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NDP/Greens Deserve Chance to Govern

June 19th, 2017 · 47 Comments

The Liberals say they are just following proper Parliamentary procedures … but there’s MUCH more to it than that.

The party knows it WILL be defeated on its Throne Speech after the Legislature returns Thursday … so why is it trying to delay the vote for another week or two beyond that?

They are no doubt hoping … and behind the scenes, directly and/or indirectly, pressuring Lt. Gov. Judith Guichon to  call another election.

For this to happen, Guichon need only conclude that the closeness of the party standings and the instability that could develop once a Speaker diminishes the NDP/Greens coalition ranks would prove too unmanageable, disruptive to the province … and thus, another vote should be held.

This would be political interference in the public democratic process … not something a politically appointed representative of Her Majesty the Queen should dare undertake.

The NDP/Greens coalition deserve a chance to govern. … until they are defeated or break up and decide to call an election themselves.

And that’s a stance … and a principle … that should be supported by all BC voters … even those who voted Liberal or Conservative etc.

I understand … and to some extent … share their concerns about what an NDP/Greens government would do; the impact on the economy; jobs; environmental rules; giveaways to supporters; and the impact on taxes; the debt/deficit.

Frankly, though, I think it would be good to have serious reviews of key areas, such as BC Hydro funding and pricing,  Site C dam (without the government’s mind made up in advance) , ICBC, Ferry and Transit  funding and operations, and, yes, what REALLY happened in the BC Rail scandal and selloff.

However, I don’t believe the NDP (not sure about the Greens) would be so foolish to bring in for short-term political reasons such job-killing and investment-destroying changes to ensure that whenever the next election takes place, they will be sent back into Opposition for another 15 years  … or even political oblivion.

And they would not be the first party to back off …or at least delay …some of the promises/stances/rhetoric they dished out during the election campaign … and even the years leading up to it.

But that’s not the point: the NDP/Greens  have agreed to work together; they have the numbers to defeat a Liberal government; and if they do, they should be given the chance to govern.

Period!

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get FREE First Alerts of all topics covered on this blog by following @harveyoberfeld.ca on Twitter.  No spam.)

Tags: British Columbia

47 responses so far ↓

  • 1 SG // Jun 19, 2017 at 8:27 am

    It’s looking like our Lt Governor, whose families ranch has contributed to the BC liberals in the past, is being heavily pressured by the liberals to call another election. If the Lt Governor did call for another election it would break the precedent setting tradition of the Westminster Parliamentary system of giving the leader of the opposition the opportunity to govern. Technically the leader of the opposition doesn’t even need to form a coalition with any other party, https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fskwawkbox.org%2F2017%2F06%2F12%2Fin-law-if-may-cant-pass-queensspeech-corbyn-automatically-becomes-pm%2F%3AI7sSeFXVRBkLMFiAh-6k4MrvpFA&cuid=2361153. If the Lt Governor calls for an election, BC will become nothing more than a banana republic where the leader (dictator) will use every thing within their power, to stay in power.

    (Response: I can see why the Liberals might like to gamble, hoping for lower turnout and/or a different result. And they have a lot more money than the NDP or Greens to go now. But in the face of a formal agreement by the NDP/Greens to work together, Guichon should let them try. h.o.)

  • 2 Gene The Bean // Jun 19, 2017 at 9:23 am

    You say “This would be political interference in the public democratic process … not something a politically appointed representative of Her Majesty the Queen should dare undertake.”

    Unfortunately the Queen that Guichon works for is named Christy. The power players that really run the show will force the Lt Gov’s hand and we will be having another election.

    It is as simple as “You cant make any money in opposition.”

  • 3 hawgwash // Jun 19, 2017 at 11:11 am

    When did the Liberals ever consider doing the right thing?

    I have mentioned before, they are in control of the game until they aren’t.

    Another election is not beyond thought and the results would be unpredictable.

    The Liberals have nothing to lose at this point. Another election would unearth utter contempt for them or put them back in a majority position by a complacent electorate, possibly in the middle of summer holidays.

    They lose more seats and are handed a decisive defeat, they have managed to stall long enough to shred more, award more and collect more.

    The collect more is disturbing, as shown here;
    http://thebreaker.news/news/mo-money/

    “BC Liberals raised $8.2M in 2017 so far. Party grossed $21.3M in less than 17 months.”

    That is more than enough to win the election fight, financially and buy an LG to boot.

    I repeat, at this stage they have nothing (more) to lose.

  • 4 D. M. Johnston // Jun 19, 2017 at 12:00 pm

    If the LG, Judith Guichon, calls an election instead of letting the NDP/Green alliance have a chance will forever destroy the roll of the Lieutenant Governor in BC.

    She donates to the BC Liberals and I can see that a court case could rule that she bought her post.

    I even can see some degree of civil unrest and maybe a riot or two. Certainly the Liberals would be treated like lepers at my house.

    Clark plays a dangerous game and if Guichon does Clark’s dirty work, there will be hell to pay, in fact I would say that it would signal that BC has no laws, except for the rich and powerful.

    I think it would lead the province into dangerous times, where law and order only resides for who is in power.

    This has now past pitchfork time folks, it could reach a deadly end and it is game Liberals seem to want to play.

  • 5 G. Barry Stewart // Jun 19, 2017 at 1:38 pm

    Absolutely, Harvey: they have the numbers and should be given the chance.

