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Stench of Anti-Semitism Wafts from Vancouver City Hall

September 6th, 2017 · 43 Comments

At some point, those of the moderate, center left in Canada are going to have to address the seeping anti-Semitism that is increasingly emerging from radicals who previously inhabited only the darker corners of their ideological tent.

It has long been there among the militant left:  easily witnessed by anyone who has followed the blatantly prejudiced motions and resolutions introduced, and often passed over the past few decades, at militant union conventions and by university groups that SINGLE OUT and ZERO IN on  Jews … here and abroad …. thinly disguised as “concerns” about Israeli policies, Israeli actions, Israeli professionals, Israeli  speakers and Israeli products.

Nothing to do with anything “Jewish”,  they always explain …. just out of concern for human rights, injustice etc.

If so, WHERE have been the motions, resolutions, debates, condemnations, calls for boycotts at these same left-wing union conventions and leftist university organizations condemning MUCH WORSE human rights violators ….  China, Russia, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Gaza, Syria, Egypt, Sudan,  Iran, Turkey and Venezuela.

Nothing! Nada! Nix!

Anyone who studies human rights, women’s issues, gay protections, democratic governance, rule of law knows full well these other countries are in a very sad, deplorable almost barbaric world of their own when it comes to the values the left claim to embrace, promote and defend.

So why ONLY motions directed at the Jewish state!  It is modern day anti-Semitism, and it is unfortunately finding a welcome home among the supposedly educated, enlightened left.

There was no greater proof of this than the federal Greens last Fall!

http://harveyoberfeld.ca/blog/greens-make-anti-israel-hate-official-policy/

In addition to the disgraceful “anti-Israel” motions passed at the federal Green Party policy convention was one little gem aimed directly at the Canadian branch of the Jewish National Fund … a charity that has planted 240 million trees in Israel, helped build 250 water reservoirs and had funded some of the world’s top research projects in developing and expanding green and agricultural water-saving technologies… that have been adopted by other Mid East and African countries as well.

This was condemned … by the GREENS!   Because the JNF aids the Jewish state. How ludicrous!

Everyone knows there are many, many ethnic charities in Canada that provide aid and fund projects “back home” to assist people and projects in their ancestral lands: China, India, Pakistan, Ireland, Philippines, Greece, Ukraine … there’s no end to the list.  BUT no motions calling for those to lose their charitable status.

Only the Jewish National Fund was singled out for “special treatment: …or mistreatment … by the Greens.   I believe what the Greens really HATED was that the JNF raised funds … mostly from Jewish Canadians …and provided ANY kind of aid to the JEWISH state.

Anti-Semitic BIGOTS!

And now, that ugly stench of that double standard of the extreme left is wafting from Vancouver City Hall.

City officials decided to allow a talk at the city-owned Orpheum Theatre by a British conspiracy theorist, David Icke … with a long-established reputation for anti-Semitism …  claiming “lizard people” and Zionists control the world, that “Rothschild Zionists”  caused the 2008 financial crisis, were behind the 9/11 attacks and he has reportedly even ENDORSED the historically disgraced Protocols of the Elders of Zion, that purported to reveal Jewish plans for world domination.

Interestingly, Vancouver’s theatre board recommended Icke’s event NOT be accepted for a public venue ….  and be turned down, just as it had been in Toronto.  Yet, Vision’s City Hall would not stop Icke from using the public facility to make his speech.   After all, we must protect freedom of speech!

Really?

Does anyone believe that Vision’s City Hall would have allowed a public facility to be used for a speaking engagement by ANY conspiracy theorist who had an international reputation for claiming, say,  that Moslems or Chinese or Arabs or East Indians etc. are out to take over control and rule the world?

NOT!  Nor should they.

But if you have a reputation for disparaging Jewish people … including some truly awful accusations …  the welcome mat is out by the anti-Semitic far left apparently in control at Vancouver City Hall.

As I said this is not a NEW phenomenon on the far left: but WHERE were the centre left moderates on this issue?  You know, the loving, caring “we are the world” aficionados who have loudly and proudly stood up for virtually every other minority against harassment, discrimination, hatred?  Silent!

The lame excuse …so often used when anti-Semites attack Jewish people even in the most base way is:  Free speech must be protected.

Then WHY only weeks ago did Vision Mayor Gregor  Robertson and other “progressives” …. on hearing that an alt-right group planned to hold a rally OUTSIDE City Hall on a weekend day, when the building was closed … urge and support others to show up and oppose … and de facto, basically disrupt that gathering and curb them from speaking.

Where was the alt-right’s freedom of speech?  And THEY were Canadian citizens …not a foreign import like Icke.

Why didn’t the Vision lefties respect THEIR right?

Or is freedom of speech only to be allowed by those they agree with … including anti-Semites?

Harv Oberfeld

Tags: British Columbia · International · National

43 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Gene The Bean // Sep 6, 2017 at 9:06 am

    Well, lets start off with the bad – which I think you covered in detail and there is nothing more I can really add.

    The good – I have never heard of David Icke and I never heard anything about this event.

    Anti-semites are just bigots and racists. Period. No better than the former bigots and racists here in government and no better than the current bigots and racists proudly empowered south of the 49th.

    I have never understood the looney-left’s stand on Israel and Jews. It just doesn’t seem to make any sense on any level. But trying to rationalize an irrational argument is just fools gold.

    If it is becoming fashionable to be openly racist and bigoted then lets just make sure it is cutting-edge fashionable to call them out.

    (Response: I agree: it is very strange. Far right anti-Semites always tried to depict Jewish people as Socialists, Communists etc. and if you objectively examine how Israel has such a strong democratic base, very strong UNION/Labour laws, has treated women’s rights and legalized gay rights (despite severe opposition from religious zealots) you would think those on the left would applaud. Even Israel’s Arab population … while admittedly NOT treated fully equally … have MORE democratic and legal rights and better educational/health benefits than ANY of their kin living in surrounding Arab lands. You would think the pressure from the LEFT here should be to get the Arab states to at least bring their populations UP to Israeli standards! There is clearly an ugly anti-Semitic BIAS at work by extremists on the left … as exhibited by Vancouver City Hall’s recent decision … and moderates should deal with that before it totally taints/destroys their credibility. h.o.)

  • 2 Island Lookout // Sep 6, 2017 at 11:07 am

    SOCIALISM IS TYRANNY…

    …pure and simple. That will not change.

    In a nut-shell left-wingers do not want anything to do with the democratic process.

    Democracy is only promoted by weak-kneed petit-bourgeois Tilley-hatted yuppies, and other Liberal “traitors to the cause” who have no idea just how important it is to establish “World-wide Socialism” ASAP.

    Socialists, BTW, never say WHY they want tyranny other than it is necessary to have a “pure” form of governance whatever that means.

    Or perhaps lefties feel inferior to successful, independent souls who enjoy life.

    To lefties, meanwhile, after dealing with the Liberals, there are just so many OTHER people out there who “need to be taught a lesson”: peasants, deplorables, non-unionized workers, and those without college or university “educations”.

    They are re-education camp candidates at best and street-riot cannon-fodder preferably.

    Look at ANTIFA-driven riots against the right-wingers and Liberals in the US!

    Vancouver’s mayor and his Vision council members are simply beavering away at “doing their business”, seeking the euphoria, the paradise, the utopia of socialism they have been self-ordained to find but have yet not done so.

    Concluding, the biggest task of the socialist, is to find the “ideal socialist”, one who knows everything about the human condition and coerce that into a world-scale socialist paradise.

    Such an individual has yet to be found, but there have been efforts in that regard:
    Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler (sort of), Mussolini (sort of), and numerous African dictators and their “minor” massacres they’ve commited since their “liberation” from European colonial masters since the 1950s. Check back on that long list of suspects.

    As for city council’s anti-semitic behaviour: that just goes with the left-wing territory, and will never change.

    ALSO, belonging to the NDP doesn’t help this process if you are at all concerned about your viable future. Stay away from them!

    (Response: Of course, let us not forget that extreme rightists are also tyrannical …and often anti-Semitic. I think it has something to do with extremists always looking for scapegoats and simplistic answers to sometimes very complicated economic and social questions and realities. And any highly prominent or successful minority makes an easy target: whether it was the Ismaili Muslims in Uganda; Rohinga in Myanmar; Christians in Arab countries … and Jews wherever they too have settled. Society IS making progress in routing out these bigots, but for some reason, the far left at universities, in unions and among certain political parties have been given a free pass to practice their anti-Jewish prejudices … BECAUSE not enough of the moderates have stood up and said NO! h.o.)

  • 3 Harry Lawson // Sep 6, 2017 at 2:22 pm

    Harvey

    Welcome back.

    Vision is playing the politics of racist extremism, I would hope the theatre board would resign and hold a press conference on the way out.
    Why is this not getting the same press as the city hall protest?
    Where are the other civic parties?

    Vancouver is about 5 weeks away from a by-election and a little over a year from a general civic vote.

    (Response: It would be a GOOD sign and LOUD signal about standing up for minority rights if the board did resign. But unfortunately, as Green Leader Elizabeth May proved, many “leaders” don’t have the gumption or ethical standard to walk away from their own perks and power etc because of principles … at least not to stand up against anti-Semitism! :( h.o)

  • 4 e.a.f. // Sep 6, 2017 at 2:46 pm

    I suspect some of it comes from the fact the Jews we see in North America re by the main, white. The Jews thus become an easy target for those who oppose white privilege. Jews in many sectors of our society are still thought of as rich, well to do, etc. They are thus fair game. Its not like attacking a “visible” minority. Jews are a more or less “invisible” minority so its easier to target them.

    No one thinks of them as a visible minority. If you can’t identify people, then its easier to target them and thus we have the moderates not dealing with the issue. its not like having your hajab pulled off.

    Lets try to remember the brain trust at Vision Vancouver is thin, very thin. This is just another e.g. of their inability to see much of anything beyond their own narrow borders. Lets see, the bike lanes, the snow clearing of bike lanes, pulling down the Georgia Viaducts, now they want to turn Water St. into a pedestrian only street. Just add bigots to the list and you will see its part of a mind set which just doesn’t get it beyond their own narrow view. its easy to attack Jew/Israelis. The dumb asses can’t figure out there is a difference between a Jew and an Israeli. I’m sure some of them would be shocked to find out there are Muslim Israelis.

    next election vote the idiots out of office.

    its always easy to appear to be “involved” in the fight for “justice” when you can toss another group under the bus, which won’t fight back or you don’t appear to be attacking a minority and Israel is not considered a minority nation by many of the left.

    of course attacking China would not go over well with the Mayor and Vision. they like it, it made all their developer friends rich, by permitting their citizens to come over here and purchase land in Vancouver. We have yet to hear word one from Vision about the organ trade in China. Saudi’s repression of women, not a word. that is just O.K. Russia’s attacks against GLBTQ people–don’t hear much at all from Vision.

