Park Board Fiasco Shows GREENS Not Ready to Govern

The canary in the Stanley Park Board offices has died: killed off by the disastrous mishandling of power by the GREENS, the party holding the largest number of seats on the Vancouver Park Board.

It should sound a very LOUD alarm to all British Columbians … the Greens are NOT ready for power … not here at least.

Thankfully, their incompetence and ruinous ideological fanaticism has been exposed at the Park Board level … and not at full City Council or provincial government degrees of government.

Just take a look at the damage/debris the GREENS have inflicted on thousands of Vancouver residents … and visitors alike.

In April, the Board closed ALL the Board-administered parking lots at waterside parks and beaches, blaming the Covid crisis: I contended it was just a chance to fire another salvo in the Greens hate-on for cars. And to hell with the people who drive them … even the handicapped and the elderly.

And what better proof of that than the Park Board’s TOTAL closure as well of access to the roads around Stanley Park … ALL the roads, ALL lanes, ALL access in April … ostensibly also because of the Covid pandemic.

BUT even when BC … and Vancouver … emerged from Phase One Covid restrictions many days ago, and shops, restaurants, barber shops, many services, provincial parks all re-opened … SEVERAL of the Vancouver Park Board most popular West End beach parking lots and ALL the Stanley Park roadways remained CLOSED to vehicles!

Even today, as BC advances well into Phase Two of the Covid recovery and moves towards Phase Three, some beach parking lots and ALL Stanley Park roadways remain closed .

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: this is fascist-style governance at the GREEN/COPE dominated Park Board, catering to only the anti-car crowd.

And it’s the GREENS who are to blame.

There are seven Commissioners on the Board: three GREEN; two NPA; two COPE.

The GREENS, in exercising their new elected Park Board powers, COULD have pursued their environmentally-strong, lifestyle-changing beliefs and ideology at a moderate pace, impressing the public with policies effecting change, while also respecting others’ views/needs/rights.

How?

By reaching out, negotiating and compromising with the two NPA Board members: fairly politically moderate, center right.

I have no doubt in my mind that, if the GREENS had done that, we could have ended up with a separated car lane in Stanley Park right from the start: accommodating cyclists, joggers, skateboarders, walkers AND, yes, also those who need vehicles to get around.

Moderate policy … encouraging progress but respecting others as well.

But NO!

The three GREENS aligned themselves instead with two board members from, in my view, the most extreme radical left party on the civic scene, COPE. (Who I wouldn’t be surprised might even want to ban ALL cars permanently from the park … except maybe the Lada!)

That unholy alliance, GREENS/COPE, I believe, is how we ended up with concrete and steel barriers in front of so many parking lots for so long and why the roads … ALL roads … around Stanley Park still remain CLOSED to this date (June 9).

Militancy … in lieu of moderation.

That’s how there was approval Monday night, of a GREEN/COPE motion for “staff to explore the long-term feasibility of reducing vehicle traffic in Stanley Park.”

There will be a consultative process … which I believe will be a total farce: the GREEN/COPE don’t want to know WHETHER cars should be restricted, just HOW.

Interesting that a group of handicapped, wheelchaired, and elderly cane-carrying protestors who showed up at the Park Board office for Monday’s meeting were not even allowed to address the Board before the vote.

Business operators inside the Park have already said say they won’t survive with vehicle restrictions. Read this from the Daily Hive: https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/stanley-park-businesses-car-traffic

And the voters have started to wake up.

After word finally got out about the outrageous Stanley Park road closure motion, more than 6,000 people signed an on-line petition, calling for access for ALL. In just three days!

But why should people even have to petition for access for all!!!! Never needed before the GREENS/COPE alliance began to abuse people’s rights.

Imagine the power … and the voting potential of the thousands of other GREENS/COPE-abused public … if all their victims get out and vote in the next civic election!

The big LOSERS long-term will the GREENS.

They have shown all British Columbians that once they get power, unlike mainstream parties that have learned to moderate and accommodate, GREENS will IMPOSE their ideology with an iron fist, arbitrarily impose changes they want, with no compromise, no accommodation, no moderation … even if people in wheelchairs, or using walkers or canes who suffer … and only AFTER that, will they then lower themselves to “consult”.

The real VICTORS in all this are COPE: two members from a party that has no realistic hope of ever taking power at City Hall or BC wide, have been allowed to exercise exceptional power at the Park Board, taking advantage of the Green’s naivety in aligning with them .

Meanwhile, let us mourn and thank the dead canary, for alerting us to what life would really be like under the GREENS.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get free First Alerts to all new postings on this BC based Blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam, just First Alerts to new topics up for discussion.)

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28 Responses to Park Board Fiasco Shows GREENS Not Ready to Govern

  1. D. M. Johnston says:

    The first thing I have learned about the civic Green party is that they are not Green at all, rather elitist, higher purpose persons, masquerading as politicians. They are people who could not find a birth in another political party and the Green party welcomed them, for want of any other credible candidates.

    The $3 billion Broadway subway fiasco (subways are very poor for the environment and for transit) showed the Civic Greens for what they were, photo-op mavens who will do what their backers tell them to do.

    Give them power and watch them Goose-step over any form of sane discussion.

    I did vote Green for the past few elections, but no more, as the Green Party has become the unGreens, nothing but Greenwash, from political has beens who have sat there far too long for what good they have done.

    (Response: Part of the problem … have to admit I’m as guilty as many others … is that many people have voted Green on the basis of some sort of idealistic wish for cleaner air, rivers, lakes and more recycling etc., backed up by some evocative election campaign slogans or quotes from their leaders. Very few actually read their platform and analyze what it would do in real terms to the economy and their cost of living and just their ability to get around and enjoy themselves. The Greens/COPE alliance at the Park Board … and their shoot-first-and-ask-questions-later actions in recent months gives ALL British Columbians a good taste of that. Run away! Run away! h.o)

  2. Jason says:

    The Green Party, and the broader ‘Green’ political philosophy has always been a bit of a mystery to most mainstream Canadians (including me). I suppose most average voters believe it has something to do with ecology and a desire to preserve the environment (perfectly reasonable goals).

