Soleimani Killing Was Deserved, But Dumb

Qassim Soleimani was an evil man; a key leader of an evil regime.

He got what was coming to him … for no other reason than his support/complicity in the deaths, imprisonment, torture of hundreds of Iranian protestors and students in 1999 (and ever since) … as the head of the Quds/Iran’s Revolutionary Guard.

Why? Because the protestors and students DARED to demand more freedom, less oppression and better wages/living conditions.

Soleimani was also instrumental in organizing, supporting, directing Iran’s armed aggression and sponsored terrorist attacks that resulted in the bombing and killing of not just “enemy” soldiers, but THOUSANDS of civilians in Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq, Saudi Arabia … and worldwide.

He certainly deserved to die … by modern moral standards.

But nations almost never judge/act, based on morality.

Which brings US President Donald Trump’s decision to have Soleimani killed up for discussion.

I must admit: my first reaction was “Great! They got the bastard!”

But now what?

Nations in conflict have long practiced tit-for-tat actions/retaliations … diplomatically, economically, covertly, technologically, politically … and even violently through sabotage, secret agents, proxies, or even directly with military force … BUT , usually, under the unwritten rule of proximate proportional basis.

In other words, you hit/seize one of our people, ships or bases … we hit/seize one of your people, ships or bases.

And there’s the problem.

Soleimani was not the head of a stateless proxy terrorist group or paramilitary organization hiding in forests or mountain caves: he was an Iranian government official, a very high ranked Major General and that commands a quite different set of rules … or at least has until now.

Taking out Soleimani was overkill … literally!

And now, of course, it will require a substantive response from Iran.

So … what was the long-term purpose or benefit from the hit?

Virtually none … internationally.

Very likely it will lead to MORE violence, MORE targeting, MORE escalation … and, WORSE, an even MORE chaotic situation in an already chaotic part of the world.

Surely, this will destroy for years more ANY hope, idea or chance for détente or truce between Iran and the US.

And hundreds … maybe thousands more civilians will die in the region as a result of the escalating actions/reactions between the two nations and their proxies.

So what was the reason for such a HUGE hit on the Iranian foe at THIS time?

After all, the US (and its allies) could have pre-eminently taken out ANY known planned military missions from/by Iran or its proxies … without killing their leader, Soleimani, himself … and they also certainly have in the past exercised their ability to retaliate punishingly to any actual attacks.

Hitting Iran’s regime much wider, economically, militarily, technologically …where it REALLY hurts … could have even been more punishing and more effective!

I believe the deliberate targeting/assassination of Soleimani was a tactical blunder: a result of US President Donald Trump’s inexperience, arrogance, brashness and failure to surround himself, keep or listen to more experienced, sophisticated diplomatic or military strategists.

And it may also have been carried out for domestic political purposes: in the belief that many more Americans will now rally to the President’s side … deflecting attention from the impeachment process and with the real target of benefiting Trump’s re-election campaign.

Iran WILL respond … and that response, complete with casualties, will no doubt harden American resolve and, very likely, evoke more US retaliation.

With Trump, I believe, betting his Mr. Tough Guy stance will win him votes in the Fall election.

Harv Oberfeld

(Follow me @harveyoberfeld on Twitter to get First Alerts of all new postings on this blog. No spam …just alerts to new topics.)

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57 Responses to Soleimani Killing Was Deserved, But Dumb

  1. DBW says:

    100% agreement

    I will just add that in 2011/12, Trump tweeted several times that Obama would start a war with Iran to help his re-election campaign.
    Trump pulled out of the flawed but working Iran deal that was signed by the five permanent members of the Security Council plus the EU.
    Trump has made so many false and misleading statements if not outright lied that it now becomes virtually impossible to believe him on anything even something as deadly serious as this one.
    Trump has alienated so many allies that it will become even harder to co-ordinate an international plan of action to combat Iranian interference in regional conflicts.

    (Response: I saw/heard several of those clips from Trump in 2011 claiming, incorrectly, Obama would do exactly what he could be now doing … deliberate trying to start a war … for political gain. I hope not …but I would not put it past him. h.o)

  2. e.a.f. says:

    My immediate reaction was “oh shit” what has that dumb ass done now. This is going to cost us.

    Trump pulled a Putin. He wanted to act like a tough guy, which he isn’t. Reports on Daily Beast, Politico, etc. have reported Trump was bragging about something “big” was going to happen. it is further alleged he let his buddy Bebbi prior to Pelosi. this was all about ego and deflection. Not only does he need to deflect from the impeachment but 302s are now beginning released with are related to the Mueller report and a variety of other cases, such as Corsi, Stone, etc. None of it is good new for Trump. For those interested “Empty Wheel” has the most extensive reporting and anyalsis. (Marcy Wheeler, who heads the blog has testified to the Mueller inquiry).

    Trump is in trouble domestically and he hopes this has taken the attention off of him. He is also betting, if he has a war the House will drop the impeachment because the country “is at war”.

    Killing Suleimani was something akin to killing Pence, the top American military official, the Canadian deputy P.M., things like that. You don’t do that on a whim.

    This is just another e.g. of Trump’s lack of experience in foreign affairs and not having a “deep” complement of advisors. Reports abound regarding the vacancies in their Foreign Affairs Dept. Israel has on numerous occasions been in a position to murder Suleimani as have Bush 2, and Obama. They all took a pass. Not worth the blow back.

    Regardless of what it is alleged Suleimani has done, he did it on behalf of his country. A country which considers itself at war with the U.S.A. at one level or another. He was very good at his job. We may not have liked what he did. What he did may have been immoral by some standards, but he did it on behalf of his country. He wasn’t some rogue agent out there.

    If we’re going to play this game, than the Americans deserve to have had any number of their government offices murdered also. If we look at the American record since WW II it hasn’t been nice or pleasant or lawful. We have only to look at their record in Vietnam, Asia in general, incursions by the CIA into Central and south America, etc. The Americans handy work in Iran in installing the Shah. the list goes on. if we look back through history most countries aren’t beyond reproach. Lets have a good look at the record of Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Germany, the Netherlands, England, etc. They all have blood on their hands.

    If we play this tit for tat game, where does it end. In my opinion this was murder. This is not going to end well for any one. Trump’s threats to target Iranian cultural treasurers is a WAR CRIME. How special does Trump think he and his country are, or is he just that stupid. The world condemned ISIS for blowing up cultural treasurers, yet Trump thinks he’ll get a pass?

    Iran is not a stupid country. They are a determined people and government. Trump has unified the country as it has not been since the Revolution. Nice work. They will take their time. Their proxies will do the work and if Trump retaliates, he might find himself at the Court of the Hague, where the man ought to be. He is a blood thirsty murderer. We have only to look at the number of children who died in his concentration camps for being Latino/Latina. (It may be off the news but the information is there).

    The CIA has engaged in torture, the U.S.A. has done business with countries which tortured people and did it at their request in their “black ops” prisons in other parts of the world. ( the U.S.A. was using a small southern airport to “export” people to foreign prisons until they were stopped by the local churches when they became aware of it–they were kidnapping people who lived in the U.S.A.) Iran uses organized proxies. the U.S.A. uses the CIA, private contractors, and other countries. There really isn’t any difference. its just whose side is getting “pissed” on.

    If the U.S.A. decided to throw/hold another war, lets hope Trudeau, does what Chretien did and takes a pass. We don’t need to be involved in this one. I don’t expect NATO countries to rush to Trump’s aid either. He has “upset” most of those leaders and any war in the middle east will cause at least a million refugees to start towards Europe and Merkel has already taken a million.

    If the U.S.A invades Iran, the country will fight back. Of course the U.S.A. will most likely resort of nuclear weapons, which will cause a lot of pain and suffering for civilians–the children, etc.; destroy the economy in the region, and create more refugees.

    Trump is the author of his own misfortune, what ever that turns out to be. He pulled out of the nuclear deal, he imposed sanctions, while his crew were trying to lift Russian sanctions. I don’t expect Iran to go head on. they only have 84 Million citizens. Would not consider it prudent to stay in Trump resorts or hotels, be a financial supporter, or a family member, or an aquaitance. If Iran wants to get even with Trump, they might just hit what he values most, his assets, his money, etc. Trump really doesn’t care about anything else, well perhaps his gold toilet.

    I understand my views are not popular, but that is how I see all of this. As to all those evangelistic types who think trump is doing god’s work. the 10 c0mmandments are pretty clear, “thou shalt not kill”. no qualifiers

    This is not how I wanted the New Year to start………I hope we live through 2020.

    (Response: The US will NOT invade Iran: but they could bomb it. Trump has already said they have 52 targets selected. This is not good for world peace …and I say “world” because if even a limited skirmish/war erupts between the US and Iran, other countries ..like Canada … will also end up getting involved…one way or another. Too bad he didn’t consult any of them … or even Congress … before taking out Soleimani. h.o)

  3. BMCQ says:

    After the last Blog Post Topic I sort of thought this new Topic would be a swipe at POTUS Trump in one way or another . Lucky Guess, I suppose .

    No One really knows for sure whether the Killing of Soleimani, at least one Militia Leader and some of their most dangerous Murderous Terrorist Minions was the correct strategy but I believe doing absolutely nothing is/was not the way to proceed .

    Most on this Blog will not agree and that is expected but many Allies of the USA and Canada including many NATO Nations will support the action .

    Iran is a State Sponsor of Terrorism, how long do we sit back and allow them to kill literally hundreds of U.S. and Allied Troops, Millions of Innocent People that have died in the Iraq Iran War and the other Middle East Conflicts . Bombings and Missiles into Israel almost each and every day of the Year carried out by Iranian Proxies funded and controlled by Soleimani ? How many ?

    Even many that absolutely hate DJT seem to agree, see and hear what huge Trump critic and CNN Analyst Major General Spider Marks has to say to the Hate Crew at CNN regarding commentary from a Bomb Throwing Democratic senator .

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/01/03/james-spider-marks-chris-murphy-just-be-quiet-iran-newday-vpx.cnn

    Retired U.S. Colonel Ralph Peters a well known critic on CNN and hater of POTUS Trump also supports the action .

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/lt-col-ralph-peters-on-soleimani-strike-absolutely-the-right-decision

    I will not go on too long here but I have a question or two .

    Just how many of You, Liberal Politicians, Democratic Politicians in the U.S., CNN, WaPo, NYT, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, BBC, CBC, Global thought to question the Obama Administration when Seal Team 6 took out Osama Bin Laden ? How many of you ?

    Did one of You or others mentioned ask the question, “Gee what will happen now that Osama is Dead, are we all going to die, should we hide under our desks, Did “O” take us down a path to ruin by allowing the Killing of Osama” ?

    Well did you ?

    The UK, Israel, and many other Free World Nations and one hell of a lot of Iranian Canadians seem to be quite pleased that Soleimani has been obliterated .

    Those that say, “God what will weeee dooo” think about this.

    Just when were things good with Soleimani calling Air Strikes, Terrorist Events, Hezbollah, Hamas ?

    Do you really believe that Iran and it’s Proxies were not going to do anything if we let them get away with the attack on the U.S. Embassy in Iraq, shooting down of U.S. Drones, again bombing and lobbing Missiles into Israel, attacking Oil Tankers of Free World Nations. taking Hostages, and so many more including atrocities against Women, Children, LGBTQ, innocent Villagers, Minority Religion individuals ?

    I am afraid to tell you we are ALLREADY in Dangerous Times, We already are in Unchartered Waters for Gods Sake, and the Decapitation of perhaps the Most Dangerous Individual anywhere in the World might just be a good thing .

    Facts are Facts, and whether you wish to acknowledge it or not Soleimani’s actions and those of his Minions, his Militias Iran, Yemen, Syria, and more made Osama look like a Choir Boy .