    There’s plenty of whining in the letters-to-the-editor in mainstream papers, that this is an undemocratic trick the NDP and Greens are attempting. Far from it — and I’m sure the detractors would have stayed mum if the Greens had chosen to associate themselves with Christy.

  • 6 Leanne // Jun 19, 2017 at 1:58 pm

    “the impact on the economy; jobs; environmental rules; giveaways to supporters; and the impact on taxes; the debt/deficit”. Oh my gosh, this sounds like you are describing what the Liberals has done over the past 16 years!! How fast people forget that the last NDP govt left with a surplus that Gordon Campbell promptly lied about. I am so tired of the NDP getting trashed before they have even had a chance to show what they can/will do.

    (Response: Nothing wrong with anyone being concerned about how well any party would govern ..esp in view of all the promises they have made to add services, raise remunerations ..while cutting several income sources. But as I said, I think they SHOULD at least be given a chance to show what they can do …whatever that is. h.o)

  • 7 E. Johnson // Jun 19, 2017 at 2:58 pm

    I don’t have any difficulty with the incumbent government going through due process. Present the throne speech and take a vote. If and when it is defeated then the NDP/Green will have the opportunity to show us what they can do. Any party that tries to trigger an election will not be rewarded for their actions by the voters. In my opinion, the coalition will not last through four years simply because of the strong personalities of the two leaders. They will face huge challenges keeping their individual parties happy as well in addition to getting along with each other. Nonetheless they must be given the chance to prove the doubters wrong.

    (Response: Exactly. Can’t imagine them lasting full term. And if Horgan and his team have any smarts, they would not let the Greens force them to adopt really radical policies that, in the long run, would spell disaster for the NDP much longer than their actual time in office. h.o)

  • 8 Island Lookout // Jun 19, 2017 at 3:01 pm

    GIVE HER HONOUR A BREAK HERE, PLEASE.

    I can’t believe that our LG, with all of her life’s experiences including managing a major ranching business probably worth millions, could possibly be manipulated by Christy Clark or any other pol.

    No way.

    And if her business, as I believe it was and not her personally, was a campaign donor to the BC Liberals, then so what?

    Does a business or individual being a principal of such an enterprise have fewer rights than some Social Justice Warrior who throws a few bucks at the Greens?

    Don’t think so.

    SO, does the NDP/Green arrangement “deserve” a chance to govern?

    Nope, again.

    Why?

    Because their public comments, for instance on the speaker issue, and body language, as seen on TV since May 9, suggest to me that they are babes in the political woods, mangling opinion with political reality.

    Christy Clark remains remarkably and strategically silent watching those two nimrods going at it in the hopes the public takes in the sideshow unobstructed by her. All three parties must also be polling like crazy, as well.

    I believe B C will get an election call soon.

    Who’s to blame for this possible impass?

    Voters of course.

    They made this apple pie bed and it feels crappy.

    Can’t get a good night’s sleep at all.

    More’s the pity as BC’s economy sits at the side of the road…waiting…

    (Response: I’m not aware of anything in the Elections Act or the Constitution that disqualifies anyone from governing because “they are babes in the political woods, mangling opinion with political reality”. Sounds more like something you might see in Venezuela! And we’re not there … hopefully never will be. Coalitions are a time-honoured Parliamentary tradition….and if the government falls, they should be a chance to take over…and try. h.o)

  • 9 david hadaway // Jun 19, 2017 at 3:04 pm

    In the event (I hope unlikely) that the LG disgraces her office by immediately allowing another election, the NDP and Greens should present single candidates throughout the province. With any luck that would deliver a punishment for Clark’s opportunistic game playing that would exceed Theresa May’s recent experience in the UK.

  • 10 !? // Jun 19, 2017 at 4:25 pm

    Lt. Gov. Judith Guichon skrewed up Royally when she didn’t ask the NDP/Greens to form government when they presented her with the signed deal.

    That CC & the BC Liberals are still in power is a Royal farce.

  • 11 13 // Jun 19, 2017 at 5:24 pm

    “The BC Liberals deserved a time out and thats why the Greens……” Thats all of the exact quote I could remember before wanting to throw my radio (or had he been available Mr Weaver) out the window.
    What an arrogant sob. In case Mr Weaver of the 3 seat party hasnt figured it out the Liberals won The NDP were a very close second. His party was a distant third. So Mr Weaver a great many voters might find your pontificating a bit hard to swallow.
    Yes the NDP will get their chance to govern. How many tied votes will the speaker need to vote on before the system cracks.
    When the alliance fails and we hold the inevitable election I predict that Mr Weaver will have pissed of his supporters and the greens go back to zero seats.
    The throne speech that Mr Weaver will have to vote against flies in the face of his (and his 2 mlas) constant sniveling that the BC Liberals should work with us to create a utopia that we all can thrive and survive in. What a load of BS. Site C and Kinder Morgan will likely go ahead and Mr Weaver will need to rationalize his backing the party of yes.

    (Response: The NDP will have to be very careful that the Greens …. like the tail wagging the dog … don’t force them into positions and policies most voters will think too radical and/or costly, because that would play right into Liberal hands (and election ads) in the next campaign. h.o)

  • 12 e.a.f. // Jun 19, 2017 at 5:53 pm

    it gives the B.C. lieberals more time to shred, triple delete, try to convince the Lt. gov and my money says they will; raise money for another election. It also gives Christy time to lock in more contracts for her friends.

