Stanley Park Vehicle “Review” a Farce … That Could Block Vehicle Access for Months More!

I told you so! The barring of ALL vehicles from Stanley Park’s roads and parking lots, 24 hours a day, seven days a week …. without ANY accommodation at all for those who NEED to drive …. was just another attack on cars by the far left anti-car extremists … NOT just a “temporary” move related to Covid-19.

And just like under other radical dictatorship regimes throughout history … most of the public fell for the propaganda!

First they barred the handicapped and the frail elderly from Park Board parking lots at/near their properties … and no one stopped them; then, they shut down all practical access to Stanley Park by the handicapped and the frail elderly …. and no one raised a peep; so now, the emboldened extremists in control at the Vancouver Park Board are about to step up their anti-car campaign … and this time, picnicking FAMILIES may be their next victims.

Stanley Park’s roadways were “temporarily” totally closed to motorists April 8 … the excuse being it was in keeping with provincial Covid-19 health restrictions to keep crowds down and people closer to home.

But proof of the Park Board’s total hypocrisy on the matter was clearly apparent when the Board, at the same time as it barred cars for Covid reasons, EXPANDED road, sidewalk and seawall access throughout the entire park for thousands more walkers, hikers, joggers, skateboarders and cyclists.

Those who are fit and able bodied were welcomed by the tens of thousands: while the modern-day extreme left’s “undesirables” … those who need vehicles to get themselves and their families around …were excluded.

So much for the Park Board just observing/promoting Covid stay-close-to-home and crowd-limiting rules!

And most of the public … and all of the media … for months lapped it up!

Of course, the barricades against vehicles were highly popular with those BENEFITTING from the discrimination. Isn’t that always the case with “elites” who get/enjoy special treatment, while others are restricted/banned are well out of sight!

But recently, the mask hiding the anti-car extremists’ real intentions slipped.

Well after BC moved into Phase Two and we saw the re-opening of restaurants, businesses, shops, fitness facilities etc (even provincial parks), Stanley Park’s roads and facilities still remain closed to vehicles.

How can they justify, stall and continue to deny access for tens of thousands of park users who NEED vehicles to get around?

Here’s how they’re doing it:

Next Monday, the Board will “consider” a motion to “explore the long-term feasibility of reducing motor vehicle traffic in Stanley Park, including but not restricted to, reducing roadways to single lanes while maintaining access to the park.”

It calls for “consultation” with staff, bureaucrats, stakeholders and the “community at large” and “green transportation options” for all park users, including those with mobility challenges.

This, of course, will take MONTHS!

Kudos to CTV News at Six for breaking the news Tuesday of the Motion to come before the Board next week. And great to see Global’s Newshour go after the story Wednesday too.

The city … and its citizens … are starting to wake up to what is happening … and hopefully more than just the cycling, jogging and hiking enthusiasts will speak up Monday for those who can’t make it to Brockton Point or Prospect Point or around the entire park on their legs!

Why, even now, in June … are the roads around Stanley Park remaining barricaded?

And how can they even try to justify that continuing as BC gets ready to enter Phase Three of re-opening within the next couple of weeks?

What’s happening with the Vancouver Aquarium, the Prospect Point Cafe and The Teahouse, the concessions, the horse drawn trolley that many tourists, especially those with mobility challenges, love?

Shame!

Stanley Park was NEVER intended and MUST NOT remain a West Enders’ only local park.

The public MUST stand up and DEMAND the fascist-style anti-car dictatorship now in charge at the Park Board OPEN UP THE ROADS around Stanley Park NOW for those who drive.

Because, with the warming weather, there are now NEW victims to their exclusionary policy: FAMILIES who used to be able to picnic in the park’s hundreds of picnic spaces.

Surely, not even the anti-car extremists at the current Board/offices expect families with children to haul all the food, beverages, blankets, chairs, games etc. needed for a day deep into the park on foot or by bus!

Or maybe they want families … just like the handicapped and the elderly … kept out of their elitist enclave too?

The roads around Stanley Park MUST be opened to vehicles NOW!

Any excuse (they’re really good at those) that the road is just being kept closed to vehicles because there is a study underway and nothing should change pending its outcome will only hurt thousands more citizens: this time entire families … ALL of whom pay taxes to develop, support AND access the park as well.

As for the motion itself: the deck is stacked, the “fix” is IN, with three Greens and two COPE on the seven member Board, the anti-car motion will pass … and the outcome … months down the road … is a foregone conclusion.

It’s all a FARCE!

Before the ink dries on the Meeting Minutes, this Board will advocate/authorize spending MILLIONS of taxpayers’ dollars to install permanent concrete lane separators and/or vehicle barriers throughout the entire 405-hectare park.

Cost will prove no object to advancing their anti-car agenda … just raise taxes again!

Somehow that doesn’t ever seem to be a problem for the GREEN and COPE types … at the Park Board or their allies at Vancouver City Hall.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: Follow @harveyoberfeld on Twitter for First Alerts to all new topics on this BC-based Blog.)

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42 Responses to Stanley Park Vehicle “Review” a Farce … That Could Block Vehicle Access for Months More!

  1. 13 says:

    So the Parks Board will be meeting to look at greatly reducing vehicle traffic in Stanley Park. Im pretty sure BMCQ predicted such a move. How do the left wing HUB activists get away with this crap? They are activists. The cause disruption. The only way seniors and disabled will be heard will be to act like HUB. Unless those two groups block traffic or cause some sort of disruption. If the HUB people get their way I will cherish my memories of years and years spent in Stanley Park. I have no need to set foot in Vancouver may they rot in the hell they are creating.

    (Response: They get away with the way activists/extremists have been getting away with it for years in municipal government: they show up at the polls; they will show up at Park Board meeting Monday; they will push hard to advance their agenda …while most citizens stay home and silent. h.o)

  2. e.a.f. says:

    That leaves me barred from Stanley Park for life along with the sibling. In my opinion the Park’s board isn’t interested in having families use the park either for picnics, etc. For many, over the decades, Stanley Park was a great way to have a “mini vacation” by the ocean because you could take your food, etc. However, once people aren’t able to take picnic baskets, etc. they will be forced to use the food stands. (expect food trucks to be given entrance) . The Parks board needs to go. Perhaps its time to declare Stanley Park a health resource for all. Clean ocean air and trees, its good for your physical and mental health.

    To spent money at this time to prevent cars from going into the park is wasteful. All levels of government are stretched to the limit to provide services to the public. Barriers to the park, not a service. Tax dollars ought not to be used for this. Next Parks Board might just have to remove them.

    The Parks Board has an agenda, but I’m not even sure its keeping cars and the less able out of it. Perhaps the parks board wants the commercial enterprises we have all enjoyed over the decades out of the park also. They may not be willing to go, but if they have no business, they’ll leave or perhaps they want others to run those businesses. What ever it is, the Parks Board needs to forget about their “dream” our Nightmare and leave the Park alone. WE all have wonderful memories of Stanley Park, some of us would like to go a few more times before we’re dead.

