Shhh! Don’t Tell the Bloc … OUR Block is Bigger than Theirs!

Quebeckers were very clear with their votes Monday: many of them don’t see Canada as ONE country from coast to coast to coast, represented by Canada’s political parties with differing ideologies … but only Quebec as a regional Bloc that can demand, push, pressure and yes, even blackmail the federal government to get things THEIR way … or else!

Well, if that’s the way Quebeckers want to play the game … the WEST has news for them: OUR BLOCK is bigger than their Bloc!

In Alberta alone, the Conservatives hold 33 seats … all but one seat in the entire province … more seats than the Bloc Quebecois!

In Saskatchewan, another 14 Conservative seats; in BC, another 17 Conservative seats; and, in Manitoba another 7 Conservative seats!

Now, THAT is 71 Conservative seats … ALL out West …. SOME VOTING BLOCK … if that’s the way Quebeckers wants the federal government to work!!!

C’est domage! Too bad!

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau would be well advised … and warned … that if he intends to placate and pander to buy off the BLOC in Quebec to prop up his government, he’ll face a backlash from even a large BLOCK out West that will not take such preferential treatment and provocation lightly.

And the long-term consequences for Trudeau/Liberals … and Canada’s nation-wide political system … will be much more serious than the pressure-politics plans of the Bloc.

That’s because everyone knows the votes for the Bloc in Quebec had ZERO to do with separatism or sovereignty: it was a push for even more regional power … beyond Quebec’s already-existing preferential treatment … nothing more.

How ironic!

Many Canadians already see Quebec as the spoiled child of Confederation, pulling way above its FAIR weight in terms of federal power, Cabinet seats, contract spending, billions in equalization grants and even extreme tolerance for its “pure laine”-based racism and discriminatory laws and practices.

And the West is fed up!

Western Canadians feel: Underpowered in Cabinet; under-appointed in top bureaucratic positions; under-involved in policy development; under-listened to in federal decision-making; under protected in trade deals (softwood lumber!!!); and under-represented on federal boards, committees, agencies, federal power structures.

There is a danger now facing Canada … but it is NOT about “Wexit” or any silly talk about the West leaving Canada: that will NOT happen.

But it IS about the risk of Canada fragmenting into “block”-based regions, each pushing parochial agendas, rather than a cohesive but compassionate country … looking out for one another.

Quebec has started this … again.

But this time, Westerners are not in such a nice, magnanimous mood to soothe, spoil and bribe.

Trudeau Wednesday acknowledged there are serious issues simmering among Westerners.

“I will be reaching out specifically to westerners to hear from them … to talk about how we can make sure that the concerns, the very real concerns of Albertans, are being addressed and reflected by this government,” Trudeau said.

Talk is cheap.

If the government gives in and panders to Quebec’s isolationists and separatists … represented by the Bloc … it will send the WRONG message to the rest of the country about what it will take from now on to succeed in Canada.

And Trudeau/Liberals should remember: OUR BLOCK is BIGGER than THEIR Bloc.

Harv Oberfeld

PS. For those interested, I was interviewed on this topic on the following Podcast: https://www.howestreet.com/2019/10/28/will-trudeau-listen-to-a-conservative-west/

(Reminder: Comments and discussions are welcome … edited if off topic or for length. And to receive FREE First Alerts to all new postings on this BC -based Blog, just follow @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No SPAM, just First Alerts of new topics.)

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44 Responses to Shhh! Don’t Tell the Bloc … OUR Block is Bigger than Theirs!

  1. 13 says:

    Harvey, a qualified two thumbs up in agreement. Where I disagree a little bit is your use of Western Canada . BCers might be pissed at Quebec and Ottawa but will do nothing whatsoever other than complain. Alberta and Saskatchewan both have political leaders in place that will stir the pot. Feed the flames. Use the rhetoric. Their leadership should use every tool in the tool box to get better deals on everything from Ottawa. If they succeed perhaps the weak kneed Horgan /Weaver gov might come under a bit of pressure from the remnants of our almost defunct resource sector. We are climate warriors.

    (Response: Even without BC, the other three Western provinces have 71 Conservative seats: imagine the possibilities if they too …like the Bloc … unite and start pushing or pushing back as a BLOCK … demanding concessions to support legislation introduced by Trudeau’s minority government but not supported by the left. h.o)

  2. Gene The Bean says:

    Ya the Con block is bigger than the Que Bloc – doesn’t matter.

    The Con block will never vote for Trudeau and will probably never vote for anything other than an angry old white man yelling about immigration and how we spend too much on social programs.

    The Que Bloc has and will at sometime again, vote Liberal.

    It is the Cons that need a long look in the mirror on how THEY fit in. Quebec will never entirely ‘fit in’ but they can be used politically. The Cons cant, not now anyways.

    They are just a bunch of old grumpy guys yelling at kids to get off their grass while the world passes them by.

    (Response: We’re not talking about Conservative supporters/voters: we’re referring to Western Conservative MPs. Trudeau knows that on some legislation the NDP/Greens/Bloc won’t like, he will NEED the Conservatives to help get bills passed. And if he panders to Quebec too much, too often … those Western MPs could … and should … play the same game of “What’s in it for OUR provinces?” h.o)

  3. D. M. Johnston says:

    The West is the spoiled child of confederation, really. Quebec is the master of political manipulation, the west just screams and bangs their collective heads and achieves nothing

    Western premiers, after WAC Bennett lacked vision and still do lack vision, other than enriching political friends and insiders. Alberta as and still is the hotbed of American style Evangelical fascism and Saskatchewan and Manitoba, merely hangers on.

    What really makes me mad is that the federal election is just over and up went the screams of western alienation and separation.

    BC got well over a billion dollars (40% of $4.6 billion) to build the Broadway subway on a route with a fraction of the ridership to justify such an expenditure and the the feds allowed the flip-flop from LRT to SkyTrain in Surrey.

    Alberta also got serious transit monies from the feds for both Edmonton and Calagary.

    There are a mass of programs with federal money allocated all through western Canada, but all is ignored for 10 second sound bites from rabid right wingers; the practitioners of fake news and alternative facts.

    Those who practice political posturing for personal political gain, play a dangerous game because they could ignite a fire with disastrous results.

    Remember, there will be only one winner if the west splits from Canada and that is the USA.

    (Response: You’ll notice I did not list spending as a major Western complaint: Trudeau/Liberals have addressed the most egregious mistreatment of the West previously ..under both Liberal and Conservative governments. But in terms of power, BC and the West have truly been short-changed at the top in Ottawa … and Quebec has been spoiled …to put it mildly … in terms of senior Cabinet posts, committee and board appointments etc. Anyone who spends any time in Ottawa, working with the federal government, could EASILY conclude Quebeckers/Francophones represent 50% of the population and the power …not the 25% they actually account for .. and when ANY one province gets MORE than its fair share of the pie, that requires others get LESS than a fair portion. That’s what the Bloc/Quebeckers now want to exploit even more … and it’s time for the West to take a stand and say NON! I agree separatism is NOT the answer…but playing power politics could be …IF Quebec now successfully gets away with it. h.o)

  4. 13 says:

    Harvey, when the Liberals finally need support for their (our ) pipeline they will need either the grumpy old white guy party or the bloc. Perhaps the grumpy old white guy party can say we will support the pipeline you bought Justin but only if you build the Northern Gateway and another to the Atlantic and another to Texas. So Justin you have our support to enhance the pipeline you bought but pick at least one of the other three or NO DEAL Remember even though everyone says they dont want another election and even though everyone is ready to write Andrew Scheer off the Grumpy Old White Guy Party is well funded.