    I’m no expert but from the small amount of reading I’ve done, the Green Political movement began in the old West Germany back in the late 1970s, out of a desire to preserve the Black Forest from environmental destruction. However, the Green movement morphed into a project of the hard left (e.g. one of the leaders of the May 1968 riots in France ‘Red’ Daniel Cohn-Bendit is now a prominent Green politician in the European parliament), and they began to demand things like completely deindustrializing West Germany and pulling the country out of NATO. Given the Soviet threat at the time, its no surprise that the Greens never held high office in any Western European state (and if any of those policies had been implemented in West Germany, Brezhnev or Andropov would have marched straight over the Elbe without a shot being fired).

    Fast forward to the 21st century, I don’t think much has changed. The Green’s are essentially a hard left political project. Have a look at the twitter feed of the ‘Green’ chairman of the Park Board. The duly elected Commissioner seems to think that the Park Board has a responsibility to engage in efforts to ‘decolonize’ the park system (whatever that means). Funny, I thought the Park Board had a responsibility to maintain parks and recreation centres to the ratepayers and residents of the city. And who exactly are the colonizers of the city?

    I’m absolutely amazed that reasonable middle class people are willing to tick the box for such a gang of hard left wingers (and I consider myself a mild social democrat but if this Green/COPE alliance of nonsense carries on, I think I shall be ticking the NPA box in the next civic election).

    (Response: Very interesting read. About the only point I disagree with is where you say “I don’t think much has changed.” I realize you are saying that in context of the 21st century, but I believe the Greens have changed substantially, even more recently. I have actually on occasion voted Green at both the federal and provincial levels: not expecting them to form government or even opposition but because I felt theirs was an important voice/message to be heard; and readers may recall how I argued on here that the Green leader should have been included in the televised national election debates. BUT they have become more extreme left/radical … ie not for the better. The federal party, I sense, is simmering with radical left revolutionary types, bordering on anti-Semites; the provincial and civic Greens have become too far left for me; and, I truly believe the Park Board Greens have shown how they don’t know how to manage (or retain?) power by expanding their appeal/accommodation of mainstream voters. What an economic and living standards disaster most in society would endure if they controlled City Council or the provincial government! h.o)

  3. 13 says:

    I have never voted Green and Im not likely ever going to vote for a Green . Maybe Im selfish but I feel that green policies are fine for some sort of utopia that doesnt exist.
    The same people that support Green policies likely want enhanced social programs. Better day care better health care better education and free post secondary education.
    They want many things but dont often offer a way to pay . The green party might prop up minority governments and in doing so trample on their own policies and principles. As Harvey has pointed out they have shown their true colours in Stanley Park. . Its easy to act like an elite higher purpose. Judging by what goes on in Vancouver it goes hand in hand with much higher taxation and leaving seniors and disabled wondering how they will get by in the new green utopia.

    (Response: The Park Board Greens’ handling of their recent challenge may sum up perfectly their philosophy/ideology: it’s great if you a are young, fit, highly mobile and well-employed and rich enough live in/close to a well above average affluent community. But if you’re poor or middle class or disabled or elderly and mobility challenge … you’re out of here …literally! Nothing says that more than the total extremist blockade of vehicles on Stanley Park roads by the Green/COPE alliance for months now. And looks to me like they’re still holding on like fascist fanatics who know angry liberating forces are advancing, but they will stall as long as they can=, trying to squeeze in one or two more weeks for their base to enjoy exclusive use of the park before they have to open it up to people who need cars to get around. Those roads should be opened TODAY … so all the businesses/concessions can be too! Any work that crews are doing to separate the lanes could surely be done with normal work safety procedures. Makes me wonder if the Green/COPE ran City Hall whether they would shut down all of Hastings or Granville Streets while working on one section! LOL!! h.o)

  4. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    Your comments about the greens apply to the federal and provincial as well.

    Vancouver citizens are pissed , many were busy working trying to exist with the higher cost of living in Vancouver ,civic policies were on the back burner.

    as we slowly come out of the various phases of this pandemic , many are seeking the parks and civic services for the first time in along time. the user fees , road closures, how dirty the city and parks have become . hard to take a family to the park if it is parking or food . quite a rude awakening. many voted green .

    We are about 16 months away from the municipal elections it will be interesting to see the voter turnout and results.

    (Response: Voters in Vancouver MUST wake up! Remember, it was also the Green/COPE dominated PARK BOARD that let the Oppenheimer Park fiasco fester and literally rot before taxpayers’ and nearby residents’ eyes. I also don’t think they’ve been adequately supportive of the Vancouver Aquarium either. And now look at how their mishandling of Stanley Park has unnecessarily divided, hurt and angered so many … Vancouver residents and visitors alike. And I have no doubt the road dividers they are busy planning/installing will uglify the park … instead of beautifying it. All for no legitimate reason: bicyclists and motorists, who almost all drive fairly slowly, have shared the roads in the park for 50 years without any major problems/collision/injury problems that I’ve ever heard of … any stats?? Why the huge problem/changes/spending now? I believe it’s just extreme left car-haters pushing their agenda …and willing to create great havoc to do so. This is what you get with a 39% voters turnout … when so many stay home and let “activists” exert a much greater influence on the outcome than I truly believe would otherwise occur… or at least I hope that’s the case. h.o)

  5. e.a.f. says:

    liked Elizabeth May, but the rest of the Greens not so much. gotten to have some time for Weaver, but the rest, not so much. The problem for me has been, they may say they’re Green, but never really saw anything about them that “told” me they were Green. I don’t even think of them as left. If I couldn’t vote NDP, I’d vote federal Liberal before I’d vote Green.

    The Green’s position on the environment and how it relates to Stanley Park tells me they don’t care about human beings and worst of all small human beings, you know children. Not having had any, I still do consider them a marvel of nature. We on this blog have talked/written about the impact of Green policy on seniors, the handicapped, etc. but we didn’t talk about the impact of the policies on the tiny human beings. Sit and watch them as they go into an ocean for the first time or see a rabbit or squirrel. Their discovery of sand and how it runs through their hands. Their first time on a swing at Second Beach. These are the things which make humans at an early age aware of nature. Now the Green/Cope gang want to deny these tiny “animals” human beings that experience. For many a trip to Stanley Park maybe the closest they get to “nature” for the first part of their lives.–not every one can afford to go camping, or have gulf island homes.

