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Petronas Dead; Kinder Morgan Targetted; Site C Menaced: WHERE Are The JOBS???

August 11th, 2017 · 90 Comments

The NDP/Greens are off to a GREAT start!   For their radical base.

Since the minority coalition took power: Petronas pulled out of a $36 Billion LNG project; the government has vowed to fight Kinder Morgan’s $7.4 Billion oil pipeline expansion from Alberta to Burrard Inlet; and BC Hydro’s $9 Billion Site C is also facing possible termination.

The NDP/Greens’ activists and supporters have much to celebrate.

But what about the THOUSANDS of workers who are already employed and/or depending on the many aspects of these projects to support themselves and their families  (housing, food, clothing, disposable spending etc. … all of it through all those jobs on project design, engineering, equipment and services supply, transportation, site preparation and thousands of  construction jobs)?

Those workers NOW employed would no doubt like to know NOW what the government’s is doing NOW to create the jobs they need NOW if Kinder Morgan and Site C are delayed and/or killed .  How do THEY pay their rent/mortgage, take care of their families?

The NDP’s catering to its no-no-no faction is doing absolutely nothing for  … and in fact, will actually hurt …. working British Columbians outside the urban areas … you know, the people in the heartland and the north who depend on resource jobs, major development projects  to not only prosper but survive.

Very strange for a party that USED TO put the fight for blue collar construction and trades workers’ JOBS as their greatest focus   …. not cater primarily to urban armchair socialists, public workers, teachers,  environmental activists and catering to the no-no-no movement.

An article about the Kinder Morgan project in The Globe and Mail reported:  “The Conference Board of Canada has said the project is expected to generate $46.7-billion in government revenues and the equivalent of 40,000 jobs each year for 20 years.”

What NOW?

In Victoria,  a Times Colonist Site C employment update showed   “2,124 workers on the project in January, with 1,719 (81 per cent) identified as being from B.C. There were 677 workers identified as being from the Peace River region. There were 198 aboriginal people working on site and 257 women.”

BC Hydro projected  “Construction of Site C will create approximately 10,000 person-years of direct employment during construction, and approximately 33,000 total person-years of employment through all stages of development and construction.”

What NOW?

Saying the government is going to review or study or plan or consult or call for proposals on all kinds of alternative projects or infrastructure works way down the road will provide LOTS of work for politicians, their staffs, consultants  etc. etc. but it  does absolutely NOTHING for those already working or who need/were counting on jobs NOW …. this summer or fall and next winter.

What are all the workers HIT by the NDP/Greens decisions/actions supposed to do NOW?

Move to Alberta … again?

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts to new postings on this BC blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam, just alerts to new topics posted. h.o.

 

Tags: Uncategorized

90 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Gene The Bean // Aug 11, 2017 at 8:27 am

    ” the equivalent of 40,000 jobs each year for 20 years.”…… – Just think about that for a second……

    So this is going to generate the job equivalencies of twice the population of Squamish, every man, woman and child employed – and then double it.

    A static pipeline, after it is built, needs pumping and compression to be able to bring ‘the product’ to the refinery where it is then either 1) stored for shipment or 2) refined into different products by the existing refinery.

    Equivalent of 40,000 new jobs a year …. ?

    Do they have a thousand guys, three shifts a day, pedaling bikes to pump it?

    Both the left and the right now throw so much BS out there hoping something sticks.

    Construction jobs – yes.
    Maintenance jobs (although it is twinning an existing pipeline) … – yes.
    Additional jobs in the ancillary processes from start to finish – yes.

    40,000 jobs a year equivalent ….. not even frigging close. Absolute nonsense.

    I don’t watch “the news” anymore – mainly because of things like this.

    Pro development says 40,000 jobs – anti development says, I don’t know, maybe 125 jobs.

    The truth isn’t in the middle – it is no where to be seen.

    … and we yammer away at each other debating, cursing and flatuating about this nonsense …..

    Hey, how about those BC Lions…..?

    (Response: You can play with the numbers all you want, but let’s keep it real. Dams and pipelines and mining developments and port terminalsand bridges don’t build themselves. What’s YOUR answer to the THOUSANDS of workers now working on these projects … or who were hoping to get hired on in the next few months? WHERE and HOW are they supposed to go now to support their families? h.o)

  • 2 13.. // Aug 11, 2017 at 8:42 am

    Its amazing how quickly the new government has managed to make it clear that BC is not the place to invest capital. The private sector must be wondering whats next? I wonder how many projects that were on the books beside the ones Harvey has listed will be put on hold or cancelled?

    Where is the money to fund the dazzling array of campaign promises going to come from. Promises made that include a balanced budget from the onset.

    The private sector unions that rely on revenue from sources other that tax payers must be wondering whats next?

    (Response: I should have added the Massey tunnel replacement: I think they’ll kill that too. You do bring up a very important issue: major investors have MANY resource-laden alternatives abroad … so they DO pay attention to not only moves taken by governments, but also words. And it sure doesn’t look to me like the NDP/Greens are off to good start in that regard. h.o.)

  • 3 13.. // Aug 11, 2017 at 8:51 am

    EVERYONE should look back at the Keystone Cop find post #31 Read the last 10 short paragraphs.
    It is a pretty good summary of the coming financial disaster.

  • 4 Marge // Aug 11, 2017 at 9:24 am

    Always the same play card for the NDP. They shoot themselves in the foot by not supporting jobs, spend like it’s going out of style on iffy stuff, then wonder why they are royally booted out the next time round. I wish we had a party that actually cared about its citizens – both socially and economically. Sadly this is not the case again. BC has always had the worst governments ever and I know, having lived in Ontario, Manitoba, Alberta and now here. Nothing beats it when it comes to poor stewardship. Even the NDP in Alberta have it right. Jobs and protecting the environment. What’s so hard about that Mr. Horgan? Another law suit (or several) in the works for the government over contracts not carried out? How much can the people of BC afford to pay? Clark’s BCTF shambles and now Kinder Morgan lawsuits? Why do BC governments believe they can do what they want and we will foot the legal bills that ensue? Sad days again for BC!

    (Response: You would think they would have learned from their own history in power. And I repeatedly asked and warned them …as they announced loads of improvements and new spending ideas …they’d better also be READY with jobs to pay ro it all. Now we’ve seen lots of moves to kill off several major job sources … but, unless I’ve missed it, NOTHING announced to keep employed the thousands of family supporters they’re smilingly tossing aside. h.o.)

  • 5 John's Aghast // Aug 11, 2017 at 9:25 am

    Oh, for goodness sake Harvey, get real! Do you really want the Liberals back with all their non productive jobs? Site C jobs? For what? Just pay them to park their machines. It would be a lot more economical. Then they could spend their time (and money) at the Mall, making the world go around.
    There are plenty of shovel ready jobs that can accommodate all those superfluous workers – widening the TC Highway to the Alberta border for instance. There is plenty of work in the north remediating the damage done by the previous bunch. There are schools to fix, roads to repair, oh I could go on forever. Give these poor buggers a chance, they’ve only been on the job for a month. If they started all these new projects without stemming the bleeding you’d give them heck for spending irresponsibly.
    Keep it Harv and you’ll have the Libs back!

    (Response: Once more, you put words in my mouth. I didn’t say I want the Libs back: in fact, I wrote a blog not long ago calling for the Libs to go and the NDP to be given a chance to govern. But I care more for the middle class workers actually employed on these projects, than the armchair socialists who give the working class lip service, but clearly are ready to see them all tossed aside … unemployed for at least a year or two until the government comes up with its own make-work public projects. Which you and I already know will go BILLIONS over budget. h.o)

  • 6 dan // Aug 11, 2017 at 9:50 am

    1. Never a 36 billion dollar project. Even the company Petronas has never claimed this.

    2. Site C is not required. Even Hydro’s own numbers prove this point.

    3. The pipeline expansion is not for oil. It is for dilbit which is a different substance.

    BTW there is no left or right for me. There is the right government and the wrong government.
    For the past 16 years we have had the wrong government for the people.

  • 7 13.. // Aug 11, 2017 at 9:53 am

    Perhaps the Kinder Morgan pipeline can build to the Alberta boarder. They can build a transfer station (on the Alberta side of the boarder)pump the product into rail cars and send them to the coast. Kinder Morgan can then transfer from rail cars to ships . This activity can go on until the next election where its unlikely the current government will survive. If the new government falls in 18 months or less the damage to these large investment opportunities could be mitigated. Maybe the lawsuits brought by Kinder Morgan against the BC Gov will be dropped.

  • 8 13.. // Aug 11, 2017 at 10:03 am

    Widening the road to Alberta might be the one public sector project that makes sense. If you think about it they really only need to widen the East bound lanes as the majority of the traffic will be heading East.

  • 9 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 11, 2017 at 10:20 am

    While Kinder Morgan’s project stalls, Spectra Energy has been digging away at a huge project, replacing their natural gas line with higher quality 30″ pipe and new pumping stations.

    I know a man who was attracted out of retirement, to work on a pumping station near Merritt. In Chilliwack, a new station is being built, with two jet engines to drive the pumps. The NDP aren’t standing in the way of this.

    As for the Kinder Morgan, I don’t care about the legal battle, really. Market forces will be key in shutting it down, as they have been with LNG.

    We are jumping the gun, to say that Site C is going to be shut down. The NDP campaigned on a promise to get the project to the BCUC and that is being done. Promise fulfilled.

    If the BCUC says it’s a foolish project and a waste of citizen’s money, I sure hope the NDP/Greens follow through with shutting it down and sending the workers packing (or cleaning up the mess.) The workers should be happy to have had a few years’ wages, when — if the BCUC rules — none were warranted in the first place.

    They should also be offered training and employment opportunities in green technology, where the future is.

    Here’s a study by the famous institute named after a BC river… the Columbia River.

    https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/08/10/Going-Green-Construction-Job-Boom/?utm_source=daily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=110817

    And important news on the cost of solar energy: https://perspicacity.xyz/2017/02/13/experts-have-massively-underestimated-solar-why-solar-part-1/

    There are jobs to be had, in retrofits and new energy supply. The NDP also campaigned on that — and need to get going on it.

  • 10 DBW // Aug 11, 2017 at 10:35 am

    Your question “where are the jobs?” is a good one.

    But…

    I am on the Mustel email list for polling information. This was last night’s question and I am paraphrasing.

    The NDP is sending Site C the the Utilities Commission.

    Do you think Site C

    1. Should continue
    2. Be scrapped
    3. Put on hold with the possibility of restarting by 2024

    The question didn’t ask if I was in favour of a review by the utilities commission (I am) nor did it offer me a choice of choosing whatever the utilities commission recommended (I would). It asked for my opinion based on … what exactly?

    This is the problem. Some people are prepared to take jobs whatever the risks. Some people are opposed to projects regardless of the safety standards and economic benefits.

    So for me Harvey, the question based on your specific topic (Site C, Kinder Morgan) should be are these jobs worth having.

    If a review shows that Site C is unneeded, overly expensive etc would you still want it to go ahead for the JOBS?

    “Where are the jobs?” is a good question (the NDP should have a jobs plan) but these mega projects have to be debated on their individual merits.

  • 11 Harry lawson // Aug 11, 2017 at 10:36 am

    Harvey,

    When I was a young man I was told you can’t have socialism with out capitalism . In other words you can’t afford social programs with out a economy to support them

    Are we witnessing the tides / vision Vancouver influence .

    The only bright light is that this is a minority government .

    (Response: As I wrote earlier, I supported and blogged that the NDP should be given a chance to govern. But seems to me like they are forgetting they are a minority government and could be sealing their own return to Opposition with all their kill, kill, kill decisions … and no plan or program to replace those lost jobs workers are need NOW to support their families. h.o.)

