIR surplus is good, but their Opponents’ surplus was bad, very bad … all without breaking out in guffaws of laughter. Let’s keep it real: they all rip us off … so they can then buy our votes with OUR bucks. h.o)

  6. D.M. Johnston says:

    Yikes, over taxed and the NDP know it.

    The Liberals gouged us with the so called “Carbon Tax” but it was just a replacement for their generous tax cuts given to the wealthy, nothing more.

    The NDP is more of the same hidden taxes and user fees so they can reward their base; and on and on it goes.

    The anti tax movement was started by Reagan by giving the wealthy generous tax breaks, paid for by increases user fees and taxes on the poor and it achieved what the Reaganites wanted, the destruction of the middle class.

    Campbell and his bleap, bleap bleap, brother are more of the same, anti tax propaganda but oh boy not any moans about increased user fees and taxes on the poor.

    The middle class is dying, my sons will never afford a home, unless they move to Clinton or in the “hurtlands” where jobs are scarce and amenities are thin gruel.

    The NDP surplus is nothing more than a photo-op. A crass exploitation of the uninformed.

    (Response: Can’t wait to see what goodies they plan to bestow on us with OUR money!! But I’ll bet very little ..maybe even none of it … will go to those British Columbians SENIORS living on pensions, who worked for 50 years, paid taxes for 50 years and are now struggling to pay all the rising taxes, Hydro, ICBC rates, other fees, gas billings etc the government throws at us each and every year … so they can build up surpluses to buy the votes of others. h.o)

  7. Harry lawson says:

    Harvey,

    I respect how you expose and question the hypocrisy of not only the government also our fellow posters.

    There’s only one taxpayer.

    A government changes the maitre de, the menu and table cloths change yet it is still a trough.

    I hope your heart and health is doing better. You gave us quite a scare.

    (Response: Doing quite fine, thanks. Not as great as I used to be …but at 74, still kicking, travelling, blogging, having fun …trying to give back to the province and country I love. And I do still enjoy … after being at it 50 years now (1969-2019) showing up the realities and hypocrisy of politicians on all sides of the political divide at all levels of governance…. provincially, nationally, federally…. and in the media. Ooops ..there goes my: Order of BC; Order of Canada; Lifetime Achievement Award … again! LOL! 🙂 h.o)

  8. Keith says:

    In your response to “R” # 3 you articulated what I was going to say.

    It would have been so easy for Carol James to make hay and lay it on thick about the doubling plus of the provincial debt under the liberals, that this and any further budgetary surpluses would go towards paying down the inherited debt, don’t want it to be a burden on our children and grandchildren because of the previous governments runaway spending blah blah blah.

    They have the political room to do something along those lines, would give the “NDP tax and spend party” critics not a lot to hang their hat on giving them something to counter those arguments, look good in the process, have a fiscal responsibility platform to run on in the next election with a contrast to the liberals fiscal track record.

    Won’t be the first opportunity lost to move the goalposts and won’t be their last.

    (Response: Maybe we can’t blame them: MOST voters have not traditionally rewarded fiscal responsibility and restraint; MOST love to be bribed, with spending, costly promises and goodies. But imagine how bad our debt …. now $691 Billion, would become if some of us didn’t keep calling out our politicians on their over-spending and over-taxing , and for example, we followed the US current model where the debt has now skyrocketed … under the once-concerned Republicans … to $22 TRILLION! h.o)

  9. Don says:

    off and topic for you or if you want to share re your response @ 7.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h6CDGpAIPc

    As to your reponse to me @ 5. My coment was that polititians like to take and redistribute based on their supporters. Those who are not activists or lobbiests are left in the cold paying the bill and losing.

    (Response: Great song! True! Meaningful … and exactly what I try to do ..each day. Including today… exactly how I felt strolling and enjoying Van Dusen Botanical Garden (where I am a member) … followed by a nice lunch out … and then, at home, taking time for those on my Blog. I feel very privileged, well rewarded … and blessed. Hmmm… maybe a good topic for a future Blog! 🙂 h.o)

  10. 13 says:

    D. M. J ‘my sons will never be able to afford a home……”
    I have 3 sons and by no stretch of anyone’s imagination are we a wealthy family. 2 of the 3 have owned homes in the lower mainland and elsewhere.
    Gordo, Christy, and Hulk Horgan have been the premiers since they got into the Vancouver market.
    So when I read or hear people crying for home prices to correct I ask myself why my hard working kids that havent had anything handed to them on a silver platter should suffer because others claim homes are unaffordable.
    No doubt about it. Homes in the lower mainland are expensive. BUT NOT EVERY HOME bought in the past 6 years was bought by a wealthy Chinese buyer. When the Horgan crowd boast that they are getting control of home prices I almost vomit. All Horgan is doing is screwing hard working people like my kids. The wealthy Chinese just buy at slightly lower prices.
    The Federal Gov is the culprit that allows immigration and migration that has driven prices up and put stress on all of our social services. Stop immigration? NO . Control immigration ? Yes.

  11. BMCQ says:

    A great analysis and essay on this topic Harvey, it is really something that does not get dissected often enough regardless of which political party is in power in B.C. .

    Having said that the NDP have never really had to struggle too much with Surplus Books ! Hmmmm, I wonder why ?

    Oh well at this point they have the advantage of inheriting an even larger Surplus than what was anticipated and then of course there are ALL of the new increases in Tax of every kind including
    Carbon, Employer Health Care MSP Tax where in my case I am paying DOUBLE because the company was already covering MSP and Extended for the Hard Working Employees .

    Then of course there all of the other Taxes and Fees including ICBC, Empty Homes, Property Taxes which contrary to popular believe affect Private, Industrial, Commercial, Property Owners Renters of the same, and so many more .

    https://theprovince.com/news/bc-politics/mike-smyth-b-c-businesses-blindsided-by-new-taxes-in-ndp-budget

    Of course Media for the most part have ignored the increased taxes, fees, and licenses .

    I can see Speculation Tax for Numbered Companies and Off Shore for sure, it should have always been the way but the Federal Government of several incarnations ignored the fact that Foreign/Chinese were purchasing property and in fact cornering the market with Government asleep at the switch .

    Then there is the Vander Zalm Property Transfer
    Tax which remains in place .

    Government talks about making Housing affordable and so on, why not do something about Prop Transfer Tax, and Property Tax ?

    Keep in mind that the Hard Working, Employed, Tax Paying People already pay the highest Rents, Mortgages, and Property Taxes in Canada .

    And the NDP Government wants MORE Tax and Fees from those same Hard Working Tax Payers ? Really ?

    It is long past time for the B.C. Government of any Brand to be more Transparent and not quite so dishonest with how the B.C. Budget rolls out .

    Hopefully Media keep on this, especially the perhaps several $ Billion more in the Surplus .

    This Government and others are/have been playing a “Shell Game” with the Tax Payers and it is more than underhanded .

    Then to top it all off the NDP Pander to their Special Interest Groups by awarding them largesse from that surplus .