    I’m waiting for the Park’s Board to declare a fee to get into the park as their next step……

    (Response: One of the great ironies of the far left GREENS/COPE ruling at the Park Board and at City Hall is how their policies are turning Vancouver more and more into a city for the very rich and very elite: NOT working or middle class families. Think of the Stanley Park barricades: it favours residents of the West End and Coal Harbour … hardly working class neighbourhoods! And keeps middle class and lower income families away. And when the NDP/GREENS/COPE types at City Hall back them up by restricting/reducing parking for many blocks near/around the beaches/park …that just reinforces the exclusivity for the privileged and keeps those working families away. Yet, in their hate-on for cars, they don’t seem to be aware that hose they are hurting most are the families and poor working class they think they represent! Ironic! h.o)

  3. D. M. Johnston says:

    It is to be predicted, those entitled right-wing higher purpose persons have made Stanley park, the West End park and bugger-off the rest of you!

    HUB has long been bought off by TransLink (they receive funding) and the former Vision(less) City council. Current Mayor Dithers, who evidently needs a pricey PR service to make announcements has become somewhat a joke.

    Not one politician has the moral fortitude to curb HUB’s silliness and anyways, it all plays into the so called “Green” agenda.

    Vancouver has become a rather silly old joke, somewhat what the old “Polish” jokes have become, by electing an utterly useless mayor; the most unGreen of Green Councillors and Parks board types, where there war on the car is more than a joke, it has become a war against the elderly (we don’t want them spoiling the view); the mobility impaired (tut tut we don’t want to see those); and the disabled (3rd rate people who soil the ground which is ours).

    I don’t go to Vancouver much anymore because I am deathly afraid that utter venal stupidity is far more dangerous than covid-19.

    (Response: Good points, but I sure would not call Greens or COPE “right wing”! LOL! Mind you, go far enough left around the circle and you do become closer to the extreme right when it comes to ruling like fascists and trampling the idea of sharing/accommodating minorities. h.o)

  4. BMCQ says:

    Almost total agreement Harvey .

    eaf

    What everyone that reads or actually participates by posting on this Blog needs to FINALLY GET THROUGH THEIR HEADS is this whole Stanley Park restriction of automobiles, much of the Bike Lane Netowrk, and the other restrictions on bridges and other auto traffic routes which will soon include the destruction of the Georgia Viaducts is he FACT that this whole movement is about the “WAR ON THE CAR”, and nothing less .

    Why is it so god damn difficult to get it through your heads that Facts are Facts ?
    Why can you not look at this and “Read the Tea Leaves’, we are not splitting the atom here . Why does everything need to be speculated on and wondered about ?

    Those Leftist, Activist, Know Nothing Vancouver Mayor, Council, and the Parks Board care nothing about physically challenged, oldsters, young families that have difficulties navigating Vancouver without a car, they would not and do not care abut their own parents or grandparents who have difficulties because those (perhaps) loved ones with mobility issues are not as important as that “War on the Car” .

    Those same Mensa Members who have no really accomplished much in their own personal lives do not give a fig about cutting up the viaducts so the Ambulance/Paramedics might have a much more difficult time getting from Davie and Denman St. to the new St. Pauls at Main and Terminal and People Kind may die .

    Not to worry though at least the Evil Automobile will be hindered in it’s quest to ruin People Kind forever .

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

    They are 100% aware of what they are doing Harvey, the fact is they just do not care, ideology ahead of common sense and they might as well put that on their next campaign signs .

    ” Ideology ahead of Common Sense”

    Kind of has a nice ring to it don’t you think ?

    Again, this has nothing to do with favouring those that own condos in English Bay or Coal Harbour, it is the War on the car, you could have every single Condo in the West End and Coal harbour full of once Homeless Drug Addled Repeat Prolific Offenders and the “War on the Car” would not change one little bit .

    The Mayor, the Council, and the Parks Board have nothing in their “Headlights” other than the Dream of “Killing the Car Culture” and they will stop at nothing no matter how unfair it is to seniors, physically challenged, young families or anyone else that requires the car to navigate Vancouver .

    Time for the NPA to declare “War on the Parks Board” and promise to implement that promise in their platform for the future Vancouver Civic Election, I believe it is about three years away .

    I strongly believe that promise and move alone would help get the NPA Elected and it would return them from the wilderness .

    (Response: I believe part of the way they away with it … other than devotion to their own biases/ideology …is that they can always count on their activist allies … the bike lobby, the anti-car activists, dedicated Green/COPE partisans … to show up at Park Board meetings to back each and every attack on the car and get lots of air time by the media attending saying how wonderful it is benefit, even if it’s by taking away others’ rights … although they don’t put it quite that way. LOL! While those who end up being the victims of the war-on-car decisions largely stay home … and silent. h.o)

  5. BMCQ says:

    D.M. Johnston

    Up until recently I have lived in Vancouver proper my whole life and spent most of my younger life between the Waldorf Hotel on Hastings down through the DES, into the West End, and finally toward UBC .

    I built three houses in Vancouver, owned many more and even own properties in the West End, there is absolutely NO clear thinking individual that knows anything about Vancouver that would attempt to sell Cope, the Visionites, the Greens, or any of the other non NPA Mayor Council, or Parks Board as ALLIES of the “Right Wing Higher Purpose People”, those same Activist Leftist Mayor, Council and Parks Board “HATE”
    absolutely everything about successful people, to suggest otherwise is simply delusional . It is no different than some here attempting to convince the rest that the origin of Covid 19 being china was only a rumour, can you imagine .

    Somehow you need to convince yourself that Mayor Stewart, his Vancouver Council Minions and the Activist Leftist Park Board Members are NOT Allies of the successful people of the West End or the West Side of Vancouver, they hate everything that successful people represent, they would take everything they could from successful people, they want everything you have whether you be hard working wealthy or whether you be hard working and middle class or whether you be hard working and just getting . They hate us all and everything we represent .

    Just because you wish hard or imagine something does not make it fact .

    As DBW once famously said, “Now I am done” .

  6. NVG says:

    IANAV

    13 wrote: I have you no need to set foot in Vancouver may they rot in the hell they are creating.

    e.a.f. Resides on Vancouver Island

    D.M.J. wrote: I don’t go to Vancouver much anymore

    How is it that the three above, 4 including me, should be commenting on what is taking place in Vancouver’s Stanley Park?

    Other than Harvey, where are the voices of Vancouverites on this blog? I say this because Harvey’s presentation, writings, of local issues is a far cry from …. how he presents issues at the Federal level. How is it Harvey, that you condemn Quebec journalists for not showing respect to Canada’s Prime
    Minister Justin Trudeau because they call him Mister Trudeau?

    Where is the respect for the Office of the Vancouver Park Board Commissioners? You may dislike them, personally, however, you could be more subtle by addressing them as Mister or Miss.

