This Time … a Green Vote Really IS a Liberal Vote!

Few voters, provincially or federally, have ever expected the Greens to actually win an election and take power.

They can’t win this time either … but Green supporters can wield more power than ever before … determining the outcome!

I have voted Green … both federally (before they became wildly extreme) and provincially … partly as a protest vote, partly to encourage their environmentally positive ideas, and partly to give them a financial boost under public-funding incentives.  (However, over the years, as an independent voter, I have also voted for every other major party as well.)

But let’s keep it real: almost no one believed the Greens would ever actually win or that the Green  vote was large enough to materially affect the election results, under our first-past-the-post electoral system.

Not so this time.

In the 2013 BC election, the Greens captured 8.15% of the popular vote … compared to 44.13% for the Liberals, and 39.72% for the NDP.

Of course, it would have been POSSIBLE for the NDP to win over enough Green votes to propel themselves past the Liberals into power …but it would have required a major proportional shift in Green numbers.

Not this time.

Green voters could ultimately decide whether the Liberals will win another four years in power or if the NDP take over.

In a recent Mainstreet/PostMedia poll, the Greens drew 15% support province-wide and 38% on Vancouver Island. The NDP scored 32% support province-wide, while the Liberals came in at 30%.

Province-wide, that’s DOUBLE the Greens’ accomplishment in the last BC election … still nowhere close to achieving office   … but substantially more than last election … large enough numbers that if enough were exercised  strategically to defeat the Liberals and went over to the NDP,  Green power could end the Liberal reign.

The NDP believe they can do that on their own …  but they’re also no doubt very aware how help from Green supporters could almost guarantee it.

And Green supporters would no doubt influence an NDP government’s policies more than they now affect the Liberals.

Of course, I realize there are dedicated Green activists/voters who could never be swayed, and their belief in the long term message/ideology of the party should not be underestimated.

BUT what about those who are  Green “light” …. they like some of what they have heard and/or they just want to protest?

How THEY end up  casting their ballots could have a major impact in the May 9 election result.

Which makes what the two Opposition leaders’ say Wednesday night in their TV debate more intriguing than ever.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts of all new postings on this BC blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter.  No spam. just blog alerts.  And you can hear h.o. talk about the election on ww.howestreet.com: http://www.howestreet.com/2017/04/21/bc-election-15-20-undecided/ )

 

 

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46 Responses to This Time … a Green Vote Really IS a Liberal Vote!

  1. D. M. Johnston says:

    The Greens and Weaver are in fact “Green washed” Liberals and Weaver has been ever so cozy with Photo-op, so much so that I made a decision some years back, not to vote Green.

    I live in Delta South and I am going to try to carry on the local tradition of voting for an independent.

    Why?

    An independent is truly independent and not beholden to the party whip.

    Viki Huntington has been a most excellent MLA and from the few meetings I had with her, including the Photo-op’s wheelchair tax grab.

    I went to school with the Liberal who is running and I am tired of elitist farmers who always cry poverty but always seem to have enough cash, who just can’t wait to get on the provincial gravy train.

    The chap is quoted in the ‘Mop and Pail” that the reason he wants the new Massey Tunnel replacement bridge is so he can drive farm equipment to Richmond; so we are going to spend $3.5 billion and probably a lot more, so he can take his manure spreader from Delta to Richmond.

    So I an going to vote for Wong the independent, endorsed by Huntington and certainly not green washed.

    (Response: There are some independents who do a very good job on behalf of their constituents. However, they do not govern or make policy …except in very, very rare instances where they hold the balance of power. So their impact on society, on our laws, our taxes etc. is minimal. But they can and do raise hell on occasion without worrying about party discipline, so they can fulfill a useful role. h.o.)

  2. Hawgwash says:

    I am with you on this one, Harvey but all bets are off as to how it will play out.

    More and more people are telling me they want a change and are not in any camp. Yet.

    What is unfolding in France is just a repeat of the global “toss the bums out” sentiment.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39689385

    I see that here, in BC, as well and think there could be an interesting 3 way mix with possibly a new coalition on the horizon.

    Intriguing couple weeks ahead.
    Desperate Liberals will get nasty, desperate NDPers will try to get cozier with the Greens and the Green Weaver himself will play coy.

    “Green light” is a good term as I do believe there will be a lot of Green support in the form of a “pox on both their houses” parked votes.

    (Response: Another alternative, of course, could be an NDP/Green coalition. Wouldn’t that be interesting! But I suspect the markets and investors would see all kinds of difficulties with that … and go elsewhere …which might suit some NDP/Greens fine! 😉 h.o?)

  3. Gene The Bean says:

    Bang on Harvey.

    Any disillusioned voter who ‘protest votes’ the LIEberals and votes Green is still voting for Christy’s cabal.

    In my very LIEberal riding the Green candidate is charming and articulate and will pull many voters away from the mono-toned cardboard like NDP candidate.

    There goes any hope for an upset.

  4. harry lawson says:

    Harvey

    a minority goverment is a distinct possibility, i heard both Horgan and Weaver on cknw this morning, the liberals chose not to appear.

    (Response: I think it’s disgraceful when the leader of any major party does not make himself or herself available to appear on the major radio station in Vancouver, both during their term but especially at election time. I’m sure the timing was not sprung on Clark/Liberals at the last moment: she SHOULD have squeezed a half hour into her schedule to appear …even if only by phone. The fact she did not, in my view, shows a great disrespect for the voters, for her position as leader and for democratic debate and discussion. A single TV debate is not sufficient. She SHOULD make herself available to CKNW and many other stations as well throughout the province …or she does not deserve to govern. h.o)

  5. Diverdarren says:

    Harvey, as long as the left is split between NDP/Green and the right is unified under the Liberal banner then a Liberal win should be an easy test in our First Past the Post system.