    Far too often with SJW NDP and Federal Liberal Governments the Surplus Funds gto to Pay Off their Supporter Special Interests . Unfortunately far too much of the time those Special Interests NEVER pay any tax of any kind .

    No wonder Hard Working, Employed Tax Payers are Fed Up !!

    13 – 1 –

    An absolute Gem of a Post, one of the best I have seen on this Blog since my arrival August 2015 !!

    Harvey – 4 – response

    Incredibly good response !

    the B.C. Government needs to do something about the Property Transfer Tax, it is unreasonable and out of control, it is now being used as a Cash Cow .

    That applies to both the Liberal and NDP Government .

    All Politicians talk about “Affordable Housing” and then they hit the Purchaser already saddled with a high mortgage with the Prop Transfer Tax and then unreasonably high Property Tax, that needs to end and it should be an election issue .

    the Property Purchase Tax should not apply to Canadian Citizens and Housing Purchases of less than $ 2 million Dollars .

    The Province already has enough of a Surplus, time those that Pay Tax Benefit !

    Time for Government to get creative .

    And seeing that we are all still here .

    Government needs to cut back on frivolous spending and government at all three levels needs to find efficiencies .

    the Tax Payer cannot take any more .

    (Response: Interesting points, but let’s keep it real: EVERY government (Libs, Tories, NDP) generously REWARDS its backers and supporters first and then uses the rest of their surpluses ..not to lower working people’s/seniors taxes … but to SPEND on new goodies, designed to solidify old votes and buy new votes the next time around. And it was not the NDP that invented that formula; remember Tories and Liberals were in power in several provinces and federally well before the CCF/NDP ever formed government anywhere. But clearly, they have learned how it works … and are now just as hypocritical as the rest. h.o)

  12. Gene The Bean says:

    Harvey, your response to my comment made me smile. Ya, we all wish that would happen. I’m sure every single person here would wish for that.

    The change occurred when ‘chasing the dollar’ became more important than anything else. It is an insidious mindset that drives some to want all the power and control and pollutes some peoples thinking to support them even though they are being used and will never achieve anything more than survival.

    The lack of caring and morality in our society is appalling. Me Me Me More More More. How many vacation homes do you need?

    When I was a kid my Grandma would cook for poorer people in the area and have me deliver it to them. Today, half the neighbourhood would be petitioning to have “those people” removed.

    Politics seems to continue to divide us into two camps. Those who have to play the game and will try and institute policies and programs to actually help people – ALL people. The other camp invented the game to try and keep their privilege and power and do not give a rats petunia about anyone, or anything, except the almighty dollar and themselves.

    We now have 7 billion people on this little spinning rock we call home. Should the aptly named Cons continue to seek all the power by instilling hatred and division – well, once the oceans warm and rise and all the weather changes and causes widespread food shortages – it wont matter how much money, influence or ‘privilege’ you have. India is undergoing widespread water shortages now …. Pakistan has lots of water. Hmmmm…. wonder how that will end.

    Politics for the few, not the many is a fools game. I sincerely hope we correct it before it is too late.

    (Response: Your mention of “chasing the dollar” exposes the REAL tragedy of our times: even in our relatively affluent, much more technologically advanced society, more and more people are struggling MORE than our parents and grandparents did …. almost unable now to put a roof over their heads and make it from paycheck to paycheck. My parents were “poorer” than MANY of the educated, well employed professionals today… BUT my parents were not only able to buy a HOUSE in Montreal, my mother also stayed HOME to raise the kids, and we not only had a car but took a few weeks summer cottage vacations in the Laurentians or even several weeks in Plattsburgh NY. … and after the kids were grown up and out of the house, my folks were able to enjoy several weeks in Florida each winter. Today … people have BETTER jobs, BETTER conditions, BETTER technologies ..BUT we are so OVERTAXED … to the point of strangulation … by every level of government that even those working in good jobs can barely survive…. and don’t even dream of buying a house. And when the government …any government … reports a BILLION DOLLAR surplus…the MEDIA reports it … with all the emotion of a weather forecast … and just moves on. Disgraceful! They should be MOBILIXZING THE people by asking TOUGH QUESTIONS of the politicians who did this to us ..again … and then do story after story of people struggling to make ends meet …and ask THEM what they think of the SURPLUS!!! h.o)

  13. e.a.f. says:

    I objected to the “prosperity fund” because I considered it bullshit. There wasn’t much prosperity in the province. We had the highest rate of child poverty in Canada and Christy Clark was taking nickel for nickel child support money from children, whose custodial parent was on disability and living at 50% below the poverty line. Wasn’t happy about B.C. Rail, B.C. Hydro run of the river, the stupid meters, well the whole list of things which you can find over at Laila Yuile’s blog of 100 reasons the B.C. Lieberals need to go.

    If the NDP doesn’t have this surplus come election time, the B.C. Lieberals will be using it in an election campaign, the NDP can’t manage money, the can’t create a surplus, they’re spend, spend, spend. Remember the name of the game for the NDP is win the next election.

    Also, given el gordo blew the money Glen Clark left in the kitty, if the NPD don’t win and leave a surplus, they can use the argument in the following election that the B.C. Lieberals were left a surplus of $xxxBillion and blew it and ran up a deficit. (The B.C. Lieberals liked to say they ran a surplus, but they never did. The province had debt. they borrowed $750M from the Germany banks when the bought those two Germany ferries and charged it to the Ferry corporation. B.C. Hydro and ICBC were forced to cough up $500M each year, and B.C. Hydro had to borrow that money. That wasn’t a surplus the b.c. lieberals ran.

    Yes of course the NDP could be using the money for affordable housing, another hospital, but why do it now, when it might be needed to get re elected. its how the game is played these days, so lets be real about it Harvey.

    the empty house tax is a fairly good tax. more places to rent. As to people’s children not being able to purchase houses in the cities they grew up in, well most people were fine with rising house prices while they were selling them and their kids were younger. Now the chickens have come home to roost. No one wanted the “game” to stop and now its going to. money laundering in the housing market, was estimated to have been as high as 20% in Vancouver, so any tax which stops that, I’m good with. If the money is going into a surplus account, fine because I don’t ever want to see the B.C. Lieberals back in office again. Yes, both sides can do it and all those conservative types can no longer say Horgan can’t learn anything. He just did! One of the things the Scoreds and B.C. Lieberals always used against the NDP was they weren’t money managers. Well with a surplus like they have now, no one can say that again……….

  14. DBW says:

    Well if the worst thing the NDP does is run a surplus in its first budget then all is good.

    They are now part way through their second budget. Let’s see if a pattern emerges before we get too wound up.

    Here’s my question. What should we do with this surplus?

    Do we save it for those economic downturns that regularly occur? Do we help say forest industry? Do we use it to pay for some projects that maybe aren’t necessary but sure would be nice? Do we pay down the debt? Do we cut taxes?

    Once we know what the NDP plan to do with the surplus, we will have something to discuss.