    (Response: Absolutely…if I were interviewing them in their official capacity, I would DEFINTELY call them Mr. Ms. or Commissioner etc. Interestingly in all journalistic style books/instructions I ever worked under … print or TV … the rule was to refer to any leader by their title in the first reference in a news STORY. But I’m aware of no such “rule” or guide applying to opinion pieces, columnists, cartoons and, today, Social Websites or Blogs. h.o)

  7. nonconfidencevote says:

    I had a rather humorous conversation today about the “bike only” roads in Stanley Park.
    Seems a friend was out with his wife driving a few weekends ago and didnt know about the road closures.
    He drove toward the park road that was closed and saw cones narrowing into one lane with a guard in a parked car…..he slowed down and rolled through as the guard sat mesmerized with a text on his phone.
    My friend proceeded to drive around the park getting angry stares from cyclists….?
    “Whats their problem?” he asked his wife.
    They stopped at one viewpoint , took some pics and proceeded on…eventually getting to the other end of the Park where the police were waiting….
    “What are YOU DOING!?” asked the officer.
    “I’m out driving with my wife. Is there a problem?”, he responded.
    “Stanley Park is OFF LIMITS to traffic!”
    “Really? I had no idea! There werent any signs and the guard was busy texting when we drove through the entrance.”

    A stern warning from Dudley Dooright and off he went without a ticket.

    (Response: Hilarious! Surprised the Park Board didn’t insist the guard spend his shift sitting on a bike … a green bike of course … instead of in a car. h.o)

  8. nvg says:

    https://vancouver.ca/parks-recreation-culture/vanconnect-park-issues.aspx

    Report park issues

    Improve your community. Report an issue and watch it get fixed.

  9. DBW says:

    Harvey I am another non-Vancouverite commenting here. As I have pointed out before, I have no problem with your point of view; a complete ban of cars in Stanley Park would not be a good idea. But this is what I am reading. According to the Vancouver Sun, Parks Board Commission John Irwin

    “said he isn’t trying to ban cars from the park. The motion calls on park board staff to see what can be done, including allocating one lane for bikes and one lane for cars.
    ‘We should make a move to do two things: limit automobile access, and cover off the issues of people with mobility challenges to make sure people can still access the park.’”

    https://vancouversun.com/news/proposal-to-reduce-car-traffic-in-stanley-park-draws-ire-of-driver

    And this is what you said in response to me last week

    “I had (and have) no objection to, say, dividing the road with one lane for cars and one for extra cyclists, joggers, etc. or even reserving the entire road for cyclists/joggers in the mornings on maybe odd-numbered dates and opening it up to vehicles in the afternoon or on even-numbered dates.

    How are you at odds with Irwin?

    (Response: Not much ..except HOW this all came about. As I said over and over, I think dividing the road to accommodate ALL could work…although not sure it’s needed in rainy and winter months. My problem has always been the exclusionary, discriminatory, fascist-style TOTAL ban on cars from the start: no compromise; no accommodation. Disgraceful! They could have avoided it all, instead of exacerbating the problem, right from the start… with plastic lane dividers. Now we will witness the farcical motion (which will pass) and then a whole “study” process (how much will they waste on that???) that will conclude it is feasible, then a million or so will be spent doing it yada, yada, yada. My only concern is if the anti-car fascists will use the study peiod to STALL opening the park for months more …keeping not only the handicapped, elderly from circulating in the park, but even families simply wishing to have a self-distancing picnic in the parks hundreds of picnic spaces. Even today…well into Phase Two reopening and approaching Phase Three reopening, the road remains closed to ALL cars. Disgraceful … and more people should speak up and DEMAND it be reopened so ALL can share/enjoy. h.o)

  10. 13 says:

    @nvg. Ive outlined my connections to Stanley Park on an earlier blog. These connections give me all the right I need to be concerned. Your using HO as the only one allowed to be concerned sounds good but if I need to go to Horseshoe Bay to catch a ferry and the Iron Workers is closed due to an MVA Stanley Park now becomes my only option. The if you dont live there you cant complain is a very weak position. As far as respecting the off ice of locally elected politicians? Guilty as charged. I dont respect what Vancouver politicians have done to the city or the park. Unlike Trudeau whom I despise but would not insult him I am as I said guilty of a double standard.

    (Response: You’re being too kind. Just think what the world would be like, not to mention the future of dialogue in the entire world, if the policy ” if you don’t live there you cant complain” was actually in effect: the dictators of the world, the cops who kill innocent people, the corporations that exploit and poison populations in so many places for profit, and, yes, Parks Boards that trample people’s rights and waste millions of taxpayers” dollar to do it … would all rejoice. But thankfully, there ARE people who care, who speak out … even when the affront or the disgraceful action doesn’t affect them directly …or happens where they personally do not live. h.o)

  11. e.a.f. says:

    NVG, Yes, these days I live on Vancouver Island., but I spend 2 to 3 months a year in Greater Vancouver, usually Richmond. My friends, medical professionals all in Vancouver. I still shop there, spend money there, lived there for 30 years. In my opinion being Canadians or residents of Canada we all have the right to speak out about Stanley Park, its a Canadian treasure. When there are changes planned for Banff, we hear howls from all over the country, if people aren’t happy about it. Same for other National Parks or areas of interest to others in the country. Its how people build momentum for their causes. Many may not live in Vancouver now, but they may return. We all have the right to be able to use Stanley Park. We all have the right to enter the City of Vancouver or any other city in the country.

    If we believe something is wrong in our own town, province, country, or any place on earth we have the right to speak out. Its our right as human beings. If we followed the idea you don’t get to speak out if its not your “region”, guess we all ought to shut up about executions in Saudi Arabia, human rights abuses in China, child slavery, child sexual abuse in other parts of the world, burning the Amazon, starvation in Africa, killing civilians in the middle east, etc. This planet is not that big. Some times if the numbers are great enough we do have an impact on things in other parts of the world. In my opinion that is a good thing.

  12. nvg says:

    13 wrote: “… but if I need to go to Horseshoe Bay to catch a ferry and the Iron Workers is closed due to an MVA Stanley Park now becomes my only option.”

    Which means you’re traveling through the park, on the Highway, and not stopping, paying to park, to enjoy the amenities that the Park has to offer. Its just another route for you to get from Point A to B, and you’re in a hurry.

  13. Marge says:

    Of course the fix is in. It’s always in. Have you noticed that the sanctimonious left always alters truth to fit their agenda?

    Edited..off topic)

    Why would any sane person believe a word that comes out of any politician’s mouth? Truth is stranger than fiction these days, don’t you think?

    Response: Hope you will sign the petition: https://www.change.org/p/vancouver-park-board-keep-stanley-park-open-for-all?recruiter=. h.o)

  14. max avelli says:

    GET OFF MY LAWN, YOU KIDS!!

    All caps is a bad stylistic choice. Makes you look like a screamer.

    Just saying.

    Get over it. You have beaten this dead horse before, over and over again. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

    BTW, do you rely on a walker or wheelchair?

    If not, try a bike. Or a walk.

    Where are you AGT?

    (Response: GLAD to say my position is catching on with the REAL people: there’s now a petition someone is organizing on Change.Org to Keep Stanley Park Open to ALL. Here’s the link to sign and support: https://www.change.org/p/vancouver-park-board-keep-stanley-park-open-for-all?recruiter=. )

  15. 13 says:

    The illustration re two routes to get to horseshoe bay doesnt set well with nvg.
    Okay then my dad would load his dad in the family car ( missing a leg lost in wwi) He would load his mom in the same car and her wheel chair in the trunk. ( bad hips and other mobility issues.) My brother and I and my mom would round out the load (6 just in case you cant count). Destination was Prospect Point. The reason we went to Prospect Point was they served soft ice cream and my grand dad was very fond of that particular treat. NVG if you could have seen how happy that little outing made my grandparents, my parents and my brother and I you just might understand. Maybe you would not.

