Keeping it Real…

Keeping it Real… header image 2

TPP Will Reduce US Trade Dependency

January 29th, 2018 · 19 Comments

One of the good things about Canada … and also one of its challenges … is our relatively small manageable population: 37 million.

Yet, over the massive sweep of this magnificent land …. 9.9 Million square kilometres (3.8 Million square miles) … we expect and,  for the most part GET, a more civilized society than the United States, with equal or better living conditions, personal safety, education, generally well-developed infrastructure,  better unemployment insurance, welfare and social and health services superior to that of our neighbours to the south, despite their having a population base and potential economic/industrial base ten times ours.

Exports have substantially helped Canada achieve that generally higher quality of life: first with raw resources and agriculture, but in modern times increasingly with technology, machinery, chemicals, cars, aircraft and intellectual property….to the tune of $390 Billion in 2016.

And NAFTA …like it or not … has been a BIG boost to Canada’s exports … easing access to 477 million consumers … representing one-fourth of the world’s economic output. And exports to the US and Mexico now account for more than 75% of all Canadian exports!

In fact, these are the NAFTA-related trade figures compiled/reported by federal Global Affairs statisticians:

“In 2015, total trilateral merchandise trade, as measured by the total of each country’s imports from its other two NAFTA partners, amounted to over USD $1.0 trillion – more than a threefold increase since 1993. In 2015, NAFTA partners represented 28% of the world’s gross domestic product (GDP) with less than 7% of the world’s population. Since the implementation of NAFTA, the North American economy has expanded, with the combined GDP for Canada, the U.S. and Mexico reaching USD $20.7 trillion in 2015. Canadian merchandise exports to the United States grew at an annualized rate of almost 4.6 percent between 1993 and 2015. Canada’s bilateral merchandise trade with Mexico nearly reached CA$37.8 billion in 2015. Some 78 percent of Canada’s total merchandise exports were destined to our NAFTA partners in 2015. Total merchandise trade between Canada and the United States more than doubled between 1993 and 2015. Trade between Canada and Mexico has increased over 8-fold over the same period.

“Canada-U.S. trade in goods and services in 2015 reached close to CA$881 billion. Canada is the second-largest market for U.S. services exports with Canada-U.S. services trade nearly reaching over CA$122.8 billion in 2015, a 205.1 percent increase since 1993. The United States was the number one destination for Canadian merchandise exports in 2015, and was Canada’s largest supplier of merchandise imports. Canada is the main foreign supplier of energy to United States (Mexico is 4th), and was the largest cumulative source of foreign direct investment (FDI) into the United States.

“Between 1993 and 2015, Mexico-Canada merchandise trade grew 8-fold to almost CA$37.8 billion in 2015, showing an average annual growth rate of 10.1 percent. Services trade between Canada and Mexico has increased six-fold during the NAFTA period, to nearly $3.9 billion in 2015. In 2015, Mexico was Canada’s 3rd largest trade partner and was Canada’s 3rd largest supplier and 5th largest export market for merchandise trade.

“The enhanced economic activity and production in the region have contributed to the creation of jobs for Canadians with one in six jobs in Canada related to exports. With the addition of nearly 5.2 million net new jobs during the period from 1993-2015, Canada’s unemployment rate has decreased from 11.4 percent (1993) to 6.9 percent (2015).”

And Canadian consumers have benefitted too …. with cheaper imports of goods, foods and a much wider selection of many manufactured products.

Armchair socialists, unionists and just plain anti-Americans may not LIKE those facts … or SAY they prefer the artificial competition barriers that protectionism provides … but I’d bet that hasn’t stopped many of them from buying a lot of those cheaper imported American and Mexican goods …even when costlier Canadian alternatives are available.

Now Donald Trump has re-directed America towards more protectionist … even isolationist …  policies that have more support among the US population than many Canadians may believe.  And he could just be in power for another seven years! Wreaking havoc on international trade … impacting Canada negatively and more substantially than many other countries, with more diversified markets.

Canada really has no choice but to reach out and sign on to the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP).

Even without the US, the agreement will open up and ease access for Canadian companies and producers to markets totaling another 450 million people. (In fact, let’s hope the US stays out … while Canadian companies enjoy lower tariffs or even free access to many more countries.)