    Your call to sway Green voters away from placing their mark next to the Green to stop a Liberal win is true advice, but it’s a short-term fix. The left needs to unite. The two parties need to amalgamate GreeNDP.

    The parties should have came to that conclusion after the last loss. If voters want to see a long term united left then they need to “convince” the party believers that it’s amalgamate or get comfortable with 1st place looser.

    Green voters… Vote Green, hand the NDP a humiliating defeat. After that, the party strategists can decide if they have had enough of opposition and finally conclude that a joining of the parties is their only route to governance.

    (Response: I’m not “calling” for it: merely pointing out what the numbers are showing this time and how they could impact the outcome. The shift of Green voters could sway the outcome…. I say “could” because if there are enough silent Libera or NDP votes out there, may not make much of a difference. But they could …h.o)

  6. Scotty on Denman says:

    The observation is astute, Harvey, that although the Greens are polling higher in this provincial election than they had in the last, a considerable number of proclaimers are what you call “soft Greens,” those whose confessed affection for the little-party-that-could might occasionally protest environmental degradation by way of a Green vote without expectation of electing even the candidate, let alone a government (or even Official Opposition, for that matter). The questions remain whether the uptick in otherwise tepid polling is more of protest-survey-response than actual voting intention—that is, done for much the same reason as a protest vote, and with much the same expectation—and, on the other hand, whether there’s some peculiarity about this BC contest that would suggest the latest uptick in Green polling numbers is any more solid than similar polling (I’d say “typical Green affirmation signalling”) that’s preceded many other provincial and provincial elections.

    Over the last fifteen years, the Green movement in Canada has assumed the the shape of The Little Prince’s ruminating snake: thin at both ends, with a bump in the middle, suggesting initial support was somewhat due to novelty which, after reaching the lowest of double-digit zeniths several years ago, was subsequently halved back down to its customary single-digit level. The pre-election upticks in polling perhaps reflect the two major accomplishments of the movement: Elizabeth May’s seminal federal win in Saanich-Gulf Islands and Andrew Weaver’s subsequent win in the nearby provincial riding of Oak Bay; both of these leaders avail a bully pulpit that spotlights the Greens with an intensity quite disproportionate to their respective democratic importance. With the benefit of one incumbent victory for the federal Green candidate (we can only infer its relevance to the BC Green who’s yet to test his own incumbency), we note that Greens polled in the double digits leading up to the election, but ended up with low single-digit results when the votes were counted. Plainly many of those who’d declared for the Greens when surveyed voted strategically to get rid of Harper’s Conservatives instead, the higher priority that Green vote-splitting had helped thwart in three preceding federal elections ( my old riding being but one of many examples). I haven’t heard the Green vote-splitting phenomenon, well documented in fact, so clearly and broadly articulated as it has in this BC contest—which is probably why the Green leader is paying some attention to strategic voting, in fact revealing a tell by actually mentioning it by name, which most partisan politicians are loath to do; we may assume the fat’s already in the fire.

    Weaver naturally condemns SV as being undemocratic and cynical, but in doing so he’s effectively asking BC to risk another BC Liberal government (and let’s face it, a Green supported BC Liberal minority would be as environmentally perfidious as a BC Liberal majority) all so the his Green party can continue its stubborn slog through inch-deep popularity toward, maybe maybe, two-inch deep balance-of-power or junior-coalition partner. Although offering a new way, the Greens are not above playing politics for their own advancement and it might be one of the reasons it doesn’t catch a wind and luffs out in the last tack.

    The Greens face a quandary accepting friendly MSM coverage and conspicuous BC Liberal accommodation (I’ll never forget the smile on Gordo’s face when he welcomed the first Green leader to attend a televised campaign debate, knowing it inaugurated potentially decades of vote-splitting in his party’s favour). A premium must be paid for being a willing pawn of another party’s motives just to grab attention. But there can hardy be blame: the Green party has no choices but to grow or expire, and to accept the easy road the BC Liberals and its media friends gladly make for it.

    Weaver tries to conflate SV and the youth vote, insisting the voting tactic turns young voters off of politics, it being so cynical and all. Yet an astounding increase in youth vote featured prominently in the last federal election; their acknowledged use of SV refutes his assertion: young voters were more attracted to SV the more party leaders dismissed, questioned and condemned it; not only was it critical in thrashing Harper’s Cons, it confirmed young voters disdain of partisanship in status quo politics and their own dismissal of partisan presumptuousness. That it worked and they can lay claim to some of the spoils will hopefully have the effect of encouraging more young voters to successfully participate in electoral politics without necessarily committing to any party.

    We also note that while the federal Green party claimed to be the favourite among young voters and Conservative-friendly MSM was happy to propagate, it managed only to hang on to its single seat in the decidedly geriatric Saanich-Gulf Islands riding, and won barely mid single-digit percent of the overall vote. The flood of new young voters plainly didn’t flow the Greens’ way.