    My other concern regarding Greens is their lack of policy regarding the economy. Yes, BMCQ the economy and your ability and those of others to run your companies with some success. With out living wage jobs, life for these tiny human beings would not be great. It costs money to run our medical system, Armed Forces, RCMP, E.I., etc. It all has to be paid for . How can a government implement taxes if no one can pay them. Don’t care much for the Green national position on some foreign affair issues.

    In my opinion the Greens need to pick their “fights’ and take into consideration the other part of the environment, the human beings. Some of their policies don’t have much to say about those tiny animals called babies, toddlers, etc. if these Greens want to go Green and do away with industrialization, they need only to look at the middle ages or even up to the American Civil War. The world was “green”. Children died young, women dying in child birth was “normal”, men didn’t live much beyond their mid 40s unless they were rich. That isn’t my type of Green.

    My type of Green is getting people into Parks so they can appreciate nature, enjoy it, have fun with it. Parks are a place where kids can run wild. work out their energy. Green for me is cutting back on pollution, keeping our water clean, keeping the population growth under control, etc.

    The Greens don’t seem to realize if kids don’t get into Stanley Park and enjoy the ocean, sand, grass, trees, and wild life, they won’t value it as adults. My first exposure to “nature” was Stanley park as a little kid, like before elementary school, when they were building the sea wall. As the parental units financial status increased, it was 3 weeks of camping and then the glorious house on the beach in the Gulf islands. For me and my siblings our first step into nature was Stanely Park.

    the Greens in my opinion do not understand balance. their concept of “green” reminds me of Pol Pot and his ideology and we know how that turned out. They wanted to tear down society and rebuild it as they saw it. I’m not all that into it. Several million died in that experiement. As much as the Greens hate oil, it will always be necessary for plastics which are used in a variety of medication, etc. We can do better producing it and reduce our reliance on it, but Greens need to understand using soya in your vehicle, just gets it eaten by rats and mice. The alternative is putting rat poison under the hood. Not Green at all.

    So Harvey thank you for this post. Its time these people who call themselves Green move along and COPE needs to get back to its roots and that isnt’ with the Greens.

    (Response: I’m sure the militant GREENS who hate cars are overjoyed with the total ban they achieved on cars from Stanley Park for two months (and still counting). But what they don’t realize is that they have alienated many thousands of voters who thought the Greens were moderates … but have now seen them so coldly inflict suffering on even disabled and elderly people with mobility problems. I doubt the Greens should count on their votes at any level of government in the future. h.o)

  6. BMCQ says:

    Well stated Harvey, most people with just a little common sense can not help but agree with you whether they live in Vancouver, YVR, Prince George, Red Deer, of Moncton, what you have been pointing out all along is very simple basic Common Sense .

    Whether it be in Vancouver, Canada as a whole but especially Federally, the EU, much of the USA like California, Washington, Oregon, a few more, or even the soon to be free United Kingdom it appears that all of a sudden it is the “Tail Wagging the Dog” .

    Much of the reason for that is other than many public sector workers who have much to gain from the politicians that pander to them regular working people who are wealthy or middle class do not get involved and informed of what is going on within their communities, province, or country .

    As history has always told us the Left always “Get the “Vote Out”, no matter what the left who have about say 40% get 90% of that number to the polls even if they end up going like El Cid and they are long dead but strapped up in the saddle long enough to mark the X before they collapse and fall over . Then of course some borrow a friends voting card, imagine that .

    On the other hand those that lean more free enterprise are ridiculously too busy to vote, are too lazy to appear at the polling station or they like far too many in this part of the world really live in Hong Kong or Beijing so that free enterprise vote ends up being about 25% of the eligible voters . So ultimately the free enterprise types have no one to blame but themselves .

    In Vancouver the Greens/COPE/Vision have never been ready to govern because they do not know how, the evidence of that can be seen going back as far as Larry Campbell and then continuing on with Mayor Mumbles Robertson onto the even more ridiculous even more inept and even more impotent Kennedy Stewart . WTF How do we elect these totally not ready for prime time players .

    Greens, COPE, the Visionites, and too many NDP Politicians are too intent on playing Identity Politics, moronic Symbolism, politics or revenge, and politics that target anyone that is not part of their ilk, they basically hate anyone and everyone that does not believe in total government control of everything the great unwashed might believe in . Some here that might already be “Seeking a Safe space” after reading some of what I have just said might agree with me but they do not want to “Push Back” against their own leftist polticians as it would not be “WOKE” .

    Today it is the War on the car, tomorrow Golf courses, soon it will be larger homes, more expensive homes or condos, different private social clubs, the race track, and then more, and do not worry, there will be lots more, they are just getting started .

    Just one quick Stanley Park story before I go, I spent many many days and hours in Stanley Park from when I was a toddler and right up to today whenever I have the opportunity . I have many people come to Vancouver over the average year and I always put them up at the Sylvia Hotel and each and every one of them absolutely love the Sylvia, the lounge, and the dining room, and they love Stanley Park when I either drive or walk them through one of the most beautiful places on earth , Every single one of those people get to see a Park Bench right next to one of the two Lawn Bowling Greens at the SP Lawn Bowling Club which has a very nice plaque which dedicates the bench and spot to my parents .

    You are owed a “Tip of the Cap” from many thousands of people for your hard work on this Harvey, personally I am very happy to give you “Two Tips of the Cap” !

    (Response: It actually saddens me that we have reverted to a point in our society where advocating “access for all” and denouncing the blockading/excluding of anyone from parks and beaches raises such opposition! And how ironic … I’d bet many of those supporting the banning/exclusion of cars, and those who need them to get around, including handicapped and frail elderly, actually see themselves as champions of civil rights and foes of discrimination. Clearly they do not practice what they preach. Shame! h.o)

  7. 13 says:

    Harvey thank you for the fight to make the parks board do the right thing. I hope someday to take a celebration drive around the park. Every time I make a lane change Ill think of the effort you have made so I can make that lane change.
    BMCQ, the Sylvia is close enough to the lawn bowling facility that I have a plan. Ill need a cooler day as I will leave our dog in the car while my wife and I enjoy lunch at the Sylvia. ( the hotel has free parking for restaurant patrons). After a great meal we will get the pooch and take a walk to the lawn bowling club. As I will be tired when I get there we will seek the comfort of one of the benches dedicated to your parents.

