Way back in the late 70s, I remember being downtown, celebrating the original version of the White Caps (in the North America Soccer League) winning the Soccer Bowl championship.
“White is the colour; soccer is the game … ” thousands sang in unison.
But the truth is neither I … nor I dare say many of those celebrating OUR team … had ever been to a Whitecaps game! And most of us probably haven’t been to one of their Major League Soccer matches either … or bought any Whitecaps paraphernalia (jerseys, hats, jackets) either.
Yet almost none of us want to see the team leave Vancouver … especially to be snapped up by a billionaire American and moved to Las Vegas!
And the campaign to keep the Whitecaps here has taken up by not only their fans (old and new), but the bar and restaurant owners who profited from them, by the local media and, of course, by politicians at every level of government … reading the crowd.
But let’s keep it real.
The Whitecaps are a BUSINESS, with a reported franchise value that now tops $450 million (US) … up from $30 million just years ago.
With every level of government so short of funds they can’t even meet essential service levels (health, education, social services, mental treatment programs, public safety, transit) I don’t think a penny of public funds should be PAID out to the Whitecaps to get them to stay here!
Yes, maybe there can be a deal to award the team a better share of profits from food and beverage sales, parking fees, etc. … but NO taxpayers’ CASH to try and compete with any private buyer who wants to take over/move the franchise!
After all, the team isn’t exactly broke.
This is from AI:
“According to 2025 data from Capology and Statista, Ryan Gould is the highest-paid Vancouver Whitecaps player, earning a guaranteed compensation of roughly \(\$3.675\) million. Other top earners include Andrés Cubas (\(\approx\$1.15\)M), Mathías Laborda (\(\approx\$1.04\)M), and Brian White (\(\approx\$1\)M). The club’s total 2025 payroll is approximately \(\$15.7\) million, positioning them in the middle-to-lower end of MLS spending.”
Middle to lower end???
Are there really people who believe Vancouver and BC taxpayers should shell out corporate welfare to this or ANY privately-owned sports team and their millionaire owners?
They must have FIFA Fever!
That’s the hallucigenic illness that afflicted City, Provincial politicians and convinced them to spend almost A BILLION DOLLARS of public funds (some believe even more!) for Vancouver to host seven FIFA World Cup games.
The BC government says the games will generate a $1.7 Billion boost to the economy.
Really?
Well, why don’t all those companies cashing in on FIFA pick up the costs … instead of once more shaking down the taxpayers ???
And they can use the projected FIFA “surplus” to buy up the Whitecaps … and keep them here!
Harv Oberfeld
Buy Canadian!
(Follow @harveyoberfeld on “X” for FREE First Alerts to new postings on this Blog.)
@ But if the loss is significant then the least we can do is remember that for the next time someone comes up with the idea of hosting a major event.”
****
Ok.
Like the 2010 Winter Olympics?
How many billions did we lose on that?
Expo 86 was the last time BC made money on a “world event”
And it went for almost 6 months.
It was affordable for families.
Different times.
Security wasn’t a billion dollar boondoggle.
Housing and homelessness wasn’t a MAJOR issue.
Politicians balanced budgets.
Have the politicians actually stated how much we are paying for FIFA security?
$500 million? $1 billion?
For the “experience” of a bunch of second rate FIFA games.
Give me a break.
But I expect Federal, Provincial and Municipal politicians and their families to be front and center with First Nations leaders smiling and waving at the little people.
Wave back, with your middle finger.
You paid for it with taxes so you earned the right to protest.
(Response: Well, that would certainly make world news and put Vancouver in the spotlight: if all the local taxpayers, paying about a BILLION to host seven soccer games, waved their middle fingers at FIFA officials who are cashing in for BILLIONS on the games, the souvenirs, the worldwide TV rights etc and our own politicians (who have NO money for promised hospital improvements or seniors homes or mental health facilities) found a BILLION for FIFA and right are there front and centre enjoying the festivities. Ho)
Harvey, your final sentence to Keith sums it up beautifully.