  5. BMCQ says:

    That is a very fair, thoughtful, and balanced analysis of the situation at hand .

    As I stated yesterday Alberta, Sask, and Manitoba for that matter are not going anywhere without B.C. the Province with the Pacific Ocean attached to it .

    Why is Media so all of a sudden obsessed with the WEXIT BS ? Why are they not getting serious and providing the Tax Payer with substantive information and discussion on the real subjects that concern Canadians of ALL Political Brands .

    It is quite obvious by the Vote Count and the support that Greens, NDP, Conservatives, and Liberals right across the Country had right across the country in the many Provinces and Regions we have work to do .

    It does appear to me that the greens and the NDP are in their “Final Days” and there may be big changes for both even before the next Election . As stated several times I actually felt the NDP were going to get less than 15% of the Vote and perhaps 12 seats which would then force them to merge with the Liberals and the new Liberal Democratic Party of Canada . Just watch over the next few years, it is coming .

    The Greens are done, put a Fork in them . PM Justin has taken all of the wind out of the Green Sails and he will be instrumental into finishing them off within a year or two . The Liberals will soon be “All Things to All People” .

    I asked this question Monday Morning, Just what is it under PM Justins watch as uh PM that caused the Bloc to grow and prosper so much so quickly ? Under Harper they were basically an after thought, has Media even discussed that as yet ?

    Harvey makes a very good analysis regarding the Bloc and the Conservatives in the two regions discussed, it will b e interesting how the “Real Politics” works out on this .

    For many years now I have often wondered if Canada as a Nation is “Past it’s Best Before Date” .

    We have very distinct Regions, Languages, Cultures, and in some ways even different values, this Experiment of Canada may have seen its best days .

    Having said that I recently spent a few days in Halifax and the surrounding area as I often do and the Maritimes Folks are some of the best people I have ever been blessed to get to know, my relationship with many of them goes back decades and it is a privilege to know them whether they be Green, NDP, Liberal, Conservative, or even Rural Folk, they are all wonderful .

    I do not understand why somewhere seem to think that you are not worthy unless you vote the same as they do, thank God Real Canadians do not care which Political Party you support . Thank God the Vast Majority on this Blog do not think that way either .

    Yes Harvey, the Bloc is smaller but again, can this re-elected PM with his Track Record of allowing the Bloc to once again Prosper after having been defeated manage to do what is needed to not only contain the Bloc but to once again make them Irrelevant in Canadian Politics ?

    Perhaps you should send PM Justin Stephen Harpers contact information .

    How could anyone on this Blog believe that the Conservatives would not support the Liberals, The Con Bloc will certainly Vote and Support the PM and his Liberal Party and very soon, the Conservatives will support the Liberal Party on any and all Pipeline Projects, it is elementary, why would that be so hard to see ? Why is it some people are simply Blinded by their own Hate and Bitterness, it is very sad .

    I am also going to guess that the Conservatives will also support the Liberals on other proposals as well, just as the Greens and the NDP will if it benefits their Supporters or their Constituents’ .

  6. Harry Lawson says:

    Harvey,

    What a family our confederation is.

    We have wealthy and not so wealthy , large and small .

    We have provinces just like children see how Quebec has threatened to run away and get rewarded with a bag of goodies. So a couple of the other children see their cousins in confederation getting a bigger goodie bag so they mimic the behaviour of cousin Quebec. Several will stomp there feet, hold their breath ,threaten to run away. So the family matriarch Ottawa takes notice tries to placate with soothing words and a few hugs maybe even a treat . Meanwhile cousin Quebec wants more .the more the matriarch tries to placate the worst it gets.

    Our confederation is just like a family . In many ways we are dysfunctional.

    Let’s get some group therapy and get back to the basics of why we became a family in the first place. We all lose in a family separation.

    (Response: Make no mistake about it: the Bloc …and its allies in the Coalition Avenir Quebec provincial government still dream of separatism … even though the vast majority of those who voted for them this time do NOT support that. So the Bloc and the CAQ will try to blackmail the federal government, will try to create crises with the federal government and will seek to separate Quebec out from other provinces in every way they can. Trudeau/Libs will fail the country miserably if they cave and reward the Bloc and those who voted for them and their divide and conquer agenda. The West is watching …and is fed up with such pandering …so if Trudeau/Libs don’t address the issue strongly and start saying NOLN to Quebec, the consequences for Canada could escalate into something much uglier than we have now. h.o)

  7. hawgwash says:

    Harvey, I just went back to Aug. 4 when you started your run on election related blogs; there have been 20. All have been home runs, both thought provoking and entertaining. Today’s is right up there with the best.

    By the numbers, so many different collaboratives are possible and it will be interesting to see who holds hands in any given situation.

    With a minority, I believe an SNC inquiry is the anvil over Wile E Coyote’s head and wonder, where will the Bloc stand? Will they use it as leverage; we’ll support JT’s anti-inquiry, if we get more of everything? Will they just go along with the Trudeau on the BS of it’s about jobs? Or will they assist in nailing his hide to the wall?

    Leverage is my guess.

    (Response: Thanks. There will be no SNC inquiry. Not unless and until the Tories ever take over. h.o)

  8. D. M. Johnston says:

    In answer, the West, especially BC have elected very weak MP’s; oh they are adept at political maneuvering, but they lack any sort of vision for the future.

    This our fault, the electorate, for letting party machines getting their people in power.

    It has been my observation over the past 3 decades that our elected officials are getting (to be polite) less intelligent and more susceptible to manipulations by the party elite.

    Now JWR and to a lesser extent Philpott greatly upset party elites and were not afraid of the end result. The lack of caucus support certainly shows who were the toadies.

    I do think the “election fixers” at the civic, provincial and federal levels want the most stupid of candidate, someone easily manipulated and if elected will comes party solidarity.

    If one really wants to blame someone for Western alienation, look in the mirror, because in the end, we voted for them and asked nothing of them to address the problem.

    (Response: At some point, NDP supporters in BC are going to wake up and realize how much pandering their party …and their BC MPs have done to pander to Quebec at the cost of BC’s rights and interests in desperate largely unsuccessful attempts to win Quebec votes. The NDP would NEVER stay silent if BC or any other province passed language restrictions and xenophobic racist laws that now permeate Quebec. And did it help? Mais non! It’s time he NDP really starting speaking up for its human rights supposed principles …in QUEBEC! h.o)

  9. e.a.f. says:

    When I saw the headline the coffee went over the key board. Great one liner. I’d love to see you tell that to the Premier of Quebec. ACTUALLY I’d pay good money to see Ms. Freeland tell them that.

    Quebec thinks they don’t “have enough”, but in my opinion, enough is enough. Things need to be divided equitably and equitably doesn’t always mean equally.