  • 12 david hadaway // Aug 11, 2017 at 11:20 am

    Arguing for the Site C dam (and other mega projects) on the basis that it provides employment is economic madness. Just do the arithmetic, that is $5 million per job! We’d be better off building pyramids!

    Projects like this actually cost jobs by misdirecting capital into uses that are at best unproductive and at worst actively destructive.

    Here’s a suggestion. For a lesser expenditure and higher return, more people could be far more usefully employed building something we really need – affordable good quality housing.

    (Response: Another “urban” solution to spend millions of public monies to solve an “urban” problem …. that does NOTHING for the thousands of construction and blue collar workers and their families living up north and the central interior. h.o.)

  • 13 E. Johnson // Aug 11, 2017 at 11:30 am

    “Armchair Socialists” Now there is a phrase to wrap one’s tongue around. I kind of like it. It would appear there aren’t many of those in the interior or northern areas of the province or perhaps they just didn’t bother to vote. Whatever the case the MLA’s representing the people in these areas are going to need to be very vocal in the opposition ranks or it will become quite easy for this government to completely ignore them.

    (Response: It became painfully clear in the last election, the NDP ..which used to hold close to its heart blue collar, construction, industrial, agricultural workers… is now seen by most of these voters as a party that has abandoned them … in favour of urban socialists, intellectuals, environmental activists, public servants, teachers and social program recipients. This IS a problem now for the NDP …they know that … and recent actions do NOTHING to change that. h.o)

  • 14 e.a.f. // Aug 11, 2017 at 11:53 am

    John’s Agast points out a number of projects where B.C. workers can find employment, should the government decide to built these things.

    Just the schools in B.C. which need repair would provide work in all the communities in B.C. Now it is true that would use taxpayer money and not the money from private industry. On the other hand, some of these “private” industry jobs cost the government a lot of money also. Simply have a look at what the B.C. Lieberals gave to resource companies. It would have been cheaper to just send the salaries to the workers each week and not work on the projects.

    The LNG cancelled project, there is the view the NDP is the cause and the other view, there is no market so I’m ignoring that one.

    Cancelling or rather throwing up road blocks on the pipe line, yes it provides jobs. Then there are those who think the jobs aren’t worth it if there is a tanker spill. Some believe its not if, but rather when. How do we get through that. Many in the province believe no number of jobs are worth destroying our oceans and land for the pipeline. I’d tend to agree with them. However, from a political point of view. the NDP is keeping its support from the Greens and a fairly large number of their MLAs and voters by their actions. In the end it may well be up to a judge and then if the government looses, it wasn’t the fault of the NDP/Greens but the federal Liberals.

    I don’t believe the number of tankers set to travel through our waters will be safe. combine it with a few cruise ships and oh, boy what a mess that will be.

    Site C., the Socreds didn’t built if for a reason. Christy Clark had her own reasons for wanting to build it. Given the rate at which renewable energy is being used, we don’t need this dam to provide electricity. its going to cost way too much money and B.C. Hydro is already far too indebt to continue this dam. $9 Billion is better spent on other things, like highway repair and expansion in the rural areas of this province.

    As to jobs, all we hear is how many jobs there already are in this province, how hard its to find tradespeople, etc.

    (Response: You say “should the government decide to built these things.” Well, that doesn’t pay the bills NOW or over the next year for the workers let down NOW by these killer announcements. What are they supposed to do NOW to pay their mortgages, support their families? h.o.)

  • 15 Art Smith // Aug 11, 2017 at 12:13 pm

    Good take Harvey, the NDP seem to go out of their way to discourage any investment by the private sector. It is not just the cancelling of projects, but the attitude that they actively hate that anybody but the government should do anything where they can see a profit. Unfortunately they never seem to learn from they previous fiascos, and no, I am not talking about the Fast Ferries, the Libs managed to screw that up even worse than the NDP. It is the stifling amount of regulations and other red tape they seem to love. Like all good Socialists, they look to control every aspect of one’s life and business.
    One thing I would like to know, from all the anti resource exploitation crowd is, where do they think all the materials for all these so called green jobs come from? I have not heard of anywhere, other than from our own little planet, perhaps they have.

    (Response: I am getting the impression that anything with the word “corporation” attached to it is considered by many NDP/Green supporters as nasty. We can’t ALL be civil servants or employed on public projects: it takes millions of workers employed by COMPANIES to produce the taxes, revenues, royalties that pay for all the great public projects and services the NDP/Greens love so much … and all I’m asking, in light of Petronas, Kinder Morgan, Site C and Massey tunnel …please tell me, WHERE are the jobs for the workers NOW let down??? h.o)

  • 16 Gordon Stewart // Aug 11, 2017 at 12:23 pm

    Harvey, you knew all that before the election; nothing has changed as far as the NDP intent is concerned. Let’s not forget the billions the Liberals have got this Province in debt. I say let’s give the new government a chance to govern and not play Christie’s chant of jobs, jobs, jobs. I’m interested in seeing how much the NDP can save from the millions we are indebted.

    (Response: Easy to say if you’re not one of the thousands of supporting your family at Site C alone … or those who would work on either of the pipeline projects. Strange how none of those happy with the NDP giving the boot to all these jobs has any advice for the workers where to find work? Or should they just be happy with the increase in welfare payments? h.o)

  • 17 Scotty on Denman // Aug 11, 2017 at 12:34 pm

    The new government does not have a “radical base.” Such a base better describes the previous government whose base truly believe that it’s okay to lie about what it was doing to democratic sovereignty in order to hide it from the public who’d surely be outraged at the breaches of trust and sabotage of public enterprises.

    The projects you mention, Harvey, are all duds. You’d scream bloody murder if the NDP affected several billions of dollars worth of make-work projects, but you decry cutting the Site-C turkey loose.

    Kinder Morgan isn’t a jobs bonanza, either. Besides, the issue is the expansion. The existing, pre-expansion jobs are still there.

    There never were any jobs in LNG export, so you can’t blame the NDP, no matter how hard you try, for Petronas pulling out.

    Workers on Site-C have been fortunate to have a job there so far. It’s not like the new government is asking for their wages back. The project was temporary anyway, only a handful or workers—and probably less than that of those actually working there now—would ever make a career at Site-C, should it ever be completed. As it is, the whole thing looks like a dog because there is no LNG industry to rationalize, as was the ostensible BC Liberal plan, powering it with Site-C electricity, and odds are the BC Utilities Commission will rightly question the cost estimates (probably made too low so’s not to alarm voters) and efficacy (when no LNG nor any significant increase in demand).

    You seem to be criticizing the NDP for not doing what you’d surely condemn them for doing if they did.

  • 18 Harry lawson // Aug 11, 2017 at 4:31 pm

    The way B.C has and is being politically managed remind me of the spy vs spy cartoons in mad magazine one side is sabatoging the economics ,the other side sabatoging the social welfare. Meanwhile You have Andrew Weaver acting like Alfred E Neuman going what me worry .

    This is just all so pathetic.

  • 19 D. M. Johnston // Aug 11, 2017 at 5:19 pm

    Site C and Petronas/LNG were never viable in the first place and were more of a political scam to win votes.

    Work done by Norman Farrell, shows that Petronas/LNG, was carnival huckster scam and Site C. more of the same, to keep the BC Liberals in power.

    Kinder Morgan, is being built to move Alberta bitumen oil, but as the petroleum market slumps, it may not be viable either.

    Just back from a sort vacation and drove the Fraser Canyon highway to Boston Bar and North Bend to look at some property.

    Until the mid 50′s, both Boston Bar and North Bend were big railway towns and service the steam locomotives with coal and water.

    Both towns had thriving communities, due to the many railway workers living there.

    Fast forward 60 years and both towns are a shadow of their former selves. Those railway jobs are long gone.

    Even the Canyon highway is grossly underused and hardly any one uses it. The businesses that once thrived along the route are mostly abandoned and derelict.

    There is an aura of silent decay.

    What we think of good construction jobs today, are highly subsidized by the taxpayer and with BC’s debt at $190 billion (including contractual obligations), I do think the NDP/Green coalition has a right to see if the taxpayer is getting good value for money.

    LNG failed because of a market collapse.

    Site c was looking like to fail because of no demand for its expensive power.

    Kinder Morgan may not be built because the world demand for oil is so slack

    We must end the “big” mega project era, due to the fact there is little demand for the mega project’s product.

    Those construction jobs are going the way of those railway jobs in the 50′s.

  • 20 david hadaway // Aug 11, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    Well, I didn’t know good affordable housing was anymore a purely urban concern than, say, doubling Hydro rates. However others above have made good suggestions for the public wealth being wasted in the Peace River.

    I’d like to retract my suggestion that these jobs will cost five million each, however. I omitted overuns, deficits, interest and opportunity cost. Ten million each is a much better guess.

  • 21 johneen ponder // Aug 11, 2017 at 5:21 pm

    I really am disappointed in your blogs lately you are starting to sound like baldry, smythe and palmer. So negative towards the NDP. They are carrying out their promises like they said they would and I for one appreciate it. I live a stones throw from where kinder morgan terminal is and I don’t want it to go through…

    (Response: Thank you for at least stating your own bias: I wouldn’t want the terminal near my place either. And had it NOT ben there for many, many decades, I would never have recommended that location …but it IS there, has ALL the permits it needs (or at least believes it does…courts will determine that). And I did not hear the NDP government this week suggest an alternative terminal site…just the no-no-no response, which the party has an established reputation for with MANY voters. As for reflecting the opinions of others… I state my own view… regardless of who I agree or disagree with on any particular issue. And unlike many of those on here, I care about the thousands of middle class workers who NOW face unemployment because of the NDP/Greens hostility to Petronas, KM, Site C sentiments and even the badly need replacement archaic Massey tunnel replacement. h.o)

  • 22 Hawgwash // Aug 11, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    To say x number of people working on Site C are locals is a fallacy. They are “from the area” only because they went there from somewhere else. They spend little locally because the are in camp and send most of their paycheques home. Home being Alberta, Korea, Mexico and wherever else they were imported from.

    Now or later, when the work stops they will return to their regular homes and another job. Many will just be shifted by their employer.

    With one of the biggest contract holders about to go broke, in spite of an election eve secret money transfusion, it is now to be asked if a lot of those workers will even get a paycheque.

    (Response: Well, I notice you don’t quote a single STATISTIC. Here are the figures, as reported by Energeticcity.ca in Fort St. John : “When it comes to residents of the Peace River Regional District, and B.C. in general, those numbers saw a large amount of fluctuation. February saw a large spike in local hires, with 42 percent of the dam’s workforce hailing from the PRRD, for a total of 749 contractors. That number was an increase of 72 local workers over January, when 677 PRRD residents were employed at Site C as contractors.  February also saw a bump in the number of B.C. residents working as contractors, from 1,348 in January to 1,444.
    Those numbers then saw a decrease in March. The number of B.C. residents working as contractors fell by 27 to 1,417. In that same month, the number of PRRD resident contractors fell by 40 to a total of 709, or 40 percent of contractors. The percentage of B.C. residents employed as Construction and Non-Construction contractors remained at 81 percent in both January and February, then fell to 80 percent in March.” h.o)

  • 23 Rocker Rich // Aug 11, 2017 at 6:06 pm

    Given the breakdown of comments to your post, Harv, one could argue that the NDP/Greens are simply dancing with the (urban) ones that brung them. As well, Horgan pretty well has to throw up impediments to the mega projects to placate Weaver and Co.

    If the Liberals were so confident of Site C, why did they sideline the BCUC? Conversely, if the BCUC gives the dam plan (no pun intended) a thumbs up, the rubber will hit the road for the NDP. If they ignore the Commission and if Trudeau fails to force through the Kinder Morgan pipeline as a “national interest” project, then provincial and federal taxpayers will surely be on the hook for potential billions of dollars in damages to affected corporations. And a likely non-NDP government in Alberta might toy with a referendum to secede from Canada and join the US.