    Please do not forget to explain the difference between the Obama action and the action taken by POTUS Trump .

    I hope my writing style is not too hard to follow, I am trying my best .

    BTW

    To suggest that Soleimani carried out his Despicable and Heinous Deeds on behalf of his Country leaves me Stone Cold .

    Think of so many other “Butchers” that killed and maimed in the name of their country , YIKES !!

    The list could go on forever but let’s start with the “Little Corporal” himself and then “Uncle Joe” . How is that for a start .

    (Response: You missed one of my key points: there IS a difference between taking out Osama Bin Laden … or ANY terrorist group leaders … official representatives of a recognized (even despised) government. Read my reply to Harry … where does it stop? I say take out terrorist groups and thei leaders …in their entirety; but eliminating political or military officials opens up a whole new chaotic front. Should nations just kill other nations’ leaders they find reprehensible? Notice neither Bush took him out. There are LOTS of butchers in government power … and who decides who is one … and who is not? Better to go after Iran’s actions, proxy groups, militias, infrastructure, installations, scientists etc etc … than take out …without even consulting Congress … one of Iran’s top leaders. Look at the result: is the US …or the world …safer tonight? NOT! h.o)

  4. Harry lawson says:

    Wow Harvey.

    where to start , wow if a leader had the courage to take out Hitler in the the 1920’s or 30’s would we had had the holocaust ? If Bin Laden was taken out as a preemptive strike would we have had 911? the answer is who knows

    as long as i have been alive we have had threats of world war and terrorist attacks, the reality is the terrorist have won they have changed our culture thru fear . i say challenge the bullies, take action , the fact is the first world war never ended.

    (Response: It sounds so easy ..just take out the leader. But where does that stop? I agree we should take out MORE terrorist group leaders: Al Shabab; Hezbollah; ISIS; Al Qaida. But recognized government or appointed military leaders? Should we take out Putin (many in Ukraine, Crimea, families of those on the downed Malaysia Air flight, assassinated opponents, journalists would say YES); should we take out Kim Jung Un? What about Nicholas Maduro? Saddam Hussein and Gadhafi were taken out…how did that work out? Murderous leaders are easily replaced by like minded kin/allies/etc… or chaos. It is more effective to use militarily power to take out their infrastructures, armaments, to stop/wipe out their armies, wipe out their facilitators, their ABILITY to make war or inflict horror on others… but leave the leaders available to negotiate or stop their aggression. As for Hitler… under what legal framework could/should he have been taken out BEFORE he started the war? Would have been nice after the war began if they could have got to him sooner, …and attempts were made … but easier said than done ..esp with the more limited means available at the time than now. h.o)

  5. e.a.f. says:

    Those 52 “targets” are cultural treasures. One for every American hostage the Iranians held decades ago. Bombing cultural treasurers is a WAR CRIME.

    I doubt if other countries will get involved as in sending military resources. Other countries have every thing to loose and nothing to gain. Europe has the most to loose because the refugees will head there. Other countries may become involved because their citizens are killed in the side shows, by accident, etc. I do not see any country joining trump in his murder of Muslims, Persians, Arabs, etc. NATO countries are still not happy about being taken into a war in Iraq based on incorrect information. Look how well that turned out for armament corporations and Eric Prince and his ilk. there is already enough ‘chatter’ on the various new networks, blogs, etc. about the American Border Agency holding American and Canadian citizens, of Iranian descent in custody last night for up to 10 hrs. While trump, or rather his agents are running around killing people, violating their rights, it will not improve peace even in his own country.

    As to Canada, I do not want our country in any way shape or form participating in anything to support the Americans in what is going to happen. It has been a very long time since I participated in demonstrations, but if Canada did support the U.S.A. I’d be out there demonstrating with the others. what happens to the U.S.A. now will be of their own making. They voted for Trump. they will either learn to live with it or die because of it. Just as long as my country stays out of it except to provide medical and humanitarian aid to the children, I’m happy to sit back and watch the show. all bullies have their day of reckoning. Trumps may be upon him.

    If trump tries to bomb Iran back to the stone age, there are already some military/political experts giving their opinions on Informed Comment, Politico, etc. as to what would happen. Most of it involves the deterioration of central governments, the rise of war lords, militias and abject poverty, disease, poverty, etc. People with nothing to loose will ensure we loose a lot.

    Trump thinks the Iranians will back off because he has threatened to blow up cultural treasurers. That is not going to happen. It would be to Iran’s advantage to have Trump/U.S.A. blow them up. They then have a legitimate case to take the President of the U.S.A. to the Court in the Hague and have him charged with war crimes. Now wouldn’t that be a spectacle? Former leaders of various parts of the former Yugoslavia were tried at the Court of the Hague, why not Trump if he goes ahead and commits war crimes. Pol Pots fellow travellers were eventually tried and convicted. Nazi war criminals have been tried when they’re into their 80s. There is no limitation on war crimes. If Trump bombs cultural significant treasurers, which have no strategic value, he is a war criminal and must be treated as such. Just because you’re the President of the U.S.A. it doesn’t mean you get a pass. Now Trump may believe he can shoot some one on 5th Ave. in New York and not loose a vote, but that doesn’t make it acceptable behaviour. what we have seen from Trump to date clearly is unacceptable behaviour. He lies, he cheats, he steals–allegedly. At least I can watch Steven Corbett this evening and get a laugh out of it.

  6. D. M. Johnston says:

    This assassination was a “wag the dog”, moment to get American voters away from his impeachment.

    Actually it sets a horrible precedent.

    Soleimani was, by all accounts, a very bad (some would say evil) person, but no trial, just a old Soviet style assassination opens all sorts of doors to future criminal acts, by all sorts of questionable organizations and groups.

    What is to stop the Russians or Chinese from assassinating people they deem just as bad or evil? Who made Trump judge, jury, and executioner?

    History is made up several small actions, culminating with one very large action.

    Prior to July 1914, very few people knew or cared about a small town named Sarajevo; by September 1914, the world knew.

    This action by Trump has set into motion an almost uncountable number of smaller actions, which result will be soon known.

    (Response: Exactly. You get it when you state:”What is to stop the Russians or Chinese from assassinating people they deem just as bad or evil? Who made Trump judge, jury, and executioner?” Where does it stop? Let’s hope we never get to the point where countries start targeting each others top officials as part of any non-declared-war conflict … or where their supporters say it’s okay if WE do it, but not okay if the others do it. That will never end well. h.o.)

  7. e.a.f. says:

    Over on the “Cathie from Canada” blog, she goes back to a column about an incident during the Iraq/Iranian war by journalist, Mark Stephens, who wrote a blog, “I Cringley: The Pulpit. Its interesting because Mark Stephens had gone to Iran to see what was happening. His impressions are there. He mentions he had previously covered a cholera epidemic in Bangladesh which killed 40K people. All of this is in the context of reviewing matters in the 2004 Bush war/election.

    The Americans are not up for the type of war this could turn into. Trump — my bone spurs hurt, won’t be able to understand what goes in a real war and if things get graphic on the news, which the military most likely won’t allow, the U.S.A. may have to pull out quickly. In my opinion, the reason the current middle east wars have dragged on so long is the media is no longer able to cover wars effectively. they’re “embedded’ with troops and not all get that opportunity. Having watched most of the Vietnam war on T.V. it was awful. The American military and politicians haven’t made that mistake twice. However, should the body bags start to stack up and they can’t make all the bodies look good prior to the funerals Americans will not want be able to with it.

    There is a reason people come back with PTSD from war and develop PTSD as First Responders. People who are “messed” up by bullets, accidents, etc. are not pleasant to look at. Now think of thousands of children blow to bites. How long will that go on for. Trump talks about destroying cultural treasures. What if civilians go there to “protect” them and the American bombs flow them up and then the Iranian media puts it all out there.

    As to assassinating Hitler prior to the war. who would have done it? the Americans weren’t in the war until the end. Germany rolled into countries in a few short days and it was all she wrote. No one could get close to Hitler. Prior to the invasions of other countries, no one was all that upset with Hitler. there were people within British politics who were just fine with what Hitler was doing, it was after all just Jews and Gypsies. Canada and the U.S.A. refused to take in Jews when they arrived by ship, were sent back to Germany and some died in the Camps. No, no one would have taken out Hitler when there was an opportunity to do so, even if they knew what he was up to. it was only Jews and Gypsies and some mal content communists oh and some radical priests. The rational is similar to the one the gun nuts and the NRA used to use: if every Jew had met the Gestapo at the front door with a gun there would have been no Holocaust. Obviously they had never had the Gestapo come to their front door.

    Harvey’s point is well taken, if there is to be negotiating you need some one to negotiate with.

    (Response: I think the ONLY reason the American people would support going to war with Iran would be to stop them from getting a nuclear weapon. Frankly, even I would support that: the consequences for the Middle East (ALL the countries there) and indeed the world would be catastrophic. And although Iran feels it MUST retaliate, I doubt Iran wants war …it’s already too economically weak, inferior to the US militarily … and knows it h.o)

  8. Leila Paul says:

    Morality, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Remember all the outrage over the butchering of journalist Khashoggi – one of the few who still spoke truth to power? Sound and fury, but not much else. Even when Khashpggi’s butcher, MBS, produced 4 scapegoats to be executed – who heard much of their executions?

    Soleimani’s death will not cause a BIG WAR to break out since Soleimani was not the ONLY strategist for Iran. In fact, Trump probably got the green light from many global leaders, including Khameini who may have felt Soleimani breathing down his back, waiting to take over leadership of Iran.

    Anyone interested in what’s going on in the mideast, in fact the world, should read Haaretz before the consume the pablum of the ignorant actors in the ‘game of vanities’ I consider the news media to be today. Listening to their chicken little warning the sk is falling is like responding to every call that the wolf is attacking the sheep. Those actors will muddle the thoughts.

    Following are some excerpts from a logical analysis in a Haaretz article for those who do not have a subscription:

    Soleimani Fallout: What the Price of Oil Tells Us About War in the Middle East
    by David Rosenberg, Jan 06, 2020 8:04 PM

    It’s not as if the markets always get it right about politics and war. When Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria was assassinated in June 1914, the markets’ initial response was “Franz who?” Only when Austria-Hungary declared war on Serbia a month later did investors realize that there really would be a war, and they panicked, just the way they should have to start with.

    But on the whole, the markets are a better indicator for the future than the media and the talking heads that have been on 24/7 hysteria watch since the United States assassinated Iran’s top military leader, Qassem Soleimani, on Friday….But one way to get a handle on the risk of a war is to ask how oil prices have responded so far. As of midday Monday, by which time market players had had more thanthree days to digest developments – oil prices are hardly indicating deep concern.
    Prices did spike higher on Friday but by Monday they were coming down off their peaks. Indeed, the reaction of Soleimani’s killing has been, to date, far more restrained than the response to the attack on Saudi oil facilities last September.

    THE ORACLE

    The markets are a better gauge for risk than all the experts and insiders for two reasons.
    The first is that as a collective, the markets don’t have any prejudices against Trump. That puts them in sharp contrast to most of the media and foreign policy establishment, which starts with the assumption that if Trump has done it, it has to be wrong and probably dangerous. That colors their take on things like his China trade policy, which we now know hasn’t done anything like the damage to the U.S. economy critics predicted it would.

    The second is, that in the case of oil market, its only interest is how Soleimani’s assassination will impact supply and demand for petroleum.
    No-one likes to hear the word “war,” but for the markets, not all wars are equal. The markets have become enured to the state of perpetual conflict in the Middle East. Even before Soleimani met his maker, the region was aflame with fighting in Syria, Yemen and Libya, mass protests in Iraq and Lebanon, and the U.S.-Iran standoff. More of the same is unfortunate but doesn’t fundamentally change anything.

