Weak, Spineless Politicians Are Creating LAWLESS Society

The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms theoretically bestows the protections of a civilized society on every resident of this country.

It is the modern version of Jean-Jacques Rousseau’s Social Contract theory, best succinctly described, in my view, by an article in the British Library Collection of philosophical writings:

“People could only experience true freedom if they lived in a civil society that ensured the rights and well-being of its citizens. Being part of such a society involved submitting to the general will – a force that transcended individuals and aimed to uphold the common good.”

We used to have that in Canada, in British Columbia and in Vancouver … and over the past 154 years …. despite shortcomings, outright failures and conflicts, Canadians built a pretty successful nation and society based on those principles.

Not bad, even when compared to other nations and societies that have ben around a thousand years longer than we have!

But too many these days are turning to bullying, disruptions and even threats to get THEIR way … and have lost their respect for the rule of law, respect for others and even respect for basic civility.

Why?

Because weak, spineless politicians are LETTING them getting away with it, CATERING to them, and some would say even ENCOURAGING them!

Demonstrations are an absolutely essential part of our rights in a democratic society, but that does not give anyone the right to trample the rights of thousands of other citizens, by blocking their access to roads, bridges, buildings … even hospitals.

But that happened in Vancouver last week, when anti-maskers and anti-vaccine agitators hindered Vancouver General Hospital patients, health workers and even an ambulance … without any consequences for the organizers/perpetrators: https://globalnews.ca/news/8159734/bc-vaccine-hospital-protests/

Where was Mayor Kennedy Stewart? Where were City Hall officials? A mob closes West 12th … right in front of VGH … for hours … and City Hall was in hiding!

Vancouver Police probably feel that, under the current radical left City Council, had they moved in to re-open the street and ambulance/worker access, it’s they who would have felt the wrath from !2th and Cambie!

Protests are also a legitimate means of drawing attention to, expressing dissatisfaction and even interrupting a project or policy … UNLESS or UNTIL the Courts determine the project can proceed.

At Fairy Creek, a band of activists have ignored Court Orders, police instructions and tried to stop logging in an area covered by a Permit/contract originally approved in 2017 by the provincial government and the local First Nations band.

Over the past two years, more than 800 protestors have been arrested … I’m told some of them repeatedly … with little consequences.

BC Courts, like BC politicians, are NOT doing their job … to protect society by enforcing the laws!

So no wonder that in Vancouver last week, another group of 75 activists held a “die in”, lying down in the street at one of Vancouver’s busiest intersections, Broadway and Cambie, at 5 p.m. … rush-hour … for almost two hours.

Thousands of Vancouverites, on their way home after work, had their lives disrupted, east/west bound and north/south bound, … as the police stood by and did nothing until 7 p.m … arresting only the last two who refused repeated orders to leave.

But for most …no consequences!

https://www.straight.com/news/two-people-arrested-at-extinction-rebellion-vancouver-protest-held-in-support-of-fairy-creek.

Again, where was the Mayor? Where were City Officials? Again, no leadership!

As a result, these “actions” are not only increasing in frequency, they are getting bolder.

One anti-pipeline faction even issued what sure sounded to me like a THREAT.

They warned several worldwide Insurance companies if the Trans Canada pipeline is not scrapped they should refrain from issuing policies covering any aspect of the project:

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/09/03/news/climate-groups-warn-trans-mountain-insurers.

How do these un-elected activists, agitators and self-designated dictators get away with it?

Because our political “leaders” …. at federal, provincial and municipal level … are so weak, so intimidated … and in some cases I believe even ideologically supportive of the actions of the anarchists!

Watch and listen how many of them actually CATER to these societal disrupters … who go well beyond their democratic rights to oppose, to protest or to boycott.

And yet, Premier John Horgan, Health Minister Adrian Dix and Public Safety Minister Mike Farnworth expect restaurant, bar, gym owners to impose and enforce the coming Covid Pass requirement???? And deal with the angry, lawless mob THEY have helped create, grow and even encourage with their hands-off approach to actually enforcing so many laws????