  16. nvg says:

    I’ve always been dismayed by news journalists, in general, who present facts, mention a certain report (created with government funding) and never provide a link to that document so that readers can determine for themselves what was actually written and more.

    Harvey wrote in his Post:
    “Kudos to CTV News at Six for breaking the news Tuesday of the Motion to come before the Board next week. And great to see Global’s Newshour go after the story Wednesday too.”

    And this:
    Next Monday, the Board will “consider” a motion to “explore the long-term feasibility of reducing motor vehicle traffic in Stanley Park, including but not restricted to, reducing roadways to single lanes while maintaining access to the park.”

    It calls for “consultation” with staff, bureaucrats, stakeholders and the “community at large” and “green transportation options” for all park users, including those with mobility challenges.

    Here’s the link to CTV:
    https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1970071

    Stanley Park Motion starts at (video) @01:14/02:32

    Therefore be it resolved:

    A. THAT Vancouver Park Board staff explore the long term feasibility of reducing motor vehicle traffic in Stanley Park, including but not restricted to, reducing roadways to single lanes while maintaining access to the park;

    B. Further THAT consultation include the Stanley Park Intergovernmental Working Group, as well as park partners, stakeholders, and the community at large; and

    C. THAT Park Board staff explore green transportation options, to and throughout the park, to support equitable access for all park users, including those with mobility challenges.

    Equitable …. fair and impartial

    (Response: Sure … the Vancouver Park Board …as fair and impartial as Fox News. h.o)

  17. nvg says:

    So far the focus here, the blog, has been on ELECTED officials and those who work for them.

    There are others who have a long history of Stanley Park before it became a ‘park’

    https://vancouver.ca/parks-recreation-culture/reconciliation-our-approach.aspx

    Stanley Park Intergovernmental Working Group

    The Stanley Park Intergovernmental Committee is a major source of direction in our approach.

    Brought together to work with the three Nations towards a long-term plan for Stanley Park, the group took on the task of learning to work together and developing tools to transparently share information.

    The committee is made up of:

    Traditional and elected leaders of the three Nations
    Park Board staff
    Elected Park Board commissioners.

    It is overseeing the development of a comprehensive plan for Stanley Park that will ensure the park’s protection, restoration, and resiliency for the next century.

  18. BMCQ says:

    Harvey – response to nvm

    Or CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, NY Times, WAPO, L.A. Times, BBC, CBC, and the Dozens and Dozens of other PC, SJW, Elite, Liberal Media Outlets that Fill Up the Swamp that lie and cheat to get the narrative they promote to convince the “Great Unwashed” that anything Conservative is Evil .

  19. DBW says:

    This from a CTV story.

    “What we’re asking is for our park board staff to look at ways of reducing, NOT ELIMINATING (my emphasis) but reducing, motor vehicle traffic in the park,” said commissioner Stuart Mackinnon. “One of the suggestions that we have made that could be looked at is reducing Park Drive from two lanes to one lane and using the other lane for more active transportation like bicycles, skateboards, that sort of thing.”

    Mackinnon said he wants park board staff to work with the City of Vancouver Persons with Disabilities Advisory Committee to ensure any concerns about access to the park can be addressed

    https://bc.ctvnews.ca/commissioners-present-motion-to-study-permanently-reducing-traffic-in-stanley-park-1.4966547

    You have said you might be OK with single lane traffic and they are including the Disabilities Advisory Committee to ensure access which has been your biggest concern.

    When I asked you in my previous comment what the problem was your response was “HOW this all came about.”

    Well how did this come about. In response to a pandemic they kept cars out and you can debate that all you want, but in the petition you are asking people to sign is this line

    “The temporary and SENSIBLE (my emphasis) closure of the park due to Covid-19”

    I really don’t see any tyrannical, fascist, dictatorial uncaring commissioners. And when nvg makes a similar point you write him off by comparing the Board to Fox News.

    I am an outsider, Harvey, this won’t affect me at all. I am just looking to learn through a honest discussion. As I have pointed out, I believe that a complete banning of cars would be a bad idea, but I don’t see any of that and I certainly don’t get the name calling which I have never seen you use at least with the same vehemence against any other politician of any stripe including Xi, Putin, and Kim.

    What is your best case/worst case scenario for Monday’s meeting. Would you be OK with the parking lots reopening with single lane traffic through the summer while the board studies the ramification of that decision? (As an outsider, that would be my choice.)

    (Response: From our various exchanges (which I quite enjoy) I know you are not naive, which makes me all the more surprsied that you so willingly swallow the Koolaid the Park Board has served up on this issue. Here are just the MAJOR lies/deceptions I’ve tallied: you support “temporary and SENSIBLE (my emphasis) closure of the park due to Covid-19”, but that’s what was done in OTHER cities … parks were closed to ALL for weeks, then opened to ALL, with safe distancing in effect. Not in Vancouver… the parks/beaches/roads were ONLY closed to those who needed cars to get to/around them … not to walkers, hikers, joggers and cyclists. Totally unfair, discriminatory, exclusionary. Second, the “reason” given was Covid-19 and Dr. Henry’s Phase One total shutdown of any public gatherings, minglings etc. (again, unless you were a cyclist, jogger, walker, hiker) ..BUT when BC moved into Phase Two …and those tightest restrictions were LIFTED everywhere in the province, the Stanley Park road remained closed!! Even provincial parks were re-opened to day use … come by CAR. NOW, as BC prepares to move into Phase Three … the roads remain CLOSED … and the REAL excuse has surfaced: what the car haters really want is an opportunity to advance their GREEN agenda! Aha! The Covid rationale was just an excuse for a partisan, ideological attack on cars …and those who need them. Now, like some foreign power that has illegally seized land, they’re offering to give part of it back …. and think we should all rejoice at that. As I have stated many times, I don’t ideologically object to sharing the road, or for that matter cycling, jogging (fortunately I’m still a pretty good walker!) but I hate to see people snookered by conniving politicians who have an agenda and push it through by hook and by crook ..even hurting or holding hostage tens of thousands of innocent handicapped, elderly or now even families who merely want the same rights as others …access to the park. Hope you’ll sign the petition for the park to be open to ALL: https://www.change.org/p/vancouver-park-board-keep-stanley-park-open-for-all?recruiter= h.o)

  20. 13 says:

    I think that referencing the City of Vancouver’s Website might not give a very objective POV on anything that their masters do.
    Almost as far fetched as claiming the Vancouver Parks Board is as unbiased as CNN

  21. nvg says:

    H.O. wrote:
    (Response: Sure … the Vancouver Park Board …as fair and impartial as Fox News. h.o)

    Fox News? The one owned by Rudolph Murdock? THE Rudolph Murdock the owner of UK’s News International:

    the paper’s phone hacking activities were limited to celebrities, politicians, and members of the British royal family, in July 2011 it was revealed that the phones of murdered schoolgirl Milly Dowler, relatives of deceased British soldiers, and victims of the 7 July 2005 London bombings had also been hacked. (Wikipedia)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal

    THAT Fox News owner(s)? How can you possibility make the jump to portraying the Vancouver Park Board to FOX news?

