Time to End Surgery/Cancer Hospital Delays for Vaccinated British Columbians

Enough is enough. The Covid vaccine-refusers are getting sick and being hospitalized at such high rates, they are now causing delays, pain, suffering and costing the lives of totally innocent vaccinated British Columbians needing cancer, heart surgery or other critical treatments.

Hospital critical care beds/facilities/services in BC are overloaded.


Because the number of unvaccinated Covid-infected victims are now so high, they are placing what could easily have been an avoidable burden on our hospital system: dozens of other patients have had to be airlifted to hospitals miles away from their families … and hundreds are being DELAYED and DENIED badly needed treatments.

This is just not fair!

How many British Columbians are suffering great pain as they await delayed, and delayed again, hip or back surgeries? How many needing heart surgery have died waiting for a hospital bed? How many have lost their lives to cancer because they could not get a hospital bed for the surgery they needed?

Because anti-vaxxers who could have protected themselves … and their fellow citizens … refused to do so.

It’s not only incredibly dumb: it’s very selfish too.

And the anti-vaxxers should not have that power over others.

Time for Premier John Horgan, Health Minister Adrian Dix and BC Health administrators to restore FULL, NORMAL hospital and health care access/services … including surgeries, ICU priority, cancer treatments … to vaccinated people.

And not allow those who had no medically justifiable reason not to be vaccinated, but refused to do so, tie up critical beds, treatment facilities.

At the cost of others’ lives.

It’s THEY who should have to wait, face delays, or be airlifted elsewhere … not the citizens who have done everything right; followed Dr Henry’s Health Orders; self-distanced; bought and wore masks; signed up and lined up … not one but twice … for Covid vaccine shots.

Accommodating the non-maskers, non distancers and non-vaxxers, in the beginning of the pandemic, did not place an inordinate or inexcusable excessive drain on our acute, emergency and critical care Health services system.

We were ALL in this together … as Covid crippled and killed thousands, then hundreds of thousands and now millions across the world.

But then, almost miraculously, science … which has given the world Polio, Measles, Tuberculosis, SARS, Rubella vaccines … came up with the life-saving, well proven and tested Covid vaccines.

Millions of lives worldwide have been saved already; hundreds of millions of peoples have avoided the terrible pain and suffering Covid can inflict; and billions of others are seeking, yearning and appealing for the life-saving vaccines.

Except those BC’s Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth calls “Covidiots”.

Now, as I’ve written before, I respect and support anyone’s RIGHT to REFUSE the vaccine.

But they DO NOT have the RIGHT to make the rest of us sick or kill us by spreading the disease in restaurants, bars, theatres etc. … or because of their stupidity, DENY us or our loved ones major medical care, when it’s needed.

Statistics gathered in EVERY Health Region clearly prove it’s the non-vaccinated who are now overwhelmingly getting sick from Covid … some VERY sick … and often dying terrible, painful, lonely deaths in hospitals.

Too bad, so sad.

However, I shed not a single tear for those who were offered, were urged, were almost begged to protect themselves by getting vaccinated … but refused.

I weep for those who did get vaccinated, are suffering from very painful, highly debilitating life-critical injuries, diseases, cancers or other conditions but are being denied care/treatment because those who would NOT get vaccinated have now taken over so many hospital beds and are overwhelming medical facilities, doctors and staff.

And No, this is NOT the same situation as so many do-gooder pontificators and cliche-spouting media would have us believe: if we deny priority to anti-vaxxers, why not restrict access as well to people who drink, use drugs, or are obese etc.?

Actually, people with these health problems ARE regularly restricted from some treatments/transplants available to others because of the debilitations their conditions present.

Also, if there was a VACCINE that solved/cured ANY of those illnesses, I would agree: don’t let any of them who REFUSED the vaccine cure take priority over others in pain, needing hip surgery or potentially life-saving cancer operations etc.

But the anti-vaxxers are now hurting not only themselves, which is their right, but others as well, which is not!

A recent CTV story outlined how surging hospitalizations of unvaxxed Covid patients has forced delays of hundreds of BC surgeries. https://bc.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-update-b-c-hospitalizations-still-surging-as-hundreds-of-surgeries-delayed-1.5594079

There was also this in The Vancouver Sun: https://vancouversun.com/news/surgeries-being-postponed-delayed-and-adjusted-across-b-c-as-covid-19-pressures-mount.

Health care and hospital facilities have limits, even at the best of times.

Anyone can get Covid, but when 80% or more of those who require hospitalization are UNVACCINATED (for no valid medical reason), let’s keep it real: they are people who have clearly, and many would say, deliberately, exposed themselves AND OTHERS to a deadly virus.

So, when Hospital critical care wards are almost full, it’s those who followed all the rules, are in pain, suffering or facing life-threatening illnesses who should get priority for precious hospital resources … not those who thumbed their noses at masks, deliberately failed to self-distance and refused Covid vaccines.

Harv Oberfeld

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42 Responses to Time to End Surgery/Cancer Hospital Delays for Vaccinated British Columbians

  1. D. M. Johnston says:

    This is a national emergency, a nasty virus that has killed over 5 million world wide and this is extremely conservative as many countries ceased to report accurate death counts.

    Somehow a small percentage of people refuse to be vaccinated and the Covid death count rises. My gorge rises with every announcement of vaccinated people, taking up hospital beds that would have been used for other seriously ill people.

    I have no time for the vaccinated and even less for those actively resisting being vaccinated. In my book, no vaccination, no medicare.

    You post comes at an interesting time as yesterday, my 40 year old neighbour was rushed off by ambulance to emergency because the inability to have needed surgery done. We are not too chatty, but he confided to me, as I helped him move some heavy items (he wasn’t feeling well on Friday) that he needed two separate, yet important surgeries, all being postponed since a year ago, due to covid cases in the hospital. He was supposed to have one surgery 3 weeks ago but postponed. It now seems Sunday morning he collapsed with a high fever as an internal infection has and things don’t look good.

    The NDP do do a lot of blather, but very little else as, Dix, seems to be operating like a one arm paperhanger, trying to deal with the fiasco. The rest in government seem to be 2nd rate actors in a 3rd rate pantomime. Horgan has all but vanished, except for the occasional photo-op.

    The spoiled and unprincipled anti-vax crown has made it all that more dangerous to live in BC and in a national emegancy, the provincial government must and I restate, MUST, take action. They haven’t and the public are now held hostage by Luddites, allowed to be held hostage by a government that does not know what government should do.

    (Response: When there were no vaccines, no one could blame those infected with Covid for tying up hospital beds, staff, services. But now there IS a vaccine available … several highly effective vaccines…. so it’s unfair to see those who refused to get the vaccines getting priority in hospitals …while others die!!! There is NO doubt in my mind that vaccinated people HAVE now died waiting for cancer treatments or surgery because beds were tied up by Covidiots. How is that fair???
    Or excusable??? The media should be demanding statistics from health officials, coroners offices etc to determine how often this is now happening….and go after Horgan/Dix/Bonnie on this new reality. h.o)

    • L Hewson says:

      Agree with most of what you said and would like to add that all Teachers be mandated to have a vaccine or get away from our children, most teachers want a mandate and sooner than later..also hurry up and get the kids vaccinated, and I mean at least 3 to 11, for their safety..
      Our BC government has gone AWOL…

      • G. Barry Stewart says:

        I highly suspect that teachers have a significantly higher % of vaccine compliance than the general population — including the parents of their students and any age 12+ students. Mandating the small number of teachers who aren’t yet vaccinated might be a moot point. Bigger fish to fry elsewhere.