Politicians have no sense of priority or common sense, unless it deals with their possible reelection.
Another perfect example, if I may. The Vancouver parks board changed their minds and will now spend the 2 million on the fireworks this summer, because well, people would die without them.
(Response: The Vancouver Parks Board continues to defy logic: they approved spending $2 million in public funds on a single one-night Fireworks outlay, but cancelled the three-day Celebration of Lights Festival that only cost the city $1.6 million, because Honda picked up the balance, drew 1.3 million people and generated an estimated $265 million in spending (again, why didn’t those businesses raking it in pay the total cost???). I don’t get it. Ho)
Not an economist, definitely not an expert on this topic, but there is a big difference between using public funds to subsidize a team to keep it from moving and spending public funds to host a special event like FIFA. I am not advocating for either but the difference is significant.
From google, “Glendale, Arizona, spent hundreds of millions of dollars in various forms of subsidies, arena management fees, and direct payments to the NHL and later to ownership groups to keep the Coyotes in Arizona.”
That’s crazy, especially now that the team is in Utah. It’s a cautionary tale for politicians trying to keep sports teams in any city.
FIFA is different. As Keith explained, if a team like the Whitecaps are in Vancouver people will spend money to go to the game and the pubs and restaurants nearby. If the Whitecaps leave, people will still spend the money, just on another activity and pub. One business gains at the expense of another so government gains are not that significant.
With FIFA, thousands of out of town people from around the world will be coming to Vancouver and likely staying several days spending a whack of money in hotels and restaurants and tourist attractions and maybe visiting Victoria and other communities in BC. This is money that would have been spent another country. And there is the multiplier effect of people returning because of the experience, or telling others.
Somebody who knows how to crunch numbers would be able to give us a pretty good ballpark figure. This is how much we spent. This is how much extra tax revenue we gained in hotel taxes and transit riders and sales taxes at restaurants etc etc. Even add in the new infrastructure that was built. If revenue exceeds expenses, great. If it is a small loss chalk it up to free tourist advertising and a good time for the people in Vancouver. But if the loss is significant then the least we can do is remember that for the next time someone comes up with the idea of hosting a major event.
Crunchers gonna crunch and spinners gonna spin, so do we ever get an honest answer?
(Response: Actually, you kind of make my point when you write “thousands of out of town people from around the world will be coming to Vancouver and likely staying several days spending a whack of money in hotels and restaurants and tourist attractions and maybe visiting Victoria and other communities in BC.” Well, let those hotels, bars, restaurants and tourist attractions pick up the cost! Why should struggling families, seniors, neighbourhood businesses pay the BILLION DOLLAR cost …so hotels, bars, restaurants etc can cash in BIG TIME … and with inflated prices too? And I hope no one believes the taxes these businesses pay will cover anywhere near the FIFA cost! As for the red herring argument that many will love the city so much, they’ll come back… that may work with cruises and conventions, but soccer fans are different. Those who travel to see “their” teams play will continue to do that, go where their teams play … not come back to Vancouver just because they admire the scenery. Ho)
Very much agree with Nonconfidencevote and Not Sures comments can’t add anything to those excellent points.
One of the aspects of keeping the team in Vancouver is the boost to the local economy hotels restaurants etc – which gets trotted out predictably ad nauseum by some gushing commentator whenever some event happens which is correct, however. More than one economist including Moshe Lander ( who among other aspects specializes in sports $ ) says the economic boost is minimal at best. In and around the event money gets sloshed around, but if the money is part of the the standard income of a local fan doing the spending, all that is occurring is that money doesn’t get spent somewhere else in the B.C. economy. Taking from Peter to pay Paul, either way the government still gets the taxes on wherever that money is spent.