Of course, there is no doubt some Canadian companies and sectors will be negatively impacted by the new competition. Just as happened under NAFTA.

But for the vast majority of consumers and for Canadian exporters, if the overall impact is even close to what NAFTA has done for Canada, the outcome will do a lot of good for the nation.

And produce huge revenues and growth to not only sustain but even expand our quality of life and social services … keeping us a much better place to call “home” than the United States.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get First Alerts of all new topics on this blog by following @harveyoberfeld  on Twitter. No spam …just First Alerts of new postings. )

Tags: British Columbia · International · National

19 responses so far ↓

  • 1 Gene the Bean // Jan 29, 2018 at 9:16 am

    We have disagreed on this topic before ????

    Fundamentally we are on the same page but the TPP was written by corporatists to benefit corporatists – period.

    The concepts are well and good but it is in the “details” and just like the HST- we pay the freight whilst multi-nationals, big shareholders and CEO’s reap ALL the rewards and WE hold all the risks.

    No thanks.

    The TPP is no different than the IPP scam, it initially looks like a good deal but when you break it all down, it just benefits the 1%ers.

    We can do better.

    (Response: HOW can we do better …given our relatively small population and limited ability by our own consumers to buy enough to keep our companies (and us) rich enough to provide all the services we demand? h.o)

  • 2 Island Lookout // Jan 29, 2018 at 1:23 pm

    TPP, NAFTA–VS TRUDEAU-NOMICS

    Our Prime Minister was babbling away in Davos days ago saying that profits and losses are so yesterday.

    What’s needed, he uttered, is a “values-based” approach to business.

    What in the friggin’ hell does that mean Mr. T? Because he’s our glorious leader he knows but he’s not elaborating. It’s being called “hipster economics” in some (safe) spaces.

    From a chap whose financial wealth has been cossetted in a trust operated by “those in the know” we get that twaddle.

    That and unrelated utterances that I won’t get in to at this time…

    So, Canada is to proceed into TPP which #1 Gene the Bean says is a rip-off and he is CORRECT!!

    Imagine timorous Canadian “heavy-weight” negotiators meeting over lunch with Japanese corporatists in Tokyo only to sadly discover that the Canadians sitting at the table ARE the lunch!

    The TPP will have the following “members” :

    Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, Vietnam.

    I ask this question. What will we need to buy from the swampy dictatorial Kingdom of Brunei? Or, what will that oil-rich kingdom sell us?

    And Peru?

    And Vietnam?

    And Chile?

    Very little back and forth.

    But the heavy-weight is Japan the world’s third largest economy. It will dominate the TPP landscape to a degree that we have yet to contemplate.

    I’ll leave it at that for now.

    MEANWHILE NAFTA

    I think we’re getting a snow-job of BS from our Canadian betters who are butting heads with the Yanks and Mexicans at the NAFTA talks.

    There is only one player in this tripartite “negotiation”, Robert Lighthizer the US Trade Representative.

    This Washington DC trade lawyer, a long-time resident and player in the “Swamp”, is not a man to be discounted.

    Any deal that emerges will favour the Yanks clear and simple. That is the order from Trump: Make America Great Again on our backsides if that’s what it takes. And it will.

    Look back at Lighthizer’s CV and the way he shoved the Japanese and Chinese to the mats in trade talks decades ago. The guy pummelled them.

    This guy is all heavy all the time.

    The folks from Ottawa defending Canada’s honour must wonder what the heck they volunteered for.

    If they haven’t by now, then something’s wrong.

    I predict Trump will cut two bilateral NAFTA-style deals: one with Canada and the other with Mexico.

    Both countries will be offered a deal they “cannot possibly refuse.” And they won’t.

    Meanwhile over at the TPP, Geishas, chop-sticks and sake to dull the senses or whatever.

    Pass the soya sauce.

  • 3 r // Jan 29, 2018 at 2:03 pm

    We cannot rely on US nor can we rely on Asia and the indirect perssure they present.

  • 4 Harry lawson // Jan 29, 2018 at 10:55 pm

    Harvey ,

    Trade deals have been around since nations have traded. My question is at what cost ? Different sectors will profit, some may lose. The market will always adjust.