        What I’d love to see is a whole school teaching/admin staff declaring it is 100% doubly-vaxxed, as is the case at my school. On the first day of school, I made sure to tell my class of my COVID vaccine status.

        If the BCTF is not opposed to a vaccine mandate, then surely they wouldn’t be opposed to schools taking on this practice. (Of course, schools also have to worry about support staff, who are part of a different union. “100% COVID vaccinated… except for janitor, Jon Johanson. Come on, man!” 🙂 )

  2. jay says:


    It seems that you don’t want to recognize that the vaccine is still considered experimental.
    The other vaccines you mention, polio, measles etc, have been in use for decades. The efficacy of them is not in dispute because they have been studied for a long time and the long term effects are well known.
    The Covid vaccines were effectively rushed and have been shown to have some serious side effects in certain populations. The long term effects are not known.
    It is for this reason that many don’t want to take it, lack of long term knowledge.
    I would also point out that it is very clear now that vaccinated people can and are transmitting the Covid variants.
    Just today Colin Powell died of covid complications even though he was fully vaxxed.
    The vaccine has also been shown to have a very short effective life span. Which means we will need to take it over and over and there is no data on the cumulative effects over time.
    There is also the matter of natural immunity. Anyone who is naturally immune does not need the vaccine. Yet they fall under the same mandate, no vaccine, no job etc.

    I really have to ask, how far are you willing to go here?
    Unvaxxed are losing their jobs, their rights of free passage and body autonomy and now you want to essentially take away their right to live by denying them healthcare??
    Why not just line them up and shoot them. Problem solved. Make them wear a yellow star to designate them. Put them in ghettos so they aren’t around the rest of society and can die in their own time.
    I am vaccinated, I work in healthcare, I think it is a good idea to get vaxxed but I don’t believe that a persons right to exist should hinge on it.

    (Response: Well, I DO “recognize that the vaccine is still considered experimental” in a clinical sense … but looking at the hundreds of millions of real-time cases now of reduced instances of Covid infection among vaccinated, versus the MUCH higher incidents of Covid among non-vaccinated …worldwide …the results are looking TERRIFIC …better than I had hoped for …almost a miracle drug. The Colin Powell reference is a disgraceful spin: as a paramedic (are you really?) you should know people die, especially old people, with cancer … and no vaccine or pill or miracle herb will stop that. The man was 86, had blood cancer … and even to point out Powell died “even though he was fully vaxxed” is just a really dumb observation for a health care professional, especially a paramedic. h.o)

  3. Rainclouds says:

    Brilliant Harvey,

    I’m far more libertarian than these jerks. Bill them, every bloody idiot who had a chance to get the shot and didn’t, then ended up in the ICU. If the cost takes their house, car, so be it. Oh, and publicize their name and face.

    Or a more gentle method. Set up roadblocks in the dolt clusters, no unvaccinated get out. Like was done between LM and Okanagan in the spring. Big fines and a Police Presence.

    Typical is the newly converted. Didn’t get vaccd then end up in ICU and suddenly see the light. Too Late! Here is your bill, you selfish moron.

    Had enough of simpletons who don’t give a sh#t about their fellow citizens and their pathetic whining about “rights”. No problem, you have the right to treatment, just see the cashier.

    Darwin is a busy man…..

    (Response: I don’t know if the government can bill them …probably not … BUT those who pooh-poohed masks, distancing and vaccines and are now infected should be treated in overflow annexes or be forced to relocate hundreds of miles away from their families … while those who DID obey all the rules, followed all the guidelines including vaccination get the health care/cancer treatments/surgery they deserve … without long and sometime painful or life-threatening delays! h.o)

  4. HARRY LAWSON says:


    What a timely post. So close to home on many fronts for me personally.

    As you know I have been living in a shelter.

    We had a outbreak of covid that was several weeks ago people were tested and isolated accordingly Fraser health has done a great job and extra kudos to the shelter staff for a wonderful job.

    Today as I wait for a cardiac procedure I texted positive for covid I am being isolated in a hotel that has medical staff on site meals ect.

    I honestly don’t think I would have caught covid if everyone was vaccinated, and those who tested positive stayed in .

    Am I scared ? damn rights between my heart and lung issues and procedures delayed .

    Would I have covid if we enforced the quarantine act ?

    (Response: Wishing you the best, Harry! The statistics PROVE people who are unvaccinated are much more susceptible to getting Covid and then endangering/wreaking havoc on the rest of us. Everyone deserves health care … but surely it’s wrong for people who played by and followed all the rules to be kept waiting (even in pain …like hip or back patients) while those who ignored/mocked the rules go to the front of the line! h.o)

  5. L Hewson says:

    For Harvey..for all of us in our 60’s and 70’s who received the polio and all the other vaccines were receiving brand new vaccines, polio was raging through the USA and Canada etc.when all of a sudden the Salk vaccine was available to us..our parents did not say “I would rather my child be crippled for life or die” they signed the form and we all lined up and took the vaccine, wow Polio wiped out in Canada..along with Mumps, Measles and rubella…Grow up stop being so pathetically selfish, stop being such whiney little babies, yes your arm might have an ache for a few hours but suck it up and live..If you are such a selfish baby that you can’t get vaccinated when you do get Vivid stay home, do not go to any hospital, you do not deserve medical treatment, heal yourself…

    (Response: I knew someone with polio …who had to deal with it almost all his life. Not easy! Vaccines are a blessing … some would say a gift from God, when they work and are safe. That’s why they are normally tested for years before being deemed not only effective, but safe. Covid turned out to be such a terrible easily-spread killer virus, several companies expedited the development of a vaccine (no doubt knowing billions of dollars could be made) and various health authorities and governments approved their use on “an emergency basis) relieving manufacturers of liability. Fortunately, they’ve worked incredibly well … saving millions of lives, with very, very few adverse reactions. So although I respect the right of people to refuse taking Covid vaccines, it’s THEY who should suffer any adverse consequences, not those around them or even innocent people they have never met, but have surgeries and treatments postponed or even die before they get the hospitalization they so desperately need. h.o.)

  6. Gilbert says:

    Gibraltar has a vaccination rate of 99% for those 16 years of age and older. I think we can agree that blaming the unvaccinated there for the high number of cases is illogical. Gibraltar has a population of 33,678 and has 5,769 cases. Let’s put this in perspective. It’s 17.12 % of the population. If we apply this percentage to Canada, the result is not 1,684,410 cases but rather 6,538,578 cases!

    Here’s another piece of information that comes from Dr. Zelenko. On December 20th of last year, Israel had a very high number of deaths, far higher than in previous days. Why is this significant? Vaccination in Israel began on December 20th.