If the money spent is from the away teams travelling fans then sure it’s a plus, but 17 home games a year plus playoffs, with an average attendance of 24,000 and change ( which is in the upper levels of the league) how many of the away teams fans make the trip? Flogging merch. to the fans can’t be much if an income generator for the ‘caps or the local or national economy, unless the merch. is 100% sourced and made in Canada. How much money is dropped into the local economy by a full cruise ship with visitors bringing in money from outside of Canada in comparison. ?
No, the government shouldn’t hand out any public money to keep the Whitecaps in Vancouver and if they did it wouldn’t make any difference to their abysmal polling numbers and just exacerbates the race to the bottom. If the ‘caps can’t generate the foundations to remain here, and I don’t think they are that enthused to stay given the reported money to be made elsewhere and vague non committal statements we are hearing then see ya later. Sure, it’s a choker for the fans if they go but it is a business and they are part of it.
(Response: Whenever politicians try to convince taxpayers that spending hundreds of millions of dollars on major “entertainment/sports” undertakings, they always point to the great benefits to the economy, especially for hotels, restaurants, bars, tourist attractions etc. Well, then THEY should pay the costs of holding them … not ordinary citizens from near and far who not only can’t even afford/get tickets but already can hardly pay their rents, mortgages, groceries. It just boggles my mind that BC has a BILLION DOLLARS to put on 7 FIFA games … but has no money to complete the badly-needed promised hospital expansion in Burnaby, or fund critically-short long-term care and mental health beds. Ho)
It’s Big Business.
Fans? Loyalty? Tradition?
Please.
None of these players could care less who they play for as long as they get paid big bucks.
And the endless veiled threats from these “big businesses” to leave….
So be it.
In my 45 years in Vancouver I have noticed that the here fans ride the band wagon when teams are winning and jump off when they are losing.
So players slough off with no real repercussions
Try that in Montreal, Boston, New York where the fans are rabid and demand the players pick up their game when they see them out at restaurants and bars.
Fan peer pressure as it were.
Then we toss in the new female leagues starting up everywhere.
Im not a sports fan.
I never understood why a barely literate sports “hero” deserves 5, 10, 50 million dollars a year to play a “game” that is…basically….entertainment.
It is revolting..
Especially when we have problems hiring doctors and nurses.
The real heroes.
Let the White Caps leave.
I couldnt care less.
(Response: as I write this response, I am watching the Montréal Canadiens playoff hockey game on TV. I admire sports and athletes, since I was never good at any of it… not even bowling! So I appreciate what they can do and enjoy watching many different sports. But, on a professional level, it’s a business , sometimes with huge salaries and sponsors/advertisers, tv contracts and even endorsements … so I think it’s a bit “rich” (Ooooh!) for any of them to seek public subsidies … or threaten to leave. But I worry that politicians, seeking votes, may hand out public funds to support private sports teams owned by millionaire investors .Ho)
I agree 100%.
The politicians will spray tax payer dollars with zero PERSONAL financial repercussions to gain popular votes..
I hear Montreal is kicking Butt!
3rd Round contenders?
(Response: Not exactly kicking butt … Series tied 1-1 , but I’m hopeful! As for politicians, if they were only as careful with taxpayers’ money as they are with their own compensation/expenses/benefits! Ho)
I am still not convinced that the governments (city or provincial) will do anything super outrageous so I am conserving energy for something else to get enraged about, but this is definitely an interesting topic. And because I am curious…
Googled: “Are there any professional sports teams owned by local governments?” No. But the Green Bay Packers of the NFL are a non-profit since 1923. There are over 500,000 shareholders owning over 5 million shares. No dividends are paid out. In 2025 the Packers made a profit of $87M and all of that was invested back into the team and the community. Shares cannot be traded or sold for profit. Their charter says that the team can’t be sold or moved.