    However I hate the unnecessary family burden of marketing boards cost each Canadian family over $400 .00 per year

    A concern I have with the TPP is the questions about giving up sovereign rights, I wish the government would release more information so I could make a informed decision.

    (Response: I am really undecided about marketing boards: I realize our smaller population compared to the US …over a larger land mass…makes farming more costly and difficult, so guaranteed share markets can help prevent unfair lowballing an squeezing out many farms. However,, when I am in Florida, I sure enjoy paying only $1.29 cents for a dozen eggs and $2.69 for a gallon of milk…or even less. h.o.)

  • 5 D. M. Johnston // Jan 30, 2018 at 6:36 pm

    As the USA regresses into the era of xenophobia, Jim Crow, and corn pone politics, all trade agreements with the USA will be up for renegotiation.

    This is going to hurt the care free Canadian far more than the evangelical and scared US populace.

    It will not be just trade, but free travel, as the USA shutters it boarders against imaginary enemies.

    NAFTA, the TPP were/are a benefit to major corporations and who can produce a widget cheaper for sale elsewhere.

    TPP is more about Chinese hegemony, than freer trade and TPP will be the weapon that will bring Canada to its knees and change from being a US vassal stat to a Chinese vassal state.

    Of course Trudeau the Younger is oblivious to this and his reconstruct of Canada to his late father’s global philosophy, trumps rational thinking.

    In short, we are damned as the world again slips into the morass of totalitarianism and unchecked corporate greed, which is Fascism

    I do not see a positive end to all this.

    (Response: The US shutting itself off from the outside world is providing a great opportunity for Canada to fill the breach and take advantage of opportunities the US are abandoning. Recently I was in Havana, and amidst the massive dilapidation I saw as a result of isolation by the US, I also noticed OPPORTUNITIES being seized by others: our tour buses were very modern, comfortable …built in CHINA; the tires were Pirellis…from Europe; and, although I did not go to Veradero, I hear there are LOTS of modern, successful resorts…built by Europeans. Canadian companies should look for those same opportunities in places where the US is reducing its presence and profile … and TPP could provide them. h.o.)

  • 6 Rocker Rich // Jan 31, 2018 at 2:47 am

    Our erstwhile PM is on a trade tightrope. The Americans, acting positively dog-in-the-mangerish are peeved we are proceeding with TPP talks. This, despite Dotard Trump yanking his nation out of the deal.

    Then again, Justin is proving a fair weather friend to the TPP…failing to show for a crucial meeting late last year with a lame-o excuse for his absence.

    I’m heartened that he’s taking advice from former PM Mulroney to try and salvage NAFTA. Just hope he’s got a similarly seasoned key advisor for TPP.

    (Response: I just hope Trudeau doesn’t cave to bully Trump on too many issues. Give and take is ok in negotiations .. as long as it is not Canada that does all the giving and the US that takes all. There are NINE MILLION US jobs that depend on Canadian trade … we DO have a good hand to play. h.o.)

  • 7 BMCQ // Jan 31, 2018 at 2:57 pm

    Welcome back Harvey.

    I know I will be criticized for this but I must congratulate you on your Essay and the objective factual analysis of the TPP. You did a lot of research for this one and I for appreciate your time spent.

    Obviously you have done your Homework, you have provided a very good argument to support your thoughts, and your argument in support of TPP is sound.

    My Company is a B.C. Manufacturer and exporter to Asia, Australia, The U.S., Mexico, The UK, the EU, and anywhere else in the Free World that has an Ocean.

    NAFTA has indeed been great for Canada but it has also been good for The U.S. and Mexico as you have pointed out so well.

    I have no confidence in Canadian PM JT representing Canada in the NAFTA talks, especially when he drones on in Juvenile Platitudes about Eh Uh Gender Equity, Uh First Nations Uh People, and the rest. He is beginning to give me the Creeps. How stupid does he think Canadians really are? Well I guess he thinks Really Stupid.

    I am worried about NAFTA and I disagree with your comments about POTUS Trump on that.