    Part of the anit semetic strategy is to make head way in leftist groups and groups which want to appeal to those more or less on the margins. the Greens hoped to make in roads amongst those who don’t like the state of Israel, they may not have consciously set out to do that, but its the same effect.

    ever since Trump started his Make America Great Again, which has been interpreted as Make America White again, hate speech towards Jews has increased.

    Vision is just plain stupid to permit this speech to go ahead on City property. its like Charlottesville. it was free speech and then the torches and slogans came out and then one dead woman. There is a fine line between free speech and hate speech, but Vision Vancouver, never having been deep thinkers just haven’t figured it out yet. So next election is you don’t support anti Semitism, vote for some one else. This will only get worse in Vancouver until we have a Charolottesville type incident.

    its time to write the Mayor and council of Vancouver and file a Human Rights Complaint for permitting this to happen on City property. Some one might want to cover this and have it re produced on the nightly news so Vision can be exposed for what they truly are. We all pay taxes for city property. it ought not to be used for bigoted activities. China used to bill the families of the executed for the bullet. Vision is doing the same thing to Jews by charging tax dollars so they can be vilified. Nice going Mayor Moonbeam.

    (Response: Of course, people do have the right NOT to like the State of Israel and can criticise it: being a vigorous democracy, there is a lot of criticism/debate right there … just as we in Canada and BC debate and disagree with government policies. BUT there’s something really concerning … and deserving of exposure and condemnation when supposedly responsible PUBLIC politicians, parties, bodies, university organizations and unions single out ONE state for condemnation and isolation, while ignoring so many WORSE regimes. And when that bigotry extends to targeting or providing space to those with a record of specifically attacking ANY ethnic or racial or religious group … we should ALL condemn those “leaders” who let it happen. h.o)

  • 5 Cris Hyde. // Sep 6, 2017 at 4:31 pm

    Antisemitism has been around since the birth of Christianity and and possibly before that. It is not going to go away any time soon. Whether right or left of center it is spawned out of the ignorance of groups and individuals who do not appear to have the ability to look at themselves in the mirror and accept responsibility for their own failings. Easier to blame someone else. In general but not always they are poorly educated, not very well read, conspiracy theorists and I suspect have a lousy sex life. In my own experience as a small contractor I have in over thirty years on four occasions come in to contact with individuals sprouting antisemitic garbage and on one occasion so bad that I took the matter to the appropriate authorities where I am glad to say it was dealt with.

    (Response: Thanks. We all have a responsibility to stand up against and denounce racism wherever it rears its head: silence and complicity is never the answer. And that’s why I am particularly bothered when our supposed “leaders” and political groups, parties, community groups, unions, universities and city hall do NOT take a stand loud and clear or give a public platform to anyone who has a record or reputation for promoting it. We ARE doing better in BC and Canada in confronting it … except for some curious and disturbing reason … when Jewish people or the state of Israel are the targets and singled out in a way NO OTHER group or country face. Shame on Vancouver’s Vision-controlled City Hall for FAILING in this case … in a way they would NEVER stay silent or do nothing if Moslems or blacks or Asians or any other group were threatened. h.o.)

  • 6 seven // Sep 6, 2017 at 5:08 pm

    What’s next, a Scientology convention?

  • 7 DBW // Sep 7, 2017 at 1:09 am

    Here’s your headline

    Stench of Anti-Semitism Wafts from Vancouver City Hall

    And your evidence is that they allowed some conspiracy theorist (with an appropriate last name for someone who believes we are ruled by crossbreeded reptilians) to speak at a city owned venue.

    Maybe your headline is correct. I just find the evidence a bit flimsy, leading to some wild generalizations by at least one of your first six responders.

    The first question to ask is whether or not David Icke should have been allowed to use a city owned venue.

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/daily-poll-should-david-ickes-talk-at-vancouvers-orpheum-go-on

    If you don’t think he should have been allowed to use the Orpheum then give your reasons.

    But I think you have a long way to go to prove that someone is anti-Semitic (especially the entire City Hall of Vancouver) if they disagree.

    (Response: Read the blog again: I clearly said “Does anyone believe that Vision’s City Hall would have allowed a public facility to be used for a speaking engagement by ANY conspiracy theorist who had an international reputation for claiming, say,  that Moslems or Chinese or Arabs or East Indians etc. are out to take over control and rule the world?” THAT’S the issue: Vision’s Vancouver City Hall, in my opinion, allowed a well-proven anti-Semite who has accused Jews of being behind 9/11 and the 2008 world economic downfall to use a PUBLICLY financed and owned speaking venue to promote his views, when they would NEVER allow anyone with such views against Muslims, Asians and/or blacks to do the same. Did you miss the Mayor himself urging people to show up (and in effect disrupt) an alt right rally OUTSIDE City Hall on a weekend day when the building was closed? Yet a widely denounced bigot is welcome INSIDE a City venue??? The hypocrisy is so blatant … and so deserving of condemnation. h.o)

  • 8 RIsaak // Sep 7, 2017 at 9:50 am

    Vision Vancouver has set a dangerous precedent by making the Falun Gong’s exceptionally peaceful protest illegal. They since have bent over backwards to accommodate wealthy from the PRC, at much cost to average Canadians, especially the ones without much wealth. The politically correct dogma followers never adequately gaze in a mirror, that requires a conscience and a dose of reality. They conveniently cast stones at others while doing exactly similar things to other groups. Once any race is mentioned, racism is present? I counter with, if we are truly a multicultural nation, why do we shepherd some while castigating others? This reeks of selective racism IMO. Nice thread Harv, albeit one which is such a massive political football it seems to entice it’s own ridiculous level of fumbling, on many fronts.

    (Response: Amazing how intolerant the extreme left can be! The left USED TO BE the champions of democracy, freedom of expression, peaceful protest and tolerance …but clearly something has gone wrong: the extreme activists seem to have taken over, pushed the moderates aside and now extend their once-laudable principles ONLY to those they agree with … giving in to radical political correctness and even discrimination and racism when it caters to their militant ideology. h.o.)

  • 9 BMCQ // Sep 7, 2017 at 12:01 pm

    Welcome back Harvey, I am sure you have been missed greatly!

    A great essay, I have so far read it twice.

    I suppose that sometimes all we have are our opinions on why people are Bigots, Anti Semitic, or just plain Haters.

    Obviously we have our past and present Far Right Nazi hate groups and then there are the more subtle Leftist Groups of the same Ilk.

    It is well documented that Anti Semitic Haters have always and still do exist all over Europe, especially France for some reason being a Hot Bed of Anti Semitic types.

    Now that EU Leadership has managed to open their Doors and Borders to so many from the Middle East Anti-Semitism and just simply Hate for Jewish People is stronger than at any time since WW II.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Europe

    In fact Jewish People by the thousands are fleeing many EU Nations and seeking Safe Haven in Israel.

    Because of the Rise of Anti-Semistism in the EU, Africa, and the Middle East Canadian PM Justin should be offering Safe Haven to Jewish Families in Canada.

    It is much easier to Vet Jewish Families, Minority Christians from the Middle East or Africa, or Yazidi’s, these are the People Canada should be re-settling in Canada.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/07/who-yazidi-isis-iraq-religion-ethnicity-mountains

    It is only a guess but I believe for some reasons that may date back to Nazi and earlier Propaganda promoted by Anti Jewish Groups Leftist Types somehow believe that Jewish People are Rich and manipulative Business People willing to do anything to make a profit.

    I also believe that those same Leftists hate Israel and they relate that to Jewish People regardless of where they may be.

    The reasons are obviously very complicated.

    Then there are also Leftist Politicians like Vision or Princeton University that would allow former Iranian President and Weasel Ahmadinejad Speak but then shout down Condoleezza Rice or Anne Coulter. Go Figure!

    I always find it laughable how Leftists so often call for “Free Speech” but ONLY if you agree with them!!

    Just wait until we have a handful of Anarchist Antifa Members or Black Lives dictate who Vancouver City can have in their “PRIDE” Parade Next Year!! That should be interesting.

    If I was Vancouver Police I would withdraw any request to take place in that Parade next year.

    I am quite sure that it would not be long before some “Critical Thinking” Members of the LGBQT Community would speak up and point out very correctly that it is the VPD that have long provided some of the Safest Secure Streets for that Community anywhere in the World.

    Of course it is a very Slippery Slope when a Government Bans certain Groups like Icke from Public Facilities but sometimes it must be done.

    And Yes, where was Green Leadership like May and Weaver on the Green Policy regarding Israel?

    Hiding Under their Desks no Doubt!!

    Harvey said it all in his Essay at the Top of the Page and that Blog Essay should be reprinted in News Papers in Vancouver and every other Major City in the Free World!!

    I also must point out the Response of Harvey to DBW at Post 7 on this page, it was excellent!

    Island Lookout – 2

    e.a.f. – 3

    Harry Lawson – 4

    All made some great points

    My Apologies to Hawgwash!

    The Anti Israel/Jewish Leftist Lobby is so powerful that even Jewish People in the Entertainment Industry are Anti Israel.

    Israel is the ONLY Nation in ALL of the Middle East that is safe for WOMEN, LGBTQ, and Religious Minorities, regardless of that Religion.

    Of course we cannot generalize but I believe that many Holier than Thou Leftists Mask and Disguise their disdain for Jewish People by criticizing Israel the Country.

    Leftist Anti Semites are just a little more polite than your “Run of the Mill” Nazi!!

    Then of course we must answer this question.

    Just who decides who is promoting “Hate Speech”, “Bigotry”, “Antisemitism”, whether it be at Government Owned Buildings at the Civic, Provincial, or Federal Levels of Government?

    Personally I have no confidence in Elected Officials like PM Justin, Mayor Gregor, Kathleen Wynne or many others making that decision for the Citizens.

    My point is obvious when you look at the case before us in Vancouver with the Mayor Gregor and his Visionites giving a Platform to someone like David Icke!

    (Response: I believe we should try to accept, as broadly as possible, the right of people from various points of view to express their ideas. BUT when their extremist ideas and hateful or racist ideas and theories have been well-documented …especially through their own writings … they should be able to speak at private sites (and prosecuted if they violate hate laws) but they need NOT be provided taxpayer-funded facilities to spread their messages…. unless EVERYONE can enjoy that right. Clearly that is NOT the case in Vancouver…so the question remains: WHY did Vision City Hall grant a documented anti-Semitic writer and theorist a right I believe they would NEVER grant someone who spoke the same way about Muslims, Asians, blacks, etc..??? h.o.)

  • 10 e.a.f. // Sep 7, 2017 at 2:02 pm

    those on the extreme left are really sometimes not that different from the extreme right. they espouse the same sort of rhetoric as the extreme right. they simply have different targets.

    I don’t know if some of the extreme left are simply racists who found a home in the left because there was no more room on the right to gain attention or if they or they are left with some racist tendencies. I believe you will find racism in all “political” groups. Some times its easier to move your agenda forward in a leftist group, because they raise the issue of oppression by a group they never liked to begin with.