Call the cops? And wait a couple of hours for them to show up?

Plus, everyone knows almost NOTHING happens these days to those who do wantonly disrupt the rights of thousands, ignore the laws, spit on Court injunctions and even destroy property and intimidate or assault passersby .

The Social Contract foundation upon which our Western society was built and flourished has been usurped by the Law of Little Consequences.

Time for our timid, frightened “leaders” to stand up for the rule of law; give police the green light to enforce the law … keep roads and bridges open; and, have Prosecutors urge the Courts to do more than just release those convicted of breaking the law(s) and disrupting the lives and rights of thousands of citizens.

The public .. and Rousseau … would no doubt approve.

Harv Oberfeld

(Reminder: You can get free First Alerts to new topics on this Blog by following @harveyoberfeld on Twitter. No spam … just Alerts to all new topics on the Blog.)

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17 Responses to Weak, Spineless Politicians Are Creating LAWLESS Society

  1. HARRY LAWSON says:

    Harvey,

    I was caught up in the protest at the Abbotsford hospital. I went to see Lisa in the care home. Her room was a block away and you could hear the horns.

    There is a seniors home across the street that has at least 5 buildings ,saw many looking out the window looking very distressed.

    The bus stop was blocked ,and or impeded by protesters. I had to physically push a path thru for my self and others . Many cancer patients going home from test. The constant horn honking was deafening

    Saw 2 Abbotsford police officers on foot and a few police cars drive by

    Yet no one thought to keep the transit area unimpeded .

    We are truly lucky that some one didn’t get hurt.

    Shame on them all.

    (Response: The police will not act because our political “leaders” don’t want them to … and would probably condemn and chastise them if they actually enforced the laws … and kept roadways open. you’re right: shame on them all! h.o)

  2. r says:

    Has BC/Canada gone to pot?
    But they were blocking the bike lane?

    (Response: No. The bike lane is on West 10th … and they kept that clear …no doubt knowing blocking that blocking vehicles, doctors, nurses, health staff, patients and visitors is okay … but just stepping into a bike lane WOULD have drawn the WRATH of City Hall and tickets from bylaw inspectors!!! h.o)

  3. D. M. Johnston says:

    Welcome to the new Canada, government by mob rule.

    The real issue is politcal corruption and politcal pandering to their base and letting their base do as they will to maintain politcal power.

    In the municipality where I live, the council is utterly useless, all in the pocket of land speculators and land developers. They remain in power because of our now utterly corrupt electoral system, which those politicians, with lots of backing, can manipulate to their own ends and that is being elected.

    We now almost live in a Soviet style electoral system where “showcase” elections are held every 4 years and the vast majority of candidates offered are as useless as the ones they want to replace.

    Remember this, is Surrey, the present mayor said; “he was an expert and he could build SkyTrain to Langley for $1.65 billion. Yet the cost today is $3.95 billion and fully expected to climb past $4.5 billion.

    Yet he is still in power, no recriminations, nada.

    I am sorry but the law in Canada is only to beat down the poor and nonaligned and for the politcal acolytes of those in power, it has become a lawless society.

  4. e.a.f. says:

    at least we know where you stand on the issue!

    I’ve always been in favour of protest. It is right and proper to do so to object to what you consider an injustice in a democratic society. (yes I remember the anti nuke protests on the Burrard St. bridge back in the day and the demonstrations against the Socreds/Bill Bennett and his “restraint” policies, and the Battle in the Woods.) If we do not protest, there won’t be change. No government/corporations, etc. gives up power willingly.

    Some protests though clearly violate others rights, freedoms, health, right to follow the law, etc. The protests at the hospitals were just disgusting. It is beyond me why the protestors would go to hospitals to impede the health care of people who needed it and cause those in hospital and the staff emotional distress. The protestors could just have easily gone to city hall and protested on the lawns, the court house, etc. Its beyond me why these protestors would want to endanger the health of others, who could die because of their reckless actions.