    Why the NDP/Greens deserve a chance? because some of us could die in the hospitals we go to, just like the man with the broken neck 3 weeks ago at the Abbotsford hospital. Broken neck, take some pain killers go home and dead couple of days later. Another hospital with more dedicated/younger staff, broken neck, scans all round, into a bed up on a floor.

    Having just had a family member in hospital for 17 days I don’t know how some staff do it and we ought to be scared shitless for what passes as medical care in hospitals these days. Not all the money in the bank is going to do you any good if you’re dead and remember any of us could go from health to next to dead and in a hospital.

    If people think the B.C. Lieberals are such good money/business mangers just go have a look at Norm Farrell’s blog to find out the truth.

    When you consider what the insiders are getting in return for their “donations” to the B.C. Lieberals I don’t really know what to describe it as, you pay us and we give you contracts, i.e. laundry contract in Kelowna or the biggest corporate shake down in history. You donate to us or else. it would be fun to know the truth.

    This province is broke. Our health care system is broke. Some may be making money, but its not doing us much good because you simply can’t afford to live on what you are paid.

  • 13 hawgwash // Jun 19, 2017 at 6:02 pm

    D M Johnston;

    I never miss a post of yours, read them top to bottom and very, very rarely am I at odds with anything you say.

    Until now…

    I agree with some of the small stuff like;
    LG donations as actionable; but a court case? Not likely.
    Clarke playing a dangerous game; but only for what it will do to the future of this province if successful. Civil unrest? Not likely.

    Though I would be ok with pitchforks, riots and revolts, it just isn’t going to happen. Not even close.

    Almost half the May 9 voters said they are ok with Clark.

    Of the other bunch, a chunk of them simply moved their votes on the day and could, with little persuasion, return to the liberal flock.

    An overwhelming number of the voting (and non-voting) population does not know who the LG is or what the role is.

    An equal number have no clue or (demonstrated) interest in any of the many, many serious issues you, I and most of the others here talk about.

    The well informed are a serious minority, in spite of the tireless efforts of Oberfeld, Farrell, Yuile, Mackin, et al.

    No, sorry Sir, another election would generate a massive yawn as people go to the lake, PNE, gramma’s farm or just the back yard BBQ.

    Turnout would be dismal.

    However, as I said earlier, I’m would not predict an outcome, in spite of the Liberals having a huge war chest and knowing how to play the game, like no others.

    I would wager on an election, a lousy turn out, a manipulative Liberal campaign but not a penny on any serious push back at a Liberal majority.

    In the lead up to May 9th they were cocky, over confident and complacent. Not this time should the LG hand them a Mulligan.

    The good news is I empathise with your feelings and would gladly keep you company on your porch to watch the new Coleman bridge being built over the Fraser.

  • 14 Eldon // Jun 19, 2017 at 6:24 pm

    I wonder about the tactics of such a play by the Liberals. The GreenDP coalition will not last long, they will hang themselves somehow in less than 2 years. Why not let this play out? If the Liberals try to force an election now, they might come out looking anti-democratic and power-mad. There’s an excellent chance if the coalition is allowed to govern they will end up looking like incompetent boobs and the Liberals can sweep to another 8 year majority.

    (Response: A break could be good for them … and us. As I wrote in previous blog, I believe Christy would go and a fresh leader and new ideas would be good … esp if the NDP/Greens muck it up. h.o.)

  • 15 Harry lawson // Jun 19, 2017 at 6:56 pm

    Harvey,

    Welcome back.

    I think and would hope the LG would be seeking and receiving council in this matter.

    Do I believe that the liberals would like a election sooner than later maybe I am sure Ms Clarks supporters would like a quick one and her detractors within the Liberals would like a chance for a leadership review then a elelection with a new leader.

    I believe that we will be at the polls during the fall flu season.

    (Response: If the Liberal strategists really think about it, I believe they would realize Clark’s “best before” date has passed. Time for a change ….and a rethink of policies too. h.o)

  • 16 13 // Jun 19, 2017 at 7:00 pm

    @eaf: some of your rants cant go unchallenged.My mother my stepdad a very close friend, my sister in law , my cousins wife are examples of people that I know that have relied on the BC Medical system. If you asked any member of their families they would have praise for the system and the people that work in it.
    Your last sentence is a real hoot. If Ive read your willingness to pay more taxes once Ive read it a dozen times and here it seems that you feel were all broke and cant afford anything?

  • 17 D. M. Johnston // Jun 19, 2017 at 8:27 pm

    @ Hawgwash.

    There is a dangerous hubris in this province and it started when the government started watering down the education system and stopped teaching civic.

    Common though is that the student unrest in the late 60′s to late 70′s scared many politicians. I was involved in two student insurrections in BC, in grade 7 (of all things) a revolt against the CBC, which taught a music course and the infamous gym walkout at the old South Delta Junior Secondary in 69.

    Small change stuff by today’s standards but it was big back then, defying authority.

    We had a riot caused by an adverse hockey score some years back and riots ensued. All one needs is a lot of discontent, boredom and hate.

    My eldest is 21, gone to BCIT and has a job, sadly it is a nowhere job; his friends have all gone to post secondary education, but are working at minimal wage jobs, again with no future.

    At 18, I was pulling off the “Jubilee” green chain, at Eburne sawmills and after a year of hard work, I was able to travel to Europe for a year! No such luck these days, unless daddy is rich or one worked in the oil patch, which today is almost no more.