    Trump is a negotiator and he is seeking to make the best deal he an for The U.S. and it’s People.

    We need to make him understand that the way things are going with Globalization and Uber Liberal Politics it may soon be The UK, the U.S., Mexico if they can fix things, Australia/New Zealand, Japan and a few others working together against many other Countries with different interests when it comes to trade.

    In the meantime I believe we rushed things too much signing on to the TPP, we should have waited much longer and continued to work with the U.S. and Mexico on a successful NAFTA re-negotiated Deal.

    My feeling at this point is that TPP benefits Exporters to Canada more than it benefits Canada.

    Is there a clause that allows re-negotiation every few years? That would be of great interest to me.

    NAFTA should have been set up that way initially, we may not have found ourselves in the position we are now in.

    Canada IS NOT Dealing from Strength on NAFTA and we need to make the NAFTA renegotiation the most important thing on our Trade Agenda at this moment.

    TPP could have and should have waited.
    I may have missed something but I have not personally seen enough evidence to show that TPP benefits Canada,

    I believe the very reason Canada delayed Signing onto TPP is the fact that our Negotiators did not “Want to Jump the Shark” regarding our NAFTA Negotiations.

    Why they have now all of a sudden signed on is a mystery to me.

    I cannot sign off on this without pointing out that the U.S. NEEDS a Border and the U.S. needs to curb Illegal Migration. We will soon see why when the U.S. begins to Deport Criminal Felons back to their Home Countries.

    FYI D.M., those same Migrant Felons are not going to wait to be Deported back to El Salvador, Mexico, France, Panama, China, they are coming to Canada where YOUR Inept, Disengaged, and Impotent PM JT will welcome them with Open Arms “Because It Is 2018 2019″ and Mayors like Mayor Mumbles Robertson will provide them with Welfare, Housing, Drugs, and the rest and in the end YOU and YOUR Family will pay.

    The U.S. already has about 15 Million Illegal Migrants living in their Country, just think what say 2 Million of those same Illegal Migrants will do to Canada’s Healthcare, Education, Housing, Criminal Justice System, Welfare Rates, Salaries and Wages, and the rest!!

    Let’s see what your opinion about U.S. Border Security is then!!!

    You might notice that when PM Justin, the Pope, De Blasio, Merkel, Lofven, Juncker, Obama, Macron, and the rest of the Uber Liberal Leaders tell you to “Stand as One, Go about your Day as nothing has happened, Live a Normal Life” and the rest they are ALL standing behind Security Guards Armed better than Most Small Countries, they and their Families travel in Armoured Vehicles, Military Planes, and reside each and every one of them in Residences with the Best in Security with Walls that are very high!

    The U.S. ARE NOT shutting themselves out from the rest of the World, U.S. Leadership is doing what is necessary to protect it’s People and they are on the right track.

    Perhaps we should consider one or two things before we criticize the U.S. for wanting to control Illegal Migration!!

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42502984

    http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwja45DOloPZAhVVzmMKHY5_BYwQFgg_MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2017%2F12%2F29%2Fberlin-host-new-years-eve-safe-zones-women-authorities-crack%2F&usg=AOvVaw0leqwzYSeBZ4ZlNV_I3ThS

    http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwja45DOloPZAhVVzmMKHY5_BYwQFgg_MAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2F2017%2F12%2F29%2Fberlin-host-new-years-eve-safe-zones-women-authorities-crack%2F&usg=AOvVaw0leqwzYSeBZ4ZlNV_I3ThS

    No the U.S. is not isolating itself, it is simply doing what ALL EU Nations and former U.S. Governments should have done, ensue that Borders are Secure and at the same time do everything possible to make sure Legal Immigrants are Vetted and getting to Immigrate to the U.S. instead of Illegal Migrants, wherever they happen to be from.