  22. D. M. Johnston says:

    My third attempt to write something that would make sense of this. Here goes!

    From an overview in the past few days, I see that HUB, the bicycle lobby group, is behind this and HUB has become a taxpayer paid group to be wary of.

    HUB has their own agenda and they have many councilors and Parks Board members in their pocket. They are subsidized by both the city of Vancouver and TransLink.

    From my encounters with them, the city and TransLink have used HUB to promote this $4.2 billion transit plans, including the now $3 billion, 5.8km Broadway subway, which will not take a car off the road.

    Banning cars out of Stanley park is payback for the good job done by this very pampered and taxpayer funded pressure group.

    HUB has one objective and only one objective and that is to make the bicycle supreme transit mode in Vancouver and just look out if you are elderly, or have mobility issues or intellectual difficulties, because they just do not care. If you can’t use a bike, they have “0” interest.

    The Greens on council are not very Green at all, but a faux Green and it was by the leg work by HUB that got them elected. and by god they will give them Stanley park to be reelected.

    This is not a left/right issue, it is a crass political deal, by a growing unnelectable group of politicians, hoping to get HUB’s political support to win reelection.

    Do not for one second underrate this group, they have political savvy and political friends all through several political parties.

    There will be no fair and impartial review of the auto ban as Vancouver is notorious being not fair or impartial.

    Banning cars is paying a political debt and pandering to a political savvy group to get the vote out ion the next civic election.

    (Response: I don’t know much about HUB and since I’m retired (LOL!) I don’t plan to spend time investigating/exposing their influence etc. ..that’s for the “working” press. I judge by what I see in terms of ACTIONS … what governments/boards do to/for the ordinary citizenry. And at both the Park Board and City Hall level these days it dos not impress me at all. As for the Greens elected to both, I believe they are doing a great disservice to the Green brand, that will really hurt the party provincially at least as more and more become educated to what their REAL agendas are and how uncompromising, unaccommodating and oppressive they are … at least from my perspective. h.o)

  23. BMCQ says:

    nvg

    Bitter Leftist Activist Politicians like former Vancouver Mayor Mumbles Robertson , Meggs, Kwan, Townsend, Davies, Stewart, Swanson, Green, Visionite, and NDP Vancouver Parks Board Members past and present have long played the Shell Game that seems to fool citizens and tax payers for well over a decade now .

    I have real estate in four B.C. Municipalities and I have watched property taxes increase beyond control in Vancouver and Burnaby . Surrey and Langley have not been as bad, I must admit that, those two municipalities have shown much more restraint and much better fiscal management.

    Far too often going back to Mayor Mumbles terms in office the City of Vancouver has many times floated increases in Property Taxes that were quite substantial, sort of a “Trial Balloon” one might say .

    Media reports those proposed increases of say 7% and then there is a bit of push back by residents and business as there should be because civic services never get better, there are fewer services for streets, parks, and everything else including waste, clean up, swimming pools, and much more within the civic services and parks board .

    Each and every time they “Float” a Property tax increase of say 5,6,7,8,9, or even 10 percent and the “Great unwashed” of any income level push back the city then relents and drops that increase back from the proposed say 8.5% to about 5%, EXACTLY where the Mayor, Council, and Parks Board wanted to be in the first place .
    As I stated it is basically a ‘Shell Game” and the Mayors and council know very well the tax Payers many of whom are renters who are drastically affected by increases in PT will go the the “Bait’ just like the Wide Mouth Bass .

    That Mayor and Council are getting exactly what they want and YOU are none the wiser ! How stupid can the public in general be ?

    In the meantime Government creep, Waste, Bloat, increases in staff, benefits, pensions, and the rest continue to rise higher than an Elon Musk Rocket .

    Not one person in media seems to ask why the city/parks board even need to increases Property Tax up to 8.5% as there are $ Hundreds of Millions of Dollars flowing into city coffers due to the fact that on top of those increased Property Taxes, parking, and other Fees there are thousands more condo apartments, town houses, and houses being taxed for PT and so much more that in fact increases in Property tax over all should be totally unnecessary . Ask yourself the question, why does the city of Vancouver really require property tax or other fees and taxes increased at all ?

    That example I have just illustrated shows you exactly what “Shell Game” the Vancouver Parks Board is doing/playing with the restriction of the “Hated Auto Traffic” . The Parks Board action and strategy is taken from exactly same play book used by Mayor Mumbles, Mayor Stewart, and their minions .

    The Parks Board starts off by “Banning All Automobile Traffic’ and then it follows up by loosening the total ban to only restricting certain parking and lanes to create a total traffic jam jam of Stanley Park road/auto traffic hoping that mess will encourage people with automobiles to give up, which many will .

    Mission Accomplished and the Great Unwashed will actually for the most part believe they have won something against the Vancouver Parks Board . Tragically the Parks Board and City Council and Mayor Kennedy will all sit back and laugh and declare how once again they made Dunces out of the greater public and tax payer in general . .

    I can hear them all now laughing and slapping each other on the back, SOCIAL DISTANCING OF COURSE, they will be using 6′ long 2 x 4’s with prosthetic gloves on the end so they do not infect one another .

    Please keep in mind though, attending protests, riots, looting or arson celebrations
    and rubbing shoulders and cheeks is acceptable because Antifa said so .

    I see you have posted some critical information about FOX News who are obviously probably worse than Tokyo Rose, I find it absolutely incredible how you managed to not post lies and deception by CNN and other Liberal media outlets, perhaps it just slipped your mind . Never mind, I will do that for you, I assume I am on topic because you were .

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNN_controversies

    Of course you also seemed to forget about some of these .

    https://sharylattkisson.com/2019/11/lessons-from-media-mistake-100-in-the-era-of-trump/

    The NPA have a golden opportunity to unseat the Mayor, council and Parks Board of Vancouver, it is clear that there are hundreds of thousands of residents and business who Mayor Stewart, his council, and the Parks Board do not care about,

    It is time to elect a Mayor and Council, that will work for every single resident/citizen of Vancouver proper, not just a few “Special Interests” People Kind that seem to control the elected officials .

    It is long past time to “Throw the Bums Out” .

    Tax Payers need a group of politicians that treats every single one of us as equals even though our politics may differ from theirs ..

    Almost more important than anything is the need for the newly elected Mayor and council to Abolish the Parks Board, they need to go .

  24. DBW says:

    Do you remember maybe a week ago when I mentioned a podcast dealing with the inability of people to find common ground in a discussion. Well, I am now reading the book by the person who was interviewed on the podcast. Based on what I am reading here, I can see the author’s point.

    I am not making any judgments. We all do this. We begin with an intuition or an emotional response of some kind and then we try to find reasons to support that gut reaction. No amount of reasoning will change a person’s mind until we can deal with the intuition.

    So no matter what I say to you (and I am not even trying to convince you as we agree on the main point of keeping at least some cars in Stanley Park) will change your mind until we deal with your feelings toward the Parks Board. You don’t trust them. You think they are fascist. How can anyone compete with those feelings no matter how rational the arguments in a discussion about traffic in and out of Stanley Park.