    I can’t see an NDP-Green coalition, especially not if the Greens get less than four seats. A single-seat balance of power in an NDP plurality would be vulnerable to poaching with some pretty tempting ministerial bait. The bigger worry—if getting rid of the BC Liberals’ ability to do things in secret with the public weal is of any concern—is the potential to end up with a BC Liberal minority supported by the Green party which might not even have official party status. Maybe the Greens could at least be be knighted, as they’ve so long deserved, for the many loyal services they’ve performed for the BC Liberals.

    Everybody has their ideals and democracy is debatably made to reflect or accommodate them. But, without a doubt, in the this election the most important thing to do is disconnect the BC Liberals from power. Weaver’s appeal to high democratic ideals is, in this critical circumstance, beside the point. I think most people who declaim for the Greens feel this way, too.

  7. Bonnie says:

    John Horgan has said that he would (I believe) have a referendum on PR before next election( 50% +1 majority) so you would think if the Greens really wanted to advance their agenda that they would be standing behind the NDP and wanting them to win, then next election they will get as many MLA’s as their vote percentage. But I truly believe that Andrew Weaver is in collusion with the Libs to help get them re elected. And I read the Christy Clarke has given the Greens at least 3 separate $10,000 donations(minimum) also Bob Rennie has donated to the Greens, though I didn’t see the amount, and do not know how to look it up (being almost 60 I’m just above being able to send emails! Not computer literate in any way). I mean a sitting premier giving an opposition party that much money (could be more, not sure) that to me says a lot, also the premier’s chief fundraiser giving an unknown amount to an opposition party. Who needs to take corporate or union donations when you get your money from the sitting government and their friends, also no worries about fighting lies and attack ads, because there aren’t any, and only positive press (and lots of it) in the MSM. It truly makes me sick how low this Liberal Party will go and how low the MSM will go to get the Lib’s in again. It seems daily there is at least one hatchet piece on the NDP. We don’t have journalism in this province, what we have is the media arm of the BC Liberal party. I will be so glad when this is over. Thank you for letting me rant.

  8. e.a.f. says:

    If the Greens hand the B.C. Lieberals a victory this time, they get to live with the results for the next 4 years, as will their voters. They might also die because of it given the state of our health care. Me, I’m going to pick up my E.U. citizenship and ensure I have health care in the Netherlands.

    When I look at Weaver’s voting record, I’m not impressed. He might talk the talk,, but the walk or even a waddle, not so much. My prediction; if the Greens win more than his seat, the Greens will turf him as leader.

    The NDP and Greens will not form one party. NDP members left to join the Greens. They may support each other in the Leg. if Weaver is not the leader.

    Christy doesn’t care what we think about her not appearing on the debates. She goes with what works for her, just like her entire time in government. its not about us, the voters, its about Christy and what she can gain for herself and her supporters. Have a read of Norm Farrell’s latest post on what she gave one of her supporters. And some wonder why our electricity rates are so high?

    When a province is as in debt as this one, with no improvement in social services, education, transportation, etc. then it is time to get rid of the bums. All those promises Christy has been making, expect them NOT TO BE DELIVERED ON. Think about it, over a BILLION IN DEBT. a one percent increase in interest and we’ll see a reduction in services and an increase in fees.

    Remember those ferries el gordo had built in Germany have a 10% interest rate on them. that isn’t good business. buying electricity at 10 cents and selling at 3 cents is not good business. tolls on bridges takes a lot of money out of the economy; not good business. Over crowded schools in Surrey, not good business. selling off government land which we will need in the future, not good business. building roads and transmission lines for select businesses only, not good business. People not being able to access decent/affordable housing and moving on with their lives, not good business. People having to turn over most of the salaries to land lords and mortgage companies, not good business.

  9. WHACKED BY TRUMP, MAIS OUI…WHAT ELSE IS, AND SOON WILL BE, NEW?

    Late this afternoon the Trump administration announced a 20-24 per cent tariff will be imposed on Canadian (also BC) lumber exports to the US.

    Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross, ex-heavy-weight from Wall Street, will be in charge of driving this new punishing duty.

    It comes on the same day that the hapless NDP leader John Horgan stumbled out of the gate during an appearance on CKNW this morning.

    He tried to explain away a $600+thousand donation made last year by the US-headquartered United Steelworkers Union.

    Some of that money pays for three NDP operatives employed during this current campaign.

    Horgan said the campaign rules allow that.

    Horgan promised that the day after the NDP wins the rules will change and such sources of donations will be banned.

    Horgan also protested that the union donation (the Steelworkers support wholeheartedly President Trump’s drive to impose duties on steel imports to the US) will have no effect on future NDP government policies.

    Sure!

    He noted, weakly, that the union also represents some BC workers. But he didn’t elaborate.

    In addition the NDP has made this powerful American union boss an NDP member! Good grief.

    Green Party leader Andrew Weaver jumped up and down on Horgan’s weak responses wondering where the NDP’s moral compass has gone. Out the window.

    Maybe it was good that Christy Clark was a no-show (she has offered to appear on ‘NW before election day, and Jon McComb has accepted).

    She said her corporate donors aren’t paying her speech writers. She also said that she is still angry at greedy American lumber barons and how they could hurt BC forestry workers.

    Sure enough, later Monday the US tariff announcement popped out and Keith Baldrey gave some glum details on Global at 6.

    Aside from Horgan’s feelings, and he must feel like hell, what about Christy?

    She will be very unhappy, I’m sure, but she must be heartened that one of BC’s new lumber customers is India. She did not mention the US in her announcement today.

    While Mr. Horgan climbs a very steep campaign learning curve, waiting for the knives to come out, Mr. Weaver continues on his quest for some kind of king or queen maker role if the main line parties manage only a minority outcome.