    They feel cheated, cheated by the system, which means cheated by the government and I can tell you that hate is growing at a high rate.

    Add this to their perception that government is totally corrupt and there is nothing one can do because democracy is just a word used about every 4 years, but democracy has been long absent.

    This is the Dystopian Generation, brought up on video games that are so ultra violent (instant replays of head shots) that it has numbed their souls.

    A major riot is not out of the question, rather it may just be what will happen, not for any care about democracy, but by a general hate for the establishment and it is (our time) to get our way.

    Many over 40, live in an ennui; a rose coloured fairy tale enhanced by being born at the right time and the right place.

    That is being challenged as I write this as today’s generation sees nothing but a wasteland so who gives a damn if “we” riot!

  • 18 r // Jun 19, 2017 at 9:25 pm

    Did ,current,LG of BC donate to BC Libs?

    frpc search

  • 19 e.a.f. // Jun 20, 2017 at 1:28 am

    In B.C.’s recent history riots have occurred around sporting events.
    Non sporting event riots, they had a bunch of white racist guys riot in Chinatown back in the day/there was a riot in Gas town which one could say was caused by the mayor of the time and his police dept. anxious to try out their equipment and horses.

    For people to riot about their living conditions/social conditions they have to care and given the low voter turn out, not enough care about politics or how the province is run.

    13, at item 16. Many in this province are broke, they live pay day to pay day; they spend at least 50% of their income on housing; if the interest rates go up 2% huge numbers of people will loose their homes. Yes, personally I’d be willing to pay more in taxes if I thought society would benefit with social programs. In this province we had the money, its just Christy and the cabal wasted it and put the province deeply in debt.

    Very old baby boomers and the generation prior to them, lots are doing very well. We entered the job market in the early 1970, purchased homes, and have PENSIONS which keep up with inflation. However, the Generation Xers are not so fortunate.

    The province is broke. its approx. $160 billion in debt. The health care system is a disaster. Its short a thousand speciality nurses and we are so short of doctors many people have to use walk in clinics which don’t take patient if you’re not there by very early afternoon. Hospitals are not being kept clean, only the bathrooms in the lobbies. Perhaps you don’t remember some of the news items regarding the problems in hospitals, the patients in corridors, etc. If this province had money why is health care such a mess. Why did people have to spend years fund raising for a new Children’s Hospital to come up with 50% of the cost. thank heavens for Jimmy Pattison and his generosity when it comes to hospitals.

    The biggest drain on this province is the mess at B.C. Hydro and lets not forget the approx. $160M we pay to who ever bought the contract from the MacQuire group to pay for the sea to sky highway, every year for 25 years. The debts being run up by the Port Mann and Golden Ears bridges will eventually require the tax payers to bail them out. Oh, and don’t forget all that money which isn’t in the B.C. Hydro Pension fund. Its going to require a write down.

    There is an illusion of wealth in the province, but have a look at the debt load people are carrying. This is not the status of a well to do province, we just look like it. Remember one in five children live below the poverty line in this province. I’d conclude that makes us broke.

    Its time for Christy and her b.c. lieberals to go. The NDP isn’t going to waste any more money than she and el gordo have. Yes, the man who “sold” B.C. Rail to C.N. and C.N. is now suing because taxpayers are using a walk way which they’ve always used.

  • 20 hawgwash // Jun 20, 2017 at 7:09 am

    e.a.f. #19;
    Some good hard reality there.

    “For people to riot about their living conditions/social conditions they have to care and given the low voter turn out, not enough care about politics or how the province is run.”

    That was my point to the good Mr. Johnston, which leads to;

    “There is an illusion of wealth in the province, but have a look at the debt load people are carrying.”

    There was a recent article on the new equity rich homeowners and how that equity is being used like credit cards; remortgaging to buy stuff.

    I am watching a couple of, close to me, 40 year old families trying to keep up with the Lee’s.

    The auto brokers and banks are happy.

  • 21 Island Lookout // Jun 20, 2017 at 8:11 am

    #17 D.M . JOHNSTON

    NO RIOTS ANYTIME SOON

    I, too, lived in the Lower Mainland during the 60s and saw the “riots” in Gastown, SFU, UBC (those latter two were “occupations”), football disturbances, the various sit-ins and the whole nine yards.

    These so-called events presaged the arrival of the first entitlement generation, the Boomers.

    It’s been downhill ever since as far as I’m concerned.

    I remember some of those Boomers making fun of their parents and grandparents , those who suffered through two world wars, the Great Depression, and their post-war struggles to help out self-same Boomers. Sinful.

    So, today, the Boomers, still having not yet strip-mined Mother Earth in their endless quest for youth and “just another trip”, are now royally screwing their kids and grandkids by voting Left and consigning them to a debt-induced pergatory or worse. They continue to demand more and more government services which they expect will be “free” and if not then they’ll bitch and whine as they’ve aways done.

    And then there’s low interest rates which have caused all of our economic problems since the financial debacle of 2008. This is the real devil in the works.

    Designed to bail out failed banking systems world-wide, low central bank interest rates also induced those wretched Boomers to borrow “for free” (interest rates at 2% or so in many cases) allowing them to double-down on that endless quest for self-actualization.

    Don’t blame this on Christy or the LG or anybody else but the central banks and yourself for being dumb enough to borrow so much money for, essentially, nothing. You WILL have to repay it.