    The experimental injections are not effective nor safe. Dr. McCullough notes that the vaccine for the swine flu was suspended after only 25 deaths. Now, however, VAERS records over 15,000 coronavirus deaths in the USA and over 20,000 in the European Union. Of course the argument will be that deaths from the virus would be much greater, but look at the mortality rate for the virus. It’s not so high, and definitely not very high for those who are healthy and under the age of 70,

    The western vaccines have been analyzed under a microscope in laboratories in Spain, Italy, Germany,Sweden and the USA. They all contain metal fragments, toxins and parasites. Dr. Enby says that this is not something that you want to have injected into your body.

    Consider that the largest dealer of vaccines is Bill Gates, a man who has no medical background. He has introduced vaccines to Africa and India that have caused terrible damage. He once said that vaccines were the greatest investment he ever made. He managed to double his fortune!

    The reports that continue to blame all the problems on the unvaccinated remind me of Nazi Germany and the propaganda that blamed the Jews for every disease. Everything there was supposedly done for “Volksgesundheit”, public health. Holocaust survivor Vera Sharav is working hard to make people aware of the dangers of mass vaccination.

    Before the pandemic, a perfectly healthy individual could not be classified as sick. The PCR test is unreliable and undeniably being used to generate high case numbers. The goal is to scare people into getting a vaccine that doesn’t stop infection, doesn’t stop transmission and doesn’t stop people from dying of the virus. In my opinion, that is definitely not an effective vaccine.

    Now we also know that Pfizer lied about the use of aborted fetal cells in its vaccine. They were not only used in the testing stages, but also replicated in the vaccine. The name of the ingredient is MRC-5, which means medical research council cell strain 5. I find it very interesting that Pfizer employees are not required to get the vaccine.

    I said it before, but I’ll repeat it here. The main problem with these experimental injections is heart inflammation, blood clotting and infertility. For all of those who are vaccinated, a D-dimer test will help to determine if you have blood clots (thrombosis) or thrombotic embolisms. For those who do, early detection is important.

    (Response: You can believe “Dr Zelenko” (who you found on the Internet?), I’ll opt for the Centers for Disease Control in the EU, the US and Canada; you can take the advice of “Dr. Enby” (also an Internet star?) , I’ll go with Dr Bonnie Henry; and, you can believe “VAERS” (what is that? Please don’t invest your life savings in their “research”) that seems to suggest no old or sick people simply died from disease, illnesses before Covid, I’ll go with World Health Organization statistics that show how Covid vaccines are SAVING millions of lives. If you believe vaccines are infected with metals, minute traces of parasites etc. that must be avoided completely, you’d better stop drinking well or tap water too!!! As for your Nazi/Jewish comparison to vaccinated/unvaccinated hospitalization stats your ignorance speaks for itself: no comment from me is necessary. Nevertheless I still respect your right or anyone’s right to not get vaccinated: BUT then, if you LOSE your gamble, you should be the one to pay for it, not displacing people in pain from hip, back illnesses or or whose lives are threatened by cancer, kidney, heart problems… who have been waiting for hospital beds/ICU access LONGER than you. h.o)

    • NVG says:

      ‘Let’s put this in perspective.’ – Gilbert

      So why did you choose Gibraltar as a comparison to Canada without mentioning the difference in square kilometres rather than percentages?

      Gibraltar is approximately 7 sq km,
      Canada is approximately 9,984,670 sq km,
      Granville Island is 13.6 sq km,
      Stanley Park 4.05 sq. km
      Downtown Eastside is 3.8 sq km,

  7. Jay says:


    You seem to forget that a person who dies and has covid is a covid death. This was the case for the majority of the pandemic. I personally think that is nonsense.
    And yes I am more than aware of his age and medical statis. Yet news ourlets all over the place still highlight the fact he had covid and died. Seems to me they are trying to push a certain narrative no?

    What you are currently advocating is the active suspension of basic human rights of the unvaxxed.

    (Response: Not at all. Everyone deserves health care: BUT it is extremely unfair that vaxxed people living in pain and already waiting far too long for surgery etc. or those facing life-threatening cancers, kidney or heart diseases etc. are pushed aside … back onto waiting lists … because someone who deliberately refused Covid vaccines is now infected, seriously ill gets priority for a hospital bed. Many people on waiting lists have died waiting for hospital admission!! Just today, Dix said 90% of those now in critical care beds in BC hospitals are UNVAXXED!! The UNVAXXED are the ones who should wait, endure the pain and even face possible death … not those who followed the rules, tried their best to protect themselves and others around them. It’s basic fairness. Can’t even see why/how that should be a debatable concept! h.o)

  8. Jay says:

    Healthcare isn’t about what is fair. It is based on need and supply. It is about triaging patients and providing those in the worst shape the higher care.
    This happens every day. Go to a hospital and watch. Triage nurses sort patients by priority . Like it or not sympathetic covid patients will be higher priority then someone with a bad hip.
    Operations are cancelled or rescheduled all the time due to lack of staff and patients getting bumped. It sucks but we don’t take away peoples rights because of it

  9. Gilbert says:

    Dutch politician Thierry Baudet has informed us that we now have variants that have no spike protein at all. The result is that they can completely evade the vaccines. According to Dr. Yeadon, former Pfizer Vice-President, the vaccines are neither safe nor necessary.

    The most vaccinated region in Ireland, County Waterford, has the highest number of coronavirus cases. The report I’m reading is from September 24th, 2021. According to Dr. McNamara, there does not appear to be any single reason that the county has the highest incident of coronavirus cases in the country.

    The doctors I mention are not simply internet doctors. They are highly regarded doctors who want the public to know the truth. The western vaccines have been analyzed and all of them have metals, toxins and parasites. The Pfizer vaccine has a parasite called trypasonoma cruzi. According to Dr. Malone, the worst vaccine of all appears to be J & J, but they are all bad.

    VAERS means Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System. Though deaths are probably greatly underreported, we have far too many. How many more people have to die before this stops?

    (Response: Clearly we disagree on the vaccine efficacy and safety. That’s ok…I defend your right to refuse it. BUT when 90% of BC’s critical care hospital beds are now occupied by unvaccinated people …most of whom apparently believed what you do … and vaccinated seriously ill people are now dying by having needed cancer treatments and surgeries delayed for lack of beds, I say that’s wrong! Unvaxxed people are not only being proven wrong … they are now responsible for the suffering and deaths of others …and the government has to STOP that. Let the unvaccinated turn to those on the Internet they believed in to take care of them!! And leave our hospitals and medical facilities for those who did everything authorities asked of them …including getting vaxxed. h.o)

    • max avelli says:

      This is complete and utter nonsense, and should be called out — nay, derided — as such.

      Fools and tools should be called out everywhere.

  10. Zoltan says:

    I can remember long before SARS-Cov2 came on the scene, patients were being relegated to gurneys in the hallways of hospitals around Vancouver, waiting for a proper bed and care. The system would triage patients that required urgent care and others that can wait. I suppose if a patient is over weight and has diabetes and smokes then contracts SARS-Cov2, un-vaccinated people will be responsible if they happen to die. Meanwhile, people suffering from adverse events from vaccination are swept under the rug.

    The trip down the rabbit hole could eventually include complete exclusion from society of people that have decide their own fate when it comes to medical care, privacy and freedoms. It would be a crime to be forced to pay into a system in which a citizen taxpayer is excluded from.