The NFL now has a rule that doesn’t allow this ownership structure but Green Bay was grandfathered through. Does the MLS have such a rule and are there enough Whitecaps fans to buy shares that are of no value beyond – “hey I own part of a professional sports and can vote on certain things at shareholder meetings”
My next google: What professional sports teams are subsidized? Lots. Mostly through the building of stadiums. But often those are done after a referendum. If Sim and Kahlon are considering a new stadium is a referendum required?
And lastly, there is a debate about the cost benefits of subsidizing infrastructure for a sports team. In the long run does a city come out ahead financially by subsidizing the construction of say a new soccer stadium rather than letting the Whitecaps walk away. The answer is more complicated than my brain can handle but most economists think the answer is no. But then there are the intangibles. In our small town, the museum, library, civic centre, parks etc are all subsidized by the city. We know they couldn’t function without tax dollars. But the city is a better place having them. Is a city a better place having a professional sports team that the citizens can rally around. I would say yes but only to a limited degree.
Anyway, I have no emotional attachment to Vancouver or the Whitecaps or their decisions, but I liked looking this stuff up so thanks for that.
(Response: the big difference, as you point out, is the Green Bay Packers are a nonprofit organization, while the whitecaps are a privately owned corporation worth $450 million… Not exactly in my view a candidate for public welfare. In addition, the Packers draw more than 77,000 fans to each game; the whitecaps about 24,000.
However, you are correct: there are many cities that hand out public funds to private sports companies … but that doesn’t make it right.
I can recall a story I did when the Vancouver Canucks were looking for some sort of public subsidy for their arena deal and I attended a press conference where Brian Burke pointed out that Atlanta’s hockey team were getting some great financial deal from the city for an arena for their hockey team. The sports reporters attending asked nice questions , like how that would help the team etc. However, I asked him what the crime rate was in Atlanta? Burke wanted to know what that had to do with the issue of assistance to the Canucks in Vancouver, so I replied “Well, maybe Vancouver would rather spend its public funds on social assistance programs etc while the American cities preferred to spend it on sports teams and arenas?” The Canucks big boss was not amused! 😁 Ho)
Is this a story Harvey? It doesn’t appear that the government has any interest in buying or subsidizing the Whitecaps outside of giving them some break on stadium and concession revenue so I don’t think we have to worry too much about this. Either local owners have to step up or the team moves.
But it is an interesting story because sports teams sometimes fail. For example the two favourites to be in this year’s Stanley Cup final are the Colorado Avalanche (formerly the Quebec Nordiques) and the Carolina Hurricanes (formerly the Hartford Whalers). And we wouldn’t have the Calgary Flames if it weren’t for the failing Atlanta Flames or a second coming of the Winnipeg Jets if it weren’t for the failings of the Atlanta Thrashers. Two failings in Atlanta and Atlanta is still thought of as a possibility of a future expansion team, certainly ahead of Quebec City. And the first Winnipeg Jets team ended up moving to Arizona where it spent about 20 years costing the city of Glendale millions before moving to Utah.
Baseball is just as bad. The Philadelphia Athletics, an original American League team, became the Kansas Athletics and then the Oakland Athletics and now just the Athletics who are playing in some minor league park near Sacramento for the next three years until a stadium is built in Las Vegas.
It is sad when a sports team can’t make it in a particular city for the fans especially but also for some businesses who make extra money because the team exists, but not all businesses survive and governments can only do so much. (eg. helping auto workers or steel and aluminum companies or the softwood lumber industry.)
And just something to consider. Two years ago Shohei Ohtani signed a ten year 700M contract with the Los Angeles Dodgers. In those two years, it is estimated that the Dodgers have already recouped that $700M through licensing deals especially in Japan. And Shohei who deferred 680 of the $700M until 2034 makes a measly $100M a year on endorsements.