    Could, after all, Soleimani’s killing ignite a conflict that would fundamentally change things? Here we enter the territory of uber- speculation. However, the least likely outcome is an all-out war between the U.S. and Iran.

    (Response:I agree it is not likely …at this point …that there will be a full scale war with Iran: the regime there is evil, cruel and violent .. but not likely that stupid. However I would not put it past Trump to keep a heightened state of agitation and conflict going for a few months … more for domestic reasons than any real concern about what’s going on in the Mid east. h.o)

  9. BMCQ says:

    A very good response, I find it very difficult to disagree with what you stated earlier and in your response to Harry and me .

    Having said that, and I may be mistaken, but I believe in this case there is an exception to your rule Soleimani is/was very unique . Yes others may also make exceptions in any given circumstance and that certainly can be debated .

    I simply think this is different .

    I personally would also make an exception for Kim Jong-un showed the opportunity present itself . As I would have for Hitler and even Stalin before Allies had a Common Enemy in Hitler and no doubt a few others . We would all pick our favourite Bad Guy .

    Iranian Leadership would take any opportunity to kill any Head of State or Senior Leader of any Free World Country at the earliest opportunity given the chance even if by Proxy .

    Iran and especially Soleimani did/do anything possible to attack or disrupt Economies, Commerce, Religious Practices and Freedoms, Education, Communications, Health Care, Freedom of Movement, and the General Order of ALL Free Nations and it is the responsibility for those that are willing to “Push Back” and let Countries like Iran and their Leadership know they can no longer get away with Strong Arming and Terrorizing Proud Sovereign Fred World Nations into Submission .

    It is NOW time for the U.S. the UK, the EU, NATO, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, and all other Free World Nations that believe in Equality for all including Freedom of Religion, Women’s, LBGTQ, and other Minorities Rights and push back against Aggressors like Iran, it’s Proxies and any other Nation that threatens World Freedom .

    What countries like Iran and yes even Saudi Arabia with their Wahhabism and their Hate for Free Societies and Freedom Of Movement and the Religious Oppression they Export must be challenged, met head on and stopped before it is too late . They cannot be negotiated with, have we not seen enough ?

    I am quite sure eaf is mistaken when she states she expects to be in the minority here, I believe my opinion will be in fact the most rejected on this Blog Topic but that is nothing extraordinary .

    My apologies but the Killing of Soleimani was nothing but a Very Good Start .

    I salute POTUS Trump .

    At least when Trump talks about a “Line in the Sand” the World knows they are not talking to Barack Obama .

  10. 13 says:

    I tend to agree with Harry, I can not remember the last time we could breath easy. Its hard to pick a safe place to holiday.
    BMCQ asks what is the difference Obama killing Osama vs Trump killing the Iranian terrorist. The biggest difference was Obama was a media darling and Trump has been in the crosshairs of the media since day one.
    I guess the sight of the two towers being vaporized along with 3,000 civilians has become no more than a date that was easy to remember. I dont remember the day Bin laden died and I doubt Ill remember the day the Iranian terrorist died.
    The terrorists have been active all over the globe. Another truck or machete attack.
    Perhaps push back was in order. Or another imaginary line in the sand.
    We can judge the outcome. The media have already come to their scripted conclusion. .

  11. e.a.f. says:

    Never agreed with the murder of Osama bin laden. Even if he could not be arrested, they could have tried him and rendered a verdict.

    BMCQ, you include the U.S.A. as a freedom loving country and all the res to that stuff. You obviously haven’t seen that some states are removing hundreds of thousands of voters from the rolls prior to the upcoming federal election. As to LBGTQ rights, wasn’t it Trump who didn’t want transgendered people in the military and had them removed, etc. As to equality, one of the greatest dangers women face in an military is rape by others within their armed forces. any number of American states are attempting to control women’s bodies without regard for anything–outlawing abortion. some states have only one clinic and that one is usually under threat. Then we come to the treatment of refugees in the U.S.A., they put them in concentration camps. Now I know many think the U.S.A. is a good country. It does have many good qualities but I would not put it in the same category as other western countries. health care is so poor for pregnant women in the U.S.A. they rank 38th for women surviving pregnancy and delivery. Countries such as Estonia, Slovenia, Cypress, Belarus rank in the top 10. what the U.S.A. has is a legacy and its being tarnished as the decades go by. It has a huge military but it has war criminals who are being pardoned by the current president.

    the countries you mention ought not to push back against Iran, it only helps the U.S.A. and Trump who needs something to get re elected and deflect from his other crimes. the countries mentioned are not going to push back, they have other things to deal with. For decades the U.S.A. wanted to be the “cop” around the world and the agreement was that was O.K. Other countries provided support and all was well and then we had bush and his incursion into Iraq and now we have Trump, the liar, thief, etc.

    Politicians don’t run countries any more, in many countries its corporations. Corporations don’t want like anything to interfere with profit. They want to continue to make money and as Leila Paul says, the stock market hasn’t shifted. Its all about the oil. Its all about the money. Trump is going to do what he wants to do and the rest of the countries ought not to get involved or support him. We know what he did to the Kurds.

    Not much as been written about negotiations with South Korea and Japan and the American continued presence in those countries It was reported a few months ago, when the American officials sat down with South Korea they more than tripled what South Korea contributes. same with Japan. Trump is running a protection racket and you can’t depend upon him the way you could the Mafia. Countries are better off to take care of their own defence and that may include having their own nuclear arms, as Trump suggested perhaps south Korea and Japan might want to do so the U.S.A. wasn’t responsible for them any more. Trump is fine with any country having nuclear arms as long as its not a Muslim country.

    Trump is in trouble. he is heading into trade negotiations with the U.K. and E.U. His American first and others last policy will not help him gain the support of those countries in a war.

    Once upon a time the U.S.A. was an isolationist country and the standard of living for its citizens low. Then came WW II. my take on it is, if things continue as they are, they will return to their prior status. There are lots of jobs in the U.S.A., but wages aren’t going up as they need to. a million in Puerto Rico need food stamps and Trump has said told the Senate he doesn’t want any more money spent there. Now the bill can’t get past the Senate to provide lots of money for N & S Carolina and all those non Latinix states. Fighting a war abroad, and the country is falling apart.

    (Response: I’m glad they wiped out Bin Laden …just wish they had gotten him earlier. Arrest? Do you really believe at least some Pakistani officials did not know where he was? Or what would have happened if the US requested he be arrested? He would have been gone before the cops/troops even left their base! Terrorists … who deliberately target civilians … deserve to get taken out … fast. No sympathy. Hope the US … and others …target more of them. But NOT officials of actual states/governments … unless/until a state of war exists. That’s what diplomacy, sanctions, blockades, retaliatory strikes on armaments/facilities/personnel are for. h.o.)

  12. Leila Paul says:

    (Edited…for length and off topic)

    We should also keep in mind that Nixon has been reported to have intentionally assumed a role of the madman in order to deter aggressions against the U.S. if they feared a madman might initiate a war with unpredictable consequences.

    I still believe internal resistance to war inside Iran may have helped to set up the death of Soleimani for Iranians are facing internal revolts and cannot face a hostile world while their internal divisions surround them and can bring them down with outside invasions adding to the seething rage within Iran and the entire region. The Gulf Arab states would gladly assist in bringing down the Iranian regime.

    Iran cannot avoid a confrontation and Soleimani was dragging Iran into wars it cannot win. That’s why I suspect there was internal approval of Trump’s assassination even from the upper echelon’s of Iran’s elite.

    Harvey, I’m so glad you’re blog is active again. Many of us missed you!

    (Response: Thanks. Almost afraid to let everyone know will soon be travelling again! LOL! h.o)

  13. e.a.f. says:

    Another reason not to be involved in with war. Trump has lied over 14,000 times since taking office! Now you going to trust him?
    he has a whole team of liars. Pence latest lie in defense of murdering Suleimani, he “assisted in the clandestine travel to Afghanistan of 10 of the 12 terrorists involved in 911”. there were 19 terrorists, the majority Saudi, some got their jet flying training in the U.S.A. and travelled in and out of the U.S.A. also.

    Nothing about this war will be truthful and given Trump’s record of over 14,000 lies to date, would you even do business with a person like that/

  14. Barry says:

    A gigantic mistake. A few weeks ago a great number of Iranians were out protesting against the government and wanted change. It is reported that hundreds have been cut down by the security forces.

    Now what? The people are starting to unite in a nationalistic fervor. See the pictures of the funeral? Lots of potential troublemakers there.

    The Americans have forgotten the lessons of Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq that a huge military can be fought to a standstill by a small, albeit highly motivated force. Dark times ahead folks. Doesn’t matter if he was a really bad guy, any adults in the room [which I doubt there was] should have been asking “What happens next?”

    It seems like POTUS seems to think only one person gets a voice in international affairs–his. Well, he is going to be shown that when he yells, nobody has to pay attention to him. In fact the Iranians may make him eat his words…

    (Response: Trump is a loose cannon … on EVERY topic. But THIS one will cost American lives and probably more Iranian lives before it settles down. Very sad. As I said, I wish the Americans (and others) good luck in taking out ANY terrorist groups, proxies and their leaders … anyone who deliberately target civilians … hit them HARD, destroy their ability to wage terror … but leave actual government leaders intact … to hopefully eventually negotiate a truce and maybe even peace. h.o.)

  15. Leila Paul says:

    Trump may be mimicking Nixon’s erratic temperament.

    I should have added that to the paragraph that Nixon often assumed an erratic, nearly manic behaviour in foreign affairs. Trump may be modelling his behavior in such a way that he is unpredictable.

    I doubt Trump cares if mere mortals ridicule him as he ridicules them right back. It serves him role as an unknowable and unpredictable leader while keeping everyone else off balance. That will serve his interests in the upcoming election campaign. We’ve already seen his bizarre behavior incite his rivals to equally bizarre behaviour.

    So far, Trump has actually inched the mideast closer to less turbulence. Pronouncing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital; the Golan as part of Israel and now the West Bank settlements as legal – none of that has backfire on Trump except to irritate Islamic extremists.

    Something had to be done to settle disputes more than 70 years old. Trump is no fool and knew that negoatiations do not work among implacable enemies. Someone must dictate the framework that must be accepted by both sides.

    In the end, Trump’s erratic behavior may actually save lives and resolve what for weaker global leaders were unresolvable issues.

  16. Harry lawson says:

    Harvey,

    you ask where will it stop ?
    it will not stop , we are dealing with such divides , cultural. religious ,political. .societal, .economic , make no mistake we are in a world war . this may not be a war like ww1 or ww2 it is still a war. expect more of these types of attacks, expect attacks on our financial markets, infrastructure , any of our systems ,

    we must remember one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter.

    (Response: There is a difference. The old adage ” one persons terrorist is another persons freedom fighter” only applies, in my view, when military forces target each other … but NOT when terrorists deliberately AIM at civilians, schools, markets, restaurants, hospitals that have no military role or significance. Then they ARE terrorists … and deserve to be wiped out. A very good example of that was relevant in the discussions surrounding my last blog: how BBC World, CBC National etc cover the Israel/Palestinian conflict. LOTS of stories about Palestinian concerns, stresses, angst, suffering, Israeli strikes on Hamas weapons depots, military installations, incursion tunnels but almost nothing about the impact/suffering on the other side of the border. Last night …on Joy TV …the Israel TV daily broadcast reported 2019 statistics: 1,300 rockets fired into Israel from Gaza! Wow! Aimed at the closest CITIES! Not at army bases …but homes, schools, downtowns etc. That’s TERRORISM … plain and simple… and those who fire them should be wiped out. Fortunately 480 were intercepted, 730 fell into open areas … but others dud hit, causing deaths and destruction. I dare say any other country facing 10 rockets from an adjoining state would go to WAR. And 1,300 !!! Not even worth reporting??? Until, of course, Israel fires back. It’s not terrorism when a state fires at terrorists to defend itself … but killing its leaders only makes any future potential negotiations/peace even less likely… so the best way is to take out the actors, but leave the director and producer able to change policy/direction. h.o)

  17. DBW says:

    This appears to be a no win argument. Let’s remember that we are not talking about a moral issue. We could but we aren’t. And we are not talking whataboutism although we have mentioned Bin Laden, Obama, and of course Hitler.