    (Response: Both are bad: Huge donations by unions and HUGE donations by corporations. Make no mistake about it …those who pay the piper will call … to some extent …the tune. I realize running a party and campaign costs money and individuals can’t or don’t come anywhere close to covering costs. Public funding can help to some extent, and there’s nothing wrong with union or corporate donations WITHIN REASON: the question of course is what constitutes within reason? h.o)

  10. AndyO says:

    Completely right Harvey, I sat back and wondered why so many BC Liberal candidates aren’t showing up for local debates, especially here on Vancouver Island. All I can figure is they know if they don’t show up, the battle at the debate will be between the Greens and BCNDP, which will set up splitting those votes. Then the BCLibs slide right in and win, especially close ridings.

  11. 13 says:

    Liberal no shows at various forums. As they would be the only ones with a track record they would be targeted. It doesnt take a high priced strategist/adviser to see that a no show is the best course of action.
    Irregardless of your feelings re the Liberal track record, its probably the best course of action for any incumbent.

    (Response: I understand why, but it does bother me, because what this does is turn elections too much into just “leaders and promises” productions and rating the campaign ads. Individual candidates count for less and less, which is not what democracy should be about. h.o.)

  12. Hawgwash says:

    I know a lot of people who will vote on what they have heard not what they have learned or, single issues. Many of them want rid of Clark because they have heard about some current controversy and do not want to vote NDP because they have heard about the 90s. Many were not even here in the 90s.

    So, if the Greens spike this time it will be because people will feel clean about their vote.

    We all think we’re environmentally pure, even when we are dumping the old sofa in the Coquitlam River so, a A Green vote is a feel good vote.

    A green vote is a Liberal vote which is counter to the reason for the vote.

    Who are the greens?
    Weaver and…???

    Scotty mentioned Elizabeth May.

    Well, she is not elected because she is Green; she is elected because she is Elizabeth May.

    She could be Fish and Chips Party and win; but, probably only once more, if she chooses, as there is a dramatic demographic shift in her riding.

  13. 13 says:

    I think diver darren and ho and others are correct. Vote for the greens will elect a bc liberal gov. I am okay with that.
    I’ve never seen any home furnishings in the coquitlam river

  14. Frozen Tundra says:

    Can anyone tell me when John Horgan is going to campaign outside the Lower Mainland or Vancouver Island? The NDP leader has not set foot outside the 604 in this entire campaign.

    It gives me as a northern BC resident the feeling that the NDP do not give a damn about 95% of the land area of the province. All of their idea seem to be geared to the Lower Mainland and many of their policies mean that the Interior and the North are going to lose jobs and assistance to pay for the enormous glut that is Metro. The Greens dont do much electioneering outside the Lower Mainaland and Southern Vancouver Island either, but that could be due to lack of money. So can anyone answer me why our potential new leader of the province doesnt even acknowledge the majority of the land area?

    (Response: Very good point. Maybe someone in the NDP campaign can explain. h.o)

  15. BMCQ says:

    I must more or less agree that a Vote for The Greens will benefit the B.C. Liberal Party.

    No different than a Protest or other Vote for a Conservative rather than a B.C. Liberal May 9 would benefit Horgan and his Minions.

    If Polling is accurate (and who really knows, correct Premier Dix andPresident Hillary?) the Greens seem to be doing OK so we shall see.

    I for one would like to see just how Polls actually work out this time around. Their Track Record of Late anywhere in the World has not looked so good. I still believe that some of the “Great Unwashed” can be swayed by Polling results.

    As to Elizabeth May? She could very well be an Endangered Species next time around.

    Oh well, she could always find work as an After Dinner Speaker on the “Rubber Chicken” Circuit.

  16. Gene The Bean says:

    #14
    Horgan was in Kelowna and some other locales in the southern interior in early April.
    Google is your friend …. unless of course the intent of your “question” was to just smear him…..

    (Response: I do think he has a point, though. It’s now the 25th … early April in the southern interior is not really Horgan covering the province very well. I think Clark has done more and this could leave those in many other parts feeling left out by the NDP. h.o)

  17. Lew says:

    Two weeks ago Christy gave Trump the thumbs up on softwood lumber.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/3365287/christy-clark-praises-trump-rips-obama-over-softwood-lumber-negotiations/

    Four days ago Christy called the U.S. lumber barons “greedy”. One of those “greedy” lumber barons is Wayerhaeuser, which has donated over $230,000 to the BC Liberals, and is one of the largest members of the U.S. Lumber Coalition, which persuaded Trump to impose the duties yesterday.
    http://globalnews.ca/news/3396384/christy-clark-jabs-greedy-americans-over-softwood-lumber-trade-deals/

    According to a 2015 Business in Vancouver article, B.C.’s largest forestry company, West Fraser, now owns 15 American sawmills, compared with just seven in B.C. and five in Alberta. Interfor owns five sawmills in B.C., nine in the U.S. and will add another four U.S. mills this year. Canfor owns 12 sawmills in B.C., one in Alberta and 10 in the U.S.

    West Fraser has donated almost $1,000,000 to the BC Liberals. Interfor has donated $66,500, and Canfor almost $100,000.

    I wonder if Christy will at least give the $230,000 back?

  18. e.a.f. says:

    Lets not get our things in a knot about the NDP having 3 senior campaign workers salaries paid for by the United Steel Workers Union. Christy Clark and the B.C. Lieberals picked up $12M and we don’t know who attended those $10K and $20K soirees. what influence will they have on Christy and the B.C. Lieberals?