    (Response: Why is the road STILL not open!!! I believe they’re stalling … like the last fanatical holdouts in a war they started and now are losing. I really hope the public ARE mad as hell and will not forget the suffering GREENS/COPE have unnecessarily wrought on so many citizens. h.o)

  8. BMCQ says:

    13

    That is very kind of you and very much appreciated .

    The bench in question is at the SW end of the closest green to the Sylvia Hotel .

    BTW – I stay at the Sylvia quite often when I have dinner downtown, it is very convenient to everything, especially if one has a glass or two of wine with dinner, I travel a lot and the Sylvia Bar is one of the nicest I visit anywhere and the staff are the best !

    If all goes well my wife and I will sometime in the future end up living right next door to the Sylvia at the Eugenia, only steps to the Sylvia, 300 yards to the Lawn Bowling club, and not too far to Cardero’s and the Tea House .

    I wonder how we will get to the Tea House, Second Beach, Siwash Rock, Prospect Point, or Lumbermans Arch if the Gutter Snipes at Vancouver City Hall and Parks Board have by then dug up the Stanley Park Roadways and replaced them with Cycling Paths, Homeless Tent Camps, Social Housing, and a never ending Cesspool of Protesting gathering spots for any and all Activists and Anarchists that wish to tear down everything our society represents .

    Wow, perhaps by then the Eugenia will be full of Green, Cope, Visionite, Council, and Parks Board officials along Jenny Kwan and Mensa Member Mayor Kennedy Stewart .

    They will all every single one of them love my wife and I as neighbours !

    . Horror of Horrors .

  9. DonGar says:

    Petition: Keep Stanley Park open for all! (David Fine)
    https://www.change.org/p/vancouver-park-board-keep-stanley-park-open-for-all

    Also from Fine: Great video

    @DavidFineGuy I filmed some disabled protesters who want #stanleypark open now and are also concerned about what long term changes will mean to them. Their pleas were passionate and emotional and I share them here. #vanpoli
    @ParkBoard #stanleyparkforall

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_AGZNyC9HU&feature=youtu.be

    =
    Today, almost 7300 signatures on the petition. About 1K per day. These are voices that Vancouver
    @ParkBoard chose to ignore prior to deciding to implement a pilot project to “reduce motor vehicle traffic” & #accessibility in #StanleyPark

    https://twitter.com/mtnbvan/status/1271105248942346242?s=20

    The 75 page Stanley Park Cycling plan (final 2013) is comprehensive has numerous cycling improvements. Road closures NOT in the plan.
    Only 2 notes on road closures: 1) A suggestion of short sections, 1 lane closure with shared use recommended. 2)Temp closures for special events

    https://twitter.com/mtnbvan/stahttps://twitter.com/mtnbvan/status/1270427814097977345?s=20tus/1270427814097977345?s=20

    (Response: Now that is REALLY interesting! “The 75 page Stanley Park Cycling plan (final 2013) is comprehensive has numerous cycling improvements. Road closures NOT in the plan.
    Only 2 notes on road closures: 1) A suggestion of short sections, 1 lane closure with shared use recommended. 2)Temp closures for special events” Proof again the idea/justification of closing even one lane around almost the ENTIRE park is a FARCE … taking advantage and exploiting the Covid pandemic to push the GREENS/COPE own radical POLITICAL agenda … not even contemplated in the EXPERT PLANNERS’ recommendations. h.o)

  10. BMCQ says:

    Don

    Thanks for all that !

  11. DBW says:

    Seeing that you have allowed a couple of people to reminisce, could I be allowed to ask BMCQ a question.

    Was the bench dedicated to your parents near the lawn bowling club put there because they were members. If so and if they were active during the ’60s my dad and your parents would have known each other. Dad was an excellent lawn bowler, winning the city championship a couple of times and the BC championship once. He was a member of another club but he played at Stanley Park often. Mum and I would go to cheer him on but as a 12/13 year old, I would usually wander off to the putting green or other sections of the park.

    My grandfather also played bowls and because Dad lived on Beach Avenue between 1918 and 1922, my grandfather might have been a member at Stanley Park when it opened in 1919. I googled the club and there is an online history with some pictures from opening day, but I wouldn’t be able to pick him out. On the other hand, there were pictures from 2003 and sure enough there was one couple who were really good friends of my parents.

    Sorry for going off topic.

    As for the Greens. Harvey, you could hardly expect them to work with the NPA. Before the civic election, the Greens, COPE, Vision and One City(?) agreed to kind of work together by limiting the number of people who would run under each banner. For Parks Board, the Greens ran 3, COPE 2 and the NPA 6. It was something similar with council and school board. By not splitting the vote, Greens and COPE (not Vision) managed to win more than the might have with full slates.

    (Response: I am aware of the election agreement the left of center parties had made. However, once a party takes power, it’s primary goal, especially in a minority government the situation, is to win a majority the next time around. And sometimes that does mean moderating and co-operating with parties/individuals on “the other side” … ie using a more bipartisan approach … rather than linking up with a more extreme radical version of your own beliefs. Doing it the way the GREENS did get the road totally closed for two or three months, instead of divided, but I believe that will hurt the GREENS with more voters in the long run. h.o)

  12. BMCQ says:

    DBW – if Harvey allows

    I hope you are sitting down, I can almost guarantee my Father and perhaps my mother knew your Father (and mom) and horror or horrors I also more than likely knew your Dad .

    My Father was a member there from about 1970 through 1995, I was also a member there on and off several times over the years and had the privilege of knowing some of the most incredible members/people that one could imagine ever knowing . Knowing them was an amazing experience but learning so much from them and appreciating their extraordinary sense of honour and strength character is something I will never forget . There is not a day in my life that I do not look back and thank God that I had the wonderful opportunity to spend time with so many wonderful human beings . It was quite an education .

    Jimmy Jarvis, Graham Jarvis, Tommy Jarvis, John Henderson, John Sinker, Sam Caffyn, John Bell, Malcolm Nelson, Jimmy Slight, Jim Buttar, Jim Denholm, Chuck Christie, John Buchanan the former Chancellor of UBC, Andy Rae, are just a few of the members I knew well at SPLBC .

    My Father and I were also members at Terminal City LBC and Vancouver South LBC .
    I would juggle football practice , Lawn Bowls, and the Fraser Arms and the Ritz Hotel 6 nights a week and on top of that Saturday then Sunday for games and tournaments .