    (Response: I have a GREAT idea: why don’t they give back the excess they ripped off to the people who they actually stole from by taking more than they needed? Especially retired seniors … who worked and paid taxes for 30 or 40 or 50 years …and are living on puny pensions, but facing HUGE increases in government taxes, fees, charges almost every where they turn. h.o.)

  15. BMCQ says:

    you ask what should the Province do with the Surplus so I suppose my miscellaneous Ramblings on this idea are within topic .

    First of all any good government must ensure that thee is a Base Surplus when the economy is healthy, some may choose to create a “Heritage or Rainy Day” Fund and that may not be all bad .

    Just might that number/percentage be depends on the Government and the Electorate/Polls .

    Having said that I am quite sure each individuals opinion on that may change depending on their ideology and politics .

    Some may want to pay down the Provincial Debt, and there is some merit in that .

    Then there are some like me that would like to firstly see Efficiencies in Government at all Three Levels so Surplus or Tax Reduction for the Employed Hard Working Tax Paying Wealthy and not so Wealthy have a somewhat easier path and perhaps less Government Bureaucracy, Waste, and Bloat . What a novel idea .

    We could also finally begin to STOP Enabling Drug Addicted Felons, mostly White and First Nations Males who choose to ruin their lives by making poor choices .

    a high percentage of those are in B.C. from other jurisdictions and on Non Returnable Warrants .
    Ship them back to face the Courts in their Home Province and we may be rid of them, it would be worth the investment .

    IMHO Tax Dollars would be better spent on putting Seniors who worked and contributed in Downtown SRO Housing where hey are close to everything they need, groceries, movies, Dr. Hospital, and everything else needed .

    The streets would all of a sudden come alive and the retail business would flourish and crfeat employment, pay rents and taxes . Imagine that !

    On top of that it would make neighbourhoods safe and create a real sense of community, just as it once was .

    I see the Province just made operational a new PET Scanner in Victoria, how many of those could we put in place in various Regions in B.C.?

    Why not put in High Tech Cancer Treatment Centres in ALL Regions of B.C., it would not take too many surplus Budgets to accomplish that .

    Imagine not having to travel the Province so your family member can get the Health Care desired !!

    Then of course there is the need for transportation like Massey Tunnel a Surrey to Chilliwack Rapid Train, how much difference would that make to traffic volume ?

    Then of course what about a Sky Train “At Grade” between the Hwy 99 Lanes from King George to the Richmond Canada Line continuing Downtown, that would eliminate the Bottle Neck at the Oak St. Bridge because at least 50% of the travels would no longer be by Car .

    We are now in the midst of a Federal Election, why are the Mensa Member NDP Cabinet not approaching the Conservatives or the Liberals for Promises/Commitments on any of this ?

    If it is true and B.C. may have up to $ 6 Billion Plus Surplus we could accomplish a lot .

    Stop Enabling Drug Addicted Felons and cut down on Government bloat and that Budget Surplus might even be larger .

    We can also immediately QUASH the soon to be Tsunami of Government Public Sector PTSD and Stress Leave Boondoggle, believe it or not that cost to the Tax Payer alone will reach over $ 1 Billion Dollars each year before the end of the Horgan four year term .

    Just watch it, it is just beginning .

    The Auditor General and Media must do their job on all of this and the Province of B.C. could be a lot of things for a lot of people, all of them good .
    As things now look the Province of B.c. may well save $ 500 Million Dollars on Forest Fires this year, that could also make a difference to the Budget Surplus .

    We must not allow this opportunity to escape us, who knows what might happen in the future .

    At the same time the NDP Government can regain the trust and respect of the tax Payer by rolling back some of their unscrupulous Taxation
    Policies .

    This is a Golden opportunity for the NDP and if they play their cards right they could win re-election well into the future .

    The question is this, Can They and Will They ?

  16. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, one thing that bothers me is the all governments toss around figures like, it’s only a million, it’s only a billion, well here is a little eye-opener, a million seconds is plus or minus about 11 days, a billion seconds is plus or minus 32 years, so when somebody in gov’t says it’s only a billion or so, they have no friggin idea.

    (Response: Seems trivial to them … because it’s not THEIR money they’re spending or ripping from the taxpayers. Also bugs me when they say whatever latest tax on gas is only “one cent a liter”: sure …but that’s on top of all the other “one-cents” or “two-cents” they’ve added on every year..or every six months …for years! Too bad the inquiry on gas prices can’t look at that … and how it has all added up! h.o)

  17. e.a.f. says:

    Art, I hate to break it to you, but a million isn’t much anymore. You need it to purchase a fairly ordinary house in Richmond, Vancouver, Burnaby, North Vancouver. So a million just isn’t what it used to be.
    Now a billion, that is a fair amount of change, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t do much, when governments start working on projects. It cost a few billion to build a bridge, some miles of highway.

    Money just doesn’t go as far as it used to and we who are aging baby boomers, don’t always keep up with the prices of the day. I noticed that with older people when I was young.

    I remember a time when a person won a million in the lottery. It was retirement time. Now its perhaps we can buy a house, some where south of the Fraser.

  18. Gene The Bean says:

    I think governments at all levels need to take the boots to the companies and contractors that bid and do work on the public dime. The companies collude on pricing and play bait and switch, A few agree to vastly inflate the price while one company underbids them. Then the next time they switch. It is just organized crime.

    The other problem is no one seems to stick to the contract anymore. The cost overruns on the last five big projects in BC are about a billion dollars – that is unacceptable and is just a wink wink arrangement with the corporatist elite.

    We are paying 35% more for construction, paving, highway maintenance etc etc just because those contractors somehow set the rules. Screw them. Lets play some hardball. Lets see how the largest paving company in the Province reacts after not getting any work for a season. Crappy that workers would be losing work but the owner doesn’t need a second yacht.

    Same as the work that gets done for Strata’s. It is mostly all inflated 30% over what they would charge a regular homeowner or business. Like taxpayer dollars, Strata’s costs are shared by the many and the contractors take advantage.

    A dozen years ago I served on a Strata and our landscaping costs were going up 15% a year. I took over the file and met with them and the guy essentially told me there is nothing I can do, they have 75% of the market and they set the terms, I shouldn’t care as the costs are split by 50 units. He wouldn’t even engage and gave me that smarmy smile as he drove off in a brand new $80K truck. Well, where there is a will, there is a way. I found a brand new two man crew in town (who happened to be new immigrants from Ireland) and made them a proposal. This amount of money for this amount of work – good for them good for us. It was contingent upon me getting them at least four other strata contracts, which I did. They hired a couple of new guys and had work five days a week plus all the extras like irrigation etc. Our strata’s bill dropped by over $7000 a year. The other local strata’s had similar results. The best part is that the guy that lost all the work was the smarmy ahole who said “there is nothing you can do about it.”

    You can whine and complain or do something about it. People can only take advantage if you let them.