    Christy is out there leading her version of the charge on the American duties on soft wood lumber. what she isn’t saying is that its Weyerhaeuser, an American corporation, which filed the complaint on 25 Nov. 2016 with the Trump administration. Yes, that is the same Weyerhaeuser who DONATED OVER $230,000 to the B.C. Liberals. so the question I have is just how hard will Christy be fighting. Not to mention she doesn’t do the “fighting”. Its the federal government and their decisions will be made on what is best for the country as a whole, not just what is best for Christy, the B.C. Lieberals and B.C.

    We might want to have a look at Christy’s record of receiving donations from corporations and their representatives and what she has done for them in return. that mining company which doesn’t have to pay its electricity bill, just the interest; it’s owner raised $250K at a dinner for Christy, in Calgary, when she was running for the leadership of the B.C. Lieberals. AFter that, he sent another $250K her way.

    Then there is the company which got that lovely transmission line to their place of business, What did we the tax payers get? Higher electrical rates and A Bill for $885Million. As Norm Farrell writes on his blog, “B.C. Hydro constructed transmission lines that allowed AltaGas power to be used. The cost to B.C. Hydro totalled $885Million”. You can find all the details on Norm’s blog under Special deals …..

    So if this is how Christy deals with corporations at the expense of tax payers and B.C. Hydro customers, how can we trust her to look after our interests in any soft wood lumber dispute. it was her financial contributor who started this.

    The United Steel Workers in Canada sets its own rules. Yes, it is part of the International United Steel Workers of American. It ought to be noted the United Steel Workers in the U.S.A,. do not control the Canadian branch any more than the Canadian branch controls the American branch. The President of the International Steel Workers is in fact the head of their board of directors. He doesn’t control the Canadian branch. That is left to the members in Canada and their National Director Ken Neuman, who has always put Canada first.

    Citing a picture of the President of the International Steel Workers of American with Trump as a problem, well lets go have a look at some of the pictures Christy Clarke has been in. Not all of them are people some of us would invite over for dinner. Being a politician or president of an organization puts you in all sorts of pictures. If we went through all the pictures of Christy what would we find…….I think there is an old post on an old blog by AGT which outlines some fun stuff…….but I won’t hold that against

  19. Gene The Bean says:

    #16 response –
    I agree Harvey, the point is valid and unfortunately shows that the NDP couldn’t organize a two house paper route.

    Any and I mean ANY kind of legit opposition would have been in power two elections ago.

  20. Lew says:

    The USW on both sides of the border supports the Canadian workers.

    http://www.usw.ca/news/media-centre/articles/2017/steelworkers-demand-government-counter-softwood-lumber-tariffs-that-will-damage-canadian-industry-hurt-working-families

    Christy accepts money from companies like Wayerhaeuser that doesn’t. She’ll have to explain that.

  21. Crankypants says:

    BMCQ#15

    It may be true that some votes garnered by Conservative candidates will impact BC liberal candidates in their respective ridings. It may also be true that some votes garnered by Green candidates will impact NDP candidates in their respective ridings. There is just one big difference. The Conservative factor is limited to 10 ridings whereas the Green factor is a much more robust 82 ridings.

    With our first past the post system it is obvious that one scenario does not equate with the other.

  22. BMCQ says:

    Bonnie – 7

    I am astonished that Gene the Bean or any other “Fact Checker” and “Champion of Democracy” has not already asked you to provide “Proof” of your claim that Premier Christy donated on three separate instances at least $ 10,000.00 to The Greens.

    Did I read that correctly?

    Yikes!

    By the way Bonnie, perhaps you could point out to this Duped and Deplorable Supporter just which Host on CKNDP that is fully and deeply “In the Tank” for Premier Christy and Her B.C. Liberal Minions.

    Could it be John McComb that supports Premier Christy, he sure seems to like her, could it be Simi Sara that supports the Libs, she always invites Liberal Politicians onto her Show along with the departed Mary Ellen Turpel Lafond does she not? Or could it be Lynda Steele and the Australian Guy that are Liberal Supporters.

    Oh no, I forgot, the Australian Guy makes Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders look like Party Members of French Poster Girl Le Pen.

    We await your evidence of Premier Clarks Donations to the Greens.

    (Response: Geez! Would that make her one of those Liberals some believe will also vote Green? 🙂 h.o)

  23. DBW says:

    The Greens could steal votes from the NDP. But that is not the only option. If the polls are correct (and who knows) the spike in the Greens could be from disgruntled former voters of the Liberals who want to park their vote somewhere else.

    People who voted NDP last time have no real reason to switch. But there are – or at least should be – plenty of people who voted Liberal last time who might want to. If for philosophical reasons they can’t support the NDP, the Greens could be an acceptable place to go – especially considering Weaver has been as much a critic of the NDP as he has of the Liberals.

    I just don’t think we can assume that every vote for a Green is a lost vote for the NDP. Sure it would be nice for the NDP if former Liberal support went their way, but it sure doesn’t hurt the NDP if the Greens gain a vote at the expense of the Liberals.

    (Response: I considered that…but frankly seems like a really big stretch …to go from Liberal right wing or at least conservative supporter to the Greens. But who knows1 this is politics. This BC. h.o)

  24. #17 Lew EMPIRE ON A RAMPAGE….

    Juxtaposing two Christy Clark clips on US/BC trade relations, and mentioning Trump in the process, does not display any kind of contraditory behaviour by our premier.