    No one is forcing the protestors to get vaccinated. They just can’t go into specific places if they aren’t. It is no different than if you have T.B. or Hep C or when we had polio.

    So what is the differance between now and then? Most likely several generations who are all about “me” and feel a sense of “entitlement” regarding almost anything which they think may impact upon them. There has also been a serious deterioration of good manners in our society over the decades. If one ever wanted to see a display of bad manners, these protests were it. The protestors didn’t care about people having to go for cancer treatments, visit patients, staff, etc.

    As to where was the Mayor of Vancouver? He was on the news denouncing the actions of the protestors. Why didn’t the police do more? Who knows but they may have decided it was easier to outwait them as they blocked the streets. Do we want a hand to hand battle between protestors and police? How many police officers would it have taken to disperse the crowd without injuring by standers–tear gas was out of the question as was pepper spray. The law suits would have over burdened the court system.

    The protests at the hospitals were smaller and ought to have been broken up or a corridor created by police for those having business at the hospital to get through. I can remember attending a Dr. Morgentalier speaking engagement back in the day, with the anti choice people protesting outside. It wasn’t pleasant, but the police were there and barricades had been set up so that we, who supported choice could get through to the event. Why this wasn’t done at hospitals is beyond me and that needs to be accounted for. These protestors did not have the right to impede the health care of others.

    Perhaps some of the protestors wanted their 15 seconds of fame or just wanted to riot or felt like connecting with others who shared their views. Don’t know, don’t care. These protests were harmful to the “greater good”, namely those who needed to get into the hospital, the patients, staff, etc.

    What I do find interesting is those who protest vaccines and vaccine passports, when they get COVID, they go to the hospital, use up beds, staff, etc, wind up on ventilators, take up room sometimes for months at a time and tens of thousands of public funds. Gee what ever happened to the “let god decide or their opposition to vaccines, vaccine passports or other efforts to reduce the transmission of COVID.

    (Response: I think the most important point in your comment is “The protestors could just have easily gone to city hall and protested on the lawns, the court house, etc. Its beyond me why these protestors would want to endanger the health of others, who could die because of their reckless actions.” Exactly! I have no objections to protests, demonstrations, even marches. BUT when activists purposely lie down, blocking a major intersection at rush hour … they are deliberately hurting citizens mostly just trying to get home after work .. not just those in cars, trucks, but many of them STANDING in electrically-driven buses that can’t divert to an alternative route. What did these workers ever do to these agitators to deserve this interference in their right to move around the city ??? And the number and frequency of such disruptions are increasing …because nothing happens to the perpetrators! The police should have moved in, made arrests if the pavement-huggers refused to dislodge and carried each of them to paddy wagons and off to jail. And the Courts should also stop pussyfooting around with repeated lawbreakers if convicted and levy REAL fines and/or jail time for disrupting thousands of innocent people’s lives. Of course, none of that will happen without politicians stop making excuses for or accommodating the radicals. h.o)

  5. NVG says:

    Honestly Harvey, you need to move to the North Shore.

    (Response: I go there quite often: they don’t need demonstrators … the traffic delays are bad enough without them! h.o)

  6. Gilbert says:

    While I’m opposed to vaccine passports and don’t support experimental gene therapy, I don’t agree with road closures and blocking access to hospitals. This should not be allowed.

    On the topic of the vaccines, Dr. Yeadon, the former vice-president of Pfizer, says they are unnecessary. How many more deaths will convince people they’re not safe? More people have died from these experimental vaccines than from all previous vaccines in the last 15 years. I think that’s scary. However, protests must always be respectful and cause as little disruption as possible.

    (Response: The right to protests is a critical part of our democracy. But when those involved feel they have the right to just impose THEIR will on everyone else or ignore Court orders or use violence, then they need to be held accountable. But right now, that is not happening: agitators and radical activists are being CATERED TO by weak politicians … and innocent citizens are having their rights compromised or denied as a result. h.o)

  7. RIsaak says:

    Just last year ,my brother passed away. There was a head count at the cemetery, the same day PM Trudeau was marching in a BLM protest back east which was at that time in contravention of gathering size limits. Do as I say, not as I do???