  19. BMCQ says:

    No matter what the cost of Real Estate happens to be $ 1 Million Dollars is still a lot of Money , That is of course unless you are a Leftist politician, a Party Pimp with control of Tax Payer Dollars, a Federal, Provincial, or Municipal Government Department Head or an Unemployed SJW who is out Fighting Progress of Industry, ANY Industry .

    ALL Politicians, Public Sector Workers, Poverty Pimp SJW and Protest types should keep in mind that as H.O. said “There is ONLY ONE Tax Payer and in B.C. YVR that Tax Payer is stretched as far as can be attempting to pay Carbon Tax, Speculation Tax, Property Transfer Tax, high Gas Prices, ICBC, High Mortgage, Rents, Property Tax, and so many more already mentioned earlier on this Blog Topic .

    The actual Employed and Retired Tax Payer regardless of Income Level that built/build this Province and Country are right now under threat and they need the assist of ALL Levels of Government to be more Efficient and control Waste .

    We all take waste into mind in our personal lives and in private industry, why would government not consider that ?

    A $ Million Dollars is ALWAYS a lot of money, if one does not recognize that YOU are Part of the Problem !!

    BTW

    $ 1 Million Dollars barely purchases a 1 Bedroom Unit in a Yale Town Building .

    It is always SO easy for those in Government or those in the Activist SJW and PC Sectors/Industries to spend and receive Tax Payers Dollars, isn’t that correct Jenny Kwan ?

    As a Wise Woman once said,

    “Socialism works wonderfully well, that is of course until one runs out of other Peoples Money” !!

  20. 13 says:

    OMG I agree with Bean. Well sort of. Just a little.
    Hes right governments need to play hardball with contractors and everyone that bids on government work. Add to that governments need to play hardball with public sector workers. Stop governments from dictating which unions are allowed to bid on contracts ( right Mr Horgan).

  21. DBW says:

    Let’s start with the obvious.

    When Conservative type governments balance a budget or run a surplus, critics are quick to point out that it was done at the expense of social programs.

    When NDP type governments balance a budget or run a surplus, critics are quick to point out that it was done at the expense of higher taxes.

    The critics on both sides are probably correct. After the Liberals lost power in 2017, some Liberal supporters suggested that they could have easily won a majority had deJong been less stingy, had he raised taxes to pay for badly needed reforms.

    The NDP are now trying to correct some of the Liberal negligence, and to do so they have raised taxes.

    There is definitely a fine line somewhere.

    Right now, I have no problem with what the NDP have done. But they have to be careful and maybe last year’s surplus can be used as an actual warning. They did stuff and still ran a surplus. That suggests that some tax relief may be possible, but it should definitely mean that any new taxes are unnecessary.

    And out of curiosity, what is usually done with government surpluses?

    In your response at #3 you suggested paying down the debt; at #4 you suggested some relief for ICBC and BC Hydro; at #6 you doubted that none of the money would go to programs to help seniors suggesting that you would be OK if the money were spent that way; and at #14 you suggested that the money go back to the taxpayers?

    Do governments actually do something with the surplus or does it just get rolled into general revenues for the following year? What is the future accounting for that money?

    (Response: ANY of the options I cited deal with the FACT that the misdeed (crime?) has already occurred and the proceeds are already in the hands of the thieves: in this case, the NDP; in the past, the Liberals. So they could partly do all/any of the above. Unfortunately, the tradition seems to be to make NEW promises: candy to buy votes in the next election. (I’d bet child care spaces, maybe new home purchase loans?) Of course, that will just add MANY millions of dollars to ongoing needs … thus requiring the raising of MORE taxes, fees etc AFTER the next election. That’s why “Tax Freedom Day” doesn’t occur until mid-June now … meaning people who work now turn over more than HALF of everything they earn to governments each year. It makes people feel betrayed, lied to, angry etc.… with mounting numbers of them struggling more and more to just pay rents, Hydro, transit, groceries, clothing, etc ..MOST now losing hope of every being able to buy a home. And government OVER_TAXING beyond what they really need … for years … is making it worse. While a complacent …or incompetent… media let’s them get away with it almost without questioning. h.o)

  22. Gene The Bean says:

    13 at @ #20

    It’s OK. I’m sure the feeling will pass…..

  23. BMCQ says:

    Being that I am most of the time a “People Kind” of very few words I will not say too much or pass any comment on this particular post but I will attach something from the Huff Post that some or all should find of interest .

    Food for Thought or ?

    https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sarah-miller2/bc-surplus_b_7821072.html

    (Response: As I said, the Liberals played the fake surplus game too. And perhaps that contributed to their downfall? A lesson for the NDP now. h.o)

  24. e.a.f. says:

    Gene the Bean, loved it! I’ve seen what strata companies do to owners. Some even buy into it. You didn’t.

    Back in the day, Bill Bennett Jr. decided to privitize highway maintenance. winter highways have never been clear again, not like they were when it was done by government workers. Over on Vancouver Is. part of the Inland highway was so pot holed all cars used to get into one lane until it was over. Now there is a new company but who knows how much it has cost the government. they privitized provincial camp grounds and then they put reservations in place, most of us can’t get into camp grounds anymore. Now the free enterprises will think this is all great, free enterprise is making money, but we the majority, not so much and we have to pay for it. \

    The time may have come for governments to have their own “firm”. to deal with all of this and cut the middle man out, namely the “free enterprisers”. No more SNC lavalin’s, no more huge cost over runs on site C., etc. At the rate things are going there will be enough work for a decade or so. Set it up as a Crown corporation and run it like a company. Its not hard to do and no political appointees on boards or senior jobs.

    As to unions bidding, Unions don’t bid, companies do. Of course lets not forget some companies made it their goal to eliminate unionized companies from bidding on government projects. Now what was the name of that guy out in the Fraser Valley who was so into that. Unionized jobs pay more and then people actually have more money to spend in the community. People making $15 an hr or under or for that matter, $25 an hr. and under, can’t make ends meet. can’t buy houses, barely make ends meet because of the high cost of real estate and please don’t blame that on poverty junkies or whatever BMCQ decides we are. we are in the mess we are because governments didn’t do their jobs and except for the last 2 years, it was a Socred/B.C. Lieberal/conservative cabal. if this province is a mess, then it rests with the Socred/B.C. Lieberal cabal who ran this province for most of the last century and into this one.

    Harvey, in response to 21, these are all services people want and ask for. We have only to turn on the t.v. when a child dies in an unlicensed day care. Then we have the scenes of reno victions. people want it all but none of them want to pay for it or if they do, there are others such as some of the commenters here who don’t think the government ought to pay for it, etc.

    As many of us who comment here get older, wait until you need care and find your pension doesn’t cover your needs. You’ll be screaming at who ever is the government of the day. Yes, it all costs money and we either start with a decent tax plan and forget all the fees and get on with providing services people need. BMCQ you can talk all about poverty pimps, etc. but come over to Nanaimo and have a look. well go look anywhere. Not all are drug addicts living in the camps. Some of them once lived “normal” lives, but got priced out of their apartments. As one homeless person said back in the 1980s, if you weren’t crazy when you hit the streets, you’d be crazy in a year of being on the street.