    In the end it doesn’t really matter in this case. It is simply not appropriate to use city facilities that every one pays for to espouse hate and that is what this speaker is doing. If Vision wants to stand behind their free speech routine, fine. They need to remember what happened in Charlottesville. Vision needs to understand that sort of thing can happen here. If Vision thinks it can walk away from the first act of anti Semitism after this “exercise in freedom of speech”, they are truly mistaken. There may not be that many Jews left in the city of Vancouver, but it is a city full of minorities. Some of them may understand the old line of first they came for the Jews, etc. ……..
    The problem with Mayor Moonbeam is he like Trump doesn’t see much beyond their own beliefs and never truly see the big picture.

    (Response: When I studied political science in university, I recall one professor drawing a large circle on the board, with a line down the centre: if you started at the top …where centered politics began, and went either left or right …you would find the further extreme you wet, they would actually meet, appropriately at the BOTTOM! In other words fascists on the right and extremist leftists came together …each dictatorial, disrespectful, and as far away from the moderate centre …where MOST members of the public reside politically and ideologically. Still seems true today …and I believe whenever those extremists, on either side, gain power and start inflicting their prejudices and hard-line policies/attitudes on the majority ..it is our DUTY to expose, oppose and stop them. h.o)

  • 11 13.. // Sep 7, 2017 at 8:16 pm

    As if anyone needed another reason to be disgusted by Gregor and Vision. The politically correct left leaning politicians are social engineers gone bad.
    Between Trudeau and Robertson I fear that the damage will be irreversible.
    Sadly the NPA and the Conservative parties dont seem to be able to find leadership capable of removing the two amigos.

  • 12 DBW // Sep 7, 2017 at 9:33 pm

    Hey Harvey, in your response to my comment, you questioned my reading skills (again – lol) and BCMQ seems to think your response was “excellent”, so I JUST have to respond.

    Looks like you doubled down on the Anti-Semitic accusation. You certainly have the right to claim that City Hall is anti-Semitic but your evidence is still flimsy. Any other examples like the denial of a synagogue, business licenses etc.

    Now before anybody wants to jump in about some hidden agenda on my part.

    1. I don’t care at all about Vancouver civic politics. The last Vancouver mayor I had an opinion about was Campbell and no not Larry or Gordon but anti-hippie Tom. Other than Geoff Meggs who I understand is leaving, I couldn’t name one councillor.
    2. David Icke means nothing to me. Anybody who starts with the premise that our leaders are shift shaping lizards has no credibility.
    3. We still have a long way to go to rid our society of bigotry. And those who spout hate and discrimination should be exposed.

    So what’s my point here? It’s because once you use the anti-Semitic line, you have lowered the debate. It’s just like somebody accusing you, Harvey, of bigotry when you express a negative opinion about an issue dealing with First Nations or Muslims. It does nothing to advance the discussion.

    And the discussion which seems to be about the radical left was triggered by the decision to allow Icke to use the publicly owned Orpheum. (I am assuming that he had to pay the going rental fee.)

    Now even you have waffled. In your response to BMCQ you state

    they need NOT be provided taxpayer-funded facilities to spread their messages….

    unless EVERYONE can enjoy that right.

    So as long as everybody is given equal access is it OK? (Who, if anybody, has the city denied in the past?)

    You even suggested that Icke speak at private venues “and prosecuted if they violate hate laws”

    so why not the same for public venues.

    We have a fascinating issue here. The left have been accused particularly at universities some of which are publicly funded for shutting down the speaking engagements of various people.

    The question we have to ask ourselves is who is allowed to speak and where. If they are in violation of our hate laws it is a no brainer. Not only should they be denied access, they should be prosecuted.

    In that Vancouver Sun poll I linked, to the question

    Should the city cancel David Icke’s talk at the Orpheum?

    81.52% said no – free speech laws still apply.
    18.48% said yes – it is not appropriate for a city-owned venue.

    That’s a discussion worth having. And hopefully it will avoid David Icke-like conspiracy theories from Island Lookout

    “In a nut-shell left-wingers do not want anything to do with the democratic process.” Seriously??

  • 13 BMCQ // Sep 8, 2017 at 6:06 am

    I hope many here find the attached analysis of interest.

    Seems like there are others concerned about this phenomena.

    Rather strange how those on the Politically Correct Left attempt to disguise their Anti- Semitism is it not?

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/jan/4/why-the-sudden-hatred-of-israel/

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/anti-israel-liberals-are-normalizing-anti-semitism/article/2610586

    As I stated up the page I strongly feel that much Anti Semitic behavior is masked by many on the left who criticize the State of Israel because they feel that criticizing Israel is not as Blatant as outright Racism.

    I find it reprehensible that so many Liberal Elite Leftists find it so easy to criticize Israel when they really know nothing about the plight of Israel of the Jewish People.

    Keep in mind that Israel cannot afford to lose even ONE Battle because it will be their last.

    Can you blame them for defending their State and their Jewish People?

    Would we in Canada not want to defend ourselves against Terrorists within our Borders?

    Would we in Canada not want to defend our Country and Citizens from Rocket attacks only a few miles away?

    And Liberal Elite Leftists consider Israel and the Jewish Leadership the Aggressor?

    By the way, when was the last time you heard of a Jewish Homicide/Suicide Bomber walking into a Market Place in the EU, anywhere in the Middle East including Israel, or Northern Africa with a “Nail Bomb” strapped to his ass and then Detonating that Bomb?

    Here is another attachment with a report from a Liberal Elite who happens to be Mayor of Malmo Sweden, my Mothers Home.

    And just how secure do you think Jewish People feel in Malmo?

    Mayors like Mumbles Robertson and Liberal Elite Leftists in Cities like Vancouver and other Western Cities encourage and sow the seeds of Anti Semitism when they allow Hate Speech Merchants to spew their disgusting rhetoric in Public Spaces.

    Anti Semitism Hate is an Epidemic in Europe, we in Canada need to do better.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/04/is-it-time-for-the-jews-to-leave-europe/386279/

    I will be in Israel for two days Oct. 19 and I am looking forward to my time there very much.

    (Response: Amnesty International provided more proof Thursday of how one-sided and anti-Semitic the extreme left are in singling out only the Jewish state for virtually ALL their “human rights” motions, resolutions, boycott calls etc. Amnesty issued a horrific report on the state of human rights in Bahrain. You can read the info here: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2017/09/bahrain-a-year-of-brutal-government-repression-to-crush-dissent/. This, of course, is on top of NUMEROUS other reports and findings that show the sad state of human rights, torture, summary executions, forced expulsions, torching of homes in so many other nations, including Syria, Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Myanmar. Yet, where are the leftist unions, university groups, politicians, parties on those???? And Vision’s Vancouver City Hall stance to provide Dycke a PUBLIC venue to speak ADDS to the disgrace that increasingly is enveloping the far left … and frankly hurting the moderate centre left as well, because they say and do almost nothing to condemn/stop the seeping anti-Semitism in their midst. h.o.)

  • 14 BMCQ // Sep 8, 2017 at 7:58 am

    DBW – 12

    Even I do not agree with you on everything I am more than fully confident that you are very open and honest embracing person that embraces the “Equality for All” “Justice for Everyone” edict.

    I could never think of you endorsing or taking sides with a Bigot or Anti Semite.

    And I certainly would not accuse you of not reading or understanding anything, I am well aware that you take the time to consider many different things before you post and you are then very thoughtful with that Post content.

    I meant no criticism of you, I was enthusiastically endorsing the response of Harvey.

    I applauded the response of Harvey to you because of his comparisons of other situations he described and I agreed/agree with him.

    I do not know you DBW but I am quite sure that you would have been a great Teacher and I am also quite sure that the vast majority of your Students still look back at their Teacher DBW with Fondness and Respect.

    I only wish I would have had the opportunity to sit in that Classroom and have the ability to debate you on a few subjects.

    Please keep in mind that I did show concern up the page and ask the question of just WHO would determine what is “Hate Speech”?

    That is the One very large problem I have with Censorship of any kind and to be honest I could see a Leftist Mayor like Gregor Banning someone like an Ann Coulter from Speaking and that is where the Slope can get very slippery.

    I am however convinced that no Free and Democratic Country like Canada needs a David Icke.

    I neglected to attach the Analysis and Bizarre Comments of the Mayor of Malmo Sweden regarding the dramatic Rise of Anti-Semitism and Hate against Jewish People.

    http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-news-and-politics/96146/swedens-damn-jew-problem

    Thank you for Posting the VS Poll Results.

    However I do not endorse much of what On-Line Polling tells us.

    Most of the participants are much like the PD and On Air Hosts at CKNDP, they have An Agenda!!

    I am quite sure that POTUS HRC and Premier Adrian Dix might agree with me that Polling can be quite unreliable.

  • 15 seven // Sep 8, 2017 at 10:48 am

    While there are uniformed, anti-semitic leftists, there are too many exceptions to make this the rule. The likes of vile Icke, offends, and deeply disgusts my NDP friends and me, as much as Trump, and his henchmen do.

    On the other hand, I have witnessed both uneducated, opinionated, working class rednecks, and privileged right-voting professionals blame the centralization of wealth on Jewish people (name your conspiracy).

    I stood truly gobsmacked, while the board member on a non-profit: a ‘respected’, conservative physician casually asked another board member how they J*wed down a business which donated materials to said non-profit. Not the first time I’ve heard that ‘charming’ slur.

    Hate exists across the political spectrum.

    (Response: Yes it does. But what I find fascinating is how so many people think it’s just ignoramuses on the right who are bigoted, while those on the left are open, accepting … you know, loving and liberal. NOT! In fact, increasingly we are seeing a lot of intolerance and bias being displayed by those on the left: and whenever it is exercised … by those on the right OR left…it is the DUTY of the rest of us to call it out. And I believe Vision Vancouver City Hall’s totally double standard and what I see as a clearly anti-Semitic decision falls into that category. h.o.)

  • 16 E. Johnson // Sep 8, 2017 at 11:00 am

    Yes antisemitism has never gone away. It remains dormant for periods of time and then rears its ugly head at unexpected times and in unexpected places. This century has seen it rise steadily perhaps linked to to the information age we live in. Social media provides everyone with a platform to put forward their views on anything and everything. Society has divided into opposing ideologies eager to shame and silence each other. Mainstream media tend to overlook antisemitic speech and actions until they become so horrifyingly blatant they can’t be ignored. The UN has become a despicable organization. Vancouver city council is an example of free speech of convenience. If it fits the narrative of their ideaololgy then it is okay. If it doesn’t then the Mayor and his minions will stand before the cameras and declare it doesn’t belong in Vancouver. The old ” this is not who we are” message issued in very serious and sombre tones. Vote them out. It may be the only message that they will understand.