    In the mid 70s and into the early 80s a lot of B.C. wasn’t in great shape. No one outside of B.C. seemed to care. Its when food banks first started on Vancouver Island because the lumber industry was on its ass. In small towns around the province, resources were not in demand and there was high unemployment. At the time the federal government didn’t count those who had been unemployed for over a year as “unemployed”. I can recall the stats of the time had some towns at 15% unemployment, but when I questioned collegues, they said it was closer to 30% and in the early 80s, Kelowna’s biggest payroll were the UIC cheques.

    Quebec can’t have it all ways. They want to be a “distinct” society, but they want way more in the right to set their own agenda, like immigration, language, etc. Yes, they are one of the two founding ethnic groups, but really, that was a long time ago. Its important that we remain bi lingual, in my opinion, and we retain all our regional cultures, but nothing says the culture of NFLD is less important than the Quebec culture or the Indigenous cultures are less important. If I had to vote I’d say the Indigenous cultures ought to take priority. They were here first.

    Quebec, the Bloc has 32 seats. If the Conservatives are really smart and are able to put their ego in their pockets, they could make it clear also to Quebec its time for a change. Its doubtful it will happen, but the Conservatives by now ought to understand Quebec will give them the bums rush, just like they did the Liberals at one time and the NDP. Out of a parliament of 338 seats the B.Q. all from Quebec have 32. However, Quebec has 78 seats, so even in Quebec they are not a majority. The B.Q. needs to get a grip and all politicians need to understand at the rate things are going in Quebec, their population may decrease and then have fewer seats in Parliament.

    B.C. has 42 seats, which is more than the Bloc has, but that is distributed over several parties and JWR.

    The Maritimes has 32 seats spread over several parties.

    The 3 Prairie provinces have 62 seats. Now most of that is Conservative, but that isn’t always the case. The North has 3 seats.

    Although Quebec is a distinct society, they aren’t any better than the other areas of this country and its time the politicians grew a set and started treating each province equitably and that may result in some areas receiving more because they are poor or disadvantaged.

    If Quebec complains it needs more, they might want to check as to why they shot themselves in the foot and are causing people to leave, along with their talent and money and there isn’t a rush to move/immigrate there.. Quebec might want to give some thought to the regional number of seats because if it becomes a regional fight they may find some are willing to cross party lines to get what they need for their province, area. The Praires have 62 seats. Add in B.C. and we have 104. That is a chunk more than all of Quebec. If B..C. didn’t join the Praires, they may find the Northern seats are feeling a tad left out and that gives them a total of 65 seats. Add in 7 from NFLD/LAB. your have 73 seats and that is more than Quebec. Now it is doubtful politicians would cross party lines, but who knows what the future holds if regionalism becomes a “thing”.

    Harvey I’m still laughing about the head line. Then I got into the Halloween candy…….

    (Response: Looks to me like Quebec voters are saying “Trick or treat” to Canada! As if the BILLIONS the West and the rest give them in Equalization grants … on top of all the other federal spending and federal powers they enjoy …at a level British Columbians can only dream of …isn’t enough! Time for Ottawa to start invoking what I would call the “Preference Principle” of politics: government spending in Quebec should go primarily to ridings that VOTED for the ruling party … just like Ottawa does so often out West or in Ontario/the Maritimes! In other words, the Libs should not REWARD Bloc ridings with federal spending. Quebeckers have a long history of understanding how this works provincially: time to do it federally as well. If there’s one thing Quebeckers know well, it’s exactly how greasing the palm works! h.o)

  10. e.a.f. says:

    Don’t agree with the comment regarding the Conservatives will never vote with Trudeau. If there is voting regarding a pipeline or something to do with oil/gas/resources, they may be forced to vote with the Liberals, especially if the Greens, NDP, B.Q. say NO. Not voting for something such as oil/gas will give the Liberals something to clobber the Conservatives over the head with, to the end of oil/gas. The Conservatives aren’t that stupid and the Premiers of Alberta and Sask, would make it very, very clear where they stand and what they’d do to the federal conservatives as would their financial supporters in those provinces. Even Scheer doesn’t want to have to say, well you’re not going to get a nice new pipelines to the west coast because I don’t like Trudeau and I want to be P.M. We don’t have recall, federally, but if the Conservatives voted against something which would benefit the oil/gas industry, you’d see large protests in Alberta and Sask. and give Jason the keys to the position he wants, leader of the Conservatives, federally.

  11. Gilbert says:

    Alberta can ask the federal government to redraft Bill C-69. It’s a disaster.

  12. nonconfidencevote says:

    @#13
    Re Public sector.
    ” Please accept my apology (now I sound like Trudeau) if I have guessed wrong.
    &&&&&&&

    Apology accepted.
    I have NEVER EVER worked for the govt in any way, shape, or form…. unless you consider
    Unemployment Insurance ( U.I. as opposed to the ridiculously named , Orwellian “E.I.”).
    No.
    Mr. Ms. Szher. “13”
    I have worked years as a paid employee in the private sector, then as a “salary man” in the private sector, then, I was given the opportunity to “buy in” to a small company and Voila!
    As a part owner/manager I may, just may, be able to retire before I die.
    So i hope its not too much to ask without being accused of braggadocio that……. in 20 or so years( when my meticulously maintained vehicle will be snapped up by a “collector”)…….. I may “upgrade” to an electric (hopefully self driving because I hate Van traffic) car…..
    I have scrimped and saved over the years and have reached the point where my privately (100% my money) funded investment portfolio allows me to maybe dream some day that I….can have an electric car………

  13. nonconfidencevote says:

    Now.
    Back to the subject at hand.
    Separatism.

    I think the problem lies with the lack of leadership.
    Trudeau? Scheer? Are you kidding me?
    Both used strong arm tactics and back room deals to get where they are.
    Dreadful.
    This election (like so many others all over the democratic world) end up in stalemates or minorities because of the dearth of “leadership”.
    England, Germany, Italy, …all minorities….because voters are DISGUSTED with the status quo .
    We arent voting FOR a candidate….we vote AGAINST candidates or the least “bad” candidate.
    My God.
    Our political choices are venal, self serving, professional windbags who dont care about anything other than their Resume (sorry, CV for all you Millennials out there…I’m a dreaded Boomer) for when they can “retire” and become a “Vice President” of a corporation (earning $100k+ per year) that they handed massive govt contracts to.

    Enough.

    Political lobbying and its obscene money is destroying democracy.
    If SNC Lavalin is the tip of the iceberg……
    God only knows what happens behind closed doors.

    No more private donations or public union money for elections.
    No more public “servants” immediately jumping INTO the same private sector company for 100k+ per year that they were supposed to oversee with regulatory oversite when in govt.
    Build jails specifically for public servants (politicians or govt employees) caught stealing, accepting bribes, bid peddling, etc etc etc. is long overdue.

    It may sound harsh but the alternative is what?
    Voters getting less and less involved?
    We become more and more corrupt like Mexico with 29,000 murders last year and climbing.
    People trust no one?

    Not the Canada I want.

    Leadership or more specifically LACK of leadership is our greatest challenge moving forward.