    It simply shows the degree of powerlessness that exists at the provincial level when a harmful softwood lumber tariff hits our pocket books and the premier can basically do damn all about it!

    Not even our perfect PM Mr. T. has much power. What difference can he make? After all this is a mostly federal issue with severe provincial effects.

    President Trump has assembled a cabinet of hard-assed heavy-duty, mainly guys, many of them worth billions US apiece.

    Their task is to “Make America Great Again.” The subtext is “Hire American” and “Made Make) in America.”

    The last member of the cabinet yet to be sworn in by the US Senate is Mr. Lightizer.

    He will be the US Trade Representative, and could be Canada’s very worst nightmare when he shows up at the NAFTA talks. He used to be US trade rep negotiating against the Chinese. He was a tough cookie then, according to various news reports.

    We are watching the return of the American Empire Running Roughshod amongst its colonies and the deplorables who live within same.

    Canada is chief amongst those colonies which can be picked off at will for purely economic/political reasons.

    For Canadian pols and bureaucrats to grovel before the giants of DC won’t do much. The best we can hope for is that the Trumpsters will back down.

    Which leaves the question, who to vote for?

    Go with new folks whose expeerience in government has been to be lilly-white Opposition critics?

    Or stick with the barnacle-encrusted old sea captains? At least these know their way around the Capitol.

    Time’s a-getting short there.

  25. harry lawson says:

    Harvey

    i am noticing a more subdued NDP under Horgan, last election Dix and the NDP were ahead in the polls . some of the back room boys were drunk with patronage power then Dix changed the tempo by changing policy on the fly .
    i have noticed under Horgan the NDP is running a different campaign ,

    one my coffee buddies played the 1975 song dream weaver when talking about the green platform today lol

    (Response: I think Weds eve’s tv debate will make it or break it for Horgan AND Clark. h.o)

  26. DonGar says:

    The sad thing is that no party has any innovative ideas to solve the myriad of problems. Everyone of them wants to pour more of our money into broken systems and pretend that will be a solution. The solutions come from rethinking and making dramatic changes. We don’t need more money going to the same people and programs that have failed. But what politician cares about anything other than being re-elected.

  27. Lew says:

    @ISLAND LOOKOUT:

    Christy Clark’s press secretary Stephen Smart took to Twitter the other day to criticize the NDP for accepting donations from the United Steelworkers. Meanwhile her Director of Issues Management Shane Mills was driving what he called the Truth Truck around the Lower Mainland with the same message on a tarp attached to the box. It is hypocritical for her to take that stance while accepting much more from forest companies that are working against the interests of forest workers here while the USW is fighting for forest workers on both sides of the border.

    She also stated that she was in Washington fighting for those workers when she wasn’t.
    https://www.bcndp.ca/releases/clark-says-she-has-been-washington-advocate-softwood-she-hasnt

    If she can basically do damn all about it as you say, then she should stop saying she can, and we shouldn’t worry about whether or not she knows her way around the Capitol. Even if she is encrusted in barnacles.

  28. Hawgwash says:

    This arrogance alone should be enough to toss the lot of Christy’s Costa Nostra;
    http://thebreaker.news/news/big-money-bet/

    I wonder if the good Mennonite Brethren considers Christy Belle’s other donor a free enterpriser.
    http://www.worldofbuzz.com/malaysia-rated-as-2nd-most-corrupt-country-in-the-world/

    This is an interesting perspective;
    http://thenelsondaily.com/news/letter-my-green-vote-weary-hopeful-and-defiant-44348#.WP_4pXkkvTs

    How about this here eyebrow raiser;
    https://thetyee.ca/News/2017/04/25/Liberal-Herb-Pond-Not-Christy-Clark/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=042517-1&utm_campaign=editorial-0417

  29. Hawgwash says:

    ISLAND LOOKOUT;

    Some days there are just too many for even Lew to snag:

    http://bc.ctvnews.ca/watchdog-says-177-donors-gave-b-c-liberals-millions-got-billions-1.3385054

    “Just 177 donors paid $55 million – about half of all the money received by the Liberals over the last 12 years – and subsequently received some $15 billion, as well as permits, legal changes, regulation changes and approvals…”

  30. Bonnie says:

    BMCQ #22, if you read what I wrote, I don’t know how to look it up, I made it clear I had read it. Someone on the internet had taken a screenshot of the 3 separate $10,000 donations from Christy Clark to the Green Party and put it on twitter, that’s also where it said Bob Rennie had donated too, but did not say amount. Just in the last few days, I have read separate articles by both Pamela Martin and Warren Kinsella (on Huffington Post) about what John Horgan said in the debate about how CC likes to be watched, making him sound like a pervert (I didn’t watch the debate, but I understand that was taken completely out of context, he was talking about how she likes to be centre of attention), also just yesterday I read Tom Fletcher’s latest, talking about “Hulk” Hogan, it sure wasn’t a flattering article, but I understand his wife is a public affairs officer for the BC Liberals, so he might be worried about her job (you can Google that). Now if we had some real journalists in this province, maybe someone could write an article on how many reporters in BC have immediate family members that are employed by the BC Liberals, gee, wonder why that is?

  31. #27 Lew

    FORGET THE BARNACLES…

    …because early this evening it was reported that our trusty PM and Pres. Trump communicated today about the softwood and milk trade disputes.

    Both agreed that talks must take place before decisions are finalized on both issues. Cool heads prevailing.