    We need a national housing plan. we need affordable housing for those who live “regular” lives but simply do not have the financial means either due to low salaries or a lack of money from pensions to put a decent roof over their heads, and then we require social housing, for people with “issues”, mental illness, drug addictions.

    Horgan is doing nothing that the Socred/B.C. Lieberals have done for eons. At least this time we have more money going into the school system, health and social housing. they’ve even managed to look at plans for a second tunnel and expanding the highway out to Langley.

    (Response: “We need”. “we need”, “We need” … yes, WE NEED lots of services … but surely taxpayers also NEED to be able to pay to support themselves and their families! When so many WORKING people can barely pay their rent, hydro, cable, transit and clothes/care for themselves. So when governments are already takes more than HALF of every dollar people earn, and we still can’t adequately provide funding for EXISTING programs, surely the NDP provincial government should NOT be ripping taxpayers off to the tune of a BILLION DOLLAR SURPLUS and also be planning to introduce NEW spending programs that WORKING taxpayers will have to fund on top of all they’re paying for now!!! h.o)

  25. BMCQ says:

    Of course we ALL agree to more responsibility and accountability from Design to General Contractor, Bidder Contractors, Government Oversight, and all other parts of the Public Building Process, thst is simply common sense .

    Some Projects are Fixed Price Contracts but not enough of them .

    Then of course we have a recent NDP Horgan enacted silly symbolic “Community Benefit” Contracts Which will increase the Cost of Pattullo Bridge and every other Provincial Project by at least 25% or more without providing the Tx Payer any more for their investment . But then does not really matter because the Tax Payer really has nothing else to spend their money on, the cost of living in B.C. is so cheap that Tax Payer can easily afford those “Community Benefits” !

    What a Scam .

    (Response: I actually like the Community Benefit concept for major infrastructure projects…IF it does not add ridiculous amounts to the cost. It certainly could help workers in many communities … esp remote areas …get employed …instead of importing “temporary” workers from outside … including cheaper labour from China. In fact, I wish Trudeau and Horgan had the backbone to LEGISLATE that Canadian steel etc be used on government projects … and ban imports from the US, China for public works … just like Trump/US has done to us, blocking out our steel industry despite the supposed steel tariff truce. h.o)

  26. 13 says:

    @eaf24
    “Horgan isdoing nothing thatthe Socred/BC LIEerals have done for eons”

    Think for a moment about what you just wrote. Think about the hypocrisy of such a statement.

    At the very leaste maybe you can come up with a slang twist for the No Damned Plan. (Edited..h.o)

  27. DBW says:

    OK, if BMCQ can link an article critical of the BC Liberals, then I can link a report from – gasp – the Fraser Institute.

    Harvey, you mentioned tax freedom day so I searched it. It is calculated by the Fraser Institute who are no friend of taxes.

    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/tax-freedom-day-2019.pdf

    I didn’t read the whole 12 pages because long lists of numbers are unnerving, but I did find the chart on p. 3 interesting.

    In 1981, tax freedom day in BC was June 9. Last year, it was June 12 and this year the estimate is June 10.

    The peak for all provinces/Canada was 2000-2005 when the day was late June and sometimes into July, but it has declined pretty steadily since.

    I am not trying to justify the NDP surplus (generally I am opposed to surpluses) nor am I suggesting that there shouldn’t be tax relief, but the report seems to indicate that governments are not over burdening taxpayers any more now than they have for the past 40 years.

    The reason I am not a fan of surpluses is because it takes money out of the economy for no apparent reason. I would treat this year’s surplus as a windfall and suggest divvying it up among municipalities for much needed infrastructure upgrades. $1.5B/4M people is about $400/person. A city of 10,000 gets $4M a city of 100,000 gets $40M etc.

    You might also find this personal tax freedom day calculator interesting. A single 70 year old reaches tax freedom day 2-3 weeks sooner than a single 30 year old with the same income. Maybe not as much as we would like but we seniors do get some tax relief that others don’t.

    https://www.fraserinstitute.org/tax-freedom-day-calculator

    (Response: I am well aware of the biases/philosophies attributed to both the Fraser Institute on the right and, for example, the Centre for Policy Alternatives on the left. Nevertheless I have found BOTH often do credible studies/work … even if I don’t like their study results. h.o)

  28. 13 says:

    Please correct me if Im wrong but community benefits = hiring women and minorities, and indigenous. What if the woman, minority , and indigenous worker does not belong to a Horgan approved union. Many unions especially Horgan approved unions do not allow walk in sign ups. Some are so tightly controlled that if your daddy didnt belong you really have zero chance of joining the union

  29. G. Barry Stewart says:

    13 @ 26, quoting E.A.F.: “Horgan is doing nothing that the Socred/B.C. Lieberals have done for eons.”

    It might not mean what E.A.F. meant to say — but there’s nothing hypocritical in the words as-written. We usually say a double-negative, like “nothing they haven’t done,” meaning… “they’re all the same.”

    In E.A.F.’s sentence, she stops half way, giving us a 180º, rather than the full 360. Personally, I see it more like a 300º, as I’m against the continuance of Site C and the push for LNG — both BC Lib initiatives.

    • •  • • •

    As far as the surplus goes: as BMCQ points out, a bad fire season could have easily wiped out a good chunk of that.

    So far, we’re getting off very easily — and tourism is up, because of the lack of smoke. $Ka-ching!

    Balancing a budget on the edge of a penny would be no small feat, when a government has so many plates to keep spinning at once. I’m not worked up about them missing the mark by going into the black.

    They missed it by roughly $400 per person, if we go with the $1.5 billion figure. On the other hand, daily drivers of the tolled bridges more than made that back — and commerce in general benefitted from the axing of those tolls.

    I’ll be interested is seeing how they give it back to us. I’ll bet on ‘candy’ rather than dull stuff, like paying down the infrastructure debt.

    (Response: Bet the candy will cost a LOT more over the following years than it seems when they hand it out. So …of course, they’ll need to raise taxes …again. h.o)

  30. BMCQ says:

    Harvey – 25 – response

    You are partially correct .

    As an operator of a Unionized Canadian Manufacturing and Export Company I agree with you about Foreign Workers .

    Unless thee is absolutely o way for Projects to acquire Local Canadian Workers for any project Foreign Workers should not be allowed .

    If allowed and in many cases they should be allowed those Foreign Workers should be employed under exactly the same Employment Standards and Salary/Benefit Agreements as other Local Workers . No Exceptions .

    Please keep in mind, we have fairly low unemployment at this time and then we have far too many Canadians that are NOT willing to work for any reason so sometimes we may require Foreign Workers but under the correct conditions .

    As to your comments regarding “Community Benefits .

    Work is relatively scarce in so-called Remote Areas, there is and should NOT be any need for Community Benefits as there are people already looking for work . I hope ?