    …………………

    A major worry to me whether the radical government might be what we currently see in Vancouver proper being very activist left or for that matter hard right there is a great risk that damage done may be very difficult and costly to change back or reverse the actions/changes even if that change back is warranted .

    Imagine if after that the financial cost of Covid and perhaps another future virus how difficult it would be to finance that reversal . Could the Tax Payer afford that reversal ?

    Let’s also keep in mind what a huge mistake it was for Mayor Art Phillips to take automobile traffic from Granville St between Nelson and Hastings St., it killed Granville St. and basically turned what was once the cities most vibrant street and neighbourood into a sh*t hole of broken humanity laying in doorways, shady business’s, drug crimes, assaults, and any number of illegal despicable behaviour .

    Yes, let’s prohibit automobiles from Stanley Park, what harm could two or three thousand illegal drug addled repeat prolific offenders and worse living in tents in the Jewel of Vancouver cause ? The lack of car traffic and thousands of old and young people hiking trails and rolling in their wheelchairs down paths that arrive to the park by vehicles might just prevent the illicit activities that will take place without vehicular traffic . With cars and people frequenting they park exploring everywhere they can there will always be a deterrent for those that are the most undesirables that would live in the shadows .

    Do not take my word for it, Take 2 hours walk the trails and see what I am talking about, without vehicles navigating the roads and without the public that travel into the park in those vehicles the park will quickly turn into Granville or HASTINGS streets with trees, and trees provide wonderful cover for the “Bad Guys” . People on Bikes ride through the park, they do not frequent the forest .

    Without vehicular traffic the city will be turning Stanley Park over to the worst society has to offer, within a year there will actually be “No Go” Zones in the Park .

  13. Richard Skelly says:

    Long gone from the Lower Mainland, I can only speculate that access roads to the Park are blocked by barricades. Seems to me it wouldn’t take much organizing for several hundred taxpayer motorists—with a smattering of disabled among them—could gather, rip down the barricades and drive in.

    One way or another, this situation is ripe for FOX News, OAN or Sinclair Broadcasting to send a crew up. And present evidence of the kind of socialist-green looniness that threatens to spread to the U.S.

    (Response: I would not sanction illegal actions in this type of case: better those who are affected and those who REALLY care about fairness and inclusiveness put their votes where their beliefs are the next time they get a chance to show up and vote. Because history has shown the activists and anti-car crowd do ..and the current Park Board (and City Council) makeup and policies are the result. h.o.)

  14. DBW says:

    Bear with us Harvey. BMCQ, Jim (and Sheila) Buttar were the good friends of my parents I mentioned. I was surprised to see the 2003 photo because the last time they visited with Mum and Dad, they were moving to New York. They obviously came back but by then I was long gone. Dad was a member of the Grandview Club which was disbanded in the late 60s and he joined either Terminal City or South Van. When he moved to the West End in the late 70s, he may have joined Stanley Park but by then he would have been less competitive so I don’t recall him talking too much about it when I came home for visits.

    (And if we ever have this BBQ with the Keeping It Real gang that you so crave, I will only sit at your table if the conversation is limited to lawn bowling.)

  15. DBW says:

    Sorry Harvey, back on topic. I would like to shift just for a bit. I have mentioned numerous times that I don’t view my local politicians the same way as most of you Vancouverites seem to view your civic politicians. And I thought it was a small town vs big city thing, but after your comment about the Greens and working with other parties and minorities and majorities etc. I got to wondering. How many cities have political parties. I tried digging around. I really don’t know if Toronto or Calgary are led by political parties but I don’t think they are.

    Here are a couple of interesting articles that I came across.

    https://www.timescolonist.com/islander/island-voices-partisan-civic-political-parties-bad-for-taxpayers-1.23898650

    https://calgaryherald.com/news/local-news/third-parties-pacs-could-dominate-next-municipal-election

    Looking I my city council and school board, I might have an idea of who leans left or right but I never consider any of them of being loyal to anything other than the city. I don’t see them as members of a political party so my bias for or against a political party doesn’t influence who I vote for. That wouldn’t be the case in Vancouver.

    And once a person gets elected under the banner of a political party aren’t they kind of under pressure to vote a certain way if they hope to be endorsed next time.

    According to the Times Colonist article only Vancouver, Surrey and now Victoria are the only cities with political parties in BC maybe in all of Canada. Now I am wondering if that might be the problem.

    (Response: Montreal has civic parties: others I think have alliance type groupings at the time of the election … but maybe not held together by annual conventions, etc. I don’t have any great objection to parties …although I’m not in favour of the ward system: my only ideal is that whoever forms government try to respect the needs, interests, rights of all citizens …not just cater to, promote one or two groups, at the expense and exclusion of the others in terms of socio-economic, political or even neighborhood preferences. h.o)

  16. BMCQ says:

    DBW

    That conversation brought back many fond memories .

    I believe Jim and Sheila are still there and live around Comox and Guildford, I will drop by there sometime after Covid .

    Hey, I can run over there from the Sylvia .

    Your Father would have known Sandy Houston and Murdo Thompson who were both members at Grandview LBC .

    As to the seating plan at the picnic ? Harvey will put me at the same table as DBW, eaf, Gene the Bean, Max, Aghast, Helena, and Hawgwash.

    It would be much like sharing a jail cell with Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein .

    That was nice .

    My apologies Harvey, thanks for the patience.

  17. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, its e.a.f. This will be the second time this year we agree. “lets prohibit automobiles………..”

    Your reference to Art Philips and the experiment on Granville St., yes, saw it; was there from the start, well before that. It was an idea based on an area in Rotterdam. they’d built Oakridge, which was a small version of the same area in Rotterdam, but what people never did understand was Vancouver was never going to be Rotterdam. About all they had in common was they were both port cities.

    If people didn’t like Oppenheimer Park, wait until they take cars out of Stanley Park. Over the decades I have seen developers take an area/mall, no longer working for them, do a small fix up, a few million, then not have that work and then go to City Hall, and say, see it didn’t work now can we turn it into “………”. Its a trick I’ve seen again and again.