    Perhaps “None of the Above” on the next Federal election ballot and we’ll let the real people who control everything run the country…..Revenue Canada.

    (Response: I can actually FEEL your frustration … and you are not alone. Canada’s “leaders” are not leading: they are self-advancing …or at least trying to … and sacrificing REAL principles, integrity and the country’s best interests in their attempt to convince the public to reward them with power, prestige and profit. How many time did I (we?) watch every one of them saying things we just knew they did not really believe … but felt they had to say it to win votes? That’s why I admire people who democratically speak out and legitimately stand up for their principles … even if I disagree with their points of view. h.o.)

  14. BMCQ says:

    NonCon

    I am quite sure that most clear thinkers of any Party would agree with much of what you say other than the Prison part, as we all know Prisons and prison time should be limited to those that contravene Laws such as Lawn Sprinkling Regulations of which Greta will now be in charge of . Do you remember that old film “Carrie “, remind you of anything ?

    I have said this before but a quick fix for the frustration you share with most of us regardless of our Political Brand is Term Limits for elected officials at all three levels of government . Term Limits are an easy quick fix that could be promoted, debated, and implemented in a very short time and the debate would be transparent, politicians would be forced to be accountable for their stance on this most important change in legislation .

    IMHO Term Limits would actually encourage elected officials to take action and get much needed legislation passed much quicker, especially in their last term as they would not be concerned about Re election, that in itself should provide the Tax Payer with more accountably, less bureaucracy, and better value for the Tax Dollar .

    The Term Limit can be open to debate but let’s say two or three 4 year Terms, that would work .

    Within that the Elected Politician would receive say up to 50% more salary than what they get today but they would fund their own pensions and once retired when their terms are up they receive nothing in the way of Tax Payer Funded Pensions, Severance, Health Plan, or anything else, they are literally cut lose .

    The increased salary would encourage better people to seek office, it would ensure new blood with fresh ideas and the regular turn over would quite quickly mean the end of what was once called “The Old Boys and Girls Network “ . Who would be against that ?

    This plan and legislation would save $Billions right across Canada, it would contribute to quicker, better, more transparent, and more efficient legislation and it would eliminate a lot of politics which in itself creates gridlock and inefficient government .

    Legislated Term Limits removes much of the concerns you and Harvey point out and citizens right across the country regardless of their politics would be rewarded with better government, again, what could be wrong with that ?

  15. BMCQ says:

    OH, and BTW Noncon, seeing as we are all still here .

    Let’s encourage Mr. Singh, with the support of the Conservative Party of Canada to immediately follow up on his pledge to give Canadians something they deserve very very much .

    A Triple “A” Senate

    “ABOLISH, ABOLISH, ABOLISH”

    Again, this would be a most transparent Debate and ALL Canadian Political Parties would need to go On Record Publicly with their Vote on this most important Legislation .

    If memory serves (did not fact check) the senate3 costs up to $ 150 K – $ 200 K each and every year, not sure if that includes Mimosa, Caviar, and Canapes but I am quite sure there are many other Perks the Politicians receive that the “Great Unwashed” never even hear of . Thank God Linda Reid and a few others were weeded out before they were appointed to the Upper Chamber .

    (Edited… going way off topic…. which is the ELECTION result)

  16. Gene The Bean says:

    Noncon – feel your pain but it IS the system. It will probably never change so we must try and function within it and not let the right take us further into the rabbit hole because their doctrine only works in an environment of hate and fear. The worse it is, the better for the Cons.

    One way to start would be to elect less moneyed, connected, old white guys. Elect more people like JWR. More people that actually worked in a job as opposed to having their lives handed to them by mummy and daddy. Elect younger people. Elect people who don’t just parrot the company line and have the ability to stand up and speak out.

    You just have to look at the Repugnantan party in Trumpistan to see what you get without any diversity.

    As the boomers age out and more young people see how the system really works, they will become involved and as the world changes, so will the political makeup.

    Stopping corporate and union donations would just send us back to Fantasy Gardens and cash in brown paper bags but it would be a start and I’d support that.

    Leadership works both ways. You need someone to lead and someone to follow. Quebec and AlbertaBama cant be led because they refuse to follow.

  17. e.a.f. says:

    Was just doing my morning read over at CBC News: to day in 1995, 96.3% of the Cree voted to remain in Canada, if Quebec voted to leave. They argued, that if the Quebecers were a ‘distinct’ society and voted to leave, the Crees, as a distinct society could vote to stay.

    I remember that and just laughed when I read it, because if the B.Q. want to go back to their threats of they want to leave, they can, but they won’t be taking much of a land base. First Nations, I do believe own a fair chunk of the Quebec Territory. I think this comes under our land base is bigger than your land base, not to mention they might have to pass through a Cree nation to get to all sorts of places in their new “country”.

    (Response: No need to worry about that. The vote in Quebec had NOTHING to do with sovereignty or separatism … not even amongst MOST of those who voted for the Bloc. It was a power play … a pressure play … kind of like forming a gang to intimidate others in the neighbourhood. And the worst thing for Trudeau government to do would be to GIVE in to their extortion, which will just send the message that it works! Better for Canada if Trudeau/government work with others …in the rest of Canada and also in non-Bloc areas of Quebec … to get rebuff the gang. h.o)

  18. Terry M says:

    BMCQ Re:term limits I fully agree with you and they should include every elected member, from the party leader to the last guy on the back benchers. Look at the US where some of the senators and representatives have served for many years and set up mini fiefdoms and weild unbelievable power.

  19. nonconfidencevote says:

    @ BMCQ

    I’m actually liking the idea of term limits.
    Be far easier to make into Law than trying to ban Lobbyists.
    Count me in!
    As for the “Triple A” Senate …I agree 100%
    A Rubber Stamp retirement club for political hacks….Mike Duffy comes to mind.

    @ Gene the Bean
    I understand where your coming from but I really dont think younger voters are all that much different than greedy Boomers that get into politics to enrich themselves.
    Greed is greed and generations be damned for it.
    Millennials are just as avaricious as we are.

    I vote for term limits

  20. Gilbert says:

    Why did the Bloc do so well in this election? They didn’t win so many seats when Stephen Harper was in power. I believe there are primarily two reasons. One is that the people of Quebec don’t want the federal government to allow lots of migrants through their borders and intervene in their affairs such as with Bill 21. Of course I don’t believe Justin Trudeau will ever interfere with Bill 21. In my opinion, it was just rhetoric to appease those who don’t like the law.

    The second is that he is viewed as a very weak prime minister who will give Quebec lots of concessions in exchange for their vote. Though they didn’t give Stephen Harper so much support, they never believed that voting for the Bloc would give them lots of bargaining power with Stephen Harper.

    There you have it. The Bloc did well in Quebec because the people there don’t want the government to interfere in their affairs, and they believe that by supporting the Bloc, the prime minister will capitulate and give them what they want.