    “Community Benefits” is an NDP PC SJW Scam purpetrated against the Tax Payer of Canada, B.C., and YVR, where Horgan and his Minions are Pandering to their Base .

    Community Benefits increases a Publicly Funded Job Costs from anywhere between 10% and 25%, depending on the circumstances.

    Again, to paraphrase Harvey, HOW MUCH MORE can the Tax Payer absorb and take ?

    You yourself mentuon Carbon Tax, Gas tax, ICBC, Property tax, Rents, Mortgages, and ALL fo the other Horgan Induced Tax Rip Offs !!!!

    by the end of Broadway Tunnel which is totally unnecessary, Pattullo, Surrey Sky Train, Hwy 1 Expansion, Massey Project, Site C, and many more which make sense and are worth while we could easily TOP $ 1 Billion Dollars in Community Benefits alone !! HELLO !!

    I would darly love to hear the Auditor Comment on that !! Would also love to see a written Report from Auditor on this Boondoggle !!

    With the IMPROVED USMC soon to be enacted the U.S., Mexico, and Canada will then have a Fair and Balanced Trade deal in place that is beneficial to all three countries . A much better deal for the U.S. than what NAFTA was .

    Steel and all of the rest will be Free Trade if enacted as it appears.

    Purchaers in any of those countries should be ale to purchase steel or anything else under the USMC Guidelines .

    Trump WAS 100% correct in his Trade stance against Mexico and Canada . the new agreement will work well and Canada will benefit from the Break Trump gave us on Supply Management, he did not need to do that .

    There will be NO need for Canada to Legislate anything on Steel and most others .

    As an exporter of Manufactured Product to scores of Countries World Wide and the U.S. my Companies benefit from Free Trade with the U.S. which means the Employees also benefit .

    As you suggest Canada a NOW FREE United Kingdom, the EU, Australia, Japan, Korea, Japan and ALL of the Worlds Free Nations should form a Trade Alliance against China to suppoert DJT and the U.S. against China and its Dangerous, Illegal, and Unscrupulous Trade Practices before it is too late .

    Premier Horgan can stand up to China as well, thee are more than enough Chinese National Agents now living in B.C. and YVR to get the Message back to the Totalitarian Chinese Government and it’s Emperor !!

    The only reason Canadian Steel, Aluminum, and others were excluded from entry to the U.S. was because of UNFAIR NAFTA .

    Of course Business Giant, Eagle Eyed, Mensa Member, and SJW PM Justin was TOO Disengaged to include a Softwood Lumber deal in with the NAFTA replacement USMC, that would have made far too much sense .

    What a Gargantuan Failure that was !! Not to mention imbecilic !

    I am absolutely Sickened to see the B.C. Budget surplus which was earned of the Sacrifices, Blood Sweat and Tears of Employed, Hard Working, Tax Paying B.C. Workers of ALL Income Levels going to Poverty Pimps NGOs, Community Benefits, Social Housing for Drug Addled Criminal Felons, and so many illegitimate groups that contribute absolutely nothing to the Good of Society !

    How can we allow Government to do this to us ?

    BTW

    For those that Mumboe On about schools and Hospitals Finally being built ?

    Virtually each and every one of those Projects was already announced and in fact Rolled Out by the previous B.C. Liberal Government !!

    YOU ARE NOT allowed your own set of facts .

    (Response: I notice you failed to address Trump/US new rule that ONLY US steel is to be used in GOVERNMENT projects …regardless of the new NAFTA agreement. If Trump/US do that to us …we should do the same here … require GOVERNMENT projects in Canada use Canadian steel etc ! h.o)

  31. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey, our taxes compared to those in Europe aren’t that high at all. Its who is paying the taxes in this country that is creating problems.

    Post Media is getting a “tax break” from the federal government to the tune of $8 million to $10 Million a year because business is bad, yet their CEO is making $1.2 million a year, receiving another $1.2 million and $5 million in stock options in a YEAR. the 5 top CEOs at Post Media are making $10M a year, so we the tax payers are in fact paying fore their salaries and bonuses.

    If we look at the “breaks” resource corporations received while Christy Clark was in office, this province left enough money on the table for corportions to have made affordable day care a fact of life.

    As to your comment regarding, we need, we need, but the taxpayers need……. Well its the tax payers who are doing the asking, insisting. People who don’t work don’t need affordable or $10 a day care, its the working tax payers who want better and affordable day care because it can cost you a thousand a month per child. Everyone needs a doctor and the most vocal about it are those who are educated enough to lobby and get to politicians. Most of the people demanding services are those who are working. what no one wants to do is pay for it.

    People in this province are having difficult time making ends meet because of the high cost of housing. its that simple. Salaries simply have not risen while the cost of housing has gone through the roof. At one time it was considered people ought to pay no more than 25%, than 30% of their salaries on housing. Now people pay 50% of their income on housing, if not more and they still need health care, they NEED affordable day care for their children

    The problem as I see it in this country is an inequitable tax system and the give away of our natural resources. Even Gordon Campbell managed to get more for gas and oil than Christy clark did. Even though Christy Clark’s government sold more of the stuff, they made less. For all the details, go over to Norm Farrell’s blog, In-Sight.ca. He has all the figures regarding the money the governments aren’t collecting.

    Its much like the U.S.A., during their “golden years” with IKE as President, corporate taxes were 80% and the U.S.A did very well and built an amazing infrastructure. In the 1960s corporations paid 80% of the taxes in the country and people the other 20%. by the 1990s that figure had reversed itself, so of course people have less money to spend on the necessities of life. Its time to stop the corporate welfare in this country and start taxing corporations and build a stock of affordable housing (I didn’t write social house–affordable housing) In the Netherlands 40% of the housing stock is owned by the government.

    Everyone loves to hold up Norway as a great country and it is. Its great because the government provides all sorts of services, from cradle to grave. However people pay a lot more in taxes in Norway than they do in North America.

    all those people who NEED things, are the working taxpayers of the province. Lets not get distracted by the homeless here or the social issues around it, its the schools where kids go whose parents are working taxpayers. its health care, like in getting prenatal care and seniors needing hip replacements, etc–its the working middle class who is asking and needing.

    In the mid 1970s, I was making $25k a year. My rent was $375, in Kits with an ocean view and swimming pool and the condos going for sale, down the street were listed for $35K. In 1978 you could purchase a home in MacKenzie Heights, with an ocean view for $128K. its the cost of housing,

  32. 13 says:

    @GBS
    Thanks for explaining why eaf can claim that Horgan is allowed to act in the manner of previous right wing governments. eaf makes many comments that require close scrutiny. Taxes that are onerous in BC are okay because she points out that somewhere else on the planet another group of people are taxed even heavier. She allows herself a lot wiggle room
    BUT when she continually points out our child poverty rates she never bothers to scan the planet to compare how much worse children suffer in other regions.
    Its the the use of facts and figure that support her 180 degree point of view without looking 360 degrees elsewhere when it suits her narrative. Or making ridiculous comparisons when it does support her narrative.