    (Response: Don’t get me started on the UN! It started with such high hopes …but what a sad meaningless organization it has become: run by overpaid bureaucrats who are not only very ineffective, but in many instances little more than a front for Muslim dictatorships pushing a Muslim agenda to spread Islamic presence and power throughout Europe, Asia, the Pacific and the Americas … all the while turning a blind eye to horrific human rights violations and barbaric tribal conflicts in Muslim lands … and then manipulating generous, caring Westerners to help fund the results … millions of Muslim refugees (Christians, Buddhists, Sikhs etc. need not even apply). And to prove they have a sense of humour, the UN then installs the worst of their human rights violators to sit on and even chair the UN Human Rights Council … one of the most biased orgs I have ever witnessed! And that’s just the START of my assessment of the UN! h.o)

  • 17 DonGar // Sep 8, 2017 at 1:20 pm

    Mayor and Vision are supported by Unions so their policies will align.

    http://www.torontosun.com/2017/08/31/anti-israel-motion-adopted-by-union

    (Response: Thanks for this. Makes my point perfectly about UNION bias and growing anti-Semitism, disguised as just being against “anti-Israeli” policies. Sure. Not so funny though that a MEDIA union passes no motions about the Arab countries or Turkey or Russia where journalists are regularly imprisoned and even killed …but zeroes in on the ONLY country in the entire mid East with a vibrant free press and strong UNION laws/movement. And they’re not being racist, anti-Semitic??? Disgraceful. Will blog more about this next week. h.o)

  • 18 e.a.f. // Sep 8, 2017 at 1:24 pm

    The Saudi’s as the chair of the UN’s human right’s committee was the icing on the cake for me. A country who suppresses the rights of women as the chair, omg. it was enough for me to wish Canada didn’t pay their dues as long as he was the chair. You can’t advocate for human rights with Saudi Arabia holding the chair. its disgusting and a slap in the face to all women, in all countries.

    BMCQ, they banned C. Rice from speaking???Ann Coulter I get, but C. Rice. She’s brilliant and accomplished. One of the good choices George Bush made. I’d pay money to hear her speak.

  • 19 BMCQ // Sep 8, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    e.a.f. – 18

    If memory serves Rice was shouted down at one Ivy League School and Activist Students rushed the Stage stood in front of her so the audience could not see or hear her.

    Then there is this.

    http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/04/us/condoleeza-rice-rutgers-protests/

    I strongly believe that if John McCain would have had Rice as his VP Running Mate we may have never heard about President Barak Obama.

    I believe you have just made part of my previous point when you state that you get why Coulter could be banned.

    Yes Coulter can be abrasive but she is bright, accomplished, and an excellent debater.

    Coulter is critical of Snowflake liberals but she is not a Hate Merchant.

    Coulter is someone that Students at university should see and listen to even if it is a debate between her and another Guest or Students or Faculty.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcSjpn5d3RY

    That is how people learn and evolve in their ideas and opinions, nothing better than a good argument discussion, and debate.

    We certainly not compare Coulter to anyone like Icke!!

    Your point supports my question up the page where I ask “Just who makes the choice of who represents Hate Speech”?

    I am quite sure my Definition would be much different than the current Mayor and Visionite Members of Vancouver Council.

    That is the Sticky Wicket. Who decides?

    Many World Countries are criticized for Human Rights Abuses, even Canada.

    But when you come to Middle Eastern countries, China, many African Countries and others most Western Countries are far superior when it comes to Human Rights, and Rights for other Groups such as Women, LGBTQ, Religious, and other obvious Minorities.

    Personally I only do Business with those Countries discussed when I am required to do so.

    My Company purchases a fair amount of Technical CNC Equipment and we purchase in order, U.S.A. South Korea, Germany, Taiwan, Germany.

    It is an insult to the human Race to have Countries like Libya, Saudi Arabia, China, or any of the other similar nations on the UN Security Council or any other UN Body, it makes me ill.

    Yes, where are all of the Righteous Liberal Elites in calling out any of those Countries when they find it so easy to vilify Israel and the Jewish People?

    I suppose one could also ask why is it Media of all types also seem to give Politicians a Free Pass on this Hypocrisy?

    Leftist Elite Liberals are always the first to demand Free Speech, that is of course unless you disagree with them!

    People like Mayor Gregor and his Minions actually believe they are doing “God’s Work” allowing someone like Icke to Speak at the Orpheum!!

  • 20 DBW // Sep 8, 2017 at 7:46 pm

    Whoa or maybe YIKES but BMCQ and I appear to have common ground.

    1. I appreciated the Washington Times and Washington Examiner articles which summed up what I believe Harvey is actually trying to say without once – notice – accusing anybody of being an anti-Semite. There were several reasons given for the rise in anti-Israeli sentiments, one being anti-Semitism. As much as the article criticised John Kerry’s stance on Israel, he was not accused of being anti-Semitic. And rightfully so. That’s my problem with Harvey. His accusation assumes a moral high ground and shuts down the debate of the actual issues being discussed.

    2. That’s not to say that the criticism of Israel at the expense of legitimate criticism of other regimes is not an important issue. It is. That’s why amnesty international is important. They call attention to all variety of regimes and abusers.

    3. “No free and democratic country like Canada needs a David Icke. ” Agreed.

    4. “Banning someone like Anne Coulter is where the slippery slope gets very slippery.” Absolutely. Don’t like her but I hate it when I see people like her and even jerks like Milo yahoo-anopolis (sp) shouted down. They should be challenged not silenced. I was extremely disappointed when Bill Maher had Milo on his show and spent most of the interview trying to see who was the most provocative. Maher lost me on that one.

    5. “Just who would determine what is hate speech.” Ain’t that the kicker. You are upset that Vancouver council allowed Icke to speak. So I see where you have drawn a line. You might be right. I really don’t know if Icke is hateful or just a loon.

    Right now I tend to lean on the side of error when it comes to free speech. I would rather both Icke and Coulter speak rather than neither, but I could be persuaded otherwise.

    6. You are also right when you question on line polls. Often you can vote more than once. But still those numbers say something.

    That’s why I would rather see arguments discussing that decision rather than the simple accusation that city hall is anti Semitic. I am sure you agree with me on that.

  • 21 Hawgwash // Sep 9, 2017 at 6:38 am

    Harvey;
    Thinking of you and all your Fl friends.

    (Response: Thanks! I keep watching! Looks like Irma is tracking more west…hopefully good news for my place, inland, north of Fort Lauderdale. But it’s so old…you never know! h.o)

  • 22 BMCQ // Sep 9, 2017 at 1:03 pm

    DBW – 20

    You and I have a lot more in common than you might think.

    Most of us even a high percentage of Public Sector Workers over 50 that work or have worked consistently hard for a living are very similar to each other when it comes to issues of Law and Order, Accountability, Compassion for others. and the sustainability of Social Programs.

    Where you and I would mainly differ is the fact that I like you want to ensure that ALL in our Society are looked after but I demand that each and every individual that is able to does their bit and contributes by working hard, obeying the Rule of Law, and Working and paying their Fair Share of Tax.

    1. I do not believe H.O. is claiming the High Ground on this issue. He is simply pointing out that Elected Officials like Mayor Gregor and his Visionite Minions are abdicating their responsibility and they are.

    You can be sure that they would be the first to shut down anyone labeled as a Rightist”.

    The fact is there is more than enough evidence from just the attachments that I have posted that shows there are FAR TOO Many Leftist Elite Liberals that masquerade as critics of Israel when in fact there is a slight Ting of Anti-Semitism to their actions/thoughts.

    2. Amnesty International do in fact provide information on many wrongs but they are very much influenced by their Leftist Elitist Liberal Ideologies. AI is very much Anti American and very much Anti Israel and they see both as Colonials living of the backs of the poor and disenfranchised. The Pope is no different.

    In fact much of the Climate Change lobby is much the same, they use man Caused CC as a way to Redistribute the Wealth from Prosperous Developed Nations.

    People mumble about 140 Nations signing on to “Paris”, correct?

    Well guess what, about 125 of those nations are Countries Without/Have Not and Of Course they will sign on they will be Net Receivers of “Guilt Money” from industrialized Nations like Canada and the U.S. China and India will not be participating in that for 25 or more years so they get a “Pass” and our Work Force and Manufacturing Sector Suffers in many ways.

    Of course those 125 would sign on, who would not?

    3.

    Icke and other hate Merchants should not be allowed to speak but again who decides. in the case of Vancouver Gregor and his minions have chosen to ignore him.

    As Harvey points out they seem to criticize Israel but ignore others like middle Eastern Countries and the rest that Oppress Gays, LGBTQ, Women, Minorities, and the rest, where are Gregor and PM Justin on that?

    Ann Coulter is a Conservative but I ask you to watch a handful of her debates much like I posted and you will soon have a different opinion of her. Coulter and any other Lefiist should be participating on a different University Stage each Saturday Evening every week of the year.

    You know better than I do that this would be good for ALL Students regardless of their Leanings.

    Watch the Coulter with Uber Liberal Van Jones I attached, everyone at university could benefit by watching and listening to that discussion.

    As it stands now Canadian Uuniversities and obviously those in the U,S. are a Hot bed of Leftist loons that want no exchange of ideas or dialogue of anything Political.

    “Who needs Factual Information when One has ideology”!!! Correct?

    5.
    Again, who decides? Is that why we have City councils, University Presidents, Premiers, and “Yikes’ Prime Ministers?

    6.
    Of course I am correct about Polls!

    My Biggest concern is that Media use the Polls to sway/influence the “Great Unwashed” and most in the Media are Liberal Elites.

    But of course that did not work with Brexit or DJT did it?

    Each and every time the polls told the U.S. Voter that President “O” and his Wife were very popular and their decision to Campaign for HRC they were misleading Hillary and themselves.

    The polls show Obama as being popular but the People were sick and tired of his Race Based Presidency, his appointment of People like Eric holder and Lynch and they Voted for anyone but Hillary and that was GOP!

    Only my Opinion but I honestly DO feel that Vision Council members and they Mayor are either Anti Semitic or they are being influenced by Gregor and a few others.

    I believe that FAR TOO many on the Left see Jewish People and Israel as Rich manipulative Greedy People that the Nazi Party and their Propagandist Henchmen painted them as.

    As to Bill Mahr?

    Mahr is an Arrogant, Dishonest, Usurious, Manipulative, Hater, and Hypocrite of many that uses his Pulpit to further his own position.

    He could be for you one day and against you the next depending on what he needed to further his own desires.

    Mahr spend much of his Life hanging out with Hugh Hefner at the Mansion taking advantage of any Young “Star Struck” Female wanting to get ahead in the Entertainment Field and he never missed an opportunity to take advantage of his so called position.

    https://bernardgoldberg.com/bill-mahers-hypocrisy-knows-no-bounds/

    Do not know much/anything about Milo.

    In closing I would offer the opinion that Vision and Mayor Gregor are at best guilty of letting a hate Merchant Spew his Bigotry and hate and they should have said NO.

    You can be sure of one thing, if Icke had promised to hold his Talk on the Granville bridge and Halt ALL Traffic for a 24 Hour Period Gregor and his Minions would close the Bridge that day!