    This news came from a national talk show broadcast on CKNW, whose host noted the obvious:

    President Trump seeks to maintain support from his base, 38 per cent of voters in the last election, even if it means twisting up the truth now and again.

    He knows full well that there will be a solution and that it won’t likely be as awful as we may anticipate.

    This is what the intersection of corporate profits and Canadian and American politics looks like, a dog’s breakfast and rough sledding.

    The president, meanwhile, has other huge issues to deal with: North Korea, Middle East, tax cuts, Senate appointments, budget issues, NAFTA and on and on.

    Welcome to the backwash of all of that.

    The best news of the day is this reminder; Christy Clark has David Emerson dealing with this issue. He was appointed to do so in February.

    He is the best and most competent heavy-duty trade guy we have in Canada.

    His long and distinguished public and private business careers and time spent as a Liberal and Conservative parliamentarian, and cabinet minister must be the envy of many.

    Clark knows enough not to stand in his way.

    Meanwhile, she has an election to win which, at this stage, looks pretty iffy.

    As for the other minorisms about Clark going to Washington, and the truth mobile, that’s all local politics. Remember Horgan is in Opposition.

    Those on the government side of the House have a whole lot more to answer for. Of course they do. They run the show.

    In the big picture the current government is taking care of our business and …workin’ overtime…

    (Response: I will blog on the dispute Weds. Canada must act. h.o)

  32. BMCQ says:

    Cranky – 21

    Yes, understood, it seems that the Provincial Conservatives are more of a Fringe or Rump Group as opposed to the Greens who are much better organized and do have a legitimate Platform.

    Interesting thing about the Green Platform is that the vast majority of Voters and Residents of B.C. Support much of what the Greens propose and believe in. The Greens are for real there is no doubt.

    Again, The NDP themselves are a “Split Party” with the Public Sector Workers and it’s own Green Side along with a faction of Social Engineers and other Special Interests versus a Union and Non Union Blue Collar Group that support the Jobs that come from Major Infrastructure Projects such as Pipelines, Bridges, Dams, Transportation, Mining, Lumber, Construction and many others.

    It is obvious that the NDP has and is losing a very large percentage of those Blue Collar Workers and they will not get them back any time soon.

    It is my feeling that if things do not go well this May 9 the NDP May in fact be required to formerly Split and the Social Engineers, Public Sector Workers and other Special Intersts would form a Coalition with the Green Party and the Construction Blue Collar types which would include Horgan and some others would then join into a Coalition with the B.C. Liberals.

    I know I will not get much agreement from anyone on this Blog but it would make sense if you look at many Northern EU Nations.

    Bonnie – 3o

    Thank you for the clarification.

    ………

    I have no doubt whatsoever that John Horgan is a fine individual.

  33. Crankypants says:

    There must be something in the wind that suggests the Liberals are in trouble this election. I am not referring to the publicized polls but rather insider information that we are never privy to.

    During the last election while the NDP were topping the polls on a daily basis and the Conservative Party was considered a viable option for those that are considered right of centre there was never any media focus on a possible minority government. This year we are again being told that the NDP are ahead in the polls and there is no real reason to assume that the Conservatives are a viable threat to the Liberal Party yet the media seem to be all of a sudden focused on a possible kingmaker role for the Green Party should a minority result present itself.

    I may be out to lunch on this but it seems that the only time the minority subject comes up is when the incumbent party is waning in its popularity and about to get spanked.

    (Response: I think it’s all about numbers: the latest poll shows the NDP may be able to win without any coalition. BUT if the actual vote is different from the polls …like last time … and a coalition of the NDP/Greens could form a government, it would be expected that’s one possibility that would and should be looked at …by not only the partiers, but the pundits as well. h.o)

  34. Sid Evans says:

    You know it really is challenging to my sanity when we have elections I mean where to start first I go absolutely crazy when it comes to Christy Clark and her Liberal party the sleaze and corruption that has been allowed to flourish in the last 15 years with no look  no speak and no hear msm while billions of dollars are racked up in debt in contrast to the media conveniently there to record the RCMP arresting Glen Clark for a building sundeck secondly it frustrates me to no end the way the NDP goes about their business as opposition I mean Sweet Jesus Oppose challenge I know it hard when the main stream media Will hardly cover you but there are many ways to get the message out on how under Christy Clark’s Government has created massive debt staggering incompetence extremely questionable contracts and how they’re giving away our resources and energy to all their big business big donor buddies third thing that drives me nuts the Green party my understanding is they represent environmental care and responsible management of resources unfortunately the leader of the Green party Andrew Weaver support the Liberal party Energy plan which has a terrible environmental policy basically there isn’t one the green party has been hijacked by Mr. Weaver the fourth thing that really gets my blood boiling is public apathy people that either won’t vote and then complain about everything or the ones that don’t take the time to educate themselves on the issues that voting will have an effect on what are the debates do you care about the future your children’s future I do my best I pass along articles and information mostly through the Internet because the msm disgustingly biased however I still read the news watch the newscast and then follow three or four of my favourite blogs mostly because they deliver the most important thing facts amazingly in-depth information better journalism than the actual newspapers and news cast it wasn’t like that 25-30 years ago then that capitalism thingy kind of took over was supposed to make things better something tells me they might be lying.