  33. BMCQ says:

    The U.S., Mexico, and Canada should live up to the USMC Agreement that is about to be ratified, I believe Mexico has already signed the Document . Notice Mexico signed on right away ? Mexico understands that USMCA works for that country, Canada should do the same, again a drastic mistake for Canada to not include a Softwood component .

    I did not mention the Trump Government declaration because I was under the impression that the Tariffs have been lifted on Canadian Steel and Aluminum .

    https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-fi-trump-lifts-some-steel-tariffs-20190517-story.html

    Frankly I do not care if people do not like Trump but he is getting action on the Despicable China Trade Practices while President after President along with the eU, Japan, Austgralia, and all of the rest of the Free World have sat on their hands and allowed China to get away with Liteally Murder on everything from Intellectual Property Theft, Counterfeits from Drugs to Opioids, Steroids, Pharma Drugs, Airplane Parts, Food mislabels Human Trafficking, abuse of Minority Religions, Mney Laundering $ Billions of Dollars and purchasing Canadian, American and otyer World Nations Real estate and so much more .

    wait until you learn sometime in the next year that Chinese Nationals (pretend Canadians) have purchased Millions and Millions of American, Canadian, and Mesican Farm Land !!! That may get the attention of those that do not pay attention .

    If Trump, Canada, or Mexico contravenes the USMCA with a particular directive there is a procedure/apparatus in place to Grieve that Transgression .

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/01/26/donald-trumps-pledge-to-use-only-u-s-steel-is-loaded-with-caveats/?utm_term=.a1dd8ffcf73b

    WE (the Free World) have a Golden Opportunity to make China behave like a responsible world citizen and we must not miss the opportunity presented by DJT, we must stand together and support the U.S. and bring China to it’s Knees now . China needs to change NOW .

    People in Hong Kong are fighting right now for Freedoms we take for granted, we need to unite to take China on and we need to assist the HK Protesters and support the Trump Trade Initiative against china while we still able .

    The Time is Right !!

    Do you think the “Two Michaels” would be languishing in a Chinese Gulag if they were american with Trump in the White House ? NO they would NOT !

    If it was Obama or as it now is Trudeau ? Of course they are and would be . Should that not tell you something .

    I still believe DJT may still secure the safe release of the two Canadians .

    FAKE NEWS

    Someone claims that under Eisenhower U.S. Corporate Tax was 80 % .

    Absolutely Not true !!

    Under Eisenhower U.S. Corp Tax was 52%

    https://www.thebalance.com/corporate-income-tax-definition-history-effective-rate-3306024

    Again, YOU are entitled to Your Own Opinion But NOT Your Own Set of Facts !!

    Corporate Tax in Canada is just fine, we NEED and REQUIRE More Efficiencies from Government at ALL Three Levels !!

    If we then may require a sober look at Taxation change the Tax Regime could be reviewed .

    Norway

    Again for those that hold Norway up as the “Everything that is Perfect” please FINALLY Keep in Mind the following .

    Norway has Off Shore Oil Rigs, Offshore Gas Platforms, Pipelines, Oil Tankers Navigating their Fjord System and Coastlines, Export of LNG to the EU by Ship and Pipeline, Salmon Farms, and so very much more that YOU and other silly Special Interest Groups are against !!!

    Just how would Norway acquire everything that is Great if it was not for those mentioned ?

    PLEASE EXPLAIN !!

    Get It? Norway has and benefits from Industries the Social Justice warrior and PC Society of Canada think is Abhorrent !!!

    HELLO!!

    Please People, let’s at least pretend to

    “Keep It Real”

    FRamkly I am Aghast !!

    I believe if we do not follow the lead of Norway whom so many of you SJW Worship Canada may Go to Hell in a Hand Cart !!

    I eagerly await your response and mis representation of the Fish Farming, Oil and Gas and Shipping Industry in Norway .

    Just think of the Wealth Canada could have if we wer able to get Canadian Oil and Gas to World Markets at World Prices .

    Hey, we might even end up with even larger Surplus in B.C. !!

  34. Gene The Bean says:

    Harvey, at the risk of being brief and not needing 27 paragraphs to attempt to make a point, it isn’t about how much we pay in taxes, it is about how other people don’t have to pay taxes.

    Business and personal taxation levels (as pointed out already) have completely turned around. The only people that finance our governments are regular working people.

    Corporate welfare is at an all time high. You and I pay more in taxes than most millionaires. That is the problem.

  35. e.a.f. says:

    now, now 13. my point about the taxes is not only do countries similar to ours pay higher taxes, but the real point is what they do with those higher taxes: provide social programs many Canadians can only dream of and we could actually use. that is my point. My point also is taxes need to be more equitable.

    Regarding my points on child poverty, yes we all know there is greater child poverty in other parts of the world, we see the pictures on blogs and the news. its disgusting, but are you suggesting we ought not to complain about child poverty in Canada or try to do something about it because there is greater child poverty in other places in the world? That is what it sounds like to me. You lead me to conclude, we all should strive for the lowest common denominator.

    In a province as rich as ours, that children live in poverty is disgusting. You can argue adults are the authors of their own misfortune, but children, give me a break. They are these short little human beings, some don’t even know how to talk, but they all know one thing, when they don’t get enough food. when they got to school, these little kids start to notice the real differences and it has an impact on them and it not a good one.

    I see little value in paying Post Media $10M a year so the C.E.O.s can maintain their million $ salaries and bonuses while little kids lack health care, adequate clothing, adequate beds and bedding.

    Wonder when was the last time you saw a elementary school aged child who was happy with new bedding as a gift, because they could sleep warm? Have you seen kids that age get excited because they were receiving food that most of us take for granted? Have you see a whole family living in an RV because that was what their parents could afford, and yes Dad worked.

    When I look back on the Christy Clark reign I recall her stating on several occasions the province could not afford to let children keep the child support money their parents paid them if they were living with a parent on disability. (that disability was 50% below the poverty line) the amount Christy Clark said the Province needed so desperately amounted to $14M a year. She spent more than that on her salary for pammie, her travel, then there was photo boy, her breakfast room charge in Asia of over $700, the list goes on.

    We need to take care of the children of this country/province/our towns. You might want to consider it self interest. When they grow up they may not care about the seniors who did not care for them when they were children.

    Child care is something we need to have and it needs to be affordable, government licensed and inspected. Yes, its expensive, but lots of European countries have it. Even as far back as the 1980s child care was expensive. One woman I knew, after paying child care, she was working for $100 a week. Why? Because the family needed the $100 a week and at a future date, child care costs would end and she would still have the job, which she would need when she retired, so she’d have a pension.