    (Response: I pretty well agree with you on the sentiments against migrants and trying to wrest concessions etc out of Trudeau …but not on Bill 21. I have a feeling that if the Quebec Courts don’t strike it down, Trudeau will fight in the Supreme Court. h.o)

  21. 13 says:

    Noncon , I agree with your response to gene re millennials (Ill include gen X ) not much difference in wants. Gene loves to beat his drum about the boomers aging out and the youngsters saving the planet even being able to stop climate change that was not human caused. No doubt some is but this planets has gone through ice ages and changes before coal was ever set on fire. BUT THATS NOT the point I want to make. We have raised 3 sons. Ive watched with a bit of curiosity their political evolution. When I was young as I have pointed out time and time again I supported the NDP Federal and Provincial. By the time I was 30 I voted either Liberal or Conservative By 40 I was conservative.
    My 3 sons are aged 35/40/45. All three have good jobs.Two of the three are or were active in their unions. Im almost certain that they have evolved from left wing to either center or right of center politically. So in my humble opinion Gene is banging a drum but nobody can hear it. I have a few friends that have children in their 40s. Also successful and definitely conservative. So I guess my point is as much as gene can hardly wait for the boomers to all croak a new wave of boomers is on the horizon.

  22. nonconfidencevote says:

    @ Gibert
    “Why did the Bloc do so well in this election?”
    +++++

    Well lets not ignore the unmentioned 800lb gorilla in the room.
    I dont think Quebecer’s have embraced visible ethnic minorities as Leaders.
    A sikh in a turban isnt exactly “pure laine” in the eyes of a lot of voters in la Belle Province.
    Lets not forget Jacques Parizeau’s referendum night speech where he blamed the “ethnic vote” for the failure of the separatist vote.
    And, lets face it, the last federal election, before Jag took the helm, when the NDP vacuumed up a ton of seats in Quebec was a protest vote against the Harper Cons and the Libs.
    The Bloc came crawling back into the sunlight to promise the sun and the moon to another generation of “believers”.
    Unfortunately , in a minority govt, they will get lots of election goodies handed to them

    (Response: No doubt some Bloc voters … especially in the rural and more remote areas where they did so well… have a high degree of xenophobia that denied Singh/NDP equal opportunity to be considered. But they could have voted Lib/Tory or Green … if colour/race/religion was a big concern. I believe the PRIME motivation of Bloc voters was much more simple: greed, self interest and power politics … something that, if successful, will send a very WRONG message to other Quebeckers and to Canadians in the rest of Canada about the “new” reality of how things work. The Bloc ridings must pay a price ..or Canada will. h.o)

  23. Gene The Bean says:

    13 – interesting. My story is opposite, started out Con became progressive.

    I think the reason most seniors are Cons is that they buy into the ‘fear and hate’ that the Cons use because they selfishly want to preserve all they have.

    Noncon – I have more hope for the younger generation than you. They were raised in a much more forgiving time when people with a different skin colour weren’t completely vilified (except maybe at home) and LBGTQ people were starting to be understood. Just that will make them much more compassionate towards others. Also they realize that boomers took the easy road, screwed up politics, turned economies into printing presses of money for millionaires and corporations, turned their backs on working people, didn’t do enough to stem homelessness and addiction and played village idiot when it came to mans affect on climate change. They will be angry. Those responsible will be made to pay.

  24. BMCQ says:

    Actually virtually all of the advancement of Ethnics/Minorities, LGBTQ, Womens Rights,
    Criminal Justice Reforms, Voting Rights, and much more actually changed, improved, evolved, and became entrenched under the Governments we have had over the past 20 years or so whether it be the EU, the soon to be Free UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and many other Nations excluding so many in the Middle East other than Israel, much of Asia, and of course Africa took place under Baby Boomer Governments and Baby Boomer Voters , facts are facts .

    I am not saying that things could not be better or in fact improved but regardless of the motivation things are better mow than before . Where would you rather be LGBTQ, the Middle East or in Canada, the U.S. or the EU ?

    We in Canda fnow have a Minority Government but as has been discussed on this Bflog and as H.O. has pointed out the Conservative Bloc can benefit all Canadians by twisting the arms of the “Slow to Do Anything” Liberals by pushing the Pipeline question forward and as mentioned Singh and the NDP can align with the Conservatives to Abolish the Senate and enact Term Limit Legislation .

    I do not see an early end to this Minority Government and if the NDP and Conservatives do their part they can each force worthwhile meaningful Legislation through Parliament that works for all Canadians regardless of their Region or Political Brand .

    I believe there are opportunities and if the Media do their job by pushing for Transparency the ultimate winner will be Canadians and the Tax Payer .

    We do however need to concentrate on the most important issues, we cannot afford tfo have the Government Bogged down in meaningless posturing, symbolism, tokenism, and PC SJW Mumbo Jumbo that the Liberals are so good at .

    Let’s see if Singh and Scheer are as capable as they would like us to think .

    Attached is an incredibly well thought out and written Conrad Black piece on the Election Results, we should take note . Personally I always agree with the opinions offered by the Great Unwashed as well .

    https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/conrad-black-trudeaus-hollow-victory-leaves-the-real-issues-facing-this-country-unresolved?video_autoplay=true

    Bjorn Lomborg is a fairly hard line Enviro but he is what so many are not, he is practical and he is not a Enviro Zealot and he is not fooled by a very odd, dishonest, and hypocritical, 15 year old Con Artist from his homeland of Sweden .

    https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/climate-change-fear-wrong-policies-by-bjorn-lomborg-2019-08

    https://www.innovativewealth.com/inflation-monitor/what-products-made-from-petroleum-outside-of-gasoline/

    We in Canada may actually have a Golden Opportunity to make a fractured Minority Government work for us than what was originally thought . If the Opposition Parties can highlight their vision for Canada and then cause that discussion to be very transparent and if Media cooperate, the Citizens/Residents/Tax Payers can choose their own priorities and decide which they want to support .

    There could be in fact great opportunity in this Minority Government that only a few days ago I did not think existed .

    I am not overly optimistic but I see hope and I see potential for real concrete results if the NDP and Conservatives work for the Population in general .

    It may take cooperation, trade offs, and some infighting but both those Parties have an opportunity to make Canada work for everyone but the BQ although the good people of Quebec will still get more than their share, all it takes is a little give and take .

    Bottom line for me ? I believe Singh and Scheer can and should work together and Canadians from Coast to coast can be the beneficiaries .

    Sure, I may be too optimistic but …………

  25. e.a.f. says:

    Terry M. the reason some of these long term American politicians manage to hold on to power so long is they gerrymander, big time. The States determine what the “ridings” are for the state and national elections. We don’t have that system. In Austin, Texas, which is fairly progressive, they don’t have progressive representatives because the ridings were configured so no progressive could be elected as a member to the House of Representatives, in Washington. the joke, as I gather is, the riding is a mile wide and 100 miles long. some American states have been told by the courts to change their gerrymandered ridings. Now from time to time, we may have questionable riding boundaries, but mainly they are fairly decent. Americans are also big on voter suppression, which again is done at the state level. In Alabama, they decided people needed photo ID issued by the state to vote. Then they closed approx. 40 offices around the state where people could obtain the I.D., leaving only two offices open. After a huge out cry, they implemented a mobile unit to issue ID. but when one blogger for Alabama had checked only a few had ever been issued from the mobile unit. This was done after the Shelby County decision was rendered by the American Supreme Court. So the American system of limiting terms for the President doesn’t extend to the rest of their House of Representatives, and with states controlling so much, it extends into their federal politics, a problem we don’t have, really in Canada, beyond the odd case.