    (Response: Ahh! When politics is involved … rules CAN be broken. h.o.)

  8. e.a.f. says:

    reread your head line. Don’t agree politicians did it, we the voters did it by keeping those politicians in office and/or not voting. These demonstrations were all in a variety of towns, cities, etc. In municipal elections very few people actually vote. If I’m not mistaken in one Vancouver civic election only 30% of the people voted.

    A number of people have commented here regarding the lack of police enforcement of our laws and even more read this article. Perhaps it is time to send cards and letters to the various politicians and police chiefs asking very pointed questions and keep asking until you get the answers you need. It makes one wonder if these politicians made this decision the last time they were all together. These protests went on in any number of cities/towns policed by individual local police departments and the RCMP. Some one needs to answer.

    It might be interesting to see who organized these protests. This was not a “surprise” uprising. Who are these people disrupting our health care, road ways, etc. We know the police aren’t doing it, or if they are, they aren’t sharing. It might be interesting to take pictures of some of these “protests” and compare the pictures to identify some of the more disruptive individuals and ask them why they do it.

    (Response: WE elected those weak, spineless politicians who have allowed the spoiled brat activists and agitators act out their aggressions, their denial of others’ rights … some of them over and over again ,without ANY meaningful consequences. And that goes for the tiny few who even face charges too … and are convicted. We are losing our civility, our respect for democratic exchanges and even any concerns that breaking the laws will actually cost anything! In Vancouver, in BC, in Canada Rousseau’s Social Contract theory has been pushed aside by unruly mobs … who know they can get away with it. h.o.)

  9. Art Smith says:

    Hi Harvey, the politicians like to pretend they have no influence on the police, when it is plain as day, they have almost total control. When protesters showed up at Horgan’s residence, he didn’t like it, and the police were dispatched forthwith, to have them removed. John Tory in Toronto didn’t like a small BBQ joint opening in defiance of his ban, he dispatched 80 or so officers, along with a mounted unit to enforce it, and there are many other instances of the pols being able to have the police do their bidding, so when they say they can’t do such and such, they are lying through their teeth. They pick and choose which laws will be enforced and which laws will be ignored and the police seem to be quite happy with that arrangement as that frees them from responsibility. Also the treatment of the protesters seems to vary with the political agenda of which ever group is protesting, if it is line with the political aims of the politicians it is OK, otherwise the strong arm of the law is in evidence. I doubt there will ever be any change in this, with the feckless lot we are saddled with in this country.

    (Response: I would never sanction police interfering with or breaking up legal protests or demonstrations. But I expect the demonstrators to also respect the police, the law and the public. Blocking people for hours from going to work, to school, or going home is inconsiderate, but in many of the cases we now see …illegal. So why isn’t the law being enforced? Because the police don’t feel they have the support of local politicians to do so! That’s the great shame … politicians talking the talk about respect for the laws, but refusing to do their jobs and backing the police to do theirs! h.o)

  10. Rainclouds says:

    time to push back, on the tiny minority of self righteous lawbreaking self absorbed malcontents hose them off, hit them with pepper spray, and haul em off to jail for the night. Sooo tired of self appointed guardians of whatever issue these idiots have adopted du jour. No issue with respectful dissent. Alternatively these jerks could try voting, or better yet, run for office then see how many people care about their “cause” and tactics.

    (Response: Society is in BIG trouble when it allows small mobs of people, un-elected by the general public, to get away with disrupting, interfering with, sometimes even using violence and … let’s keep it real… trying to blackmail others to get control. There have always been angry, undemocratic types like that … but they never used to get away with increasingly intense and more frequent disruptions of the public and businesses. I blame our weak, spineless … and maybe even co-operating politicians who handcuff the police instead of the culprits! It’s time for the laws to be upheld!! Protests, yes! But criminal protests, NO! h.o)

  11. nonconfidencevote says:

    Kennedy Stewart.
    A Political Science major. Author. Former MP in sleepy Burnaby.
    Decides to dabble in the politically correct minefield that is Vancouver.