    Canadians carry an enormous amount of personal debt. Most of it is because they’re trying to provide their kids with some sort of life and education and given the high cost of housing, that is about the only way to finance it. In Ontario a couple of years ago the largest growing group of people filing bankruptcy were retirees. yes, its a big shock, when you’ve raised your kids and not been able to save because you were trying to put a roof over their heads and were making min. wage or not much above it, you have no savings and your income falls to just around $1,200-$1,300 a month Some of you need to go out and have a look at the real world.

    Please don’t give me the line, they ought not to have kids. Without them there would be no one to pay for your care when you’re old.

    If you want to see the future, have a look at what has been happening in Ontario to seniors in care. Even here in B.C. you will find it you go into care, even at expensive private care homes, the first thing they want you do to is wear a diaper so they don’t have to use staff to take you to the bathroom if you need assistance. then they leave you in the dirty diaper until some one is around to change it. How do I know, well a younger sister advocated for senior she knew, who had had to go into care. One of her first questions to staff, was why was her elderly friend in diapers, she didn’t need them, never had. well it was easier for the staff. didn’t make her elderly friend feel all that good though…….what you do to children today, may be happening to you tomorrow if you don’t have a shit load of money to get yourself into a top drawer care home. $5K a month doesn’t cut it these days. that’s just average.

    So when you think poverty will never impact you, think again. you’re all going to be old. if you get old enough, you run out of money and yes I’ve seen that happen also, fortunately their children had the financial resources to cover it all. That pension you have which may even be 70% of what you made, in 20, 30 years simply won’t be enough for you to continue living as you have.
    Most here won’t be taking the Trudeau exit, you might want to start thinking about it……..life for seniors is not for the faint of heart.

    As that American Supreme Court Justice once said, I like taxes, its buys me a civilized society. For me that is what it is all about.

    Harvey I may have wandered off topic a tad, but I think my last line brings it back to taxes.

  36. BMCQ says:

    I do my very best to fact everything I post on this Blog .

    I never mislead intentionally and i never have lied, there is a difference .

    If someone points out that I am mistaken I verify the point and I immediately acknpwledge that fact and I apologize, that is the right thing to do .

    Once again I will point out and support a point by Posting a supporting Financial Post piece regarding just how much so-called Top Earners in Canada contribute to Income Tax .

    I am more or less happy to pay a lot of Tax, I would be much happier to pay that Large Amount of Tax if there were more Government Efficiencies, No Government Waste, and No Government Bloat, Cost of Government is beginning to affect the Standard of Living for many Canadians . Especially those Canadians that live in Larger Municipalities .

    https://business.financialpost.com/opinion/how-much-of-a-fair-share-do-canadas-top-earners-pay-you-might-be-surprised

    I would politely request that Bean and eaf address the National Post Piece I have attached .

    In fact there is much more Documentation I could attach regaring Higher Income Earners Tax Contributions but I believe this should be enough to address .

    (Edited…off topic. You made your point. h.o.)

    Ignoring verifiable information does not change the truth or the fact .

    (Edited ..off topic. h.o)

    This topic of the NDP and Liberal Budgets has been one of great interest and I have learned a lot .

    Having said that I have learned so much that I honestly must admit I cannot at this time form an opinion about Budget surplus for B.C. .

    How much if any Surplus should B.C. have? why? Heritage Fund ? Pay down Debt ?

    Thanks to Harvey, this is/was great, and I would also like to thank the 90 % of the Contributors that put forth honest, credible and thoughtful opinions on this . This has been an education for me .

    (Edited..h.o)

  37. 13 says:

    now now eaf, my point is simple. You use global comparisons when it suits your purpose. You do not use global comparisons when it doesnt support your Left wing , I want to pay more tax, sjw attitude. You cant see to come to grips with government spending that might not always pass the smell test. Look at the governments own auditors. Look at Plecas. Dont look at Mullen.
    You reference Northern Insights. Why not try the Fraser Institute or Can Tax Payers Fed.
    You are a rare individual that is always willing to pay more tax to make life better for (fill in the blank) Others want the gov to stop flushing taxes on bike lanes, dtes, feel good initiatives. As BMCQ has mentioned once or twice Round up offenders and send them back to face charges in other provinces. Sentence offenders to terms that qualify for federal prison and mandatory rehab.
    Use the savings to enhance the lives of seniors that have never committed a crime and are living on or below poverty levels.
    Your right when you say Horgan isnt any better than any other leader. I say hes much worse because the base he panders to are funded by tax payers that unlike you do not want to pay more.

  38. e.a.f. says:

    we barely have enough cops to do the usual work. rounding up others to send back to what province they came from is too expensive and how many jets do you think you’ll need?
    As it now stands Surrey has 50% fewer cops than Victoria. You want them to take on extra duties now also. sending criminals back to their provinces of origin is expensive. You need cops or sherrifs to fly them there and plane tickets are not cheap. Perhaps some one would donate a private jet and pay for the fuel, who knows.
    of course I’ll quote In-Sights.ca rather than the Fraser institute. Never saw the Fraser Insititute have working class people’s interests at heart. “They’re big on keeping the Koch’s and their ilk happy. Yes, the Koch’s donate to the fraser Institute. they don’t care whether the kids in this province starve, live or die, same goes for the Fraser Institute. Haven’t seen them advocate for much of anything for kids except private schools. Next time you read about them advocating for school meals, higher min. wage, and affordable day care and housing, give me a call.

    Mandatory rehab, even if it wasn’t a violation of our Constitution, won’t ever happen because it will cost a great deal of money. the country won’t even provide Indigenous children with the same level of health care none Indigenous people receive. the Liberals say they’re trying to catch up, but its still not even.

    To place some one in a decent more than a month care for substance abuse, costs over $20K. now how many families have that lying around. Do you really think the tax payers of this province are going to be O.K. with their taxes being raised to deal with substance abuse? Not so much, until of course their own family members die, but they won’t spend a nickel on others. Hell they get upset if the government provides housing for substance abusers. I’ve read letters to the editor in other parts of the province and boy are people upset that money is being spent on the homeless. They object to them getting free housing. the funniest letter I read was written by some one living in a very expensive condo complex……….

  39. Trevor says:

    I will never understand the “how dare you run a surplus” crowd. Ever. I would understand it if there was no debt to be paid. Because there is, and as I understand it, surpluses have to be used in B.C. to pay debt, (please correct me if i’m Wrong) why is this a bad thing?

    It’s this crowd which leads to fascists in Ontario getting elected, and making deficit numbers up to justify brutal, brutal cuts. This is the best provincial government in the country going, and we’ll likely lose it because a bunch of folks want lower taxes, and aren’t prepared to pay for all of the damage that comes with the people who would happily say they would enact it, and then not.

    (Response: Sorry to disappoint you: surpluses do NOT have to be used to pay down the debt. They have largely been used to build up a HUGE kitty to BUY VOTES in the following election: promises of new programs, tax cuts, increases on old programs. Of course, as soon as any government/party then gets elected … they do some of what they promised, but tax MORE than they need again and under-estimate future revenues again …so they can run another surplus ..and start the re-election funding cycle all over again. h.o)

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