    As for the Massey Tunnel replacement, that’s an easy decision for Horgan. Kill it, fast. Very little preliminary work has begun. A twinning of the tunnel would be far cheaper than the proposed bridge and would require far less farmland to be sacrificed. All the Metro mayors except Lois Jackson of Delta oppose the bridge. So this decision is a no-brainer.

    (Response; Won’t be me who defends the Liberals’ handling/procedures of any of these files. But I’d go out on a limb that the NDP will NOT cancel the Site C project: too much infrastructure is already in place and a couple of thousand people … most of them supporting others … are already working on the project. For a minority government to cancel that one would very possibly seal their defeat in the next election. h.o.)

  • 24 Island Lookout // Aug 11, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    TILLEY HATS VS HARD HATS

    For those who voted NDP/Green in May, I have one comment: I told you so.

    The NDP is on the verge of tearing itself apart. So soon after said election.

    Why?

    By ignoring the province’s legions of deplorables, the Hard Hats, many of whom are NDP supporters.

    You know them, they’re also the ones who do actual hard labour building dams, pipelines and such.

    The other NDPers are mainly the Tilley Hats, the multitudes grinding away in the public sector.

    Insulated from any possibility of job loss they can’t even conceive of the hardships that face the Hard hats. They can’t care, therefore.

    Yesterday’s newser announcing this new government’s intent to try and kill the Kinder Morgan twinning pipeline project was a low point for this government.

    It featured the environment minister who used to work for the Sierra Club.

    It’s one of several often American-based environmental orgs that are doing the bidding of the American Imperium.

    Namely they are lobbying that Canada’s hydrocarbons be left in the ground.

    Not for climate change reasons, but for future pillaging by the Imperium.

    That simple. I smell ministerial conflict of interest.

    That announcment was of such import that that the premier should have been there but wasn’t.

    Where was he?

    I have no clue.

    Was it possible that he was on the phone to the head of the Steelworker’s Union in Pittsburgh?

    That’s the union which gave the Horgan-NDP campaign nearly 700 grand last year.

    Those union members will be building that line. Other members have been making the steel pipe.

    Pay the piper, John!

    Meanwhile St. Andrew Weaver of the fantasy kingdom of Oak Bay-Gordon Head was pontificating on the BNN business network today.

    In high dudgeon he let loose on the poor interviewer.

    He thundered that this pipeline will violate Canada’s carbon release allowance according to the Paris Climate accord.

    Therefore the “line cannot be built.”

    The professor speaks, we all genuflect and await our punishment for being so ignorant.

    Meanwhile the snobs in the Tilley Hats lord it over the rest.

    The NDP is faced with sorting out those two socialist solitudes.

    They won’t because they can’t.

    No one can.

    This new government is on the verge of something bad happening to it.

    Advice to the BC Liberals.

    Find your new leader…QUICKLY.

  • 25 Eldon // Aug 11, 2017 at 8:20 pm

    I too am waiting on the project announcements. If I’m the NDP strategist, I’m not worried about mega projects in the North; they can’t win those seats regardless. For better or for worse they are an urban party now. Put people to work building a project in the Lower Mainland. Become the party of Surrey by finally giving them the light rail expansion they’ve been craving.

    Just to be clear, I am for Kinder Morgan and LNG (although that was dead on arrival IMO). I don’t think building a dam we don’t need just to ‘create jobs’ is a good idea.

  • 26 13.. // Aug 11, 2017 at 11:36 pm

    Harvey I had a rather lengthy post but I deleted it. To put it simply I have to admit that I am finding the angst among the pro NDP crowd very comforting. They all seem to think that nobody will suffer when all of these projects get axed. Someone even came up with some replacement projects. Everyone of them were public sector projects which would create jobs at tax payers expense. So at least the people of BC will still invest in BC.
    I agree with Island lookout the Libs need a leader asap

  • 27 John Jensen // Aug 12, 2017 at 6:35 am

    Cry me a river! So, the B.C. taxpayers should fork out endlessly for mega projects — Site C, pipelines, Fraser bridge, etc. — projects that should never even have been started — just to keep a few thousand people employed? It’s about time we start thinking ENVIRONMENT and come up with actions and projects that pave the way to the future.

  • 28 Hawgwash // Aug 12, 2017 at 8:19 am

    HO;
    Statistics?
    How many times have you said “anyone can mess with numbers”? And before you use BMCQ’s phavoured fraze “don’t put words in my mouth:,” I admit, I paraphrased.

    How about this one, the fifth most misused statistic of all time “You Only Use 10% of Your Brain”?
    Though untrue, it’s oft demonstrated in ye olde blog.
    The other 4 have to do with food and sex; both taboo here.
    ————————
    Island Lookout;
    May 09 election

    May 28 official results

    July 18 NDP sworn in

    Aug 11 “I told you so”

    Aug 12 I am in emergency with splitting sides.

    You must have had great difficulty constantly retching and re-swallowing that bit for as long as you did.
    ————————
    HO part deux;
    I take back my suggestion of another holiday.
    This blog has become such a treasure; you simply must keep entertaining us.
    Besides, you don’t want to be anywhere near Mar-a-Lago, lest Nicolas Maduro starts lobbing rocks that way.

  • 29 Hugh // Aug 12, 2017 at 9:48 am

    “NDP/Green.. radical base”

    Is it radical to have a major dam project undergo a review by the regulator?

    (Response: Yes, if it’s done as a sop to appease a party’s far left radical anti-dam base. That’s what I believe this is: the terms of reference are so limited/manipulated, looks to me like the NDP government does NOT want to and will NOT cancel Site C. If it did, it would be another political catastrophe for the NDP up north etc. h.o)

  • 30 DBW // Aug 12, 2017 at 11:07 am

    Your response @21

    “And unlike many of those on here, I care about the thousands of middle class workers…”

    Are you actually trying to take some kind of moral high ground here. That YOU care but others don’t?

    You also seem fixated on mega project jobs, Jobs, JOBS.

    While Petronas was pulling out of Prince Rupert/Port Edward other projects are moving ahead.

    http://www.thenorthernview.com/business/altagas-signs-major-deal-with-japan-propane-giant/

    (Response: It sure seems like so many people couldn’t care less about how middle class blue collar WORKING families survive up north or in central BC. It’s very easy to sit around …when it’s not THEIR livelihood at stake …to say NO to LNG, NO to mining, NO to Kinder Morgan, NO to Enbridge, NO to all oil pipelines, NO to all oil extraction, NO to oil exports, NO replacing the decrepit dangerous and downright embarrassing (as our PRIME entry route from the US) Massey Tunnel. People keep saying NO-NO-NO and finny thing, they get a reputation for being NAYSAYERS! I can understand when they are private citizens ..easy to toss away jobs, lives, revenues, royalties etc etc. … but when it’s a political that’s in POWER, no one should think they can or will do that without getting criticism …and questions about what are their alternatives. h.o.)

  • 31 Island Lookout // Aug 12, 2017 at 2:32 pm

    #28 HAWGWASH

    The only upchuckers, in this latest BC Games of Thrones (Stones?), are the NDP/Green deplorables who must be wondering how long their new “Camelot” government will last.

    Trouble with Leftie governments is that once in power some caucus members who think they have a little more grip on things start pushing the rest of their least-trusted “allies” out of the lifeboat.

    The struggle gets predictably ugly, naturally. Insults fly, wounds of the “soul” are created and never go away. They remain dormant “until next time” there’s an ideological dust-up. Rinse and repeat.

    This whole exercise in power-seeking is so enervating.

    Meanwhile another storm circulates on the NDP’s perimeter, Andrew Weaver on a hell-bent power trip. Talk about a guy who believes in that old maxim, “it’s my way or the highway.” Stand-by for a ragged outcome down the road at some point for the NDP.

    Meanwhile BC’s economy unravels while interminable studies begin and the gathering ideological storm within the government proceeds apace and gathers speed.

    Site C, Kinder Morgan, United Steelworkers union, and NAFTA talks beginning days from now.

    And the forest fires.

    BTW where is my $400.00 rent-help cheque, Johnny? Snap to it, boy! There’s a good lad. And don’t forget those BC Ferries seniors’ coupons! I have so many demands. And I want them ALL met. Now!

    This all reminds me of autumn 1975 in BC politics.

  • 32 BMCQ // Aug 12, 2017 at 2:58 pm

    Could be wrong but I believe Horgan and his Team have chosen to attempt to delay the KM Project to satisfy much of their Base in YVR, Vancouver Island, Greens, Much of First Nations, Students, BCTF, Public Sector Workers and others.

    Horgan has chosen to WASTE Tax Payers Dollars by calling in Legal Heavy Weight and well respected Lawyer Tom Berger.

    Berger has an impressive record and is a formidable Foe, he is well into his 80′s and you can be sure he will have a Legal Team with him that will be very capable and they will cause very lengthy delays for KM.

    Berger and his Team will not come cheap and I would not be surprised that the Tax Payers could end up being on the Hook for $100 Million or more, you do understand that Horgan will be spending your money on this Correct?

    Then there is the part of the $ Millions of Federal Tax Payers Dollars First Nations will be spending on this same KM fight and the many others that will come up.

    I believe that by playing to his base on KM Horgan feels he will have offered “Lip Service” to that Base and he will then be able to anounce the continuance of Site “C” later in November after the Review is complete and confirmed by BCUC.

    Much like a Game of Chess you see and Horgan has just made himself Grand Master.

    Of course we must give much credit to His Brain Geoff Meggs for this charade I am quite confident Horgan and his Minions feel that their Base is fooled very easily.

    Of course then after two years or so the KM will likeky get the go ahead after a negotiated agreement that sees the Feds, the Province, and Kinder Morgan providing a certain amount of Funds to various FN, some guarantees on the content of the Labour Force, and more Enviro Regs.

    That is of course unless KM Step up to the Plate and File a Major Law Suit against the Horgan Government which they would quite likely win.

    KM needs to determine if it is worth the negative PR to challenge Horgan in Court, if the answer is yes then Berger and his Team will fight for a while but then tell Horgan that he should negotiate, settle, and allow KM to continue with conditions.

    Horgan still looks good to his Base but he also will still costs Tax Payers $ Millions.

    I believe KM will still continue to work the Project on Private Land and in Alberta while the Legal wrangling takes place.

    By the way, I find it interesting that WELL KNOWN After Dinner Speaker Elizabeth May has vanished much like the returning Salmon and is MIA on this mess.

  • 33 Brian // Aug 12, 2017 at 4:14 pm

    Why should the BC tax payer spend money on a form of electrical generation we do not need. Ruining some of the best land left in the province. Please don’t make it seem like the government had anything to do with Petronas putting their project in moth balls. They did not. The LNG market decided that. I could not care one bit about site C jobs. Why do these workers expect me to pay there wages. If Site C is such a good idea let the private sector build it and they can pay the workers. No private company would risk 15 billion on the project. Big waste of tax dollars. Not long after you are dead and gone these jobs will be long gone and the debt will remain. Spend the money on new forms of energy production. 15 billion would create a whole new energy system. Stanford U. in California is doing some amazing things. We should be creating jobs in the types of solar panels they are producing. Every office tower and high rise condo will be able to produce their own electricity in the near future. The stick on panels created by Stanford will change how we power everything from buildings to laptops and cell phones. Check it out below.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/12/141203-xiaolin-zheng-emerging-explorer-solar/

  • 34 nonconfidencevote // Aug 12, 2017 at 4:54 pm

    I dont care who’s in power in this “clinging to power by their fingernails” govt..
    Bozo the Clown and his sidekick Happy the Puppet.
    Who cares.
    Just so long as Christy Clark is gone…..I’m happy.