    Young people getting “educated” by lazy teachers so they can get some dead-end lattee-making stupid job shows a lack of self-respect and low self-esteem.

    Try a trade or something real.

    As for future demos, I don’t think they’ll materialize.

    And for what outcome?

    Remember that governments do NOT control interest rates, known as Monegtary Policy, and the havoc they cause. Central banks do.

    Governments control Fiscal Policy, budgeting and capital expenditures.

    Christy Clark doesn’t have as much power as you may think. Neither does the federal government.

    Local municipal governments are the eunichs at the party.

  • 22 skidder // Jun 20, 2017 at 8:26 am

    If the libs were really understanding the visceral dislike the public seems to have for Clark, a leadership vote would be held soon after their defeat. Having said that, I must give her credit for letting the same public,see the unvarnished display of arrogance and whining by the 2 guys we’re now stuck with for.

    (Response: Even if a party leader resigns, or if a leadership review is pushed for, that triggers a process that takes months to organize a vote or convention. And with results so close, I can’t blame her for hanging on through absentee ballots, recounts …. and even a Hail Mary Throne Speech. Then her government will get defeated …and the universe will unfold … MAYBE as it should. h.o.)

  • 23 hawgwash // Jun 20, 2017 at 9:48 am

    Lookout;
    “So, today, the Boomers, still having not yet strip-mined Mother Earth in their endless quest for youth and “just another trip”, are now royally screwing their kids and grandkids by voting Left and consigning them to a debt-induced pergatory or worse.”

    Sorry, I have a boomer brain, maybe even pre-boomer, so please remind me, when was the the last “Left” government in BC and how bad was the debt?

    While you’re at it can you tell me where I put the fridge?

  • 24 Crankypants // Jun 20, 2017 at 10:35 am

    I believe that the Lieutenant Governor should let the results of the recent election run its course. If the Liberals loose their grip on power then the Green/NDP group should be given a chance to govern. If that fails then it’s back to the polls.

  • 25 Gene The Bean // Jun 20, 2017 at 11:20 am

    #21 Island Lookout –
    Classic conservative that thinks our future is just repeating the past. Laughable.

    Shots at baby boomers, teachers and progressive thinkers (the Left) all the while still defending Christy as some kind of saviour …..

    Stockholm syndrome….?

    The BC Liberals are so far past their best before date it isn’t even funny anymore.

    Maniacal politicians like Christy and Trump will make those “lazy, sinful, bitching, whining (your words) boomers and millennials get off their phones and vote.

    The rabid right wing of conservatism will go the way of the dinosaur and it’ll be those 18-30 year old voters that do it….. no matter how many times you snap your suspenders and yell at people to get off your lawn……

  • 26 e.a.f. // Jun 20, 2017 at 1:49 pm

    Hi Island Lookout. If you go to Norm Farrell’s blog, In Sight.ca you will see how many billions Christy Clark and the B.C. lieberals “gave” to the LNG industry, much to the determent of the rest of us. Now Norm uses the government’s own figures. You will also be able to see how much Christy has run this province into debt and how.

    No NDP government ever did that. Don’t recall any NDP government pulling billions out of the B.C. Hydro pension plan either. those details can be found at RossK’s, Gazetteer.

    Christy may not control a lot of things, those of an international level. However, what goes on in this province she did and does. It caused billions in waste. who can forget el gorod’s purchase of the German ferries and then borrowing an extra $750M, charging it to the B.C. Ferries corp, putting it in general revenue, and telling the voters we had a balanced budget. Oh, and that interest on those almost $3B. is 10% because el gordo wouldn’t turn B.C. Ferries back into a Crown Corp. If he had of, we could have seen the books.

    No the B.C. Lieberals have spent this province into a huge hole. give the NDP/Greens at chance because if nothing else it might save the water supply in that little village outside of Gold River from being given to a corporation.

    As to those who complain about the baby boomers, who I expect might be Gen. Xers. You seemed to be good with it while you were on your parent’s gravy train.

    Some may complain about the baby boomers wanting things for free. Its not free. Check out how much many of us paid in taxes and more taxes. Now we expect a return on the money paid in advance. Unfortunately the B.C. Lieberals gave it to their friends who paid to play.

    Low wages have been a hall mark of the B.C. Lieberals time in office. wages have not kept up with the cost of living or the cost of housing and they did little to nothing to provide affordable housing.

    Canada is currently No. 5 when it comes to wealthy citizens. that is people worth more than $30M, which does not include homes they live in. The increase has been substaintall . So has the number sinking below the poverty line.

    if the Greens/NDP can find a way to provide more affordable housing for working people, let them have at it because el gordo and Christy haven’t done much in that area for the past 16 years. For those who think Horgan and Green Weaver won’t last, who knows. More than one marriage has lasted not because they loved each other but because they needed each other enough to work it out.

  • 27 hawgwash // Jun 20, 2017 at 2:15 pm

    I.L.
    You only need look at the first item but feel free to scroll further…and I’m no Greenie.

    https://twitter.com/AJWVictoriaBC

  • 28 Jamie E // Jun 20, 2017 at 4:13 pm

    A lot pf opinion being presented as fact here. Fact: as the re-elected Premier leading the largest party in Legislature, the LG asked Premier Clark to attempt to form a government. She is well within her rights to present a Throne Speech and let her government live or die on it. Clearly she is taking this tact because she believes the “agreement” between the NDP and Greens is fragile and that she may be able to break it apart. If she is wrong, she loses. If she is right, she carries on for the time being as Premier. Personally, I think it is very likely that the longer the cantankerous Weaver and volatile Horgan have to stay in bed together, the greater the likelihood of a sudden divorce.