    Want more proof. Look at 13’s response to nvg who posted the actual motion from the Vancouver webpage. “I think that referencing the City of Vancouver’s Website might not give a very objective POV on anything that their masters do.”

    If he can’t trust that they have posted the motion correctly or honestly, there is no way he will believe John Irwin when he said we are not looking to ban cars.

    Want more proof. Marge said “Why would any sane person believe a word that comes out of any politician’s mouth?” So it doesn’t matter that Stuart McKinnon said they are not planning to eliminate cars.

    Want more proof, my gut told me that there was no way an elected parks board could be as bad as you made them sound. I thought you were dealing with hyperbole from your very first post. Remember I am just an outside observer seeing what I see and reading what I read with almost zero knowledge of the Parks Board. So nothing you say about the board will be believable until I see it for myself.

    I think this is why I have found this topic interesting.

    Couple of other things Harvey. You might be interested in this site. facebook.com/groups/VanPoli/ The guy that runs this site is the guy who set up the petition. He of course sees the motion the same way you do, but there are some people who kind of see it my way. Pretty reasonable discussion actually. One comment I found interesting was from someone responding to the “what about families who want to have a picnic. How can they bring the two kids, the chairs, the food etc. without a car?” The person didn’t respond the way I might have which is the motion isn’t meant to ban cars. She responded “do what I and the 50% of people in Vancouver who don’t have cars do. We stay home or take the bus.” Interesting. If you want to talk about access for everybody then why just talk about those who need cars.
    How do we give all those people without cars equal access.

    And lastly, don’t expect me to sign a petition especially an online one. Not my style. I would rather phone, attend meetings and campaign.

    Hope all goes well with Monday’s meeting.

    (Response: Why am I so cynical? Because I’ve watched, in some cases, very close up for 50 years now exactly how extremists govern at several levels. I base my opinions/conclusions on ACTIONS not words. We’re not talking about close to center conservative or liberal or left leaning politicians or governments or boards: they are easily identifiable by at least some ability to compromise and accommodate to some extent other points of view. Extremists do NOT accommodate: once given power, they IMPOSE their way…no accommodation, no consideration, no compromises. This current rendition of the GREEN/COPE domiated Vancouver Park Board, from my observations of their ACTIONS, fits perfectly into the extremist category .. and there is no greater proof of that than it is now June 7 … and the roads around Stanley Park are all still closed ..to hell with the handicapped, the frail, the families who need to drive to visit/enjoy … and to hell with the restaurants/businesses that depend on access to Staley Park to pay/feed their employees and their families. Extremists don’t care about their victims …only pushing their agenda… and the extreme GREEN/COPE leftists Park Board, as I see it, fit that perfectly h.o)

  25. 13 says:

    Harvey, I read your reasoned responses to post after post by those that want to as you said guzzle the kool aid. Perhaps troll. In some cases it seems that they may either be on the Vancouver Parks Board or be a family member of be accepting money to muddy the water.
    If some cant see that the people on council in the COV have an agenda that could easily be titled War on Car they must be blind June 7th and counting
    As BMCQ points out the strategy is simple
    Were closing the park to all cars
    Were closing one of the two lanes to cars
    Weve seen a decline in auto traffic so were closing the park to cars.

    They dont mention the decline is caused by eliminating parking spots or raising parking rates to astronomically high prices
    Too bad for everyone that uses that park that doesnt own a $ 5000 Bianchi

    (Response: What the anti-car crusaders don’t tell you is that, after their motion passes (foregone conclusion) and after the study is completed and after they decide to close one lane (foregone conclusion) and remove lots of parking (foregone conclusion), they will RAISE the parking rates again (already as high as $13 a day) to make up for lost revenue but mostly to punish and discourage those need a vehicle …not a bike or skateboard or Nikes to get around the entire 405 hectare site. h.o)

  26. e.a.f. says:

    DBW, intuition is what keeps some of us alive. It may be an emotional response, but also sometimes its not, its just whatever it is. Yes, it keeps us alive and in many cases one step ahead of death or destruction.. In our family, some paid attention to their
    “intuition” and its why some of us are life today. (if the grandparent unit hadn’t listened to his intuition I would never have been born) Sometimes its understanding people’s motivation.

    Harvey Isn’t cynical. He’s a journalist who has been at it for a very long time. I remember when he looked like those pictures at the top of the blog, cute cheeks and all. Some of us as we age, remember our life experiences and people aren’t that different and 7 out of 10 times, behaviour is repeated, either on a singular or group basis. Harvey, like I have followed politics in this province for a long time. although Harvey has watched/reported on politics in Canada for along time, I’ve been watching it since I was 9 years old and I’m 70 now,. We have learned from history. If you do not learn from it, society will repeat it.

    Vancouver City politicians have come in all political stripes, but most remained the same. Yes, I can remember Mayor Alsbury. Met him later in the 70s, when he was out of politics and older. Nice man. At some level Tom Campbell wasn’t that different from those Greens/COPes, etc. we see today, opposite sides of the political spectrum but not so different. Some cities develop “political cultures”. Even decades later, they persist. Sometime a new breath of fresh air comes in, and it leaves, but the culture can re appear at any time. So in my opinion Harvey isn’t cynical. He’s a realist who has been around the political block more than once.

  27. nvg says:

    Whatever happened to sitting down and writing a letter to complain, or to compliment various levels of governments eg: park, school boards, city, provincial, or federal, instead of being dependent upon a third party, such as Change.org to speak on your behalf?

    Change.org is running a business and they are doing it because of MONEY, from your generous donations, if you so choose to.

    https://www.change.org/s/members-canada?source_location=member_link_header

    Become a Change.org Member
    Millions of people come to Change.org every day to sign petitions that reshape policy and transform lives. Your membership allows that to continue — select your preferred monthly amount (in Canadian dollars) to become a member.
    Contribute monthly:
    $4 $10 $15 $20
    MONTHLY

    12 MONTHS later
    Contributions per year
    $48 $120 $ 180 $240

    *************
    Those Millions of visitors per day claim, could be an inflated number, but who’s to know, to question….
    ***************************

    I can only guess that people sign up with outfits like Change.org because they can see, immediately, and visit repeatedly, if they are ‘winning’ the battle, and having joined at 1,003, they are now heading for 5,000 .. and Change.org keeps ratcheting the bar up because they are praying that ‘you all’ are heading for an Elon Musk Space-X sky high winner.

    Gambling in its purest form. Spin and Win

    What you are not seeing is Change.org other in-house division. A ‘Third Party’ which collects outstanding monies owed to Change.org, and shared between themselves.

    After all, they are running a business.

    (Response: Unfortunately, the success rate through history of writing a letter to extreme dictators to complain and ask for a better more fair and accommodating solution …is not very good. h.o_)

  28. BMCQ says:

    13

    The exact same thing will eventually happen to city owned Fraserview, Langara, and much later McCleery PUBLIC Golf Courses .