  • 35 BMCQ // Aug 12, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    John Jensen – 27

    You did not list ALL of the Major Projects that you want to cancel but I am going to guess that your list would include ANY and ALL Pipelines, LNG right across B.C., The Massey Bridge, and Site “C” for starters.

    I would like to ask you exactly what Major Projects or other types of Economic Development you have in mind to as you say help “Pave the Way to the Future”?

    By the way, there are literally THOUSANDS of Hard Working B.C. Tax Payers with Families to Support that have Mortgages to Pay for very expensive Homes, along with High Rents, other Living Costs, and the rest that actually need Employment “RIGHT NOW “, not when we can One day in the Future Power Up the Province by employing the use of “Dilithium Crystals”.

    I for one am impatient to hear your Solution.

  • 36 dan // Aug 12, 2017 at 5:49 pm

    Harvey, is the title you kindly ask where are the jobs.
    I wonder if you have had a chance to peruse this study from Columbia.
    Happy reading.
    http://columbiainstitute.ca/resources/jobs-tomorrow

    (Response: GREAT read. Very interesting and full of hope. Unfortunately the title says “Tomorrow” … and the reports talks about goals achievable for 2050. I support those objectives. But …here we come …what about those construction and resource workers so many NDP/Greens supporters are trying to toss aside NOW? What are they supposed to do and work on NOW in central and northern BC to support their families … and what are Fort St John and many other communities in that area supposed to do to live and grow NOW? h.o.)

  • 37 DonGar // Aug 12, 2017 at 6:14 pm

    Harvey,

    Not to worry there will be lots of jobs under the NDP/Greens.

    1) Tons of lawyer positions handing all the law suits around stopping all the projects started under liberals as well as wrong full dismissal cases and slander cases.
    2) Thousands of new union daycare positions to handle the demand for the $5 a day care
    3) Thousands of new union teacher positions for lower class sizes, free adult education and ESL.
    4) Hundreds of new union poverty advocates positions for downtown east side adding to the over a million a day already spent.
    5) Thousands of new union hospital, special needs, and elderly support workers
    6) Ten of thousands of new union workers in green jobs for government developed wind farms, solar farms, tidal farms.
    7) Thousands of union construction jobs for social housing development and hundreds more to manage all those developments once completed.
    8) Thousands more for green transit in metro like the subway to no where.

    Problem solved so all those bad projects like site c, kinder morgen etc are not required the government has tons of money to create lots and lots of jobs simply by taxing the rich, corporations and brining in new home owner taxes all this can be easily paid for and their base of dependant voters will increase 10 fold.

    I would ask that the NDP party pay for the Vancouver bi-election caused by their hiring of Jeff Meggs. This should not be a taxpayer expense.

    (Response: Yikes! You may not be that far off! LOL! BUT unfortunately those would likely all be URBAN jobs in Vancouver and Victoria/ And frankly, I just can’t see most of the thousands of workers who do REAL work: excavating, moving tons of earth around in one scoop, building cement forms, erecting steelwork, laying pipe, etc. being seen as qualified for all the paper-pushing and baffle-gabbing jobs you are predicting. h.o.)

  • 38 Lulymay // Aug 12, 2017 at 7:17 pm

    Harvey, I’m living in Coquitlam right now and a fairly big project is underway to replace/improve a natural gas line nearby (Mariner Way). Nearly all the vehicles I see near this project have – guess what – Alberta licence plates. Apparently most of the workers on this project are being brought in by bus somewhere further out than where I live.

    As well, I came off the PM bridge and headed for Mariner to head home and followed a huge truck carrying great large pieces of equipment, obviously needed for this project. Guess what? this big transport vehicle carrying, what was obviously needed supplies for the gas line project, carried an Alberta licence plate. Honestly, I don’t see any jobs or purchase of major supplies to upgrade this pipeline being from BC, but rather from Alberta. As well, the Site C dam contracts already let by the Liebs seem to all have gone to Alberta companies and most of the workers are Alberta citizens. So, please, tell me from your vast knowledge of what happens in BC, what financial benefits/jobs are actually accruing to BC business or people desperate for work? You see, just because work has been carried out on various projects, the most expensive and you have to admit we have no idea how much Site C will ultimately cost, for power not needed by the citizens of BC and will ultimately subsidize corporations from out of province who have exploration activities going on in BC, who is actually will benefit from this mega project that from what I have seen so far, does not provide work or financial benefits for the taxpayers of BC?

    (Response: This is from a very well respected BC reporter Les Leyne article: “It counted 2,124 workers on the project in January, with 1,719 (81 per cent) identified as being from B.C. There were 677 workers identified as being from the Peace River region. There were 198 aboriginal people working on site and 257 women”.
    The project is expected 10,000 direct construction jobs over the eight-year build … that’s a LOT of BC work and BC spending and BC revenues by the time it’s done. Ask the businesses in and around Fort Ft. John. As for seeing some trucks (or even some workers from elsewhere) …so what? On huge construction projects, people DO come from all over: should people from Newfoundland and Nova Scotia have been denied work in the tar sands of Alberta … or what about the 50,000 British Columbians who went the other way ..MANY to Alberta…when the NDP was in power before and BC became a have not province? h.o.)

  • 39 DBW // Aug 12, 2017 at 8:01 pm

    I am sooooo confused.

    Harvey says @29 “looks to me like the NDP government does NOT want to and will NOT cancel Site C”

    And BMCQ in his rambling way, seems to say much the same about Kinder Morgan as well as Site C.

    So in answer to your question: Where are the jobs? Well there you be.

    Why the scaremongering headline? Sounds to me like the NDP’s “radical armchair urban socialist” (did I leave anything out) base are the ones who should be upset.

    (Response: Why do you consider it scaremongering to ask a question? Where ARE the jobs NOW for those up north after the NDP government turned its back on them as it fights to stop Kinder Morgan from going ahead? Let the thousands affected know NOW what they are supposed to do NOW. And Site C … I do predict that WILL go ahead …but again, if the NDP kills that project too, where are the jobs for the thousands NOW working there??? And what about the economic impact on the whole Fort St John area? …h.o)

  • 40 13.. // Aug 13, 2017 at 8:12 am

    @BMCQ and Harvey. I have to wonder if Horgan might not cancel site c. Unless BCUC gives this project a green light how is he going to justify the project. Ive spent a few hours reading the many reports on the insights blog re site c. If these numbers are correct and the BCUC findings compare, Horgan will need to really spin hard to push the project forward.
    For the time being Horgan need not worry about a confidence vote . Maybe he thinks that somehow he doesnt need support outside of the urban ridings. Maybe he believes that the Green support out weighs the private sector construction support. It seems that he thinks with all of the various public sector support plus the enviros he can hold onto power.

    (Response: With ANY major projects, you can find reports and studies saying it would be not be viable …and you can find reports and studies saying how good it would be. Governments (and activists on both sides) pick and choose the data that supports their own objectives. h.o.)

  • 41 13.. // Aug 13, 2017 at 8:20 am

    BTW if the BCUC gives this project the go ahead do you think this will placate the followers of the insight blog? Will the many on the HO blog that have claimed that the BC LIBS would not allow the review because of their agenda be okay with the BCUC findings? Once again unless the BCUC gives a green light the project might not go ahead.

    (Response: Of course not. those who oppose Site C will say the review FAILED to look at ALL the evidence, was too restricted in its mandate etc. Guaranteed. But I believe the NDP government knows they have far more votes to lose …not just in that area, but province wide …by canceling that project. h.o.)

  • 42 Hawgwash // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:21 am

    How independent is BCUC?

  • 43 13.. // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:24 am

    Just listening to Jill Bennett talking to Keith Baldry. Apparently the NDP will spend (waste) millions of tax payers dollars to fight Kinder Morgan. The basis of the fight is the UNs resolution that indigenous peoples have a veto over projects on their land. First Nations would have the veto. If the courts were to give the NDP the legal right to stop KM based on that argument in court we would set a precedent that would turn Canada into a country held hostage by First Nations.

    (Response: I think the UN has more urgent issues it should address: like the rights of the INDIGENOUS peoples of Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Syria, Kuwait, the Emirates, etc. h.o)

  • 44 Gene The Bean // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:39 am

    The BCUC was ignored by the BC LIEberals as it is an institution that looks after the broader interest – ie: the people of BC. All that conservatives care about are themselves.

    If Site C was built as planned, thirty years ago, we wouldnt have had the IPP “scam of the century” foisted on us. How nice would that be…..

    And…. who knows …. those good progressive governments in the 1990′s that actually benefitted the populace by ensuring corporations paid taxes and that resource extraction paid their fair share may have gotten into LNG. The timelines fit with what Russia and Australia and many others were doing, Site C would have provided local low cost electricity without the need for hundreds of KM of transmission lines and we could have (emphasis on WE) done very well as a Province.

    Nah.

    Who wants the ‘guvmint’ to do good things for the people? The ‘guvmint’ should only ‘smooth things over’ so business can prosper – right?

    We all want corporations and billionaires to be richer and things like real estate to become unaffordable…. right?

    We all want to be marginally employed so our leaders stock portfolios show massive profits and the dirty rich from other countries can strong-arm their way into influence within Canada – right?

    We all want our children’s future to be so screwed up that they will never have our standard of living so the morally bankrupt conservatives can selfishly have more more now now – right?

    Said no Scandinavian ever……….

  • 45 Brian // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:40 am

    A few thousand jobs is nothing in the big picture.

    (Response: Must have missed the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of jobs the government has planned in “the big picture” for Fort St John and other parts of northern and central BC. Please let us know where they are. h.o)

  • 46 DBW // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:51 am

    Harvey the question is fine. I said that in my first post. But your headline included the words menaced and threatened. And they may very well be. But much of what you have said in your responses paints a different picture. You think Site C will go ahead. And the terms of reference for the government in the Kinder Morgan court case is to ensure that certain environmental and FN issues are addressed.

    Those are issues that the NDP campaigned on. If the utilities commission gives Site C the go ahead it will go ahead. If it turns out to be too expensive and unnecessary, then it will be cancelled and the money used for other infrastructure jobs.

    Kinder Morgan is a bit dicier but the government is limited in what it can do.

    We all have our biases Harvey. That was never more obvious when I saw a bunch of fish in a First Nations carving and you saw a swastika.

    You see the NDP as job killers. I see them as being attentive to the environment. We could both be right (or wrong).

    You have every right to demand that the NDP (any government for that matter) be conscious of the need for good paying jobs. But at the same time these two projects are controversial. There is no surprise that the NDP is doing what they are doing.

    They have been in office for three weeks. The opening of the legislature is a few weeks away. Before we get our knickers in a knot it would be nice to see what actually happens.

  • 47 13.. // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:53 am

    @Lulumay
    When you see an Alberta plate on a transport truck it does not mena the truck is from Alberta. What it means is the transport company has operations in both BC and Alberta. Because it is MUCH cheaper to buy insurance in Alberta than from ICBC most transport companies greyhound ets will plate their equipment anywhere rather than icBC

  • 48 Hawgwash // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:54 am

    DBW @35.

    I get your puzzlement.

    Sentence one; ” Well, I notice you don’t quote a single STATISTIC.”
    Sentence two; ” This is from a very well respected BC reporter Les Leyne article;”
    Sentence three; “Governments (and activists on both sides) pick and choose the data that supports their own objectives.”

    Pinball anyone?

  • 49 dan // Aug 13, 2017 at 1:21 pm

    For the posters mentioning site C, remember some important facts in the background;

    At first the claim was site C was required for domestic consumption. Then when that was proven false by hydro’s own numbers the story changed.

    Burrard Thermal at 900mw and already paid for was mothballed by the socred/liberals to justify in part site C development.