  • 23 e.a.f. // Sep 9, 2017 at 10:27 pm

    why any group would want to shout down Cond. Rice is beyond me. she is a gracious person with great intellect. plays classical piano also.

    O.K. here we go BMCQ, we might agree here, yes I think Rice and McCain would have made a good team. Don’t know if they would have beat Obama and Uncle Joe, but the other ticket, yes it would have been good. Perhaps when the Republicans are ready to be a real party again, they should consider Ms. Rice as a Pres. and V.P. candidate or the Dems. With the ways things are going in the U.S.A if Bush 2 ran with Ms. Rice they might win. Yes, we never realized how good Bush 2 was until we compared him to Trump.

    At least Bush wasn’t a racist and he carried himself with dignity when he was president.

    off topic”: a comment on an American blog: with the U.S.A having massive forest fires in Oregon and California, hurricanes in Texas and Florida there are 5 former Presidents saying, glad its not me. There is then a nation saying wish we had one of the other 5 living Presidents in office.

    So back on topic. Given the line Vision is taking with a bi election coming up, perhaps there will be a candidate who would run who isn’t an idiot. Although from the declared candidates not much has been produced. The NPA looks like it isn’t going to improve any time soon.

    If Vision’s decision to let a racist rent a public facility and there are “problems” later I do trust Mayor Moonbeam has a plan b.

  • 24 DBW // Sep 9, 2017 at 11:37 pm

    Well I thought we had common ground, but if you actually believe

    “You can be sure of one thing, if Icke had promised to hold his Talk on the Granville bridge and Halt ALL Traffic for a 24 Hour Period Gregor and his Minions would close the Bridge that day!”

    then all bets are off.

    When David Icke says that US Presidents and the Royal Family are shape shifting lizards and part of a conspiracy to control the world, then anything he says after that means nothing to me. I will doubt anything he has to say about anything even things I may agree with -like the sky is blue. He has lost all credibility.

    The same goes for your closing the bridge comment. You are a smart person. You have ideas that I don’ t always agree with, but I am willing to listen. Why would you blow all of your credibility by suggesting the mayor would shut down traffic on Granville Bridge to allow David Icke a chance to speak. It’s absurd.

    Why would I listen to anything Island Lookout says when he states categorically

    “In a nut-shell left-wingers do not want anything to do with the democratic process.”

    or

    “perhaps lefties feel inferior to successful, independent souls who enjoy life.”

    or perhaps not. I am a leftie and that doesn’t describe me at all.

    or you again

    “I always find it laughable how Leftists so often call for “Free Speech” but ONLY if you agree with them!!”

    Well isn’t this interesting because I am a leftist who completely disagrees with David Icke but I am more willing to let him speak than you are. BTW how do you feel about George Soros. Yeh, Icke does not like him either.

    And while I am at it and to be fair, I generally agree with Gene the Bean, but it doesn’t do him much good either when he lumps all BC Liberal voters as morally bankrupt although in his defense I recall him giving reasons for that opinion.

    And that is why I am upset here. Where are the reasons – plural – for the accusation that Vancouver city council is anti-Semitic. One reason – they allowed an anti-Semitic nutjob access to the Orpheum. That’s it.

    Icke believes the moon is hollow. Does city council believe the moon is hollow. David Icke believes in shape shifting lizards. Does city council. David Icke believes that Hillary Clinton is a coke using lesbian. Does city council. David Icke doesn’t believe we should be helping the Syrian people. Does city council?

    Why pick one of his theories and tar the city with that brush.

    Read more about the horrid David Icke if you want.

    https://marlonsolomon.wordpress.com/2017/01/04/forget-the-lizards-david-icke-is-dangerous/

    But if you read the article, note that the writer admits that Icke has the right to his views. But we should be challenging those views.

    Calling people who support his right to free speech as anti-Semites is not challenging Icke and his views. It is not even challenging the people who support his right to free speech. It’s name calling.

    To be absolutely clear, I am not disputing Harvey’s claim about the over criticism of Israel that might give rise to the unintended consequence of normalizing anti-Semitism. That Examiner article that you linked was excellent. And I am not even disputing Harvey when he says that the city was wrong to allow Icke access to the Orpheum. There are plenty of good reasons for that stance just as there are plenty of good reasons for allowing Icke to speak. It’s a good debate.

    We all have opinions and nobody – especially me – can claim he is infallible. But if people are going to make over the top claims like Robertson would shut the bridge or city council is anti-Semitic or lefties don’t believe in the democratic process, it would be nice to see some support for those contentions.

    Rant over.

  • 25 DBW // Sep 10, 2017 at 10:50 am

    http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/anti-semitic-conspiracy-theorist-david-icke-gives-talk-vancouver

    e.a.f was worried about “problems” occurring at the David Icke event. I was curious too. I didn’t even know when it occurred. Googled “David Icke Vancouver show review” and of all the hits, the only relevant one was this story from the Canadian Jewish News. It’s actually an excellently written balanced account of the controversy and includes information about the show that took place LAST weekend. No indication of problems. No media presence. Only 1000-1500 tickets sold (so he aint Taylor Swift). A recording of the event exists but nobody has yet checked to see if he broke any Canadian hate laws (he had promised not to mention Jews prior to the event). It sounds more like a non-event than anything else.

    BTW, like Gene the Bean, I had never heard of David Icke prior to reading Harvey’s blog. Unintended consequences, our talking about him gave him more exposure than he ever deserved.

  • 26 BMCQ // Sep 10, 2017 at 12:23 pm

    e.a.f.

    DBW

    I can be somewhat and also a bit impatient.

    My Sarcastic Comment about the Burrard Bridge Shutdown was nothing more than that.

    In my opinion Mayor Gregor will use ANY Event he can, Leftist, Rightist, Protests whatever he comes along to shut down a Street or b?ridge in Vancouver. Anyone that lives in YVR or Vancouver proper is aware of that.

    I was simply pointing out that he would close the Bridge for Icke or even your friend Milo, simply a “Shot’ at Gregor.

    Mayor Gregor for some reason has a ‘War Against the Car” he wants nothing more to be recognized as a Green Mayor and he really could care less about anything else including the Hard Working Over Taxed Citizens of Vancouver.

    Only my opinion but I also also believe he Hates Israel and anything “Free Enterprise” even though he was once in Business.

    I believe SOME Leftist Elite Liberals are Anti Semitic just as there are many on the Right like Nazi’s that also dislike/despise Jewish People but those on the Right are more Blatant and Obvious with their Actions and Behavior.

    Again, only my opinion but I believe those Subtle Anti Israel/Anti-Semitics on the Left are much more careful with their Anti Jewish behavior but none the less they ARE Haters of Jewish People.

    Do not misunderstand me, it is obvious that we have many hate Mwerchants on the Far Right, but we must be aware of those leftists that Hate Israel and seem to be against anything Jewish.

    Please go back up the page where I attached info on Anti Semitism in Europe, it is Real and it is Dangerous.

    It is not just Far Right Skin Heads that are Anti Jewish. Gene the Bean also recognizes that there are those on the Left that are Bigots.

    Again as Harvey points out, where are PM Justin, Mayor Gregor, his Visionite minions, why do they not call out Icke, why are they not calling out middle Eastern countries, China, and so many others for their Human Rights Violations?

    We still do have Common Ground, I more than likely did not make my comment about the bridge clear enough, the comment was meant to illustrate that Gregor would “Dance with the Devil” if he thought the Bridge could be shut down for a day.

    Mayor Gregor would Shut the Bridge Down even if Joseph Stalin was holding a Yoga Event on the Bridge. Get it?

    Gee, hasn’t that been attempted once already?

    Again, I must admit that I DO have concerns about who Bans/Cancels Events in Publicly owned Buildings.

    I would really hate to see a Leftist council Banning someone on the fringes of the Right and I would hate to see a Conservative Mayor and Council Banning/Cancelling someone on the Left Fringe.

    Honestly I would have more confidence in a Panel struck from 7 different Participants on this Blog making such decisions than I would from most elected Politicians.

    Especially when their is a Majority like the Vision Council.

    Harvey really opened a Can of Worms here and again as usual when Israel or Jewish People are part of the subject the participation from regulars here is very disappointing.

    There should be much more discussion on this matter than what we have witnessed to this point.

    I hope I clarified a few things with this post.

    ……………………

    BTW – I am very Happy with the Growth and the Economic Development taking place in Prince Rupert!

    Wonderful for that very important City on the North Coast.

  • 27 BMCQ // Sep 10, 2017 at 12:29 pm

    e.a.f.

    DBW

    I can be somewhat sarcastic and also a bit impatient.

    My Sarcastic Comment about the Burrard Bridge Shutdown was nothing more than that.

    In my opinion Mayor Gregor will use ANY Event he can, Leftist, Rightist, Protests whatever he comes along to shut down a Street or b?ridge in Vancouver. Anyone that lives in YVR or Vancouver proper is aware of that.

    I was simply pointing out that he would close the Bridge for Icke or even your friend Milo, simply a “Shot’ at Gregor.

    Mayor Gregor for some reason has a ‘War Against the Car” he wants nothing more to be recognized as a Green Mayor and he really could care less about anything else including the Hard Working Over Taxed Citizens of Vancouver.

    Only my opinion but I also also believe he Hates Israel and anything “Free Enterprise” even though he was once in Business.

    I believe SOME Leftist Elite Liberals are Anti Semitic just as there are many on the Right like Nazi’s that also dislike/despise Jewish People but those on the Right are more Blatant and Obvious with their Actions and Behavior.

    Again, only my opinion but I believe those Subtle Anti Israel/Anti-Semitics on the Left are much more careful with their Anti Jewish behavior but none the less they ARE Haters of Jewish People.

    Do not misunderstand me, it is obvious that we have many hate Mwerchants on the Far Right, but we must be aware of those leftists that Hate Israel and seem to be against anything Jewish.

    Please go back up the page where I attached info on Anti Semitism in Europe, it is Real and it is Dangerous.

    It is not just Far Right Skin Heads that are Anti Jewish. Gene the Bean also recognizes that there are those on the Left that are Bigots.

    Again as Harvey points out, where are PM Justin, Mayor Gregor, his Visionite minions, why do they not call out Icke, why are they not calling out middle Eastern countries, China, and so many others for their Human Rights Violations?

    We still do have Common Ground, I more than likely did not make my comment about the bridge clear enough, the comment was meant to illustrate that Gregor would “Dance with the Devil” if he thought the Bridge could be shut down for a day.

    Mayor Gregor would Shut the Bridge Down even if Joseph Stalin was holding a Yoga Event on the Bridge. Get it?

    Gee, hasn’t that been attempted once already?

    Again, I must admit that I DO have concerns about who Bans/Cancels Events in Publicly owned Buildings.

    I would really hate to see a Leftist council Banning someone on the fringes of the Right and I would hate to see a Conservative Mayor and Council Banning/Cancelling someone on the Left Fringe.