    Some developers have time on their side. they can wait the 10, 20, 30 years to get to where they want. Unless there are highly organized community groups, ………………. It did cross my mind with Oppenheimer Park. What does some one want to build there (and I’m not right or left on that one) Over the decades I’ve heard the joking about how wonderful it would be to have a development in Stanley Park. When I sit back and look at it, first I’d ban the cars, or set fees people couldn’t afford, then I’d let the problems develop, then spend a hundred million in todays $s to “fix” it, then have it go to ratshit, an and then slide in the solution I wanted. there are things in life which hold no surprise for me. Some cities in GreaterVancovuer were once small, every one pretty much knew everyone. As a child you learnt how business was done. Sometimes nothing is a surprise and nothing is new.

    So yes, I agree, with you on the “future” of Stanley Park, if cars are banned. Prospect Point, nice high rise, tall thin, Tea House, ditto, with Tea House downstairs–great place for lunch. Most politicians aren’t that smart and I learnt you can make them do what you want, without every having to spend money on them. You flatter them, make them think its their idea, that they’re smart, that it was their idea, etc. That is why god created lobbyist and not all lobbyists look like lobbyists. Once upon a time they weren’t named that, just guys who “saw the future”.

    (Response: They will not ban ALL cars etc. permanently from Stanley Park: they would face huge blowback …even lawsuits … from the restaurants, concessionaires and touring companies and even tourist orientated businesses in the rest of the city. I would describe what we have witnessed …and continue to witness now since the roads are still closed … are the antics of environmental extremists …like old fascists throughout history who enjoyed brief discriminating and bullying reigns over innocent victims unable to fight back. Liberation is coming! Even if the GREEN/COPE hangers on build a WALL of sorts to try to hang on a bit of territory …until they are thrown out of office. h.o)

  18. 13 says:

    Well well well. It is indeed a small world. For the fantasy BBQ I expect that steaks would suffice with a mandatory veggy entre for others. Ill need to watch a lawn bowling match to participate in the conversation If my memory serves me across the road from lawn bowling is a covered picnic / BBQ area. Of course unless we can drive thru the park this fantasy will remain just that.

  19. nvg says:

    DBW There is an example of Vancouver Council ‘voting a certain way. This article (2014) on Councillors voting records, by “City Hall Watch”
    https://cityhallwatch.wordpress.com/2014/01/29/voting_record_transparency/

    City Hall Watch also includes, up to December 31 2019, a spreadsheet (cell) database using symbols for ‘Absent, Abstain, Declared Conflict, In Favour, In Opposition’ on how each City Councillor voted https://vancouver.ca/your-government/council-voting-dashboard.aspx The data provide the means for the public, journalists too, to determine IF the political party brass were telling the Councillors how to vote.

  20. e.a.f. says:

    13, we can still all attend, just rent some motorized wheel chairs. they haven’t banned those. electric bikes will work also, if you have a sense of balance left, but that would preclude drinking–drinking and biking can be dangerous–you fall.
    \
    BMCQ, if Harvey put “your seating list” into action we would spend much more time talking about Vancouver and how it grew, who we knew, etc. and the old days, we would not get around to politics. Oh, and bring Ms. BMCQ. I like her. More than one of us “raced our vehicles” through Stanley Park in “the dark of night”. Now for the “old timers”, if Harvey permits, what was the public street used for drag racing starting at 2:00 a.m. in the 1960s and where was the start line? I told you I was old.

    Yes, that was just a thought, where would young hot shots practise racing if they banned vehicles from Stanley Park? How many marriage proposals were made in cars in Stanley Park? How many babies were conceived in the back seats of cars in Stanley Park? We’ll stop there now.

  21. nonconfidencevote says:

    The Greens
    I first watched Elizabeth May lose her attempt at a federal election seat in Nova Scotia several elections ago.
    She immediately scurried to the west coast of Canada to run in a by election in BC.
    The first elected federal “Green” in Canadian history.
    She gets her Wikipedia honorarium
    Then we watched her self destruct in an alleged alcohol induced rant at a Ottawa presser.
    Fast forward to the last BC provincial election where the ‘Greens” hold the balance of power with the NDP….. a deal with the devil as it were.
    Both Green leaders have resigned after their dalliance in politics…..God only knows why.

    The Van Parks Board Greens should remember one thing….it takes “green” (money) to run a city, a province and a country…..not slogans and anti industrial, furry faced 20 year old protesters who havent paid their share of taxes ….yet.

    (Response: I have no animosity towards Elizabeth May: I see her as a fairly moderate Green …supportive of progressive change and environmental improvements, but resistant to the extreme and anti-Semitism that simmers at the party’s federal level (which severely hurts their appeal to many voters). The Park Board GREENS are in my view extremists who don’t respect/care for many citizens (notice that Stanley Park roads are STILL closed … as far as I’m concerned without any valid reason to be these days except the car-haters are hanging on despite petitions/protests from those hurt by their exclusion and appeals from business/restaurants whose owners/workers are facing terrific suffering!! I doubt Elizabeth May would have handled this issue so incompetently. h.o)

  22. BMCQ says:

    e.a.f.

    We might not see all traffic banned from SP but as everything the anti car politicians and their masters do they will ban, partially ban, or restrict automobile access, traffic, or parking any way they possibly can . As I keep stating, this is a “War on the Car”, it started from goofy leftist politicians that took on the Green Mantra and we now find cities like Vancouver and other cold horrible climate cities where citizens are under snow, ice, and rain for eight months embrace the idea . It is basically a push back against Free Enterprise and Capitalism, it is all about “Symbolism”, it is a strike back against everything the left hates about free society and the vehicle has become their “Whipping uh People Kind”, yes most of those leftist activist groups are just as shallow, incapable, inept, and impotent as Canadian PM Justin .

    It is the opportunists like the wonderful after dinner speaker Elizabeth May, Weaver, others of their ill, the V Parks Board, Suzuki, HUB, V City Mayors and Councils that simply only want to profit or further their careers and they have recognized that the “War on the Car” is a perfect (my apologies) vehicle to use to further their careers, it is easy and it is convenient and it is in your face .

    Then of course they all get major major assistance for their cause from any set of public sector workers and mostly of course about 70% of Educators K right on up through University, what better way to “Educate” the population .