    (Response: The reality is, despite all and any Liberal flaws, is that history has shown many, many BC voters believe the NDP would be even worse … maybe not in terms of scandals and/or sleaziness …but in terms of radical leftist ideology, overspending, discouraging investment, and extreme environmental stances. This is the theme the Libs are pushing once more in their campaign ads. The question is whether it will work …again …or whether enough voters want change and will throw the Libs out. h.o)

  35. BMCQ says:

    Did – 33

    If you want to hear everything negative about the B.C. Liberals each and every weekday between 5:30 AM and 6:00 PM other than two or three Editorial Comments please tune into CKNDP AM 980 on your Radio Dial.

    The Radio Station once known as CKNW is working for the NDP just about 100% of the time.

    (Edited ..h.o)

    I suppose you are like Hillary Rhodam Clinton and her supporters like CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC, and the rest believing Republican Deplorables are like B.C. Liberal Voters, low information Voters that are easily duped.

    So let me get this straight, the other Blogs are as good as Gold because they vilify the B.C. Liberals and support your ideology?

    Interesting, that is exactly what I have been pointing out on this Blog this whole Election Cycle.

    I suggest you read the response to you from Harvey three times and take an Aspirin.

  36. Hawgwash says:

    BMCQ // Apr 26, 2017 at 8:08 am

    Did – 33

    ???

    Take a break, you are now talking to yourself.

    Harvey has a great blog but sometimes it is like a Monty Python dead parrot routine.

  37. Lew says:

    @ISLAND LOOKOUT:

    I agree with your assessment of Emerson as a good choice to represent BC at this time, despite the issues I have with some of his past political exploits. Can’t go as far as to agree that Christy is smart enough not to stand in his way however. Publicly stating one week that because of his “construction experience” Trump would have a problem doing anything that would raise the cost of U.S. housing, and then the next week calling the folks who have Trump’s ear “greedy” can’t have done much for Emerson’s dealings behind the scenes.

    I also agree with your assessment that the current government is “workin’ overtime”. My quibble is with the “our business” part.

  38. BMCQ says:

    Hawg – 37

    Correction:

    Sid – 33

    Did not see even one episode of Monty.

    Islam Lookout

    In my humble opinion All Politicians at every level and MSM should take caution with their overzealous Rhetoric and Sabre Rattling.

    Now is not the time to “Rambo” over Trade of any kind.

    We need to show maturity, wisdom, and we must show U.S. Trade Representatives that the U.S. and Canada are better off working with other through negotiated agreements rather than Trade Wars.

    Thus may not be easy and we cannot afford to get too aggressive.

  39. BMCQ says:

    Sorry Island Lookout

    I Pad keeps correcting/changing spelling.

  40. Bonnie says:

    An addendum to my comment on #30, Tom Fletcher said Hulk Horgan, not Hulk Hogan. Also, I tried to find the tweet that had the information and I can’t, the person who I think tweeted it, I went back 10 days and could not find it, so I don’t know if the person took it down because it was fake news/alternate facts, but I swear on my life and my families lives that I read what I wrote, I am not lying, but cannot prove it, so I would like to apologize if I passed on some false information from the internet. I will leave Christy my apology on her voicemail. Lesson learned: take screenshots of anything you may repeat that you saw on the internet, and take anything you read ( even when you see official looking proof) on the internet with a grain of salt.

    (Response: No problem. Glad to have your voice added to the conversation. h.o)

  41. Marge says:

    @ Bonnie Here’s a link to the “article” written as journalism by Fletcher. Totally disgusting that all those junk newspapers we get on our doorsteps felt it was okay to insult the leader of the opposition. If this were done to Ms. Clark, there would cries of sexism but not a whimper about this crap. Just disgusting:

    https://www.kamloopsthisweek.com/fletcher-hulk-horgan-hides-health-hole-ndp-platform/

  42. BMCQ says:

    Bonnie – 41

    I suppose that we should always keep in mind that there could be more than one side to any story.

    It looks like the Russians are going to be blamed for the result of any Non-Progressive anywhere in the World from now on.

    Who knows one day there may be even factual real evidence of the Russians being involved but in the meantime CNN and the others will do everything they can to undermine the Election of any Conservative Leaning Politician.

    I wonder if the Russians or “Fake News” will have anything to do with the May 9 B.C. Election result?

    I guess that will depend on the Result!

  43. Lew says:

    @Bonnie:

    I’ve checked the database for anybody named Clark donating $10K to the Green Party. Didn’t happen. Also checked for Rennie as well. Some small donations to the Greens by someone named Lorna Rennie, but nothing from Bob Rennie. He did donate $10K amounts four times to the BC Liberals and much, much more in other denominations, but nothing to the Greens. I suggest it was someone either spoofing or worse with a doctored screen shot. Lots of those types out there on every side.

    Don’t beat yourself up about it. An honest mistake and a lesson learned is my take.

    BTW, if you want to find out who donated what to who, here is a link to the search page at Elections BC. http://contributions.electionsbc.gov.bc.ca/pcs/SA1Search.aspx

  44. e.a.f. says:

    BMCQ, Bonnie is new here. try to go easy on her. My sense is she is honest and expressing her opinion. Some of us here have honestly held opinions but we are shall we say not so different than some attack dogs. Bonnie isn’t like us, she actually seems nice. That isn’t to say you and I aren’t nice but you get the drift.

  45. BMCQ says:

    Lew – 44

    e.a.f. – 45

    I appreciate you both for speaking up and helping to clarify a couple of points for the rest of us regarding the that Bonnie made.

    Personally I even appreciate more the fact that Bonnie herself came back and brought some clarity to her points regarding the Donations.

    (Edited…off topic)

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