    Bringing any type of American style politics into Canada, in my opinion would not be a good thing. We have only to look at how they ended up. I’d suggest we in Canada have a much more vibrant democracy and part of that is the money is controlled in politics here. In the U.S.A. just about any one can grow up to be President and we’ve seen how that turned out. all you really need is enough money. Canadian control over the amount of money spent in elections keeps it some what at a level playing field. the other thing which has put the American system out of wack is the lobbying industry. The hospital industry in the U.S.A. spends approx. $4 billion a year in lobbying. That creates a problem, Lobbyists.

    In my opinion the biggest/most powerful bloc in the U.S.A. are the ultra rich, billionaires and the lobbyists. Money buys power and when you consider 250 families in the U.S.A. own 50% of the wealth in the country, nothing about time limits is going to solve any of that problem. the all powerful will simply hire other politicians to work around the time limit ban.

    Time limits in my opinion excludes good politicians and that would not be good for our country. Whether the politician is left or right or center, there are some very good people who have been politicians in this country and some of those stayed in office for a long time and I was oh so good with that. Two of those were defeated in the last election, Lisa Raitt and Ralph Goodale. I liked Ms. Raitt’s work and her ability to do her job. I suspect so did the Liberals because they “drafted” a star candidate to unseat her. . I Am doubtful he will be as good an M.P. as Ms. Raitt was. I’ve never considered it smart to knock off other parties better politicians just to up your own count because at some time or another the country may need a voice of reason from another party.

    I got into the Halloween candy again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it makes a nice breakfast with coffee……..

  26. 13 says:

    Gene you have never said anything more correct or anything that I find as comforting than your statement that we are opposites

  27. BMCQ says:

    To not demand proper Identification and a Voter Registration Card as we just did in the Canadian Federal Election is simply Insane .

    To suggest otherwise is nothing less than Parroting unsupportable Leftist Talking Points based on nothing short of absurd .

    Voter Suppression ? Should anyone that walks into a Voting Station be allowed to Cast a Ballot just because ?

    Then you would actually have Russian, Chinese, or any other Brand of Election Interference .

    Simply regurgitating Talking Points from an old Anti Establishment Berkeley Handbook of Jerry Rubin is Juvenile, how could any civilized society not demand proper identification before any individual was able to cast a Ballot in any Democracy ?

    As to what happened to the U.S. ?

    Are you paying attention each and every day of the week millions of people of many ethnic groups, religions, skin Colour and any number of genders are risking their lives to enter the U.S. and many of them are by passing Canada to get there .

    Just once I would like you to base your comments on facts rather than Hollow Leftist Talking Points that are not based on common sense and reality .

    Let me put it this way, what if Bus Loads of Conservatives showed up to vote in the Riding of Elizabeth May and they had No Passports, No ID, No Voter Card, No Drivers License, and No Clean Underwear, would you allow them to Vote ?

    Voter Suppression ?

    The fact is most Ultra Wealthy Individuals in Canada and the U.S. are in fact LIBERAL Left of Centre, Anti Conservative, Anti Harper, Anti Scheer, and Anti Trump, please familiarize yourself with the facts .

    Bill Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Ballmer, Brin, Bloomberg, Buffet, and hundreds more are all Liberals, Bloomberg may even enter the U.S. Presidential Race within months, he hates Republicans and Trump .

    Same thing for Wealthy, Educated, Elite Political Influencers in Canada, most tend to be Anti Conservative Liberals, the facts are right there in front of you, deny them .

    The same holds true for The EU, it is undeniable .

    It is exactly the same people in Canada that have for some reason been able to convince the Canadian Electorate and Media most of the time that the Liberals are the ‘Natural Ruling Party” of Canada .

    Talk about Electoral Manipulation and so called Voter Suppression !!

    To much Vaping ?

    The thing I find most interesting in all of this is how do the Liberals convince Hard Working Contributing Tax Paying Canadians that Liberaks should lead this country ?

    Voter Suppression perhaps?

  28. 13 says:

    BMCQ,Its to bad that so many entrenched ideologues that frequent this and other blogs cant bring themselves to read Conrad Blacks opinion pieces. His piece is non partisan and I dont think he has any real allegiance to either of the two Federal parties.
    If nobody chooses to read his stuff lets hope that at the very least one of Justins keepers reads and explains the article to him.

  29. DBW says:

    A couple of topics ago, I made some comment about the Conservatives not having much support outside their base. I was guessing, but turns out I was correct. Only 6% of Canadian voters have the Conservatives as their second choice. They have a strong base for sure as over half of Conservatives don’t have a second choice, but it does mean that the Conservatives need to make some major changes if they hope to form government down the road.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-its-deeper-than-andrew-scheer-the-root-of-the-conservative-partys/

    About your exact topic and I am only musing out loud here, aren’t the Conservatives already a kind of western Bloc. When the Progressive Conservatives morphed into the CPC didn’t they take on much of the Western Reform movement. Not only have they become more Conservative (losing the progressive label) but their leaders and emphasis have been from the west. While it may have worked for Harper has the rest of the country caught on and are now rejecting that approach? The question is not rhetorical; I am asking because I don’t know.

    And while I am still here, I am waffling on term limits. In our parliamentary system where the PM and cabinet are elected from the House of Commons, we would almost always have inexperienced people in those positions because by the time they got parliamentary experience they would have aged out.

    (Response: That 6% figure …if repeated in other polls as well …should give Tory strategists and marketing experts a lot to mull over. Clearly, their brand has not kept up with the public’s changing demographics and “shoppers'” interests … and it’s time for a major “rebuild”. Unless they want to go the way of Eaton’s, Zellers and Target Canada. h.o)

  30. Gene The Bean says:

    13 – agreed.

  31. BMCQ says:

    Over my life I have changed my mind completely or more or less evolved a lot on several different beliefs I once had a decade or two or more ago .

    I would like to think that those change of beliefs and positions somehow made me a better person . Some of that evolvement I achieved was solely because of exchanges with a few people that participate on this Blog, I was one might say shown the error of my ways . Harvey, LEW, NoNeck, and DBW just to name a few were able to help me change my mind and see another side to a story on a handful of occasions .

    When it comes to Political Parties simply changing their Platform just to get elected, it causes me a problem .

    Personally I believe any Party regardless of Brand should stand by their principles rather than just change those principles just simply to get elected .

    (Edited…off topic… which is Canadian politics)

    I might never support the NDP but unlike the Federal Liberals who would “Sell their SOUL to the Devil” the NDP stand by their principles . That is the difference, PM Justin would literally “Whore” himself just to hang on to power and he would LIE so he can continue to be a “States People Kind” .

    One thing for sure, I saw May and PM Justin “Whore” themselves out and I saw “HYPOCRITE” Tattooed right across their Foreheads for all to see, I DID NOT see Singh, Bernier, or Scheer get on their Knees for anyone . Surely we could give them a little credit .