    We will never see Developers erect towers in Stanley Park but as already stated we will see “Chaos” with tents cities, drugs, needles, crime like assaults, human waste, everywhere but we will see reduced vehicle traffic, great inconvenience, restaurants and retail including the aquarium struggle and close, other hotels, restaurants, and retail in the west end suffer and close but we will certainly see smiles on the faces of activist leftist members of HUB, Vancouver Mayor, Council, and Vancouver Parks Board as they will have begun to partially reach their goal, the end of cars in the city .

    Those same politicians will continue to tell you they are working so hard for you, the disabled, oldsters, young families who will have trouble accessing Stanley Park, do not worry, everything will be just fine .

    My wife ELMCQ had a father that was Métis who served in WW II, a mum that was a war tough old War Bride and they did not have much living in Red Deer and took in over the years dozens and dozens of First Nations children who had “Rightly and Properly” been taken into Government Custodian Ship, she knows ALL the facts, many many lives of innocent children were saved because of government intervention,

    I would love to lock Anti Vehicle and Financial Guru Mayor Kennedy Stewart, the Council, and especially the Parks Board in a room with her for ten minutes, they would all come out with a much different attitude .

    I now see the Mensa Member Council at North Vancouver are doing their best to ban cars from the retail area, it was interesting to see and hear retailers and over taxed business owners state that the last thing they want is a reduction in auto traffic as it would harm their business, Will Council listen ? What do you think? Of course they will not listen and a few more business people will make the difficult decision to close . But not to worry the “Car Haters” will have one another battle .

    Just this past week I spent time with close friends that own two different successful restaurants on Commercial Drive they are both very angry and horrified with the fact that the “Car Hater Mayor Stewart and Vancouver Council will soon take away one complete parking lane away from the full length of Commercial, they are sickened . They tell me that at least 70%nof they”Stakeholders” (don’t you love that term) are against the removal of the parking because it is the car that delivers the vast majority it the customers to restaurants and retail on the Drive . Will Mayor and Council Listen “ What do you think ?

    So you might ask the following question, what will the city do without all of the retailers they have lost on Denman St, then up Robson to Burrard where there are now over q00 vacant store fronts, what will city do without vacant store fronts where they have taken cars or parking away ? What about any city that loses revenue from parking ?

    Well Tax Payer, those questions are up to you to answer, I know you might not be quite as intelligent as Financial Wizard, Guru, and Advisor Vancouver Mayor Kennedy Stewart but just the same I am confident that you can guess the right answer to exactly where the Mayor and his Minions might make up for the Financial loss of income from the loss or parking and cluttered business enterprises .

    Yes my friends your guess is correct .

  23. 13 says:

    @eaf
    Industrial Ave. Off of Main St just North of Great Northern Way
    .As for racing through Stanley Park. I turned 16 in 1969. The first place I drove any vehicle or motorcycle I owned was Stanley Park. I once had a VPD on his Harley ask me if I wanted to race him in the park.

  24. e.a.f. says:

    hi 13, know the spot. the other was on Kingsway, yes Kingsway, start line, Wally’s burger’s. In the 60s there wasn’t much traffic on Kingsway at night, well almost none.

    Living in Kits, Stanley Park was a great place to “practise” in my mini Austin 1000. yes, it was orange.

    BMCQ, removing a lane of parking on Commercial Dr. is not going to work for the businesses there or Me. I to know people who own a successful restaurant on Commercial Dr. and that isn’t going to work for them. Parking on Commercial dr. is hard to find. Removing one lane, YIKES. Fortunately parallel parking was always a gift I had, and could do as long as I had an inch or so back and front. The surrounding residential areas are usually packed also, even if you’re willing to walk the 4 or 5 blocks. Many aren’t. (I’m much more athletic when there is food involved). A few restaurant owners own their buildings, but the rest are renting and they will simply leave the area as many good resturants and chefs have done already. They’re out in the burbs. Independent clothing stores–out in the burbs.

    Some of these politicians need to understand once you remove vehicles or make it difficult for them, things will change and become more costly. Read an article a couple of years ago about the loss of productivity in NYC because vehicles can’t get around during the day and it ran into the billions. Deliveries, garbage, all sorts of things have to be done at night because day time, roads are simply to congested. Roads/vehicles are here to stay. We are simply too big to go without vehicles. As I’ve written many times, this is not Europe. You can drive from Rotterdam to Disney World in France in 8/9 hrs. Here that won’t even get you to Calgary. It might get you to Prince George. Even within our urban areas vehicles are necessary to get around in a timely fashion. People work in one city and live in another. they have kids who need to get to day care/school, etc.

    My theory on vehicles in North America vs Europe is, before the car people used horses and in Europe, cities were already crowded. Only the wealthy could use horses and had the money to stable them and have people look after them. In North America people had room and any one could keep horses. By the time cars came around, well we still had room and Europe never did.

    The war on cars will be a war on parents, the disabled, the elderly, kids who play sports, etc. What we need is balance and that is sorely lacking in this “anti war” contest.

    rule one in life, never say never. We have seen politicians trade off one piece of land for another to benefit developers. When I was young I never thought I’d see it almost if not impossible to get a camping spot in a provincial park, but along came that “nice” reservation system and a lot of us were frozen out while “tourists” had all the spots. Some of the large provincial parks are 100% reservation and some are having “camping cabins” built in them. Never is a very long time. We may not see it, but at some point if the city is defunded, wait to see what happens. In politics you first defund something, then withdraw the service because there is no money. Stanley Park will be no different. Create a problem which might take a $200M or more to fix, a defunded City, and viola, a high rise. give it 30 years.

  25. BMCQ says:

    e.a.f. – you are agreeing with me far too much and it is only June, check temperature .

    Taking away parking in any downtown Vancouver area with restaurants or retail hurts residents, consumers, and any enterprise servicing those areas .

    In the case of Commercial Dr much of the area say three blocks around consists of private residences which means there are blocks and blocks of resident only parking enforced by signs and permit stickers for vehicles and that probably makes sense .

    Same for West End Downtown and English Bay Stanley Park, when parking for shoppers and those that visit restaurants or say Stanley Park it creates hardships for retail and restaurants as well as visitors, shoppers, or those visiting restaurants or coffee type shops, especially as those with mobility issues as discussed so many suffer .

    Your comments made me think of something .