    (Response: I believe Canada’s signing on to TPP will actually make it easier to stand up to …and even force fairer responses in the negotiations with the Americans on NAFTA. It would not surprise me, however, to see Trump try to walk away from Mexico/NAFTA and seek a bilateral deal with Canada … substantially the same as we have now ..with some minor changes to help him save face. h.o)

  • 8 13.. // Jan 31, 2018 at 8:37 pm

    Hi Harvey, very glad your back. I dont pretend to be an expert or for that matter even an interested bystander when it comes to TPP.
    My 2 cents worth. Im always suspect of any trading partners where one has virtually nothing to trade. Also suspect of any country that has the same products to trade as we do. The bigger GDP will have more to lose if the trade deal makes everyone equal.
    Im scared to death of any negotiations where Justin Trudeau is up against anyone smarter than him. (everyone). Ive given up on his advisers and fellow Federal Liberals being of any assistance to our challenged PM.
    PS Ill be voting tomorrow for Ms Watts and reluctantly for Mr Lee as second choice.

    (Response: “Nothing to trade”??? From US government 2016 statistics: “Goods exports to Canada totaled $266.0 billion; goods imports totaled $278.1 billion. The U.S. goods trade deficit with Canada was $12.1 billion in 2016. Trade in services with Canada (exports and imports) totaled an estimated $ 83.7 billion in 2016. Services exports were $54.2 billion; services imports were $ 26.9 billion.” That sure is a LOT of “nothing”. h.o)

  • 9 BMCQ // Jan 31, 2018 at 10:06 pm

    Sometimes all we have are our own opinions.

    You very well could be correct and I hope you are when you say Canada Signing On to TPP May urge the U.S. to a more fair response from the U.S. regarding NAFTA.

    I honestly feel that NAFTA can and does for the most part Work for Canada, Mexico, and the U.S. and I believe the Trump Admin recognizes that but they will push for a better deal for the U.S. keeping in mind that all three Nations are connected Geographically, have many things in common, and transportation between all three countries is easy.

    All three need to work together to settle on a fair NAFTA and they need to ensure a better Dispute Mechanism is put in place so disputes like Softwood can be settled without the threat of Trade Wars. Yes, Softwood should be included in NAFTA and we have heard nothing about that.

    NAFTA needs an Independent Bi Partisan Trade Court similar to a Hague that can be called upon to settle Trade disputes FAIRLY between NAFTA Nations.

    NAFTA also needs a Clause that can be used to review and revisit Trade Deals On Specifics of NAFTA that will assist in making changes and adjustments every Five Years in various Disputes.

  • 10 Island Lookout // Jan 31, 2018 at 10:37 pm

    #7 BMCQ

    BRILLIANT ANALYSIS.

    The only issue I take with your well-researched presentation concerns your worry about illegal immigrants pouring in from the US.

    Canada border security is one task that, so far, our federal government has been pretty hard-core about maintaining.

    A lot of Haitians have crossed illegally mainly into Quebec from the US and are being “processed” for something resembling permanent residency.

    I have not heard too much complaining from the Quebecois so I must assume the feds are listening to the locals.

    Also, remember last year when JT and the Sunshine Band welcomed in Mexicans by issuing them special visas to avoid the US?

    Well, our customs folks apparently showed the would be “immigrants” that we are not pushovers. Many were sent packing, especially the bad guys.

    So, I’m concerned but not terribly worried about the prospect of illegal immigant gangs flooding into Canada from the US.

    For now, I still have confidence in our law enforcement people (except if Trudeau takes up believing in tooth fairies and unicorns and orders them to stand-down).

    Why?

    The federal general election next year.

    Most Canadians are wary of Trudeau and his fanciful ideas on everything from economics, taxation, and political correctness.

    And moreso than our elite betters could ever possibly think, Canadians are deeply aware of what Ottawa’s up to. And they will not be ignored by anyone seeking election or re-election.

    Meantime, we must trust the RCMP, CSIS and border security to protect us from harm.

    As for NAFTA, I also believe Trump will cut a separate deal with Canada, and another one with Mexico.

    Can’t see any other outcomes.

    Our PM will have problems living down that expecially if the US winds up screwing us into the ground. Then there’s the TPP deal, whose effects on us have yet to be felt.

    It’s all just more election cannon-fodder and it’s potent.

  • 11 Rocker Rich // Feb 1, 2018 at 3:15 am

    Re: Your envisioned scenario of Trump offering separate bilateral deals (to Canada and Mexico) or just one (to Canada).