    Would you rather see a Party be honest and stand behind the Planks on their Platform and their beliefs and objectives like the NDP and the Conservatives or would you rather have them like the old Jonny Lang Song, LIE to ME ?

    Scheer clearly stated that Abortion and Gender Rights as they both now stand would not be open to discussion and they were “Not On the Table” .

    Take a few minutes and think about this whole scenario, who is it that you would rather support, a Party like the Liberals or the Greens who are very malleable and will say anything to get elected even if it means lying and going back on their word (Hello PM Justin) or would you rather support the NDP or the Conservatives because WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET . Sorry DBW, no “Guess” on this one .

    I would never want a Party I support and believe in to fall under the spell of Marketing Experts, I would rather have that Party explain their principles, philosophies and Platform clearly and I would rather have them convince me that they are the best option for Canada and Canadians as a whole right across this Country .

    Then if that Party happened to evolve on an issue or two over a period of a few Election Cycles so be it but I want those changes to be for altruistic reasons, argument, discussion, debate, not a “Big Con” as we see from the Liberals, PM Justin, and the Greens .

    AS to Term Limits and inexperienced people in positions of power ?

    Could it really get any worse than PM Justin, Butts, SN Lavalin, the treatment of JWR, Philpott, Khadr, Criminal In Justice, Open Borders, Migration out of control, Tax upon Tax upon TAX, Bowing to China, Never ending Pipeline challenges, and so many more .

    No, give me the NDP or the Conservatives anytime, at least they are Honourable, how can we call the current Occupant of 24 Sussex Drive “The Right Honourable” anything ?

    Think about it just for a minute, please .

    (Response: The election is over! Yet, you still seem to be campaigning. h.o)

  32. Gene The Bean says:

    DBW makes more good points – the Cons are toast if they don’t change. Torn between I hope they don’t and I hope they do. If the party changes, will their morally bankrupt base change?

    Can a base that has pavlovian tendencies towards ethnicity, white privilege, immigration and those less fortunate “buy in” to a progressive conservative movement? A return to what conservatism used to be until it was hijacked by the wackjobs? I don’t know if I am seeing that happen. Once the cat is out of the bag, it may be too late.

    In essentially a two party system it would be nice to have both parties trying to make all Canadians lives better, not denying science and protecting Canadian interests in a rapidly changing world.

  33. Gilbert says:

    I think Andrew Scheer made the mistake of being too nice to the biased media. It would have been a great idea to remind voters that he was not only campaigning against the Liberals but also the mainstream media that received a very generous bailout package from the government.

    I read that Gerald Butts received $300,ooo in severance when he left the government. The media needs to ask if he has returned it to the taxpayer. For me that’s far more important than Andrew Scheer’s positions on social issues.

    I also want to know how much SNC-Lavalin has donated to the Liberal Party and who the shareholders are. It was reported that after the election, the value of SNC-Lavalin shares rose 14%. I’m guessing that they wouldn’t have done so well if the Conservatives had won.

    The media should also ask if this government has any plans to balance the budget. If the answer is no, the next question needs to be why not? At least Jean Chretien and Paul Martin were fiscally responsible.

  34. 13 says:

    6,155,662 Whackjobs,morally bankrupt,pavlovian,white privileged,knuckledragging,rural, poorly educated voted Conservative on Oct 21
    5,915,950 people voted liberal. By what stretch of even the most warped imagination do those bizarre claims (insults) make any sense to anyone. I realize that Ive been trolled but really ??

  35. e.a.f. says:

    Gilbert, don’t agree with the “bail out” package. how did they put it, “traditional/historic” or some such thing media, but I wouldn’t say the media in Canada is all that supportive of the federal Liberals. My take on it is the MSM is pretty much all about themselves. they move as the political wind moves. If they had done a better job of being the print media, they might not be in the position they are today. Giving them a financial subsidy while their executives got raises in about the same amount does not make me happy.

    There is nothing wrong with Butts receiving severance. Most contracts include a severance package. why would he have to pay it back? You may not like him, but a contract is a contract.

    Most major corporations listed on our stock exchanges have all types of political idiologies owning their stock. Well some don’t buy gas/oil, tabacco, armaments, etc stocks, but you’d be surprised who owns what in the way of stock in this country. If not the individual, then their pension plan, , etc. After elections all sorts of companies stock go up and down depending upon what the agenda of the political party is in that area, i.e. tech may go up, lumber go down, etc. Frequently it depends upon whether stock owners think the new government will “smile” upon the industry.

    Although the Conservatives carried on about SNC, I’m sure more than one card carrying Conservative has stock there and had some “important” Conservative had a lot of stock there, trust me, Scheer would have backed way off. Just go back and have a look at the Mulroney years and how some Conservative party members made money out of Mulroney being P.M. Stevie Cameron’s book, the Mulroney Years, goes into some lovely detail about it all. Buying office buildings was a real nice game. when governments divest themselves of Crown land, who do you thing gets to buy it? Frequently its the government of the day’s friends. Just have a look at what happened in B.C. when el gordo decided B.C.’s land had to “pay its own way”, what ever that means. No government or party is “innocent”. its called the price of doing business. About all you can do is hope the average working person or kid living below the poverty line gets something out of it. With the conservatives, we know kids living below the poverty line never did get much out of them. About the last honest Conservative P.M. we had, in my opinion, was Joe Clark.

    The first order of business of any political party is to stay in office. All else is secondary.

  36. DBW says:

    I will try to keep this on topic while I respond to BMCQ.

    In his post of Oct. 26 at 10:35 a.m. (you need to get that numbering system back Harvey), BMCQ was somewhat optimistic about the minority government, hoping that both Scheer and Singh would be able to hold Trudeau to account to gain things that each felt would help Canadians. I was impressed because I feel the same way. No matter where we sit politically, all of us have been disappointed in election results. And guess what? We have survived. Despite the insignificance of our single vote, the collective vote still shows the power of the process. We are flawed but we still muddle in the right direction despite the setbacks our political biases (mine included) may suggest.

    It would be nice to live in an alternate universe where we would know if Stanfield would have been better than Trudeau or Turner better than Mulroney or Layton better than Harper or Scheer better than Trudeau. But that isn’t possible so we just have to make do with what we have and move along until the next election.

    So I was kind of disappointed when BMCQ reverted to his usual negative talking points in his next two posts. But that’s not the only thing I want to address.

    Back in his optimistic post BMCQ made this comment about Greta Thunberg. (She is) “a very odd, dishonest, and hypocritical, 15 year old Con Artist”.

    I am not here to defend Greta Thunberg. She can do a much better job for herself. I am just surprised at the vitriol spewed at this one person. Not misinformed, but DISHONEST. Not contradictory, but HYPOCRITICAL. A CON ARTIST? And the worst of all, ODD? She is on the spectrum for crying out loud.

    But it isn’t the insults that is troubling me and to be fair, it is not just BMCQ. Kids like Malala Yousafzai (who was shot because she spoke out) or the Parkland students or Greta, get dismissed because they are too young or inexperienced or lacking sufficient knowledge or being manipulated by scheming adults.