    We are talking about a single event and the potential consequences. Reread Harvey’s headline: Deserved but Dumb.

    Deserved? Sure. Although would we make the same whataboutism argument if some Iraqi had taken out Cheney or Rumsfeld after the bombing of Iraq and the death of Saddam Hussein.

    Dumb? Who knows until all the dust settles, but right now I am going with Harvey and saying that a more measured response would have been better.

    And if you don’t believe me or Harvey, then how about the former ambassador to Israel an Obama appointee so not without some bias but I did find it in an Israeli publication.

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/.premium-trump-s-impulsive-soleimani-strike-is-a-gift-for-iran-1.8354152

    (Response: I wouldn’t exactly call it is gift, but certainly Iran will benefit from sympathy from other recognized states, most of whose leaders I think would reflect my thinking: it’s one thing to target terrorist groups/leaders … but it’s unacceptable to target government/state top officials/leaders. And it sure won’t win Trump any friends/support overseas … even from “allies”. But again, that was not his goal: I believe it was and is all about domestic policies/problems and his base. h.o.)

  18. BMCQ says:

    Chances are very very good that almost all of the funding, the weapons themselves, the missiles and bombs, the other bullets, motars, the technology, the instruction, strategy, the influence, and targets of choice for each and every of the 1300 Rockets and other offensive attacks against Israel and other Middle Eastern/Gulf Targets came from Iran, a Proxy, all under the direction of Soleimani .

    Ask anyone targeted how they feel about the Killing of Soleimani .

    Enough is Enough !

    What do any of you suggest, should we send Canadian PM Justin in to negotiate a Cease Fire with someone like Soleimani ?

    Of course the Biased BBC, CBC, and so many more Media will not, did not, report anything about attacks on Israel until Israel responds in kind, that is their way .

  19. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I doubt… make that KNOW that Trump would not be called a dangerous fool by anyone, if he turned his focus to something even more dangerous to the American public: murder in their own back yard.

    “Out of 54868 homicides in 55 cities over the past decade, 50 percent did not result in
    an arrest,” says the Washington Post. That’s perhaps 25,000+ murderers running free (and the rough equivalent of one Twin Towers incident per year, going unsolved.)

    Nationally, in 2017, reported rapes were only solved 34.5% of the time.

    Trump may think that stemming the flow of “Murderers and rapists” across his southern border is a good start — but he’s got enough of his own home-grown variety, living among the populace. Trouble is: dealing with them is hard work and not a headline-catcher. And he can’t just take them out with a drone attack.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/investigations/unsolved-homicide-database/

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6207553/The-majority-U-S-crimes-unsolved-including-4-10-murders-FBI-data-shows.html

  20. G. Barry Stewart says:

    BMCQ says: “Iranian Leadership would take any opportunity to kill any Head of State or Senior Leader of any Free World Country at the earliest opportunity given the chance even if by Proxy.”

    I highly doubt that. They may WISH to — but they know the hell fire that would be bestowed upon them if they acted upon their wishes. As underdogs, they will take their revenge through shadowy back doors.

  21. BMCQ says:

    Barry

    Common sense tells all of us you make good points . Having said that I believe Bush, Obama, Trump first Term, Trump second Term, and the next should have/should deal with both and many other crimes all over the U.S. . We could probably do the same in YVR and GTA . All we need to do is look at the difference in New York City under the Mayor Bill De Blasio to see how fast any society can fall if left to the criminal element as PC SJW De Blasio has done . With Rule of Law Society has nothing .

    Our Conviction Rate and indeed Sentencing in B.C. and Canada as a whole is nothing to be proud of, look at the results .

    I am going to go out on a limb here and suggest that what many Free World Leaders are saying in private and amongst each other and speculate many are in agreement with the take down of Soleimani . Can I support that statement ? No .

    Again, we have always been in Choppy or Uncharted Waters with Iran and their exportation of Terror going back as far as 1979, to deny that is just plain silly .

    I clearly did not stae that Iran would take out any World Leader with a Full Frontal Attack, I said they would do anything they could to Kill a World Leader and they have .

    Just ask the Families of the Ambassador to Libya and his Support Staff that were killed in Benghazi, they might have something to say about the Killing of Soleimani .

    The Iranian Regime and their Proxies will Kill ANY Opposition to them within their own country or outside their country,

    Has the Iranian Government actually called for the Destruction of Israel and the Jewish People ? How does that sit with you ?

    Do you have any Friends or Family in Israel ?

    ……………………………..

    I am fully a aware that H.O. believes the “Killing of Soleimani was warranted but Dumb” .

    I simply do not agree, people have mentioned many current and past World Leaders both good and bad, why would they not, how else would we compare and provide clarity of opinions .

    The U.S. takes in more Refugees than any Nation in the World, why are they all fighting to get there ? My own Father and his Brother my Uncle crossed the Border Illegally when very young and my Uncle was Deported, they had nothing and they wanted to make a better life for themselves .

    “SPIN” this anyway you wish but the USA is the number one destination for any Refugee or displaced person in the world and once they get there they stay .

    When was the last time you saw 200 U.S. Citizens of any origin former Refugees, born in the U.S. rush down to the Beach in Miami, cobble together a Raft out of Old Cigar Boxes and row off to Cuba, El Salvador, the Sudan, or Venezuela for a better life ? The U.S. not a country of Freedom ? Yeah, sure .

    Look at how many Iranians and other Middle East People have settled in Canada and the U.S., don’t you believe a very high percentage of them are happy Soleimani was Killed ? Don’t you think they want/encourage Regime Change ?

    Of course we did not see much in the way of reporting where Iranian Canadians actually Celebrated the Killing of Soleimani .

    Do you not think they might have a valid reason for that ? They do not seem to feel it was Dumb ?

    Once again, the Biased Media have a Narrative they wish to promote and far too many of us take it in and do not really care to see anything but hate for Trump .

    TDS ? Perhaps

    In losing I will say this .

    After about a dozen instances of Iranian and Soleimani Terror Events in the last year alone, more than likely hundreds over the Clinton, Bush, and Obama Admins going back to what 1997 do you think things could get any worse ?

    Let’s be honest with ourselves, until there is Regime change in Iran we may see NO relief at all .

    There may be a slight chance that the Good People of Iran actually see an opportunity to continue their Fight against the Iran Regime now that Soleimani is gone and they may become Emboldened .

    We can always hope for hopes sake .

  22. helena handcart says:

    I doubt if anyone here had heard of Soleimani until last week, yet now we are all experts on his career. I have no doubt that he was not someone that you would invite to dinner, but he was a senior military commander, doing his job. Recent accounts say that he was in Baghdad liaising secretly to lower tensions between KSA and Iran. (who knows?). Before we start deciding who is a terrorist let’s remember some other “terrorists”: Nelson Mandela, Makarios, Menachim Begin and most of the leaders of the former British colonies. In fact, to be leader of an African nation one had to have been imprisoned by the Brits. These guys soon became respected freedom fighters.

    I hope wiser heads in the US prevail. POTUS does not give me a warm feeling that he is in control of this situation.
    Congratulations Uncle Bob. You managed 13 comments before you mentioned Trudeau and the biased BBC.

  23. e.a.f. says:

    I didn’t agree with the killing of Osama bin Laden because there had not been a process to declare him guilty of anything. Now we know who and what he was and what he had done. However, I would feel much better if the Court of the Hague would deal with these types of things. If it find some of these people guilty of unauthorized killings or terrorism, fine,. but just indiscriminate killing by other more powerful countries just takes us down the road to more problems.

    I don’t expect people like Osama bin Laden to “give up” when ordered to be arrested by a court, but I would feel much better about having a process. However, Osama bin Laden, in my opinion, falls under the category of “free lancer”, while Suleimani was a senior government official. When one country starts murdering the government officials of other countries you have a problem. what if Putin/Russian decides to murder the President of Ukraine? His justification could easily be, Trump ordered the killing of the 2nd ranked person in Iran.

    Trump ordered the murder of Suleimani, but the world powers were just fine with Mugabe murdering and killing in his own country. We have trump telling us what a great guy Kim 3 is, yet he has murdered and caused the deaths of ten of thousands of people. Is he less despicable because those murdered were from his own country? Trump thinks President Xi is a great guy, yet we know what China has done to Tibet, it has a million Muslims in camps, they harvest organs from their “prisoners”. So what makes any of these people less horrible than Suleimani. In my opinion, they all deserve to “rot in hell”. its just not up to Trump and a few others to decide who goes there and who doesn’t. there needs to be an independent court who decides that.

  24. Leila Paul says:

    The issue here is not simply Suleimani but the hostility between Iran and most of the Arab countries’ leadership as well as Iran’s hostility towards Israel.

    It’s been 71 years since Israel has declared its nationhood in the land where Judaism arose. The initial reaction by the Arab countries has nurtured the violent hostilities that are now so deeply entrenched and intermingled with such a complex and multi-layered set of animosities, it’s almost too difficult to discuss it.

    Peace is simply not possible anymore between all Palestinians and Israelis. If Israel had been accepted from the start the entire region would have blossomed along with Israel. Instead, the centuries-old animosities continue and Suleimani was only one personification of hostilities that are too deeply embedded. His assassination will not change much in the region and worrying about whether it will be the cause of a war between any parties is pointless. The animosity is widespread and was not only found within Suleimani’s actions nor that of his prized circle of instigators.

    I could be wrong of course for no one can predict anything about a region where irrational violence is the norm. But to blame Trump alone or to single out Suleimani distracts us from the real issue.

    Throughout human history, losers of a war, or any battle or dispute or competition, have had to concede defeat in order for all interested parties to move forward. It is time to remember the initial source of this unreasonably protracted and intense animosity. Palestinians and their purported Arab brothers, who abuse them as a means of irritating Israel, have never conceded defeat since 1948 and have spent all these past 71 years inciting horrendous battles and wars.

    Does Israel want to give up land? Of course not. And it would be foolish to do so. Reality and honest statements are what is absent from the interactions of all parties in the mideast.

    And part of that tragedy is that its ramifications have spilled out of their region and into the western world. That makes me angry.

    It motivates me to demand of Palestinians: concede defeat already and move on. If Palestinians consider themselves Arabs and are hostile to Jews and Israelis then those should move to Arab countries. Concessions and losses are all part of the human experience and through thousands of years people lose their lands and belonging and even their national identities.

    It’s long past time that Palestinians join their Arab brethren who should welcome them as equals in any of the Arab countries. Iran must stop meddling, needling and inciting further violence for it’s all slipping out of the realm of sanity.

    I am a Canadian whose family predicted the logical outcomes and left Palestine once the British abandoned their Mandate. So I feel entitled to say this, as few others might.

    It’s long past due that Palestinians simply do what they should have done in 1948. They must concede defeat and either join Israel as loyal subjects – OR LEAVE!

    Allow the rest of the world to move on peacefully too!