    I hope we wouldn’t toss over our Mexican neighbours for what would likely still be a lousy deal for Canada.

    I know our economy, dollar and standards of living are at risk if NAFTA ends. But dammit, this is so reminiscent of 1930s Germany. But before undesirables start getting rounded up and interned, pretty sure enough Americans—including the minorities-dominated military—will rise up to put Trump and his enablers where they belong…federal penitentiaries.

    Given that potential upheaval, trade deals don’t amount to a row of beans. They can always be renegotiated after the American national nightmare ends. Until then, citizens of all Western nations—but especially Canadians—will have to sacrifice.

  • 12 Rocker Rich // Feb 1, 2018 at 3:38 am

    PS: Lest I be accused of losing the debate by straying into “1930s Germany”, I’m not comparing Trump to later ‘30s A.H. or suggesting liquidation of one or more ethnic groups is at all likely. But certainly, in the first few years of National Socialist rule, other nations ignored ugly situations that they could have intervened to stop.

    Whatever Trump and the GOP do, no other country individually or as an alliance will do anything militarily. But it behooves Canada to work with other nations to attempt an economic end run.

    By doing so, we’ll also further strengthen internal opposition to Trump as ever more Americans realize their own economic prospects globally are diminishing along with their country’s traditional leadership in world affairs.

  • 13 RIsaak // Feb 1, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Welcome back Harvey.

    I’ll reserve my take until we the unwashed get all the details, the current govt. is very adept at not sharing information about their trade deals, and we do not have many facts about TPP yet.

  • 14 BMCQ // Feb 1, 2018 at 12:19 pm

    Lookout – 10

    I hope you are correct and I am wrong about what I see as perhaps up to 1 Million Illegal Migrants crossing our Southern Border over the next few years.

    It has been reported that we have had close to 60,000 Migrants cross over into Canada from the U.S. already.

    Of course Official Numbers are lower but we are
    also well aware about how numbers have been Fudged in the case of every EU Nation that has been overrun with Illegal Migrants.

    https://globalnews.ca/news/3677129/asylum-seeker-numbers-quebec-canada/

    We must also understand that under certain circumstances those same Migrants that claim Refugee Status must get a Full Hearing and that takes time and costs Tax Payers a lot of Money. As we all are aware so-called Due Process is never cheap and that Due Process never does the tax Payer any good!

    http://nationalpost.com/opinion/michael-barutciski-legal-loophole-allows-illegal-migrants-to-claim-refugee-protection

    The Weather is improving and there is a effort to Deport Criminal Felons including MS-13 Gang Members most of which called El Salvador Home back to their Home Nations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS-13

    MS-13 Members from any country will not want to go back and they will come to Canada, we have everything they require, Gullible Federal Leadership Led by someone that really should be given a Whistle and send him to SummerCamp to oversee 12 year olds, Activist Mayors like Mayor Mumbles Robertson, and Provincial Governments like the ones in B.C. and Ontario.

    We will soon find out if I am right or wrong and I certainly hope I am wrong.

    AS I have stated on this Blog previously Canada should be allowing/entering those Immigrant Applicants already in the System ahead of anyone that simply crosses the Border claiming any sort of Status.

    We should also be entering Minority Jewish Families from The EU, the Middle East, and Northern Africa.

    We should also be entering Minority Christians from The Middle East and Northern AFrica along with some Kurds and Yazidis who are ALL persecuted every day in those places mentioned.

    TPP will no doubt offer some opportunities for Importers but I need to be convinced how TPP will benefit Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

    Whatever the outcome Canadian Negotiators need to do their best to Strike a Balance for Importers, Exporters, and Working Canadians who ARE the Tax Payers.

    Far too often we Canadian activist Politicians and Special Interest Groups Agitate for the Latest Flavour of the Month Solution and not pay any attention to the Working and Tax Paying Canadians of any Income Level!!!

    Yes, even Wealthy Canadians need to be considered when making Trade Decisions, contrary to popular belief with some here the Wealthiest 10% pay 80% of the Income Tax and they create Jobs and Work!!

    NOT ALL High Earners/Wealthy are Morally Bankrupt!!