    Honestly I would have more confidence in a Panel struck from 7 different Participants on this Blog making such decisions than I would from most elected Politicians.

    Especially when their is a Majority like the Vision Council.

    Harvey really opened a Can of Worms here and again as usual when Israel or Jewish People are part of the subject the participation from regulars here is very disappointing.

    There should be much more discussion on this matter than what we have witnessed to this point.

    I hope I clarified a few things with this post.

    Tomorrow Morning I am going to send your attached Marlon Solomon Icke Piece to Mayor Gregor and every Vancouver City Council Member regardless of Party affiliation.

    ……………………

    BTW – I am very Happy with the Growth and the Economic Development taking place in Prince Rupert!

    Wonderful for that very important City on the North Coast.

    P

  • 28 Harry lawson // Sep 10, 2017 at 2:28 pm

    I have sat back and read the responses, I am surprised that not only we are having discussions about condemning anti semantic behaviours .

    I have known a man who I greatly respect who had the tattoo of numbers on his arm , he was the only survivor of his family period to survive the camps.

    When the orpheum was being renovated in the 70″s he donated money towards the refurbishment for the arts and cultural community . The city of Vancouver had no business renting this venue or any venue to a hate monger. This is not the culture my friend envisioned at the Orpheum.

    (Response: Interesting. I have not mentioned it before, but too donated enough to the Orpheum Theatre restoration to have my name installed on the glass mural in the main hall. However, I don’t blame the theatre or the theatre board: I believe the FAULT lies solely with the radical LEFT now running Vancouver City Hall …who, as I said, would NEVER allow anyone with a “CV” like Icke ‘s …. if directed against Muslims, Asians, First Nations or ANYONE other than Jewish people to use a public Vancouver facility to spew their ideas. THERE’s the shame off it all … made all the worse by the media’s failure to realize the significance of what happened and REALLY go after this story! h.o)

  • 29 e.a.f. // Sep 10, 2017 at 3:17 pm

    if Stalin was going to hold a yoga event on the bridge I would say, go for it?! at least he has come back from the dead and we would finally know if there is an after life. who cares what he has to say. Stalin, may not even know if he was left or right. He simply wanted all the power to do things the way he wanted and he was prepared to let everyone and any one die. We have only to see how far he went when millions upon millions died in the Ukraine. I don’t think Stalin was either right or left, he was simply going to make Russia great again and now we have his re incarnation, Putin and Trump.

    Some of these politicians simply use hatred of one group or another to advance their goals/careers. Whatever principles they once held fell along the way side.

    AS Far as racism and hatred goes, we have only to look at Burma these days to see what is going on while most simply watch and do nothing, beyond a few other Nobel prize holders calling out the current leader. AS my Mother used to say about the Holocaust, it can happen again. It has, again and again around the world, just with different groups. Our tribalism is very close to the surface. We as a species haven’t come as far as we’d like to think.

  • 30 13.. // Sep 10, 2017 at 6:19 pm

    eaf another great deflection, Burma?
    For the life of me can someone please tell me why the NPA cant find a candidate to run against (edited..h.o) Gregor? Surely there must be a failed BC Liberal that might be able to lead the NPA to a victory over (edited..h.o) named Robertson. Darling? Clark?
    As always Im glad I dont live in Vancouver
    ps Im pretty happy I dont live in South Abby either

  • 31 DBW // Sep 10, 2017 at 8:52 pm

    Hi BMCQ

    Thanks for clarifying your “sarcastic” bridge comment. It is hard to pick up sarcasm when you are discussing one issue and then a “sarcastic” comment about a totally unrelated topic is randomly tossed in.

    Now could you help me here. You said,

    “Where you and I would mainly differ is the fact that I like you want to ensure that ALL in our Society are looked after but I demand that each and every individual that is able to does their bit and contributes by working hard, obeying the Rule of Law, and Working and paying their Fair Share of Tax.”

    Are you suggesting that I don’t expect people to work hard, obey the law, and pay their fair share of tax. or were you being sarcastic?

    In your preamble to the above, you stated

    Most of us even a high percentage of Public Sector Workers over 50 that work or have worked consistently hard for a living are very similar to each other when it comes to issues of Law and Order, Accountability, Compassion for others. and the sustainability of Social Programs.

    why the need to include public sector workers especially with EVEN a high percentage?

    and why the need to throw in the over 50? Showing your ageism.

    My kids and the mayor of my town happen to be millenials and I have no worries about being in their hands.

    That’s my point, Harvey. Unsubstantiated generalizations just plain suck. And I am not just talking about BMCQ. He just happens to be the one responding to me. All of us, myself included, can plead guilty.

    But I will say that I have learned something here. Anti-Semitism exists. I don’t understand it, but it exists and it should be fought. That’s not news.

    But I really want to emphasize, the article that BMCQ linked about the unintended consequences of Israel bashing which I think is your main point regardless of how you phrased it. But I am going to take it a bit further.

    We have to be careful about what we say. On a simple level, BMCQ’s over 50 comment is a knock on the young whether it was intentional or not. It kind of gives the excuse that we can bash those “lazy snowflake”millenials.

    When we bash Muslim dominated countries for their human rights violations (and rightfully so) are we giving an excuse for those who hate Muslim refugees coming to this country?

    I could give other examples.

    The same obviously applies to criticism of Israel. What is the intended outcome? What are the untended outcomes? We should be challenging each other AND ourselves with those questions all the time.

    I am glad that BMCQ is writing to city council? I will be interested to see what they have to say. I just hope he emphasizes the possible unintended consequence of normalizing anti-Semitism rather than accusing them of anti-Semitism. I don’t want him looking at a $5M defamation suit.

    Thanks for giving us a platform to express our views.

    (Response: I think it’s important to point out I do NOT object to criticism of ANY country, ANY government, ANY society. My concerns arise when a single country, a single government or a single society is singled out … especially repeatedly … for “special treatment”, propaganda and discrimination … while others who do the exact same thing or even worse …in some cases MUCH worse …. are given a pass. That to me smacks of terrible bias and in many cases discrimination and racism and I just CANNOT let it pass without exposing and denouncing it as much as I can. While sadly acknowledging it happens so often and is so widespread in the world, I cannot keep up with it all … and depend on other voices, like those on here, to also pick up the fight for fairness. h.o.)

  • 32 BMCQ // Sep 11, 2017 at 10:34 am

    DBW – 30

    I believe we should all expect people that are able to work, provide for their loved ones, obey the Law, and pay their all lawful Taxes owed, regardless of income.

    Only my opinion but I believe there is a certain number of Public Sector Workers are no different than others and that LOW number may take advantage of Benefits like Sick Days and Stress Leave.

    I believe there is enough evidence of that so thee is no need to go on.

    You may also recall that I have stated several times that PSW are the Back Bone of the Province, but ALL are not perfect.

    My Son is 28 and IMHO he is doing well, but that might be better judged by others.

    We hire People in my business and I know many others that employee people, no matter how anyone would like to Spin it MANY (not all) between 20 and 35 are unreliable, late, miss many days due to illness and they do not last very long at their jobs.

    That opinion comes from my own experience, observation, and other comments from those that supervise or another wise employ those same mostly White Male Millenials.

    I do not want to bash anyone, just an observation of a lot more people than me.

    I also believe that a lot of our problem with Anti Israel and Anti-Semitism behavior in society today comes from many Leftist Liberal Elites in all walks off life that either intentionally or inadvertently Teach younger people and or Students that Israel is Evil and somehow the message seems to cause those same Students/Younger People to equate Jsome/many Jewish People with the much hated Israel.

    Again, ONLY My Opinion but I feel this either intended or unintended message paints Israel and Jewish People in a bad light.

    People like Mayors and City council Members should be very sensitive on this problem and they should speak out.

    It was only a few weeks ago that Social Justice Warrior demanded that the Citizens come out of their 250 Sq. Ft. Apartments and challenged a “Free Speech” Rally that was to take place Downtown.

    No One showed up but the usual suspects than we see at every other Protest!!

    Just how do those same People get so much time off work to Protest?

    They must save their vacation time.

    Mayor Gregor and his Group should have taken charge of the Icke Event and they should have told him he was not welcome in a City owned Facility.

    Again, where is Mayor Gregor, PM Justin and the rest when Countries like China, Middle Eastern Countries, and the rest encourage or in fact commit Human Rights Violations?

    Why is Gregor and his Group not talking about abuses of LGBTQ, Women, Children in those Countries in the Middle East?

    Now that it has been confirmed the Event was already held I may have second thoughts about contacting Mayor Gregor and the rest of Council.

    I will need to give it some thought before I do anything along those lines.

    Again DBW I am only one person with some opinions about various things I see and have seen take place as time goes on.

    Israel and the Jewish People have more than enough on their hands than needing to worry about Hate Merchants like Icke and any other Anti-Semite here in North America, the EU, or anywhere else in the World.

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/anti-semitism-in-france/

  • 33 DBW // Sep 11, 2017 at 8:43 pm

    Sorry Harvey

    BMCQ I have read #31 twice and I am not sure if you get what I am saying. Reread my #30, I emphasized that the article you had linked had taught me that we have to be careful of the unintended consequences of some of the things we say. I admitted that I was using your words as an example because they were there not because I felt that you were the only culprit. We are all guilty at times.

    Instead of just saying “hey you’re welcome. Glad you got something out of it. We should all be careful etc.”, you actually doubled down.

    You continued your attack on public sector workers. Now, I am not going to defend public sector workers. You can have whatever opinion you want. You may even be right. I am just trying to point out the unintended consequences of your words.

    First of all, imagine if someone had said

    “most of us even a high percentage of Jews …”

    How would you react? Would you be satisfied with the defense, “All are not perfect”.

    Of course no single group is perfect. So what was the person’s intent. Were they trying to perpetuate a stereotype through a backhanded compliment. Were they trying to piss off the person they were talking to?

    That’s my point, BMCQ, if you want me to be sympathetic to you, it might help if you didn’t attack (unintentionally perhaps) a group I belong to especially when they aren’t even part of the conversation. Again, I am not going to argue Public Sector Workers. Of course some are bad. Every single group has their bad apples. But defining a group based on its bad apples is the beginnings of prejudice and discrimination and bigotry.

    Same with your comments about age which bugs me even more. Not sure how old you are, but I am a boomer. What did our parents think of us? Aren’t we defined as the hippie, entitled generation? Somehow we got here and somehow we have the audacity to criticize the millenials for all the sins that we are just as guilty of or at least accused of. Of course kids in the work force have faults. It is part of the learning process. We don’t criticize older workers because they have figured it out.

    Maybe its because I taught high school for 30+ years and saw kids struggle through trying to find their place. Yes, some fail, but it is hoot talking to them in their 20s, 30s, 40s and even 50s as they fix my car or clean my teeth or repair my roof or give me investment advice or whatever. And some of them are openly honest about the mistakes they made. Please, attacking the young for the mistakes of a few is no different than the bigotry directed at ethnic groups. The kids are alright.