    Here is an interesting article from the US National Institutes of Health,


    Increases in COVID-19 are unrelated to levels of vaccination across 68 countries and 2947 counties in the United States

    (Response: No doubt these are very difficult issues. But when 90% of those occupying critical care hospital beds are unvaxxed, the system is clearly not working fairly or equally for those who followed all the rules and requests of health authorities to get vaxxed … and now are being punished for it … and that is wrong. h.o)

  11. G. Barry Stewart says:

    The ABCs of first aid (and medical care in general) are “Airway, Breathing and Circulation.” All other medical needs or emergencies are secondary, if the ABCs are not present. (“Do Not Resuscitate” orders excepted.)

    As such, anyone with airway or breathing problems is going to go to the top of the list — regardless of their complicity in their condition.

    I agree, it’s totally unfair that COVID-minimizers and anti-vaxxers are gambling with the disease and causing grief for others when their gamble come crashing down… but socialized medicine is here for all.

    Mandates, education, vaccine passports, shaming — and having serious COVID happen to a loved one — are all we lean on, in cracking through the resistance to being doubly-vaxxed.

    (Response: I agree ” socialized medicine is here for all”. And yes, if someone can’t breathe, for whatever reason, they deserve priority. But when 90% of al those in critical care beds are unvaxxed, there is no way they all fit into that breathless category. Yes, they’re sick … but so are thousands of others they’ve pushed aside, weith cancers ort heart problems etc. and some of those will die waiting for the bed/hospital care stolen from them by Covidiots who refused to mask up, refused to self distance and refused vaccines. That is simply not fair … and health authorities should do something to give the vaxxed an equal chance to survive! h.o)

  12. Johhny Says Follow The Money, Fool$ says:

    Putin Orders All Workers Home For One Week Amid Record COVID Surge

    “I can’t understand what’s going on,” Putin said. “We have a reliable and efficient vaccine.”

    Apparently Harvey has company in the corner for dunce$.

    (Response: Aren’t we lucky that it’s not the Russian vaccine we get here … and that so many millions of people are now protected by safe, proven vaccines! We should all feel sorry for the unvaxxed now literally piling up in our hospitals … but many, many of them could have avoided their suffering by just getting vaccinated. I think most British Columbians woudl see them as the dunces. h.o)

  13. George William says:


    ?Removed all restrictions
    ?No covid passports
    ?No mask mandates
    ?No social distancing rules
    ?Everything is open
    ?No QR codes required
    ?Norwegian airline companies has no mask requirements when flying within Scandinavia.

    Life is back to normal here.

    (Response: Yes, but only after 561 days of some of the toughest anti-Covid restrictions ever in that country. Don’t forget to mention that … https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/25/world/norway-ends-covid-restrictions.html. Glad to see we’re moving in that direction too …where vaccination rates are high and infection rates are lower. h.o)

  14. peter sweden says:

    Everyone vaccinated, everyone infected, 12 dead so far. Does that mean it’s working?


    Death toll rises to 12 as COVID-19 outbreak continues in B.C. care home | CBC News
    Twelve residents have now died as a result of a COVID-19 outbreak at a care home in Burnaby, B.C., officials say.

    (Response: Millions have been vaccinated. How many thousands more would be dead without vaccines? h.o)

    • peter sweden says:

      So you’re going to ignore the fact that vaccines are failing and breakthrough cases are worsening outcomes. And that’s to say nothing of all the injuries and deaths being caused by this un-test genetic tampering toxin.

      Well, here’s a little suggestion: Why don’t you start publishing the data comparing mortality rates from pre-covid with the last 18 months. Nothing has changed. Except the flu disappeared during that time.

      And I wonder how come you’re so worried about the health care system while remaining silent as large numbers of those professionals are being fired for not submitting to this un-constitutional assault on their bodies (?).

      Eagerly awaiting your pithy, elitist reply.

      (Response: Amazes me how anti-vaxxers deny, ignore, repudiate all the figures from worldwide health agencies, universities, scientific data collators/researchers … but zero in and embrace Internet gibberish from individuals no one has ever heard of pre-Covid and wacko anti-vaccine lobby groups that have never done a stitch of real scientific research, just twist or even invent data to meet their pre-conceived anti-vaccine prejudices. Those worldwide who have now been administered a total of 6.7 Billion Covid vaccine doses clearly have a different point of view than the Covid deniers do. I am so happy to have had the vaccine and am really happy when restaurants etc demand proof of vaccine. Nothing is 100% Covid safe, but restricting access to many public places sure is a great idea. Anyone vaccine-refusers who comes in regular close contact with the public SHOULD be fired: they have no right to infect others, as has been proven they have in so many nursing homes, hospitals etc. h.o)

  15. jay says:

    You keep talking about fairness. Fairness does not matter in a medical system. It is generally first come first serve with a priority being given for higher acuity patients.
    What you are suggesting is a social credit score type system.
    This person got their vaccine…check mark..they now are more important than those that didn’t or couldn’t.
    Lets explore this concept shall we?
    Why should the elderly get priority over the young?
    The elderly as usually unhealthy, have poorer outcomes and use up the majority of healthcare dollars, so why not strip them of their priority?
    If you want fairness then you need to throw away things like transplant lists and triage. Why bother to treat a patient in cardiac arrest when the outcomes are so poor?
    Why treat overdoses when they are going to be repeat offenders?

    A medical system that you are proposing is nothing more then a breath away from becoming a jury of death. Who lives and who dies at some nameless groups whim.

    Not what I want.

  16. jay says:

    Ok you admit the vaccine is experimental and that long term data is not available.
    So how are people “covidiots” because they don’t want an experimental solution put in their body?
    You have no evidence to say that those same people refused to wear a mask or self distance.
    You are painting every person who hasn’t had the vaccine as a radical redneck hell bent on killing everyone around them. This is absolute nonsense. It is hysteria.
    You cannot paint them all with the same brush.
    You paint them all as internet trolls who couldn’t possibly understand the scientific evidence. That is so far from the truth it is laughable.

    Why is the government forcing a vaccine on people who have natural immunity?
    Why is it necessary to remove people from society because they don’t want an experimental treatment?
    Why is the government trying to dictate how many people you can have in your home over a holiday or for dinner?
    Why do you think it is appropriate to deny anyone healthcare?
    I am a student on history and guess what, people had treatments forced on them and were forcibly sterilized just because they were different.
    Why is the government saying we are in a crisis and then firing hundreds of healthcare staff when we are already short staffed?
    You complain about critical care bed availability. Are you gonna argue with a nurse or doctor who chooses not to get vaxxed and then gets fired because of it?
    What gives you that right? are you saying these people with years of medical training are idiots?
    You are acting emotionally and with no real knowledge of how healthcare works.
    You are making the knee jerk reaction and condemning people who are not covidiots but have looked at the info, talked to their doctors and made a decision not to take the vaccine right now.
    I find it amazing that you are advocating the removal of their basic human rights and even going so far as bullying and harassment and threatening their physical well being.
    This is a violation of every human rights code on the books and just goes to show the level of vitriol present and lack of understanding.