    And when people demanded action.
    He’s no where….no where to be seen.
    Surprise surprise.

    The new breed of politicians are like the bureaucrats of today.
    Hide behind voicemail, texts, and when all else fails…. stress leave.

    The police are now “touchy feely” social workers.
    Forced to take endless indoctrination sessions of aboriginal history and rights, Black lives matter history and rights, gay right, trans rights, on and on until they are either paralyzed with paperwork or too busy holding someone’s hand.

    Perhaps a 9.0 earthquake with streets blocked in rubble, out of control fires and looting mobs will wake us “Lotus Eaters” up…… but I doubt it.

    (Response: It’s too bad the media have not awakened to what is happening and started covering the deterioration of our society as a major story … not just in BC, but Canada generally. The lack of respect for fellow citizens, the nastiness, the open defiance of laws and even violence by the idiot fringe is growing … because our politicians/police/prosecutors/judges do nothing about it. The FIRST duty of all those “leaders” is to maintain publc order, keep the population safe and protect OUR freedoms …not be afraid of enforcing the laws so the activists and the agitators and the crazies do the same! h.o)

  12. D. M. Johnston says:

    As to add again to this discussion, a lot of those little power groups, are those who are important to local politicians.

    For almost 40 years, the bicycle lobbyists routinely shut down bridges and roads and local politicians did squat to stop it.

    The first nations can do almost anything they want and the politicians quiver in fright and do nothing.

    Every action protect, including the regular “hire a mob” now can act with impunity because our spineless politicians just do not have the “right stuff’ to deal with it.

    The anti-vaxers are the same and with some politcal support are now having their 15 minutes of fame with protests and violence at politcal rally’s, yet no one is stopping them.

    Remember this if one cares to vote because the question boils down to, do want to live by the rule of law, or by the mob?

    In BC rule by mob is winning, because politicians are in the pocket of the mob.

    (Response: You are correct: it all started with the unannounced, illegal traffic-blocking actions of the cycling activists … and the police HELPED them do it! Not only did they win many concessions (they can drive anywhere without regard to helmet laws, traffic rules and pedestrian safety) but also millions in spending to cater to them. So of course, other activists have followed suit … realizing they have carte blanche to block roads, bridges, buses, thousands of people from going on their way …without any REAL consequences. This will get worse, until our political “leaders” realize it’s their duty to protect the public …not cater to the lawlessness … and let the police do their job, arresting not one or two, but ALL of those deliberately breaking the law…. and the Courts do their job in enforcing the law, not just uttering a Tsk! Tsk! …and sending even repeat offenders on their way. h.o)

  13. frozentundra says:

    Harvey:

    The police are now handcuffed. If they uphold the law, the local media will look for any incidents of somebody being handled not quite properly and make a long story up about police brutality. Even if they arrest people, in most cases, crown prosecutors will not go to the effort to charge them as they know the judge will let them go without a fine or a slap on the wrist.

    As for the protestors: Many of them see that nothing will happen and they will become local celebrities. Several of them are in demand by the News Hour and are on TV everytime a protest is held.

    Lastly, when you were on the beat, did you make sure that both sides of the story were represented? It seems like a lot of the stories that make it onto Global they only talk to one party and neglect to get the views of the otherside. This gives protestors the feeling to ramp up the protests because the news is listening to them. Fairy Creek is a great example and all of the Extinction Rebellion ones are another. And once a group gets a little notoriety, they have to try and top it with their next rally.