    Those advising that Clark should resign are giving the NDP and Greens a free pass for the six to 12 months it will take to hold a BC Liberal leadership race and election. The Green/NDP government could very well fall partway through that process – or the NDP could call a snap election – leaving the BC Liberals leaderless in a provincial election campaign. Sorry, bad, bad advice.

    Greens and New Democrats are pissy because the math of their agreement doesn’t really work and both are beginning to realize they need some level of co-operation not just with each other, but with the largest party in the Legislature as well. Makes their backroom agreement and attempts to shove Premier Clark aside look a little premature.

    (Response: Snap elections are part of the political game …even if they don’t always work out the way the government that calls them expects. Ask Theresa May. Too bad for the Liberals if they are caught leaderless in the scenario you present. You are correct though in that Clark has the right to try to govern … until defeated. That will happen June 29. h.o)

  • 29 Island Lookout // Jun 20, 2017 at 5:02 pm

    @#23,25,26,27

    WHY DON’T Y’ALL READ #28?

    Your NDP/Greenie lineages are showing a bit too much here.

    Chill out all of you who are so confident that an NDP/Green alliance WILL come to fruition and save us all from right-wing Hell, and create an IDEAL socialist utopia never seen before.

    My main concern here is how the world’s business community will approach an NDP/Green government, whose main actors do not inspire confidence given their past “relationship” of antagonism. They still have various conflicts.

    Which means, I’m more concerned about the future than the past which is done.

    I want the next BC government to stick to its knitting and provide reasonably priced services in a timely fashion.

    If Weaver/Horgan can pull this off, then good for them, and a lot of people will be very happy, me included.

    BTW. As for BC Hydro’s financial condition, I also have big problems with that outfit.

    This corporation at times seems to be a law unto itself.

    It’s not fair but I’ve seen one BC government after another having problems reining in Hydro’s various, and sometimes hugely expensive, proposals and questioning its activities.

    Other Canadian public sector hydro outfits are similarly powerful and have made few friends in the process in the past. Power trippers.

    One more point: I support Site-C regardless of what Mr. Weaver grinds on about. I don’t care what he thinks.

    It is in the public interest to see such a project come on line. This province’s
    land mass is simply huge and there is plenty of room for it. Plenty of room for the folks, too, who number about 5 million in a province which is bigger than any one of the following US states: California, Texas, and Alaska.

  • 30 JasonS // Jun 20, 2017 at 5:48 pm

    “I understand … and to some extent … share their concerns about what an NDP/Greens government would do; the impact on the economy; jobs; environmental rules; giveaways to supporters; and the impact on taxes; the debt/deficit.”
    Yes that is what everyone should be terrified of. Except i’m speaking of the Neo-Liberal party of BC and ALL of the points above in your quote are exactly what they have been doing for the last 16 years. One thing i don’t understand is why Horgan and Weaver were not screaming about the massive amounts of public debt this cabal has saddled your grandchildren with. A true conservative would never support this “Liberal” government there is nothing conservative about it.

    (Response: Maybe Horgan and Weaver were “not screaming about the massive amounts of public debt this cabal has saddled your grandchildren with” …because they privately feel THEIR plans will add to it??? In fact, although I have called for the NDP/Greens to have a chance to govern, what will be MOST interesting are the comparable statistics (not the rhetoric) after, say, two years: economic growth; unemployment rate; deficit and debt; child poverty; health care waiting lists; health costs; and MY taxes! Good or bad…will be GREAT for discussions. h.o)

  • 31 Jimbo // Jun 20, 2017 at 7:50 pm

    This is sooo simple. Clark is now assuming the left agenda. Go with it. It will not last – you cannot polish a turd (Christy). Stay with reasonable daycare and raise in minimum wage.

  • 32 e.a.f. // Jun 20, 2017 at 9:27 pm

    perhaps Ms. Clark’s desire to remain in office can be explained by reading RossK at The Gazetteer and then Norm Farrell’s In-Sight.ca.

    Seems there is a 2 month time limit left to lay charges against the company which owns Mount Polley mines. Remember the dam which gave way. Two more months and nothing happens, they are in the clear and its not like the owners of the mine haven’t been good friends of Christy’s. who knows what motivates her. Certainly can’t trust her smiling face, so we can come to our own conclusions, given the B.C. Lieberal history of providing for their friends, starting of course with the “sale” of B.C. Rail.

  • 33 hawgwash // Jun 20, 2017 at 10:41 pm

    All this talk about Clark setting a trap by using Greens and NDP prior motions on big bucks and SS increases and forcing those guys to vote against it, is just that; talk.

    If she forces a confidence vote on it, it’s hers not theirs and they can defeat her on it.

    If she pulls that silly ploy, they toss her and if given the chance to govern can bring in their own bills on it.

  • 34 RIsaak // Jun 21, 2017 at 7:54 am

    @ e.a.f. re. #32

    Hammer meet nail.

    Also Massey & site C continue.

    Good to see Laura Miller flee the sinking ship, hopefully before her digital eraser met it’s goals.