    Langur will be first, Parks Board will announce that 9 holes will be taken away for “Green Space” then as time goes on and golfers no longer play golf at Langara as it has been bastardized as 9 holes is not golf the PB and City will add in Tax Payer Funded Social GHousing to House more Drug Addled Repeat Prolific Offenders that arrive on non returnable warrants from Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, and everywhere in between. Of course PB will leave enough Green Space so hundreds of tents can be set up.
    It will be perfect as Langara is on both Sky Train and Bus routes do no cars will be needed for residents . Then Fraserview and McCleery will be next .

    Leftist Activist Parks Board, Mayor Stewart, and Council see Golf much the same way as they see the automobile, they think Golfers are all wealthy privileged old white guys so “We must take away their privilege”, none of Green, COPE, or Visionite members want anything close to golf or cars to survive .

    Within that same time frame the Horse Race Track where I had my first job selling Green and Blue Sheets in grade 7 and eventually the PNE as a whole will be under attack and they will push for Social Housing, bike and nature paths and of course Social Housing and then the tents .

    It is rather unfortunate but the Vancouver Mayors which includes Mumbles Robertson and the self admitted criminal Kennedy Stewart, their Councils, and Parks Board will not get much of a push back by many in Media other than our retired friend Harvey so it is up to the NPA to get it’s act together and put together a coalition of candidates from the left, the centre and the right and represent the real citizens of Vancouver and business that are suffering greatly under the Leftist Activists that are slowly damaging the city of my birth beyond repair .

    Surely John Horgan, Dix, Wilkinson, and most of their minions cannot endorse what Vancouver Council and the Parks Board are doing to Vancouver, the province has many ways to demand better from so called city leaders .

    Vancouver, its streets, it’s business ventures, tax payers, Property Tax and more are under serious attack and the city will be forced to liquidate a serious amount of assets, if something is not done every single person in B.C. will pay for it .

    Then of course Victoria is next .

  29. nvg says:

    I can’t believe this Harvey.

    You see everything around you as being a dictatorship.

    You need to get out and walk around, not just a park, blocks would help. You have plenty of places to choose from, but you seem to be fixated on JUST the one, for now.

    (Response: Are you just trolling? You say I see “everything around (me) as being a dictatorship.” Clearly you are trolling or have not been reading this blog very long ..or even recently …where I noted Horgan and Trudeau have done a pretty good job on Covid … not a dictatorship in either jurisdiction. BUT yes, unlike the mainstream media I am not intimidated and do call out dictatorships and extremists for exactly what they are: China, Putin, Saudi Arabia, the Vancouver Park Board. h.o)

  30. DBW says:

    Clarifications:
    e.a.f. I didn’t call Harvey a cynic. He called himself that. And while you might infer that I was calling him a cynic that word never crossed my mind. I was only pointing out what I read in a book (which you can refute if you wish) that our opinions are formed from intuition, gut feeling and it is only after we have that opinion do we try to find reasons to justify it, and only then when we are expressing it to others. People can go through their entire lives hating a party or a religion or a group of people or an idea without ever trying to reason out why they feel that way. Why do you hate gay marriage Well because. Why do you love Trump. Well because. Why do you hate cars or the park closure? Well because. Until you understand that intuition, there is no way you can reach any kind of common ground and have a discussion. (my opinion)

    And I am not even suggesting that that’s Harvey. His experiences give him reason to feel as he does. But if you start with the position that the people you oppose are uncaring tyrannical fascists (seriously?) it is pretty hard to find common ground if you are trying to find a way to reopen Stanley Park and give equal access to as many people as possible. Look at his response to 13. He has already given up.

    13 If you want to call nvg and myself drunk on the koolaid or trolls fine. Just realize that you are alienating allies. nvg has tried to focus the discussion – he gave us the actual motion and all the stakeholders that would be consulted. I have said often that cars should not be banned in Stanley Park. My apparent sin is to point out what the park’s commissioners have said and doubted that they (an elected board) are fascists. You should be trying to ensure our continued support not push us away.

    And Harvey, why did you write the letters you did to the commissioners if you didn’t think anything would come of it. Signing an online petition is meaningless. Change requires work and unfortunately, in a democracy, you are not always victorious. Maybe you are in the minority when it comes to the future of cars. But there are reasonable compromises if people can find the common ground to talk to one another. I am sure Coupar and Barker are not screaming “fascist” at their fellow commissioners and I am sure they will get further with that approach.

    Hope things go well at tomorrow’s meeting.

    (Response: I wrote them for the same reasons I have blogged about the issue or anything else or why people comment publicly about policies/actions of governments etc. at all: It’s important to not only state my (and others’) views … and let those in power know we are aware and not happy, but also give them an opportunity to explain/defend their positions as part of the discourse. The fact that only two of the ELECTED seven Park Board members even responded says a lot in itself. h.o)

    .

  31. 13 says:

    Harvey in your (Ive lost count ) last response to nvg you lumped the parks board in with some other extreme dictatorships. Ill bet you $5 that nvg is pounding out a scathing comment on your comparison. My advice to nvg Take a pill.

  32. BMCQ says:

    DBW

    You are very constructive, insightful with many of your comments, although a bit lengthy at times and you are even mistaken from time to time and sometimes even a bit of a nit picker on any given issue but I read every single word you post and I always learn something of value from what you state .

    I (believe it or not) like to believe I am much like you, constructive and always doing my best to see all sides of any issue, I also, like you, do my best to back up my points with fact and sometimes you or others might prove me wrong and that is fine, I am always more than happy to admit I am wrong on any given subject . I think you will confirm that .

    Having said that, nvg, max, splash dancer, and a few more from the past are/were trolls but IMHO worse than that because they attack our Host and that is not acceptable .

    Harvey is 100% wrong about the “Bad Orange Man” but that does not entitle me to call Harvey names and he does not call me names for my opinion on Trump, although at times he is quite critical .

    On the other hand nvg and Max are disrespectful to Harvey and YOU should call them out, I do, it would mean much more if YOU or eaf or Hawgwash called both nvg and Max out, but I am certainly not counting on any of you . Why is it so many of us today are afraid to sand up for our principles ?

    e.a.f. and myself can get under each others skin but e.a.f. would never attack our host, she respects Harvey, and she respects the rest of us, even if she is mistaken most of the time .

    I was able to call into CKNW and offer my opinion on the upcoming plan for Vancouver Parks Board and their proposal/plan to do away with Langara Golf course which will within the fairly near future be turned into Social Housing and “Green Space” . Of course the NDP/Green/Visionite Shills that are doing the dirty work for the Parks Board say it is only a discussion but the Die has been Cast, Golf Courses are frequented by too many Old Fat White Guys and the parking lots are far too full of the automobiles, trucks, and SUV’s of those same Old Fat White Guys, Langara is like yesterdays dinner, done .

    “Old White Guys” should be seen in Zoos and History Books only, they have served their purpose and they are no longer required, they are ow only a danger to society as a whole . That goes double for Retired Old White Policemen .

    And just how long will I be before Langara Golf Club is dug up and redeveloped ?

    Of course “Meaningful Discussion, Debate, and Careful Planning with “Stakeholders” will take place first then a decision will be made”

    Yeah, sure .