  25. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, you may not think much of Trudeau, but if they had sent him to negotiate something with Suleimani, it would have better than what has now happened. Had there been some sort of negotiating prior to this murder, it would have demonstrated some willingness to “deal”. However, as we have seen trump isn’t into doing things in a business like manner. he was the one who pulled the U.S.A. out of the nuclear deal. it might not have been great, but it was better than nothing. who knows if Trudeau had taken some other people with him, like Merkel,. what could have been achieved and now we will never know.

    if various news agencies had reported all the bombings you wanted reported, people would have turned off their t.v.s. Lets keep it real. it truly isn’t interesting until Israel does something people don’t like. the MSM is a business.

    yes one could say Iran “exported terrorism” but so did any number of other countries including the U.S.A. or have you not read history about American imperialism.

    of course other governments have called for the elimination of Israel, but lets not get too cared away there. there are lots of people in Canada and the U.S.A. who would not only like to see the elimination of Israel but all Jews. We all know about white nationalism and we all know about the murder of Jews and Muslims in their places of worship by white nationalists. Remember Charlottesville and their chants of “Jews will not replace us” and trump said, there were very fine people on both sides.

    When people go to work in Foreign affairs in dangerous places they all know the risk. they can all say thanks but no thanks. Its part of the job, just like death is part of the job for cops and fire fighters, military personnel, etc. They do it to serve their country or themselves–career advancement.

    I don’t care how many in Iran chant death to Israel. They haven’t nuked them yet. What concerns me more is the chanting in Charlottesville. As to, do I have relatives in Israel. Mom told us we had a distant cousin there. All others died in the concentration camps except her Father. Our family really does know what happens when things get out of control. We know what the Gestapo at the front door is all about. Our Mother mentioned it in passing.

    I wouldn’t get carried away with the U.S.A. TAKING more refugees than any other country in the world. After Vietnam the U.S.A. didn’t take as many as they ought to have and actually Italy, on a prorated basis took in more Vietnam refugees than another other country. The U.S.A. took in immigrants, in the past, not refugees. As I’ve already mentioned, they wouldn’t take refugees from Germany prior to WWII and those Jews died.

    On a pro rated basis, Canada took in more Syrians than the U.S.A. a couple of years ago. Germany took in a million Syrians. What did the U.S.A. do? Banned Muslims. the U.S.A. in the past has done wonderful things, in the past few decades, not so much. They are a racist country. People go to the U.S.A. because its much like us purchasing a lottery ticket. They have about as much chance of becoming millionaires as we do of winning the lottery. However, if you don’t have much to begin with, a one in a couple of million chance is better than nothing. many people also do not know what the U.S.A. is like to day with its murders, lack of health care, education in poor areas. its the nation which produced Perdue and all those opiods and a half a million of their citizens dead. great country. Every country has its good and bad points.

    The Iranians were already “unhappy” with their government, they protested. then Trump murdered Suleimani and now they are united against their aggressor. Had the U.S.A. left well enough alone, who knows what would have happened. trump just wanted to be like Putin and give orders to kill people.

  26. Harry lawson says:

    wow
    EAF
    your liberal tinted glasses are something else , if not i am so stressed i could use the kool aid lol {wife mot doing so good still in hospital } thinking Trudeau could negotiate anything is akin to having the class president negotiate a bully over lunch money . might work today he takes his cut , tomorrow is another lunchtime

  27. e.a.f. says:

    This morning’s edition of Politico has an interesting article up about Trump/Europe/murder of Suleimani. Title: Why Europe hates Trump so much. Boris Johnston is still on vacation in the Caribean. Marcon is still interested in meeting with Iran. Merkel is going to Russia to meet with Putin. No one is interested in dealing with Trump on this. They don’t trust him. On of the E.U. chiefs is meeting with an Iranian diplomat. You see Europe still wants to talk to Iran and were caught unawares that the U.S.A. would murder Suleimani Its not my “liberal” tinted glasses, its the pair with $ signs on them. Wars cost a lot of money. Might cut into Trudeau’s plans for a national prescription plan. I’d pass on the cool aid at this point and have a good Vancouver Island produced White Whiskey. May not change things, but it does make you forget about them for a few minutes.

    So my point was having Trudeau talk to the Iranians would have been a better choice than Trump having Suleimani murdered. What you may think of Trudeau, is fine, but murdering some one is less appealing than having Trudeau give it a try. I used him specifically as an e.g. knowing how much some here don’t think much of him. The E.U. doesn’t trust Trump and don’t expect any of them to join this war. Last time it was the coalition of the “willing”, it sounded good, even if they weren’t keen. This time there is nut bar in the white house and all of Europe and NATO, and other countries know it. Trump is not be trusted. He sold out the Kurds. He is playing extortion 101 with South Korea and Japan. Canada and other countries are better off to stay out of it. Trump needs to learn when you murder a government official there are repercussions and your allies may well not be around to help you out of it this time Trump needs to learn you consult with your allies before you take major action. he isn’t the boss of the world, as much as he’d like to think he is tough guy, little old snow flake my heel spurs hurt isn’t going to have others take care of the ugly stuff.

    Bush wasn’t the brightest light, but NATO was willing to “play” for awhile whether it was due to loyalty towards the U.S.A. or a liking for Bush. Trump, over 14,000 lies and abandoning the Kurds, will find the other countries have other things to spend their money on. Europe has a housing problem. they’d rather spend their money on that.

    When Trump abandoned the Kurds he left them to be murdered though they had done the heavy lifting/fighting with ISIS. had it not been for the Kurds, who knows how it would have turned out. You can bet they won’t be around to do any lifting this time.

    People tend to under estimate Trudeau. I never thought he’d go the rounds with the Conservative Senator. He did and he won. He’s tougher than he looks.

    Harry I’m sorry to hear your wife is still hospital and not doing well. My thoughts are with you. Take care, e.a.f.

  28. Leila Paul says:

    @eaf

    I believe your sentiments are motivated by good will, but unfortunately people who have already planned numerous deaths and mayhem are very cold blooded and ruthless.

    Two things are most obvious and warrant comment. The idea of Trump asking the unaccomplished blackface who almost boasted he failed a bunch of high school courses (60 mins interview with Lesley Stahl after first elected) being asked by Trump to help him and deal with the tough guy on Trump’s behalf is more than just an amusing thought. That would require Trump to admit he is not capable of dealing and negotiating with a tough guy than Trudeau whose made himself ridiculous in numerous instrances. One of those was ridiculing Trudeau at a recent summit and Trump responded that Trudeau was two-faced.

    Further, Putin – who is a tough guy – would never have attempted negotiations with someone like Soleimani. And Putin was undoubtedly advised, in advance, of the hit and probably did not interfere knowing that Soleimani’s plans would result in a hellish havoc for the entire region if he continued unchecked.

    Additionally, you significantly over-estimate the abilities of the unaccomplished little puff ball whose been pampered all his life and has no self-confidence because he himself stated that was why he failed his high school courses. He said he was so intimidated by his father’s mythological shadow hanging over him all his life.

    Trudeau did not even negotiate with one of his own respectable minister about the SNC Lavalin issue. He just fired her.

    Maybe you envision Trudeau going to Iran (assuming he be permitted to even land there where he’s held in very low regard) and then “negotiating” with the uber-tough Iranian guards and Soleimani. If that did not work, then maybe Trudeau could have fired Soleimani.

    On what basis do you think Trudeau has demonstrated a capacity for negotiating with any global leaders other than to taken their orders and do his best to appease them.

    If Trudeau cannot even propitiate the wild man Trump, it seems incomprehensible to me to fantasize that Trudeau could stand up to a tough and hardened mass killer and strategist like Soleimani.

    I repeat that I believe even in Iran the rational people and those in power who do not want all-out war with any powerful nation or alliance, such as the leaaders of the Gulf Arab states or the U.S., were glad to be rid of Soleimani who had lost his sense of being a mere mortal and did not take the precautions a sane person would have taken knowing he is not invincible.

    Let’s not delude ourselves that Trudeau is invincible. He’s a puff ball who’d be on the slopes snow boarding and chasing skirts in blackface. What put Trudeau into the PM actor’s role is his privileged name and his willingness to obey orders from the globalists.

  29. BMCQ says:

    I believe that the whole so called “Iran Retaliation” has much more to the story than what most of you here wish to believe or are told by Media .

    The Iranians, the Leadership in NoKo, several African Nations and many other Terrorist Groups have been put on notice that there are about two dozen kids somewhere in the Nevada Desert that can Pilot Drones very well and drop Missiles onto a Target the size of a Pancake if they so choose, or as in the case of Soleimani a Forehead.

    The Iranian Leadership and other Terrorist Organizations and groups now understand that they are not dealing with Barack Obama and there is a price to pay for Shedding the Blood and Treasure of the U.S. Military Personnel or Contract Workers .

    Yes President Obama used Drones but he did not use them to ensure his Military People were kept safe, there there is No Mistake there is a “New Sheriff in Town” .

    I theorize that attitudes of Iranian Leadership, NoKo, and many other Rogue Nations and Groups are going to be seeking safe heaven under the shade of a tree whenever possible . Those Despots know nowhere is safe if they continue to take chances by attacking innocent people . Here that “No Safe Spaces” .

    YOU can Run but YOU Cannot Hide !!

    Contrary to what CNN, Don Le Mon, Anderson, Tapper, Fredo, MSNBC, Fareed, BBC, CBC, Global are reporting it is NO mistake that the Iranian Missile Drivers are not the Gang that Could Not Shoot Straight” .

    Do you honestly believe that Iranian Missiles missed Targets by mistake ?

    Do you honestly believe that those Missiles could not even have hit a targeted Stray Goat if they really wanted to ? Those Missiles were intended to miss their so called Targets and miss completely anything that moved or breathed .

    Come on People, You can figure this out, can’t you ?

    Iran was given a chance to “Save Face”, by the Trump Admin, the attack was orchestrated with the cooperation of the USA, . There were discussions between Iranian Leadership and the Pompeo State Department, it is just that simple .

    The Iranian Leadership can then tell the about one third Radical Population that they confronted the USA and they retaliated and Soleimani will now be able to enjoy his time with the 72 Virgins . By the way the translation of that actually states 72 Raisins but who is counting . What a surprise Soleimani will have when he arrives looking for the girls .

    The Supreme Leader of Iran will tell his Followers that 300 American Dogs were killed and all is well, he will then be able to watch as his Followers take to the streets Fist Pump, Chant “Death to America”, Burn a few USA Flags and squeal at the Moon for the rest of the week . Everything will be just fine .

    In the mean time negotiations will go on between the USA, it’s Allies, and the Iranian Regime which will hopefully lead to some kind of an armistice or temporary cease fire so negotiations can take place..

    Yes, I am going out on a limb with this theory but I have done it before and I like my track record up to this point .

    The Iranians hit Exactly what they were aiming at/targeted, Sand and Weeds, nothing more, mark my words .

    I believe we will very soon see a marked de-escalation of the Hot Bed of trouble in the Middle East even if it is only temporary so negotiations can take place, Iran needs to re think things very quickly before they end up taking on much more than they are capable of handling .

    Now stand back and watch this all play out .

    Of course the Biased Media i have already mentioned will be very late arriving to the party but in the not too distant future they will all need to report what I have just stated .

    Not sure Trump is as Dumb as some might wish .

    As to the hatred of DJT by the EU and NATO ?

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2019/01/27/nato-chief-credits-trump/2695799002/

    (Edited..off topic)

  30. e.a.f. says:

    Leila, I clearly understand “hard people” who murder and kill at will. My point was no one tried and better some one than no one. It is the for very reason Trudeau comes across as “light” that he’s some one to send. No one dislikes the guy. I also believe he is tougher than we give him credit for. OF course he isn’t invincible. Trump just proved that when he murdered Suleimani. We do not now know if he’d rather be “snow boarding and chasing skirts in blackface”. The activities, especially the “black face” were thinks all sorts of people did 20 years ago or in their 20s. if people don’t remember that because they’re too old or didn’t know young people in their yearly 20s who went to Halloween parties in what is now considered very un PC looks, you didn’t hang out with very many young people. The black face routine was fairly standard fair at parties during the 1970, 80, 90s here in B.C.