  • 35 OldIslander // Jun 21, 2017 at 9:09 am

    The question every Liberal MLA and party member is quietly asking themselves these days; “Would we have won if we’d had a new leader?” And the answer that whispers from the depths of their consciousness is; ‘Yes!”

    So I doubt that most Libs want a snap election. The NDP/Green ‘dog and pony show’ should provide enough time to bring out the long knives, force Christy to resign – then have a quick leadership contest. Then they can find a way to force a new election in a year or so.

    In the meantime, watch for all manner of political shenanigans. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a floor crosser or two. The temptation of power – perhaps even a cabinet post (or some other ‘under the table payoffs and/or favours) – might be irresistible to a few.

    So that’s my prediction. No election now. Christy forced out. Lib leadership contest. New election in about a year. And then a new Lib majority government.

    (Response: I agree with you …esp the process/timing. One thing to consider …is the NDP … knowing that time could work against them, could actually manipulate its own defeat …trying to make the Libs look bad for defeating them and forcing an election, but secretly delighting in going to the voters BEFORE the Libs get fully re-organized, with a new leader, new strategy (aimed more at urban areas) and new policies to attract the middle class. h.o.)

  • 36 rainclouds // Jun 21, 2017 at 9:24 am

    Lots of low hanging fruit for the Red/Green party to keep them semi relevant for a year or so. Then the bickering starts and no way should the NDP acquiesce to the Greens if it isn’t in their interest. Weaver strikes me a rather pompous and imperial. Meanwhile the Con/Libs turf Christy.

    I am curious to see what skeletons in the closet come out after 16 years of governance. My feeling is the corruption in the Clark govt may be much worse than previously envisioned. (I dont have much faith in her ethics ). Am thinking that is a significant reason why the gamesmanship over who leads is ongoing.

    (Response: I have no doubt the NDP … like any government that replaces a foe … will try its best expose any secret deals, nepotism, alleged corruption or just plain waste, nastiness and incompetence of the Liberals. Especially knowing that another election could be just one vote away! Should be lots of fun for political junkies … except those who support the Libs, regardless. h.o.)

  • 37 hawgwash // Jun 21, 2017 at 11:21 am

    OldIslander and HO at 35.
    Nothing wrong with that line of thinking although, I believe the NDP are exploitable at any time.

    With all the money the Liberals have under the mattress, an “anybody but Christy” leader could quiet fairly carry the day. So, no need for a huge restructure; just good advertising.

    Floor crossings could change things dramatically though and for a lengthy period of time.

    But first we have to see a new governing party and that hasn’t happened yet. May not either.

  • 38 hawgwash // Jun 21, 2017 at 1:40 pm

    Clark pledges no new election…
    Why am I so cynical about that line?

    If she has cut a deal with the LG, the LG call a new election and Clark says; “not my idea.”

    Are her lips moving?

  • 39 e.a.f. // Jun 21, 2017 at 7:34 pm

    of course a leadership convention for the B.C. Lieberals could be so much fun. Could even split the party. Hey one can dream. Alberta’s conservative movement was able to provide a get away for a past his best before date leader, but who could B.C. come up with? Which P.C./Conservative wants to come home to B.C.

    Don’t expect a federal Liberal to take over. B.C.’s right is just too right for the federal Liberals. On the other hand it might be an opportunity for the old P.C. party to get its act together here in B.C.. Provide some right of centre policies with no corruption in the back room. How wonderful would that not be.

    Christy isn’t going to go quietly. In my opinion she has demonstrated that already. there are things which need to be “finished” first. Unless she is handed a very nice “job” elsewhere what is she going to do to support her life style?

    What would be fun to see is Gordon Wilson take a run at the leadership, hey there is nothing on t.v. and Harvey would be writing at least 3 times a week then. It would be almost as much fun as watching mayor moombeam run for the leadership of the B.C. Lieberals. he and Christy both seem to have a great fondness for developers………

    (Response: The more I watch her these days and observe all the announcements/promises …. I’m beginning to think she may try to hold on to the party leadership at least through the Fall, hoping for an NDP/Greens slip and early election. But if that does not happen, the party would be smart to dump her and take on a fresh look/leader before the Spring. h.o)

  • 40 13 // Jun 21, 2017 at 9:56 pm

    This is fun. Speculation run wild. Predictions run amok. My turn. Christy will need to lose another election to get the punt. The next election will be sooner than later and the Liberals will prevail but the majority will still be slim. The greens will become a bad memory.
    I wonder if what the odds of the LG passing on the Horgan Weaver debacle and going straight to the polls again. 70 to 30

  • 41 hawgwash // Jun 22, 2017 at 7:14 am

    Question of the Day;

    Does “parliamentary procedure” require that a confidence motion can only be brought via a regular vote like acceptance of the budget?

    Can’t the GNDP, who has the majority side of the house, just put up a motion for a vote as soon as they all sit down?

    They could pass the motion and win the vote in minutes instead of wasting more time and money.

    Just get on with it!

  • 42 hawgwash // Jun 22, 2017 at 7:53 am

    Talk about a Star Frit slice and dice.

    This has got to be the best political commentary in a long time.

    Jon makes the comment about why people are disgusted with politicians and he nails it.

    omny.fm/shows/the-jon-mccomb-show/has-anyone-seen-the-bc-liberals …

  • 43 BMCQ // Jun 22, 2017 at 9:48 am

    As long as the Green/NDP Coupling is done within the British Parliamantary System Rules they should form Government.