    It isn’t difficult to comprehend why the socred/liberals didn’t want a review by the BCUC

    So almost 2200 jobs for a power project we don’t require? Socialism at its finest I would observe….

  • 50 e.a.f. // Aug 13, 2017 at 1:29 pm

    Not a fan of Les L. A tad to far too the right.

    People are suspicious of Site C. The costs aren’t “firm”. Neither is the ground the dam is being built on. There are opinions that the dam is not being built on ground that will hold up under the test of time and the current contractor has had to “re build” some areas.

    The contractor who “won” the contract is banned in other parts of the world due to “corruption”. (SNC Lavalin) So the B.C. Lieberals had to hire them? Then there was the no small matter of the Alaska Highway news accessing the job descriptions being used to recruit office staff. Included was the phrase about recruiting foreign workers and reporting to the federal government on the foreign workers.

    We may read what the government and the main contractor wants us to read, but really what is the truth. The government wasn’t that forth coming to begin with and they haven’t been the most “honest” bunch either. Who can forget B.C. Rail, the IPPs. the B.C. Hydro debt. You can forgive some of us for not believing much of it.

    The cost of the dam will most likely be double the first guesstimate of $9 billion. Solar and wind power are becoming much more efficient and cost effective. The amount of land available for farming is decreasing with climate change and we will need all the farming land the earth can muster with the constant increases in population.

    Site C isn’t about the power, its about the water and how much can be exported in the future. there is no guarantee this dam won’t be sold in the future and with it the water. The NDP may be in government now, but it won’t always be. we the tax payers of the province would be stuck with the original costs of the build, not that many of us will be around.

    The Greens and many within the NDP aren’t keen on Site C. Just as the B.C. Lieberals had their pay to play, the NDP will have to deal with their base. In the case of the B.C. Lieberals they paid to play and got “deals” like not having to pay their electricity bill. With the current government they’re going to have to go through the process to “prove” to their base how they came to their decisions and if it was started by the B.C. Lieberals, its going to be either canned or the case of the dam, reviewed. The reality of politics dictates it.

    The pipelines, will be decided by a judge and when it goes forward the NDP can say, we tried, the feds and the judge made us do it.

    They have hired Berger so it maybe that some sort of settlement can be reached and have the pipeline proceed, by dealing with the First Nations claims and rights.

    What worries me are all those ships going through our harbour. There will be a spill, it won’t be small and the coast will be a disaster. We all remember the Exon Valdiz don’t we?

    A tanker through our waters every day with cruise ships in the summer. not a happy picture. Perhaps half that number and some might be sold on it.

    There will be enough material to keep us all busy for the next 4 years. enjoy.

  • 51 BMCQ // Aug 13, 2017 at 2:31 pm

    It always makes me laugh how some on the “Rabid Left” on this Blog see a Conservative Bogey Man under each and every Bed!

    It seems that some here see nothing but Bad in any Corporation or anything that may say Conservative.

    Well guess what, it is NOT JUST Countries that happen to have Governments that consist of “Free Enterprise/Conservative” Elected Governments that harvest Natural Gas, Oil, other Natural Resources and somehow they seem to manage to harvest those VALUABLE Natural Resources and not run afoul of Regulators, Greens, NDP Types, the PC, or any Activist Group of any particular Brand.

    Let’s look at Natural Gas as an example.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_natural_gas_production

    Why is it I ask that so many Countries other than the Dictatorships are able to work together to extract and harvest valued Natural Resources, Transport those Resources by Pipelines, Ships, and everyone in those Countries benefits from the sale of those Resources and there is no harm done?

    Something else to consider, do you notice that not many of the Countries on the list have a mostly Obstructionist First Nations Lobby along with their phony “Snow Flake” Activist Anarchist Supporters to contend with.

    If the Federal Government does not soon make serious changes to how the Provinces and Feds deal the First Nations Lobby and how we deal with the Phony FN Rights lobby we are doomed to end up in a quagmire of something a lot thicker and messier than Chicken Noodle Soup!

    Ask yourself, just where does Funding come from for First Nations, Canadian Health Care, Education, Employment for the Masses, Infrastructure, Transit, Airports, Highways, Power, etc. come from if we do not have a Healthy and Vibrant Economy mostly fueled by our Extraction and Export of natural Resources over the next at least 30 years?

    Contrary what some Snowflakes would like to think we will be not be independent of Fossil Fuels for at least 30 years.

    In the meantime until the Wind Malls and Dilithium Crystals come On Stream to power us up we in Canada and B.C. need to get everything we can out of Natural Gas/LN, Oil, Mining, Fishing, Lumber, and the rest

    Some here mumble about Scandinavia and what they can do there to support Programs such as Education, Health Care, Housing, and so many other requirements of a civilized Society.

    Those same people here that point out the virtues also neglect to mention the 65% Income “Tax, VAT between 20% and 30% huge deficits, and other burdens of the Welfare State.

    As I have pointed out before Norway is always held up as the “Poster Trans Gendered Child” of many on the Left as a Country and Society that provides for it’s Population by ensuring that those Programs just mentioned are available for any and all that demand them.

    And of course that includes a huge population of Economic Migrants that Norway are doing their best to rid themselves of.

    How does Norsway accomplish all of this one might ask.

    Do they/Norway go the way of “Mensa Members” John Horgan and Weaver (Weaver tells you himself he is the smartest Guy in the room) or have they found another way to create a somewhat Vibrant Economy by harvesting natural Resources and Employing the Population of that Country?

    Why as a matter of fact it appears that Norway has Natural Gas, Oil, Offshore oil Platforms, Pipelines, Oil and Gas Tankers navigating their Fjords and Pristine Water, they manufacture Aluminum, Mine Base Metals such as Cu, Pb, Au, Ag, and they Export ALL Of IT!!

    How can it be you might ask? Well have a look at the attached and you can see for yourself.

    Then to add the FINAL Insult to the whole piece of Pie Norway has a Thriving Fish Farming Industry, the Largest anywhere in the World.

    “Say it Ain’t So Bean, Say it Ain’t So”!!!

    Now ask yourself, if Norway can accomplish ALL of this and create about the 20th largest GDP in the World, what is wrong with Canada doing the same with LNG Oil, Pipelines, Tankers, Fish Farming, and the rest?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Norway

    Can any of you speak against what Norway has accomplished?

    Why can Norway accomplish this and at the same time be held up as a Great Socialist Caring Nation, Inclusive, Fair, Sunny Ways and all of the rest?

    Do any of you dare ask yourselves why the Premier of Alberta and Horgan are Polar opposites when it comes to KM and other Pipeline issues?

    Would not be Pandering or cheap Petty Politics would it?

    DBW – 39

    Thank you for the cheap shot, very classy.

  • 52 BMCQ // Aug 13, 2017 at 2:47 pm

    Norway

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/30122016-norway-energy-profile-worlds-third-largest-natural-gas-exporter-analysis/

    Norway will find a huge emand for it’s LNG Exports.

    much of the EU was resourcing their NG in a round about way from Russia which was piped through the Ukraine.

    The Ukraine and Russia have had a very poor relationship for quite some time and when Russia began to literally squeeze the EU on the price of NG the Ukraine balked and Russia actually cut off parts of the EU for a period of time.

    The EU will do everything they can to purchase LNG from Norway or other Countries when and if available.

    Contrary to opinions on this Blog and other places Infrastructure for oil and Gas Harvesting is NOT based on Today’s market Price.

    The Infrastructure is built today for the harvesting of product tomorrow, the price is not relevant and the Corporations or Country in the case of Norway look at an Average Price over the years.

    My Company is a fairly large consumer of NG and I have Booked Forward Price for the next five years.

    Our Provincial Government needs to think very seriously about their Obstructionist policies before it is too late and many large Corporations we need now and later abandon their investment plans for B.C.

    We cannot ALL work for Government in the Public Sector!!

    Or is that something you NDP Supporters on this Blog propose?

    Now we are all awaiting your comments as to why Norway and Alberta CAN and we in B.C. CANNOT!!!

    The Hard Working Tax Payer of B.C. also would like to know why?

  • 53 13.. // Aug 13, 2017 at 7:47 pm

    Conservatives are morally bankrupt? It appears that the social engineers known as the NDP are going to be financially bankrupt , and never had any morality to begin with.
    Tweedledee and Tweedledum might have cooked up a deal to seize power in BC but its a deal that was made in bad faith. Public sector trough dwellers and tree hugging hippies are the perfect pairing. The rest of the population that actually go to work and produce our GDP are not part of the equation for the geendp. They are simply the atm that supplies the endless flow of cash to fund the guaranteed pension plans, stress leave, sick days and the endless array of perks and benefits that somehow always elude the private sector workers and their corrupt unions.
    Well GTB I suppose that in your world everyone that doesnt work for the guvmint is morally bankrupt. Guess what , sooner or later the money to pay the tax to pay the public sector has to come from somewhere.
    The rabid left suffer from delusions of grandeur
    dont they eh, gtb

  • 54 e.a.f. // Aug 13, 2017 at 7:55 pm

    what is really great about Norway and their resources is they kept the money in the bank. its all owned by the country. In B.C. not so much. Have an amazing railway also.

    Alberta blew the money which Peter Lougheed had saved and that was just what the Conservatives did.

    Alaska has the “dividend”.

    The 3 areas I’ve mentioned, the money all helped the citizen taxpayers of the areas. B.C. who knows. We’re already over a $100 billion in debt or owing through some method, so why go into further debt. Yes I understand spending money to make it, but with B.C. right wingers, not since “WAC Bennett have I believed a politician that the citizens would actually benefit from something, and I wasn’t so sure of his either, but he produce some very interesting things which we did benefit from. he did build a railway which el gordo “gave away”. he did build some very good highways.

  • 55 DBW // Aug 13, 2017 at 8:21 pm

    BMCQ, you are correct. I shouldn’t have said you were rambling. But good grief, you were speculating all over the place in post 42. At least I read it enough to figure out that you did think that both projects would go ahead. I should get points for that, right?

    But this is my problem with this whole post. We have two controversial projects. Some like you and Harvey and 13 and Island Lookout and others think they should go ahead because of the jobs and the revenue they should generate. Valid argument.

    Others oppose these projects for economic (Site C) and/or environmental (KM) reasons. Also valid arguments.

    And there are still people like me who haven’t made up their minds (and maybe some who have) who appreciate the NDP following through on their election promise to send Site C to the BCUC and to fight KM through the courts which seems to be limited to ensuring that First Nations are heard and that some environmental issues are met. Is there something wrong with that?

    So here we are arguing and speculating about what may or may not happen and each of us is looking at it from our own limited perspective. The whole thread is a ramble including my post right now.

    To be fair, though. Harvey’s question: “where are the jobs is a good one” regardless if these projects go through. Even if they do go ahead I still hope that the NDP has a plan for other industries particularly forestry and green energy. And if they don’t go ahead then that plan is even more important.

    But until the legislature actually sits and we know exactly what’s going on, we are just barking at each other.

    Sorry for rambling.

  • 56 BMCQ // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:34 pm

    e.a.f. – 54

    As expected I rightfully assumed that someone or several NDP Punters on this Blog would avoid the points I made about Norway and deflect by pointing out State Ownership of some Natural Resources like Oil and Gas.

    You say that “Norway kept the Money etc.”, correct?

    Does that mean if Alta, B.C. Or Canada
    ‘Kept the Money etc.” you and others would then endorse Harvesting and Transport of Oil, NG, and LNG?

    AGAIN, are Norway and other Nations that Harvest and Transport Better at the tasks than Canadians or Canada? Are We Inferior?

    Why is it they can accomplish what I have Pointed out and we cannot in most cases get the Transmission in Gear?