(Response: Yes, it is a story, because there have been hints that politicians … especially those in trouble politically or seeking re-election … may be amenable to handing out public dollars to keep the Whitecaps here. Mayor Ken Sims has stated “losing the Whitecaps is not an option”. Not an option? At what cost? And then there is Ravi Kahlon, a big Whitecaps fan and season ticket holder, who I also hear has thoughts about running for NDP leader when Eby realizes he has no future in the job. Kahlon has already announced he’s “talking” with a new group of investors who might be available to buy the team. I would not be surprised to see Kahlon (or maybe even Eby?) announce a provincial contribution towards building a new soccer stadium on the PNE lands. Better to sound the alarm now: I could understand better sharing of parking and concession revenues …but NO public cash funds to subsidize a private sports team worth upwards of $400 million! Ho)
Remember the Vancouver Millionaires team in BC?
and the whitecaps song?
Even Seattle couldnt keep the NBA Supersonics like BC Grizzlies.
(Response: If governments hand out public bucks to the Whitecaps to have them stay here, I’m sure the Canucks, Lions and baseball Canadians will also look for public handouts to meet their multi-million dollar needs. Ho)
Football, er I mean soccer is, in my book, is somewhat over rated, as most professional sports are. the only people making money are the owners, yet politicians fall over themselves spending the taxpayer’s money supporting them.
I played rugby (and never earned a nickle) until I was 57 and carried off the pitch for the last time and I go and watch both school teams play and my son who is in Div.1. It’s free and there is lot more excitement than watching a ball being kicked up and down the field.
Each to his own, but enough subsidizing professional teams with taxpayer’s money, god knows the hospitals need it.
(Response: Glad to see the Whitecaps doing well and I can sympathize with their attempts to get a bigger share of parking fees and concession revenues … but not a dime in public cash to keep them here! That’s a deep hole that would only get deeper! Ho)
I am in total agreement on this one Harvey. Vancouver just doesn’t have enough fans to cover the associated expenses associated with some professional sports teams. Remember the Grizzlies?
In addition to the millionaire owners we can add the players of the NFL, NBA, FIFA, NHL etc. who now command exorbitant salaries.
Two weeks ago my wife and I thought of taking in a Vancouver Canadians ball game at Nat Bailey stadium just for something new and different to do. I checked the ticket prices for an afternoon game. $48.00 per person, plus taxes. I didn’t check the costs of parking, not to mention the concession stands. The initial costs were already over $100.00 so I’m guessing a final tally would have been around $125.00, at least.
Sorry to sound like a cheapskate, and no offence to the Vancouver Canadians, but no thanks. We’re retired and certainly not millionaires.
I wonder if they are subsidised by the Blue Jays organisation? (I cannot recall their name)
(Response; You’re not a cheapskate: just an ordinary citizen who doesn’t get corporate gifts of tickets to games or make a huge salary that allows you to spend a small fortune to attend a game (or concert!) these days after paying your taxes, rent or mortgage, Hydro, groceries, cable, Internet, phone, clothing, car, gas, ICBC or transit pass! Even McDonald’s is now costly if you have a couple of kids. So the idea of politicians at any level spending taxpayers’ dollars to bribe professional sports teams (businesses) to stay is not acceptable at this time in this economy. What the teams should do is make tickets cheaper …to sell a lot more, get more fans in all those empty seats, increase parking and concession revenues and even sell more team regalia etc. Ho)
I’m not a soccer fan, but they need money …how about asking the Natives !!
(Response: Hmm! I wonder if under Eby and DRIPA, the Squamish or Musqueam Bands could soon end up as BC Place landlords! Ho)
My grandfather was born in New Westminster in 1875, my father on Texada Island in 1912, and I in Alert Bay in 1944.
BC natives, of Irish decent.
Surely you don’t expect me to foot the bill, do you?
(Response: They shouldn’t … but keep your chequebook handy and read my response to Not Sure: they just might! Maybe, given your deep roots and tax contribution, they’ll invite you to the ribbon cutting … not to actually cut it, (the Mayor and the Premier or a Cabinet Minister will do that) but to watch some FN chief give the new stadium an Indigenous name no one will be able to spell … or pronounce HO)