    Let’s be honest here, the B.C. Libs and Christy Clark were literally able to “Grasp Defeat from the Jaws of Victory”!!

    Just thinking out loud hee but I wonder how many of you Holier than Thou Types here will blame the Green/NDP “Light Show” if the Fentanyl Crisis is not solved over night or if Heaven Forbid a Child passes away while in Government Care?

    Looking back at pre-election threads on this Blog I had to laugh how some regular contributors counted the NDP and Horgan out and dangling on the ropes.

    In fact even the most Bitter and Angry Contributor on this Blog criticized and belittled Horgan to the point that I was left very puzzled.
    Does nothing make you happy?

    Clark singlehandedly won the 2014 Election and she almost Lost the 2017 Election all on her own.

    When circumstances are right Clark should be made to “Fall oh her Sword” and a new B.C. Liberal Leadership should take place.

    Having said that we must also keep in mind that with such a close count the Libs would then be one member short between the time Clark resigned and there was a Election for the new Leader. The maneuvering on that could prove to be problematic and interesting in itself.

    If the Green and NDP “Braintrust” cannot hold a deal together an Election could come sooner than later and Clark could once again be Premier so she would obviously survive that way.

    I am in the minority on this but I actually believe that the “Two Headed Monster” of Horgan/Weaver may last longer than some think.

    I honestly do not understand how anyone on this Blog would suggest that the LG would not only conspire to keep the Libs in Government but actually be complicit in the maneuvering and manipulation of calling for a new Election.

    A question for all of you honourable Citizens of B.C. that are NDP Supporters.

    How do any of you feel about Anarchist David Eby being your Attorney General and Top Cop of B.C.?

    Eby called off his “Observers” who were to Film the Amarchist Riot so Police could be recorded abusing protesters because his Anarchist friends asked him to do so because those same Anarchists felt the Police would weize the Video to use as evidence against the Anarchists in a Court of Law.

    And Eby Complied!!

    https://genuinewitty.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/david-eby-politician-or-civil-libertarian-and-why-he-needs-to-resign/

    http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/hurting-the-cause/

    And pleae do not attempt to deny what Eby did because he actually apoligized LIVE ON AIR on CKNDP (NW) when I asked him about it during my call in when he was a guest.

    It turns my Stomach!

    O the issue of “The Speaker of the House”.

    Firstly, I have not respect for Linda Reid, she had her Snout Far Too Deep Into the Public Trough for Far Too Long.

    With the very close count in the Legislature and i fact the popular Vote we could end up with more Minority Governments which would again and again bring up the problem of appointing and keeping a Speaker.

    Do we want to continue with this? Especially if Mensa Members Horgan and Weaver come through with Legislation for PR. That could almost always guarantee Minority Government for many future generations.

    Is it finally time to consider appointing an Independent Speaker for a period of say 10 years who would be appointed by the Legislature.

    Could we consider a Judge perhaps?

    I believe we could see many Minority Governments and whoever ends up as Government should consider this problem and it should be acted upon.

    Perhaps we could attach a Referendum on that on the next Provincial Municipal Election Ballots, that way the people of B.C. could have a direct say in the decision making.

    I know Traditionalists would be agains this idea but think of how much trouble we could avoid if we were in a situation of having many Minority Governments over the next Generation or so.

  • 44 BMCQ // Jun 22, 2017 at 9:50 am

    Horgan and Weaver are much like

    “Two Scorpions Circling Each Other in a Bottle”!!

    It will prove to be very interesting.

  • 45 Keith // Jun 22, 2017 at 11:46 am

    Good one Harvey, agreed the Greens & NDP should get a get the chance to govern, it may not suit the cristy fans but that’s the way the parliamentary system cookie crumbles.

    We can speculate about what may or may not happen, but if they hang in there long enough it will be a political junkies nirvana for as long as it lasts. Also it’s worth keeping an eye on the machinations of the senate as Justin Trudeau is having problems with them not blindly rubber stamping governments bills in the traditional manner now they have some form of independence that he championed.

    With agreements to cooperate on one hand but not taking anything for granted on the other, I believe these two scenarios gives an example of the results of an alternative to first past the post would look like.

    (Response: Will be really interesting to see what the LG does. I’d bet she WILL give the NDP/Greens a chance to govern…. knowing full well their “solidarity” will crumble within a year. Can’t imagine Horgan and Weaver’s egos letting it go on much beyond that. h.o)

  • 46 212Degrees // Jun 22, 2017 at 4:43 pm

    How in the world can a leader of the Liberal party be an NDPer and survive. She can’t. Her days are numbered. Not by an election but by palace revolt. Get rid of her and the Liberals win the next election in a cake walk. Simple.

  • 47 e.a.f. // Jun 23, 2017 at 11:28 am

    have to disagree with 212Degrees. The first order of government is to stay in power. All else is secondary. Unless there are some B.C. liebs who suddenly form some sort of moral code don’t expect any of them to abandon the good ship of pay to play.

    If the B.C. Lieb MLAs were capable of reading they would have known how badly the province was in debt, and I do believe some of them can read, those MLAs would have revolted some time ago.

    the liebs may not come back in any type of walk. Those of the conservative bent may decide to get their act together and go their own way. A true P.C. party with some political ethics might do well.

    Welcome back BMCQ.