    (Response: I never said deny anyone health care: only don’t push aside those who HAVE followed all the Health authorities’ rules and have been vaccinated, but are suffering from painful, life-threatening illnesses to make way for those who refused vaccines. Again, I keep saying (but you can’t seem to absorb) everyone has the right to refuse to wear a mask, distance or not vaccinate … but they DO NOT have the right to place the rest of us at risk. Stay away; keep away; and don’t expect priority in hospitals if you catch the virus. h.o)

  17. john ghun says:

    Fausti’$ Big Lie That Got The Fraud Rolling

    During a March 11, 2020 hearing of the House Oversight and Reform Committee on coronavirus preparedness, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease, put it plainly: “The seasonal flu that we deal with every year has a mortality of 0.1 percent,” he told the congressional panel, whereas coronavirus is “10 times more lethal than the seasonal flu,” per STAT news. [0.1 percent also expressed as .001]

    He also said: “The bottom line: It is going to get worse.” And this: “The stated mortality, overall, of [the coronavirus], when you look at all the data including China, is about 3 percent.”

    That figure of 3 percent, far from reliable, is 30 times greater than the figure given for the seasonal flu. Fauci exaggerated to create a crisis. Simply by implying great lethality for everyone infected by the new COVID virus.

    And it should be noted that CDC has found the flu IFR ranged from 0.1 percent (the figure cited by Fauci) to 0.17 percent [.0017] from 2014 to 2019, because seasonal deaths vary significantly.

    What Fauci said put the country, with the help of big media, into convulsions. It created the foundation for authoritarian contagion controls driving a spike into the lives of people everywhere. Fauci intentionally created the pandemic by creating fear when it wasn’t warranted.

    But every authoritarian the world over loved what he had bequeathed to them.

    (Response: So, Fauci and the other doctors/scientists are overplaying, over-estimating, over-alarming the world about Covid? Tell that to the families of the the 4,938,355 poor souls worldwide who have died from Covid … or those who lost 28,657 so far in Canada from it. But I donlt mind…go ahead and keep your heads in the sand and refuse the vaccine: but then STAY AWAY from those of us who are vaccinated so you don’t spread it to us … and STAY at home when you get terribly ill and are gasping your last breaths, so you don’t tie up 90% of our critical care hospital beds. h.o)

  18. Not Sure says:

    We are all frustrated Harvey. Here is my question. What is the best way to get out of this pandemic.

    1. Do nothing. Let it run its course. Cull the herd.
    2. Live under restrictive lockdown orders, for as long as it takes for covid to run its course.
    3. Mass vaccinations.

    The vast majority believe #3, so how do we reach that point where enough people are vaccinated so we don’t have to listen to the daily numbers 300+ hospitalizations and 100+ in ICU who are taking up limited resources from others who are not immediately in danger but will be if not treated soon.

    Jay is not the only fully vaccinated person who opposes your suggestion. I have a couple of fully vaccinated friends who hate the idea of vaccine passports. Even the Justice Centre for Constitutional Freedoms has concerns. https://www.jccf.ca/the-issue-of-mandatory-vaccines/

    So instead of getting sidetracked by this interesting moral/ethical discussion, I will focus on the hesitant.

    People use anomalies as reasons to be hesitant; for example Gibraltar and Waterford County in Ireland have been mentioned here. Both have seen jumps in cases after successful vaccination campaigns. What about that we are asked. This might help.

    Gibraltar has had over 5500 cases since Jan 2020 as well as 97 deaths but since Feb of 2021 there have be ZERO deaths and while there have been breakthrough cases most have been mild.

    As for Waterford County in Ireland.

    “Despite the increase in cases, Dr McNamara said that, thanks to vaccination, the vast majority of infection were mild and it was only in rare circumstances that serious illness resulted.”

    VAERS (vaccine adverse events reporting system) has also been used to make people hesitant. VAERS an important safeguard in ensuring that new vaccines are produced safely is not reporting that vaccines are causing problems. This article explains how its data base has been misused by people who are against vaccines.

    I am fully vaccinated, not so much because I fear getting covid and what it would do to me personally. I worry more about getting covid and passing it on to someone less healthy than I am. Being fully vaccinated and following all the protocols does not guarantee that I won’t be one of those break through cases. I could still get covid and I could still pass it on. But at least I could live with myself.

    The vast majority of experts are telling us that vaccines are safe and effective. I would add that we have a responsibility to do our part to keep others safe. I don’t know what else I can add to convince people to get vaccinated.

    (Response: Many anti-vaxxers seem to think those who get vaxxed are being deceived, exposing themselves to risk and some even think we’ve been implanted with some sort of tracing system. To the contrary, I believe most people are well-informed enough to understand the dangers of Covid, and trust the HUGE majority of scientists and medical experts who, all around the world have checked, re-checked and found the Covid vaccines we use in Canada EXTREMELY safe and effective in protecting people and even saving lives. It boggles my mind how so many non-vaxxers do their own “research” and although they dismiss the recognized scientific institutes, research organizations and medical societies …they accept, without question, anti-vaccine conclusions, theories and all kinds of kooky propositions from individuals who have little or no official recognition as being experts in vaccines etc. Statistics CLEARLY show the virus spreads much more easily by/among the unvaxxed. I think most people would support a combination of your No. 1 and No 2 ideas… accepting rules, restrictions if if judged really necessary by Health authorities and mass VOLUNTARY vaccinations … not forced on those who don’t want it …AND are willing to pay the price for that: being restricted from public venues where people get close to each other and crowding is likely. But NO anti-vaxxer has the right to endanger the lives of restaurant/bar servers, other dining or theatre customers or wherever crowding is likely. h.o)

  19. Mark Kiemele says:

    Good discussion Harvey and so too the comments, although many are hair-pulling… I am getting a kick these days of the former unvaccinated jumping through hoops and rationalizing why they’re now ready to get jabbed now that they’re being excluded from social affairs and shunned. People! What a strange species when we should all be facing up to a climate crisis that’ll make COVID look like a picnic. I’d love to hear your and others’ takes on personal carbon allowances, but that’s for another day, eh?

    (Response: I’d better not pontificate about personal carbon allowances or charges: I’m flying away on another vacation shortly! But yes, the discussion on this topic has been really widespread and interesting … although I must admit I find it totally puzzling, even amusing, how so many people won’t accept the clinical testing/research/assessment/recommendations of well-known experienced doctors, respected researchers, scientific agencies and Health Authorities worldwide, but DO believe/accept/follow the findings/advice of anti-virus anti-masking people cited on the Internet who I doubt they had ever even heard of before they raised their ideas online. Amazing!! A bit frightening too. ho)

  20. HARRY LAWSON says:


    I have read the responses with interest.

    I have covid it is nasty and scary. I had my shots wore a mask washed my hands used gloves at times and I have it.

    We all think little of a flu shot we all think little of getting our kids shots so smarten up and get the shot.

    I have a mild case and it feels like the worst flu going my lungs and heart are being affected and I could end up in hospital. I hope not.

    If this is mild with the shots have to see without.

    I am very scared.

    (Response: Yes, from what I have heard and read, getting Covid is MUCH worse than catching the flu. But apparently, people who are vaccinated, do much better than those who were not. And because you are vaccinated, followed all the other health rules, you should get priority for critical health care if you ever need it. Get better soon! h.o)(

  21. Gilbert says:

    Iceland’s chief epidemiologist, Dr. Gudnason, says the vaccines have not worked as expected. Despite a high vaccination rate, Iceland has many cases. In Singapore, the vaccination rate is also high, 82%, but the country has recorded its highest numbers of cases yet.