    (Response: Thanks. I hope you mentioned Harvey Oberfeld’s Blog on NW! Your Comment on here made my day ..not by any of your arguments/reasoning but by your line to DBW about HIS being “a bit lengthy at times”. LOL! Now I HAVE heard everything!! 🙂 h.o)

  33. e.a.f. says:

    13, no way about the pill. This is the best entertainment I have. Can’t get out of the house, nothing on t.v. besides this blog and Empty Wheel, …………………..and music, most political things are just too repetitive to get to interested in. Reading the headlines covers it, but the arguments/ discussions on this blog, I can read while deciding its time to get up and finish the coffee.

    DBW, my apologies. I think they’re calling it pandemic brain right now

  34. 13 says:

    DBW I had to reread to see where I called you a consumer of koolaid or that you lived under a bridge. I never did call you either. You for some reason Ill never understand decided to toss nvg under the bus. Once again I did not accuse him of drinking anything but I did suspect him of being a troll. Still do or possibly connected to COV public works
    ps I only went back posts in this topic I may have called you a koolaid drinker in the past but I dont think so.
    Thank God for the pandemic or we would have had to wait for some other smoke screan to ban cars from the park. One lane at a time

  35. DBW says:

    I am not sure why bother but here goes.

    13: You said this “I had to reread to see where I called you a consumer of koolaid or that you lived under a bridge.”

    On June 7 @ 7:36a.m. you said this: Harvey, I read your reasoned responses to post after post by those that want to as you said guzzle the kool aid. Perhaps troll.

    Prior to that Harvey was surprised that I “so willingly swallow the Koolaid the Park Board has served up on this issue”.

    Connect the dots. Unless you want to throw Harvey under the bus and say you were only repeating what he said.

    As for throwing nvg under the bus. Hardly. I complimented him on all that he has done for advancing the discussion and seeing that you used the plural “those” and you disagreed with him about other things and because nobody else on here except a fed up Max fit your descriptions, I assumed (my bad) that he was the other author of all the posts you had read.

    I will repeat, though, that if you are looking for allies, you are doing a lousy job.

  36. E. Johnson says:

    Methinks you have a troll, Harvey.

  37. E. Johnson says:

    EAF your comment on intuition and learning from history is much appreciated. The older I get, the more I question the decisions being made by elected and non elected officials that govern us. Proposals may appear to be logical and sensible but when intuition is telling you that it doesn’t feel right, it usually isn’t. In his BCTV days we could count on Harvey to ask politicians the tough questions and persist until he drew some type of response.

    (Response: Glad the public are now aware of this exclusionary situation. Saddens me though that, even with media on to this story, haven’t seen a single TOUGH questioning of Park Board members or staff! Maybe my next blog will alert them to a good follow up! h.o)

  38. CMH says:

    During a discussion with the sibling with Parkinson, I mentioned the subject of this article. sibling was most upset with the Park’s Board. Wanted me to thank you for writing on the subject, so from the sibiling, CMH, A BIG THANK YOU FOR FIGHTING THE PARKS BOARD ON THIS SUBJECT.

    (Response: Thanks. I certainly was whistling in the wind for a while on this … so was happy when CTV and then Global and then others, including editorialist Bruce Allen, various radio talk show hosts and even a Change.Org petitioner became aware and not only spoke up … but some even SHOWED UP at the Park Board meeting! Will have another blog out later today…on what the takeaway less for ALL British Columbians is on this… h.o)

  39. hawgwash says:

    It’s hard to grasp what this blog has become, in just a few months; is it really intended to be an angry old men’s club?

    I don’t need to defend nvg, because in all the years of contributing to local blogs, he has acquitted and defended himself very well. That personal attacks and name calling, are part of the new normal, even by, especially by, Harvey, is a puzzle and at the same time, a sad commentary of the diminished quality of this blog.

    I now fully expect to see a Trump Tweet on how “all the wonderful people of Vancouver” emulate him and I never thought I would see BMCQ in the sane column. Kudos BMCQ for the brilliant one liner on DBW’s ramblings.

    DBW, keep trying, of late, it’s all I come here for.

    But, to keep it real, I now understand the VPB rationale. With the introduction of booze in the parks, they are hoping the already inconsiderate, wobbly bikers, will be a lesser threat to public safety than drunks in cars.

    Good forward thinking.

  40. 13 says:

    Oh DBW if you live by the nit pick you must die by the nit pick

  41. D. M. Johnston says:

    Wow!

    I am pathological, no a bully, no and angry senior, no not from this blog, but on
    Facebook because I dared to question the Parks Board’s decision reducing cars in Stanley Park.

    This is the cycle lobby in full attack mode, don’t debate, don’t even try, just shred all opposition and threaten the establishment with bike blockades and more.

    Frankly I don’t care about Stanley Park as today it is over hyped for what it is.

    A warning and a message for taxpayer’s in Vancouver. Beware of the elite pressure groups denying those who cannot enjoy the park for a variety of reasons and track who these pressure groups support politically and vote accordingly.

    Rapidly, Vancouver is turning into a playground for the rich and entitled elites and those who don’t fit the code, the elderly, the mobility impaired, the intellectually impaired, or any one who does not fit the “Vancouver scene” are growingly unwelcome.

  42. BMCQ says:

    I find it very difficult to understand why one or two here seem to think that Vancouver Mayor, the Visionite/Green/COPE Council and Parks Board are somehow on the side of the wealthy . Again and Again the Mayor and his minions are largely unsuccessful Leftist PC SJW Politicians that have never really accomplished anything worthwhile in their lives and they are currently in the best job they have ever had and that is one very important reason we need term limits at all three levels of government . Far too many noses far too deep into the public trough far too long .

    Again the Mayor, Council, and PB hate everything about the wealthy and that is the major reason for the war on the car . Those same people hate everything about the wealthy, larger homes/condos, nice cars/suv, private golf clubs, boating, and so much more you can imagine .

    People like Mayor Stewart and those others named would want nothing less than forcing all successful wealthy residents out of Vancouver and turning everything they have into social housing.

    The only reason wealthy or moderately wealthy and successful working people and business types are of any value to the Mayor and Council etc is because those same Activist politicians want the income from the multitude of various tax burdens anyone successful or working pays to the city .

    This is not difficult to grasp, please .

    Whether one lives in Vancouver or not everyone in YVR, B.C. or Canada should care about Stanley Park and the access for cars, oldsters, disabled, young families and anyone else that might require a car to navigate the park .

    To not care about SP when you do not live there is simply imbecilic and moronic, remember what the Priest in Germany once said, “Next time they might be coming for you “ .

    (Response: As I mentioned in another Response, I have voted Green in the past: I’ve also voted NDP, Liberal and Conservative … depending on the most important issues for me at the time, as well as the leaders, platforms, performances etc. In fact, I believe most Canadian voters prefer moderate policies that pendulate left or right … depending on their perception of the greater need at the time, BUT always moderately so … respecting the diversity of our society. That’s where I feel the Greens, in power at the Park Board, betrayed most voters: imposing dictatorial force to shut out ALL vehicles from Stanley Park … NO compassion, NO accommodation, NO sharing … forgetting that for every action, there will be an equal and opposite reaction … and showing, in a democracy, they’re clearly not ready to govern at the Park Board or ANY higher level. h.o)

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