    End of another rant Harvey.

  • 34 BMCQ // Sep 11, 2017 at 9:50 pm

    DBW – 32

    I am no different than you, I have friends and family that are PSW and as I have pointed out several times PSW are the Backbone of our Province but as you are very well aware there is a disproportionate number of PSW that use the Contract to their advantage.

    I have already stated that I am very confident that you were a good Teacher etc etc.

    I also know some that take advantage of Sick Days and other Benefits and I also know you are aware of abuses and I ask you to deny that fact and tell me I am wrong.

    One big reason this is more common with PSW than others is because of the Generous Nature of those Contracts.

    I am going to speculate that many others in the Private Sector Union or Non may also abuse the Benefits in the same way if the opportunity was there.

    I have life long friends and family that are BCTF and other PSW and they tell me stories of abuse on a regular basis.

    I believe a certain number of BCTF are very Political and Anti B.C. liberal in the Classroom.

    My Son played College Golf in the U.S. and also attended UVic. He could not believe the Anti U.S., Anti Israel, and Anti B.C. Liberal, and Anti Federal Conservative propaganda he heard from Teachers on several occcasions.

    If you are honest with me you will admit these things do happen.

    Again, I am not painting all PSW with a Broad Brush but…….

    I am not attacking a whole group but if it walks like a Duck and if it Talks…………

    NOT ALL but far too many Mil White Males have been allowed to stay up all night until the early morning playing with Video Games or Social Media and they are then incapable of getting off to work early or on time. It becomes a Life Pattern and they cannot hold jobs let alone be successful at University.

    Talk to other Parents, look around and see which Groups make up the majority of Students at UBC, who is graduating as Drs., Lawyers, Dentists, Researchers, and the rest.

    You may not want to recognize the truth for what it is but spend some time at UBC or SFU and the answer is obvious.

    I am not attacking anyone, I am attempting inform Parents of Elementary Students and even Younger Children that it is their responsibility to PARENT and ensure their Child is prepared for the future.

    We owe it to our Children to make sure they are ready to face the future and that future is not spending each and every night up until the wee hours playing Video Games.

    Politicians like Mayor Gregor, PM Justin and the rest also need to do their part by doing everything they can to denounce Hate Speech and not give a forum to people like David Icke.

    If our Political Leaders (Yikes) do not take a stand those younger impressionable Canadians will come to believe that Anti Semitische or Racism, or other Hate is acceptable.

    I do not intend to attack or denounce PSW or White Male Millennials, I am however attempting to point out some concerns I have and I am fully confident I am correct and I am positive many agree with me. Some people jüst don’t want to point out the obvious.

  • 35 BMCQ // Sep 12, 2017 at 4:23 am

    It is very nice of Harvey to allow you some “Free Skating Time” on this although I feel we are still somewhat loosely on topic.

    I replied earlier on another Computer but I believe this will come up after that.

    I understand what you are saying with your 4th to last paragraph beginning with

    “That’s my point” but I am not attacking a whole group, I am pointing out what I feel to be factual in reference to SOME Public Sector Workers including Educators.

    That is not insulting you, that is not insulting ALL BCTF or PSW, that is an opinion I have come to after much argument, discussion, debate, and the fact I have made great efforts to become informed.

    Of course my suggested percentage may be off/incorrect somewhat.

    Trying to keep this to Icke , I believe that SOME Public Elementary and H.S. Teachers are far too Political in the classroom.

    That does not mean I am attacking ALL BCTF Members.

    But Schools are places paid for by the Public and like Icke making Hate Speech in a Public Building is not much different than someone in the BCTF Speaking out and vilifying the B.C. Liberal Government.

    How many of those same BCTF Members will speak out against the Horgan NDP Government?

    Any guess DBW? What percentage of the BCTF will criticize the NDP Government?

    Of course Teachers should Teach Politics but their approach should be Balanced and Fair, they should present facts not opinions and their own ideology.

    Is that attacking YOUR whole group?

    We see more of the Speech Controversy in the U.S. at this time where even Republican Centrist Politicians are considered Hate Mongers.

    HELL in many U.S. Colleges they are offering the services of Psychologists for the Poor Snowflakes and Safe Spaces in case their Feelings are Hurt!!

    I know nothing about Ben Shapiro but someone I do Business with in SFO mentioned his appearance to me when I mentioned this topic on the Blog.

    I have not even read the piece yet so I hope it does not muddy the waters. It does however shed some light on what is going on at U Cal.

    http://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-ln-sd-berkeley-security-20170909-story.html

    I would want Haters like Icke Banned from Public Spaces and Buildings we need a better way of making the decision of who is Hate and who is not.

    Coulter is not a hater, she is a Conservative Pundit, As stated I do not know anything about Shapiro.

    I believe I am repeating myself when I say “How do we do decide who appears and who does not appear”?

    Mayor Gregor and his Visionites should be up to the task but they cannot be trusted and they are so ideological I am convinced they could not be honest, objective, or fair in making a ruling.

    I have attached a couple of things that you might find interesting.
    the first one is about the number of White Students at UBC and it ties into my suggestion that Youngish/Millennial Males are not in my opinion doing well in their education or in their ability move on/advance in life successfully.

    Things are much different in Prince Rupert, Prince George, Williams lake, Cite “C” where those similar types of young men see hard working parents rising early getting off to work and providing for their families.

    Those Students/young men learn by example from their Parents and they rise early, work hard and provide for themselves and their families at a relatively young age.

    Young Males in Vancouver Proper and YVR are catered to by doting Parents that make no demands of them and hold them accountable for nothing and it is a mistake and will turn out to be catastrophic for many.

    I see it on a regular basis and so do most of my friends in Business.

    I have many close friends in many different types of business and they see the same thing with younger white Males. Of course they are not all underachievers but…….

    Friends of mine in the Dental Industry are hiring dozens of Trained Dental Technicians from the Philippines because they are well trained, very skilled,they are never late, never abuse sick time, and they are not Drama Queen Snowflakes.

    Before anyone chimes in with “They work for less’ that is certainly not the case. In fact in most cases they are paid more than industry Standard because they are worth more in most cases.

    Any comment about the following attachment?

    http://vancouversun.com/news/staff-blogs/one-in-six-ubc-students-are-white-males

    I find this disturbing and I believe we need to wake up if we wish to ensure that these same young White Males in Major Urban Centres are to become productive contributors to Families and Society in General.

    Again, I am not attacking any one Group but a fairly high percentage of the Groups discussed.

    One day when you come to Vancouver we can discuss this over a Glass of Wine.

  • 36 DBW // Sep 12, 2017 at 9:00 pm

    Sorry Harvey, but he tripled down so please bear with me.

    But first. BMCQ has accused me in the past of not answering his questions. I will start by answering some even though they aren’t really on topic.

    1. The BCTF will criticize the NDP more often than the Business Council criticized the Liberals. The BCTF and the NDP had a love/hate relationship in the ’90s. Guaranteed though: If the NDP ripped up contracts and fought the BCTF in court for 15 years, the NDP would lose the vast majority of whatever teacher support they ever had. And I have no idea what that support is. I know teachers who vote Liberal some because they like the Liberals and some because they hate the NDP.

    2. Nobody is questioning that there are lots of alienated youth. Those kids playing video games today are the same kids who were smoking dope and dropping acid (both on the decline with today’s youth) when we were young adults.

    3. Nobody is doubting that people game the system. I hate it whether it’s public sector workers, greedy businessmen, or lying BC Liberals. See how easy it is to select a group.

    And that’s the point which you seem to be missing in your zeal to score debating points, off topic debating points.

    Go back to post 20 where I said Yikes we have common ground and I listed six. The only points of difference I noted were that I was probably a bit more “liberal” in allowing obnoxious viewpoints being heard and that you and Harvey didn’t have enough evidence to suggest that city council was anti-Semitic. I didn’t say you were wrong on either count. Just that we disagreed and I needed more evidence.

    And how did you respond. You said we were different because you

    demand that each and every individual that is able to does their bit and contributes by working hard, obeying the Rule of Law, and Working and paying their Fair Share of Tax.

    and I thought what does that say of me? Simply put, you think I don’t expect people to work hard, obey the law and pay their fair share of taxes.

    and to punctuate your point you continued on by generalizing about public sector workers and people under 50.

    Now, I really don’t care what you think about me. But I am interested in why you think that. And there is only one conclusion. That is your generalization about lefties. You think of me as a leftie. Therefore …

    It is faulty logic. Just as faulty as

    Some radical leftist are anti-Semitic (true), Vancouver city hall is run by radical leftists (perhaps true),
    Therefore, city hall is anti-Semitic. It fails the logic test.

    It’s the kind of goofball logic that conspiracists like David Icke use.

    And I am not condemning you. We all fall into that trap. That’s why I said we need to be careful of the things we say and the unintended consequences. You don’t appear to be acknowledging that. You would rather continue arguing off topic points.

    And continuing on topic. Ben Shapiro is a conservative pundit. I checked on Wikipedia. He doesn’t sound like someone who should be banned or even shouted down. Challenged for sure. Silenced not at all. Read about him. You would probably like him.

    When some people at UCLA were debating BDS, he spoke against and his arguments sounded almost exactly like Harvey. Almost word for word. Check it out. You too Harvey. The resolution was defeated. Although the undergraduate society later voted for BDS the university itself has no interest at all in divesting.

    Again, I know little about the guy. Not sure what else makes him hated, but I kind of like him for this reason alone. He said,

    “As the fellow who receives hook-nosed Jew memes more than any other journalist on the planet, I don’t believe that people ought to be suspended or banned from Twitter or Facebook for posting vile garbage, so long as it isn’t openly advocating violence. I make a habit of retweeting these pieces of human feces in order to mock their stupidity and to expose the fact that people like this exist.”

    He sounds very much like someone who would let David Icke speak. Then mock him.

  • 37 BMCQ // Sep 13, 2017 at 6:17 am

    DBW – 35

    We may disagree on this discussion but I do not want to start WW III over the debate either.

    I also do not want you upset with me because I happen to have a different opinion than you on this.

    Again, I have friends and family that are PSW, Millennials, and the rest.

    Of course there are plenty of Business People, men and women that are crooked and they should be held to account.

    I have had someone working in my company steal about $ 130 K from me. I managed to get back $ 112, 758.00 back but I had to sign a Confidentiality Agreement and not proceed with Legal Action.

    I will now be paying more Income Tax and more Corporate Tax and Property Taxes I pay increase for NO reason each and every year.

    I cannot control what Business People do, I cannot control any kind of Fraud or Theft in private business, that is up to the various Law Enforcement Agencies.

    I can however ask that Government/Elected Politicians ensure that Fraud and Abuse is taken seriously and arrested in virtually every instance.

    Tax Payers/Residents in B.C. have some of the highest Rents, Real Estate Prices, and other Cost of Living Expenses in the World and we need our three Levels of Government to be as efficient and as responsible as is possible.