    I would suggest the big difference between Trump and Suleimani is, Trump’s “crazy” and Suleimani was sane. People who do the type of work as Suleimani are perfectly sane. They are working on behalf of their government. when we look at blood thirsty and terrible behaviour, all countries have had these people. they are necessary in times of war. Some of the bombings Churchill ordered or the nuclear bombs on Japan………….but they were not sudden rash decisions made by one man who didn’t have much experience at doing much more than going bankrupt and running a t.v. show.

    As to negotiating skills or lack of them with JWR, that was never going to work, so he pulled rank. usually many consider that an O.k. thing to do, but in this case, there was just so much political hay to be made. (I believe she did the right think)

    It was some fun to watch Trump squirm last night as he tried to back peddle on the bombing of culturally important structures. That’s the problem with Trump, he can’t even figure out what is important to bomb and not to bomb. He doesn’t even get that destroying culturally important sites is a war crime. If its not important to him, he seems to have the view its not important to the others in the world.

    Trump was an idiot for starting any of this. we have seen the Iranians fire a few missles at bases, it appears no one was killed, so now if Trump gets all “crazy” and starts something major based on that, it will not end well.

    There are still Europeans who meet with Iranians. It was Trump who started this mess and pulled out of the nuclear accord and imposed sanctions all the while trying to have sanctions on Russians withdrawn. Trump is one of those swaggering male idiots or thinks he’s big time, until some one walks up to him and shoots him. He acts as if he thinks he’s above the law because he’s Pres. of the U.S.A. The more distance Canada and other nations put between Trump and themselves the better off we will be when it comes to this Iranian war.

    Until Trump is removed from office Iran will not negotiate with the U.S.A. For that matter other countries aren’t going to be too keen either. China and Japan and others may do their trade deals but all of them know they won’t be worth the paper they’re written on. All it will take is for Trump to decide things such as Canada’s steel is a danger to their country’s security and impose tariffs.

  31. Leila Paul says:

    Perhpas we should think of Soleimani as an idea. That idea was that human life could be obliterated in order to achieve an extremist sectarian goal. That idea need to be killed.

    The retaliatory missile strikes by Iran against US forces sites in Iraq missed their targets. IMO these were intentional misses. Iran must save face by putting on a show of outrage against the killing of Soleiman. Yet how could they have missed their targets? The likely answer is that they did not.

    There has been so much going on secretly within the now westernized and wealthier leaders of Arab countries and their secret ally, Israel.

    Egypt is still a basket case but reliant on Israel for many things including the natural gas they receive from Israel’s Leviathin platform in the Mediterranean. Greece and Cyprus have also made deals with Israel regarding this platform. The obvious outliers have been Iran and Turkey.

    Without going off topic too far, we may take some comfort in knowing that Suleimani has been prevented from creating attack garrisons encircling Israel. Saudi Arabia has helped Israel in its defense as have the Gulf Arab states. Egypt has also assisted by preventing Gaza from growing too powerful in its extremism and attempts to build animosity aganst Israel by the western world. Now Hamas in Gaza may also be softening in their hostility, but nothing is ever certain in world of shifting sands and fluctuating emotions and loyalties.

    Suffice it to say for now that Iran is probably relieved that it no longer has to face off against insurmountable odds. With US bases in Iraq, and the Gulf states allied with Saudi Arabia with Egypt included in the recognition now that Israel lives among them. They are reconciled to the fact too much death and destruction has occurred and its late – but not too late – to embrace Israel as a neighbor and partner in many ways.

    Except for the extremists in Iran like Soleimani and his extremist guards who protected him and served him, Iranians are slowly coming to terms with the new reality that Israel can be a blessing to the entire region and the time has come to slowly drop the animosity and develop a friendship as well as economic, cultural and regional cooperation with all its neighbours.

    Iran’s leadership is not suicidal but the human psyche has a need to make radical changes slowly so as to save face.

    Trump, who is reviled and ridiculed seems to care little, if at all, about how he is perceived unless it interferes with his re-election. Meanwhile, those who know that Trump is taking heat for Suleimani’s assassination in order to blow away the obstacles to potential peace are going through the motions of objecting to the assassination that is expected of them by their followers or their electorate.
    I may be overly optimistic, but I see Soleimani’s assassination not as murder, but as a necessary removal of an unyielding obstacle to potential peace in a land where masses of people languish in desperate hope that, within their lifetimes, they may know some semblance of safety from fear. Their hopes for a better future for their children, whether Arab or Israeli, are no different than ours.

    The whole globalist movement may have been part of the overall strategy. It has brought Muslims here and we know them now as neighbors and friends. As we get to know more about Muslims and their hopes, which are so similar to ours, now that they live among us, we may support the necessary explosions needed to clear away the debris that blocks the paths to peace. Slowly, among all the religious groups and sects we may be able to transition from resistance, suspicion and extremism to acceptance and not merely tolerance of one another.

    Imagine a world where Israel and its neighbors interact on all levels, social, cultural and economic. While I know Trump appears boorish and crude, he may be the only kind of person to have the disregard for public adoration that too many other leaders crave. While Trump is not a likable man at the best of times, someday he may be recognized for having done the necessary dirty work to clean up the mess in the tragically suffering middle east.

    It is a new year and possible a new era in our global civilization. Despite all the evil Suleimani has done, may he RIP – even though in life he did all he could to prevent it.

  32. Leila Paul says:

    @eaf

    Trump’s comment about destroying culturally significant sites was one of his thoughtless absurdities and, I believe, one he never intended to act on. My guess is Trump uttered that as we would use as an exclamation mark.

    If we want to dislike someone who destroyed culturally significant sites, I start by resenting GW Bush for allowing the rampaging and stealing of the invaluable treasures from museums and other such sites in Iraq while the human suffering may never be fully known.

    And going back not that far in human history, one of my great dislikes is Alexander the Macedonian who allowed himself and his drunken buddies and generals to destroy the magnificence of Persepolis.

    It is said that even Alexander the Macedonian (I refuse to call him “the Great”) awoke with regret the following morning. Now that was a crime against humanity, IMO.

  33. 13 says:

    Just reading the last paragraph above the comments box.
    Trump will need to be “removed” form office. A tad biased.
    Iran and other countries will not negotiate. Iran has never negotiated in good faith especially when it comes to nuclear weapons. Trump decided that Canadas steel is a danger…….I guess the art of negotiating from a position of strength is lost on some.
    A position of strength would also aptly describe exactly how Trump is dealing with Americas enemies. I wonder if any other terrorists have paused to digest what can happen.

  34. Eldon says:

    I’m finding it difficult to stake ground in this one. Certainly Solameini was a terrible person dealing death to his own people. Why was it up to the US to kill him? Didn’t Trump campaign on isolationism and withdrawal from the Mideast? I’ve never found that military action in the Mideast accomplishes anything substantial.

    I’m interested in Canada’s next steps. I’d love to hear especially from Conservatives about what Canada’s role should be in the coming conflict. The only way to have credibility criticizing Trudeau later would be to speak plainly now about what should be done.

    (Response: There was a time when Canada could have been an honest broker between Iran and the US … but not now. We don’t even have diplomatic relations with Iran and are seen by the Iranian government as clearly on the US side … and although I think we should be clearly on the US side in this case, it makes us a non player in the game of statesmanship in this case. Ho)

  35. e.a.f. says:

    #13, your comment of, Iran has never negotiated in good faith…” may be your opinion, but in my opinion, that is just your opinion. It isn’t grounded in fact.

    Dcclaring Canadian steel as a security issue for the u.s.a., that isn’t negotiating, its simply making a stupid statement which Trump is good at or a lie, which he has done over 14,000 times since becoming president, lying is his strength.

    The Senate has been “briefed”. One Utah Republican wasn’t amuzed, neither were the Democrats. No information was really shared. Watching Pompeo on the news was something out of a comedy routine, when he tries to explain there was imminent danger.

    There is a difference between strength and bullying. smart people know what the line is. Trump isn’t smart, he’s a lair with very little knowledge of how the world works. He cheated on his wives, his business associates, continually went bankrupt, etc. Great guy, great leader.

    The rest of the western European leaders think him a joke.

    he feel in love with a murdering dictator, Kim 3.

    Marcy Wheeler over at Empty Wheel has a very interesting post up about the whole matter. she is well worth reading.

    What ever happened when Bush was in office, and it dealt with war, he has an out. He briefed the Gang of 8. He just wasn’t as stupid as Trump. Bi partisian goes a long way.

    Trump craves attention. He craves adoration. He has all the personality traits of a narcist. Days before the murder, while he was still at Mar a la go he was bragging to guests and others, some thing big was going to happen. H e just can’t help himself. who else but a narcist would lie about the number of people who attended his inauguration and then blame everything that happens on Obama, including this “incident” with Iran. The man is a nut bar. Obsessed with his appearance–the make up, the hair, the lies when the truth would work.

  36. DBW says:

    Sometimes, at least for me, one of your topics sends me in directions that give me a chance to consider things beyond the actual topic and whether or not I agree with you or other readers. Case in point: an article from CNN.

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/07/politics/iran-foreign-policy-2020-voters-trump/index.html

    Forget for a minute our feelings for Trump or Iran/Soleimani. How do we make the decisions in our own life and does that reflect our feelings toward the leaders who make decisions that could affect the world.

    I think we can agree that Trump’s decision to kill Soleimani was decisive. He acted quickly and didn’t waver. But was it impulsive? Should he have been more deliberative? In my personal life, I am way more deliberative, maybe too much so. Other people are more impulsive, perhaps too much so.

    Obama has been criticized for some of his inactions. And we can see the fall out from that lack of decisiveness. But what we also don’t see/have are the negative results that may have occurred had he acted more decisively. Bush’s decisive decision to invade Iraq now looks impulsive and reckless.

    I hope I am making some sense. Time will tell if the killing of Soleimani was good, bad, or inconsequential but even then we can’t be sure without that alternate universe to show us how things might have been different.

    (Response: Killing a horrible killer may easily seem to be a fairly defensible act. But the real issue is what the long-term consequences or benefits will be. ICertainly it will set back even the slightest possibility for peace or even dialogue/negotiations between Iran and the US. Not that I was optimistic anyway … but I believe Trump made it even harder for the Iranians to even move towards negotiations. H.o )

  37. D. M. Johnston says:

    I will quote myself:

    “This action by Trump has set into motion an almost uncountable number of smaller actions, which result will be soon known.”

    Sadly, very sadly, the destruction and now murder of mostly Canadian or Canadian bound passenger, with the “shoot down” of the Ukrainian airliner is unfortunately one of “smaller” actions of the Soleimani killing.

    As others vent on whether the killing was legitimate or not, it has set the world on a different course, a course which has left tears on many Canadian faces.

    More and just as sad actions are to follow.

    When assassination takes place, no one thinks of the long term consequences.

    (Response: That’s why I questioned ..ad still ask …what were the long-term goals or benefits Trump believed would result from killing Soleimani? As I stated: Deserved …but Dumb. h.o)

  38. G. Barry Stewart says:

    I’ve been elsewhere in the last few days — but I see no one has mentioned the (probably unintentional) shooting down of the Ukrainian Air 737 and the loss of 176 lives, 63 of them Canadian.