    In some cases, hospitals have many vaccinated patients, but the mainstream media tends to overlook this. It’s also a fact that many who are vaccinated will have problems such as functional neurological disorder, myocarditis, Bell’s Palsy and thrombosis, and these will not be connected to the vaccine nor to the coronavirus.

    A friend of my wife’s classmate died one day after her second dose. One of my friend’s nephews died shortly after vaccination, and my wife has a friend whose nephew also died shortly after vaccination. I’m sure others must also have similar stories.

    The former president of Tanzania, John Magufuli, asked his security forces to test the reliability of the PCR test. They took samples from a goat, sheep and papaya and other sources, gave them human names and ages, and submitted the samples for testing. Many came back positive. He then denounced the testing as a xcam and decided he would not introduce vaccination. He is now dead. The former leaders of Burundi, Eswatini, Ivory Coast and Haiti also opposed vaccination. They are all dead.

    When we look at statistics from the WHO, we should keep in mind that the largest private donor is the Gates Foundation. It accounts for approximately 10% of the budget of the WHO.

    What do many media executive have in common with the pharmaceutical industry? They are largely owned by Blackrock and Vanguard Group, the largest asset managers in the world. The shares of the world’s largest companies are owned by the same investors. Competing brands such as Coke and Pepsi are not really competitors because their shares are owned by the same investors, banks and governments.

    An excellent article that I encourage everyone to read is titled “Top 10 Pandemic Fables”. There is also a documentary at the end. You can read it at markmallett.com.

    (Response: Anyone can accept the analysis of the “former president of Tanzania” over the US CDC, European Union health authority and Canada’s Health authority. Or even go by the coconut seeds at the bottom of the skull cup poured by some Nigerian tribal priest … or priestess (to be politically correct). I do support and protect their right to go with ideas/conclusions/advice from previously widely unknown “experts”. Go ahead. BUT if they have rejected the pleas to get vaccinated, refuse to wear masks or even self distance, and then catch the virus and get terribly ill, they should NOT be able to push aside people who followed all the Health Authority’s directives but need and have been waiting for critical hospital care/surgery for their cancer, painful back/hip injuries or heart conditions. They should pay the price for their stupidity …not those who followed the directives. h.o)

    • max avelli says:

      In case you missed it, Gilbert, Harvey has basically just called you a fool — and a tool.

      Many other social media sites may have banned you by now for the disinformation that you are sowing.


      (Response: It’s not a matter of calling anyone a fool: I’m just appalled that some people are so ready to accept wacko ideas, unscientific conclusions on the Internet from far out theory exponents or people none of us have ever heard of before …yet reject the carefully researched and clinically tested findings and recommendations of recognized medical scientists, research universities, health authorities. It certainly is bizarre! h.o.)

  22. Stu de Baker says:

    Following on Mark Kiemele’s comment, it amuses me that anti-vaxers bitch about needing a vax passport, to enter a bar where they will be asked to prove their age.

    (Response: A very good point. No one complains about showing ID to prove their age to get into a bar …or later in life , to get a senior’s discount (LOL!): but some scream and stamp their feet at producing proof of protection for staff and other customers against a very deadly virus. It’s a nutty over-reaction! h.o)

  23. e.a.f. says:

    It is unfortunate that people who require surgeries/treatments in hospital are unable to get them in a timely manner because hospitals are full of COVID patients, especially ICUs. The issue is how do we deal with it in a country where we are required to provide health care? We are not in triage mode so its first come first serve and those who are on a schedule for surgeries will be pushed back and back and back.

    Some provinces are worse off than others, but given we live in B.C., my suggestion would be, some hospitals not deal with COVID patients and they continue to perform surgeries, provide treatments, etc. If the hospitals designated as COVID hospitals become over whelmed and can not be transferred to other provinces then those hospitals would have to use the triage method.

    On the other hand, just because people are stupid, dumb, careless do we let them die? The unvaccinated maybe all of that, but do they deserve to die because others need a knee or hip replacement? In my opinion, no. As a society we have an obligation to provide health care for all, however, we might want to stop putting people in ICUs if they’re going to die anyhow and save the spaces for those undergoing surgeries who will need ICUs.

    Denying people health care because they are unvaccinated is much like refusing to provide hospital care for drunk drivers, no heart surgeries for over eaters, etc. They caused their own problems. Its not how our country works.

    Yes there are those who are vaccinated and still develop COVID, but those cases are few. If they do develop COVID, they are much more likely to have a positive outcome.

    If most of society is vaccinated and some refuse to be vaccinated perhaps it is time we look at “quarantining” those who do not get vaccinated, if there is no valid reason for them to be unvaccinated. No vaccination, you’re confined to your home. As to the homeless, the press has reported they have a fairly good rate of being vaccinated and those who refuse, well find them a place and keep them there.

    In my opinion part of the problem is we do not have sufficient hospital beds to deal with pandemics or even staff to deal with large scale emergencies. Most of us have family or friends, etc. who spent several days in the E.R. before a bed became available in their local hospital or they were placed in a vacant broom closet or put in a hall way. We might want to give a thought to what our province’s needs are concerning hospitals. The current government has announced some new hospitals will be built and other will have beds added to them, but we still need more staff. What this country lacks is a back up plan in case of unexpected emergencies. we might want to make some serious plans and then act on them.

    What if we had a catastrophic accident in some part of the province and a hundred or more were seriously injured, how would we deal with it? Would there be enough beds and staff? Health care is expensive but the alternative is not pleasant.

    Until this pandemic we were lucky, as were other countries. Now we are all faced with how to accomodate a pandemic and on going health care. If we want both, we will have to open our wallets or have a central supply of a medical staff with portable equipment and hospitals, when we need them. It is doubtful this pandemic will be the last one we see and with climate change, we may also wind up with mass injuries. Lets not forget we live in an earthquake zone. One good shake and where would the medical help come from, especially if some hospitals were impacted.

    (Response: I agree with you when you write;”just because people are stupid, dumb, careless do we let them die? The unvaccinated maybe all of that, but do they deserve to die because others need a knee or hip replacement? In my opinion, no.” However, with critical care hospital beds now FULL in some areas, and 90% of those beds being filled by Covid non-vaxxers, there are vaxxed people actually DYING now waiting for delayed and delayed heart, cancer, kidney treatments/surgeries … not just knee surgeries. That’s wrong! Those poor people suffering had no alternatives: but the anti-vaxxers now suffering did … they could have gotten the shot and saved their own pain and even their lives. They refused …so they should not have the right to now push away others, who have followed all the rules and done their best as asked of them by their doctors. That’s just not fair to people who DID follow the instructions of Health Authorities. h.o.)

    • jay says:

      There are already hospitals who are designated Covid centers. Nanaimo is one of them. As a result patients with covid from all over are coming to nanaimo resulting in no operations due to the allocation of beds and staff being moved.

      The homeless are another matter. Nanaimo has at least 2 social housing centers.
      One has 86 residents and nearly half have covid. The other is nearly the same. They are free to go as they please.