  • 15 Gene the Bean // Feb 1, 2018 at 1:20 pm

    Response to #1 (and I’ll do it in under 10,000 words and without talking about myself) …

    We can do better by not kowtowing to the Corportists and making deals that benefit most Canadians, not just a few.

    We have what others want, let’s deal so we all prosper. If China wants to play hardball, no worries, plenty of other Asian countries to deal with. The USA continues to slide into the sewer, make more deals with the EU.

    Remember, conservatism only works when you are made to feel afraid. The morally bankrupt purposefully do that to steal from you.

    I am not in anyway supporting isolationism for Canada.

    We can do better, much better, than what the TPP offers.

    Problem is the banks, the lobbyists, the ‘movers and shakers’ don’t want us too, because they want it all for themselves.

  • 16 RIsaak // Feb 3, 2018 at 11:43 am

    Further to my comment above (13), I think desperation and conclusions about NAFTA, softwood, Jets, etc. are driving the agenda in Ottawa today. Never is an advantageous deal reached when making reactionary moves based on the actions/inactions of a 3rd party not involved in the current negotiations. Toss in the fact no details have been publicly shared with the populace, this deal and anyone who wishes to endorse or detract from it is only conjecture and all the opinions offered at this point with zero real facts, more than likely wrong. Like a trade of athletes in sports, the real results will only be known in decades to come, and to guess at this time is slightly questionable. Sorry, but talking points from our politicians are mostly spins of their choosing, not anywhere close to factual and comprehensive enough for most critical thought capable people to draw any real conclusions from.

  • 17 13.. // Feb 3, 2018 at 2:47 pm

    @RIssak
    I think your analysis is likely right on. We will need to wait and see. Also consider:
    Trump is a leader whos background is business the art of the deal, and a vision of clarity not clouded by a social conscience or any environmental agreements that arent part of any global accords.

    Trudeau is a drama teacher who has ZERO business acumen. Little or no experience in any real life situations. He is shackled by a compulsion to act like the perfect politically correct, social justice warrior. His vision is clouded by quotas, diversities, environmentalist dreams. He is on one hand pro pipeline while crapping on the city that has without a doubt blazed the trail to a green utopia. Until the diluted bitumen washes up on the shores of English Bay, Jericho, Kits and Ambleside.
    While Im not pro or anti pipeline I am anti hypocrite For every gallon of dilbit (it floats you know) Justin can send BCers free carbon credits.
    . For Trudeau to blather on about the Paris accord while okaying a pipeline to move dilbit from the tar sands to Burnaby and through the First NARROWS and on though ACTIVE pass is pure politics . He is a spineless individual.

    Trump gets it game set and match.

    (Response: One of the problems for Trump … he has MANY … is that even when he quotes figures saying things are improved … no one believes him because he is such a proven and frequent liar his credibility, even amongst MANY Republicans, is almost zero. h.o.)

  • 18 Eldon // Feb 3, 2018 at 6:17 pm

    It makes me satisfied and proud that the Conservatives and Liberals pulled off the Euro and TPP trade deals together. If I’m not mistaken, JT asked for help from the Cons in NAFTA talks too. Very refreshing given the polarization other countries are experiencing.

    (Response: Interesting point. My own observations in Florida this winter is the polarization …even hate … is worse than ever. And most are not even capable of having discussions with those of differing views on politics. Canada is MUCH better in that regard. h.o.)

  • 19 ellbee // Feb 4, 2018 at 10:05 am

    Harvey, in response to your response to #1. How is it that we can ignore the successes of Norway by either saying they are a one off because (a) their population is too small for it to be considered and (b) their success is only because their population is too small. The US is becoming more and more irrelevant each day. We should transition away from all of the US ties that hold us back.

    (Response: Norway is not a great example for Canada to follow: it’s not that their population is small.. 5.3 million…it’s that it is also compacted in a much tinier geographic territory AND it is much close to alternative markets, should it have difficult relations with one or even two of its neighbours. If Trump remains a bully rather than a negotiator, Canada may have to walk away .. but that is something we should take as lightly as you seem to suggest. h.o)

Leave a Comment

CAPTCHA Code is needed.

If you do not enter the CAPTCHA code then your comment will be deleted when you select Submit.

*