    If Trump didn’t pull the trigger on Soleimani, I say those 63 Canadians would be home safely now. This is what happens when a irrational buffoon gets to play with deadly toys.

    (Response: In international conflicts, there are ALWAYS dangers of unplanned, unintended … but tragic …consequences. Remember when the Russians shot down that Korean airliner; the more recent shooting down of a Malaysian Air flight …and now this looks suspicious too. The video I saw sure didn’t look like spontaneous engine failure. But blame Trump? Not sure I’d go that far…directly … I’d blame incompetent Iranian air defense/radar monitors who maybe thought it was a cruise missile after Iran fired at the US bases …and their panicked generals who over-reacted. h.o)

  39. 13 says:

    Retaliation was expected. Canada moved soldiers to Kuwait as did the US. Can anybody tell me why the airliner took off during a missile launch. Certainly the airport was told to hold planes on the ground until the missile attack was over. We must believe that Iran had nothing to do with that airliner being brought down because of Irans track record of acting in good faith.
    Iran just maybe didnt act in good faith (my opinion).

  40. e.a.f. says:

    Harvey, all of what you say may be true regarding panicked generals, etc. but if trump hadn’t started this, we would not have a downed airliner. The news has reported the Lutansia flight was on its way to Tehran and turned back once they knew the Ukrainian flight had been shot down. Both airlines have 5 flights a week to Tehran.

    Its similar to the Malaysia flight with all the Dutch passengers on board, shot down by a Russian missle. Had Putin not invaded the Crimea those people could well be alive to day.

    Some of these world leaders who think they’re a kin to god or whatever, go ahead and do things without every being brought to justice for their actions.

    As far as I’m concerned Trump can wear this. Just another group of people dead because of Trumps lack of concern over what he does. the other group–those who died in his concentration camps, especially the children due to a lack of health care.

    Its part of Trumps mentality. Once you’er of no use to him, your disposable. Much like those undocumented workers on his properties, finish the grape harvest and then fired after working there for up to 10 yrs. The man is a menace to society and human life. Its always about him, his money, his needs, his position, his ego. To bad there isn’t a hell because he’d be a good candidate for it.

  41. ISLAND LOOKOUT says:

    Who knows how/when the mad mullahs will respond to Trump’s latest move. I suspect tit-for-tat is a possibility as you’ve mentioned. But I hope not.

    Was the suspected shoot-down of that Ukrainian aircraft an act of revenge or just a horrible coincidence following the Iranian missile attacks on two US bases, in Iraq that did no damage and caused no injuries or deaths, just hours before?

    Iran is still a cunning, manipulative country, a dictatorship with visions of empire always dancing in their evil leaders’ heads as they contemplate a Chinese/Russian/Iranian imperial triumvirate.

    The relative quiet we “see” in the Mideast is an uneasy one. Whose shoes will drop next and then what? Life is cheap in that part of the world.

    Meanwhile what’s our federal government and Justin going to do about all of this? I see no strength there.

    Not exactly confidence-building.

    (Response: Everyone …even staunch Trump supporters …should ask themselves … Is the mid-East (or the world, for that matter) safer, more at ease and better off now than before Soleimani was killed? I doubt it: in fact, probably a little more unsafe and under even higher pressures. Soleimani was a disgusting terrorist, decked out in an official Iranian government uniform … but the BETTER target would be those he (and others like him) send out to do their dirty work … and also hit the places they work, plan, organize and even live …to destroy their infrastructure and the means to carry out any leader’s instructions… not the leader himself …and then set off a few hundred thousand zealots to avenge his death. h.o)

  42. Leila Paul says:

    Someone whose personal experiences and professional expertise gives more insight into this Suleimani “surgical extraction”.
    https://stevepieczenik.com/2020/01/05/opus-203-update-on-iran/

  43. 13 says:

    So far (I think that all of these claims actually were made rendering them factual)
    Iran had nothing to do with airliner
    Iran denies any involvement
    Iran demands the US turn over evidence.
    Iran says the plane was shot down unintentionally
    Iran says it was shot down when mistaken for enemy aircraft
    This list is subject to change but would point towards a regime that does not act in good faith. My opinion based on facts.

  44. BMCQ says:

    It is Absurd for anyone to suggest or conclude that the Trump Administration is to blame for the Tragic and Gut Wrenching Ukrainian Passenger Jet .

    Next thing we know you will be blaming DJT for the Sinking of the Titanic or perhaps “The Orange One” might be blamed for the upcoming pregnancy of the next Kim Kardashian Surrogate . Hey, wait a minute, lets wait and see, the Baby may end up being “Orange” .

    TDS ?

    Did you make the same claims after thousands of innocents were killed in the name Revenge for of Osama after Seal Team 6 under POTUS Obama Killed Osama ?

    Those good people killed in revenge for the Osama Killing did not all die on one plane but there were hundreds of attacks and thousands killed in the name of Osama, and it goes on today .

    POTUS Obama made the right call and I Salute him for that decision, I am quite sure he would authorize the Strike again today . Perhaps you did blame Obama and I just missed it . How Juvenile .

    My Condolences to the Family and friends who lost loved ones on the plane .

    ………………………………..

    The Iranian Leadership are in serious trouble at home, they are close to facing a Revolution and the Free World need to help in any way they can to suport the Good People of Iran who wish to take down the Dictatorship, yes it IS a Dictatorship .

    Iran is fighting Wars against many Middle Eastern Countries including Israel through Proxies and Iran is suffering with the cost of those Wars of Terror and the Sanctions are taking a tremendous Toll on the economy .

    Iran is now stretched to the Limit an they are short on Money, so much so that the People of Iran are not getting the basics .

    Now was and is the time to take out Terrorists like Soleimani, Obama had the chance and he passed, his “Line in the sand” was nothing more than a talking point for CNN .

    I believe that Russia may become involved in brokering discussions and negotiations between Iran, and the USA, Iran are now between a Rock and Hard Place and the Supreme Leader will do anything to hang ponto power, he may even be willing to discuss a cease fire to get relief from the sanctions .

    Trump WAS NOT DUMB as some might wish here, he is doing exactly what he should do to De=Fang Iran, Iranian proxies, get other Free World Nations and NATO on Board, and keep Israel and other Peaceful Middle Eastern Nations safe from Terror Sponsored by Iran .

    Some here might find the attached piece from NBC who hate DJT somewhat interesting .

    https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/trump-s-assassination-iran-s-qassem-soleimani-was-smart-thing-ncna1111586

    (Response: The following, from Huffington Post Canada, when speculation began that the plane was shot down, should be printed and framed in every household around the world: “Ali Abedzadeh, the head of the Iran’s national aviation department, denied those allegations Friday in a news conference in Tehran.
    “What is obvious for us, and what we can say with certainty, is that no missile hit the plane,” Abedzadeh said.”
    Creep!! “With certainty” Double creep!!! And he’s no minor spokesman, but the HEAD of Iran’s national aviation ministry. Triple CREEP!!! Iranian officials knew seconds after they fired the missile …what happened. One of the worst “Oops” moments of the century. And yet, worse than the mistake, was that for THREE DAYS, they lied, they denied, they bulldozed the site, they told the world “with certainty” it was not them, not their fault … I kept waiting for them to even blame Israel. Until amateur videos of the hit, the explosion started to emerge …and they likely realized the American military etc no doubt have even a lot better. So they suddenly remembered they did fire a missile at the plane … in a panic mistake. But this shows .. even in the face of the extraordinary tragedy and grief of hundreds of families … how Iranian officials will look straight into the cameras ..and lie. With certainty. And no doubt Iranian officials will lie on anything and everything when it suits them…. until you reveal their lies ON VIDEO. CREEPS!!! And I say that WITH CERTAINTY. h.o)

  45. e.a.f. says:

    Juan Cole has an interesting post up over at Informed Comment. It details why Suleimani was in Iraq–not a covert operation, but travelling on his diplomatic passport. The interesting point of the article is the times the U.S.A. had the assistance of the proxies he trained to fight in the Middle East and the air support they gave the Iranian proxies when they fought to regain, Tikrit , when it was thought the American trained Iraqi army wasn’t ready to do so. Many may not like Suleimani, but he the fighters he trained, proxies, did assist in the defeat of ISIS/DASH.

    In my opinion Trump simply murdered Soleimani believing Israel would support him in the blow back–not so much.

    Now we have the Americans trying to peddle the Suleimani was going to blow up an American Embassy, then that number grew to 4. Lets not forget Trump has told over 14,000 lies since becoming president. He refers to Syrian oil as “ours”. the man operates like a toddler, seeing something and wanting it, saying all the while, “mine, mine, mine”. Most toddlers get through this stage, Trump appear to never have.

    If we go back to Trump’s support for Putin, he took Putin’s word over his own Intelligence Services. So if we believed that, are we now to believe you can believe what the Intelligence Service has to say. On the other hand, we haven’t hear anything from the American Intelligence Services to support Pompeio’s allegations Suleimani was going to attack American Embassies, just Pompeo waxing on. I suspect the man was lying. the way he sweats is a dead give away.

  46. BMCQ says:

    Harvey – Response

    Well said and the now admission of Iran will immediately trigger that hundreds of thousands and perhaps Millions of Freedom Seeking Iranians of all ages and Socioeconomic Backgrounds will take to the streets and do everything they can to take down the Dictatorial Leadership of the Iranian Supreme Leader and his Terrorist Minions .

    The USA, the UK, the eU, Canada, and the rest of the Free World need to do everything we can to create Regime Change, the Good People of Iran deserve much better than what they have had under the Brutal Dictatorial Leadership of the Mullahs.

    There was opportunity when the Obama admin were the Leaders of the Free World and they sat on their hands, we cannot afford to not take advantage of this next coming opportunity, we must act while the Iranian People have the opportunity to make cataclysmic changes needed in Iran .

    The Supreme Leader and his Supporters are soon to find themselves on the Wrong End of a Revolution and if successful the Good People of Iran who push for Democracy can change everything in the Middle East and perhaps the World .

    Time for us to count ourselves in, DO WE have the Leadership in Canada to step up and assist the People of Iran ?

    Only time will uh tell .

    Are YOU a Betting People Kind ?

    Will Canada support the dozens of Canadians who had families killed on the Ukraine Jet by standing up to the Supreme Leader and at the same time will Canada support Freedom seeking Iranians still within the Borders or Iran ?

    Just what will the Iranian Military do without the Leadership of Soleimani, will that Military support the Supreme Leader or will that Military support the Iranian People who choose Freedom ?

    Where do WE as Canadians Stand ?

    I can guarantee you that Canadians who originated in and came to Canada from Iran are on the side of the People of and in Iran, and they choose Democracy .

    I have a guess where too many Canadians stand and it saddens me .

  47. G. Barry Stewart says:

    BMCQ, I read that piece — even voted on the split-decision poll.

    The writer obviously has more intel on the region than I, though I still am dead against Trump’s terroristic decision to take out a foreign government official — and his entourage — without the permission of the Iraqi government.

    Trump’s sham of a briefing and Rand’s reaction to it ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfr6CoSmEBw ) shows that specifics were not shared with key congressional officials. I’d say that’s because Trump and Pompeo didn’t actually have the specifics.

    Trump told the world in Helsinki that he didn’t trust U.S. Intelligence. The world, largely, doesn’t trust his.

    While I was at NBC’s “Think” site, (which refreshingly houses a wide range of views, as does Harvey’s site) I went further down the rabbit hole, finding George Gallway’s video reaction to the Soleimani assassination. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYDeAz9Iw4E

    (His voice reminds me of the late Jack Webster’s!)

    Gallway has a strong case against the take-out — and interesting intel on why the Iraqis attacked the U.S. embassy in Iraq. Hint: Nothing to do with Soleimani.