    In his overzealous overreach and literal “Attack on the Car” former Vancouver Mayor Gregor, his “Brain” Geoff Meggs and their hateful bitter angry leftist activist car hating minions handed down directions to Vancouver Planning that limited quite drastically the numbers of parking stalls provided in “For Purchase” Condo units in most or all of Vancouver but especially downtown, they more or less said, we do not want people having more parking than we deem proper and within what we call good judgment .

    So even if a family of say four drivers might purchase a large $ 5 million dollar apartment they were/are limited in the number of parking spaces in that building . Then came the designated resident only parking on almost every street which is acceptable but let us keep in mind that if parking was allowed and available in underground space street parking would be more available for retail, restaurants, and others, therefore more people, better for business, and better for revenue and profit which means more tax revenue for the city and other levels of government .

    Interestingly enough and of course media have never asked Mayor Mumbles Robertson once more new buildings with restricted fewer parking spaces pushing more families to seek outside parking were gong up all over Vancouver that Mayor and Council increased the resident parking permit and sticker from about $ 75 per year for each vehicle to something like $ 375.00, that is quite the shell game if you can get away with it and of course that comes right along with the constant “Drip Drip Drip” of somewhere between 4.5 to say 8% real increases in property tax for all of you wealthy “People Kind” . Do not worry though the PC SJW Activist Mayors and Councils are always on your side .

    I must admit you have made me also think about something else, most Canadians IMHO are not all that different if you are say moderate NDP or Conservative, we all want more or less the same thing .

    I am very critical of the activist left as I honestly believe most are and rightly so . Harvey is correct the people we should all be upset with are the angry hateful leftist radicals who now seem to comprise of far too many Green, COPE, Vision, and other similar types who have the Hard Left Ideals that Hate Cars and anything else that means hard work and accomplishing anything positive in life and most of those are involved in Municipal Politics . Having said that I really do question that wonderful after dinner speaker Elizabeth May and her Federsl and Provincial Party especially Andrew Weaver who is always the first to tell you “Hrrrumph, I am always the smartest People Kind in the room” .

    Of course common sense also tells us that Federal NDP Leader Singh is also really whacked out but not to worry, Mr. Singh and his Federal NDP are soon about to be as common as a warm sunny dry day in Squamish during the month of January .

    It is only my opinion but for the most part the moderate NDP and Conservative types would govern the city much the same as the other and the City of Vancouver would benefit from that right now, residents, tax payers, and business cannot survive much longer under the current Mayor, Council, and Parks Board .

    Just wait and see what those B*stards do to Stanley Park, it will be enough to make us all cry .

    (Response: Canadians are moderate: whether they vote left of center or right, history shows we reject extremism on either side that fails to respect and/or include opposing beliefs, interests and lifestyles. That’s where the extremist GREENS/COPE on the Park Board went wrong … right from the start. fueled by loud applause from their discriminatory, exclusionary extremist supporters, and I certainly hope they pay a price for that in the next civic elections. But only if enough moderate people are noticing, and show up at the polls. Because the extremists/activists do … and have taken power! h.o)

  26. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, no temp. check required. have been isolated since 15 march. still am isolated. don’t worry the brain is fine. leg is getting better. vehicles are in storage.

    Yes, I’m aware of the reduced parking in some cities in new condos. OMG, wait until family hallmark occasion dinners for a dozen or more and only 3 parking spaces at the parental units’ condo. Even the off spring is aging and then there are the grandchildren who have started breeding and then the aging baby boomer family members. It could get ugly, the fight over who gets the parking spots.

    Of course one could always hive off to a Golf club for family events. No cooking, no cleaning, every one shows up and the parental units pick up the tab and every one goes home happy–favorite of the parental unit. She didn’t golf though but thought they were useful in their own way, her way.

    A number of the homes around Commercial drive also are Air B & Bs, so you never know who is on the street if you’re walking to get back to your car.

    $375 for a parking pass, holysh……….. that is a tad steep if you’re a tax payer. Not keen on that at all. Its not about the money, its the principle of the thing.
    extreme right or left are never going to work, as Harvey writes Canadians are sort of in the middle. If you take a Red Tory and an NDPer, what is the difference?

    Some may believe Stanley Park could function like Central Park in NYC., but their population base within walking distance is much greater. Stanley Park as do the beach areas along Marine Dr., need to remain open to cars so everyone can enjoy them. Anything less is too elitist. Some may argue its too Green, but in my opinion its elitist.

  27. DonGar says:

    June 18, 2020 Special Park Board Meeting
    NOTE: Speakers will be provided with call-in details and instructions on the day of the meeting. Members of the public will not be permitted to attend in person.

    Choose the agenda item(s) you want to speak about.
    • [ ] COVID-19 Pandemic – Stanley Park Transportation & Access Reopening Plan (for decision)

    Speak at a Park Board Committee meeting about an agenda item
    Request to speak at Committee meetings about agenda items that Park Board commissioners vote on.
    We post agenda items within the week before the Committee meeting.
    Request to speak using the online form below. The deadline is noon on the day of the meeting.
    If you’re unable to use the form, email your request to pbmeetings@vancouver.ca or phone 604-257-8158.

    https://vancouver.ca/your-government/speak-at-a-meeting.aspx

    Hearing is not in person – only online. Likely Video. Not sure about speakers on video or phone.

    (Response: Thanks for this. Unfortunately I believe the farce will continue. The car-hating GREENS/COPE will use their five-to-two advantage to cater to the bike lobby once again. What ever happened to their idea of splitting the road so mobility challenged and businesses and families can also enjoy the full park? I doubt the fascist-style governance at the Park Board will find an excuse to maintain the exclusion of people they see as “untermenschen” …sad, but true ..and nothing will sway them from their fanaticism except a lawsuit by affected concessionaires and handicapped groups etc. h.o.)

  28. 13 says:

    So the lane will open. Or one down and one to go. I guess the best hope for this fiasco will be law suits launched by the privately owned restaurants in the park. Odd that with cars restricted to one lane with a 30 kph limit the spandex crowd needs another lane to ride their bicycles. Hope that the VPD sets up and tickets the daylights out of any two wheeler that surpasses the 30 kph limit. Not just speeding bikes but any that are not wearing helmets.
    Cars, buses , horses, will all struggle while the 17 lb racing bikes have a ten foot wide bike path.
    I guess the two lanes that used to service everyone had to be limited to one to protect the imbeciles on two wheeler s that are incapable of peddling without hitting things .
    Why bother with Vancouver

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