      I am curious why having these people take a covid test every so many days is not an alternative. People who are unvaxxed and not sick or covid positive should not be made a target of bullying, harassment and potential human rights abuses.
      I would also point out that thousands of unvacinated people are crossing the US southern border and going who knows where and there is little to nothing being said or done about it.
      Recent studies have shown quite clearly that the vaccinated are transmitting the covid virus just as much or more than the unvaxxed. So why isn’t everyone going back into lockdown?
      Variants are still infecting and causing serious injury to the vaxxed in countries all around the world.

      This situation is far more complicated then “get a shot”.

  24. Gilbert says:

    I know that I’m in the minority. However, we can all agree that the majority is not always right. I suspect there are many who do not post here because they know they’ll be attacked.

    I’m not against safe vaccines. For example, the vaccines that we have for tetanus, diphtheria and chicken pox are fine. It’s not fair to label everyone who is against the experimental injections an anti-vaxxer. However, this is what the pharmaceutical industry wants.

    There was a study conducted in Luxembourg by the European Forum for Vaccine Association. The goal was to investigate electromagnetism in vaccinated persons. Originally the study was supposed to include 100 vaccinated people and 100 unvaccinated. However, the researchers stopped the study after only studying 30 people in each group. 29 out of 30 vaccinated people could place a metal object like a set of keys or spoon on the injection site and make it stick to their upper arm. With the unvaccinated group, it was 0 out 30. The vaccinated participants were so upset when they learned this that the researchers decided to stop the experiment. They said that they only got the vaccines to keep their job, to travel, etc. They learned that they had been deceived.

    These new vaccines put foreign DNA into our body. The mRNA vaccines do it directly, and the viral vector vaccines use genetically modified DNA extracted from a chimpanzee that is later converted into mRNA. The mRNA is fragile, so it’s coated with lipid nanoparticles. This hides the mRNA from the immune system which normally kills any foreign material injected into the body.

    Lipid nanoparticles can induce allergies and autoimmune diseases. Additionally, they can trigger immune reactions in which the body attacks itself, and they can cause damage to the liver.

    The manufacturers have not disclosed all the ingredients of the vaccines. They are liable from immunity. If their vaccines are so safe, why is this the case?

    Since viruses mutates so frequently, the chance of any coronavirus vaccine working for more than a year is highly unlikely. This is the reason vaccines such as the flu vaccine are changed every year. Last year’s coronavirus vaccine is no more valuable than last year’s milk.

    No long-term safety issues have been done to insure that any of these vaccines don’t cause cancer, seizures, heart disease, autoimmune diseases, Bell’s Palsy and allergies. If people want to be guinea pigs for the pharmaceutical industry, this is their big chance.

    The following are not mere internet doctors:

    Dr. Zelenko (consulted Donald Trump, Benjamin Netanyahu, President Bolsonaro and the Israeli Ministry of Health) (helped many patients to avoid hospitalization with early treatments)
    Dr. Malone (one of the pioneers of the mRNA vaccine)
    Dr. Vanden Bossche ( a vaccine developer)
    Dr. Montagnier (discovered HIV, Nobel Prize winner)
    Dr. Kulldorff (biostatistician and professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School)
    Dr. Yeadon (former Vice-President of Pfizer)
    Dr. Bhakdi (microbiologist and infectious disease expert, former Head of the Institute of Medical Microbiology and Hygiene at the University of Mainz)
    Dr. Ioannidis (doctor and professor of medicine at Stanford University)
    Dr. Bridle (vaccinologist and immunologist at the University of Guelph)
    Dr McCullough (cardiologist, former Vice Chief of Internal Medicine at Baylor University Medical Centre)

    (Response: Never heard of any of them …and I understand what some of them have even said has been twisted, selectively edited, old time-dated etc just to fit the anti-vaxxers’ narrative. So you go ahead and follow their advice ..BUT I hope you will insist you don’t want to tie up a critical care hospital bed and push out someone awaiting critical cancer or heart surgery etc. if you are proven wrong, get Covid and are really hurting… when you could have just had the life-saving vaccine. As for me, I’ll stick with, even though I also watch for independent corroboration, the World Health Organization, Oxford University, the UK, European Health Agency , US CDC, Canada Health Authorities and Dr. Bonnie Henry’s advice and recommendations. h.o)

    • john says:

      Gilbert: just because Harvey hasn’t heard of these doctors, I have . i would believe what they have to say over the WHO (they were wrong from the beginning and actually lied to the public), the US CDC (who change their recommendations weekly). And of course DR. ‘flip-flop’ Fauci seems to be an expert of renown with the US NIAH.

  25. Gilbert says:

    I apologize for a mistake in my earlier post. The participants in the study conducted in Luxembourg had a magnet placed over the injection site. A magnet should not stick to a person. However, for 29 of the 30 vaccinated participants, the magnet stuck to their arm.

  26. G. Barry Stewart says:

    If you haven’t seen this story about a pregnant woman who is in a coma in ICU, I highly recommend it — especially for vaccine hesitant and anti-vax people.

    I commend the husband for bravely telling the family’s story, as it could/should save others from the unnecessary anguish they are going through. I wish them all the best, though at the moment the woman is only at a 10% chance of survival.

    You don’t HAVE to be forced into getting vaccinated. You can simply choose to do it.


    (Response: You can publish, broadcast, televise all kinds of stories about statistics showing how many unvaxxed people are suffering or even dying … spreading it to several members of their families or fellow workers or congregations … most of the anti-vaxxers won’t allow FACTS, gathered by well known Hospital authorities, recognized scientific research institutes etc., change their minds.. but they DO accept, publicize and defend Internet pap from unknown self-appointed “experts”, loonies and gleeful trouble-making trolls. That’s why the Minister of Public Safety called them Covidiots …and I agree. h.o)

  27. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Another thought,

    When we travel quite often depending on region we have to get shots. If one does not one does not travel.

    I think in many ways this vaccine passport is very unfair discriminatory and not well thought out . Restaurants are a great example why is a crowded fast food joint different then another restraunt?

    This does not take away from the fact that the shots are safe and effective.

    We have allowed public health to be politicalized to the detriment of real science, as well as the well being of society as a whole.

    (Response: I believe the reasoning on fast food places was they people don ‘t stay very long … and with their rapid large turnover of customers, it would take longer the check everyone’s passport/ID that they spend getting their food… and the drive thru, curbside lines would go through the roof, disrupting street traffic. h.o)

  28. Gilbert says:

    It sometimes seems much of the world has become communist. We have more censorship, fewer individual freedoms, attacks on religion, vaccine mandates and lockdowns. Dr. Fauci, Dr. Birx, Dr. Gupta, Dr. Reiner and Dr. Tedros are well-known doctors, but who do they serve? They know that if they don’t say what is expected, their careers and big incomes will be in jeopardy.

    It seems no one talks about natural immunity anymore. The danger with the vaccines is that they produce specific antibodies that interfere with the body’s non-specific antibodies. Vaccine-induced immunity is tempoary. Every month protection against the virus decreases. The result is that people become dependent on the vaccine for more antibodies. This is known as antibody enhancement dependence. It’s far better to strengthen our own immune system than to rely on these vaccines whose long-term effects are completely unknown.

    Let me give an analogy. The vaccines disrupt the immune system. If we compare the immune system to an orchestra, the vaccines leave the orchestra without a conductor.

    The vaccines contain recombinant dna. This means that different types of dna have been combined with one another. This is of course unnatural.