    He also has a very dark opinion on where this all could be headed. I disagree with his contention that Iran will react in an open fashion. That’s as foolish as was “going over the top” in WWI trench warfare.

    As Rand Paul says, there currently is no vehicle for the Iranians and Americans to come to any table. He still plans on supporting Trump in the coming campaign — but I don’t see Trump providing any path to peace in the region.

    Trump needs to go.

  48. G. Barry Stewart says:

    Harvey says: “And no doubt Iranian officials will lie on anything and everything when it suits them…. until you reveal their lies ON VIDEO. CREEPS!!!”

    Reminds me Of “Baghdad Bob” (Iraqi Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf) who denied the presence of U.S. bombing, during the 2003 invasion — despite explosions going on behind him.

    Or more recently, Trump’s Sean Spicer claiming, “This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration—period—both in person and around the globe.”

    Unlike Trump, the Iranians have actually come around and admitted their… misspeaking, in less than a week.

    . . . . .

    Another interesting rabbit hole for people with spare time: Baghdad Bob’s predictions, viewed ten years later. https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/03/baghdad-bob-and-his-ridiculous-true-predictions/274241/

  49. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, lets not get too carried about people being murdered and dying. The Americans shoot each other with such accuracy they murder each other to the extent 50K of them die each year.

    In Canada in 2018, over 1270 people died as a result of some one drinking or drugging and then driving.

    24,000 people die each day of the year from hunger and hunger related causes.

    Not too many people get that exercised about that.

    In the grand scheme of things, one General was murdered and 176 passengers on a jet were murdered because one American idiot decided to murder one General.

    In the meantime over 13,000 people have died in the fighting in Ukraine, where Trump wanted to withhold armaments.

    BMCQ do not count on that many Iranians taking to the streets in protest. it’s kind of out there. there will be many who are upset with the militia bringing the jet down, but they will see if as an accident, which if trump hadn’t murdered the General, would most likely never have happened. You may think what you want about Iran and its leadership, but compared to other countries, its way ahead and would be further ahead if the U.S.A. didn’t carry on with their sanctions. There is a bit of a laugh there. Sanctions on Iran which results in children not receiving medication and trying to life sanctions on Russian oligarchs who carry out Putin’s work. Like give it a rest.

    the world is a bit of a shit pit from time to time. We’re lucky we don’t live in that “shit pit”. If we want to avoid getting involved in these crazy American wars, we should stay out of what Trump is doing now.

    Iran has admitted they shot down the jet. That is more than the Americans do at any time, but what can you expect from a President who has told over 14,000 lies since coming to office. Yes the Americans would have us believe they’re the good guys and the evil Iranian government or General was going to blow up 4 Embassies. the base may buy into it it, most of us aren’t . We know trump lies.

    The Americans are refusing to leave Iraq. what are they, an occupying force which refused to acknowledge Iraqi sovereignty. Oh, right the oil must be the Americas. Trump did say, although they were abandoning the Kurds, they were going to stay and protect “our” oil in Syria.

    while everyone is carrying on how dreadful the Iranians are for shooting down the jet and killing 176 people, no one seems to remember the Americans little jaunt down this aisle back on 3 July 1988. On this date an American war ship, which was in Iranian waters, shot down the Iranian jet, which was in Iranian air space killing all 290 people on board. The American war ship fired a SM2MR. Eventually at the International court of Justice, in 1996, the U.S.A. agreed to make an ex gratia payment of $61.8M to the families of the dead Iranians. The Americans did not admit guilt or apologize. Can we now say they’re even? (this occurred in the later part of the Iran/Iraq 8 year war during which the Americans played around and was involved on the periphery, when it suited them)

    For the Trumpster who all almost profess to be such good little Christians, they seem to have forgotten that commandment of “thou shalt not kill” and are so good with Trump ordering the murder of a General. The Iranian, then on high alert, make a mistake, to which they have admitted and killed 176 people

    The Americans were fine with General Soleimani helping them get rid of ISIS/DASH, but then when he was no longer of use to them, Trump decided to murder him, sort of like abandoning the Kurds and one of their leaders being murdered by ISIS who Turkey let run free to fight the Kurds after trump abandoned the Kurds. it goes on and on and it is tiring. The U.S.A. was once a great country. Now not so much. its run by a bunch of ignorant, self important corrupt idiots led by a lying, cheating, orange buffoon, who would prefer its citizens died from a lack of health care and is fine with hundreds of thousands of people being disenfranchised and appoints judges to the federal bench who barely understand the law. No its not the great country of democracy.

  50. 13 says:

    I wonder if the ayatollah Khamenei allows the opposition and the media in Iran to be as critical as the American President is subject to? Too try and compare the actions ,history, track records, urban crime stats of Iran to the USA is beyond reason.
    To compare the suffering of Iranians to the suffering of Americans is stretching beyond reason
    I guess the key is the word reason.

    (Response: In Iran, you CAN be critical of the regime … ONCE. Then you will disappear. h.o)

  51. 13 says:

    More reasonable comparisons . Lies. I have a bigger crowd than you do. We have no idea what happened to the airplane. We killed 176 people oops. Still waiting on Trump to admit that his might not be as big as……..
    The only way to justify these comparisons is to admit that TDS is a curable disease
    apples to apples

  52. BMCQ says:

    Barry – with respect

    Perhaps you do not know who Galloway is but he for sure a Very Evil Man, an Anti Semite, Anti Israel, hates the USA, he hates his own UK, he attacks Democracy on a regular basis, he hates everything you and I believe in, he has been fully discredited and in fact he was Banned from his own Labour Party .

    Galloway is also a Political opportunist who will do anything to endear himself to the Radical Element and he is a WHORE for Radical Islam .

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIOpM2ZbEqw

    I have actually spoken with Galloway and I three times when I asked him “Does he believe Israel has the Right to Exist”, he refused to answer . from there it went into a shouting match and that was it . Galloway is a Pig of a Man and he is a Clear and Present Danger to Democracy .

    As to your point about DJT criticizing the Intelligence Services ?

    Let’s be honest, Media a high percentage of the Great Unwashed everywhere probably including yourself and DJT ALL criticized U.S., UK, other Intelligence Assets, Bush 43, Blair and others when it was determined that WMD did NOT exist in Iraq .

    Is that not true ? YOU found yourself in agreement with Trump, did YOU not ?

    DJT also stated that Obama Intelligence Assets were Spying on his Campaign, they used false information to acquire FISA Warrants, they spied on Carter Page, The Steel Dossier was used “Fake”, Strozk, Page, Comey, Clapper, Brennen, McCabe, all CNN Stooges, McCabe may go to jail, so many others in the FBI lied and falsely used lies to investigat and plotted against the Trump Campaign, correct ?

    No wonder Trump questioned their fairness and accused them of Cheating , would you not have done the same thing ?

    Would YOU have trusted the FBI the CIA under the same circumstances ?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/10/us/politics/fbi-fisa-court.html

    AS to Trump accepting Intelligence from sources today ?

    Perhaps he feels that the DOJ has improved and cleaned much of the Malignant Dishonesty that the Intelligence Community was infected with, you will of course admit that anything can be fixed and improved would you not ?

    Intelligence Communities of any Country need to EARN the Trust, and they must be beyond Reproach, they must NOT have an Agenda and it is obvious to me the U.S. Intelligence community Lied, were unfair, cheater, and caused much Harm to honest, Citizens going about their Business as guaranteed in any Democracy .

    Let’s hope the U.S. Intelligence Community is now running the way it should, not how it ran under President Obama, Loretta Lynch, HRC, and Eric Holder . Notice how that Loretta Lynch Sweats every time she is interviewed ?

    Then of course there is this you might find of interest . Please give this some thought

    https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-51084619/iran-students-refuse-to-walk-over-us-and-israeli-flags

    There were many different Media pieces on this but I intentionally chose the BBC piece because I was quite critical of them in the Biased BBC Subject of Harveys last Blog Post Topic .

    One never knows, perhaps the BBC are already taking notice of BoJo Conservatives and they have chose to be Pro Active and plan to report more fairly hoping to correct their Anti Israel Bias .

    Then perhaps they saw Harvey’s BBC Bias Blog Topic and they are making corrections based on our comments .

    Either way the Iran Supreme Leader and His Minions are in Deep Trouble and they now have ALL of the Free World against them .

    Changes are Coming and the Good People or Iran deserve as much change as they can get .

  53. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, see you back here on the topic in one yr. Lets see what changes have come to Iran. the only change I see coming to Iran is the U.S.A. bombing it and declaring war. the current leaders will still be there. the protests in Iran are because the people can’t get what they need or want and that is not the fault of the leadership, its the American sanctions. Not all of Europe is happy about that either, but until they develop a banking system which is a work around, things will remain the same. the real change they need is for the U.S.A. to remove the sanctions, so they can get on with life.

  54. G. Barry Stewart says:

    What do we have here?
    “Iraqi PM: Trump Asked Me to Mediate With Iran Then Assassinated My Guest”

    This could knock down a few walls, in getting to the truth behind Soleimani’s assassination. No wonder Iraq is furious with Trump and wants U.S. troops out.

    https://www.anti-empire.com/iraqi-pm-trump-asked-me-to-mediate-with-iran-then-assassinated-my-guest/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=socialnetwork&fbclid=IwAR0RjxsxBJRalmoOkCIygKE_bMkXU_s8YwhOHAof0M49162S011-tRBNASo

  55. BMCQ says:

    I am quite sure that if the claims made by “Anti – Empire” were factual we might get confirmation from several other sources from many different countries, even the TRUMP Hating Media like CNN, MSNBC, WaPo, ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, BBC, CBC, Global, the Guardian, and so many more from the EU, and other “Anti – Trump” Media Orgs .

    https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/01/07/iraq-backs-away-threats-expel-u-s-troops/

    The actual story claimed and quoted in “Anti – Empire” cannot be confirmed anywhere
    else so I would really question the authenticity .

    The story of the Iraq Parliament expelling the U.S. Troops was nothing more than a Temporary Leader feeding Pablum to the Jihadist Population within the country .

    I may be mistaken but when I see how Iraq and Afghanistan seem to have made absolutely NO Progress towards Human Rights for Women, LGBTQ, Minority Religions and Ethnicities, and the way Afghanistan has once again become the Largest Growing Nations for Heroin Poppy it might be time to abandon both countries .

    Yes, I realize it is most complex but with Drone Technology, with Ground Surveillance by Israell and those native to both countries that do not like Taliban or other Oppressive Regime’s and Groups it might be time .

    The Drones are more than capable of keeping down Taliban Camps and destroying Poppy Crops amongst many other problems that must be dealt with .

    As an interventionist and someone that once disagreed with Trump about getting out of Afghanistan and Iraq I would not have said this five years ago but perhaps it is time to discuss a pullout .

    I also believe that the Iraq Borders should be redrawn into three Regions/Countries that all share in the Oil . Of course thee needs to be a NATO or Re-structured UN Security Force to ensure safety and flow of oil to be shared but I am sure that can be managed . The costs to NATO or the re-structured UN can be funded out of the proceeds of Oil .

    The three Countries Borders could be drawn up along ethnic guidelines, Kurdistan, Sunniville, and Shiaville for want of better names . Of course we would need to keep the Turks and the Kurds on their own side of the Border .

  56. 13 says:

    Harvey, somewhere up the page BMCQ attached a Nat Post article By Conrad Black.
    The article is well written and completely ON TOPIC. I wonder if you might care to treat that piece like a comment and write a reply.

    (Response: Sorry … Already have my next topic written … and then travelling again … it’s too cold and I’d rather be cruising! But here’s the link again for anyone who wants to read it: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/conrad-black-the-world-is-a-better-place-without-soleimani h.o)

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