    I am going to suggest that I will not get ANY solid Replies on the Norway questions.

    DBW – 55

    Kinder Morgan has been Pumping and Exporting Oil for over 60 Years and the only incident was caused by a Back Hoe Operator that must have spent his Lunch time tanking up at the Admiral Hotel.

    Can you or someone else please inform the “Great Unwashed” just what Green Energy Projects that are actually profitable without subsidy, create good jobs, and employ a healthy number of people that can be at start up stage right now?

    Many from your Party spew out the worn out “Value Added to Logs” Talking Points.

    i have never been able to get even one example of what that means from any one in the NDP.

    After watching the NDP perform the past several weeks I am quite doubtful that any of the following B> Liberal Built Projects would see the Light of Day under Horgan and his friends. Some of these listed were actually part of the Joy McPhail/Glen Clark ideas but they would never have been built under Horgan.

    Port Mann Bridge
    2010 Olympics
    Whistler Legacies
    Blckcomb’
    Cypress
    Sea to Sky
    B.C. Place re build
    Convention Center
    QE Park Legacy
    RICMOND Oval
    Canada Line
    Evergreen Line
    Canada Line
    Expo Line

    These well worth while Projects have made life easier for ALL of the People of B.C. And just like Site “C”, KM, LNG, they created REAL JOBS.

    Yes we have Debt but that Debt is from REAL Infrastructure Projects unlike Ontario which is now the Largest Non Sovereign Debtor in the World ONLY because of Government Growth with literally NO Infrastructure Projects to show for the BIllions in Long Term Unsustainable Debt.

    Yes there were problems with some Contract over runs and that was a gross error, contracts should be firm with a reasonable contingency.

    You would at least think that by now Horgan may have mentioned JUST ONCE that the Tolls will be removed on Jan 1 2018!!

    To implement the HUGE number of promises the Horgan NDP had in their Platform will cost the People of B.C. Well over $ 3 Billion, to service that we need to have a Healthy and Vibrant Economy and to have that the People of B.C, need Good Jobs that bring Taxes, Royalties and Fees in or we will be in a Deficit Position.

    A wise Woman once said, “Socialism Works Great but only until you run out of other People’s Money”!

    I await my reply from John Jensen and we ALL await replies on my questions regarding Norway and their ability to Harvest, Process, Transport. and Distribute Oil, Gas, and LNG without their Environment and World Collapsing around them.

    I am quite afraid that

    “Winter is Coming”

  • 57 John's Aghast // Aug 14, 2017 at 9:04 am

    DBW, don’t be sorry for rambling. One of the few posts that actually made any sense here.

  • 58 E. Johnson // Aug 14, 2017 at 9:09 am

    Where are the jobs coming from is a valid question. Perhaps I missed it but the NDP did not make that very clear during their campaign nor since they have taken power. The other day one of the new cabinet minister’s stated they have projects coming up in the future so we should not be concerned that there will be no pipeline jobs. I suppose we can all speculate on what they have up their sleeves. I see a few posters tossing the term “snowflakes” around quite frequently. Anyone care to provide a definition? I am guessing it is not positive or flattering.

  • 59 Brian Snelling // Aug 14, 2017 at 9:41 am

    Oil and gas employs about one percent of BC workers. So for you to claim hundreds of thousands of jobs is just wrong. Besides we are talking Site C not Oil and Gas in Fort St. John. I for one am tired of the corporate welfare that oil and gas receive for such a small industry with so few good long lasting jobs. It is a boom and bust industry at best. The rest of the world is moving away from fossil fuels. Even the Saudi’s are investing huge in solar. They are going to sell power to Europe from their solar farms in the desert when no one needs their oil. I watched a report on 60 Minutes showing how they (the Saudi’s) are preparing for the post oil world. We need to get with it. Going forward the good jobs will be in renewable energy. What will fort St. John do then? I suppose people that want all these oil and gas jobs do not believe climate change is largely due to human activity in fossil fuels. Also if you don’t believe climate change is real why save some of the best farm land in BC. I say save the land for my grand kids so they have something to eat when California is scorched earth. That is what I see as the ‘BIG PICTURE’ But then again I believe climate change is true and will cause food shortages all over the world if we do not stop projects like Site C and fracking gas and oil. Drill Baby Drill equals Kill Baby Kill that is what I believe. Go Tesla! Go Solar! Go Wind Turbines.

    One last point. One new turbine at Mica dam would cost one tenth of Site C and would generate half the power. Half the power for one tenth the cost without flooding any good farm land. That would be enough generation to keep us going while we transition to renewable energy.

  • 60 Brian // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:06 am

    Fifteen Billion divided by four million is three thousand seven hundred and fifty bucks for each BC resident. So if you have a family of four that is fifteen thousand tax dollars (before interest) your family will pay for Site C. I can think of many better things to spend fifteen grand on.

  • 61 RIsaak // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:08 am

    In the interests of keeping this blog real, how many seconds til this corporate failure is rested at the feet of Horgan & co.?

    http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/petrowest-announces-demand-notice-and-consent-to-receivership-640219933.html

    The business case for the entire site C debacle has been sketchy at best, any private corporate entity would never pursue such a project, especially given the absolute absence of a sound business case for the entire project. But I suppose the original reviews under the Socreds were so fatally flawed?

    I suggest the lenders of the nation realize the unsustainable and outright failure of this contractor to remain solvent. The same criteria should have long ago been employed by the Hydro ruining, massive debt incurring & habitual raiders of this once shining crown corp, the BC Liberals.

    Smell test indicates a stench of epic proportions, try to justify this all you wish, no business school on this continent would classify the entire operation as anything remotely approaching a best practice.

  • 62 BMCQ // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:41 am

    E. Johnson – 58

    There are many definitions in reference to the modern day term for “Snowflake”.

    Here is one piece with a broad analysis.

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/nov/28/snowflake-insult-disdain-young-people

  • 63 Hawgwash // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:58 am

    BMCQ @ 56;
    “Kinder Morgan has been Pumping and Exporting Oil for over 60 Years and the only incident was caused by a Back Hoe Operator that must have spent his Lunch time tanking up at the Admiral Hotel.”

    Grossly in accurate about KM incidents and borderline actionable on the hoe op.

    Sorry it was in the first 1/4 of your piece or I would have missed those two gems.

  • 64 Gene The Bean // Aug 14, 2017 at 11:37 am

    #59 – it is not just oil and gas.

    The BC LIEberals have not only promoted but ensconced “corporate welfare” in BC. All the conservatives love it though as they can grind their heels into the throats of working people, the disabled and disadvantaged and the poor.

    Multiple mines now pay literally a few pennies for electricity.

    The Northwest Transmission Line was a billion dollar ratepayer funded payoff to BC Liberal party donors.

    Corporate tax rates at an all time low. Corporate incentives, tariffs and giveaways at an all time high.

    BC is literally giving our natural resources away and the return is 1/5 of what it was under NDP governments in the 1990′s.

    You need not look far to see the classic shell game of Corporatism that has been at play.

    The morally bankrupt conservatives feed the troglodyte base with empty and easy to understand words, get elected, then rape and pillage at will.

    History will not be kind to the selfish right. Karma is going to take a big toll on them.

    You are right about the Saudis too. They are investing heavily into Japanese nano-technology that will significantly change the costs and paybacks of renewables like solar.

    Meanwhile the rabid right flail and sputter about a few hundred ‘oil jobs’, never looking past the tips of their own noses. I often wonder if conservatives even have the ability to look forward. All I ever here from them is that they want it “like it used to be” ….. I guess it is just easier that way, no thinking or self reflection required.

  • 65 Island Lookout // Aug 14, 2017 at 11:49 am

    #16 RISaak

    You’re exactly right about private sector outfits going broke, as your example states, and the sometimes terrible consequences.

    But like it or not goverments don’t HAVE to act that way.

    That’s because they can steamroller over all kinds of “rules” of business all in the name of the “public good.”

    Canada’s infrastructure history, aside from Site C, is riddled with much governmental interference:

    1) early canals dug in eastern Ontario for shipping in the 1830s;

    2) the War of 1812;

    3) construction of various miliary forts in the Great Lakes Basin to protect a nascent Canadian colony from American takeovers;

    4) addditional canal construction in that same lakes basin (including the Welland Canal and St. Lawrence Seaway);

    5) the Canadian Pacific Railway;

    6) the Canadian National Railway, a really stinky business affair which cost Canadians a TON of their money;

    7) Alaska Highway and Canol oil pipeline in the North (World War 2, AND WW1 and 2 BTW);

    8) Fraser Canyon and Roger’s Pass Highways and the rest of that Transcanada road system all publicly financed at the senior governments levels;

    9) All major power dam construction in BC;

    10) Expo 86;

    10) The Coquihalla Highway;

    And on she goes.

    Today our major federal government expenditures are needed for “going into endless debt” infrastructure so that the Millennials and various assorted Snowflakes, who’ll re-elect Trudeau in 2019, can glide through life oblivious to ANY kind of reality. The little darlings.

    But back to the private sector. It would be nice, #61, if government could keep a clean set of books and go overboard for wars and the like ONLY.

    Balanced books are good.

  • 66 e.a.f. // Aug 14, 2017 at 12:01 pm

    good morning BMCQ, no I didn’t mean if the government kept the money that I would be in favour of the pipeline. You brought up Norway and so that was my response. My point is we simply seem to urinate away the money the government may or may not make, unlike Norway who saves it all. Norway also seems to have better controls on things in their own country. Their fish farms have much more stringent rules in Norway and are kept to compared to what their companies do abroad.

    when a country/province/state keeps their profits from resources, they have money should anything go sideways, such as an environmental disaster. It makes taking the plunge a tad easier. I’m not totally against the pipeline if it can be built better, stronger, etc. My big concern IS the rate at which tankers will go through our waters. There will be no coming back from a big spill. Now if those tankers were to be reduced in number say to 12 per month, I might be more accepting of the whole thing. I’d also want Canadian crews on those ships and having to meet Canadian standards for those ships.

    I’m not opposed to everything, I want assurances things don’t destroy the environment and I’m more interested in what will happen in the future with our environment. what we destroy today might not be there for those of tomorrow, you know like your grandchildren or great grandchildren. Keeping the land for farming at Site C makes much more sense to me than putting it under water to the tune of $9 billion and counting.

    If it came to a vote I’d probably not ever vote for Site C., on the pipeline, given enough protection regarding the pipeline and a reduction of tankers in our harbour, I might vote yes to that. Oh and no government subsidies for any of it to any of the corporations and Alberta pays rent to B.C. for the crossing of our provincial lands for the pipeline. It doesn’t have to be huge, but it does have to be something.

    I’m with Brian on the $15K. Some might even use the money to open a small business, go back to school and improve their education, do renos on their homes thus creating a few more jobs, or put it in the bank for their retirement. So give me the $15K and lets forget about the dam. if people are so worried about jobs, then give the workers at Site C the lose in wages and cancel the thing. It will be cheaper and who knows what the workers would do with the money. Some of them might even be at home with their families. Might be an interesting experiment. before Harvey types in off topic, you’d be surprised at what giving money, without strings, to people can do, just research the town of Daphne.

  • 67 BMCQ // Aug 14, 2017 at 4:44 pm

    And I Quote.

    “Meanwhile the Rabid Right flail and sputter about a few hundred Oil Jobs never looking beyond the tips of their own noses”.

    Is everyone that is in favour of Oil Jobs a Member of the “Rabid Right”? Really?

    A Gross Generalization if there ever was one.

    No room for individual freedom of thought or opinion?

    It must be a very sad, bitter, and lonely World!

  • 68 BMCQ // Aug 14, 2017 at 4:58 pm

    e.a.f. – 66

    I get your point on the money, and I get your concern for the Environment, I believe we all want a safe Environment regardless of what the project might be.