    The vaccines have secret ingredients. This is due to trade secrets. How many people would willingly eat or drink something that had secret ingredients?

    Here’s my last point. Many believe really trust the media, the government and the pharmaceutical industry. Are people really sure they would never lie to us?

  29. Not Sure says:


    We have two discussions going on here. The first is on what we should do about the unvaccinated. It is an interesting debate and you and Jay (the two main debaters) have done a good job of defending your positions. Interestingly, I can’t see any place where you disagree on the FACTS. You are discussing a moral/ethical/ legal situation where two reasonable people can have opposing points of view.

    The second discussion is on the effectiveness and safety of vaccines. Now we can get into a debate on whose authority we will listen to. This often happens in court cases where the defense brings in one expert witness and the prosecution rebuts with their expert witness. The poor jury has to decide who and which FACTS are more believable.

    It took me a couple of minutes but I found the Luxembourg magnetic study that Gilbert mentioned.


    If you have the time skim the report. It will only take a couple of minutes to hit the high points. I am not a scientist but a study done in a mall doesn’t sound all that scientific. Nor does the way it is written. Regardless, this is a study that is easy to replicate.

    So I put a magnet at the injection site on my arm. It fell off. I put a key there. It fell off. My wife scorned my attempts to test her because she thought I was nuts.

    I am trying not to dismiss people who fear the vaccine. But there are plenty of articles online debunking the magnetism claim. This doesn’t appear to be a very good reason for remaining unvaccinated.

    Nor is the claim that vaccinated people get covid and can spread it, so what’s the point. The point is that the vaccine is good at preventing covid and very good at reducing hospitalization and death. Getting vaccinated is our best bet.

    (Response: You are probably more aware than most of how I distrust politicians, governments and even bureaucrats. But I do look at the evidence they put forward, the criticisms others offer and then I try to arrive at my own honest conclusion. I do not automatically accept or reject what anyone says purely on a partisan/biased basis. And I concluded, despite concerns/disagreements over distribution methodologies, that the international and American Health authorities, our own federal scientists, Health Authorities, provincial Health Authorities had done the research required before saying certain Covid vaccines were effective and safe. (I did not like/trust Astra Zeneca and said so.) But I get the impression most of the anti-vaxxers had their minds made up right from the start, without really examining the facts: if it comes from government, big Pharma there’s something bad or even malicious built into it. And then they grab onto anything online that supports their pre-determined bias/conclusion. Similar to Trumpsters! And NOTHING any scientific research organization, statistical illness/death analysis findings show will change their minds. Unless they get Covid … and have to be hospitalized. h.o)

  30. e.a.f. says:

    Gilbert, I must disagree with you on your comment regarding the vaccines are experimental. hundreds of millions have now been vaccinated and most of us are still standing. We didn’t get sick, we didn’t catch COVID and most who did, lived.

    The vaccines you mentioned were at one time all “experimental” but people took them because the alternative was serious illness and/or death. When I was a kid, they came out with the polio shots. It was a whole new game, but our parents had us all vaccinated. People knew they had a greater chance of dying or being crippled if they contacted polio and yes, some who got polio shots still got polio, but in the three cases I’m familiar with, there was only minor impacts, one leg being slightly shorter than the other. As to actually having polio, after the shot, frequently doctors thought the kids had something else, they were sick, in bed, high fevers, etc. but after awhile they got better.

    If I got covid I’d have a 25% chance of survival. Even if that shot meant I had a 50% chance of dying, its still better odds.

    Its actually strange, there are all sorts of occupations, that when you start school for you are required to have all sorts of shots, T.B. tests, etc. No one seems to mind, but this time, the way people carry on about dying or becoming ill due to the covid shot is almost similar to a bad case of mass hysteria.

    It is very concerning people don’t want to get the covid shot and keeping walking around and coming into contact with others who can die because of that contact. In my opinion, they ought to be quarantined in their homes, just as people once were during small pox out breaks or scarlet fever.

    Wonder how some of you might feel if you don’t get the shot, get covid, pass it on to some one you care about and they die? Trust me, the emotional baggage on that one, lasts a life time.

    Jay, I’m aware Nanaimo is a COVID hospital for everyone from Duncan to the top of the Island and some from the north are being brought in. One of the Victoria hospitals were designated as a COVID hospital and one left for regular illnesses. The problem with designating the Nanaimo hospital as a covid hospital is Nanaimo has a lot more specialists and surgeons than the hospital in Comox Valley, Campbell River, and Duncan. In my opinion, if the hospitals who deal with covid patients are unable to return to doing surgeries, then the provincial government may want to look at making other hospitals non covid and use them for surgical purposes.

    Nanaimo has continued to operate as a “regular” hospital. The sibling is in and out of there on a fairly regular basis, staying for 4, 5, 3 weeks at a time.

    Not all provinces are in as good a shape as B.C. i.e. Alberta/Sask. We as a nation need to have a good look at how many doctors, R.N.s, L.P.N.s we “produce/educate” and have at least one hospital per province to handle emergencies such as this one. Yes, its expensive, but so is people dying, burn out of staff–who may never return to health care.

    In the middle of this mess we have Life Labs refusing to pay their lab staff the same as those working for the government. Life Labs pays its workers on average 12% less. The workers are now in a position to strike. given how hard nurses and doctors have worked along with care workers due to covid, it makes one wonder what they will be looking for at the bargaining table. Its not like many cared all that much a year down the road with their attacks on medical staff and the picketing at hospitals and schools, etc. People refusing to be vaccinated are creating problems for those who are. It truly is time to insist the unvaccinated are quarrantined in their homes.

    Gilbert you gave me a good laugh with your comment regarding “natural immunity”. You know what “natural immunity” is? Death. there are all sorts of disease which you can get twice. Its why doctors recommend people get booster shots for some rather “ordinary” diseases. We are seeing countries which don’t have the money to vaccinate all their citizens or countries where citizens don’t “believe” in vaccines. They do have a tad higher death rate. If you want to try for “natural immunity” go for it, but please stay home. All the testing in the world is not going to stop people from transmitting covid to others, once they have it. Lets not forget there are all those short people, you know children who can’t be vaccinated yet, they die from covid. So my suggestion is, adults put on your adult underwear and go get your shots.

    In N.B. they had 27 new cases the other day, 22 of them were children under 12.

    We can’t stop giving medical care to the unvaccinated, but we can ensure they don’t spread the disease.

  31. Gilbert says:

    e.a. f., I wonder how anyone can say his/her chance of surviving the coronavirus is 25%. What is this based on? If we look at the information from worldometers, 99.6% of active cases are mild, and of the closed cases, 2% have resulted in death. Let’s not forget that many who die from the coronavirus have underlying conditions, and many die with the coronavirus rather than from the coronavirus. Consider that it only costs about $2 to give ivermectin, but to put a patient on a ventilator in the USA is maybe $30,000. Hospitals can make a lot of money that way!

    The chances of survival from the coronavirus depend on a number of factors. They include the strength of the patient’s immune system, the health and age of the patient, the amount of the virus in the patient’s body, the moment it is detected, the success of treatments, etc. These treatments can include ivermectin, hydroxychoroquine, azithromycin and monclonal antibodies. In any case, I suspect a figure such as 25% is speculation.

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