    (Response: I worked very hard to get both (or sometimes several) sides of any story …not just because I couldn’t imagine NOT doing that, or at least trying (sometimes of course people refuse interviews, especially if they knew they were on thin ice ) but because my bosses at BCTV wouldn’t stand for anything less! As for the protestors/agitators/anarchists, many are experts at dealing with the police and the media: they start yelling at the top of their lungs they are being hurt, beaten and injured as soon as the police even touch them. Makes great TV! And they get away with it very, very often because, sadly, there have been many recorded cases of cops brutalizing people. The challenge is for the viewer and the media to scrutinize whether the screams are real or staged … but that should NEVER stop police/politicians/Courts from reasonably enforcing the laws and protecting uninvolved people’s rights to go about their business unimpeded, unless they are getting involved themselves. h.o.)

  14. e.a.f. says:

    Interesting item in the news: 11 members of the VPD were injured on the job by “citizens” over the long weekend. the article goes on to inform us that since 2018 violence against VPD officers has increased by 64% .

    So perhaps the politicians and police “brass” may have decided some actions by the VPD and other police forces, just aren’t worth it. WorkSafe B.C. certainly must be kept busy with these types of incidents. When we want the police to maintain order we might want to stop and think of what happens to the police officers. Yes, they’re paid to police and sometimes that includes being spat on hit, knifed, shot, etc. but sometimes people might consider a protest stopping traffic isn’t worth the assaults on the police.

    What it takes to “control”, “break up” these protests can be quite intense and sometimes there is huge blow back from the public. If we go back and have a look at police actions in the past, some one may have decided its not worth it. Dealing with a riot is very different than dealing with these protestors. Rioters, you know like the hockey riots, are usually individuals with no clear agenda besides rioting. Protestors are goal orientated. They have an agenda they’re committed to. they feel “righteous” about their attacks on police.

    Just thought I’d take another view of the situation.

    When police “break up” demonstrations on of the methods use is “kettling”. When they use it, afterwards there are all sorts of complaints, crying, nashing of teeth by “innocent” protestors, politicians apologize, etc. If the police use pepper spray we have the media recording all of it and decrying how “mean” the police were with their uncontrolled actions, for no reason.

    If the police are going to “break up” these , then we as citizens have to accept there will be injuries, etc visited upon the protestors because protestors are not going to give up easily. Now at one time corporations and government applied for injunctions, but we have seen committed protestors simply ignore them, so what is the point? I don’t know how many of us have had to break up fights between adults, but its not easy. You have to be prepared to take punches and trust me they can hurt. If the police use “night sticks” bones get broken, police get sued, politicians are unelected if they sent the police to do it.

    We may have to change our expectations of the police and we may have to insist politicians do their jobs and speak up and out about these protests. they will also need to back up the police if they have to break up protests and we will have to put up with a few injuries on the part of protestors. People today don’t expect to be hit by police, generally speaking so there is no fear when it comes to these protests. I’m not advocating violence to deal with these issues, but if we want the police to stop these demonstrations, we may have to expect it.

    (Response: When police and weak politicians ignore the laws, activists and agitators are just encouraged to escalate their activities. That’s what we are seeing. The right to dissent and protest is important .. BUT no one who is unelected or holding any official position has the right to IMPOSE their will on others or DENY others their liberties. If anyone wants to see what a laissez-faire society looks like, just stroll Vancouver’s Granville Street any time of the day … or the rest of downtown after 7 p.m ! The mess there …. the destruction of Vancouver’s core … is a creation of left-wing extremists now in charge of City Hall, with support and funding from the NDP government in Victoria. h.o.)

  15. Not Sure says:

    I was going to sit this one out but what the hell. Let’s give it a whirl.

    First, I am not going to argue with you. We both agree that protest is a legitimate activity. And for the most part, I don’t like protests that are inconveniencing others even when I am sympathetic to the cause. I get where you are coming from. But

    Rousseau? Wasn’t he the guy whose writings encouraged the “lawlessness” of the French and American Revolutions. Here is another take on Rousseau. “The concept of general will was vague…It could also play into the hands of demagogues claiming to represent the general will and bent on molding society according to their own abstractions.” Think China and how readily they crack down on protesters.

    Lawlessness? 75 people lying down on Cambie Street blocking traffic for a couple of hours compared to some of the protests in major US cities last year, the attack on Congress in January, the yellow jacket protests in France, Hong Kong. Seems pretty chill.