    Again and no one is touching this.

    Norway a Social Democratic Government are able to Harvest, Oil, Gas, the rest of it and Pipe, Ship, Oil, LNG, etc. with the support of their Population without any problem whatsoever.

    Again, what is so different about the Norwegians?

    Do YOU or any of your friends that are against ALL of that have ANY comment regarding those FACTS?

    I would like to hear from just one person on this.

    Frankly I am not really surprised that there are so many Anti Pipeline Types here that are literally hiding under their Desks on this one.

    How about YOU “Gene the Bean” any Comment from the “Rabid Left” on the Norway Question?

  • 69 r // Aug 14, 2017 at 5:32 pm

    https://energeticcity.ca/2017/08/site-c-contractor-petrowest-to-file-for-receivership/

  • 70 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 14, 2017 at 8:11 pm

    BMCQ, I know a Norwegian-Canadian, who is visiting his homeland right now.

    I’ll see if he wants to chime in — or perhaps feed me some on-the-ground intel.

    One thing that would make things easier over there is the lack of unsettled land claims with indigenous first nations.

  • 71 BMCQ // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:54 pm

    Barry – 70

    I am quite sure most of us hold opinions that are somewhat influenced by our Political leanings bu yes it would be interesting to hear from a person from Norway.

    The reason I bring up Norway is because it is really a perfect example of a Socialist Country with many similar ideals to Canada with a Liberal Population that actually manage to Harvest, Process,Transport, and Export Natural Resources by the same methods so many in Canada are 100% opposed to.

    As I have mentioned many times over we in Canada are influenced by a very small percentage of Activists that have manipulated the MSM, Liberal Politicians, First Nations, and those other (edited..h.o) affiliated with the First Nations “Guilt Lobby”.

    That well organized Lobby has managed to literally hijack much of the Canadian Population and convince them that First Nations Leadership and First Nations People are Stewards of Canadian Wilderness and our Natural Resources and Wildlife. In fact it is nothing but a charade and it will not be long before Canadians suffer greatly and we will find ourselves unable to accomplish anything without appeasing and being held to ransom from those same groups that really care about nothing more than feeding their own greed.

    I know you well enough to know that you are actually asking yourself the same questions I am asking about, just how can Norway with their ideological bent accomplish so easily what we in Canada may never?

    In Canada we for the most part have a great addiction to Government Prigrams and Services, if we do not soon somehow find a way to harvest, process, and distribute/ship to market our Natural Resources our Population will suffer greatly.

    Keep in mind that within two generations it appears that those very same Fossil Fuels may not play such an important part in the Fueling of various Industries.

    In the meantime we need to take advantage of what Natural Resources we have get them to Market and diversify our Economy so we can provide ALL,of the Government Programs and
    Services we hold so dear.

    Let us prosper and grow by taking advantage of our Natural Resources. We should ALL of US realize that there are literally hundreds of Nations that would give anything to have the Natural Resources that we in Canada to to create a society like Canada with our standard of living with the Services and Programs we have and take for granted.

    Really Barry what I am talking about is nothing more than being practical and using common sense, regardless of ones politics,

    Just simply ask a Norwegian.

  • 72 BMCQ // Aug 14, 2017 at 10:59 pm

    My apologies I should have added Environmental Hypocrites to my third paragraph.

  • 73 Ron // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:25 am

    Re: BMCQ // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:34 pm
    Here’s Kindr Morgan-Trans Mountain Pipeline record of spills…..Clearly a KM apologist.
    If you lived in North Burnaby anywhere near that spill you would CLEARLY be against another line.
    https://twnsacredtrust.ca/concerns/spill-record/

  • 74 Ron // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:56 am

    Re: BMCQ // Aug 13, 2017 at 9:34 pm #56
    A little better explanation of how much Trans Mountain is spilling oil (40,000 barrels in AB-BC alone):
    http://www.vancouverobserver.com/news/kinder-morgans-historic-oil-spills-are-double-kalamazoo-disaster-ndp-mp
    Their line spilled 20,000 barrels in Kalamazoo alone!

  • 75 BMCQ // Aug 15, 2017 at 11:50 am

    Ron – 73

    I must wear this and stand corrected for the most part but I actually was referring to the Burnaby Tank Plant where things have been much better.

    I did not intend to imply there had not been problems elsewhere.

    Not being an apologist at all, I want the People of B.C. to have Jobs and sometimes that includes Harvesting, Processing, Transporting and Exporting Natural Resources.

    Now that I have done that can you then explain to me why WE in B.C. and Canada cannot accomplish what they can in Norway?

    As to North Burnaby?

    I hate to disappoint you but I have some very nice Commercial and Industrial Real Estate in North Burnaby.

  • 76 e.a.f. // Aug 15, 2017 at 12:09 pm

    Perhaps the citizens of Norway are more in favour of resource extraction because they have fewer “accidents”. whenever I have seen anything on their resource exactraction, fish farming, etc. it all seems to be done very carefully. That railway of theirs is amazing and doesn’t seem to have the accidents we keep having here with trains.

    Perhaps everyone in Norway is just a tad more careful in Norway.

    Their fish farming operations are more stringent than they are here on the B.C. coast. Man who worked on fish farms in both countries, eventually went back to Norway to work on the fish farms there. I would suggest some fish farm corporations here are more interested in their bottom line than safety and yes some times their head quarters are in Norway. My impression is Norway likes to keep Norway clean and safe. What they do elsewhere, well that isn’t their problem. I do believe they still have a whaling fleet. This year in March they were planning to kill 999 whales.

    BMCQ, if people think everything is going to be done with great care and have very few if any accidents in their resource sector they’d be much more willing to go for it.

  • 77 SB // Aug 15, 2017 at 1:20 pm

    Site c is a project that we do not seem to require and replacing those jobs can be done in several ways our infrastructure is in need of major improvements province wide highways and roads water and waste systems all need huge upgrades a well designed long-term transportation plan for lower mainland needs to be implemented it would be able to address transit commercial needs as improve traffic flows.
    The Vancouver island region is still using Higgway systems on south half that are so overwhelmed it is a joke the Malahat was designed for 1/10the traffic on it today .
    Add improvements to schools Hospitals and there is no lack of possible jobs and if its tax money it should go into projects that improve our province .
    Water and waste water systems are a huge cost and also a huge value in returns old systems lose large amounts treatment facilities do not have capabilities to handle todays amounts when rain occurs water itself needs conservation measures and new systems that do not leak will pay back directly .
    Highways are the main link in delivering goods faster more efficient and safer routes lower cost of doing business and reduce insurance claims as well the NDP have many options ones that can aid future growth and improve long term problems that will eventually cost taxpayers far more .
    As for oil gas mining logging im all for those just not in irresponsible ways or at taxpayers expense i also would like a national strategy to process oil in Canada that would help Alberta to have domestic sources for Canadas future needs same as raw logs id agree to sending whole timbers in bulk or cants as known in the industry if we even cut once that gives our pulp mills local supply for hog and chips secondary jobs as well .
    Governments need to encourage those type of actions give tax breaks for creating jobs tax huge corporate cash holding force it to be worth while investing in Canadian jobs and that requires a huge shift and a longer veiw than most politicians can grasp they see 4 years ahead and need to be planning for 40.

    (Response: The projects you mention will take YEARS to plan and get approvals, fight all the challenges and blackmail attempts (maybe a decade now to do all that in BC!) before construction ever begins. I also notice that you have interestingly come up only with projects that require BILLIONS in spending …but produce NO REVENUES, NO ROYALTIES, NO TAXES to pay for all those expanded and new services NDP/Green supporters keep calling for in BC. h.o)

  • 78 BMCQ // Aug 15, 2017 at 9:22 pm

    e.a.f. – 76

    I do not have enough to know whether People Care more in Norway, perhaps Regs are tighter and better monitored with penalties for infractions or the attitude of the population in general is more supportive of one another and understanding that without the Harvesting and getting to Market of Natural Resources their way of life and standard of living could be threatened and in fact reduced drastically.

    Frankly I do not think the people of Norway are as self centered or as needy as many Canadians.

    I believe Norwegians are more “One for All for One” than Canadians.

    No mater what the reasons it is obvious that Norway and Norwegians are obviously able take advantage of Natural Resources and make it work so if benefits the Country and it’s People and WE in Canada should be envious of Norwegians and disgusted with ourselves.

    SB talks about Infrastructure and Programs and as Harvey points out without a Healthy Vibrant Economy creating Jobs, Income and Sales Taxes, bringing in Royalties, and the rest we cannot generate Funds to provide Infrastructure or Government Programs like Health, Education, Pensions, and the rest.

    We have no time to waste, the choice is ours.

  • 79 Hawgwash // Aug 16, 2017 at 8:37 am

    Ron; 73/74.
    Glad you linked those articles.
    I was expecting and ready for a push back to my post at 63, but it didn’t come.

    I was locked and loaded with the same link on spills.

    KM has a sorry history of bad corporate citizenship, especially when it comes to cleanup. But with a $1,000 fine for the Burnaby fiasco, why bother being nice neighbours?

    My point with the earlier post was inaccurate reportage by a poster on spills and of course knew the response would be; ‘not what I meant/intended to say.”

    My other point that was not challenged was the irresponsible slagging of an equipment operator and suggested intoxication on the job. When one sees that approach, one wonders about misplaced blame to his own employees.

    3 companies, not one worker were held to account and; “The report found the pipeline was not accurately represented on the contractor’s design drawings, which were based on a 1957 drawing.”

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/3-companies-plead-guilty-to-burnaby-oil-spill-1.1005862

  • 80 r // Aug 16, 2017 at 11:59 am

    How about ,neglected?,forest fire prevention.?

    https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2017/08/15/Blame-BC-Liberals-for-Forest-Fires/

  • 81 BMCQ // Aug 16, 2017 at 2:00 pm

    RON – 73

    I have absolutely no problem admitting a mistake and unlike many I have done so on a few ocassions.

    I have also changed my mind and evolved on certain issues because of sound arguments pointed out by others and I am very happy to do that.

    As to my comment about the Heavy Equipment Operator it was obviously a joke.

    It was well documented that the Contractor for whatever reason had an outdated or inaccurate Drawing and they dug in the wrong place.

    As to the Employees in my Company?

    Out of 25 Unionized Employees in YVR 15 of them are Long Term with more than 15 years of devoted service.

    Then there are 5 with over 10 years service in the Company.

    Each of those most senior 20 Employees own their OWN House or Condo, mostly clear title.

    I am on record here stating that they are some of the best People I have ever known.

    Hawgwash

    I missed your Post or I would have addressed your points directly yesterday.

    You should know me better by now, I have never hesitated to admit I am wrong if I am mistaken.

  • 82 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 16, 2017 at 6:04 pm

    BMCQ, here’s from my Nor/Can friend:

    “Revenue. 70-90% oil/gas royalties paid to the govt.

    “And red tape. Years, if not decades worth.

    “And it is also offshore. All of it. Spills, if they happen, are in the middle of the ocean. No pristine marine life or nature to protect from pipelines or tankers navigating treacherous waterways in Norway.”

  • 83 BMCQ // Aug 17, 2017 at 6:13 am

    Barry – 82

    Thanks!

    Hopefully participants on this Blog see your Post.

    Yes I am well aware as my attachments show up the page that the Revenue to Government is substantial BUT regardless NORWAY CAN and DOES Harvest Oil, Gas, and the rest and get it ALL to Market.

    Red Tape is fine and more than likely necessary but there is a BIG difference between Regulatory Measures and OBSTRUCTIONIST Activism by Special Interest Groups!!

    Have not looked back as to when the Industry started but once again Norway CAN and DOES!!

    Obviously Norway is an Exporting Country and they DO have Ships Exporting LNG etc..