    No wonder kids are disengaged in the political process. We should be celebrating these kids. Whether you agree or disagree with them, they are raising important issues that need to be addressed. When kids are scared we don’t attack them for being afraid, we help them conquer their fears. (BTW, that can include showing them that there is nothing to fear.)

    At 68 years old I am literally old enough to die. Don’t worry, I’m in excellent health, but still who knows. And this is my point. There has been a lot of talk about an east-west divide. And a rural-urban divide. A progressive-conservative divide.

    But what of the old-young divide. We want gender equity and more diversity but how much are we pushing for younger people to be elected. It is their future and maybe they can look longer term rather than lurching along reacting to short term problems.

    https://ipolitics.ca/2016/12/02/our-politicians-are-too-old/

  37. Gene The Bean says:

    13 – just for clarity.

    6,155,662 people voted for the Cons as you described.

    11,394,330 people voted, but NOT for the Cons. I left out the PPC.

    The country has spoken as to what kind of society it wishes to live in. If you’d like to live in that society, welcome. If you don’t, adios.

  38. BMCQ says:

    I do not care about the old young divide, I care about Canadians and Canada every single person, I have no time for anyone like Greta who spews buzz phrases using symbolism and tokenism from prepared text provided for by Parents, Politicians, Activists and or any other kind of handler .

    I also do not give a good god damn about her being on the Spectrum, she puts herself out there as an authority and admonishes Free Nations like Canada who as you are aware represent barely a rounding error in Carbon Emissions on the World scale , Politicians Corporations, and Tax Payers all the while ignoring facts .

    If someone like Greta is going to put herself out there as an authority and offer herself as the Second Coming she had better be prepared for criticism, tough questions, and scrutiny whether she is on the spectrum or not .

    When is her next adventure to China or India ?

    Please read this, it is very short and FACTUAL .

    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/08/18/doh-climate-messiah-greta-thunbergs-plastic-boat-trip-will-result-in-two-airline-flights/

    Hypocrisy at its best .

    (Edited…way off topic of Western alienation vs the Bloc .)

  39. 13 says:

    Well this is in response to another bizarre post. 6 million plus voted conservative. 11 million voted for other political parties that the author approves of and proclaims that the country has spoken . If you dont like it leave. The ramifications of 6 million people leaving Canada is hard to fathom. Total chaos probably . More of that warped imagination.

  40. 13 says:

    Gene I just did the math and to arrive at a vote count of those that can stay in Canada of 11,394,330 you must have included the 1,376,135 that voted for the BLOC QUEBECOIS. And youve got the nerve to tell me to leave LOL

  41. DBW says:

    BMCQ, I believe you missed my point. At no time did I say young people, including Greta, can’t be criticized. At no time did I say that people with some form of disability can’t be challenged on their point of view. It was your word choice. If you had disagreed with Steven Hawking on some topic and then while emphasizing all his inadequacies would you have included the word ODD.

    I merely suggested that perhaps we should be listening to some of our younger voices because it is their future and you literally wrote them off because you “do not care about a young old divide” because you “care about Canadians and Canada every single person” which literally makes no sense.

    If you write somebody off just because you think they are wrong, without trying to understand why they feel as they do or helping alleviate the fears they may hold then you don’t care about every single Canadian.

    The problem I see with this election is that nobody has a real vision of the future. Nobody has bold ideas. We come out of the election going “oh no what will we do with the Bloc? what will we do with Alberta? what will we do with pipelines? or the environment.?” I still think we are muddling along in the right direction which is a positive, but if we are to do more than that perhaps we should be asking ourselves what we want 50 years from now (when half of living Canadians will be dead) and to do that perhaps we should be enlisting some younger people of all political persuasion who will actually be alive to run for office.

    Remember, up the the page you said this, “AS to Term Limits and inexperienced people in positions of power ? Could it really get any worse than PM Justin, Butts”

    So why not so younger folk?

  42. BMCQ says:

    Brilliant response !

    (Edited… off topic.)

    I still think it is such a very sad thing that after being so irrelevant for so long the Bloc was able to make a come back in this Federal Election, as if Canada did not already have enough problems going forward we are now forced to deal with the “Spoiled Child” of the Bloc who wants everything yet offers nothing in return .

    It is rather odd to me that just when the economy and so many other things were ever improving in Quebec we are now faced with the old ways where Quebec demands so much even though they are catered to in so many ways by the Federal Government .

    Frankly I do not have any confidence in the current Federal Leadership and PM Justin, why would things with Quebec improve ? After all it is the PM Justin and his Team that managed to run the Good Ship Canada onto the Sand Bar of Quebec Independence in only one short Term of four years, what might we expect from them after another four years ?

    I really hate to think about what Canada and Canadians might be in for over those next four years .

    (Response: A spoiled child …who learns that stamping his or her feet, threatening to leave home can work …and get concessions from the parents NEVER forgets that …and can easily become a spoiled adult as well. Until someone stands up to them and says NO! The Bloc’s voters were NOT separatism-driven … just spoiled kids now trying as adults to threaten/bully Ottawa for MORE. But Trudeau and other Canadians should remember: when ONE group is given MORE than their fair share of the funding/power pie …it comes out of someone’s else’s fair share … like the West. The problem is, almost no one we send there … certainly not the NDP or Greens … will ever stand up and denounce the practice, especially when it involves Quebec. And they wonder why so many are pissed off out West??? h.o)

  43. BMCQ says:

    DBW

    I attempted to address your point about the Young Old Divide and my concerns about youngish people in general today in general but not all, but was off topic .

    In fact their could be an honest legitimate BLOC of young people today but instead they are brainwashed and led by Special Interest Groups, used as pawns and taken in by the silly symbolism and tokenism pushed by PC SJW Special Interests and their opportunity to be a real effective Bloc for good becomes nothing than a group of young hypocrites led by someone like Greta who is manipulated and used herself in the very the same way .

    In fact I believe the manipulation of Greta is abuse in itself .

    I have no concerns about young, old, or any other group protesting or becoming a BLOC but I abhor any of those groups impeding Hard Working Tax Paying Commuters to get to work and travel home, it disgusts me . Especially when that BLOC are basically Hypocrites wanting to get attention while ignoring the real facts and their own hypocrisy.

    I refer you to Harvey’s response to me where he refers to the “Spoiled Child”, that says it all and it can be used to reference almost any kind of BLOC whether it be BQ or whether it be Greta and her Carbon Using, Carbon Creating, Hypocritical, Group of Spoiled Privileged Feet Stomping Pretend Enviros, they are no different than that other BLOC of Privileged Hypocrites, the Pope, Prince Charles, poor Harry and his Hypnotist, Clooney, Di Caprio, Di Blasio, and the rest of that Elite HollywoodRoyal, Political, Ultra Liberal BLOC .

    (Edited..off topic. This blog piece is about the Bloc in Quebec …not Greta)

    I would go on here about an other BLOC ov over achieving youngish people who I could contrast with ?Greta and her Disciples but it takes a bit and Harvey may Trash . Too bad because it is good stuff . -erhaps Harvey might allow on another Topic about BLOCS .

  44. 13 says:

    BTW the one and only thing that the CBC has ever done right was to give Stuart Mclean air time. He had a great show and told hilarious stories.

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