    The purpose of the protest has to be germane to the discussion. And where we stand on the issue is also germane. Let’s consider the anti-vaccine passport protest. I disagree with their position but I am not going to demand they be arrested for being disruptive. Where they failed miserably was targeting hospitals. Not only will they get zero support from governments, they lost any kind of respect from anybody on the other side, maybe their own side as well. As far as I am concerned that is a better outcome than any arrests.

    How about the Fairy Creek protesters blocking traffic at Broadway and Cambie. I understand their position on old growth forest. Sympathetic in fact. But I am not so sure I agree with their tactic. Gilbert made the same comment about the vaccine protests. But here is the rub.

    This is Martin Luther King, maybe the most famous person for using civil disobedience in his letter from the Birmingham jail.

    “I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to ‘order’ than to justice […] who constantly says: ‘I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action.”

    See the problem here. At the time, the Civil Rights movement was not as popular as we now view it. With hindsight we agree that King’s actions and the disruptions that resulted were completely justified. Without hindsight we don’t know if the same applies to the environmental movement. As well, you may point out that King and many of his followers were jailed (after being attacked by dogs and fire hoses), but is that what you would want to see happening today?

    Like I said at the beginning Harvey, I am not going to argue with you. Maybe we do need the police to come in and crack some heads and drag people off to jail and for politicians to gain some strength and grow some spines. I just don’t think it as simple as you are making it sound.

    (Response: There would be no problem or need for any crackdown if only what you say was true! “75 people lying down on Cambie Street blocking traffic for a couple of hours”. Unfortunately, there have been SEVERAL blockages of roads and bridges in Vancouver … with increasing boldness (even in front of a hospital!) and increasing frequency. You might appreciate the damage that it does to innocent people’s lives if you spent a few hours stuck in a vehicle trapped in a vehicle of on a bus ..unable to get to work, to a medical appointment …or hospital! I would never support “crack some heads” : police are quite capable of asking peaceful protestors to move onto the sidewalks and, if they refuse, carrying them off, issuing tickets …and if they refuse to identify themselves, then effecting arrests. It’s only when the protestors become violent that anything approaching similar force is justified. As for comparing Fairy Creek anti-logging activists to black people’s fight for civil rights, (basic human dignity, the right to ride in the front of a bus or eat at a lunch counter and an end to murders/lynchings) … I won’t even dignify that by responding. h.o.)

  16. Not Sure says:

    LOL. I love the way you twist words. I didn’t say it wasn’t disruptive when traffic is delayed. I even said that I didn’t support that tactic. What I was commenting on was your use of “lawlessness”. The protesters were breaking the law but it does not follow that we have become a lawless society.

    And I certainly was not comparing Fairy Creek activists to the Civil Rights movement. I was pointing out King’s frustration at people more concerned about “order than justice”.
    His civil disobedience was justified even though people even supporters criticized the tactics at the time.

    There have already been close to 1000 arrests at Fairy Creek so these people are not afraid of being arrested. But there is not a lot of publicity in the backwoods. Your scenario of the police moving them to the sidewalk, issuing tickets and nudging them to the paddy wagon if necessary is fine if that is how it goes. I am just not sure if that is how it would go. So we have to be careful.

    Honestly Harvey I get your frustration. Like I said I am not arguing with you. But there are nuances here. If I were on a bus being delayed by anti-vaccine protesters I would be infuriated. More so if I was trying to get into a surrounded VGH. But if I was on a similar bus in say Texas and a group of women were lying on the street protesting the anti abortion law, there is a good chance I would get off and join them.

    (Response: The Courts are part of the problem. I wish the media ..esp the print types ..would look up the rap sheets of those arrested and charged at Fairy Creek and other disruptive actions defying Court orders. I suspect there would many “repeats” …and then look at the “punishments’ the Courts handed them: I’d bet little or nothing. Just encourages them to get even bolder . h.o)

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