    It is simple, I am just asking for Efficiency, Accountability, and Responsibility in Government.

    I am 100% convinced that the vast majority of PSW are honest and dedicated.

    Several times on other topics and even on this one you will see that I point out that IMHO PSW are the Backbone of our Province but……….

    You seem to ignore that point I make.

    Due to circumstances and the fact that I was born in St. Pauls Hospital and have lived in Vancouver Proper my whole life until very recently I have many friends in Government at all 3 Levels. Some are front line workers, some are very Senior Staff, and some are Elected Officials.

    When CKNDP actually took calls I used some of the Inside Information I had to confront Mayor Gregor, other Visionite Members of Council, and various other Politicians of various brands.

    That includes B.C. Liberals, especially during the disgusting Basi/Virk mess.

    WE now see Reps of various PSW like Ambulance Emergency Dispatch, Fire, and Police Lobbying for “Stress Leave” and Treatment for those Workers. The same Lobbying will take place for Nurses, other Care Givers, School Teachers and other PSW.

    They are all aware that the new Horgan NDP Government “Will come through for them”!!

    That will end up costing the Tax Payer of B.C. well over $ 1 Billion between now and October 2021.

    Then there is this.

    http://www.macleans.ca/politics/the-sick-day-scam/

    WE ALL need to do better but Tax Payers need assistance with Public Sector Workers.

    Look, I have worked for a long time now, I was in my Office at 4:30 AM this AM and unless I am away 4 days each week.

    Yes I have been fortunate to be healthy so I asked my wife last night how many Sick Days I have taken over the past 40 years and she said “maybe 2 or 3″. I have not had any major illnesses and I hope I do not Jinx myself.

    Of course we all need the odd Sick Day but 14, 15, 16, 18, each and every year?

    Not trying to drag Harvey into this but I have seen where he pointed out certain concerns over PSW himself.

    We cannot control what Private Business does but Tax Payers can demand that Government maintain some semblance of Efficiency!!

    I am a Hard Liner when it comes to Crime and Punishment and I demand the same from Government.

    Being fairly Liberal as you I am concluding you are more forgiving and tolerant than I might be when it comes to Crime and Punishment or even say Accountability in Government.

    I do not want to filify you for that I simply disagree and I believe you are wrong. Hell, I may be wrong, I have been proved incorrect before and I have been happy to acknowledge that.

    Ask our friend LEW who I miss very much. He took me to task and I admitted I was wrong and on another two topics his reasoning assisted me greatly to the point my opinion evolved.

    The Ben Shapiro attachment was simply to share with you what is taking place and it supports my concern about “Who decides” on who speaks in Public Space?

    This is a difficult topic and I freely admit I have no answer.

    Yes I believe Icke should have been banned but again, I would be very frightened to let Elected Officials like Mayor Gregor and his Visionites decide what is good for us.

    But yes they should have banned Icke.

    Sound like I am confused?

    I am well aware of Shapiro and his philosophy on this.

    I respect him for that but as my Parents were older they made sure I had God Parents and they happened to be Jewish and we had next door Neighbours who were like Grandparents to me that had the Numbers tattooed on their arms which I remember touching and they all saw Anti Semitic Rhetoric much differently than Shapiro.

    You are correct Shapiro would let Icke Speak, I however feel differently about that.

    I will be in Israel for 2 days beginning Oct. 19. I will be spending time with many different people and I will be discussing this very issue of Freedom of Speech or Hate Speech with some of them.

    I know it is off topic but Harvey has been very good to us to this point.

    I hope you read the Vancouver Sun piece on 1 in 6 UBC Students being White Males.

    Thank you for the discussion and thanks to Harvey for his patience.

  • 38 BMCQ // Sep 15, 2017 at 5:48 am

    DBW – 36

    I hope you check back to this Thread because I am quite sure you might find the attached interesting.

    It is advertised as Carlson VS Dershowitz but in fact it is anything but.

    The You Tube attached Piece is a discussion between Tucker and Dershowitz regarding Berkely and the Shapiro Speech.

    I am sure you are familiar with Dershowitz and you are aware that he is a Liberal Guy.

    I do not agree with Mr. Dershowitz on everything he believes in but IMHO the Man is a Great American Patriot.

    He is a Man of Strong Character and his Integrity is beyond reproach.

    I never miss an opportunity to listen to the Professor.

    It must be a great Education and a Great Honour to be at any of his Lectures.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7-MMu5cQKY

    Tucker and the Professor have had other discussions and they are worth listening to.

    I still believe Icke should have been Banned from Speaking at the Orpheum.

    I was in the Orpheum on a regular basis as a Boy growing up and I was just at a Concert at the Orpheum a few days ago and it has always seemed like a happy place to me.

    Icke should not be allowed to spoil that.

    But then again, that is only “One Man’s Opinion”!

    Hope you see the attached.

  • 39 DBW // Sep 15, 2017 at 10:55 am

    You don’t need AlanDershowitz to convince me that Ben Shapiro should be allowed to speak at Berkeley. I believe anybody should be allowed to speak as long as they are not advocating/promoting violence/hate against a particular group.

    What I am finding strange is that you are trying to convince me about the importance of free speech when it is you that is denying some weird conspiracy guy the right to spout his nonsense.

    If hate laws are broken then charge people. If not ignore them or challenge their ideas. Protesting just gives them more exposure.

  • 40 BMCQ // Sep 16, 2017 at 8:34 am

    DBW – 39

    My intentions were NOT to convince you of anything. I posted the Video as a courtesy.

    I simply thought that you might find the discussion between Tucker and Dershowitz of interest.

    I believe there is a difference between Free Speech and Hate Speech.

    Rightly or wrongly I consider Icke a Merchant of Hate.

    I believe some of that ilk are more subtle than others and society must do what we can to ensure that the Haters have no platform.

    You on the other hand see it differently than I do and that is OK.

  • 41 DBW // Sep 16, 2017 at 11:04 am

    Sorry BMCQ. I sounded pretty snarky there.

    This is my frustration. I strongly support free speech. Maybe Ilke is a hate monger. I really don’t know. He has some really weird theories including some that involve Jews but I don’t know if he is breaking any hate laws. If he is then charge him.

    You say you don’t want to give Icke and his ilk a platform but he already has one. By denying him any other platform, we are actually giving him more exposure and more sympathy than he deserves.

    That’s what drives me nuts when I see protesters at Ben Shapiro (who doesn’t seem that bad; he doesn’t like Trump for example) or Ann Coulter or Milo Yianappolos (sp) who is just a provocateur. They win even if they don’t speak. They probably win more than had they spoke.

    It embarrasses me as an educator to watch students deny people the right to speak. It embarrasses me as someone who supports the left watching leftists chanting nonsense rather than challenging the people on the right. YOU WANT TO WIN THE ARGUMENT. THEN ARGUE THE POINTS.

    Literally BMCQ. It makes me sick watching those kinds of protesters. The left loses. Society loses.

    I have no problem with you not wanting Ilke to speak. I don’t want to hear him speak either. But as you have mentioned plenty of times in our discussion, who makes that call.

    I did enjoy the passion of Dershowitz. You might enjoy Ben Shapiro’s take on his speech the other night.

    http://www.dailywire.com/news/21115/5-things-i-learned-berkeley-last-night-ben-shapiro#

    And thanks for the discussion.

  • 42 BMCQ // Sep 17, 2017 at 7:35 pm

    DBW

    I have again attached a Tucker Carlson You Tube Segment that I feel WE ALL should find of interest.

    The guest is Professor Isaacson a Professor at the John J College of Criminal Justice.

    I cast no aspersions or in any way am I attempting to judge the Professor.

    I am simply Posting the Segment to illustrate what is going on in many U.S. Colleges and Universities today.

    Of course the same type of situation is taking place in Canada but thank god to a lesser degree.

    I believe the Segment supports my question of just WHO decides who is acceptable or not acceptable to speak in in Public Owned Venues.

    And most importantly just What is Free Speech and what is not. Exactly what is the definition of Free Speech in Professor Isaacson’s world?

    It appears that the Professor and his Antifa Group is of the opinion that various opinions of ANY Conservative Ideology is ACTUAL Physical Violence in some odd way and that qualifies as actual Physical Violence in some way and that in turn justifies the Violent Attacks against anyone that does not reflect the values of Antifa.

    BTW, that also includes some very Liberal Observers, Media Types, and People on the Left that believe in Free Speech and Dialogue.

    Many Liberal Activists have been attacked and in fact assaulted and injured by Antifa.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAwvTC4YU3g

    Again, I am in no way suggesting that any reasonable Leftist Liberal Supports the Professor or Antifa, I am simply Posting this Segment to point out that in my opinion we are on a very slippery slope and there must be a better way to define what is and what is not “Free Speech”

    It seems to me however that the Universities and Colleges that should be a welcoming Venue for the Argument, Discussion, and debate, of any Free Speech seems to be anything but.

    It is also very obvious that College and university Administrations have absolutely no Strength of Character, No integrity, lack Courage, and in fact they are Hiding Under their Desks when it comes to the Free Speech Issue.

    I have seen and been through a lot in my life some of it very violent and some of it would cause you great distress but this recent Antifa behavior concerns me very much.

    then there is the fact that that Professor Isaacson is Teaching, Grading, and I am quite sure Influencing many young Students in their late Teens and early twenty somethings.

    I find that very disturbing.

    I suppose I went back on my word by stating that I have concerns about the Professor but I must ask the question.

    Would you want the Professor Teaching any Family of Friends of yours?

    I am not attempting to paint you in a corner here but I feel that the question is worth while and I find you to be thoughtful, forthright, and honest.

  • 43 DBW // Sep 18, 2017 at 8:25 am

    Poor Harvey

    I agree with you BMCQ. Free speech is important. We are on a slippery slope. I really couldn’t make head nor tail of the professor’s argument, partly because Tucker Carlson was more interested in arguing than he was in trying to figure out what the guy’s exact point was. You and I are trying to find common ground. Neither one of those guys were although Tucker was more reasonable. (And, I am also easily distracted by people brushing hair out of their eyes.)

    I think the professor is wrong when he say speech is violence and can be returned by physical violence. (If in fact he was saying that. Sometimes it was hard to tell.) People have the right to protest (peacefully) so chanting outside an Ann Coulter or Ben Shapiro or David Icke performance is fine. But I don’t believe we have the right to silence those people and more importantly stop people from hearing those viewpoints.

    We still have the right to challenge ideas through argument and the courts (hate speech or defamation suits). Violence should not be an option.

    I don’t know what else to tell you.

    PS. Not sure why you asked the question about the professor based on a seven minute interview. I am assuming that the guy is a decent professor and that my kids would be able to see through any of his BS.

    I do wonder though how he would react if a slew of Conservative students signed up just to disrupt and shout down his lectures.

    Again, I appreciate the discussion but I think Harvey has moved on and so should we. I will read anything you have to add but I think I have said enough.