    Yes, Norway HAS PIPELINES!

    Norway obviously manage to use Pipelines extensively and it works for them. See attached.

    Also notice that they have a fairly sizeable Refining capability.

    A B.C. News Paper man by the name of Black was advocating for this for B.C./Alberta.

    I have re attached an overview of Norway Energy Profile which speaks to all of this.

    Notice how much of Norway’s Electricity is generated by Hydro, very interesting.

    WE should also keep in mind that Norway only has a population of about 5 Million.

    I am honestly puzzled why Canadian Politicians DO NOT put the Norway story forward for discussion.

    PM Justin is in way over his Head but I am quite sure his Handlers have convinced him that Canada and it’s Provinces require the Income from Natural Resources.

    If Canada does not take advantage of the Sale and Export of Natural Resources Canadians cannot expect Governments at any Level to provide Government Programs and other Services Canadians literally Demand and expect!

    Contrary to popular believe we are several decades away from the so-called New Technology that will meet all of our Energy requirements.

    Then Canadians will need to find an answer to another question.

    If/When New Renewable Technology becomes the norm just what exactly does Canada then do to generated Employment for it’s Citizens?

    Canadians cannot ALL work for Government or Microsoft in City Centres.

    Great Job and thank you again for the commentary and info Barry, it is people like you that are willing to take part in the argument, discussion, and debate that makes a Blog like this work.

    What could be wrong with an exchange of ideas?

    I for one have learned a lot from the over 80 Posts on this one.

    Again, “One should NEVER be Bound by a Straightjacket of Ideology”!!

    it also appear that Norway have taken the initiative to Deport undesirable Migrants, I hope it is not too late and I hope they accomplish what they want.

    Hopefully PM Justin and his Minions look to Norway for more than just their way of Exporting of Natural Resources.

    WE in Canada do not have a large problem as yet but…………..

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/748976/Norway-migrant-crackdown-record-numbers-deported-2016

  • 84 BMCQ // Aug 17, 2017 at 6:38 am

    Oh and by the way when we are talking about Future so-called Renewable Technologies we will be required power our Country and Provinces?

    Please consider that if/when a high percentage of Vehicles will be powered by Electricity that many Countries will still be generating Electricity by Burning Coal. They may not have the advantage of Hydro Electric Power.

    I honestly do not believe Wind Mills will do it all for us.

    Has the NDP Government released any information on just HOW we in B.C. will generate and provide the Electricity to Power Up and Charge Batteries of our Thousands of Electric Battery Powered Vehicles?

    Then of course there is the additional 4 Million Residents that move to B.C. over the next 20 years, might they just add to the demand for Electricity?

    Do YOU Still believe that we do not require the Power from a Site “C” that also provides Thousands of High Paying Jobs during the Construction period along with the operational staff required later?

  • 85 SB // Aug 17, 2017 at 2:06 pm

    Harvey in rwspomse to yours on my post i will agrer some projects will need time and will cost billions major highway and mass transit projects yes for sure but a change and long term planning need to begin .
    As i have experience in infrastructure work i know most cities towns and rural areas have wish lists of needed improvements many already studied and engineered and awaiting funding and many that will be nowhere near billions this also is likely in schools all around the province as most districts have some needed projects and upgrades again nothing in the billions start there plan for future needs if its 2 billion for a piece of highway today what will it be in 15 yrs ?

  • 86 G. Barry Stewart // Aug 18, 2017 at 8:34 am

    BMCQ at 83. You forgot to share the link about Norwegian pipelines.

    My Nor/Can friend includes this site. Scroll to the bottom to see that all of the pipe is underwater (shocking, to me.)

    http://www.theodora.com/pipelines/norway_sweden_denmark_pipelines.html

    He also says, (Start of quote):

    “Norway was very much a Have-NOT country until the oil (the gas) boom in the north sea.

    By and large there are no native groups to consult with (except the Sami up north).

    Extraction did not take off until the mid to late 1960s and a law came in place to ensure offshore deposit remained government property.

    Oil and gas industries are regulated by a dedicated federal ministry. Statoil (state-owned) has maintained monopoly on the sale (export) of oil and gas since 2001.

    Red tape example: “Troll” was discovered in 1979; production commencing in 1990, despite findings that it could have been operational by 1984.

    Lastly, among these disjointed statements, oil and gas offshore remains a federal responsibility. This bypasses various provinces, and cuts red tape. That little piece of paper from 1982 makes this inconceivable in Canada.”

    End of quote.

    So, the big kicker is that Norway’s federal government has the hammer on resource extraction. They like it, they get it.

  • 87 BMCQ // Aug 18, 2017 at 4:38 pm

    Barry – 86

    I did Post one piece /attachment up at my Post at 52 I will now post the one I missed here. It is somewhat similar.

    http://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/exports-of-oil-and-gas/

    I have been participating on this Blog since July 2014 and I have mentioned Norway and their Oil and Gas, Off Shore Oil Platforms, Pipelines Fish Farming, Mining, Transport of ALL of those Resources several times and each and every time I ask the same question, WHY NOT in B.C.?

    Our Governments at the Federal Level and our Opposition NDP in B.C. have been Obstructionist and Derelict in their Duty to the Citizens and Tax Payers of Canada by not Leading and creating an atmosphere that makes it easier to take our Natural Resources to market.

    Someone has managed to convince PM Justin that without the Harvesting and Export of those same Natural Resources we in Canada will soon see our Programs fail and our Population suffer.

    Thank God someone has shown him the way!

    As you say in reference to Norway, “They like it, they get it”!!

    WE cannot allow Obstructionist First Nations, Poverty Pimps, Lying Enviro Hypocrites, so many in the MSM, too many in the Educational Field continue to manipulate and outright Lie to a fairly gullible and the ill informed “Great Unwashed”

    I believe it was someone in the Hitler Regimewho theorizedthat “Once you Convince the Children You Have Won, because You then have the next Generation”!

    Unfortunately that is about where we are now in B.C. and Canada.

    Young People and the rest of the General Public must be educated and become familiar with all of the Pros and Cons on this Topic and we need to do it ASAP, before it is too late.

    https://www.platts.com/latest-news/natural-gas/london/norwegian-gas-pipeline-exports-to-europe-in-april-26433260

    http://www.lngworldnews.com/statoil-ships-two-hammerfest-lng-cargoes/

    ARE Canadians Inferior?

    Can we not do what Norwegians have accomplished?

    I cannot quote the Regulation but from what I understand the First Nations must be consulted in good fairth.

    I also understand that the Federal Government when it can show that Meaningful Consultation took place the Federal Government can Rule for what is best for Canada overall everything considered.

    We in Canada continually get Bogged Down in Red Tape and Race Based Political Correctness and it is costing the Canadian Tax Payer $ Billions of Dollars each and every year.

    It is time for the First Nations to decide if they want to take advantage of the Programs afforded them or if they want to be Obstructionist.

    It is also long past the time that the Federal Government continues to Fund the Legal Challenges of First nations.

    Let First Nations Fund their own Legal Challenges and then we might get somewhere.

    the Federal Government,the Provinces, and the Hard Working Canadian Tax Payer are being taken advantage of and it is time to STOP!

    Thank you for having an open mind on this, it speaks well of your sense of fair play and character.

  • 88 e.a.f. // Aug 20, 2017 at 4:27 pm

    #86, there was a documentary not that long ago on T.V. which dealt with Norway and how it grew from a have not country to a have. Some of the focus was on how they made changes also to their social system. What their prorities were. It made for a healthier more educated population.

    From the little I know about Norway it would seem their federal government has far greater control over natural resources than Canada.. We are a much larger country with provinces, who like to muck about with things also. Then there is the First Nations treaties Canada deals with, which I am not sure Norway has to deal with. What I have seen is that the First Nations people in the Scanda countries seem to be much better off and have healtier communities, which seem to be given greater support by their federal governments. I don’t think the Sammi people ever went through what Canada’s First nations people went through.

    If we had the Norweign attitude/laws/system, etc. in place here in Canada, we might be able to “sell” the extraction of natural resources to the general population. I’m not against natural resource extraction, its just I’m old and have seen what has gone wrong, and continues to go wrong, like Mount Polley, the railway accidents, etc.

    if one of us were more interested to see why Norway does better than we do, then perhaps its time one of us got on a plane and investigated and reported back. Harvey, how about next summer you go there for vacation and take BMCQ.

    Why don’t I go? I’d have to leave the island not to mention get on a plane and that would be too much like work unless I can travel like I did when I worked, business class.

    We could check Norweign newspapers regarding natural resource extraction and railway accidents. they most likely have far fewer than B.C./Canada and we ought to find out why. I do know their, off topic here Harvey, drunk driving laws are extreme compared to ours. When a drunk driver is found guilty those who were in the car with them are also fined. Its just not the drunk driver but the passengers who the law deals with and much more harshly than here. its sort of no stopping, off to jail. speeding tickets are priced according to your income. That is how a billionaire in Norway got a $10K speeding ticket. Here, its $150 so who cares, if they have money. My sense would be in Norway they don’t care about how much money you have, no excuses.

  • 89 BMCQ // Aug 20, 2017 at 9:09 pm

    e.a.f. – 88

    I am doing my best to sympathize with you on the First Nations concerns and the rest but let me ask you this.

    Are you, others like you, and First Nations taking the obstructionist stance against the Harvesting of Natural Resources because of misdeeds and wrongs committed 200, 100, 70, or say 30 years ago by the Governments of the day?

    Why in the World would First Nations or People like you chose to harm, hamper, and impede the ability of the Federal or Provincial /Gov of any Brand to success lay Harvest and take to Market our Natural Resources?

    Especially when those very same NR are for the most part our ONLY way to generate Tax Dollars, Fees, Licenses, Royalties, Good Paying Jobs, and help support Communities in the North and Heartland of Canada?

    Interestingly enough it is in the Northern< Coastal, and Heartland Geographical areas Coast to Coast where most of our First Nations People actually reside.

    In fact the Harvesting of Natural Resources like Oil, Gas, Mining, Logging, Fishing and the rest are ALL big Employers of First Nations People.

    Hell, you would think First Nations would be supportive of those Jobs, other benefits, and spin offs generated in those Communities.

    I do not recall that there are many Programmers or Coders in those areas just mentioned.

    Perhaps it is time for your PM Justin to hold some informative Town Halls including Media Satellite Educational Seminars from Norway to illustrate to First Nations Leadership just what Norway has accomplished for the People of that Country.

    No need for Harvey or even PM Justin to travel with a Group to Norway, why waste Fuel on Canada Air Force One transporting a Group or Career Politicians, their entorouge, and other Hangers On to Norway at several $ Millions cost to the Tax Payer we can do it with High Tech Satellite Seminar.

    Again, If Norway can do it then why can't we in Canada accomplish the same?

    It is really irrelevant what took place all of those years ago, it is long past time for Canadians of all backgrounds to look at the accomplishments of Norway, learn from them, and take it to the next level in our own Country.

    I am not interested in going to Norway myself but I would be very happy to take Harvey with me when I travel to Greece and Israel for 5 days in October.

    He has earned a Trip like that just for putting up with people like us on his Blog!

  • 90 e.a.f. // Aug 21, 2017 at 12:48 pm

    BMCQ, THE “vacation” suggestion was in jest.

    I understand at a logical level what you are saying. I don’t disagree at some level and then at another level when I think of what happened all those years ago and see the effects today, its still not over.

    I do know forestry provided a lot of jobs for First Nations, but I’m not aware of how many were employed in the other resource sectors. I do know some bands have started fish farms.

    this is it until Sept. BMCQ have a nice break from all of this, enjoy and you and Harvey could have a few more posts to write and comment on if you were in Greece and Israel, take care